big night of looting, the first sight of the curfew was tuesday. we've had tuesday, wednesday and thursday nights of the curfew. there have been a few minor skirmishes around the imposition of the curfew. but so far, we have not seen significant clashes and people have been obeying the curfew and going home. it remains to be seen if that will happen again tonight. as we've heard all day, the mood in the city has been among the protesters largely celebratory. innocent until proven guilty, but the fact that there have been criminal indictments has given people hope that there would be some sort of accountability for mr. gray's death. that does it for us tonight, but our live coverage continues with lawrence o'donnell. >> good evening, rachel. we're going to get into the details of the investigation now. >> thanks. >> thanks, rachel. it is now 23 seconds after the curfew has officially begun in baltimore. it's in effect for the fourth consecutive night. the curfew comes at the end of the day when the death of

freddie gray became a murder case. >> well, each of these officers are presumed innocent until proven guilty, we have brought the following charges. officer cesar goodson is being charged with second degree depraved heart murder. involuntary man slaughter. second degree negligent assault. man slaughter by vehicle by means of gross negligence. man slaughter by vehicle by means of criminal negligence. misconduct in office for failure to secure a prisoner. failure to render aid -- >> state's attorney marilyn mosby found probable cause to charge all six police officers involved in the arrest and transport of freddie gray with man slaughter and assault charges. all six have turned themselves in and all six have posted bond. their preliminary hearing is scheduled for may 27th. we're joined now from baltimore by nbc's ron allen.

ron is once again on the street as the curfew takes effect. ron, is there a different feeling there tonight? >> yeah. there's a very different feeling. it's been celebratory and now we seem to have more of a confrontation going pop there's helicopters circling above. they are trying to clear this intersection. you can see that there's some people out there in the middle of the street who are on the vehicle, celebrating, partying. there's also a national guard vehicle over there, a little bit to the right trying to get through the intersection. and there are some people who are blocking it and that's not all. over in this direction over here, you can see there's a line of police in riot gear and behind them there are even more reinforcements. they are holding their positions now. they're not moving forward. but every night this week, since the curfew has been in effect, we seem to take that formation and move slowly forward to clear this intersection out.

we talked to these young people earlier and they said that they're -- some say they're going to stay. again, you can hear in the background perhaps people on bull horns trying to tell people to go home, go home, try and make this a peaceful situation. unclear exactly how it's all going to turn out. the positive things we see, there is traffic moving through. it had been moving through throughout the night. but now as the curfew has hit, things have tightened up. they've told us, as well, with the media, to move from this area over here where they set up a sort of tent, a cordoned off area because last night as we were telling you, the media, all the people with cameras and bloggers and everybody else, we were in the way. so now they're trying to move us out of the way. you can hear some of the officers starting to pound their shields with their sticks. i thought they were. they might be moving forward. it sounds like they're going to move forward to try and clear this out. the bottom line, though, lawrence, is that there is going to be a curfew. there's going to be a curfew for

the weekend city officials are saying. despite what's happened here today, all the feelings of vindication in this community because the officers were indicted, there is now a tense situation. and the hope, of course, is that this will resolve itself peacefully. but, again, the heart of the problem, there are people who have a lot of energy, a lot of whatever, a lot of passion. they're blocking a national guard vehicle and trying to get through. and that's not a good thing. that's where we are right now. there are helicopters overhead. it's being broadcasted, it's 10:00, pooem please go home. it's illegal to be out here. but, again, this is what happened on previous nights and things escalated and de-escalated. hopefully that will happen again tonight. >> thanks for that report, ron allen. we are joined now by msnbc's joy

reid. ron's point that we've seen this before, we've seen et get tense around 10:00. so frequently around 10:20. but by 10:45 every night, it's been pretty clear that everything is calm and people have gone home. >> yeah. and it's important to note, this is a huge crowd. congressman elijah cummings and state senator pugh came into the midst of the crowd with a bull horn, had people link arms and led two quarters to three quarters of the crowd away down pennsylvania avenue. so they led this march that essentially removed most of the crowd from this square. so now we're just dealing with the people who decided that they were going to stick it out and defy the curfew. we've heard a lot of people today saying the curfew was unfair, particularly in light of how jubilant and how joyful the

crowds were here today. there was nothing -- there were people taking pictures with members of the state police department in all of their gear, taking pictures near the big humv humvees. so the atmosphere was so positive that i think it struck a lot of people as unfair or inexplicable that we were going to have the curfew. now you have this last group, they've gotten off the vehicle that they were on top of. but the tension, as you said, lawrence, usually happens around now. 20 minutes in, 25 minutes into the curfew. you have some people who are making a statement, quite frankly, about what they see as their right to be in the streets of their own neighborhood. police have been taking a low key approach to the way they deal with these crowds. i would not be surprised if after the positive sort of day we've had that they continue that low key approach. but the one big change as ron put is that last night, that whole big show of force was a lot about the media, about us, and about them want to go separate media from nonmedia. they wanted to be able to know

who was who. so now they have put the media behind this yellow police tape and they have ordered all of us to stay over here so they know who are nonmedia people and they can television them. so i think what you're going to see now is the police perhaps maybe make a show of trying to get people to clear this square. but the atmosphere isn't even tense at this point. it is ann a little intense, but i don't think i would describe it as a tense atmosphere yet, lawrence. >> thanks for that report, joy reid. we will come back to you as needed. it looks like it's developing the way it has developed on the previous evenings. that means maybe a half an hour from now, that police will be empty, just the media and police by that time. we will keep an eye on it. we have learned more today about the officers involved in this case. the officer who is facing the most severe charges, officer goodson jr., he's the one facing second degree depraved heart murder. that carries a potential sentence of 30 years.

he's charged with man slaughter. that's considered a lesser included charge. man slaughter by vehicle. he was the driver of the vehicle, and misconduct in office. ceasar goodson's grandfather was a police officer. a neighborhood told t"the baltimore sun", goodson spends a lot of time with his family and kids. he's helped me with my car a few times. i could never say anything negative about him. a police officer who did not want to be named told the "baltimore sun" he's not confrontational. he's not known as being a heavy handed guy. one of the officers facing the least amount of charges is 25-year-old william porter. he grew up on the other side of town as freddie gray. he still lives with his parents. near loyola university in maryland. porter met the police van and helped cesar goodson check on freddie gray. that's all he did.

gwendolyn madden lived across the street from him for years. she told ""the baltimore sun"" i know him pretty well. i remember when he first started with the police force when he was in his brown uniform. i was proud of him because he was doing good, she said. he loved the job but he got caught up with the wrong officers. he's too young. he's learning as he goes. but this is going to be a very learnable experience. this is the scene of city hall you're seeing now on our screen. this is not something we've seen at city hall before post curfew. this seems to be a student demonstration that is being controlled, you could say, by the police or attempted to be controlled. they may have made one arrest already, it looks like. when they have been making these arrests, they do it as quickly as they can. they move as quickly as they can.

and they take the arrested person off the scene as fast as possible. so these movements by police when they do this are -- this week in baltimore have been very quick so that they get control as fast as possible and certainly when they make a move like that, every -- everyone who wants to avoid arrest, officer, immediately retreats. we're now joined by phone at the scene there at city hall by patrick chung, nbc's patrick chung. patrick, what's happening? i guess we don't have patrick chung. patrick, can you hear me? we have a pretty good shot of what's happening here, so if we can't get patrick, i think we've got a pretty good idea what this is. it looks like there's one arrest, we have a shot on the right side of the screen, as i

look at it. that person is being taken away. the rest of area seems to be returning to calm immediately. this -- we've seen maneuvers like this before this week where the police just -- in instances like this, see some conduct that they will not abide. we usually don't get a very clear view of exactly what it was that precipitates this kind of move by police on the arrest. but as soon as they start moving, obviously, our cameras picked them up. but this seems to be an isolated arrest as far as our cameras can tell of one perpendicular. that seems to have changed everything in that location. and there seems to be, as of now, possibly no other confrontations going on unless we're seeing something develop right there on that camera that we have on the right, that helicopter shot. maybe one more arrest going on.

you can see people moving away from the police there on that screen. the -- not clear. that looks like they may have one other person in custody right now. images are so dark, they're very difficult to tell. but this is not a major event. this is basically bringing some discipline to the scene as fast as they can. there's a person being arrested. as you can see, this is not -- this is not any longer anything even contentious. the person is obviously cooperating completely with the police in this situation. everyone involved is calm. they're talking to him. he's responding. the -- i think we can see that white plastic hand cuff on him on one side there. but this is obviously something that's completely under control

and they aren't rushing off to grab a bunch of other people. so he -- yeah. he's handcuffed and he's being taken into custody and we're now going to try to be joined by phone by patrick chung, nbc's patrick chung on the scene of city hall. patrick, what can you see there? >> hi. hi, lawrence. well, obviously, there's a lot of police here at city hall. they are really enforcing the curfew here. you have several students -- two females, young students, i believe. young adults here. police in riot gear arresting them as we speak. there's like a huge line of -- i can barely hear you, but there's a huge line of police officers in their gear with their shields up and starting to arrest people

that are violating this curfew. >> okay. i want to bring in neal franklin, a former maryland state police officer and a former training commander for the baltimore police department. neal, it seems that what we're seeing there at city hall is one arrest. there's only one that we can tell by video. and it just looks to me as if the police were ready to deliver the message, at least at city hall, the curfew is still in force. do not take any of the events of today to mean that anything has changed about this curfew. >> yeah. and that's something that the police have to do. if the policies have been set, if the laws have been set, then obviously thoef they have to enforce them. as long as it is in effect, the police have to take that action.

if they don't, there's no respect for the curfew or the law. >> we're seeing a second person under arrest now. very peaceable arrest that is going on here. this is not any big struggle going on. it looks like the police made a tactical decision, which we could not see, we had no video of what they were doing at that point to get arrested. certainly the police have not previously decided that simply being on the streets at 10:10 was going to get you arrested under this curfew. they were allowing a grace period. they were allowing very large crowds to dissipate over time in other parts of town. it's hard for us to know how big the crowd was there. it doesn't look very big. but clearly, they wanted to send a message for whatever it was that these people were doing that even just ten minutes into the curfew they weren't going to allow whatever that was.

>> yeah. as long as it apps appears that the people are complying with the curfew, even if it's just a few minutes after, if the people are moving away from the area, getting into their cars, if they have cars, you know, walking towards a residential area where they may live, moving away from, for instance, the sight of pennsylvania/north avenue where a lot of the demonstrating has been taking place over the past few days, as long as people appear to be, you know, moving away, even though it's a few minutes after, then i think the police are going to allow that to happen, giving that grace period. but if you're demonstrating that you're not going to comply, that you're being noncompliant, then they're going to move in and take action. if you're standing there in front of the police line, just defying the order, they're going to come in and make the arrest. >> we see one of the people being arrested, at least one of them being put into one of those vans that was used to transport

freddie gray. it is one of those white ford vans that has now become distressingly familiar with and we're going to keep a camera on that as we discuss what develops today in this case. i was just talking about some of what we've learned about these officers, cesar goodson's background, ta his neighbors are very shocked at this. the youngest person arrested, 25-year-old william porter, an officer who is the same age as freddie gray, lived across town from him, his neighbors are very fond of him, very positive things to say about him. they're very surprised about this. one neighbor who has known him since he was about 10 saying he was a good, humble kid, have never seen him in trouble. those aren't surprising reactions, i don't think, for who these people -- at least some of these people are and who they've been as neighbors. >> no. not surprised at all to hear

these wonderful reports. and, again, like the state's attorney said, they're innocent until proven guilty. no judgment has been made. that occur necessary a court of law when they had their trial. so there's been no rush to judgment. what we have here, you know, the police are citizens first. when probable cause exist toes make an arrest, you're going to have an arrest, just like it would be with an average citizen, you know? and you can have charges placed while the investigation is ongoing. this is repeating in any criminal investigation. there's an opportunity here and i'm troubled that the fop missed an opportunity to message to the community that, yes, we support our police officers and their families. yes, we want to come together and partner with the community on this. and yes, you know, we want to get it right, too. but unfortunately, the to be has come out with their statement.

it is irritating and, you know, it is irritating at a time when we need balm for healing and unity in not just baltimore but across this country. so i'm rather disappointed with their position on this. >> i just want to clarify for the audience, fop being the fraternal order of police which is, in effect, the union in baltimore representing police officers. and the -- one of the things that happens today in all of this was that we started to see the different degrees of complicity of the officers, neal, in relation to the various charges. some of them charged with man slaughter. all of them charged with man slaughter except i think two as i see it here who were charged with assault, only assault in the second degree. but this kind of charging is

routine for everyone except police officers. i don't know of a case where i've seen this kind of swift charging of police officers, which in effect in prosecutorial terms treated them as if they weren't police officers, meaning there was no special treatment. >> absolutely. and i think that's what we're seeing. and that's what we should be seeing across the country. police officers should be held to a higher standard of professionalism. they should be held to a higher standard, in my opinion, than the average citizen, because we've had the training. you know, we've taken an oath to uphold the constitution and protect the rights of all citizens, not just certain groups of people, but all citizens. you know, we've taken an oath and our training, you know, teaches us that when we take someone into custody, they are our responsibility. their health and safety and well being belonged to us while we have them in custody.

and in this case, there's evidence that clearly indicates that there's been some neglect there. and that's what you see marilyn mosby acting upon, that information that she has in front of her which constitutes probable cause for the charges that she has filed against these officers. >> and, you know, franklin, you served as the training commander for the baltimore police department. did you train any of the officers who were arrested today? >> no. from what i could tell, all officers involved in this particular case, the six came on the department after 2004, which was my last year with the department as the head of training. >> we're going to just hold it right there. we're going to go to ron allen who is near the cvs up there on the other side of town from where city hall was, where the arrest occurred. what happened there, ron? >> well, there's a big presence

of police now who have appeared on the streets. you can probably see them down there in the distance there. they've blocked off this avenue as they have on previous nights in the last five minutes. and a question, if you look over in this direction, the intersection is now cleared. there was a group of protesters who made their way out of the intersection down that way. now, coming this way, it looks like they're coming this way again. and this is sort of similar to what happened last night where a lot of people with cameras and media were in the streets and the cops moved forward. now you can hear them moving forward. slowly, steadily, step by step. they're moving a few feet ahead at the time, but the bottom line is they wanted people out of this intersection. they're doing it with as much restraint as they possibly can, i think they would say. and, again, the message is clear, they want people out of the intersection.

so out of the streets and they want people to go home. so here we are. here we are again. >> thanks for that report, ron allen. we will -- >> it's all happening very methodically. >> now all of a sudden something has people agitated. something has people excited. i don't know what it is exactly. but something has people agitated and excited and running this way. oh, you can hear -- perhaps you can hear the officers banging their shields with their batons. as they keep moving forward slowly, slowly, slowly. and there are some heavy vehicles behind them, reinforcements. they're going to kind of move right through here today, tonight. so we're going back into this staging area they set up where they want us to be out of the street, out of the way. they're not coming up on the curb. the bottom line is we're back in this staging area. >> all right. all right. >> okay.

. >> they've stopped. >> i want to go back to neal franklin. neal, at north and pennsylvania they're executing a very similar move to what they did last night. where they took control of the intersection and in so doing just by making those moves the people who were there who were not supposed to be there, the curfew violators, all pretty much disappeared by about 10:40. and if the pattern holds tonight, we will be seeing more of these pictures that you never know, they could turn into something at any second, but if the pattern holds as it has previously in the week we're going to see some curfew violators sprinting away and it will be a dramatic shot for a few seconds and won't amount to anything. so we will keep an eye on it. i don't want to take anything for granted about it.

but it seems to me this -- these moves they're executing are what they're trained to do in this situation and the banging of the batons on the shields, that is a warning sign that they've been trained to give, isn't it? >> yes, it is. it is a warning sign. it pretty much indicates that we're ready to do business and as you indicated, by them reacting very quickly to making the arrest that they need to make from those who are noncompliant, others will not have the opportunity, you know, to -- for it to turn into anything more than that. it's when you wait and when you allow the defiance to continue and grow that it becomes problematic. they have enough boots on the ground. they're doing it strategically and they're ready to send a message. just go ahead and comply, go home, you can come back out tomorrow and protest as much as you want peacefully. >> we're joined now by jayne

miller, investigative reporter for pvla in baltimore. jayne is at city hall. it looked like the police were going to make a couple of examples of a couple of arrests down there and hope that that settles things down. has -- is city hall now under control? >> yeah. there was a real skirmish here a couple of minutes ago. i'm just going to step over here because the -- they brought one of the police wagons in. and i think they just brought a bigger van in because they definitely got in a skirmish with -- this is the last element of a protest group that was very large at one point during the late afternoon. they had been around downtown. they were up town, they came back downtown and then they wound up back here at city hall. i don't know, it's probably a couple hundred people. most of them had left, but there was still a group of 50 or 60 people that did not move out right at 10:00.

police warned them and warned them. now a couple of them have been taken into custody, but now the plaza is clear. it's a nice spring evening in baltimore. we had a big major development today. ordinarily on a friday night in baltimore downtown this would be busy with people out for the night, going to the bars, going to the -- you know, having a great time. and instead, it's a police state. so i think there's some frustration of the limitation of what you can do once 10:00 arrives. >> jayne, i want to get to the developments of the day in the investigation. i said last night yet yesterday was the biggest day of the investigation so far. based on a couple of things, based on leaked material and based on your own reporting, we had developed more information yesterday than we had at any

point. and then comes today, which surprised everyone as we were all prepared to learn nothing more suddenly and this is way more than just a report from police. we have the prosecutor actually charging all six officers involved. >> you know what, lawrence? i've got to run. i've got to run. i'll try to come back to you, but i've got to run because i have to go over here and see what has happened here. >> all right. you'll be back. neal franklin, we're -- about these charges today, it was an extremely aggressive set of charges. i've got to say, i've seen prosecutors do this before, but i've never seen them do it with police where they literally go right into the letter of the law and they have charged each one of these officers with every possible charge, including false imprisonment. and that's the thing that strikes me the most. the prosecutor concluded that there was no probable cause for

arresting freddie gray because the probable cause was resting on the idea that he had a switch blade. they found out that he did not have a switch blade and so that meant to the prosecutor there was no probable cause to arrest him and that meant arresting him and holding him was false im privilegement. >> right. >> that is the indicator to me in these charges that this prosecutor really threw the book at them. >> yeah. and this has been a xlamt clear across this country when we had these cases involving police officers. that we haven't been treating them like average citizens when it comes to clear violations of the law marilyn mosby has decided to do just what citizens across this country have been asking for for quite a while. now, when it comes to this particular charge of false

imprisonment, these police officers know. they had been trained to know what probable cause is to justify a legal arrest. they had a reasonable idea to pursue mr. gray and to stop to further an investigation. but then when they discovered the knife on him, they should have known that it wasn't an illegal knife. they should have known that it wasn't a switch blade as it was earlier reported by the fraternal order of police attorney. they should have known that it wasn't a spring loaded knife and that it was legal according to maryland law. but they decided to arrest him and to take him into custody anyway and that's the reason for the charges. i mean, that's probable cause for her charging them, marilyn mosby charging them with that particular charge of false im

privilegement, clear. >> i want to bring in doug gansler, a former attorney general of maryland and a former assistant u.s. attorney with prosecutorial experience. doulg, you were on the program the other night. and you felt that there, at that point, because of the switch blade, that there was probable cause for arresting freddie gray. if there was no switch blade, does that probable cause disappear 12347. >> maybe. clearly from what we do know at this point, this is a man that was known to the police. he had ten convictions, two pending cases, was in a high drug area. there was reason there to chase him and stop him. not to arrest him. and then when they do stop him, was it resisting arrest, what was in his pockets? we don't know because we haven't heard from any of the police

officers at this point. we have heard from the prosecutor. she has charged these officers for a number of things. it does seem like she threw the book at them. they haven't been indicted even by a grand jury at this point. and then the last words echoed by your show will be spoken by a jury if it should be a convicti conviction. but clearly not all the facts have come out. people were rejoip joycing in the streets of baltimore. it would be a court of law down the road and who knows what we'll see happen there. >> we're watching one more arrest take place now and, once again, someone is being put in the back of one of those vans, exactly like the van that freddie gray was put in. and doug gansler, talk about obviously this one is on television. they were watching. talk about what it means in police procedures going forward. the effect on the street of these arrests for the conducted

description by the prosecutor today, which sounds to me in many cases like routine conduct in putting people in these vans and whether or not they need help. >> so you're seeing it on national television right now, so it does happen every day. >> doug, doug, what i meant was on one of these officers is charged with looking at him in the van and helping him get back into his seat, but not putting the seat belt on. and then very importantly, not getting him medical help even though he asked for it. now, police officers not getting people medical help when they ask for it from the back of those vans, that happens every day, every day in america. >> i think they're going to get medical help. but in this particular case,

it's unclear. we've only heard half baked facts and rumored innuendo. but apparently he was asking for medical help because of an asthma condition. that is sort of not the really necessarily underlying charge for the in voluntavoluntary man slaughter. the second degree charge was the one that i think is the most sort of unusual in this particular case because that -- we don't have to have premeditation deliberation like you would for a first degree murder, but you do have to have the intent to commit crimes that the reasonable person would know might end up with somebody dying. and that is going to be, you know, interesting to see how that plays out during the course of the prosecution. involuntary man slaughter, what that means is -- >> doug, can i stop you on the second degree? >> sure. >> that is the most dramatic ching in this. second degree depraved heart murder. >> it absolutely is.

>> does that mean -- and right below it is man slaughter, which indicates the prosecutor is living with the possibility that a jury might look at that and say no, we're not going to convict him of second degree, but we will convict him of involuntary man slaughter, the lesser included charge as they say right below it. what does that mean, the second degree version of it? does that mean that the driver -- this is the driver of the van who is charged with that. does that mean when he was driving the van, he had to drive it with the intent of injuring the passenger? >> well, injuring the passenger to the extent that he would have known that the reasonable person driving like that, that the passenger could die. and so that's why it's so difficult. the involuntary man slaughter would mean that the death was an accident, but the accident was a result of negligence to act. in this case, the negligent act could have been one of two things. one, not getting the medical help, but more likely would be

not putting the seat belt on the passenger. nine days earlier, the police procedures went in place that said, in fact, when the prisoners are put into a paddy wagon, you have to actually seat belt them. that hasn't been done for decades and decades and decades because police officers are afraid when a prisoner is acting up that when they go to put the seat belt on, they'll get bitten and spat at. thaems that's why sometimes they didn't do it in the past and that would have been the negligent act and the question the jury will have to find is was the driver or any one of the four officers charged with involuntary man slaughter, were they negligent and as a result of that negligence, did freddie gray die? >> neal franklin, when you were training baltimore police officers, were they trained to use the seat belts in the back of those vans? >> absolutely. that's why the seat belts are there, for use. and we know what happens when you're not seat belted in the back of one of those vans, you're literally at the mercy of

inertia, especially when your legs are shackled, too. you have no way of bracing yourself and the seat belt is the oi only thing to stop you from bouncing around in the van. as far as officers being afraid of leaning over to grab the seat belt to secure their passenger who is unruly or who may spit on them or whatever, you know, we have hoods available to prevent that sort of thing. we have training available to prevent that sort of thing. other officers can assist you in doing that. i just -- i don't know. i don't find that as a viable excuse. you do what you need to do to seat belt that person in there because we know that those people bounce all around inside that van, either intentionally or unintentionally when that van is man oveuvering through the streets of baltimore. >> professor hutchins, to the point that doug gansler is raising that surely the defense will be raising in this case

about the common practice, which will surely be in dispute of how often did they use these seat belts, what the requirements were, but also in addition to the seat belts and in addition to the notion of could the driver have anticipated that what he was doing would injure this passenger, isn't one of the other very important parts of the fact pattern here, the fact that the driver made so many stops along the way, so many stops and there were so many checks on this passenger to see what his condition was, it just -- it becomes, in that version of it, hard to see, i think, how they arrived at the final stop to only then discovered that he's not breathing? good evening. i think that's certainly one of the questions. so the number of steps that were made.

according to the prosecutor at several of those stops, mr. gray appears to be in distress. the officers were aware that he was in discretion. and so it seems unlikely that these officers did not know the behavior they were engaging in created a high degree of risk in terms of mr. gray's death. the other thing that is very important is this is not the first time somebody has died in a rough ride in baltimore. the city paid out something like $6 million in 2004 to a person that was paralyzed in a rough ride. another person died in a rough ride receivable years before. philadelphia has a history of this. chicago has a history of this. so if this were the first time someone was seriously injured in a rough ride, you might have more of a story the officers could not have known. when you've got this history, it is difficult to accept that story.

>> ron, can i jump in? i think that's right. clearly the conduct wasn't good. freddie gray died. his spine was snapped and he ends up dying from the injury. the question, though, for the court of law will be can they show the driver of the van, the police officer in baltimore was aware of these other cases, things happening in philadelphia and so forth. was he himself negligent or any officers negligent to the point where they would have known that somebody would have died in this case? and that's going to be -- and we don't know the answer to that. furthermore, do all four of those officers know that and who would be convicted of involuntary min voluntary slaughter man slaughter. >> i know the average person knows how serious a case of asthma can be. not even talking about the neck fracture that he's reported to have, but he was asking for his inhaler. you know, he has asthma. i think the average citizen

knows how easy it is for someone to die from a serious case of asthma. especially a police officer who has had emergency care in first responder. >> the situation on the streets of baltimore, 10:40 p.m., 40 minutes into the curfew. as if on schedule, like every night before this, by 10:40 p.m., everything is calm. the curfew violators have left the area. there is absolutely nothing contentious to report at any of our camera locations, at any of our correspondent locations on the streets of baltimore at now 10:41, 41 minutes into the curfew. we're going to take a break here. we'll be right back. ♪

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okay. we don't have his audio. so there's been a couple of arrests down there at city hall that we had on video as they were happening, but it's all under control there now. the big news of the day, of course, was the announcement by the state opens attorney marilyn mos mosby. marilyn mosby has been accused of conflict of interest in the death of freddie gray since she began her investigation. up until today, she was accused of being too close to police, especially when she was growing up in boston with both of her parents serving as boston police officers. her grandfather was a boston police officer. along with several of her aunts and uncles. now she's being accused of conflict of interest because she took a campaign donation from one of freddie gray's lawyers in her campaign for state's attorney.

one of the other contributors to mosby's campaign was the fraternal order of the police. the fop. the police union who is now defending the officers she has accused. >> as far as the conflicts of interest are concerned, you know, when i ran for this position, a lot of people said that it could not be done. i had over 700 donors who believed it could be done, including the fop who donated to my campaign. so if there's a conflict of interest because the gray's family attorney donated to my campaign, i would think there would be a conflict of interest in the fop who also donated to my campaign. >> marilyn mosby faces another accusation of conflict of interest today that prosecuting the interest is helpful to her husband's political career as a city councillor who represents the district where freddie gray

was killed. >> my husband is a public servant and so am i. he makes the laws, i enforce them. there is no conflict of interest. with regard to whether i'm prosecutoring climbs that take place in my husband's district, i live in that district. it makes absolutely no sense. i'm the baltimore city state's attorney. and whether it's in my husband's district or any of the other 13 council members that are represented in the city, i prosecute crimes wherever they take place. >> joining us now by phone is andrew leevy, a professor at the university of maryland law. also joining us is an adviser to marilyn moos byeby during her campaign, and sharon iso. andrew leevy, you know this prosecutor. tell us what we should know about her tonight. >> well, she's -- hasn't been in office long. she doesn't have a lot of

experience, but she's certainly -- she's certainly learning quickly, isn't she? she has brought a very, very aggressive set of clarnlgs. i don't know if she's going to be able to prove everything she's alleged, but she certainly has bitten off a lot. >> quasi, you worked with her or met with her and advised her while she was running. you've met a lot of young politicians who want to get started and want to take on a run for office. this was her first run for office, wasn't it? >> that's right. she, by the way, also served in the state's attorney office for a couple of years before deciding that she wanted, in fact, to bring a different sense of activism and of fairness to the office. and so i believe in marilyn mosby. i can tell you up front her story of coming through three generations of police officers, the fact that she knows it from the victim's perspective watching and seeing her own

cousin die on her front steps as a result of a violent act of crime, that propelled her to go to college, and then come back to a community that was suffering. so her and her husband, before anybody knew of them, found a house deep in the heart of west baltimore, they're repairing it, they're raising two children there. and then the story unfolds where he runs for office and gets elected and she runs for office and gets elected. but she's fair, she will seek justice wherever it takes her. she believes to the core of her veribying that she is supposed to follow the things that she's been sought as a child. seek justice, seek fairness, treat everybody the same and nobody should be above the law the. >> i feel like i caught one moment in her statement today where she just shaved off that word. she was saying she was seeking justice for this young man, meaning for freddie gray instead

of just seeking justice, period, let the jury decide in the end what that is. but when a prosecutor is making their case, they are making it on behalf of a victim. and victims testify in sentencing of cases, as we saw in boston with the bombing case recently. this is a victim who will never testify. and so this is the moment where the prosecutors are, in effect, representing freddie gray. >> and that's fairley routine. we very often see prosecutors -- closely to the victim's family. >> and never apologize for it. >> never apologize for it. talk about the victim, talk about the way in which they're vindicating the life of the victim. i didn't find anything unusual in her making that statement. >> andrew, very quickly, i remember i was a seen ager when i discovered that this attorney's campaigns are funded by defense lawyers that they take contribution from defense lawyers.

there's not an electeded prosecutor in the country that doesn't have contributiones from defense laws, is there? >> well, there isn't. and if you're going to have a constitutional system in which judges and prosecutors have to run for election, usually they are not independently wealthy and they've got to get the money from somewhere and it's not surprising that they would get it from the lawyers they deal with. >> i'm all in favor of a complete ban on defense lawyers contributing to prosecutors. but until that happens, i don't see anything special in this case. we're going to take a break here. we'll be right back. super poligrip seals out more food particles. so your food won't get stuck, and you can enjoy

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and the words of kennedy in april 1968 a few weeks before he was assassinated. >> this is the city that i love. this is the city that i chose to dedicate my life fop it is a difficult time for the united states. >> i can't even tell my kids and explain to them why this happened. >> what kind of a nation we are and what direction we want to move in. >> we will rebuild. >> we've had difficult times in the past and we will have difficult times in the future. what we need in the united states is not division. >> we have churches that are opening themselves up giving young people who are out of school a place to go and something to eat. >> what we need in the united states is not hatred. what we need in the united states is not violence and lawlessness, but is love and wisdom and compassion toward one another. want to live together. want to improve the quality of our life and want justice for

all human beings that abide in our land. >> that was, of course, robert kennedy speaking in reaction to the assassination of martin leether king jr. and those words echoing over the images that we saw out of baltimore today deeply moving wbal trying to capture that. you've been there. what has it been like for you this week? >> this has been a significant moment that many young people are calling their civil rights movement. it was not something that anybody got up planning to get involved in, but have realized that as a result of almost four decades, lawrence, of absolute poverty, despair, deprivation, degradation, denial and disprivilege and even disbelief in some instances that these communities are worth saving, it has boiled over into what we have. and what we have, america has. these are american citizens who want hope. and i think today they got a

sense that hope is, in fact, on the horizon. doctor king would always remind us that the arc of the universe is wrong, but it always bends towards justice. >> sherrilyn, your thoughts as we are now 56 minutes into another what appears to be successful enforcement of the curfew. and by the way, it can only be successful if the people of baltimore make it successful. the police can't make it successful. the people of baltimore have to decide, we are going to comply with this. >> lawrence, i moved to baltimore in 1993 and i was struck by two things. the love that people have for their communities and for their town, a kind of sense of pride. and also a sense of kind of directness about the reality of their situation and their condition. and i think people saw that on display this week. people in baltimore want the truth. they want transparency. i think what happened today is a huge and important step. but there's so much further to

go. and i've had a very measured response to today. on the one hand, very happy about the decision of state's attorney mosby, but recognizing with a very early part of a process with regard to these officers in terms of whether ultimately these charges will stick and they will be convicted, but also in terms of the city of baltimore and all of the conditions that led to what boiled over on monday night still exists in baltimore. so i want to see what's going to be the commitment. you know, the governor set up a satellite office to deal with law and order in baltimore city. it i'd love to see him set autopsy satellite office to deal with supporting small businesses, infrastructure, education, all of the things that really are critically important to young people in baltimore city. and whether on the other side of this that commitment will be increased, will be real, will be undergirded with real dollars and real support remain toes be seen. so i feel quite guarded about what we're seeing today and i think people in baltimore are, too. i think there's an elation today. people know that the problems in

this town run very, very deep. and they are going to require a real commitment, not a one-week commitment, not a one-day commitment. not fawning over one mother for grabbing her son, but a real commitment to the people of baltimore, young and old, black and white, and with a future for the city that people there love so much. >> thank you very much for joining us tonight. i want to give the last word tonight and the last word for the week to robert kennedy. here is more of what he said in 1968 about the assassination of mart martin luther king jr. robert kennedy himself was assassinated just a few weeks later. >> for those of you who are black and are attempted to be filled with hatred and distrust of the injustice of such an act against all white people, i would only say that i can also

feel in my own heart the same kind of feeling. i had a member of my family killed. he was killed by a white man. so we have to make an effort in the united states. we have to tonight, on lock- tour, we go behind prison walls. we meet a killer with a sadistic streak. >> what do you do with fire? >> boy, definitely -- >> and the interview takes a shocking