>> paul cheung, thank you for sharing our story with us. thank you for helping us out with this corage. thanks very much. >> thank you. >> chris hayes is up next. tragedy in philadelphia. this is "hardball." >> i'm chris matthews in philadelphia, the site of last night's horrific train derailment. >> i'm chris matthews in philadelphia, the site of last night's horrific train derailment. here is what we know at this hour. at least seven people were killed and 200 others were injured when a northeast regional train jumped the tracks shortly after it left philadelphia's 30th street station. the train was rounding a sharp curve, and many of the cars rolled over. according to the ntsb, the train was going way over the speed limit just before the crash. >> maximum authorized speed through this curve was 50 miles

per hour. when the engineer induced brake application was applied, the train was traveling at approximately 106 miles per hour. >> there were 238 passengers and five crewmembers on board, and some of them used their phones to capture amazing scenes of chaos and survival. >> come on, man. >> i got you, okay? okay? keep crawling, okay? >> here. hold on. here. >> go, go, go, go. >> should i just get out? >> help me? >> yeah. >> meanwhile, authorities have released some of the initial emergency radio transmissions. let's listen to those.

>> notify amtrak to shut down the entire northeast corridor. we have a major event here. we have people on the track. and a couple of cars overturned. we're going to classify this as a mass casualty incident. >> a major event. and here is what the train looks like right now. cars turned over, some mangled beyond recognition. philadelphia mayor michael nutter called it an absolute disastrous mess and said he has never seen anything like it. >> to see it in the daytime is almost indescribable. it is painful, and it amazing, it is incredible that so many people walked away from that scene last night. i saw people on the street behind us walking off of that train. and i don't know how that happened, but for the grace of god. >> robert sumwalt is a member of the national transportation

safety board, which is investigating the incident right now. robert, i think everybody gets on that train. i ride it all the time. everybody does, up and down the northeast corridor. and we don't pray before we get on that train. we don't think it's dangerous. how did this happen? >> well, we certainly want to find out why it did happen, chris. and it's a tragedy, and our whole objective. >> what we do know is the train was going at 106. can that track at that curve in northeast philly handle that kind of speed? >> patiently not? >> well, has it happened before this do we know if this was a normal speeding situation or is this a rare occurrence? >> well, we're going to go back and look at everything. we're going to be looking at data on this particular train and possibly even other amtrak trains to find out if this is a normal event. the speed limit, as you pointed out for that section of track, for that curve is 50 miles an hour. and engineers operate.

they know what their speed limits are. we want to find out. >> what other job does an engineer have other than to regulate the speed? i don't know how you can get it wrong. that's the only job they have, isn't it, to make sure the train is going at the right speed? >> it's certainly an important part of their job. >> let me ask you about why -- i know this is speculative. but we know there is evidence because you reported in the tape. the guy jammed on the brakes. why would he jam on the brakes? did he know he exceeded the speed and wasn't conscious of it or was? you couldn't jam on the brakes once you're derailed. that wouldn't do any good. >> we hope to interview the engineer. that's certainly a priority for us to certainly find out what was going on in his mind. we also want to look at the mechanical condition of the train. we want to look at the signal system. >> how about the track? >> we'll be looking at the track as well. >> let me ask you about this. i ride it all the time. and everybody rides amtrak or acela, the more expensive line. there is rock and roll at some points.

the train jumps back and forth left and right. you can hardly stand up on the train at certain times. you have to hang on really hard sometimes, okay. what is causing that? is it the quick turns and the right of way? what is it that makes that train jerk crazily around when you're riding it from d.c. to new york? it always does. especially there are certain parts of baltimore where it's really the wild west. it's like a buck board. what's going on? >> we're really here to look at this particular accident. >> i know. >> and try and understand that. >> i don't want to be too sympathetic to the engineer, but he has a hell of a route to follow every day. it's dangerous. >> well, i wouldn't say it's dangerous. risk can be managed and people manage risk very well every day. this is not happened on this particular case in this particular point previously. so it can't be dangerous because it doesn't happen all the time. but we want to find out what was different about this day that caused that train to be going 106 miles an hour in a speed

zone that was only 50 miles an hour. >> what is the margin on a train and rails? is there any way to say there is always going to be a give like a race car driver know there's is a certain margin of danger that he is willing to accept. is there a certain margin you can go over the speed limit. say it's supposed to be 50, the you had been going 70. but he went 106. it seems like that would be well beyond any kind of margin. >> yeah, train engineers are tested periodically and randomly. they don't even know they're being tested. sometimes their there are speed guns, like highway patrol officers. they're tested periodically to make sure they're complying with the speeds. so it would be very unusual to find one intentionally exceeding the speed limit. >> do you think we should have a ptc on these trains, something to control like a deadman's switch to make sure they don't go over the speed limit? >> not don't i think that, but the congress has mandated positive train control. >> but they're not on it. >> it's supposed to be installed by the end of this year.

>> okay, thank you, robert. >> thank you, chris. >> we'll be looking to see your results. i'm joined by nbc's stephanie gosk outside temple university hospital. stephanie, thank you. you know what is going on there. tell us. >> yeah, chris. well, we got an update here earlier today. and eight of the ten critical passengers that remain are here at this hospital. but doctors say that their situation at the moment is not life threatening. we don't know about the other two critical patients. you'll remember that earlier today the death toll went from six to seven. and that seventh death took place here at this hospital. it was jim gaines who arrived with such severe chest injuries that they couldn't revive him. and to a lesser extent, those kinds of breaks and chest injuries and broken bones are what doctors all around this city have been dealing with when you talk about the 140 people who were injured in this incident. just the force of flying out of those seats with all of those

cars, the broken bones is what they've been dealing with. they still they say have a number of surgeries that they need to perform here. we're also learning more about the people who were killed. and we know that, for instance, a second year midshipman, a young man who was on his way home to his parents, he was killed as well as a businessman, a man who worked for associated press, a father who also was on his way home to his kids in new jersey. he was just one stop away from getting off of the train. and he was killed as well. we will continue to hear those stories, those sad stories as the days progress. chris? >> stephanie, 200 injuries all at once and you have the mortalities there. how did the hospitals arrange it, divide up the patients in an emergency situation? >> what the doctors say is they practice these situations, and they believe they handled it as well as you can. in any situation, you're going to have unexpected circumstances.

this did happen at night. there were a lot of patients. under any circumstance, that's going to be a challenge for a health system, certainly a challenge for any city. but they handled it, and what they say is they're happy with here at temple university how things went. chris? >> thank you so much, stephanie gosk, temple university hospital. it looks like seven dead so far. it looks good for the others. i'm joined right now by paul chung. he is the director of digital news production for the associated press. he was on the train, number 188 last night when it crashed. paul, thank you. give us your account. i'm sure it's going to live with you forever. your account of what happened riding on that train when something happened. >> you know, when i was on that train, i was just mining my own business, playing with my iphone, streaming my netflix. and suddenly, you know, you could hear as if someone had just slammed the brakes. and everything turned dark. and you could feel a momentum pulling you to the right.

and people were screaming, and you could get a sense of the -- people's luggage and things kind of flying all over the place. and in the flash second, everythi'g stops. in total darkness, i could feel the train was tilted a little bit to the right. and people were just try to compose themselves, gather their belongings. and i could hear a voice behind me saying you need to get out now. you need to get out from the back. and i just grabbed my stuff, make sure that everyone is okay. i was basically asking people, you know, whose cell phone is this? and someone asked for a flashlight to find a cell phone. but at that moment, i smell smoke in the car. and that's when i know i really need to get out. so once i get out, that's when i realize how -- the magnitude of this disaster. it's almost like a movie scene, but except it's in real life, you know. part of the train would flip over to the side. i could see people crawling out from the emergency window toward the top. and part of the train is as someone had just ripped the

train apart and mangle it together in pieces. you could see debris and chairs just everywhere. and even in complete darkness, you could see how wide a territory it is spread. meanwhile, there is a couple dozen of passengers just a little bit confused and shock. and we could hear people saying that get off the track, get off the track, there is live wires. and you just don't know what will happen next. we don't know if a train is coming from the opposite direction or what is coming up next until the first responder came. and when they came, they really settle all the passenger into a different area and start performing triage, asking people questions, and tagging the different passengers with, you know, almost like a big color card with one, two, and three. red, yellow, and green. i guess that's based on the severity of the injury. and at that point, i was asking where are people going.

some people went to aria rockford. i myself went to jefferson hospital. they just recommended everyone to take an x-ray and get tetanus shots. >> what was the panic level like? was it really panicky, or were people just behaving quickly in an emergency situation? how would you describe the situation socially, if you will, the way people were behaving? >> i would say, you know, i was one of the earlier one who got out. so there was about two dozen of us. and some people, again, were just shock. they were standing at the side, calling their family. there is a couple of people find someone who was stuck in the debris, try to help free the person from the debris. i think everyone is really cooperative. there weren't any mass chaos yet until more passenger were being discovered. >> well, chung, you have told a great story about a terrible tragedy.

thank you so much for joining us here on "hardball." coming up, my hometown city of philadelphia responds to this deadly tragedy pretty well. more on that with philadelphia mayor michael nutter and the congressional leaders here who walk these streets. we'll be right back. sweet mother of softness... charmin!!! take a closer look at charmin ultra soft and you'll love what you see. not only can you use less, but you can actually see the softness in our comfort cushions. we all go. why not enjoy the go with charmin ultra soft? this is brian. every day, brian drives carefully to work. and every day brian drives carefully to work, there are rate suckers. he's been paying more for car insurance because of their bad driving for so long, he doesn't even notice them anymore. but one day brian gets snapshot from progressive.

now brian has a rate based on his driving, not theirs. get snapshot and see just how much your good driving could save you. three of the seven victims of the train accident have been identified now. abid gilani was an employee at wells fargo. jim gaines was an with associated press and the father of two children. and justin zemser was a midshipman. his mother spoke to the press this afternoon. >> he was wonderful. he was absolutely wonderful. everybody looked up to my son. and there is just no other words i could safe.

>> how did you hear about the accident? >> well, he was supposed to come home last night. at 10:30. and when i went online to see, you know, if everything was on time, they said there was a derailment. and then it was all plastered on tv. and i kept on calling the hospitals, but nothing. and then we got the phone call this morning that my son has passed. >> wanting to serve his country. how do you handle that. more from the crash site in philly after this. abid gilani. gilani. 're doing to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use, is the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure.

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that's why i recommend fast reliable comcast business internet. they know what businesses need. and there's a no-mistake guarantee. if you don't like it, you have thirty days to call and get your money back. with comcast business internet you literally can't mook a mistick. i meant to say that. switch today and get the no mistake guarantee. comcast business. built for business. welcome back to "hardball." for the latest in the train track derailment. i'm joined by the mayor of the city of philadelphia, michael nutter. mr. mayor, thank you for this. >> thank you, chris. >> you've been so busy and so wonderful everybody says at handling this emergency triage situation. >> thank you. >> i'm so impressed by the hospitals and the way they got in the business of saving lives. >> we have incredible hospital personnel, the doctors and

nurses, all the staffs at the various hospitals, our police department, our fire department. we literally just had an emergency ops training on monday. so these are the kinds of things that we prepare for on a regular basis. if you look at what is going on the ground, the relationship between the city, amtrak, ntsb, the police, fire, department of homeland security and many, many other agencies. and of course, amtrak and the amtrak police, everyone working in the seamless partnership all focused on one thing. search and rescue, making sure we reunite families, and then obviously dealing with the infrastructure and the trains and trying to get things cleared out. >> philly is a working class city and this is a working class area here. >> absolutely. >> people are saying people really responded in this area of frankford. >> no doubt about it. we've had an outpouring of support. people bringing water, juice, food, coffee, whatever they thought the first responders needed. and we love our first responders here in philadelphia.

everyone knows the great history of the fire department, the police department, ems workers. they save lives last night. 200 plus people walked off of that train. you've seen the records. you've seen the damage. and the fact that they were able to walk off of that train, get service, get to a hospital, get support and get reunited with their families is really almost a miracle. >> thank you. good politics. and i should say good government serves the people at the right time. thank you so much. >> thank you. let's go right now for latest breaking -- let's bring in tom costello, my colleague. tom, give us a sense of this dimension of this, and how with are we going to find out and how soon what has happened. what are we going to find out later? >> i think we should be very aware that the ntsb is a very deliberate process. they will take weeks, months and maybe even a year or more before they come up with a final determination of what happened. all we really know tonight is that this engineer was running

the train at 106 miles per hour as he entered that curve that is more than double the posted speed limit. and then he slammed on the brakes, got it down to 103, 102 miles per hour and then it's too late. the train is going off the tracks. we don't know why the train is traveling that fast. was he asleep at the switch? was he not paying attention? was he incapacitated in some way? was there a mechanical issue of some sort? he, we are told, hasn't talked to ntsb investigators. police sources told us he hasn't talked to them either. and we're also told he has contacted a lawyer. we're told the engineer's name is brandon bastion. so clearly that's a big part of this investigation. simply the ntsb still is going to be looking at the mechanics of this train. did something go wrong? what about the tracks themselves? what about the wheels on the trains? you know, what about the signals? and then they're going to look through all of the telemetry that that black box picks up,

speed, direction, how were the signals working in terms of were they being received properly. what about all of the telemetry that gives good feedback on how the train is performing on the tracks. all of that will play into this. but, you know, chris, you and i have done many, many discussions, had many discussion over the years about various ntsb investigations. and as you know, they're a very transparent organization. they will tell you the facts as they have them when they come about. they're not going to draw conclusions yet because very often that key piece of evidence that can actually tie it all up together and explain it may be weeks down the road. and it may not come out until they have an interview with somebody or they have some findings. they always caution us just hang on. listen to what we give as information, but don't draw conclusions yet. >> thank you so much, tom costello of nbc news. thanks for joining us. i'm joined right now by two democratic congressmen from pennsylvania, robert brady represents the district where we're stand right now in

frankford, philadelphia. and brandon boyle represents parts of the philly area as well right nearby. congressman, you're the leader of the city politically, you are. what are you going to do about this? talk about this ptc thing? >> well, it's positive train control is a device that if it's in the engine and it's on the poles, it would have stopped the train. >> so it's a deadman switch? >> exactly. amtrak had it in the locomotive, but not on the pole. in 2008 we passed a law that all 100 railroads have to have this ptc in place by 2015. now the first i want to go back, i want to talk to the department of transportation. i want to ask for a public system-wide audit of where they're at, why don't these trains visit. it's supposed to be in hazmat trains and passenger trains. the delay you see today costs lives. and we can't get any more delay. they've got the money. >> you're going to make it law? >> it is law. they're dragging their feet. >> what's frustrating is we took a tour at ntsb and amtrak were nice enough and gracious enough

to take us on. it is a horrific scene, actually far worse than i was expecting. right here. and it stretches for quite a bit from the lead car to the last car. when you're the ntsb standing where you are saying if this system were in place, if we had the ptc, this would not have happened and seven people would still be alive today and 200 wouldn't be injured. >> why hasn't it happened. >> you take the train every night home. and you take it as well. you know it's rickety. the it's like the wild west some parts of that route. do we need to have a better right of way? can we clear a straight line? how fast can a train go if it's going like this? >> and i don't know it has to go that fast this why do we got to get there to washington? allow yourself another 15 minutes to get down there. it looks like a bunch of kids threw toy trains against the wall. they're mangled. they're squashed. and they still don't know if there is anybody still there, god forbid.

>> it is a matter of priority, though. think about it. china has 9,900 miles of high speed rail. >> yeah, it's a communist country. but they can just draw a line, congressman, and say get out of the way. we got people in the way that zigs and zags because there are people that own private property. >> there is that. but there is eminent domain. i think it's more the resources aren't being spent on it. >> we have to make sure they get this done by 2015 and make it public. i don't want to have an internal where we're say we're doing. this it has to be public order. get it done. >> democrat versus republican. is it your philosophy, maybe a too big word for this. do you believe it's a public service, this train? does visit to run at a profit or it can be something the country subsidizes? >> it runs on a profit. >> the northeast runs on a profit. but they don't only carry democrats or republicans. they carry both. they carry democrats and republicans. today in an appropriations hearing, proposed a $200 million more money into the president's budget just for this year. and it got voted down on a partisan basis.

partisan lines. >> what is the republican attitude? why are they challenging this? >> suburban republicans from philadelphia, new york, new england, they get it. but unfortunately we don't get much cooperation from other side when it comes to the other part of the country. >> does anybody think about how many cars would be on the highway? >> oh, it's incredible. >> jamming the airways. >> ask the chamber of commerce how important this line is. >> and the fuel emissions. but it's a shame and it's a shame that this had to happen. i feel so bad for the people. >> in the tavern tonight, this guy was driving 106 miles per hour in a 50 miles an hour zone. >> we had the ptc, that would not have happened. and i don't know why he had to go to 106 in a fife mile span. i have no idea. >> the brakes, so he obviously caught himself doing it. >> coming up to the curve. doesn't he know the curve is there? that's crazy. >> it looks like a combination of the two. obviously double the speed. he was going double the speed. he should have been. but at the same time, if we know that unfortunately human nature

is what it, let's be smart enough to put a system in place that we know exists that we can prevent something like this from happening. >> before the 2015, delay cost lives. just like what happened out here. delay costs lives. >> thank you. >> thank you. appreciate it. >> brandon boyle, the irish. strange situation here. i shouldn't be kidding. what a sad night. but i'm so impressed by this city and the way you saved 200 lives, probably. the triage, the hospitals, the willingness of people to help in the neighborhood. >> a lot of constituents from your old neighborhood in the northeast, law enforcement. >> police, fire, first responders. hospitals. hospitals. and the universities. drexel put a staging area for us too. great. >> frankford, great old neighborhood here. i'm joined right now by dr. herb cushing. >> hi. >> tell us how you handle these situations where you have 200 people coming in all in need of emergency care. >> temple hospital is a level 1 trauma center. and it was the nearest level 1 trauma center to the train

derailment. and we practiced and drilled to be prepared for exactly this sort of situation. temple got 54 patients very quickly after the derailment. and everyone jumped in to action. the trauma team was all over it. the nurses, all the other hospital employees were helping out, making sure that the patients were evaluated and treated in the best way possible. and they did a stupendous job. and they really deserve our thanks and congratulations. >> how do the hospitals, doctor, work together in these situations? you've got other great hospitals in philadelphia as well. >> yeah. the ambulance crews know to sort of pace out where they're bringing the patients. the majority of them in this situation were going to come to temple hospital because it was the nearest one. and we could have taken more patients, and we're continuing to pull all of the time, we're continually clearing the trauma bays and moving the patients along so that we were ready for more. i actually expected more at temple when the extrications

started later in the event. but we didn't get any more patients after midnight. >> what of the patients in critical condition right now? do they all look like they'll make it? critical sounds scary. you've lost seven people now in this accident, four dead on the train, two thrown off the train, one died at the hospital. how do the other injured look right now, the critically injured? >> yeah, we're doing okay. as the day has gone on, the situation has looked better here at temple. folks are stable or improving, even the critical care folks. and i think the situation is going to be good for them. we had a lot of folks with fractures and several that needed operations today, and some more that will need operations tomorrow. but we discharged some patients today, and probably more will be going home tomorrow. so things are looking up. we did have the one man who died here, mr. gaines last night from a massive chest injury. >> dr. herb cushing, thank you so much for joining us and for the wonderful work you're doing

and your hospital is doing at temple university hospital. up next, the latest on the deadly train derailment here in philadelphia. we'll have an update on the situation on the ground as crews continue to go through the wreckage. that's coming up next. >> we were sitting there, and then it just -- it you saw it go like that, swung you could feel it off the tracks. and then we just rolled and rolled. >> and all of the sudden we're on our side. and then it looked like we were going to flip. we never flipped. we went on to the side and back off the side. >> it felt like the brakes, our car, third from the last, slowly started going over to the right. i braced my arm against it. just got off, yeah. >> the next thing i knew, we were pushing out the emergency exit and i was outside. and there were people screaming and bleeding. and we helped them out. and they're okay now. is kid makes stains like crazy so we got our new he washing machine but it took forever turns out it wasn't the machine, it was our detergent. so we switched to tide turbo clean. now we get way cleaner clothes way faster he turbo clean. 6x the cleaning power in ½ the time

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welcome back to "hardball," msnbc. chris hayes surveyed the site today from a helicopter. let's take a look at his pictures. >> it is at this crucial juncture here that the train derailed, is at this crucial juncture the train. and you can see just how sharp that bend is. i mean, that is about -- that is essentially just a right angle left turn there for that train. >> chris hayes joins us now. tell what's you'll be able to see from the air. we're not allowed to see it from the ground. >> no. we went up. one thing about it is, you know, this is the opposite of mh 370, the plane that disappeared, total mystery. you look at it, you can see the physics of what happened. the train went too fast. you can see the rails lifted up off the ties where the force of that bend put them up. you can see the little embankment off the rails where basically that force took that

train and particularly the second car, the first passenger car, and just crushed it down like that. you can see it. in fact, when you're looking at it, it is -- if you looked over that and how many people died in this train crash, i think you would say 100. >> so the rails went left, the cars went right? >> yeah, the rails came up off the ties. the cars jumped off the rail this way. >> yeah. >> and then -- another striking thing was the locomotive survives because that is engineered to extremely high safety specifications such that it is reinforced. someone today told me it's like a tank. so it's sitting there. it had been moved off the site. it's sitting there basically intact. it's the first passenger car that ends up getting all the transferred force through the locomotive that is the first thing to hit into that passenger car. >> what are you hearing about the scuttlebutt here? i'm hearing what everybody is hearing, i guess, that the facts are out there. a lot of it. 106 miles per hour in a 50 miles an hour zone. everybody knows what that is.

and then they have an idea that the engineer jammed on the brakes which tells you he knew he was going to fast and tried to avert disaster. >> with what we know, it is hard not to think that human error is playing some role here. now i suppose it's possible there is some mechanical set of events that would cause a train to sort of speed out of control. >> yeah. >> but from what we know, certainly things seem to be pointing in that direction. the other thing i would say before you get to that bend, there is a long straightaway. i mean, you're four or five -- you're about five miles from 30th street station. but you've been now going two miles straight away. an electric locomotive like that, not diesel, right, those things accelerate very quickly. they don't have combustion engines. they accelerate in a almost linear fashion. they can get up very fast very quickly. >> this is one part of the country where people take trains still. everybody loves them. you don't have to think. you don't have to pray. it's usually a safe ride. get on the train, you go to sleep, do some homework, read the paper.

you're in philly at three hours at the most on the slow train, you're in new york city. it's a great ride. >> and the thing we know about transportation psychology is that people will tolerate way higher risks for cars they're going to drive than they would tolerate for any mode of transportation where someone else is in control. so you can tell someone planes are exceedingly safe, but people get nervous. >> it's all or nothing in an airplane. that's the problem. >> that's true. but it also doesn't take a lot of train accidents to really affect the psychology of people. because people like to be in control. >> yeah. >> do you think this is going to change the politics where members are going to say they were chintzing again the other day on amtrak, that we better be careful here politically? >> i would think so. look, the rail safety act passed in 2008 was signed by george w. bush. it wasn't some lefty socialist piece of legislation.

>> yeah. i'll tell you. i think the train is the greatest thing in the world here. i hope they can continue to make it safer. love the ride in the chopper. wish i got it. thank you, chris hayes. up next, the amtrak derailment has thrown the slight back on the chris sis over this country's infrastructure. a boring word infrastructure until there is a crisis. so what are our leaders going to do about it? new york congressman steve israel is trying to do something about it. he spoke up today. he joins us next. >> we are divesting from america in this subcommittee, in this committee, and it doesn't make sense. and it defies the interests of the american people. they expect us to watch over their safety when they get on trains, when they are on planes, when they are in cars on highways. and last night we failed them. we failed to invest in their safety. what we should have been doing is subsidizing the safety of those passengers on that amtrak train yesterday.

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welcome back to "hardball." on a party line vote today, the house appropriations committee voted to cut funding to amtrak by a quarter million. in the hearing before that vote, democratic congressman steve israel of new york spoke about the need for safety improvements in light of last night's tragedy. it led to a heated exchange with his republican colleague mike simpson of idaho. >> you have no idea, no idea what caused this accident. and to use that as a means of supporting the last amendment, support it if you want to. but don't use this tragedy in that way. it was beneath you.

>> but continuing to divest from safety and training and training of personnel is a lack of priorities when we're in fact at the same time increasing subsidies away from safety of passengers and the american people to special interests. that is the point that i was making. >> would the gentleman yield? >> i will. >> that's not what you said. you tied it directly to an accident, a tragedy that happened last night and suggested because we hadn't funded it, that's what caused that accident. and you have no idea what caused it. and that's a shame. >> i'm joined right now by the congressman in question, democratic congressman steve israel of new york. congressman, thank you for joining us. when you look at this tragedy, a number of facts jump out at us. the driver, the engineer was going 106 miles per hour in a 50 miles an hour zone. he jams on the brakes. it looks like human error here. however, just to complete the picture, a lot of people say they might have been speeding all the time in that zone. and by the way, is it the infrastructure, the tracks

themselves that make it very difficult to be safe there? your thoughts. put it together. >> well, chris, there are three things that comprise good, sound infrastructure. one is personnel training, making sure that an engineer is abiding by the rules, is operating the train safely. the second is maintenance. making sure that when we're on a train or a plane, on a highway, those components are maintained. and the third is modernization, making sure that we're not driving and taking trains on a 20th century infrastructure. we're 0 for 3 on those things. now we tried to correct that today in the appropriations committee. the fact is that the amtrak budget that we voted on today is $1.3 billion below the president's request and $250 million less than last year. so we offered a simple amendment today in the appropriations committee. and that was to restore those funds. and what we got was a party line vote. they defeated that amendment just within 24 hours after this accident. and my final point is this. republicans said that it's just that we couldn't afford to add those funds back, that we

couldn't afford to subsidize train safety. well, two weeks ago, they repealed the entire estate tax at a cost of nearly $700 billion to the treasury without a penny in offset. so instead of subsidizing special interests, we need to subsidize the safety of americans and their infrastructure. >> let me ask you about that train ride. everybody takes that train from d.c. to new york and loves it. but the problem with the train ride is it's the opposite of a bullet train. it doesn't go straight in a line. it jumps back and forth. it goes around every corner in every big city. it's a jagged line. how do you get around that? the fact is it's a difficult course to run safely. certainly not at speed. >> chris, i once had a debate with the former head of the metropolitan agency in new york when i was telling him we needed high speed rail. he said you'll never get it done. it's too complicated. it's too expensive. i said to him i'm glad you weren't around in the 1850s and the 1860s when we built the transcontinental railroad right through the rocky mountains.

if we could do those things now, we should be able to do them now. and we have to quit this defeatism and this lack of priorities in washington, d.c. it can be done. if other countries can do it, we can find the will and the way to do it here. >> but we have a country where people can complain, and communist countries like china, they just draw a straight line. whether it goes through your house or not, it's a straight line. this amtrak, i've been taking it for half a century. it doesn't go in a straight line. in this case it tried to make a turn and turned over because there are so many turns on that route. >> you're right. if you can't get rid of the turns, at least fund the ptcs, at least fund the positive train control systems that would immediately stop the train if it's going too fast around a curve. but we're not funding that because we're underfunding our infrastructure. >> right. bob brady, the congressman from here, was just on talking about ptc and that system, the deadman's switch basically is what it is. how do you make sure that's on

every train going forward? >> you do it by simply investing. the reason that the ptcs aren't on every train is simply because of the money. congress passed a law saying you have to have the technology, but you figure out how to pay for it. instead of taking money out of the treasury to repeal the estate tax, we're doing permanent tax credits for special interests, put the ptcs on every train. it's a simple proposition. >> congress, thank you. you're making good hell over this. somebody has to do it. when are we going to fix our problems after seeing they're broken? up next, a dramatic look inside the crash from former u.s. congressman patrick murphy who was actually on the train and lived through this, and was something of a hero himself. we'll be right back. you get used to stale odors in your mudroom. you think it smells fine, but your guests smell this... febreze air effects works instantly to eliminate odors you've gone noseblind to. smells like a field of awesome in

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former u.s. congressman patrick murphy was on that train when it crashed last night. here is some of his unbelievable firsthand account. >> i made sure i helped people get out. you know, at first i checked to make sure i still had my arms and legislation. it was pretty violent. the guy next to me was unconscious. so i got him up, sat him up, patted his face, get up, brother, get up. he came to so i yanked him up. i had to pull myself to the other side. the ceiling was the side window. i pulled myself up on to the bench area so i could reach the

emergency exit and punch it out. and people that were able to get out were getting out. so i helped push them up. and then i was just trying to help the folks that couldn't move and that were really in bad shape. >> well, patrick murphy himself will be here in just a moment to tell us more. we'll be right back.

>> he got up, and he came too, so i yanked him up, and then i had to pull myself, because the ceiling was the side window, i pulled myself up on to the bench window. the people that were able to get out. we're back, a united states congressman from pennsylvania, patrick murphy was on that amtrak train last night when it derailed. he's with me now. congressman, tell me about it.

>> you are something of a liero, i'm hearing. >> yes, yes. you helped some people get off that train? >> i climbed up and punched out the window. make sure we took care of those who couldn't move. within minutes, the philadelphia fire department personnel and cops were climbing up with the ladder, coming up through the window, and on that team. they were the real heroes, they literally save lives last night. >> they're the ones that, that scene last night, there were live electrical wires on the track. they sacrificed selfless, going through. if they had touched it, they would have died. they went into those trains, helping as many people as they could, stabilize the situation. >> you've been in the military. how did they put this whole thing together. rudy giuliani was talking about it. all of a sudden the mayor of philadelphia has got the fire department in charge. a clear chain of command. a section of responsibility for everybody. and everybody went into it. including the cops. >> i came out last night, i stood on the track.

i will tell you, it was wave after wave of first responder. wave after wave of stretchers, making sure they brought them out safely. it was amazing, scattered light with flashlights, it could have been chaos. >> i feel very blessed that i'm here. only by the grace of god. when i -- senator tom carper from the state of delaware, was next to me, he got off in wilmington. when that train derailed and rolled over, i would have knocked him out. that train threw me, i'm 6'1", 200 pounds, that threw me like a rag doll. >> did you sense any kind of vibration or crazy speed? >> yeah, vibration, and then -- >> did you think it was odd going that fast through the city?

>> i was on my ipad and i had my ear buds in, i was doing work. i was rushing to be with my daughter and son before they went to sleep. it happened so fast, i checked my arms and legs to make sure they were there. i helped people get out, stayed with the ones that were wounded. we don't leave anyone behind in the military. i wanted to make sure i talked to those guys. >> i was saying earlier, like a lot of people, i pray on airplanes, because turbulence is real. it doesn't bring down a plane, but you always think it will. >> you think nothing's going to happen. a train is a train, it's on tracks, it stays on tracks. it's more dangerous than you think. because this, seven dead people now. you've been in congress before, are they going to do anything about it, are they going to make it safe, fix the infrastructure, put the dead man's switch?

those kinds of things? >> they should do their job, we all know that. >> this is a nice little neighborhood right here? >> yeah. >> i was just explaining to people this is the home of the frankford yellowjackets, the national league champions in 1927 -- they played them here at connie mack. a nice old neighborhood, i'm so glad people came out and helped last night. they did their job, citizens. thank you, much more from the crash scene here in philadelphia. we'll be right back. >> when i started hearing people, i was on the side. so -- the shoes are not my shoes. i lost my shoes. a lady gave me her shoes. in just this one moment, your baby is getting even more than clean. the scent, the lather, even the tiny bubbles of a johnson's® bath are helping to enhance the experience.

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i leave you tonight with fairly good news. the hospital's reporting that the people in critical condition are going to make it, which means it was a bad night last night, the country for philadelphia and the tragedies on that train. it's a better night tonight. the first responders and what they're able to do, to save 200 people, get to the hospital, to get them treated and save those critically wounded, saving their lives, it's been a good day since. i'm turning it over to chris hayes, "all in" takes over right now. i'm turning it over to chris hayes, "all in" takes over right now. >> all right.

>> thanks, chris. >> thanks for joining us. i'm chris hayes taking over, we are live as you see from philadelphia at the scene of amtrak train's 188 catastrophic derailment last night. where investigators are continuing to probe through the wreckage, the crash killed at least seven people, eight are listed in critical condition. more may still be missing. the federal investigation has only just begun to probe what happened. here's what we know, according to preliminary information from the train's black box which was handed over to the ntsb earlier today, the train was zooming northward at more than double the speed limit as it hit a dangerous curve near the frankford junction rail yard. the engineer hit the brakes but it was already too late. >> maximum authorized speed through this curve was 50 miles an hour. when the engineer induced brake application was applied, the train was traveling