they may be competitors, but these two competitors have learned that they can succeed by helping each other out and a coffee maker, a brewer and a chocolatier join together to improve their products. how collaboration can lead to profits coming up on "your business." small businesses are revitalizing the economy and american express open is here to

help, that's why we are proud to present "your business" on msnbc. hi everyone. i'm j.j. ramburg. welcome to "your business." the show dedicated to helping your small business grow. the word competition doesn't always conjure up a warm and fuzzy feeling. usually it's someone out there you want to beat or a company you want to be more successful than, but that's not the case for everyone. we introduce you to one entrepreneur who believes collaborating is actually better than competing. he started working with his competition when he noticed that they both had customers and products in common. >> even when we talked with our

friends or family about it they're like you work together with your competitor? and, yeah. i mean the answer is yes, we do. >> tobey print has no problem collaborating with his direct competition. >> it's one of those things i think you have to put the competitiveness aside. >> the owner of all about education in downtown lexington, north carolina knows that some people just don't get what he's doing. >> i'm not sure what they would think, you know maybe that we're crazy or maybe we're brilliant. >> morgan walmac and her parents ronnie and bonnie who run education express are the competition in question but frankly you'd never know it. >> i don't like saying that they're competitors because they are our friends. >> the majority of our customers that are repeat customers know that we have a relationship together. when they pull out their discount card from either store, oh gosh you're not shopping there, and he does the same. >> there are three stores two of them close to toby's business.

the winston-salem location is to the north of all about education, another is to the south in concord. both are in malls. if you look at a map, you might think there's no overlap, but you'd be wrong. >> we have customers that come in every day a lot of times that are telling us hey, i've been to the winston-salem store, i've been to the concord mills store. >> they're always at our county talking about all about education. >> they know the clients they share are willing to go the distance to find the workbooks, brain games and school supplies for the students. >> there are not a lot of stores like ours left. >> they see us as a community of stores who are in it for the educators. >> the products they're selling aren't that different. >> 90% i would say of what we sell is direct competition. >> but that doesn't stop this pair from collaborating. shoppers are sent to each other's businesses all the time. >> the customers are our number one priority. if our customers are satisfied, then we have a successful business, whether it's all about

education or education express. >> there's been equal amount of times that they've sent people to us and we've sent people to them. i don't think we've lost out. >> inventory swaps happen. >> we have a meeting spot on the highway. there are times gi to their store, they come to my store when we have something we need. >> if there's a way to get items to teachers and parents faster it's worth it. >> it helps me to have three stores to pull from essentially and it gives them an additional store to pull from you know which is a big deal. >> if toby has a shipment coming in, the margins aren't there, and we aren't getting free shipping, why not get it from him when it's already on the shelf. >> speed isn't the only factor so isn't cost. customers don't have to pay more. >> the price is the same. it's exactly the same whether they buy it from me or buy it from them. >> the better news is that exchanging inventory can actually save customers money. there are no extra fees and the companies say that leads to loyalty.

>> it's customer service to work with our competitor to get the item quicker. the customer is who benefits. >> the companies place orders together to get free shipping. >> if we can't get our order together to get those terms, why not collaborate so we can get the both for both of us. >> toby and the womicks coordinate visits for their sales reps. >> sales reps are not visiting as much as they once were. for us to schedule the appointments together so when they come here they go to toby or vice versa, it makes sure we're getting touched and seen by our sales reps. >> competition about products that are the best are constant. >> i think what we're doing is making each other's store better. we have different perspectives. >> tobey says the educational supply industry is different from others out there. it's just not as competitive. >> most all of the education stores are very friendly very willing to help you with new items or you know just ideas

of things to do. >> while toby and morgan chat about a lot of things certain topics are off limits. >> i don't know their bottom -- you know, what they do in a year's time. i don't think they know what we do in a year's time. >> i think as far as numbers at the end of the day, that's just an area that we honestly don't have to share and don't need to share. there's no added benefit for sharing our sales goals. >> while you think this could lead to a merger neither side is interested. >> i just really enjoy being in a small town. i think the people are the biggest part of it. >> we're definitely separate entities. i think he got into it for one reason we got into it in another. he has grown in his community and we have a different philosophy. >> toby and morgan agree that their partnership has been worth it and encourage others to think

about it. >> most of the time the end user is the child. we're working together for the children, i guess. >> i think what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. workings together there's more of us. there's more brains together. he's not taking our business and we're not taking his, but we are sharing each other's business. >> collaborating with a competitor may not be usual, but working with other companies that are targeting your same customers is and it can really work to boost your sales. we saw this happen when the separate owners of businesses selling coffee chocolate, and beer joined up to sell their products together. three small businesses with very different products have a lot more in common than you might think. >> patrick chocolate makes craft chocolates, bean to bar. >> they've embraced the concept of co-branding. >> we're combining two brands together to help build a stronger presence. >> josh ferguson the owner of

kaldi's coffee has made co-branding part of his business strategy. he believes that can make business opportunities together. >> whatever we're co-branding with and on we'd like it to be successful. we like to push it talk about it promote it in our stores with wholesale customers. >> the companies have collaborated on half a dozen products. one of them is beer. >> one day we decided to combine two products we care about, coffee and beer and created the coffee stop. >> they've worked with schlafly on coffee stout. >> the first brew of the day should be coffee for many brewers. to blend that with beer seems like a natural marriage. >> the proof of the partnership is in the packaging. >> we wanted to make sure that it was very obvious that it was co-branded. >> both companies have made it clear that kaldi's coffee plus a local beer equals a quality

product. the relationship has been so successful that the seasonal brew consistently sells out. >> we get people to come in all the time that are so excited to know that schlafly is brewed there, their next coffee stout. i think it helps and benefits both of us. >> alan mcclure the owner of patric chocolate became one of kaldi's partners after going to a coffee tasting. he suggested doing some co-branding of their own. >> i thought what if i did a white chocolate and put coffee in it. it was like a cappuccino bar. >> the result was two cappuccino bars. we began working on a mocha which is a dark chocolate bar with dark chocolate. >> patric's is newer and different. like shafly's, it collaborates.

>> it has a strong presence and whatever the other product is. >> when we sell them to our customers we mention kaldis but it's a patric product. >> in addition to the patric mocha that is sold exclusively at kaldi's, it's done wonders to get the profile out. >> get the chocolate into the stores and have the customers taste it and become repeat customers. >> when it comes to financing, the models are relatively straightforward. >> the investment from both parties has never been a leading part of the discussion. it's usually come pretty late in the game where we both knew we were going to contribute in some form or fashion. >> here's how it works with the chocolate. patric buys coffee beans from kaldi's and they pay for the labels. >> they wanted for their stores kaldi's specific packaging that

looked like any other kaldi's product and that made sense to me. >> kaldi's sells their beans to shafly for the stout. it was as sim as a handshake. >> if you're going to get into a co-branding situation, make sure it's somebody that you know that you zblus getting the products launched took months of research and development, but these entrepreneurs say they believed in their partners and the products right from the start. >> you have to be able to say, even if you weren't working together i would go and buy this product. >> the benefits and the pitfalls of co-branding are unique to each arrangement, but these entrepreneurs say co-branding is a risk worth taking. funds can get tight when you have a small business as we all know but there are several simple things you can do to cut your costs. here are five ways you can save your company time and money

courtesy of entrepreneur.com. one, get cash for ink cartridges. sites like toner buyer.com and staples often offer around $20 for empty ones. two, use free forms and software. you can find some at docks, legal zoom rocket lawer and a none of other sites. three, use connected apps. many new services work effectively when used together. leverage link providers whenever possible in order to save time. four, build your business credit. you'll be able to access more financing at better rates when you build your credit through your business's name instead of your personal account. a free service from credit tera makes it easy to understand build, and protect your business's credit. five refinance for better rates. you may be paying high interest because you had poor credit when you initially borrowed money so renegotiate your existing financing.

as an entrepreneur multi-tasking is a necessary skill, and this week's app of the week will help you be even more productive when you're on the road. tipbit is a free mobile app that pulls everything you need to work effectively on the go into one place. you can round up your e-mails, appointments and get the latest scoop on linked-in, facebook and twitter. you can use multiple accounts and connect relevant documents to your e-mails so you always have the necessary information on hand. big news in the world of search engine optimization this week. google changed their algorithm so that it takes into consideration whether your site is mobile friendly and if it is not, you are going to be pushed down the list on the search pages. some people were referring to this change as mobile geddon. what does this mean? lance is editor at mashable.com. he's here with helpful tips to boost your search ranking when

people are searching for you on your mobile devices. so good to see you, lance. >> thanks for having me. >> so this mobile geddon doesn't seem to have happened but i don't think we can ignore it. i haven't heard people who have dropped down in seo. >> nor have i, but i think this is a case where maybe it doesn't have the biggest impact but it's something that people have been talking about behind the scenes. google is making it public. they're saying think mobile first because we certainly are and if your site if your business is not ready online for mobile devices, well we don't want to offer a bad experience because how do people find things? they go to google and they type in pizza, dry cleaning you know carpet cleaning and up pop all of these little sites. well if your little site isn't built for a sort of vertical scroll, a mobile device you're going to be lower. everybody knows. i was thinking about this when i was coming in how do we search everyday. how do we view the web now? even if we're not outside our

homes, are we sitting at our desk tops? are we sitting on our laptops? no, we're sitting with our ipads, we're sitting with our mobile devices, we're scrolling through looking for that. even that, that's the mobile experience. so everyone understands, that's where people look first. >> right. okay. that's basically what google is telling us as well. right, as you're saying this is what we're concentrating on. this is a good reminder for us to take a look at our site and see how it looks on mobile. >> that's right. >> give us some ideas about how to -- from people who are only paying attention to on their big screen. what things can we do to make us look good on mobile. >> image optimization the size of the images weight how big the files are, small enough. that's important. run it through. set a limit. really important. flash. don't use flash. >> don't use that right. >> just stop. this may be the death throws of flash, this particular move. designed for vertical. so don't make people scroll to the right or left to find the

stuff on your site. imagine that it's a phone, a galaxy or an iphone and that they're just doing this. if you put all your information in a vertical scroll you're going to help yourself immensely. there's also something called vertical design. it's smart enough to know how to resize itself depending on the device you are looking at. mashable happens to be this kind of site where you can look at it on the desktop or you can look at it on something as small as the iphone and it's the same site but it automatically resizes itself. it makes sense. most developers understand what responsive design is. >> to me that is the only answer when you're designing for mobile because then you're not designing two separate experiences. >> right. >> you're taking your site but it's tricky because -- and i know this because we've gone through it right, and you get something that is beautiful on the screen and then you put it on your phone and it just doesn't work. >> so it means a lot of

forethought. >> right. >> it really means that your -- first of all, your site should be smart enough to recognize the kind of device it is on. it has to sniff that information and then be resizeable. when you're designing, think about that. you have to have all of these panels that show full width, half width, one column. when we were designing our site that's kind of what we went through. it seemed very complex, but once you do it -- >> right. >> -- then it kind of lays the groundwork and it becomes a lot easier. if you're concerned, if you don't know you've got your own website and you have no idea is it ready, google has set up a site and will run a test for you and tell you thumbs up thumbs down. >> lance it's so great to see you. maybe this wasn't the mobile geddon people were predicting but it is definitely a good reminder to everybody out there, think mobile. you're crazy if you're not. >> the customers hands wherever they are. >> good to see you. >> my pleasure. still to come getting insurance for your new small

business. and how to get the attention of potential partners. today's elevator picture has a deal for you with her site that sells all kinds of products created by women entrepreneurs. american express for travel and entertainment worldwide. just show them this - the american express card. don't leave home without it! and someday, i may even use it on the moon. it's a marvelous thing! oh! haha! so you can replace plane tickets, traveler's cheques, a lost card. really? that worked? american express' timeless safety and security are now available on apple pay. the next evolution of membership is here.

today's your biz selfie is from walnutport pennsylvania. you can see his phone number. these are so much fun to see. please send us your selfie. you can e-mail it to yourbusiness@msnbc.com or tweet it at #yourbizselfie. there are all kinds of daily deal sites out there, but today's elevator pitch is one that focuses on women entrepreneurs. let's see if the two female founders on our panel think it's a good ideal. celeste is at skin authority and shawna is at marketing zen group. >> hi. i'm jackie burlowski. jackie deals.com was borne out of my experience of launching a subscription service where i worked really closely with female entrepreneurs. i soon realized that there

needed to be a platform to connect these talented female entrepreneurs with like-minded customers who would love their products and would want to find out more about the women behind them. jackie deals.com is a platform where women can find out about up and coming premiere products and learn more about the women who created them. best of all, women receive amazing deals on these products when i give them their exclusive discount code to use on the entrepreneur's website. i carry the best of the best so women don't have to pour through thousands of products. i also produce high quality video content showcasing these products and telling more about the women's stories. i'm asking for $250,000 so i can build brand awareness, build more traffic to our website and source more products. please visit jackiedeals.com. >> you are well rehearsed on that jackie. good job. i'm going to give you two these and those two. so one to ten i want two scores. one is what do you think of the

concept, the product? and one is how do you believe the pitch went? i'm guessing jackie these are two of the things that you feature on the site? >> yes. these are two examples. >> this is a purse and this is a -- >> a wearable candle. once you light the wax and it's warm you can use the body butter. >> i gave her an 8 for the pitch. she did a great job. the reason i gave her an 8 was because i feel the one thing i'd love to know is what really differentiates from all the many deal sites out there. more importantly, when you look for the $250,000 for the marketing, what are you going to be focused on. what channels do you want to differentiate. that would be helpful for me. for the product, i gave it to 6 because i think it's similar to a lot of things out there. the concept's great. i like the focus on women. i would bring that the female entrepreneur to the forefront. i think that is your

differentiation and the video content. the similarities are really there for a lot of other products or technology that's out there. >> snaun. >> all right. so i've got an 8 for the pitch and 7 for the product. jackie you're fantastic. >> thank you. >> you have a lot of confidence. your pitch was strong. it looks like you believe in women entrepreneurs. it looks like you believe in what you're doing. i did a 7 for the product because similar to celeste, i think that you have a lot of competition, one. two, you need a stronger differentiator. i wouldn't be surprised to see that you start here but it morphs do. there's nothing wrong with pivoting and it being an evolution from this standpoint. i think it's great you're building a community of women entrepreneurs. the meat is there but the other things might need more finesse finessing. >> it's interesting. it's all about the cure rags and people telling their friends, et cetera. >> yes. >> we are excited. thanks for pitching it on the

show. >> thank you for your feedback on this. if any of you out there have a product or service, you want feedback from our elevator pitch panel on your chances of getting interested investors, all you have to do is send us an e-mail. the address is yourbusiness@msnbc.com. tell us what your business does, houchb how much money you're trying to raise and what you're going to do. you never know someone might be watching you. it is time to answer your business questions. we're here to help you out. the first one is about getting insurance. >> so what are the kinds of insurances that a small business owner should think about when they're opening their business? >> good for her for asking. this is something that a lot of people forget about. what did you think about when you started your business? >> you know there's so many different insurance pieces that you have to think about. i really encourage all

entrepreneurs to consider business operator's insurance. it makes sure you have all things considered professional liability, workers compensation you have to think about whether you have personal liability. there's business interruption insurance you need should something catastrophic happens and it interrupts your business and you don't have cash flow. you look at liability and now the most important thing is data breach. if you're collecting information, personal information, financial information on customers and your data gets breached in some way, you're liable. >> so the way i think about it is for small businesses, i grew in two camps. what's required by law and what's recommended. that really does help especially if you are looking at a budget and thinking what kind of insurance i should get. required you look at things like disability insurance, workers' comp insurance. every state is different. you want to make sure that you're checking with the state that you do business in. texas, for example, does not require workers' comp insurance but other states do. even if you have employees in other states you have to check

those states and regulations. recommended like celeste was mentioning looking at business liability, what are some things that i can do pro actively to protect myself. >> what did you do you found an insurance broker that works with businesses like yours? >> i talked to my accountant i talked to the insurance person. i really had sort of a team of people. a lawyer i think is very very important. a good business lawyer that can help you as well. >> let's move onto the next one. this next one is about connecting with customers. >> i find my biggest successes come when i reach out to my clients individually but i only have so many hours in the day. so how do i find a way to balance my automation and my personal outreach? >> i think there's a couple of things. one is you know i also think being creative in how you outreach because you definitely want to be connecting and making sure what you're reaching out with is relevant. people will want to have repeat dialogues with you whether you're using social media, whether you're using direct connection through phone or appearances that you do getting involved in the community.

it's really about having something that's relevant and sharing information. content is a great way to engage people. delivering things of value to them, things they can use in their lives and business. >> but that's not personal. when you're talking about social media, this is you to many. i think what she's talking about is you to you, one to one. >> right. >> which is it important? right, cost/benefit, is it important to go out there and talk to one customer? >> sure it is. i think the challenge is scale. that's what she was referring to. but i think if you remember what are people looking for? what's your audience looking for? as celeste mentioned, it is content. they want something relevant. newsletters are a great way to send that out to them. e-mail marketing even though you're reaching out one to many can still be very personalized in that way. you can still collect information so you know how often someone wants to hear from you, what topics they're interested in. i think as long as you're catering to those specific needs, i think it's totally okay to use these automation systems.

how else are you going to scale as a small business? >> let's move onto the last question. it's about trying to impress potential partners. >> i spend a lot of time on linked-in trying to reach jv partners, potential partners for my company. the question for the experts is do you have any short cuts best practices, insider tricks we can use to get by some of the gatekeepers? >> what do you think in. >> go directly to the top. on linked-in you don't have to message an assistant to get an appointment. it's okay to directly connect with one. two keys you want to be persistent. sometimes it does take a few tries for people to connect with that earnperson. second, you want to be personalized. the last thing you want to do is send the same template. would love to connect with you, trying to do this jv thing. it's important to say what's in it for them what are you trying to accomplish. why reach out to them. if you're going to take the time

to do it definitely do it right. >> i agree. do your homework. i think being able to reach out in a way that really explains why you need to make this connection, why it's valuable to you. the other thing that's a creative idea that we've been very successful at. we've organized ways to speak and we reach out to the person and say, we'd love for you to speak and engage them that way. then you can have a dialogue that makes a warm introduction but also delivers value to them and it opens that door. >> that's a great idea. thanks so much both of you guys. this was great advice. love seeing you both. >> thank you. >> if any of you out there have a question and you'd like to get them answered here on the show we answer them every week. send us an e-mail. the address is yourbusiness@msnbc.com. thanks, everyone so much for joining us today. to learn more about the show just click on our website. it's openforum.com/yourbusiness. you'll find all of the segments we had on the show plus some web exclusive content with a lot

more information to help your business grow. you can also follow us on twitter. it's @msnbcyourbiz and we are on facebook and instagram as well. next week a reno chef with multiple restaurant figures out a way to help the efficiency of his business. >> it's a big undertaking that has all of these different facets to it that will come together under one roof. >> how to vertically integrate your business by taking control of your supply chain. until then i'm j.j. ramburg. until then remember, we make your business our business. brought to you by american express open. visit openforum.com for ideas to help you grow your business. just show them this - the american express card. don't leave home without it! and someday, i may even use it on the moon. it's a marvelous thing! oh! haha! so you can replace plane tickets, traveler's cheques, a lost card. really? that worked?

american express' timeless safety and security are now available on apple pay. the next evolution of membership is here. thanks to you at home for joining us. we have news later on this hour on bridgegate. the guilty pleas and the criminal indictments announced in the new jersey bridge scandal. we have been watching the events unfold in baltimore. we've been watching this story all week. no one expected what was going to happen today. if you have been watching, especially not just this story about what happened to freddie gray and the police officers who have been charged in his death. if you have been watching with the nation and the world, as we've seen so many cases of police-involved killings, you didn't expect this day to come. nobody really did.