tony stark of our age. >> that presenting. >> thank you both. >> that is all in for this evening. the rachel maddow show start now. >> nerdly uncomfortable wasn't a segue to me, was it? >> no. nerdly self-assured and deeply comfortable. >> obviously. >> that's what i'm talking about. >> thanks, man. appreciate it. thank you for joining us this hour. the first time a presidential debate was televised was 1960. that 1960 debate is probably still the most famous american presidential debate of all times. right? thanks mostly to the fact that richard nixon was famously -- in that debate and, therefore, a little shifty looking and john f. kennedy looked cool, calm and collected under a layer of powder foundation. that first debate was filmed in the chicago studios of cbs, but it was a join production and it was jointly broadcast by all the

tv networks at the time. that was to say landmark political moment in our country. 70 million americans watched that debate. it also changed the course of history. interesting note for that night. that night, there was a third candidate who thought he should be there on the stage with nixon and kennedy. and that third candidate pushed very, very hard to get himself on to that stage. obviously, they ultimately did not let him into that debate. but he did succeed in forcing the tv networks to give him some semblance of equal time. is his name was lar daly. he was a perennial candidate who ran basically for everything for 40 straight years, never won a thing. but in 1960, when kennedy and nixon got all the airtime, lar daly convinced the fcc that he, too, should get equal, free television time.

and they ended up giving it to him on the jack parr show on nbc. warren uncle sam, smoked a cigarette the whole time he was on the show, you want a sandwich board where you can write to him for more information or to send him campaign donations. lar daly. he was the first official pain in the butt of american televised presidential debate. from the very first one. it was a huge thing for everybody and ignoring everyone and making it all very awkward. the jack parr studio audience, that night that he got his equal time on nbc, the jack parr audience booed lar daly. and they heckled him throughout the audience. parr complained that he had to have this man on his show.

lar daly didn't give up and he told the fcc that they hadn't given him enough time to be truly equal. he demanded a further 22 minutes of television time during that election, if that election was going to be fair. lar daly was his name, perennial county and a real pain in the butt. this year, i check every day if he federal election website to see who has officially filed the paperwork to run for president for 2016. we've posted the link so you can do this yourself, as well. the link is at maddowblog.com today. you can check every day and there really are new ones every day. as of this evening, the number of people who have filed official paperwork to run for president of the united states for 2016, the number as of thyme tonight is 305. 67 people have filed to run for the republican nomination. 46 people have filed as democrats. 84 independents.

seven libertarians. there is one person, i thought of lar daly saying he runs for the nbc part party. it turns out nbc stands for the natural born citizen party, so there's somebody running on the natural born citizen ticket. and god bless the federal election commission. you can click through and you can see everyone is filing papers in addition to their name. one of the people running for the republican party is named holy savior or -- ole -- ole savior is from minnesota, filed a handwritten declaration that he or she is running. and this person has clearly -- look at the signature, clearly been practicing the signature to make it just perfect in preparation for signing all the bills into law that they will sign into law as president ole savior. this always happens. a zillion people always run to

file for president, whether it's perennial candidates like lar daly or optimistic ole savior like this guy from minnesota. it's a little jarring to see all of those zillions of people, more than 300 of them listed alongside the more familiar names that are running but they all get filed alike. there's rand paul on this list right between eugene roselle hunt jr. and wanda gayle duckwhat would. they're all running. marco rubio's papers are filed right next to jefferson woodson sherman and someone named princess khadija jacob-fambro. the name of her party is from one alien to another alien, lil wayne. princess khadija will be running her campaign from san francisco, naturally. anyone can run for president. anybody can run.

every year, just about everybody does, to a certain extent. several hundred people run. when it comes to actually running an orderly campaign, and doing things like setting up major debates, the major parties have had to deal with this to a certain degree, right? princess kadija is probably not going to make it into the presidential debates this year, no offense intended. more systemically figure out a way to make sure only the candidates with any conceivable viability make the cut and get into the primary debates. in some years, it's a larger number of conceivably viable candidates than in other years. the other cycles, we have had a few viable candidates. in 2008, the democrats thought they would have a pretty good chance of takes the white house after george h.w. bush and dick cheney. a lot of potentially viable democratic contenders.

that year, there were as many as eight people on stage on the democratic side, and that included people like barack obama and hillary clinton, but dennis kucinich. there was a guy on stage named mike gorvelle pup might remember him as the guy that did that one amazing campaign ad where he didn't say anything, he stared into the camera for a long time and threw a rock into a lake and walked away. that was his whole ad. mike grovelle, i miss you. that same year in 2008, republicans had ten people on the stage for their debates. it does make for a crowd debate stage, but there is a reason. there's a small reason to err on the side of inclusiveness. in -- here is a cautionary example. in january 2008, the fox news channel hosted a republican

primary debate in new hampshire. for that new hampshire debate, fox news decided to not invite texas congressman ron paul. this debate was after the iowa caucuses that year and ron paul had just done really well in the iowa caucus. but fox news still didn't allow him to be up on that debate stage in new hampshire just a few days later. and they did invite new york city mayor rudy giuliani even though he got about 3% of the vote in iowa. ron paul got 10% and they didn't let him in. and that decision by fox news in january of 2008, that decision by them to exclude ron paul from that debate led to this memorable scene in the streets of milford, new hampshire, where an angry mob, literally an angry mob of ron paul supporters spotted people who they thought were fox news employees in the street and the angry mob literally ran through the streets casing the fox news

people screaming fox news sucks, fox news sucks. >> fox news sucks, fox news fox news sucks. fox news sucks. cautionary tale, right? that is not a scene if you want to see if you are the fox news channel during the republican primary. people chasing your employees or people they thought were your employees yelling fox news sucks. fox news four days later, four days after that milford, new hampshire debate, hosted the next republican presidential debate, as well. they cleared learned their lesson and the next one four days later in south carolina they made sure they included ron paul. fewer angry mobs that way. so it's important, right, that anyone with any perceived viability gets to be seen in the

process. right? gets into the debate. sometimes that results in very large debates, right? you don't want ole savior and princess kadija in there. that's like you couldn't get lar daly. if you have to stretch to nine, 10, 11, 12 candidates so you can get ron paul and dennis kucinich and jim gilmore and all these guys in there, basically, the tendency has been to do it, right? that's how our system works. err on the side of inclusion. that's how our system works. until now. because this year, there is a real problem if this is going to continue to be our system. the system cannot hold this year. in the last cycle, 2012, the republican party thought they had a pretty good chance of making barack obama a one-term president. they thought they had a shot to beat him. they did not. part of that they blame on their candidate, mitt romney and the

general election campaign that mitt romney ran. but the party believes they had a flawed process in 2012 that led to choosing their nominee and that hurt the republican party's chances overall of beating president obama no matter who they chose. specifically, they think they had too many debates in 2012. the republican primary in 2012 involved almost two dozen debates. 23 debates by most counts.. and they started really early. the first major republican primary debate for the 2012 election was four years ago today. it was may 5th, 2011, they started really, really early and they kept doing them. they did almost two dozen debates and after the republicans got beat in 2012, part of their self-diagnosis of what went wrong is they had too many of these debates and it turned the primary process into a salacious reality show that made everybody look small and fringe and divisive and petty. and so the republican party in

year decided, i think, not without reason, that they wouldn't make that same mistake again. so for the 2016 cycle, the republicans announced early on in january that the official republican party would have an official republican party sanctioned short list of debates. they said any candidates who participated in any debate that wasn't on that official short list would be punished in the process. everybody can only do that short list chosen by the party. there would not be too many debates again this time. democratic party followed suit. democratic party followed there would be six democratic primary debates in total, down from 26 in 2008. the democrats set that same rule where no candidate can do a debate that isn't on the short list until they want to get punished on their primary campaign. they stepped in and said we're not going to have this again this year. democrats are going to do six debates, republicans are going to do nine debates.

in the democratic debates, so far hillary clinton and bernie sanders are the two declared candidates. it's widely assumed jim webb, martin o'malley will get in. there's a little drama there. on the republican side, though, they have a problem that calls into question the whole modern system of how we pick presidential nominees. because nobody has any idea how the republicans are going to choose who they let in their debate stage. who they let on there and who they exclude. and yes, i get it that every year a million people run. there really are more than 300 people running this year. the filings are what laborious. there are always a zillion people technically running. but every year, it's pretty obvious where the tiers are, right? it's pretty obvious where the princess kadija's, one alien to another alien, and who is conceivably viable for the

nomination. fox news ron paul notwithstanding, right, as to who makes the cut. usually you can tell. this year, how are you going to tell? this year on the republican side, the conceivably viable list has at least 22 names on it by my latest count. granted, it's a subjective count, but i don't think it's crazy. if you take the list of people not heard of making it into the debate, you've still got about 22 people. let's consider this for a second, right? mike huckabee, officially joined the race today. he won iowa in 2008. won eight states altogether that year. it was a big surprise to democrats that he didn't run in 2012. a lot of high level democrats thought mike huckabee had a really good chance of winning the republican nomination in 2012. mike huckabee has potential viability as a nominee. mike huckabee is officially in

as of today. he joins ted cruz and rand paul and marco rubio and ben carson and carly. ben carson may not be a household name nationwide, but he does have support among the republican conservative base. carly fiorina made a credible bid for a senate seat in 2012. she's never technically held public office, but she's making a serious bid. up on the list, there's the rest of the obvious list, right? jeb bush, scott walker, rick perry, chris christie, bobby jindal. south carolina senator lindsey graham has been a character for decades making more and more noise about making a serious run. ohio governor john kasich is talking about running.

rick snyder of michigan is making similar noises about running now. he will come in at about the same tier as john kasich. mike pence of indiana did have a bit of a national setback with his anti-discrimination stance last month. he is a prospect for the presidency. i understand because i know you that you laugh at the prospect of a donald trump candidacy, but donald trump, believe me, is actually hiring campaign staff in multiple early voting presidential states. and donald trump polls surprisingly well among likely republican voters. this year, the role of tim pawlenty will be played by george pataki in the sense that to the outside world he is a bit of a snooze fest, but governor pataki is well respected and well connected in republican

mainstream politics. john bolton, the angriest ambassador ever, another candidate who has a donald trump-esque laugh factor outside conservative politics. but he has a permanent seat on the fox news channel. he will be taken seriously in many republican circles, particularly foreign policy circles. even old jim gilmore is back, former governor of virginia. you will remember as the friendly potted plant on the republican primary debate stage back in 2008. looks like jim gilmore will be running again. add to that list former governor bob erlich. peter king both of whom have been doing the rounds in iowa and new hampshire and attending candidate forms and giving speeches. without trying too hard, you get easily to 22 perspective republican candidates, none of whom braid their beard hair or call themselves princess.

that's 22 noncrack pot names. 22 names. which of them get cut out this year? none of them would have been cut out in 2008 or 2012. if you rank them individually, rank them against would who did make it? seriously, how are they going to decide? time magazine's squeak miller reports today that the process is already under way quietly between republican party officials and some of the tv networks that are supposed to be airing the nine republican debates this year. typically, you use a polling threshold to decide who makes it into the first couple of the debates. but with this many people in the wedding, honestly right now nobody even know who to poll on. should they be polling on donald trump? should they be polling on john -- what was that?

that was hilarious. john kasich, is anybody polling on -- lindsey graham? will they start? if he declares he's running for president, will they poll on him? a polling threshold depends on the preferences of the pollsters in terms of who they put on the list. and the more people they put on the list the less likely any candidate will hit any reasonable threshold. the nbc poll that came out last night, a great poll, the answer not sure beat out both rick perry and carly fiorina. carly got 1%. rick perry got 2%. not sure got 3%. does that mean rick perry and carly fiorina shouldn't be allowed into the debates? that seems hard to believe. today in "time" magazine, squeak miller reports the prospects we have for the republican

candidate, one metric the party is considering using for who gets in the debate and who doesn't is money, fund-raising. which maybe is practical politics in terms of who might have a chance of getting into the white house, but it seems somehow fundamentally wrong that the literal size of your campaign bank account will determine whether or not people are allowed to consider you as a candidate for public office. running for president is a process that has always been very democratic and a little

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so interesting failures in television news, i was just talking about former virginia governor jim gilmore and we

randomly started showing a picture of kanye west which is what laborious. sometimes producing visuals for the tv is hard. i have no idea how that happened. it's not like there's going to be khan yeah west news later on in the show. i don't even know. sometimes making visuals for tv is hard. on a normal day in normal politics. therefore, pity the poor television producers who are going to have -- presidential campaign this year who are going to have to show pictures look like this, all of the viable presidential candidates and potential presidential candidates on the republican side, all the folks who have real support or real name recognition or real experience and have a shot. necessary are the serious republican contenders, 22 in all, enough to have two opposing football teams and kan kanye west will be micked in among them with nobody understanding why. would gets to stand up on the stage for the debates? how is the party going to choose?

and if that process is under way right now, what are they considering for whittling the process. jim miller is reporting on this subject. it's knight nice to have you on the program tonight. thanks for having me. thank you for having me. >> am i wrong that kanye west is running? >> it's news to me. we're at 22 running, so 23? why not? >> how about what factors they're considering for this short-term, difficult problem they've got about who gets to be in the debates? >> the obviously one is polling for the top tier, those who at 5%, 2%, 13% in the republican vote, your jeb bushes, scott walker, rand pauls, even ben carsons sort of hit that threshold. people like them and people are supporting them. you have trouble with the ten candidates in the margin of error which is usually around

3.1%. they're at zero or almost negative in a way. not how polling works out but they could be at zero. it's not possible to know what they're support is. the networks are looking at money, how much money they've raised. how many individual donors and an endorsement metric. how many members or office holders have endorsed them. usually the way these work is that they decide who they want on stage and they make the rules to fit that they back fill the rules to justify who they want on stage. >> i want to come back to the money question in a second. it rubs me the wrong way. i'm not sure why. i want to come back to that in a second. on the polling issue, what seems to me to be new this year there's also a question of people getting into the first couple of debates before there are any primary results. this year it seems like there is

new because there are so many nonobscure candidates that there's a question who makes it into the polls. i'm not sure we have a good sense of what carly fiorina's poll numbers might be. once you start polling on 20 things it's unlikely anybody is going to come in above 3 or 4%. >> exactly, and for pollsters it's a matter of tract calty. if you want to put 22 names in a poll, people hang up on you. we have both respected the ones that are live dialled. there's a humanen being on each end of the call. at a certain point people are going to hang up and don't want to give that much time to a pollster. it's hard in terms of that but then you're dealing also with that number of people and the margin of error at 3 %. they're going to be clustered

together at some point. >> on the possibility of them using money as a metric it does feel sort of anti-democratic with a small d to consider that even though we know money is part of a candidate's viability. are they talking about campaign donations? is it donations to super pacs in support of a candidate, or other interest groups that would seem to be pushing for the candidates? >> it's not entirely clear both sort of the party and the networks are being very tight-lipped about this. they don't want to reveal too much about the process so it's not influenced. they are potentially shying away from the bulge dollar amount raised. you need x number of dollars raised from y number of donors across the country and so you

can't get one big check from a super pac donor. you need to show that people like you on a sustained basis so you can develop a network. it's hard to collect $2700 checks. it's easy to collect $2700 check. a lot harder to collect a lot of $100 checks. if you can't get those, how do you collect the $500 checks you need to go up against the rest of the field and hillary clinton. >> and who wants to give $100 when you know you're competing with a candidate who's being given $100 million. this is an important subject. thanks for your reporting. >> thank you for having me on. >> i think this is a sleeper issue. not because people don't pay attention to the debates. i don't think people realize this vetting is going on right

now and it could determine who the field of candidates is. it's a big deal. lots more ahead. stay with us. i love making sunday dinners. but when my back hurt, cooking all day... forget about it. tylenol was ok, but it was 6 pills a day. but aleve is just 2 pills all day. and now, i'm back! aleve. taxi. vo: after years of being treated like she was invisible it occurred to mindy she might actually be invisible. ♪♪ but mindy was actually not invisible. ooh, what are you doing? can you see me? she had just always been treated that way. yeah. you don't have to look at me like that. there are worst things than an attractive woman touching your body. i'll go. join the nation that sees you as a priority. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ success starts with the right connections. introducing miracle-gro liquafeed universal feeder. turn any hose connection into

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in july. you can blame jet blue when that starts happening this summer. today jet blue included this photo in their daily news which is the employee newsletter they send out every day by e-mail. it shows hillary clinton with the jet blue crew on a flight she took with them today. and hillary clinton did not go to havana on that flight with jet blue but she went back somewhere today to make a big change from her political past. big news from secretary hillary clinton tonight. that's next. stay with us. what's that? it's a swiffer wetjet. i can just grab this and just go right to the mess. that comes from my floor? now that's disgusting. i want friends over! you want friends over? ♪ (music plays throughout) ♪ the pursuit of healthier. it begins from the second we're born. after all, healthier doesn't happen all by itself. it needs to be earned... every day...

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november 15th, 2007 seven democrats vying for the position of president. this was one of the debates where the moderator ran part of the debate like he was taking attendance. he went down the line asking every candidate the same yes or no question. no explanations just yes or no. >> do you support driver's licenses for illegal immigrants? if. >> if we don't have? >> in the absence of comprehensive immigration reform. do you support driver's licenses for illegal immigrants? >> no. >> senator obama? yes or no. >> yes. >> senator clinton? >> no. >> senator balm yes. >> senator clinton? no. >> the day before the debate she issued a statement on the issue.

she said as president i will not support driver's licenses for undoumt documented people. that was eight years ago. times have changed. she does think that undocumented immigrants should be able to get driver's licenses and tonight back in nevada she went all in in the immigration issue. going right at the entire republican field on this issue saying that she supports what president obama has done already on immigration and if she were president, she would not only fight republican efforts to roll the policies back she would expand them by executive action if necessary. >> we can't wait any longer for a path to full and equal citizenship. this is where i differ with everybody on the republican side. make no mistakes. today, not a single republican candidate announced or potential, is clearly and

consistently supporting a path to citizenship, not one. when they talk about legal status that is code for second-class status. i will fight to stop partisan attacks on the executive actions that would put dreamers including those with us today at risk of deportation. and if congress continues to refuse to act as president, i would do everything possible under the law to go even further. there are more people like many parents of dreamers and others with deep ties and contributions to our communities who deserve a chance to stay and i will fight for them. >> i will fight for them. secretary clinton back in nevada tonight. calling out the whole republican presidential field for none of them supporting a pathway to citizenship. showcasing not only her own

evolution on this issue but how much republicans have slid back on this issue over the past few years. this is starting to get exciting. watch this space. ♪ during its first year, a humpback calf and its mother are almost inseparable. she lifts her calf to its first breath of air, then protects it on the long journey to their feeding grounds. one of the most important things you can do is help the next generation. at pacific life, we offer financial solutions to accomplish just that. ask a financial advisor about pacific life. the power to help you succeed.

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cabinet secretary on this show but that's what we've got tonight for the interview. seriously. stay with us. that's next. these days you may be hearing more about data breaches in the news. it's possible your personal information may be at risk. research shows that if your information is compromised due to a data breach you are 6 times more likely to become a victim of identity theft. now is the time to get protection. sign up today and lifelock will begin monitoring your personal information, including your social security number alert you about suspicious activity

and if needed, take steps to help restore your losses. you only have one identity. protect it with the best. lifelock. ♪ the network that monitors her health. the secure cloud services that store her genetic data. the servers and software on a mission to find the perfect match. and the mom who gets to hear her daughter's heart beat once again. we're helping organizations transform the way they work so they can transform the lives of the people they serve. huh, 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. everybody knows that. well, did you know that game show hosts should only host game shows? samantha, do you take kevin as your lawfully wedded husband... or would you rather have a new caaaaaar!!!! say hello to the season's hottest convertible... ohhh....and say goodbye

to samantha. [ male announcer ] geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more. on monday of last week the southeast got pounded by severe thunderstorms. winds up to 70 miles per hour. it was a mess. in the midst of the big storm the local news reporter in louisiana captured this incredible scene. they were trying to ride out the storm at a local restaurant. he parked the van near the entrance but he kept the camera on his dashboard rolling. look what it captured. take a look at the train rolling on the tracks. do you see that? look at that. the winds from the storm knocked those train cars right off the track, right off the bridge the train was passing over at the time. amazing. incredibly, nobody was hurt. that happened last monday in

louisiana. that was monday. this was tuesday. in new mexico two freight trains one carrying sand the other one carrying molasses. somebody did get killed in this collision in new mexico. two crew members in one of the train engines jumped to try to save their lives when they realized the collision was going to happen. one of those got blown off the bridge in louisiana the day before. they realized the collision was going to happen. one of the two crew members who jumped was killed. that same day we also got brand new images of a big train accident that happened in north dakota. this was the view from a train carrying cars full of grain. that was traveling through a town in north dakota. there is another train

approaching on a track. here's the from that train just before it hit the train it was speeding toward. just before it slammed into a derailed car that had tipped over from the grain train onto the track. you can see the other train is about to hit that one car that has tipped over and slumped onto the aji sent track. that was the results of that collision. it was a fire ball that lit up the sky. it forced the evacuation of the entire town. that fire in castle ton burned for days. the train started blowing up. the dispatcher asked the engineer if she needed to call the local fire department. tension near responded, coat you need to call every fire department. one oil train after a another as derailed and blown up across the country and we've been expecting new rules, new federal rules

telling the oil industry what to do to make the oil trains safer. we've been waiting for a year and now they've arrived. transportation secretary anthony fox was announced new rules at a press conference in washington. he unveiled an order that covers everything from how thick the walls of the tanks need to be to the types of braking systems these cars must have. it's an expansive order from the obama administration, but the order also does not go nearly as far as many people had hoped. for example, that oil train in castle ton north dakota included the do it 11. we've talked about the repeated failures of that kind of car. the do it 111 was also involved

in a derailment in quebec. under the new rule that specific tank car involved in these derailments which has a repeated record of failure, that specific tank car under the new rules can stay on the tracks for three more years. this is the tank car model the oil industry upgraded to. it's seen here going up in flames and dumping its contents in lynchburg, virginia. that newer tank was involved in problems in west virginia and illinois earlier this year. under the new rule that specific tank car involved in these derailments can stay on the rails even longer. it can stay on the rails until april 2020. they eventually have to be retro fitted but they can stay on the tracks for years in the meantime. one other thing to note.

after that oil train disaster in rinchburg, the transportation required information being given to local communities when they were moving through their areas. that requirement led to a spate of local news articles over the past year about how many oil trains were moving through your particular city or town. local newspapers were able to inform the public. states were forced to turn it over through the freedom of information act. the oil industry tried to prevent it but the states had to come ply with the record requests, so we got the local news. the new rule says the information has to be shared with first responders but it's no longer available to the public. the new rule says the information is proprietary to the companies shipping the fuel. now you're no longer allowed to know what is shipping through your town and when. there's a lot of good in these new rules. this is the first time the

federal government has tried to do anything this big to fix this problem but is this it? is this all we're going to get? this as a potential solution seems smaller than the existing problem. the man who is signature appears at the bottom of these papers joins us live, next. there is an ancient rhythm... [♪] that flows through all things... through rocky spires... [♪] and ocean's swell... [♪] the endless... stillness of green...

[♪] and in the restless depths of human hearts... [♪] the voice of the wild within. anthony foxx has just announced the long awaited new federal rules aimed at making

oil trains less likely to derail and blow up in a town near you. joining us now is our transportation secretary anthony foxx. thank you for being with us tonight. >> glad to be with you. >> i know you saw my introduction a moment ago, and i'm delighted that there are new federal rules. i am worried they are federal rules that leave what seems like dangerous tanker cars for three or five more years without much improvement. >> the first thing one has to realize is our department doesn't control whether things move but how they move. one of the challenges we face here is that you could see more of this stuff moving on your highways if we don't tighten up our tank car standards. we think this is the right rule for the right time right now, and we're moving as quickly as we can prioritizing the least safe tank cars first.

the crude oil movements first and making sure we're doing everything we can to get these cars in the marketplace as quickly as possible. we have to recognize they have to be made and retro fitted and we've got to make sure we account for the time that it will take to do that. >> the least safe cars that you are considering there, the older standards, was it within your power or under consideration to ban them from carrying crude oil in a shorter term basis in they're on the rails until 2018. >> we are banning them. but we have to cycle them out of the market and to also be clear, if we took them off the marketplace tomorrow we would see more trucks carrying this crude oil and that also presents dangers. we have to deal with the fact that the stuff is moving and do everything we can to make it move as safely as possible, and

our rule is calibrated to get there faster than many manufacturers think they can get there in terms of producing new tank cars. >> one of the changes under this rule that i didn't expect was about the information that people can get access to and that local media can get access to about high volume oil trains rolling through their neighborhood. the general public is going to have less access to that now than they do already. why was that change made? >> one of the challenges we faced with the current emergency order that requires reporting a different way is that first responders weren't getting access to the comprehensive information they need and they weren't getting that information as directly as they needed to. this rule corrects that issue, and, again, while a lot of the information, classified information for security reasons, to the state that they

desire produce more information to the public they will have some discretion to do that based on whether the information is classified or not. >> i want first responders to have all the information they need and more but i also feel like this is a political issue. obviously there's a lot of politics around the safety of pipelines and the keystone pipeline. you've raised the issue of the safety of this stuff on the roads. we've been talking about the safety of it on the rails. there are a lot of strong feelings on this as we've started moving more domestic oil around. if the public has less access to this information, that's going to affect not only what we know and what we might do to keep ourselves safe but the level of public discourse, isn't it? >> our goal is to ensure as much transparency as pob. there are a lot of other equities at play here including the security of the material that is moving and some of that actually belongs to some of the other federal agencies in terms

of their discretion to class fie information. but let me say that to the extent that information does not pose a security risk of course the state and local governments will continue to be able to contribute that information as they choose to. >> i appreciate you taking time to talk with us. we cover this a lot. having the chance to talk with you about it is a real privilege. it's interesting. looking at what i see as some of the weaknesses of the rule the oil industry says they're going to fight it. it will be interesting to see as the administration fights for this rule. with all of its weaknesses, they're going to have to fight with it against rich industries who say it's pushing them too much. there will be a big fight on this. lots more ahead. including a diversion involving where you are allowed to put

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