two officer. bond for bank's brother was set at $100,000. a fourth suspect, cornelius clark, was charged with rendering criminal assistance. none of the suspects have entered pleas. "the ed show" is coming up next. good evening, americans. welcome to "the ed show." live from washington, d.c. i'm michael eric dyson in for ed schultz. let's get to work. >> tonight, under fire. >> i didn't say the "n" word. plus backing his brother on iraq. >> would you have authorized an invasion? >> i would have. >> later -- >> warning in mississippi. >> officers benjamin dean and la corey tate were shot in cold blood. >> they made the ultimate sacrifice. and the first lady gets personal. >> the chatter. the name calling. the doubting. all of it was just noise.

it did not define me. it didn't change who i was. >> the principal at an alternative school in georgia is facing criticism after she made a racially charged mark at the school's graduation ceremony. tnt academy principal nancy gord gorduke became upset after some people began leaving early. >> that speech was not put in the program, so people started talking and leaving. she has caused outrage with her comments. she told nbc news her side of the story earlier today. >> my side is i'm not a racist.

i didn't know "black people" was a racist term. i didn't say the "n" word or anything like that, because that's not in my vocabulary. what happened was at graduation the valedictorian was introduced to give his speech and a man, who just happened to be black, came up in front of us, in front of the podium and was going back and forth doing selfies with the kids and interrupting the valedictorian. therefore disrespect to that student, and when i called security in i asked the man to please sit down. he did not. he just continued. i called security. when they came in the audience booed. of course, it's going to be young kids because they were getting a kick out of this guy and being disrespectful. i said you're being rude and disrespectful to this young man. when i looked left the light, as you know, lights in the auditorium, you look left all i say were black people getting up and leaving. and i said oh look who's

leaving, all the black people. so, i made a statement. it wasn't a racist remark. anybody that knows me knows my heart is with these kids. i've been teaching 30-something years. >> gorduek also responded to reaction over her comments. >> people always think the worst. you know, oh you say the word black, you know was i supposed to say african-american? were they all born in africa? no they're americans. and they live here. but i'm not a racist. people that know me -- i worked with disadvantage kids like this that couldn't get through school. we help them get a high school diploma and we've been doing it for 15 years. and our heart's in it. we're not against anyone and i've never disrespected anyone. >> gorduek has apologized to her students and their families. she wrote an apology letter

saying, "frustrated with the prospect of ruining the once-in-a-lifetime ceremony, the graduates have worked so hard for, my emotions got the best of me and that is why i blurted out, you people are being so rude to not listen to this speech. i deeply apologize for my actions made in the emotional state of trying to let this last student finish his speech." gorduek told nbc news she might take a leave of absence following the incident. get your cell foepphones out. do you believe nancy gorduek's excuse for her comments? go to pulse.msnbc.com/ed to cast your vote. i'll bring you the results later on this the show. for more let me bring in sarah dollof of msnbc. how is the community reacting to this incident that happened at the graduation? >> reporter: good evening, dr. dyson. community reaction poured in fast and furious once those recordings of those comments went viral and she is facing a

lot of criticism, both here in stone mountain georgia, where that school is headquartered, to all across the country. gorduek tells us she's, in fact received hundreds of angry e-mails and so far these apologies she's offered, for a lot of people they don't seem to be hitting the mark. those people upset not only about the racially charged remark, but also about her behavior throughout the entire ceremony. people tell us she was acting oddly from the very beginning, making individual personal comments about garage with thes as they walked across the crowd, oftentimes not very flattering calling that young man who stepped forward to take photo and video with his ipad a coward, among other things. the aunt of one of the graduates put it to me thusly this event is memorable for all the wrong reasons. >> absolutely. is it the case that some have indicated that she's had a history of racially insensitive remarks made? >> reporter: the parents that i spoke to of the graduates didn't

comment on any racial past. the people i spoke to their students had had positive remarks about the school in general and their experience there. you've got to keep in mind that this is an alternate type school. this isn't your traditional 7:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. where students come for set periods and set classes doing the same thing every day. in fact, a lot of these students are on independent study type courses so they may not have the kind of contact with administrators that students in a traditional public school might have. >> sure. any idea what will happen to gorduek now? >> reporter: it's also a tricky situation once again, because this is not a typical public school. we did talk to her this morning. she said she is considering a leave of absence. she is considering appointing an interim principal, perhaps taking a vacation. she does vow here that her work here at tnt academy will go on. she did found this school. she has a 30-plus-year teaching history. >> all right, thank you so much for your time tonight.

for more let me bring in dante lambert, a graduate at friday's ceremony, and his mother who was also at the ceremony. dante, what was your initial reaction when you heard principal gorduek make those remarks that seemed to incense the crowd? >> well at first, i was shocked. i was really shocked. i never heard somebody be so bold in front of a crowd of people like that. i mean i personally knew ms. nancy say some remarks that's a little off putting like the remark she made earlier about the babies but i never thought she would say something like that to a crowd of people. >> when you hear her respond, that look, should i have called them african-americans, or were they born in africa and the like does it indicate some kind of insensitivity on her part? it wasn't the fact that she called them black, it was the point that she pointed them out

as the only people leaving. she doesn't seem to get it. is this something you think is typical of what you might think in regard to race? have you seen other indications that she was that insensitive? >> i'm sorry, i couldn't really understand the question but -- >> i'm just saying has she indicated before that she was insensitive to issues of race? >> not race particularly but she has said she would make remarks to me personally. not racist but she has made remarks that wouldn't shock me. >> ms. forman what was the mood in the crowd after she made her remarks? >> well 30 minutes into the ceremony, she made the comment about taping the babies' mouth shuts or removing them from the crowd. so that was the very first thing that kind of agitated the crowd. that was one of the reasons why i, you know decided to videotape the ceremony.

the crowd was very agitated. it was just a weird environment. we were just trying to sit through it get it done you know see the kids walk across and, you know, be done with it. >> right. so ms. forman principal gorduek said she didn't mean her comments to be racist. do you buy her story? >> not one bit. the reason i feel like that is because i have had conversations with nancy before. she's a very angry, bitter woman. she's never smiling. never happy to see anybody. very negative demeanor period. she's made comments to me and dante about, you know he's working and why is he paying his tuition late and things of that nature. she's always digging in someone's business. so her apology does not -- it doesn't sit well with me. it doesn't seem genuine.

she's trying to cover up the fact that if she would have just be quiet or let the guy start his speech none of this would have never happened. >> sure. so donte, she apologized to all the students. do you accept her apology? >> no, not at all. i've actually been nice to ms. nancy through this whole situation. the whole time we were attending her school i've been having problems with her nonstop. no one else but ms. nancy. she would make remarks to me. i would always tell me mom, you know, ms. nancy said this and that. >> what kind of things would she say to you? >> say, if i would pay tuition two or three days late because of when i get paid she would come in and be like oh you have on really nice shoes i don't see what's the problem with you paying. you're working hard. at least that's what you're telling us. why aren't you paying on time? it's not like i would pay late every time. once or twice or maybe a day or two late and she would make it a big deal. she would talk to me bad in front of people.

you're paying this time. oh, you're paying on time today. >> in light of those demeaning remarks, what do you think should happen to principal gorduek? >> well i've got mixed thoughts about that. i feel like when you're in a teaching field, you're supposed to be more positive. you know more bright. happier. like i said i don't think she needs to run a school per se. i would never suggest going to her school. and we really decided to put donte into that school at the last minute and it wasn't because he was a troubled kid and couldn't get through regular high school. it was the point of we had heard good things about her school from shiloh. so that's the reason why we put him in there. >> wow. >> and, you know someone made a comment about she's taken the kids in and these kids aren't struggling. it's not just that.

we pay money just like every other student. we paid her over $3,000 in tuition. and it's not that she's just really helping them to graduate. well we're paying. it's a private academy. that's what they're there to do. she doesn't spend no time with the kids there. donte didn't want to interact with her at all. he goes in there and goes straight to the other administrators because she's so negative. i don't think she needs to be teaching or in the education field at all. >> okay. so she should be removed. donte, is this what you're going to remember of all the sights and sounds of your graduation? is this the very incident that will stand out to you? >> oh most definitely, because i made sure i put pressure on my family to come down here and see me and for them to witness this action is very embarrassing to me and my decision on where i attended school. i was very embarrassed based on the remarks she made. my family was very upset. and i worked really hard to get

them down here and to make them proud. and this is what they're presented with. >> right. we hope certainly that your college will be you know less colorful and more productive for you than your high school. thank you so much for your time tonight. >> no problem, thank you. >> thank you. remember to answer tonight's question at pulse.msnbc.com/ed. we'll have the results later in the show. coming up, meet the new bush. same as the old bush. jeb takes a page from his brother's playbook on foreign policy. and later, we'll have the latest details out of mississippi where four suspects face charges in the death of two police officers. stay tuned.

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we're following some breaking news from florida. george zimmerman was involved in a shooting incident earlier today. just a short time ago, lake mary florida police held a news conference. >> at this time it appears that

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get an escape with zero percent financing for sixty months plus seven-fifty cash if you own a ford or qualifying competitive vehicle. welcome back to "the ed show." a former cia deputy director says isis is ready and able to launch a 9/11-like attack. michael morell told "usa today," if we don't get isis under control, we're going to see that kind of attack. morell was with george w. bush in 2001 when he was told a plane had crashed into the world trade center. he was also in the white house when president obama got news navy seal team 6 had killed osama bin laden. morell gave a staunch warning. >> i think it was a mistake to have the perception that al qaeda died along with bin laden. >> meanwhile, george w. bush's kid brother says he would have authorized the 2003 iraq war also. jeb bush told fox news the

intelligence provided to his brother's administration left him with no choice but to invade. >> knowing what we know now, would you have authorized the invasion? >> i would have and so would have hillary clinton, just to remind everybody and so would have almost everybody that was confronted with the intelligence they got. >> you don't think it was a mistake? >> in retrospect the intelligence that everybody saw, that the world saw, not just the united states, was faulty. and in retrospect once we invaded and took out saddam hussein, we didn't focus on security first. the iraqis in this incredibly insecure environment turned on the united states military because there was no security for themselves and their families. >> joining me now is colonel lawrence wilkerson, retired united states army colonel, former chief of staff to secretary of state colin powell and adjunct professor at the college of william and mary. sir, is jeb bush trying to box in hillary clinton with this

question slyly doing an in-run around her? >> i think he was trying to get out of his answer himself. you know, i flirted with the idea of returning to my party, at least for this presidential election and perhaps even voting for jeb because i thought he was a pretty rational person. but this kind of comment coming from him without any more context is sort of like john mccain's moment when he picked sarah palin to be his vice president, or mitt romney's moment when he more or less disqualified half of the american people for any merit. it's not a good moment. >> so your reaction to jeb bush saying he would have authorized the 2003 iraq war also what do you make of that? besides what you just said is it also trying to retro actively justify what his brother did as well? >> it is. there's no question about that. and i understand familial feelings, but it's also a

statement of gross error, in my regard because the intelligence was fixed. and everyone should know that the intelligence was fixed by now. yes, it was a failure of the cia, but it was also a failure of the political people who manipulated that intelligence failure to their own benefit. and it destroyed the balance of power in the gulf and produced what we have today. the chaos that we have today. al qaeda in iraq. never there until we invaded. isis, never there until we invaded. the mess we have in yemen. everything that's happening in the middle east today can be attributed to us having destroyed the balance of power that we carefully maintained for half a century with the invasion in 2003. it was a disaster. >> you indicated earlier that you had been flirting with the idea of returning to your party. anybody on the republican side would make you do more than flirt, maybe have a little look-see, maybe have a little

courtship with them? >> good question. i was just in new hampshire. looked at the 19 who had paid a thousand dollars and obviously think they're going to start the race, at least with new hampshire, maybe iowa maybe south carolina. and i looked at that list and i said ted cruz marco rubio, mike huckabee, jeb bush and so forth. the only name that even came close to resonating with me was jeb bush which is why i say, you know if he keeps making remarks like this i'm going to wind up not voting again for a republican candidate for the white house. >> a senate intelligence committee report said the bush administration presented intelligence as fact when it was unsubstantiated. so why would jeb cite intelligence as a reason for his answer? >> that's my gravest concern. anyone who studied the matter

since 2004-2005. when more than ample information has been made available to historians, to professors like me and to others anyone doing the research knows that the situation was not simply an intelligence failure. it was also manipulation of that failure and that bad intelligence by political people. by the people in the highest levels of policymaking. the president, the vice president, and others. so i don't see how anyone can make that statement today unless they're trying to you know cover up or make things look better for another member of the family when they shouldn't be made to look better. >> sure. so what's your reaction to mike morell saying isis is ready and able to launch a 9/11-style attack? >> i'm a little down on mike morell right now having looked at his book and seeing the many half-truths and untruths. and in fact outright lies contained in that book. i don't know whether it was because he wanted to sell the become and make it more dramatic

or whether he really believes those things or whether he made some of it up. but his comments about isis also are a little bit disturbing. i don't dismiss them as a threat, but we have about a chance in america equivalent to a lightning strike hitting us to be killed by an isis terrorist or for that matter any other terrorist. that's what the statistics show. we spent somewhere between 2 and $4 trillion. it's about time we dealt with it in the reasonable sane way and quit this hyperventilation over it. >> colonel, thank you so much for joining us here tonight. >> thanks for having me doctor. still to come the police department's history of injustice comes to light. more deadly storms hit the middle of the country this weekend. we'll have an update from the ground next. stay tuned.

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show." the heartland is recovering from a weekend of severe storms. the storm systems that stretched from south dakota to texas and as far east as ohio is being blamed for at least six deaths. several people are still unaccounted for after a possible tornado touched down just east of dallas in van, texas. heavy rain caused flash floods in texas, prompting the state's national guard to activate to rescue residents. nbc correspondent jay gray has more on the cleanup. >> this time the wind and water targeted north texas. >> it was all of a sudden. i mean, there was nothing you could do even if you saw it coming. it was a matter of minutes. >> reporter: just minutes for the violent storms to strike leaving behind a path of destruction that's changed lives here forever. at least two people are dead. more than 40 injured and several are still unaccounted for after a tornado ripped through the small town of van. >> approximately 30% of the city of van has suffered dangs. >> reporter: trees and power lines snapped.

some homes completely wiped away. >> this is something you only see in movies. seeing where these homes stood. they're not there anymore. >> reporter: in krum north of dallas driving rains. in some areas nearly four inches an hour too much water too fast in neighborhoods quickly swallowed by flash floods. >> it's a very erie feeling to be completely out of control. you could stand there and watch everything being just taken away. >> reporter: texas national guard choppers rushed in pulling a half dozen residents to higher ground, including melissa and her 5-month-old baby girl. >> i was scared but i knew she was going to be okay. >> reporter: safe, on solid ground, and like so many in the strike zone now dealing with the mess mother nature left behind. >> joining me now from van, texas, is nbc correspondent jay gray. so, jay, how are the communities dealing with the devastation visited upon them? >> reporter: obviously a very rough go. a lot of people turning out to try and help out those who have

been hit the hardest. and we just learned, michael, from the national weather service, it was an ef-3 tornado with winds of 135 to 140 miles an hour that ripped through this small town. what's that do? i want to show you firsthand. first of all, this is an-and-ing from a play area that was ripped away from that spot about 100 yards away here. you find these shingles from rooftops all over the place here. if you move back towards the school administration building see a tree limb and those are much larger examples of that across the area. shattered glass, splintered wood everywhere. this is the kind of thing we've been talking about. not only here but across tornado alley after what's been six days of violent storms. it has been a tough go going to continue to be. there is more severe weather, unfortunately, in the forecast. >> are there any federal government resources and local resources that are helping those who have been affected? >> reporter: both. we've seen both teams on the

ground, both the federal teams and local government as well as state of texas teams that are here. just trying first of all to get people a place to stay for the fight, and many here stay with either family or friends. a very tight knit community. but then they try to establish what to do moving forward, making sure they have food and clothing. a lot of people in the flooding got out with absolutely nothing. they were pulled to higher ground by those helicopters. so they're basically starting from scratch, michael. >> so jay, will this region finally be getting a break from these strong storms? they've been really buffetted there. >> reporter: the good news is the or thetor: con looks like it's going to drop the next couple of days. the only problem is this rain. we expect more heavy rain. it's in an area that can't take it much more. they have suffered with the drought for a long time. a lot of the lakes are full or near full and now they're getting more rain than they need. >> all right, jay gray, thanks for joining us.

stick around, the rapid response panel is next. stay tuned. i'm josh lipton with your cnbc market wrap. stocks end the day lower. the dow falls 85 points. the s&p 500 is off ten. and the nasdaq sheds nine. a deal to tell you about in the oil industry. noble industry will buy rosetta resources for just over $2 billion in stocks. the news sent rosetta's shares up 27%. shares of sotheby's finished higher after earnings that beat estimates. revenue was also better than expected thanks to higher commissions. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. about a biologic... this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira giving me new perspective. doctors have been prescribing humira for ten years. humira works for many adults.

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welcome back. we will have breaking news on tom brady in just a bit. but first, hattiesburg mississippi is mourning the death of two officers tonight. four suspects have been arrested in connection with the fatal shooting on saturday night. chris polone has the latest. >> reporter: hattiesburg, mississippi, a city in mourning thach they paused to remember the two police officers. la corey tate wanted to be a cop since he was 4 years old. the two were shot and killed saturday night. >> it is with a heavy heart that we mourn the heroes taken away from us too suddenly and far too soon. >> reporter: police say they stopped a car for speeding saturday and called for backup. when tate arrived, both were shot. the suspects stole one of the police cars as passersby discovered and tried to help the officers. police arrested four people who made their first appearance in court monday.

marvin banks is charged with capital murder. curtis banks and jody call way are charged with being accessories after the fact. cornelius clark is charged with rendering criminal assistance. the mother of marvin and curtis banks insists curtis wasn't involved and says her other son was on drugs when the shooting happened. why do you think marvin did this? >> i don't know. just out of his mind. he was out of his mind. >> reporter: the service coincides with the start of national police week and washington's fallen officers memorial, people could only shake their heads at the news two more have paid the ultimate sacrifice. >> it's terrible. it's happening far too often. >> reporter: as hattiesburg prepares to bury two of its finest people here are left wondering why it came to this. >> meanwhile, baltimore is still healing after friction between its community and police. a rally for peace concert on sunday night included the headline performance from prince and an appearance from the state's attorney marilyn mosby. the city says it's ready to

welcome back the birds. the orioles were ordered to play their last game in an empty stadium during citywide unrest. tonight they're looking forward to seeing fans and the crowd for the first time since april. but reports of negligent police practices continue. while examining the case of freddie gray who was fatally injured while unrestrained in a police van, a "baltimore sun" survey found that police transport vans routinely do not contain seat belts. the sun also uncovered a history for disregarding injuries among people in police custody. since 2012 nearly 26 hundred injured detainees did not receive medical care. we reached out to the baltimore police for comment but have not received a response. joining me now is our rapid response panel, pastor jamal bryant of empowerment temple ministries and paul henderson, veteran prosecutor and legal analyst. welcome to the show. >> thank you. >> thanks for having us. >> pastor brian, you've emerged as an articulate leader on the national level, but also for paying attention to boil.

give us a sense of what the mood in baltimore is right now. >> i think that we're in post ops. that you can still feel the residue of the surgery. we're still in pain but we see recovery. there are bright spots all over the city. people have cleaned up in large measure, but there's still bated breath with expectation, so that america or the state of maryland doesn't confuse or peace for becoming idle. we're still waiting to see what is going to happen because we refuse to believe that an indictment is averted. >> mr. henderson, the police officers charged in the death of freddie gray want the charges dismissed. how do you handicap their chances? >> well it doesn't look -- i read the documents that they filed with the court. it's a 24-page document outlining their request. either to have the charges dismissed or for the state's attorney to recuse herself and have an independent prosecutor assigned to the case.

they cite a number of legal arguments, including the nature of the charges, being the foundation for all charges. but it doesn't speak to the bigger picture that we have in this case, where at the end of the day, freddie gray is still dead as a result of something. and so they make a lot of broad arguments talking about the state attorney's relationship both with her husband and also with her chief deputy in this case. you know, one of the things i think that they fail to recognize that i presume that a court will recognize with a response to these charges is that prosecutors are given why discretion in terms of how cases get charged, and so i'm not overly optimistic that either of those results that were being asked for from the defense are beginning to be heard and recognized from the court, and that's either the dismissal or the independent prosecutor

assigned. i think it's fairly interesting legal argument. but, you know prosecutors are always given wide berth to make the charging decisions that they make. and oftentimes it comes at such an early stage in a case. certainly there are discrepancies that are built into or allowed into those arguments. but i'm not overly optimistic that that's exactly what's going to happen in this case. >> so, pastor bryant give us a sense of the businesses, if they're recovering and draw back a bit and give us a kind of -- not an autopsy, but you talk about a post-op, at least an assessment of how the patient is doing in the future. >> absolutely. to your first question the city council is meeting in just about an hour. i'm leaving here to go there, to give some kind of assessment of the fiscal damage. it is an humble estimate. about $25 million worth of

damage on the city. what is very critical is the riot or the uprising that happened in 1968 after the assassination of dr. king cost d.c. $113 million in '68 to rebuild. in baltimore in 2015 you're talking about $25 million. the focal point of the uprising in baltimore has been one store. a vcvs store. whereas the uprising that happened in los angeles in 1992 you're talking about blocks. and so really comparatively, it's a very small number. but it's been blown grossly out of proportion. what it really says to is how much disenfranchisement is taking place, that they could only find one anchor store in that neighborhood and in that community. and that's what the community is crying out, almost like freddie gray did in the back of that police vehicle to no aid, no assistance.

we need jobs, we need business, we need opportunities. the police union here is moving vehemently trying to remove attorney mosby from the case. but the reality is the prosecutor's job is to do that to prosecute. yur you're not supposed to be non-partial. but when the police feel as if, in the words of malcolm x, the chickens are coming home to roost, when they're trying to find somebody else that's partial in their side. in the last ten years, only 12 police officers have had full prosecution. i think what america is crying out is if there's going to be justice, if there's going to be a penal system it should not just be tinted and tailored just to african-americans, but blue people are going to have to be just as accountable as black people. >> there's no doubt about that. jamal bryant and paul henderson, we thank you so much for joining us here this evening. >> thank you. >> thanks for having us.

we have some break news on tom brady. we want to turn to that right now to discuss with our viewers here what is going on. so we'll come back with this breaking news on tom brady after this break. sal khan: khan academy is a not-for-profit, with a mission of providing a free world-class education for anyone anywhere. if you look at a khan academy video, they can cover everything from basic arithmetic to calculus, trigonometry, finance. the nfl has penalized the new england patriots following last week's deflate-gate report. tom brady will be suspended without pay for the first four

games of the 2015 season for conduct detrimental to the integrity of the nfl. brady will also be able to participate in training camp and preseason games. the nfl is also penalizing the patriots for violating rules and failure to comply with the subsequent investigation. the patriots will be fined $1 million and forfeit their first round 2016 draft pick. they will also be forced the forfeit their fifth round pick in 2017. joining me by phone is terrence moore, national columnist for sports on earth. terrence, this is pretty remarkable, because all of the people who were handicapping this were saying look maybe give them two games. some said on the outer edge, if they give them four games, tom brady and the new england patriots will then argue against that and then it will be reduced to two games. what do you think is going on here? is this going to be absolute? will it stand? or do you think the patriots will come back and try to appeal? >> i think there's good news here and there's bad news. the good news is they actually

did something. and i am somewhat shocked that they did something and they did something pretty significant here. you start taking away a first round draft pick, that's nothing to ignore and to suspend the great -- his almighty tom brady for four games, i mean that's a miracle in itself. here's the bad news. they didn't go far enough. you cannot suspend tom brady without suspending bill belichick. these two guys are attached at the hip. bill belichick being the coach and guru of the new england patriots. and remember now, back in 2007 for spy-gate when they were nailed for that, the thing that roger goodell said emphatically he said that bill belichick is the new england patriots. he should be aware and is aware of everything that goes on in that organization. you can't say that back then, and all of a sudden come up with

this report and claim that bill belichick and everybody else in the hierarchy is innocent. >> the ted wells report suggested it was more likely than not that tom brady was involved, but it also exonerated, if you will bill belichick and mr. kraft, the owner of the new england patriots. are you suggesting that the ted wells report did not do due diligence? to suggest that there's a relationship between them, or are you suggesting based on history that bill belichick must have known what was going on? >> well, i go with both. and let's just go with something that just recently happened. just a few weeks ago, the nfl nailed the atlanta falcons for pumping illegal crowd noise into the georgia dome. and after the investigation, they said that rich mckay the president of the falcons, was not involved yet they suspended rich mckay from the nfl competition committee. so there's already hypocrisy here within a matter of weeks.

you cannot suspend rich mckay when you flat-out say in your report that he knew nothing about the illegal crowd noise because rich mckay is the president of the falcons, that he is indirectly guilty. yet come back with this report which is more serious, and say that you're going to let bill belichick off scot-free. >> okay. okay, terrence. stay with us, please. i want to bring in steve kornacki host of msnbc's "up with steve kornacki." let me say this steve this has been a shock to some people. terrence moore saying look it didn't go far enough. but some people have suggested that because the new england patriots have been so untouchable, that anything like this, first-round draft picks as well as the suspension of america's quarterback tom brady, indicates that the nfl is pretty serious. where do you come down on this? >> yeah, i think this is a pretty big deal. take a few different pieces of it here. look at the fine. a million dollars fine for the

organization here. you go back to the spy-gate thing in 2007. there were a couple of fines that totalled $750,000. so this goes bigger than that. a first round draft pick next year, that's a big deal. fourth round pick in 2017. i just caught the tail end of your previous conversation but i know it sounds like the guest was saying it doesn't touch belichick. but belichick is picking the players for this team. belichick is not going to be able to have a first-round pick next year. it's a pretty big deal. for brady, it's a quarter of the entire season. so i think not just for brady himself, but for the patriots an organization, it is a pretty big blow with what the nfl is handing them here. >> there's no doubt that the new england patriots have taken over from the dallas cowboys as america's team that has engendered quite a bit of resentment in millions of fans who think that look the new england patriots often get away with murder so to speak.

has their reputation been ir tarnished here? there's the sense that belichick exists outside the rules. that mr. kraft is too chummy with roger goodell. do you think that all of that plays out in a way that will hold them accountable, or is this like a slight slap on the hand and they're going to move on? >> look i think when it comes to the patriots and what the world thinks of them, i think opinion was sort of set in stone a long time ago. i think the vast majority of fans out there outside of new england with the spy-gate thing now eight years ago decided this was sort of an outlaw organization. fans in new england obviously going to have -- a completely different take on that. by the other thing, you mentioned the supposed chumminess between kraft and goodell. and kraft has been a model owner in terms of what he's done for the league. i do wonder though if that sense played into goodell's

decision to come down in my view so hard on the patriots here, sort of prove that his chumminess wasn't making him go soft on the patriots. we'll see if they can get that knocked down. four game for brady. a pretty big deal. >> all right. terrance, look. tom brady with the latest win in the super bowl in the minds of many people moved into first place. at least a tie with joe montana as the greatest quarterback ever. what does this do to his legacy? >> this kills it. i'm going to talk about that in a minute. i want to point out one thing. the $1 million fine is nothing. they're worth $1.5 billion. and robert kraft could find $1 million between the seat cushions of his car, all right? as far as the tom brady thing goes this kills his legacy. you cannot look at this thing

singularly as the just the flightgate. and not just spy gaet. remember that new england was found guilty in the last few years of the substitution patterns and the way they were putting them in and out of games to the point the nfl changed the entire rule book in regard to that because of the patriots. and they spent years monkeying around. if you start connecting the dots here and it all goes back to tom brady and bill belichick, anything these guys have done over the last 15 years deserves a huge asterisk. >> so joining me now, nbc sports senior vice president. terrance moore has indicated, this will sully their entire reputation. that the kraft organization that bill belichick has had coach and tom brady as the exemplary quarterback of america will now all stand many bold relief against the kind of

obvious cheating going on here. are you that cynical? or are you that skeptical about how their reputation will play out in the coming years? >> well this is not going to be helpful to their legacy. no denying that. this is not a first offense. i think that clearly went into the nfl's decision here on the type of punishment that was handed down. this is a little bit harsher than most of us observing this expected it would be. i thought brady would get three games, four was a bit on the high side. what really jumps out at me was the punishment given to the organization. a first round draft pick was a lot more than we thought the organization would be penalize asked that really goes to previous incidents. a spygate affair when they were found to be videotaping other teams' signals.

the substitution pat persons were mentioned, they've done those things. they were found to not be illegal under the nfl rules. but the rules have been changed and adjusted. this is damaging to the reputation of the organization. it damages tom brady's organization. do i think this makes him a complete fraud or a persona nongrata? no. i think so. it he has six super bowls, four wins, a lot of that is still meaningful. >> speak to us about the broader context here. because after adrian peterson and ray rice and many of the chargers of domestic violence have played themselves out on the television screens of american society, america's game has taken a huge hit. dpouds the context of those troubles play any role in the perceived harshness of the penalty here? ray rice got two games. tom brady has four.

one for domestic violence. one for cheating in terms of footballs. >> well that i think the initial ray rice penalty, roger gerell has said he got it wrong. they ended up extending that penalty to indefendant. a full season before he was reinstated earlier this year. i don't think that to really correlate. on one hand you're talking about off the field unrelated to the game conduct. we've seen greg hardy, another player who was recently suspended for ten games because of a domestic violence incident. i think that's the new standard for domestic violence. things happening off the field. much harsher penalties. i think this was more an issue of the integrity of the game. the fact that you have a team individuals working for a team trying skirt the rules of the game. this is more of a football issue to me as opposed to a life issue and bigger than what's going on

on the field such as the ray rice situation. >> stay with us. joining me by phone, former nfl quarterback sage rosenfells. does tom brady take a huge hit in terms of his reputation? nothing like this surrounded joe montana, manipulating the rate of air in a football to gain a competitive advantage. do you think it a, besmirches his reputation and b, do you think the organization was held to in this sufficient manner? >> i think it hurts tom's reputation a little bit. as a guy who played 12 years with the nfl, i think it ruined his reputation. it is pretty obvious that he did try to get past the rules that he ever one else was abiding by. i think his punishment is fair. he was not as cooperative as the

nfl would have liked. he didn't hand over the text messages. he didn't want to make himself guilty of anything. and secondly i think the patriots were given a really harsh judgment. wasn't at the gm level or head coach level. it was at the bottom of the ring in the organization. obviously and he tom had something working together to break the rules. so it is not the million-dollar fine. we're talking about billionaires. but it does surprise me, the first round draft pick and the fourth round draft pick. >> do you think it is indicative of the fact well earned or not, that the participates rots are above the fray them don't get same treatment everybody else gets. i bet peyton is saying finally someone is treating them like

they treat us. >> there might be that. the ownership of the nfl, he is not that well liked and he makes things difficult for the people in the nfl. so they've been caught a few times in the past. he knows about spygate. i think the nfl and roger goodell and his people are trying to come down on them and say enough is enough. we've got very certain rules in place. we're talking about billion-dollar innovations here and going to the playoffs and not going to the playoffs are big. there's a lot of rules in the mf. they try to make it as black and white as possible. challenge advantage of all the,

situation. >> you were in the key position the point guard of the team. is this going on change the modus on that randi? they're ones who say this ball is good. i want to go with this. will this alter in any way the practices? >> i hope not. i think it was perfectly find. i think it was all about how they police the system. it was pretty obvious when they were checked by that official before the game, an hour and a half or two hours before. it's going to be under lock and key. i think it is important that nfl quarterbacks have a chance to work in those footballs. they get what they like the best. nobody wants to show a brand new football. you're going to have inaccurate

passes, drops, fumbles, i think the worked in football does then league and helps the play. >> all right. let's go back to tarnls moore. we have about a minute more. do you think this will change in in way how quarterbacks go about their business and how much we have put them under scrutiny? >> well not really. not in the sense of what they've been doing in the past. everybody that i've talked to. i've been covering the nfl for 40 something years. no one has seen anything to this level. i talked to dan reeves. he is like the forrest gump of the nfl. he has either played coached or administered a super bowl more than anyone in the history of the nfl. he said he's never seen anything to this point. >> all right. i have to run. you got a lot of great stuff you said. we've got to run right now but i thank you for that and i appreciate the comments you've made here tonight. i thank all of you for your time tonight to.

recap the nfl has suspended tom brady without pay for four games. the patriots have been fined $1 million and they will be forced to give up their first round draft pick in 2016 and fourth round draft pick in 2016. that's the ed show. here's the quarterfinal from politics nation who never has to inflate anything but tells truth. the reverend al sharpton. >> good evening. thanks to you for tuning in. we had breaking news. the nfl has suspended super bowl mvp tom brady for four games next season. for his role in the deflategate scandal that rocked the league. saying brady's conduct was detrimental to t