nothing is easy about going back to colombia. you could hike and bleed all day and cover just a couple of miles. it didn't really occur to us how dangerous it was. four soldiers just materialized out of the bush. we're surrounded, and it's just crazy.

they were going to take me into the jungle and put a bullet in my head. ♪ >> i was 21 when i went to the university of colorado. i really wasn't doing very well. i wanted to leave. i was thinking about what i was going to do next. i was from colombia. when i was very small, two months, i was adopted by an american couple. and it occurred to me that i should go back to colombia. i think it's important for people that have grown up somewhere else to go back. it would be an adventure. i figured i would grow as a person, and then everything would make sense. i kind of road tripped down from

colorado. that was an important part of the trip was to really get off the tourist track. i wanted to go back to colombia in a way that was meaningful to me. i can fly or take a boat. it was kung fu or something, this idea that i would be walking through central america. i felt there was some truth to this. you get on a road, and you can take it all the way south, but it ends in panama. that's it. but to cross into colombia, you have to cross the darien gap. the darien is kind of mythical. it's jungle for hundreds of miles. it was challenging, this idea to cross the darien. frightening. but why should it be easy? i bought a machete, a pair of tropical combat boots, small military backpack. didn't really want to carry

much. >> mosquitos? si, si. >> bought a baby blue mosquito net. it's almost comical. how does one shop for a jungle adventure? i was trying to shed my american appearance. i felt it would be easier for me to blend in. i don't know if i did a very good job. i look kind of like a bum, i think. >> hola. >> the last thing i needed before i left was a map. >> darien? >> not a lot of people ask for a map of the darien, obviously. and i'm looking at what kind of maps are there. and this guy walks in. he goes to the same counter. >> hola, senora. >> he asks about a map of the darien. >> si, darien. >> this is kind of strange. and i'm just all ears. i'm curious. >> that's a coincidence. i was just looking for a map of the darien as well.

>> he introduced himself. >> robert. >> why are you so interested in the darien? >> he said he was a journalist. the woman gave us a set of aerial photographs. they all looked the same. it was just green. just trees. >> it's going to be a big help. >> you couldn't distinguish one from the other. when were you thinking of going? >> the next day or two. >> i think both of us were trying to figure out if it was a good fit to go together. so we agreed to meet up at his hotel. already i was thinking about if we were going to travel together, how this would go. >> i brought some maps of my own. >> my plan was to kind of go unnoticed through darien. but he was traveling with another woman who was my age. >> my friend megan. >> i'm like, you know, she is blond and six feet tall. at this point i'm like, well, there is no way we're going to be sneaking through the darien. >> we're just trying to figure out the best route. >> okay. >> i think meg was so sure about me coming along, which was funny because i kind of had my own concerns about them.

i think we were all a little interested what we would encounter in the darien. >> we could run into some colombian guerrillas in this area. >> right, the farc. >> i knew about the farc. farc stands for the revolutionary armed force of colombia. i was interested in what they were trying to do. they were people that in my 21-year-old liberal arts mind were taking direct action. i thought that they would change the way things were in colombia -- poverty. it was romantic. freedom fighters. yeah. there was a discussion about the potential of us being kidnapped, but i had to get to colombia, and i was going to do it this way. >> so how do you feel about us all going together? >> i said yeah. >> let's do it. >> we got in the boat, and there

we were, headed into the darien. i didn't think there would be any real severe consequences. anything that i was going get into, i felt that i could get out of. i think we all felt that way. it would take all day to travel three or four miles. but we were definitely on our way. robert had a gps. but the gps was tough in that part of the world. we tried to get our maps to gel with the gps. we couldn't get the map to coordinate. it became very clear that this type of journey was impossible without a guide. we went up river all day, and we arrived at a native village, capati. at that time we met victor. he saw us pull in. >> hello. welcome. good morning.

>> mark. >> i liked victor right off. he was really friendly. >> good morning, miss. >> hi. how is it going? >> i am single. >> older, earlier 50s. victor kind of took us on a tour. we walked through the village. he showed us his house. we told victor we were planning to cross the darien into colombia. and that didn't seem like too big an issue for him. he talked about his experience guiding in the past. and he claimed to have contact with the farc, which was another relief. that's one less of a reason to worry with a guide that has contacts with the farc. kind of won us over, you know. >> si, bien. >> leaving capati was phenomenal. it was happening. it was really happening. we had a young boy that was our guide to the next village. we were on our way.

the first couple of days were really rough for robert. he had like heat exhaustion. it was just really difficult keeping enough fluids in him. we were hiking between like 10 to 12 hours each day. portions of the trail really slow. we had to cut through brush. they weren't well traveled. we'd walk in riverbeds for an hour, and then suddenly our guide would skirt off on a very small almost like a game trail that you would never spot on your own. we walked for almost 12 hours coming into pucuro. it was dusk. and we startled the people there. [ speaking foreign language ] it was just a really rare occurrence to have people coming to the village. these young men came out.

they had machetes. it felt really hostile. yeah, i'm scared. i'm scared. i have no idea what they're going to do. ♪ ♪ ♪ wheall i can think abouthit, is getting relief. nicorette mini starts to relieve sudden cravings fast. anytime. anywhere. i never know when i'll need relief. that's why i choose nicorette mini. those diagnosed with cancer who explored

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i don't know what's going to happen. are we going to be beat? and it's just crazy. they were all in our face. there was dogs. just unbelievable commotion. we're uninvited.

we're in the darien. we've left the police outpost. and all we really have is victor. all i can think, stay with victor. stay with victor. if anyone is going to sort this out, victor is going to sort it out. victor kept his calm, and he walked directly to the chief's home. obviously they wanted to hear from us what we were doing there and what we were planning. victor negotiated with the tribe. [ speaking foreign language ] >> the next day, victor negotiated guides for us. the plan was for the guides to take us as far as paya, which was the last panamanian village. in just a matter of days, we

would be inside colombia. i certainly didn't think we put the most difficult part of the trek behind us. we had yet to enter the border region, the real heart of the jungle, if you will. we hiked all day through the jungle. i remember victor kind of laughing with the guides about the amount of water we were drinking. and then we did run out of water. at first it's like wow, i'm really thirsty. i would like some water. and then it's i don't feel well. i feel light-headed. we need to find water soon. eventually, we found a grove of green bamboo. >> bamboo. agua. >> they would hack off part of the tree and cut off the top and you literally have six to eight ounces of water stored in the tree.

it was like a tremendous relief. we hiked all afternoon, and that afternoon we arrived in paya. coming into paya was much different than pucuro because they were expecting us. we made it to the last stop before you cross the border into colombia. that evening, we attended this tribal meeting. i can remember there is a group of young men kind of dancing in circles, playing their music, enjoying themselves. we ate fish and then rice and some bush meat, iguana. you eat what is served. and it was good. it was good. by that time, things were moving along pretty well, and we were able to negotiate with the chief for guides.

i couldn't believe where i was. i felt incredibly fortunate. i felt like i was doing what i set out to do. we were there for a couple of days. victor told us that it would be safer if we made contact with the farc now rather than later. he told us that a local commander with the farc would meet with us. we spent a whole day. we just hung out. but they never showed up. if the farc had showed up, that would have been a huge relief, but that didn't happen. and the following day, we left. leaving paya, i knew we were close to colombia. we were probably about a day or day and a half from the border. paya was our last village, and then beyond that, the really serious part began. hiking through the jungle is

what you would expect. everything is sharp and pointy or trying to eat you. i had a compass, but you can't just pick a direction and walk east there is ravines and valleys. you could hike and bush whack and bleeld -- bleed all day and cover a couple of miles and not really be any farther than where you started there would be points where the guide would turn around and we would go back the same way we came, went off in another direction. you don't have any line of sight, and you're down under the canopy. and you really don't even have a sense what direction you're walking. what i notice more than anything was this feeling that we were almost walking in circles. you'll pass a tree or some sort of feature of vegetation, and you'll swear you already walked by it.

we camped at night and expected to be in colombia the following day. the next morning we woke up, we had breakfast. >> hey, robert, are you all packed? >> all packed. >> what about your hammock? >> and we continued. we knew that we were probably going to cross into colombia that day. right around noon, we decided to stop for lunch. and while we were eating, three men we knew from paya passed us. they were headed to the same village, and they were moving quite quickly. they had heavy bags, but they were moving much faster than we were. exchanged pleasantries and they were off. we knew we wouldn't see them again until we got there. so after lunch, we grabbed our stuff and we got back under way, and slightly after that, we were up on a ridge line. it was open.

there was a storm that had come in and knocked down a lot of the trees. we were all kind of picking our way through. and it was at that point where we heard the gunshots. [ gunshots ] [ gunshots ]

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[ gunshots ] >> we heard the gunshots. they were very distinct. is that what i think it is? they were farther up the valley, maybe a half mile or mile away. they were just low bursts of fire. boop boop boop boop, boop boop boop boop. [ gunfire ] my heart is racing. i remember kind of having my own -- my own moment of anxiety, you know. at that point, our guides simply said that they weren't going to continue. and they dropped everything they were carrying, and they ran. there was no discussion. they were going back to paya. end of story.

in moments, they were gone, and robert's gear and our food and everything were just on the trail. >> mark, are you okay? >> and now it was victor and meg and robert and myself. before we could talk about what we wanted to do or what our plan was, two of the men who had passed us earlier in the day showed up. one of them was bleeding, and -- break news on msnbc. we're taking you straight to text. gunfire interrupting a art event called the hue hamd art event and contest. 25 miles outside of dallas itself. police telling a crowd a police officer and two men were shot outside of the exhibit, including a police officer. now, investigators say two men drove near the building, opened fire, and according to nbc affiliate kxas officers shot and

killed those suspects. the event featured images of the islamic prove etd, muhammad which some may think is offensive. the information that we are getting at this moment is still sparse, although at this time, at the hour there, early evening, i believe aren't 8:24 local time, and the information that we're getting is that at the moment, two men have been shot by police outside the curtis callwell center. that's garland, texas. that happened this afternoon. and that's what the garland police have confirmed to our affiliate there. they are saying that two men, again, pulling up in a vehicle, shooting a garland police officer outside that building. those men, who then shot that police officer, were shot and killed by other garland police. now, the officer who was shot remains at this moment in a

local hospital with nonlife threatening injuries. business near that area, according to kxas, were evacuated, including a nearby wall mat. in these pictures you can see at the moment, one, two, three ambulances at the bottom of your screen. it appears they have a hook and ladder above the street, and a little bit higher on your screen here on the left side some more fire vehicles as well as police vehicles there in garland, texas. again, at this art exhibit that featured illustrations of the prophet mu homeland that some islams may find offensive. at the moment, as we look at these chopper cam pictures live from -- i believe it's our affiliate who are giving us these pictures at the moment. as they are scanning the area, the businesses were shut down in the area. we continue to gather more information from our affiliate

in the area. local time at this moment as we look at garland, texas, 8:25 p.m. the information that we're getting is that this did happen earlier this afternoon. so, again, as we get the information from our affiliate at this hour, one police officer shot. the hue hamd art exhibit and contest, which is the event i'm talking about was organized by the american freedom defense initiative. that group claiming the event is an effort to stan up against violent intimidation. garland s.w.a.t. did evacuate those attending the event to a neighboring area, a high school that is close by called naman forest high school. and the information that we're getting right now, again, is, as

we look at what's happening here at the curtis callwell center in garland, we do have one attendee who says that she did attend that event. she said the event began around 5:40 p.m. local time, according to what she was telling us. it ended a little after 7:00 p.m. local. again it's right around 8:30 p.m. local there in garland, texas. she and her friend left right as it ended. now right -- this is what she was telling us. she said, quote, right when we were beginning to drive away, we heard gunshots. we thought they were fireworks, but they were not. she said. so that would then say if she left right before 7:00 p.m. that timing may be early evening as opposed to afternoon. we're trying to understand exactly when this did happen. again, what she was saying is that when she was leaving, right around 7:00 p.m., which would make that about an hour and a half ago -- just an hour and a

half ago, that they heard some gunshots, what she was saying, cynthia belyle, who again was attending that event and telling us that she was there with a friend. now dozens of cops, she also told us, did come, did arrive, they did spring into action, she said. they started yelling, and the women were told to stay put in the location that they were at. and they also heard a second round of shooting. this eyewitness also saying that she saw police rushing toward the far end of the parking lot at callwell. and as you can see, it's a very expansive parking lot as the chopper cam pulls out to a wide shot here of the curtis callwell center there in garland. she did not see -- this eyewitness did not see the shooters or the fire exchange but remained parked for about 20 minutes before they were allowed to leave that area. so, again, according to her account, we are look at a time frame of about anywhere from one and a half to two hours ago.

to summarize, what we are learning right now, two men have been shot by police outside the curtis callwell center in garland. we'll continue to follow this for you right here on ms nbc. ou totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends. three jobs. you're like "nothing can replace brad!" then liberty mutual calls. and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement, we'll pay for a car that's a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. toenail fungus? seriously? smash it with jublia! jublia is a prescription medicine proven to treat toenail fungus. use jublia as instructed by your doctor. look at the footwork! most common side effects include ingrown toenail, application-site redness, itching, swelling, burning or stinging, blisters, and pain.

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smartphone or tablet from comcast. visit comcast.com/wireless to learn more. break news here on msnbc, as we are watching live pictures here you see on the left-hand side of your screen, coming out of gar ladd tikz, not far outside of dallas texas. local time 8:32. the news that we have for you at this hour as this chopper cam seems to be zooming in on the conference center. it's called the curtis callwell center in garland, texas. two men were shot by police outside of this center. police are confirming, according to our affiliate, kxas, that what had happened, and the timing is somewhere in the afternoon, anywhere from an hour and a half up to four or five years -- we're not sure at the

moment we have varying accounts of when this happened. but what we know is that two men in that time period pull up in a vehicle and shot a garland police officer that was outside the building. what was happening inside that building was a fair. now, the fair was showing artwork, illustrations of the prophet, muhammad and the name of that fair was the muhammad art exhibit and context. that's what happened. now, the two individuals that did drive up and shot that police officer were then shot and killed themselves. we don't know who they are. we don't know where they are from, or what their motive was. that information we don't have at the moment. what we can say is that police are confirming that those two men have been shot and killed, and that those two men did shoot a police officer from that area. that's what we know at this hour. let's bring in cliff van zant,

former fbi profilar, and also one of the msnbc's analysts here. cliff, when you get this information -- and right now the question is can we put one plus one together? too early, right? we don't have the information. but what are you thinking? >> i think it's a little too early. now n any case like this the authorities are going to be very quick. they have obviously got the two shooters. they will have the vehicle that the two shooters were in. they will be looking for any connection whatsoever, anybody related to them, any family members, any group affiliations. they will be looking at the weapons, the ammunition, and also was this a spur of the moment type situation or was this something planned? if planned, were there other accomplices, other people involved? did someone else know about this? in essence, do we have the proverbial, in this case, maybe two lone wolves working together, or is this some type

of group operation that took place that was specifically targeting this. one more time, though, we know a police officer has come into a line of fire. in situations like this, many times you see a police officer on duty or off duty, he or she is there. because of the uniform, because they represent security for a facility like this. >> right. >> but again, many times they are the first person targeted by shooter. >> what they did here, clint, in the process of this -- right now, again, 8:35logical time there in garland, texas. what the s.w.a.t. team did is evacuated those that were at the event. although one account says the event was closing anyway. they did evacuate those that were there into a neighboring high school. as they evacuate them to the high school, how long do you keep them there? might they be thinking potentially some of those that are there would be involved in this plot for what has just happened? >> well, they have two different

situations. number one, as you rightly suggest, they need to identify everybody there to make sure that wasn't an insider. and number two, they have to consider the possibility of a second wave, could there be one or two more shooters waiting for these individuals to evacuate who might shoot? you know, you have to look for mr. inside and mr. outside in a situation like this. >> now, what was also mentioned is that this event may be understanding that there may be some sort of conflict. according to our affiliate, kxas that they did have a heavy police presence there all afternoon, right outside that center, and that they had spent oh, nearly $10,000, according to what the police are telling our affiliate, on extra security for that event. and also, a little bit more context to this. the event was organized and put together after another even in january -- that event in january

was proislamic. and so many people, as has been said in previous situations, as you know, clint, that they find depictions of the prophet muhammad offensive. and so that certainly adds to all of this. and yet more questions, clint. >> well, and one of the questions is going to be, as you suggest, if there was in fact a heavy police presence, if this is costing in excess of $10,000 to provide this security, is that because of the general level of threat that might be associated with an event like this? or were there specific threats that have been made? in essence, was law enforce men responding because they really believed that something like this was going to happen. and unfortunately, one or more -- in this case, two individuals may well have acted out? so police may have had some information, either rumor, threat, innuendo or intelligence

that this was going to happen. maybe not this night, maybe not this time, but there is some reason they had that heavy presence there. >> more information that we are getting from the garland, texas police department, the spokesman there, know harn, just telling nbc news that -- joe harn, just telling nbc news that the two sts got out of their vehicle in the parking lot. they then started shooting. they did injure a kbarland security guard. i want to be more specific. a garland security guard. that guard has been transported to a local hospital. we understand that that security guard is in stable condition. non-life threatening injuries. that's good news. and also we are hearing from the spokesman here, clint, that the men were then engaged by the garland police officers that you and i were talking about. and after that engagement, the two suspects were killed. there is a nearby wall mamplt that's been closed. the event center now being

evacuated. it sooemd seems like the activities, at least the activities from this chopper cam as now the sun sets in the area is a little bit more quiet. but who knows what may be happening. the people in the events center were being taken out in buses. we can see one of those buses, perhaps, right now. as you look -- i'm not sure if you see the pictures, clint. what's your assess men of what you see on the camera, on the chopper camera that's following what is happening here. >> well, what you've just described now, we have got a multilevel of security. we have both private security guards that have been hired perhaps by the event itself as well as law enforce mment that' backing that up. again, this is a significant security presence that would have been on scene there. for these two men, these two shooters to be so brazen to come up and do something like this, get out of your vehicle and start shooting when any time of

reconnaissance on their part prior to this would have suggested the police presence that you have talked about. i mean this is stupid obviously, but it's also suicidal. that's what law enforcement is going to look at, what type of a mission was this these two individuals were -- that they were on. and could anybody else subscr e subscribe, could anybody else participate in that? always have to look for that potential one-two punch. i'm sure law enforcement is going to be leaning forward in the saddle as they try to evacuate or do evacuate these individuals out of here and conduct an investigation tonight. i'm sure there is a not only an investigation but a sweep going on trying to find out anyone who is connected with these two shooters, to pick them up and see what they have di may know about this. >> clint, we saw a bus going down the road leaving what appeared to be this center. we now see what is another bus that is leaving the center. again, according to garland,

texas, police, they are evacuating individuals from the center there with buses. where do these buses go? what do they do with these individuals? do they take them to another location? do they then interview each and every one of them. >> what's the normal procedure? >> in something like this, they would, they would likely take them to a secure location where they would have zpekts investigators who are there to number one establish everyone who was inside, establish, you know, what was their reason for being there. and then try to make the determination, are these individuals potential victims? were they witnesses? or could there have been, as you and i discussed, perhaps somebody on the inside? this is a time they want to make absolutely sure they have identified every person there before they start to allow them to leave. >> just also getting more information here, clint. the vehicle that those two suspects arrived in, it's being checked by -- right now by the

police department, by their bomb squad, for possible explosive devices. it's not necessarily in these pictures right now at least that we can see. what would that process be like? >> well, this is something that's going to be very slow and methodical. i mean, if the garland police have or reach out to dallas and get a bomb dog on the scene. if the bomb dog hit on anything at all there. most police departments as well as federal, atf, alcohol, tobacco and firearms would have the capability to come and deal with any type of explosive device. but, again, i think it's just a good reaction on the part of the police department if these two individuals committed what could be considered almost a suicidal attack, is there a second way that they could attack? and we've seen this before. we've seen a broad attacks with firearms followed up with explosive devices. so i think they are going

exactly what you have to do in a situation like this. but realize this starts to task any police department. you've got the ongoing crime scene. you've got the individuals that have to be interviewed. you've got the investigation that has to be connected concerning the shooters. and of course you have the potential bomb. so that police department is going to be really stretched for the next few hours. >> they are saying at the moment -- and again, we just spoke with them not too many minutes ago, probably 15 minutes ago -- the police are saying this, they don't believe there are any other suspects other than the two that were killed by the police. that could change, but that's what they are saying right now. then i also want to share with you, clinton, and our viewers here, coming from the city of garland, a statement from the -- their official facebook page saying as today's -- i'm read r verb bait im, as today's muhammad art exhibit event at

the curtis callwell center was coming to an end, two males drove up to the front of a building in a car. both males were armed and began shooting at a garland isd security officer. garland police officers engaged the gunmen, who were both shot and killed. police suspect the vehicle may contain an incendiary device and the bomb squad is on the scene. the surrounding businesses including academy sports, walmart and sam's are being evacuated. event participants are also being evacuated from the curtis callwell center, end quote. that statement from the city of garland on their facebook page. clint, those space that are being evacuated -- when we look -- it's tough to see right now, because the sun has set just within the time we were on air. when we had the broad shot from this chopper cam it seemed like the callwell center was fairly -- you know, it wasn't sitting alone by itself but it was fairly removed and had some good amount of space between any

businesses there. what's the thought in evacuating the three businesses that were described on this facebook page post? what's the strategy. >> i think you are seeing an abundance of care on the part of law enforce men. in a situation like this with what they've already seen tonight with the potential of an incendiary or an explosive device, they have to consider a worst case scenario. so they have to clear out not only the space around the vehicle it self, but they have to consider how far might that, if an explosion goes off, how far might that reach out? could it hit the other buildings? maybe at least blow glass out of the buildings, if not, you know, something much more severe. so i think in a space like that, they are doing exactly what they have to do, clear the entire area out, deal with that potential device, and then move on from there. but you know, they've got their

hands full tonight. engo, i've been out in that area. i know it is a good police department. but in a situation like this, though, when you see two individuals participating, you know, many times we are told by the director of the fbi and the cia that their greatest fear is the lone wolf. well, you know -- and i think that's true. but a lot of times we see two people that work together. it could be anywhere from a shared delusional system where they are both, as freud would say, a little crazy, and share the same idea, to two people that are related by blood, by brothers, something like this. but, again, this investigation that they are conducting, even as we speak, is going to determine what is the relationship between the two shooters. and nowadays, most people who participate in anything like this, there is a degree of planning. but there's also, with this particular target, there's likely to be a degree of information left behind by these

two shooters on the internet, on twitter accounts, social media. there is going to be something that will connect these two together, and then that will connect them to their target that law enforcement will be trying to piece together tonight. and there will be other federal agencies that will come in other than the local police department. as i say, atf will be there for the bomb. the fbi will be there for the potential hate crime. so this will be a multiagency investigation as the night goes on. >> are there any benchmarks? again, we have limited information at the moment of exactly what has happened. but based on what has been told to us by the police department there in garland, about this fair, the fair, featuring illustrations of the prophet muhammad, this following another convention or conference that was proislamic, according to what we've been told.

it seems like perhaps they were seeing one as a reaction to the other and the two groups not necessarily seeing eye to eye or agreeing with the depictions of the prophet, muhammad, are there any benchmarks that you would look to to try to understand very early on at this moment what may have happened? >> sure. i think one of the things they are going to be looking for is -- on the part of the two shooters, what have they professed in this recent past? what type of religious or political affiliation may have brought this out, and what would bring the two of them to, again, commit what appears to be a suicidal act. and i think it's going to be logical that law enforcement links these events together. but i think one of the things they are going to be looking for is was there any type of threats

against this fair that took place tonight? as you and i discussed earlier, there was a significant law enforcement presence, over $10,000 was spent in extra security. so that suggests to you and i and i'm sure to your listeners that law enforcement at least considered the possibility that this event could be targeted, could be the source of some type of irrational hate, either on the part of an individual or a group. and unfortunately, they have seen that acted out of so what they thought might take place apparently did in fact take place. the question is motivation right now. and who else, if anyone, knew about it, contributed to it, or was involved in any way. >> garland, texas, is what we are watching right now. live pictures from a chopper cam, our affiliate there in this town of what is not more than really 230,000 people. it's a very diverse town. in the last census, about 58%

white and the rest minority. it is a town that is, as i was mentioning very close, 30 minutes, right outside of texas -- a little bit northeast of downtown dallas. if you are just joining us, what we understand at the at the mo what we have heard, two men shot by police there at a cult call center in garland, texas. happening within the last several hours. what they're saying is that two suspects pulling up in a vehicle, leaving that vehicle, then shooting a security officer there. and then after that, police shooting the two suspects. both suspects die. we don't understand the motive at the moment but that's the information that we understand to have happened there. they are at least from our last call with the garland police, they were looking at the suspect's vehicle and that they were looking for an incendiary

device and then evacuating those at this fair to another location we believe in buses and we saw a bus just leave that area not too long ago. maybe about ten or 15 minutes ago. nearby high school is what we understand. and as clint was just telling us, that's when they may have further conversations to understand, what did you hear? what did you see? let me share a little bit of that. maybe you can glean something from this, clint. according to a woman that was in the parking lot, she had told us, oh, about maybe 15, 20 minutes ago, she was at the event with a friend. she said the event began around 5:40. it ended at 7:00 so it doesn't appear to be a very long event at least by her account. she and her friend left as it ended at 7:00 and then about the leave heard gunshots.

she thought they were fireworks. and then dozens of police did spring into action in her words. they started yelling. they were told to stay put. and then a second round of shooting. and then she saw police rushing toward the far end of the parking lot with their firearms drawn. so, clint, i'll stop there from her account to say, she said she heard one round and then a pause and then a second round and that might fit in at least to these early details of the way the story developed in an initial shooting and then a reaction. clint? >> yeah. i think from what we have heard so far that these two individuals got out of their vehicle and as you've told us they engaged this security officer. so that would allow for this first shot or small number of shots and then the volley of rounds could very well be the police officer responding and

that's interesting, you know, the witness that we're getting this information from suggesting, you know, her quote is dozens of police officers. so again -- >> right. >> -- that suggests a very high presence of law enforcement in a community like this, this size, they wouldn't necessarily dedicate that many resources unless they really felt something was going to happen. for the shooters to show up right at 7:00, right at the time that police were coming out, would suggest they had obviously preknowledge of the event as well as when they were coming out and maybe in their worst of worst thoughts they thought they could engage a number of people walking out the door, shoot them as they walked. you know, we saw that terrible situation in colorado a couple of years ago where an individual comes in the back door of the theater and engaging people in the theater. in this particular case, the

shooter may well have planned to commit the carnage adds people were walking out. but for whatever the reason, there appears to be a strong element of pre-planning, of pre-knowledge and perhaps of the willingness to die in an event like this. in essence, if they conducted any type of surveillance, had any knowledge of what was going on there, they would also know that there was a strong police presence that would be likely to respond once they shot the first time. obviously, that's what happened. so, again, motivation is going to be very key in looking at what caused these individuals to do it. and is there anyone else in that community who supported this effort on their part? >> you know, we were talking about that report, that police were telling kxas that $10,000 spent for additional security. with police officers and private

security. how do you plan for this? what's the structure? you know, we have some aerial views of what this building looks like. looks like large parking lots and then the center somewhat in the middle of many different parking lots. how do you defend it? what's the protocol? what's the system and the series of events that they would plan for that you might know of here, clint? >> well, there would be multiple levels of security. the security would start from inside of the facility where they'd probably do some type of sweep, even before the event took place to make sure, number one, there wasn't someone hiding inside with a weapon, there weren't explosive devices inside. and then just like a rock that you'd throw into a pond, and you start to see those ripples moving away from that rock, the security would do the same thing. law enforcement would then consider the immediate outside of the theater. they would consider the parking lot and move that security back

again. their best-case scenario was that if there was some type of obvious threat they could stop that threat before it got all the way to the theater itself. but again, that multiple layers of security was what they would have been responding on for their immediate reaction and then, of course, they would be looking for any type of intelligence, any type of overt threat, any type of chatter that came up on websites or anything like this that would indicate that there were people who were angry about this event, this cultural center, or perhaps any type of threats. again, as you and i have discussed, that abundance of concern to have so many law enforcement and security officers dedicated strongly suggests that they anticipated something could happen. unfortunately, there was, you know, a security officer shot

but it appears that law enforcement's response may well have stopped a significant amount of carnage had that security been far lighter or had the two shooters been able to get out of their vehicle and engage a lot of people as they walked out the doors without anyone able to confront them. >> and it appears here again, clint, things are fairly quiet. at least by the video that we can see after seeing those two buses leave over the course of the last 15 minutes there from the curtis culwell center there in garland, texas, around 8:45 local time. does that tell us anything? are they moving towards finishing up what they may need to do? because we are not seeing and it's at night and not seeing a lot of police vehicles, at least by flashing lights. we are not seeing what we saw

earlier which was fire department vehicles also on the scene. and ambulances. we're not seeing ambulances right now. we've been on air for about the last 30 minutes. that's not there at the moment. the fire department trucks, those are gone. and as you can see in these pictures, we do have some police presence and appears to be at intersections for command and control issues. does that tell us at all that they may have moved on to the next step? because, again, their statement was that the police department statement from the spokesperson was that they believe that it was only those two suspects, those two suspects who were killed after they had shot at a police officer. do you think that they may be at the final stages of what they may need to do on scene here, clint? >> well, i think that's an interesting statement that the law enforcement is -- believe there was no one else involved. you know, it's going to take a

level of investigation to determine did anybody else aid and assist, profeed funding, money, intelligence, anything like that. i don't think you can necessarily make that statement this quickly but we do know in general law enforcement tries to secure an area. in this particular case, as you and i have discussed, any of the possible targets or victims have been taken on those two buses. they're being interviewed at another facility. so law enforcement is comfortable who they are, what their purpose was there, what they saw. where there specific targets or individuals targeted because they happen to be at this event? and once law enforcement is comfortable there's no other targets, there's nothing else that would draw other shooters into the area, they really have a responsibility to get the community back in order as quickly as they can. get traffic moving, et cetera.

we talked earlier about a vehicle perhaps having some type of incendiary or explosive device. either they're comfortable that's no longer the case or they have been able to get the vehicle out of the area. again, there's a lot of investigation to understand who these two individuals are and what level of any support they might have had before law enforcement puts the cap on this information. >> we do have some video and i believe there's also some audio related to this, clint. and you and i can watch and listen as we play it. the event organizers, the american freedom defense initiative, they were live streaming this and then this is what happens. watch and listen carefully. we'll play that right now. >> police officer has been shot. two suspects have been shot. possibly have explosives on them. okay? that's what we're worried about right w.