maximum authorized speed through this cover was 50 miles per hour. when the engineer induced brake application was applied, the train was traveling at approximately 106 miles per

hour. three seconds later when the data to the recorders terminated the train speed was 102 miles per hour. our mission is to find out not only what happened, but why it happened so that we can prevent it from happening again. that's really what we're here for. >> we begin this morning with the latest on the deadly amtrak derailment in philadelphia which is now being blamed for seven deaths. the search for answers is already yielding startling discoveries thanks to the train's black box. according to investigators for the national transportation safety board train 188 was traveling more than 100 miles per hour when it derailed. that would be more than twice the speed limit as the train began a turn before going off the tracks. officials are still trying to determine why the train was traveling so fast. they say an advanced safety system known as positive train control had it been installed on

24 section this section of the track may have been able to prevent the crash completely. new video has emerged of the moment of impact which the witness says lit up the entire sky. the number of injured has risen to more than 200 of the 243 people on board. and nbc news has confirmed this man, brandon bostian the engineer, police say he briefly spoke with them and gave him a blood sample. he's also handed over a cell phone and had this to say about what his client remembers about the crash. >> he remembers driving the train. he remembers going through that area generally. has absolutely no recollection of the incident or anything unusual. the next thing he recalls is being thrown around, coming to finding his bag, getting his cell phone and dialing 911. >> so the investigation into the engineer continues this morning. let's go to philadelphia, nbc

news correspondent ayman mohyeldin is there. what's the latest in philly? >> reporter: the scene behind me still remains very active. we've seen some oversized trucks arrive an indication perhaps that they're prepare to go move some of those cars. we know from yesterday the ntsb says it has released the tracks back to amtrak so they can begin repairing them but they will continue the investigation by moving the cars to a secure location. the word you're hearing from ntsb officials over and over again is time line. they're trying to establish the time line for two important event events. one the time it left the train station to the time of the derailment, and also the time line of the engineer and what his-was like hflife was like the past 24 hours. we're hearing the investigation is ongoing. as a result of the train reaching about 106 miles per hour in a turn that was meant to be only about 50 miles that's broke double the speed that he was authorized to go around that curve. they're also collecting data

about some of the signals on the track, seeing if there is any problems with the track, but more importantly they're gown loading day if a from that event recorder as well as that forward facing front camera.gownloading day if a from that event recorder as well as that forward facing front camera. that can reveal a lot. all of this could have been prevented. here is what the ntsb board member robert zumwalt had to say yesterday. >> we have called for positive train control for many many years. it's on our most wanted list. congress has mandated that it be installed by the end of this year. so we are very keen on positive train control. based on what we know right now, we feel that had such a system been installed in this session of track, this accident would not have occurred. >> reporter: now that system was meant to prevent this precise type of incident in the sense that if the train was going at about 100 miles per hour, as it entered that curve, it would have automatically forced the train to slow down

regardless of what the cause of take acceleration was. so this is something that had not been implemented or at least installed on this part of the track. officials at this point, though continue their investigation here. they are looking for some key pieces of evidence and more importantly still looking for perhaps some of those that have not yet been identified. >> all right. thanks so much. let's talk more about that safety technology. sgerpt experts say that may have prevented this tragedy. there was a similar accident in spain two years ago when the train flew off the rails going 111 miles an hour as it headed into a turn. left 79 people dead. the same year in new york, investigators say a metro north railroad engineer fell asleep as his train sped into a sharp curve at more than 80 miles an hour, almost three times the posted speed limit. that accident left four dead. experts say technology called positive train control or ptc

could put an end to accidents like those and the one in philadelphia. it's a safety system that sought h. automatically slows trains down to enforce speed limit wills and it's in place in some sections, but not the location of tuesday's derailment. ptc is a system that uses sensors on the rails and inside the engine car as well as satellites to track a train's movement. if a train is going too fast, the system warns the crew if the engineer does not slow down the train, the computer automatically activates the brakes. >> so we have patrick murphy with us, heed rendell, as well. patrick, yesterday you talked about the train shaking or rattling just right before the crash. exactly what the front page of the "new york times" says today, a crazy shake and then metal tearing and chaos. >> the question is, if we have this technology we had this tragedy in philadelphia we had this tragedy on the metro north.

why don't we have it everywhere? this is not new technology. so why don't we have it guys? ed why? >> some do. >> simply because amtrak has been underfunded for years now. i testified once before a senate committee and senator shelby said to me, well governor, you mean you understand we -- >> ed, with all due respect, i'm going to cut you off there. you can't blame how crappy metro north is on an alabama senator. >> no but i'm just saying the whole -- >> but come on. there is horrible mismanagement here. on metro north up and down amtrak, is there not? >> no question. but congress mandated ptc being put in effect this year. if they had mandateded it three or four years -- remember the guy from the national safety board said this was on their most wanted list. they submitted their most wanted list to congress. the answer is, we do underfund it. every train system in the world is subsidized, joe.

every single one. europe asia. >> i got no problem funding it. in fact i talk about funding infrastructure every single day on this show. okay? but the answer is not always a bigger check. i support that bigger check. but that's always the answer. something bad happened. we got a massive $4.5 trillion budget every year. we can't afford this to save lives in philadelphia? that's my only point. we're on the same side on funding this stuff. but is there mismanagement in the system, too? >> i think amtrak's been asking for this for a while. it's been on their most wanted list for a while. congress just mandated it i guess last year in the budget. >> yeah. and so by this year and they extended it in the senate subcommittee. but i think your point is right in the sense that this system the ptc system, it's about $10 billion. michael bloomberg and ed rendell and others are arguing for a new vision? infrastructure

infrastructure, and you, joe, on this show. we're not talking about $10 billion, we're talking about up to potentially a trillion dollars to really make a difference. because americans want america to be number one. we don't want to be second to anybody. and there is not the wasteful spending -- i hear frustrations. i carry about the bottom line. and part of leadership is look at the metrics. you get what you measure. you should be measuring performance, as well. >> but joe, i think your point is we don't want to shovel more money on top of a flawed system. we talked about yesterday the shovel-ready projects that president obama put into the stimulus package. what happened to all that? >> even the president said he found out later there weren't shovel-ready projects. ed has been talking about an infrastructure bank forever. that's the approach. and the reason why we need to fund exactly what you're talking about, what we're all agreeing with is, have you ever been up and down 95? have you ever been on the merit merritt parkway?

we're coming to a stage i think in our civilization where we'll look at the cars on the road and look at it as absolutely gested areas here, in california california, across the country. why can't we do high speed rail? why? you have the president of the council here yesterday. our short funding in infrastructure is going to cost this economy 1% of gdp within the next five years. >> and the interesting thing is the better you make trains and mass transit, the more people ride it. joe, amtrak came to me when i was governor and said we want to cut the time on the harrisburg to philadelphia line from two hours to an hour and a half. we want $75 million from the state and we'll match it. we did it. and in five years, the ridership's gone from 898,000 to 1.5 million people. >> wow.

all right. let's get a different perspective p joining us from chief land, ohio, the president of the motoc railroad academy. david, not only do you own two railroad you've also trained engineers for a couple of decades now. what stands out to you as you you hear all the information coming out in the last 24 hours about this incident? >> it's pretty maddening. i'm very disappointed. the answer is extremely low if he can. i've advocated this for years. all we simply need to do is put another person in the cab of a locomotive, another conductor, another locomotive engineer. >> amazing, one person. >> one person. it could be implemented this afternoon, it could be implemented in an hour. low tech. save hundreds of millions of dollars. the ptc system, while it's coming, it's just like the skycar it's on the horizon, been talking broke it for years implementation is slow it's rolling out slow. but i draw the analogy between

railroads and aircraft. today's modern jet fly by wire, doesn't need anybody up in the flight deck, but we still have two pilots there for safety. one to watch the other. >> what would that second person in the cab do? >> he would be in to watch the track, watch the engineer take orders and communicate with the deposit patcher. it's a very busy environment especially on that section of railroad. there is a lot of communication going on between the train and the control tower, between the train and the crew itself between other trains. watching for signals. watching out for what is going along the road. the reality is we have a person there running the train that is a human being. they get tired. they get sleepy. they may have eaten something at the taco truck two hours before that now is causing some

intestinal duress. and what do you do? you're there by yourself and you better have the kidneys of a dalmatian to make it through your shift. i say from practical experience, from real life experience, if you don't have two people in the cab of a locomotive watching not only for the route ahead and taking care of your train but watching out for each other then you have a problem. i advocated this in the 2008 derailment in chatsworth i've advocated this in 2013. all these things would have been avoided. people would be alive today had they just put another person in the cab of a locomotive. >> all right. thank you so much for being here. we greatly appreciate it. >> amazing one person. one person could be responsible for an entire train full of people in this day and age. he brings up a very basic point. >> he really does. we've talked about technology infrastructure investment but congressman, let's talk about the people who lost their lives

because of the mistakes that were made and talk about being inside there. again, i mean, i know you've had to think about it so much over the past 24 hours. >> it's still pretty raw, to be honest with you, joe. i took yesterday off a bit and i was coaching my son's hockey game last night just to get back in the swing of hinge, just appreciate everything a little bit more. but i know i'm one of the lucky ones. you can't help but think about the seven guys who aren't going to see their families again and the over 200 that are injured and some dozens and dozens who are severely injured. >> it's incredible the loss. would he learnwe're learning more about the victim among them derrick griffith a ten year veteran in the education field and was described in a school press release as a pillar of the community. the other victims include a u.s. naval midshipman, a wells fargo executive, the ceo of a small

tech company, and software architect. here is stephanie gosk with more. >> reporter: justin zimser was supposed to be home by 10:30. >> they said there was a derailment, all night we kept calling hospitals, but nothing. >> reporter: his mother got the awful news her son had died. >> he was wonderful. he was absolutely wonderful. everybody looked up to my son. and just there is no other words i can say. >> reporter: jim gainses worked for the associated press. >> he would do things to try to make your day better. railroad a bead jelani and rachel jacobs did not survive either. four of the seven passengers who died on train 188. others have found their loved ones here at temple university

hospital where dr. curbthey performed surgeries all night long. >> what little i've seen suggested things could have been a lot worse. >> reporter: jeff cutler agrees. he was in the second car and felt it launch into the air. >> i felt like we were flying. >> you you actually had time to feel that sensation? >> i recall that sensation. and it eventually tipped over with a thud. >> reporter: left with just bruises, he knows he's one of the lucky ones. >> and another passenger named bob gildersleeve still missing this morning. his family has been passing out flyers asking anyone who knows his whereabouts to contact them or the philadelphia police. unbelievable loss. still ahead on "morning joe," an exclusive joint appearance by the two u.s. senators monitoring tuesday's crash in their home state, pat toomey and bob casey join us together in a moment.

also ray lahood and george pataki who says he'll be making an announcement about his presidential prospects right here on "morning joe". the volkswagen golf was just named motor trend's 2015 car of the year. so was the 100% electric e-golf. and the 45 highway mpg tdi clean diesel. and last but not least the high performance gti. looks like we're gonna need a bigger podium. the volkswagen golf family. motor trend's 2015 "cars" of the year.

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clearly it was reckless in terms of the driving by the engineer. there is no way in the world that he should have been going that fast into the curve. i mean, you almost have to be an idiot even if you're trying to make up time a to be doing 106 on a curve. that is not acceptable under any set of circumstances. >> that was philadelphia mayor michael nutter yesterday reacting to news that amtrak train 188 was traveling more than 100 miles an hour when it derailed. >> can you believe that? >> no. more than twice the speed rimtlimit in the area. joining us from philadelphia board member robert zumwalt. what are the options here as to why the train was going so fast?

>> well that's of course exactly why we're here. and i want to point out that everything is on the table. we certainly want to understand why this train was doing more than twice the allowed speed. so we'll be looking at the human, we'll be looking at the machine, and that's really what we're looking at at this point. >> month or so ago when we had the tragic plane crash, the suicide in france, a lot of people were asking why they didn't have rules requiring two pilots in the cockpit or two people in the cockpit at all times. we just had a guest on saying that a safe low tech way to make these type of accidents prevent these, would be to have two people up front. why don't we do that is this why don't we require that in this country and would that make your job easier? >> well joe, good morning.

actually, we think that there is an option that is even brern have better than having a second person. and that's positive train control. it's designed to protect against human error. if the error occurs, positive train control will kick in and control the speed of the train sgrp. >> we've been talking about that and apparently it was installed on metro north trains after people a died. so until we're up to speed technologically, doesn't it make sense to have two people up front? >> well, we've certainly seen accidents where there are two people in either an airplane or a locomotive cab. so, yes we do want redundancy and another person may be a measure of redid doneundanceyredundancy. but positive train control is a proven technology. s's required to be installed by the end of this year. >> and robert, this is willie geist. this is not a new technology, is it?

>> the concept is not new, but the implementation of what the current generation positive train control that is new. and it's just now coming into maturation. >> what do you look for when you get on the ground first for this type of accident? to you first want to talk to the conductor, is that the first thing you want to do? >> certainly talking to the engineer who operates the train yeah, that's a high priority for us. we hope to be able to do that soon. but also we want to go and secure things like the event recorders which we've already done. we want to start diagramming the wreckage, start collecting training records, employment records, inspection records for the track. those are the types of things that we want to be doing as soon as we got here. >> robert sum walt, thank you very much. coming up, it's usually democrats who are accused of

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it's about getting value. it's not about making everybody comfortable. actually if you walk out of the room and you felt it was an up uncomfortable meeting it's good. >> look how comfortable she was. >> it's the lights. stofs it was so good to have you. >> i would like it repay the favor, but i can't do it. i have to talk about jeb bush. with us now, nicolle wallace, and also howard dean and from bloomberg politics, mark halperin. associate professor of columbia university, dorian warren. a lot to talk about today. i want to talk really quickly. mark halperin, yesterday you talked about jeb bush having a horrific couple of days. and he has. it's in the papers this morning.

a funny piece, funny because it's true. i've been talking about how smart jeb is and how competent jeb is. the last three days have just been really bad for beb jusheb bush. what's up? >> it goes right to his core brand. a guy who says what he means and mean what's says. every republican -- >> so let's tell everybody first of all the big blunders. go ahead. >> he's given three answers now on how he feels about the iraq are war. first time he said he misunderstood the question, he said of course i'd be for the war. second time he said i don't know. and then yesterday he said i'm not going to say because it would be disrespectful to those who lost their lives. i'm not sure at this point what his position is. >> but you say something -- and this is what is so con founding. you say it's a fraught question for republicans. ask me, somebody who assumed the

iraq warcon founding. you say it's a fraught question for republicans. ask me, somebody who assumed the iraq war con founding. you say it's a fraught question for republicans. ask me, somebody who assumed the iraq war, ask me the question. >> was it a good idea? >> no it was a horrible idea, as bad as sticking your face in a blender. >> knowing what we know now, would we do the same thing? >> no, absolutely not. but when you make horrible mistakes, you tobtsuyou don't repeat them. and nicole, this is what is so confounding. republicans agree. if mr. pea body gave them -- is it peabody? the way back machine. you'd go back to march 15th, you know, 2003 -- >> i pass. i'm not going to go to war. >> what's wrong with jeb bush? this is like a mental thing. he said that his brother would be his first -- his adviser on the middle east? no. no. no. herbert hoover you don't want him being your top economic

adviser in 1932. >> nicolle go. >> where have you been willie? >> that was a deflection. >> what's up with jeb? >> okay. so here is what jeb might have said. i don't work for jeb i don't talk to jeb. >> blah, blah, blah. >> i haven't e-mailed him so i don't know how he feels about the question and how he fielded it the first or second time. >> what's he doing? >> what i think he might have done that might have felt comfortable was to refer to decision points for george w. bush writes about the fact that the intelligence wasn't just wrong, it was false. and he has a sickening feeling every time he thinks about that. >> george w. says it's false, sickening. jeb is still saying they would fight the war. >> and he's paying a big price for it. >> but here's why. we need to know why. >> i know why. >> i know why. >> tell me why. >> i mean, he got on the phone with people whose husbands and

fathers had died and so i think it's very difficult to say, you know, it wasn't worth -- i think going back and relitigating iraq is something we'll do here for a period. >> but it was a mistake. >> the problem with his answer is that he gave us something to talk about for a week. it's like hillary clinton and her e-mails. i mean, he gave us something to talk about. and the inability to say what george w. bush has said that it was flat out false intelligence and the thought of everything that we did over intelligence that was false the case that was made at the u.n., colin powell sat will with intelligence that sat there to be rubbish. >> so it was all a lie. so every one of us, if i asked you should we have fought the war, what would you say? >> well, we would not have fought the war if we knew what we know now. i mean john kerry was asked -- >> so just say that. why won't jeb say that? >> far be it from me to be the one to defend jeb bush. >> bring it on. >> i'm for hillary obviously,

but one thing about the bush family that i admire is they have tremendous loyalty to each other which quoef ridealmost overrides everything else. >> that explains the circuitry but it does not explain why he couldn't go to his brother's really beautiful articulation of exactly how he feels. >> i'm not saying it wasn't a mistake, and i don't defend it but i understand how this happened. i come from a family like that, too, we're unbelievably loyal to each other and sometimes you say things that you might not have said if it was something else not in your family. >> but not if you're running for president of the united states. >> i agree. >> not if you're running for president of the united states. >> he's also left open the possibility that maybe he thought the iraq war was a good idea. because there is an easy way to say that it wasn't and he won't say that. >> that's not right. i think what he said is that, listen john kerry said the same thing in 2004. by '04, we knew there were

problems with the intelligence. but what i think he got wrapped around the axle on is this time machine question that you were joking about at the beginning of the segment. but to go back in time -- >> but it was cleared up for him the next day. he screwed it up for the last two days. this is not hard. >> well, this is -- >> you have nothing to say. you were sweet yesterday, so we'll let you go. >> let's read gail collins' piece subtly titled wow jeb bush is awful. it reads in part, the bottom line is that so far he seems to be a terrible candidate. he couldn't keep his i'm my own man mantra going through the spring. he over-barbeled, he didn't know how to answer the iraq question which should have been the first thing he tackled on the first

day he thought about running for president. is this a problem for the bush chasm, but and you big one for the nation's army of concerned citizens. there are lots of americans who will not vote with that next year, but have found comfort in the idea that jeb bush would almost certainly be the republican nominee. if the version we've been seeing lately is the one we'll be stuck with, then one of the other republican contenders is going to win. >> mark halperin, again, for many people, equally disturbing is that jeb bush said that his top adviser in the middle east is george w. bush. >> every republican who is thinking of running for president who is already in the race will have their path to the quhous white house and the nomination made a lot easier if they can get jeb bush out. part of his problem is everybody this the party is piling on him because they want him to be weakened. >> how key not be prepared for this question, just like how could hillary not have been prepared for the foreign donations question.

these two giants in hair respective party shoes haveies should have seen this coming. >> he had an answer in the past that has beenhair respective parties should have seen this coming. >> he had an answer in the past that has been sharper, but i think he'll have to find a better answer that unties him a little bit from his brother and takes the position i think that you've taken although not everybody in the bush administration of his brother agrees. he'll have to take the position that the war was an error. but i don't think he thinks that. my understanding is he thinks on balance it was good that saddam hussein was removed. >> the thing is, nicolle, you could say the war was in error. it was terrible. a lot of men and women fought bravely and sacrificed a lot and many sacrificed everything they had. and by 200092009, 2010, there had been stability brought to the region. and they did a lot of things right. but the initial decision, the original sin, was dead wrong. >> but here's the opportunity that he missed. he missed an opportunity to

relitigate the status of forces agreement. iraq was stable enough that president obama and vice president biden were actually both seeing about having a place where al qaeda was in retreat. so it's not a partisan point to make that iraq was in a pretty good place in 2009 when the status of forces agreement -- bob gates writes about it in his book. so the missed opportunity is instead of forcing a debate between the republicans and democrats about the current iraq the iraq that we faced despite that mistake, because of the faulty intelligence, we're now relitigating 2003. >> i think you're on to something when you said he missed the opportunity to actually echo his brother on regret given the knowledge that we have now. and to even tap into the emotional part of that. but i think it almost seems like he's been surrounded by advisers or his own thinking to say i've got a to got to cancel out hillary, every

time i talk about iraq, i have to point out that she was, too. it was a misjudgment. >> the most illuminating moment was when he was asked the iraq question, he dpts go to his owe poe fentss who are the other 19 men and one woman running in the republican primary. he went straight to hillary. so i hope that as a campaign, they are laser focused on the other rms, srepublicans. >> the reason why, most of the republicans that he's running against will have absolutely no problem saying george w. bush was dead wrong. and our party and our country and our military paid a terrible price for that. >> marco rubio didn't say that in his foreign policy speech yesterday. >> well, maybe marco can come out and say he would have fought the war regardless anyway. i think at the end ever the dafr tever the of the day, like you said, it's family loyalty.

i went after his brother pretty hard, a comment here or there. nothing mean or whatever, but i could tell it's kind of like pushing back. hey, stop talking about my brother. >> you can't do that with the bushes. they're all in it together. >> and i respect them for that. >> i do too. we're like that, too in the dean family in a much smaller scale. family loyalty matters. look, one of the problems that i think nicolle just brought up he is already running against hillary clinton. and that's a problem. that was the mistake that people thought hillary made in 2008. is this the coronation, you don't run against the opposition until you've managed to vanquish the 19 people in your primary. >> i want to get dorian into the conversation. let me read from the "washington post". something is stirring in the religious world, this is about all focused around the conversation about poverty and the event at georgetown this week. we will regard poverty as a haunting national problem or will the focus groups continue to tell politicians of all

stripes to talk only about the middle class because mentioning the poor is politically toxic? might the condition of low income americans galvanize religious people to see alleviating poverty and writing social in-justice as moral issues? the habit in political writing when discussing moral issues is to refer only to abortion or gay marriage. but what implicates morality more than the way we as a society and as individuals treat those who are cut off from the ladders of advancement and the treasures of prosperity. >> and dorian, we've been talking about it here for some time. i've been talking about matthew 25 christians for a decade now, is the fact that we now have a pope and we have evangelicals that are focusing on first things. what jesus focused on. taking care of the poor. >> that's right. we have a pope that has been very vocal about elevating the issue of global poverty and putting it on the agendas of governments around the world. and e.j. always has his finger

on what is happening in the religious world. he knows evangelical christians are also starting to take up issues above poverty and the environment, which could be a problem frankly for many in the republican primary who will have to answer some questions around their positions on solving poverty and inequality. we know both parties are both talking about this. at that forum at georgetown where the president spoke the other day, moderated by e.j. we also had arthur brooks from the american enterprise institute on that panel who has been talking to many republican candidates about issues of poverty and wanting to find a different way forward on solving the problem. he's basically saying to republican kand catcandidate, we need new policy, we need to craft another story around how we tackle pofr ivertypoverty. >> and i don't think it's a which will think for the republican party. i think it's changing the republican party. arthur brooks said the reason i i became a free market

conservative was because what i cared about the most was the poor. and i believe this was the best way to alleviate suffering. you see what the president said you see what arthur brooks says and other people have said. e.j. goes wait a serksdcond, maybe both sides can work together. >> polling data we got ten years ago know, i was wondering why evangelicals didn't vote for democrats because if you look at the red letter version of the bible, jesus was probably the left of the democratic party. so we did polling. and here's what we found. this is ten years ago he. evangelicals over 555 it was all about abortion and gay marriage. upnder 35, number one issue was poverty, number two issue was climate change. >> and they support marriage equality under 30. >> we didn't poll for that. >> it's changed. >> i always said when i first got to congress in '94, young people were talking about abortion gay marriage social issues. by the time i left, i i told this a million time it fits in

here, that i would have young christians want to talk about two thing, poverty and aids in africa. you could talk to them about economic, but they want to talk about poverty and aids in african. it is a great change coming. >> a lot of synchronicity in this generation. i think conservative and liberal terms will be meaningless when it new generation comes in to power. in >> i agree. a new york city police officer saves the life of his partner. up next, a closer look at just how dangerous it can be for the men and women in uniform. go get help, boy. go get help. go get help!

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police in new york say they were forced to shoot a man who lunged at an officer with a hamner his hand. you see two uniformed officers approaching 30-year-old david barrel before he began swinging a hammer at a female officer striking her as she backs away. per partner fires four shots hitting the man in the arm. nypd says barrel has a history of mental illness and is believed to have attacked four other people in the city with a hammer. incidents like that remind us how dangerous it can be for police officers and the split second decisions they need to make while serving and protecting .in. a new special highlights three police officers who showed exceptional courage. take a look. >> if you're not scared or concerned, there is something wrong. nobody gets up in the morning looking to get into a shooting. i knew what i had to do. i raised my gun up on him.

i transitioned to my training. relax, breathe, this is what you've trained for. he will make a mistake. >> what is happening to your body? >> i'll so amped up. my heart is racing. but i was able to control myself, my feeling, my fear. >> and with us in studio this morning, three officers featured in the document taker. ivan marcono, julie olson, and sergeant hector feliciano. also with us the woman behind the special, legal analyst. ladies, gentlemen, thank you so much for being with us. let me start with you, ricky. what was the concept behind this? >> i witnessed in real time hector feliciano who is sitting next to me in l.a. commit his acts of valor. i saw it on the news. i was at his medal of valor ceremony.

and from that experience i felt sorry stories like hector's needed to be told. in today's world when we have about six or so incidents that are defining police as being brutal and racist and arbitrary, these people give a voice to a story that needs to be part of this national debate. >> officer olson, it doesn't matter really, does it whether it's los angeles, new york or maplewood, minnesota. i mean it comes with the job each time you go out the door to work. there is an element of danger every day on your job. what do you think goes on or the reaction in the media to the job of police is thisdo you think we do a good enough job covering what you do are or understanding what you do? >> i think the media does a pretty good job. i think it would be nice to see a little bit more positive

coverage on the police. >> officer, let's me ask you here in new york city, talk about the incident that is laid out in the documentary. you were off duty at the time. you saw a robbery in progress. >> yes. >> what was the instinct that kicked in even though you were off duty to step in? >> i think at that point, you know, seeing someone in need of help regardless off duty or on duty, i think any officer would want to assist and that's what went through my mind. i see someone in need, i see someone in trouble. and you just want to help them out. >> is there an element of fear? >> of course. you know, you have three guys you have one individual, and you have a victim. and you don't know -- >> and you want to describe a little bit what else happened on that day? >> when i walked to the scene i see a male getting robbed. and i realize it was armed robbery. at that moment i saw two male one with a gun, victim tapping ingstanding

in front of him and a male about five feet next to him. and i saw this guy bleeding from -- the victim from his head. and at that moment i knew this was serious. and i approached the victim and the perp and identified myself. when the perp turned around he had the gun now facing me. and we stared at each other. and next thing i know, i was shot in the chest. >> sergeant feliciano, how to you handle the fear? >> you fall back on your training in everything that you're doing. your beliefs. if you're religious, you kind of fall back on that. your belief, your morals, your training. and just hope that when the time comes, you know you're able to

put it together and be able to react accordingly. >> are sergeant officer, we're all grateful for what you do every day. i know people in your cities and communities are grateful, as well. and rikki, thank you for bringing us the story. in the line of fire debuts this sunday night on investigation discovery. thank you all very much. >> thank you. coming up, a live report from the scene on the train derailment in philadelphia. plus we'll talk to the waurl street journal reporter who first broke the news about the train's brake neck speed of 106 miles an hour. out of 42 vehicles based on 6 different criteria, why did a panel of 11 automotive experts name the volkswagen golf motor trend's 2015 car of the year? we'll give you four good reasons. the volkswagen golf. starting at $19,295, there's an award-winning golf for everyone.

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coming up at the top of the hour, first responders are being praised for their heroic actions during the deadly train derailment in philadelphia. we'll look at a father and son who both risked their own lives to help the victims. plus the heated debate on capitol hill as lawmakers vote whether to cut funding for amtrak by more than $250 million. and up next, we're now hearing from attorneys for the train's engineer. what he says his client does and does not remember.

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the train was traveling at approximately 106 miles per hour. >> more than twice the posted speed limit as it entered the curve. >> surveillance video shows the train speeding by and then three distinct flashes of light. >> we're learning more about that train engineer brandon bostian. he has handed over his cell phone and provided a blood sample. >> some of amtrak's equipment has been described as antique. >> deferred maintenance and lack of attention really makes it almost a third world operation. >> the fight over funding for amtrak flared up. >> we failed to invest if their safety. >> the suggestion that we hadn't funded it that's what caused that accident and you have no idea. and that's a shame p. >> as we're having this press conference our infrastructure -- >> they talk about funding intra structure every single day. but the answer is the not always a bigger check.intrastructure every single day. but the answer is the not always

a bigger check. >> experts insist ptc could make accidents like this a thing of the past. >> we feel had such a system been installed in this section of track, this accident would into the have not have occurred. >> welcome back to "morning joe". we begin this hour with the deadly train derailment in philadelphia which is now being blamed for seven deaths. the search for answers is already yielding startling discoveries thanks to the black box. according to investigators train 188 was traveling more than 100 miles an hour when it derailed, more than twice the speed limit. >> so how does that happen? >> without an alarm sounding. >> metro north accident, over the holidays? >> january, yeah. >> january. how does that happen? >> very similar. >> we were just talking about 106 miles an hour, much faster than the acela goes, the high

speed version. that's an incredible rate of speed for that train. >> and why is it that you don't have like the guy that came on and talked about kidneys of dalmatians, which i thought was one of the more colorful descriptions, why is it that we don't just put two people up there so if a guy falls asleep or -- >> i don't know the answer. maybe it's cost. i don't know. >> i have no idea why amtrak runs the way it runs. i mean it's clearly lack of money. the rail bibs are 30, 40 50 years old. the commuter rail owns part of the lines for instance on the acela line computer rail owns the line from new haven to new york, so the train has to slow down. but to willie's point, it doesn't question as fast as that train was going last night. >> so let's talk republican to republican here because a lot of times -- i grew up -- >> different language. >> whatever. but when you actually look at the economic realities and look

at the fact that for yes, it's in the northeast, but also -- >> is that doctor we're against it? >> i guess it is. no, but what i'm saying is you have so much of the economy centered here. and from boston all the way down to washington so many man and woman hours lost every day. you have richard haas bringing in statistics from the council on foreign relations that this costs us billions and billions of dollars every year. why don't we aggressively support infrastructure when this means good business, more money, bigger economy? >> and why didn't we find the amtrak corridor in every part of the country. i know that infrastructure spending gets bogged down in regional politics, but there is an infrastructure crisis in every part of the country and i don't know why we didn't steal this issue from the democrats. joe biden said the truest thing i've ever heard, that our area airports are like those in a third world country.

why don't we as republicans take this on and find a conservative way that puts money back into the economy. i think in this republican primary, we'll have a pretty in-tenin- in-depth conversation about education. i don't see how we see people getting to these hubs of higher learning if we don't have ways to get them there. i don't know why we don't seize this issue and outflank them on infrastructure spending. >> we have the chinese can doubling, tripling down on investment on education r&d. it is investment in your economy, investment in your country, investment in the main arteries of the free market. >> and it's almost as if we're kind of following behind the accidents. at this point -- >> yes the last time we raised spending was when there was a fatal train crash. >> and it they put in the ptc after. which, great. >> let me ask you a question. in washington what do you think is a more powerful lobly the highway lobby to build more roads or the railroad lobby to

extend railroads to the middle of this country or into rural areas in this country? the highway lobby. >> at the end, the greatest lobbyists are the voters. and i think you're right we come up with a plan that gets somebody to work in 40 minutes instead of two hours, i mean, you can make a big difference in some of these areas. but you're right, though, there has long been a lobby against a sane transportation system not only in the east coast, but also los angeles. we know why los angeles doesn't have a good rail system out there. because the auto industry didn't want them to have a good rail system there because it would take are cars off the road. anybody that has driven up 95, anybody that has trip up the hutch or the merritt, anybody trying to move around the northeast with their families knows it's unsustainable. we have to get cars off the

road. >> where are the two leaders of the senate from? nevada and i can kykentucky. it's not a priority in this country. it's a priority in the northeast and west coast other than that, it's not a priority. >> i think we he said up talking about this in a very political regional way. and i think there is infrastructure --ss falling down in every state. and i think all of the politics around infrastructure spending have ruined the system for the voters. >> back it your question about why not two people in the cab. i think the short answer, now we have technology, we don't need two people in the cab. so we can save a job. turns out there isn't ptc everywhere it needs to be. let's go to philadelphia. and i thanyman mohyeldin is there. for people just waking up, reset the scene if you would. >> reporter: yeah, absolutely.

good morning. the scene here is still very active. in fact in the past couple of minds, we've seen oversized trucks make their way in and around the crash site, an indication perhaps that officials are begin to go prepare to move the flipped over or turned over carts. we know that they will be taking them to a secure location to continue the investigation. the investigation now focusing really on two different component, one obviously the factor of speed, more importantly the engineer behind the train and the derailment at the time that it took place. but there are also going to be a lot of questions surrounding the machines involved in this. earlier today, you had chance to speak to one of the ntsb board members robert sumwalt. here's what he said. >> everything is on the table. we certainly want to understand why this train was doing more than twice the authorized speed. so we'll be looking at the human, the machine, and that's really what we're looking at at this point.

>> reporter: now when he's say looking at the human factor they're also trying to establish a time line about the engineer, brandon bastion more importantly, the time line employment records, raps what he was doing in the past 24 hours. he's already handed over his cell phone he's given a blood stamp and an initial interview. the ntsb says they have not yet had a chance to speak to him. they plan on speaking to him today or tomorrow as well as conducting several other interviews. in terms of examining the machine component, they have already recovered the data recorder, downloading some of the information on that, looking at the forward facing camera. they're also going to be testing the braking system. could there perhaps have been a mechanical error that prevented bastion from being able to slow down the train. there are questions as to whether it was a result of a mechanical failure, or perhaps human error. >> and investigation whether tell us that. it will take a little while. thanks so much. joining us now "wall street journal" reporter ted mann, he's

covered transportation for years and broke the news about just how fast that train was traveling. ted, good to have you back with us. when that tweet came across yesterday from your reporting that simply said 106 miles an hour, i think we all gasped. how can a regional train traveling on that track reach speeds of 106 miles an hour when it was supposed to be going 50? >> the speed is well within the capability of the train. it just obviously shouldn't be doing that in a section of a sharply curving track. we don't know why the engineer had the train up well over the speed limit, not just of the curve where it's a 50-mile-per-hour limit, but everyone above the 70 to 80 of the straighter stretch leading up to the curve. that's a critical question for the investigators to figure out. but these trains go that fast in other areas of the corridor very near where this was. the way this system works and the way signal system that was in place on that stretch of amtrak works is there is still a lot of responsibility on the engineer to know his territory

and to know when he needs to slow down for an obstacle or hazard like a sharp curve. that's very similar to what happened in the bronx on metro north also. >> but even on a straightaway, am i wrong that train wouldn't be traveling 106 miles an hour, would it? >> there are straight sections of the corridor where -- i doubt it would be the maximum speed limit would permit that, but you there are trains that go very close to that and the capability of the locomotives and the trains is close to that. you see speed limits in the 890, 90 range. the bigger question is not how could a train get up to this speed because we know they have the power to do so. they all do. but the bigger question is why was there not some sort of precaution that would have prevented reaching this speed going into something you know is a civil hazard like a curve. >> help us out with the ptc. we've been talking about the positive train control a technology that has been around for several years now that

helps. it would have prevented this accident the ntsb said very bluntsly. because if person didn't slow down the train, the ptc would. why wouldn't it be in place on such a major stretch of track? >> i think the short answer is money and time. these systems are very expensive to put in. they're very complex to build. the technology is certainly there. but actually developing and installing it is taking a long time for amtrak and also for commuter railroads and for freight railroads across the country. but amtrak, you know, has been telling a lot of people for a long time that they will make the deadline. which is december 31st of this year to have all of their networks outfitted with this technology. but if you look closely it no longer really looks like that. they say they have done about 400 miles of track with ptc and they have about 1200 to go. it just doesn't look like they will make it on time.

>> and sadly too late for the victims of this accident. ted mann thanks so much. you look at the "daily news," map and you just -- that says it all right there. somebody saying there is no way in the world he would have gone 106 miles an hour in the turn. i don't know if he was asleep or what was going on. but turned over his cell phone and also again toxicology reports. >> they're waiting i think 124 hours to talk to him. very traumatized. all right. let's go back to politics. mark halperin, we were talking over the past 30 minutes about jeb bush and the problems with jeb bush. and you were saying that you have been getting word that there is real concern in bush land and that support may be going to another candidate. not because of this but just in

general some of the biggest donors in the gop really starting 20-to- starting to scratch their heads. >> some of the biggest donors, some of the other governor, comes at a time when jeb bush's stumble comes at a time when a lot of people are looking at marco rubio and saying the party need as fresh face. a lot of the biggest donors look at mitt romney's experience look at going up against hillary clinton, and they're just all over things being equal are more inclined towards marco rubio and to some extent scott walker than they are towards jeb bush and his stumbles undermines as i said before both his competence reputation and tied up with the bush brand, which is the worst enemy he has. so i still think he's in a strong position, but this comes at a really bad time for him as donors are starting to think about who do we want to be the face of the republican party. >> haven't you found that marco rubio seems to be the default answer for the alternative to jeb right now 1234 sfwr?

>> in a big because because of high profile speeches and the party would like the face of the republican party again all other things being equal to be the future and jeb bush getting tied up in his brother's administration makes him a bush and a past and they want the future. >> so let's be blunt. what if marco was the frontrunner, how would that look for marco, would he last a week a month? >> he'll have to deal with a lot of scrutiny. he's had one tough "new york times" story last weekend and otherwise he's on quite a good run. and the bush people are clearly frustrated. you look at what rubio said yesterday about iraq. his answer yesterday as compared to an answer he'd given previously on fox was not a very consistent or great abc. he's not getting the samd kind of scrutiny. i think one of the biggest questions this year in the entire republican nomination fight will be how did marco rubio handle scrutiny. >> jeb bush, ben carson scott walker mike huckabee all at the

top of the fox new poll. those polls don't mean an awful lot right now obviously just because we -- they mean nothing at this point. but jeb bush is getting hammered right now. what would marco rubio's world look like if marco were in first place and all the guns were focused on him? >> marco rubio's foreign policy is one i admire very much, but it chos closely aligns with george w. bush world view. all these trips easthe's boasting about, he lines up with george w. bush. so it's ironic that he's gaining politically from jeb bush's stumble. i think if jeb bush becomes nominee, he will be hardened by weeks like this. hillary clinton has had a bad month. jeb bush has had a bad week. i don't think that this harsh scrutiny is unfair when you're

the frontrunner. that's what you get. but i do think it makes you a better candidate. >> and the thing is that the difference here, and we were talking about this on "the view" yesterday, jeb is actually talking. and when you experience these dust ups these slip up whatever you want to call them, you do get better. >> we did have this conversation on the"the view". hillary clinton is not paying a price for not talking to unpre-screened voters and not talking onned talking to the media. jeb bush is paying a huge price for doing the exact same thing. he took questions from a college student. i don't remember the last time anyone in either party took a question from a college student of the other party. >> after a town hall meeting in reno, jeb was confronted by a member of the local college owned democrats who pressed him on isis. take a look. >> there has been 30,000 --inaudible

] no employment, no income -- [ inaudible ] if you could just answer my question. why are you saying isis was created by us -- >> because by the time we -- >> -- have to die for the idea of american exceptionalism. [ inaudible ] >> we respectfully disagree. there was security al qaeda had been taken out, there was a fragile system, secretary tear began violence when we had apn agreement -- >> so go ahead, nicolle. >> he looked at me like that once and i think i pitched like

35 satellite interviews at 4:00 in the morning. so she was a college democrat, she was not kept out of the event and she was not prevented from getting that close to jeb bush. i don't think that hillary clinton would get that close to a college democrat. she hasn't yet. so let's give him credit for that. she walked up to him and accused his -- she said your brother created isis. he engaged her in a foreign policy conversation. and it was tense. but he raised what he should have raised in the megan kelly interview and what he should have said monday that the status of forces agreement, when that didn't happen,kelly interview and what he should have said monday that the status of forces agreement, when that didn't happen, when we failed, that's when isis had its rise. which as far as the time table, that is true. >> so in the long run, mike you can always talk about political athletes. jeb bush can actually go and talk to anybody because he is. he is a very bright guy. i see one republican candidate that is challenging jeb after

another, guys i really like a lot and i might vote for. but they go overseas. they go -- and they're kind of like hillary. because they don't know foreign policy. they go overseas for two, three, four days and they refuse to talk to the press. whether they're in israel or whether they're in london or whether they're anywhere else in the world. because they don't know foreign policy. say what you will of jeb bush, he's a political athlete, he's smart as hell and he'll probably survive because of that. >> scott walker basically hid from the press in israel the past three or four days. but my question mark halperin, you've been out there, you've polled this different states. you've been in different states. my question to is rooted around the fact i think it's legitimate that most americans voting for president as a vote for the future. so if you have hillary clinton versus jeb bush, what element of the past versus the past happens there and what does it do to the

electorate electorate? >> nothing says fundamental change as much as a clinton/bush. they both have that burden. until and unless she faces elizabeth warren or somebody strong nuchenough to baet her, i think she brings that into the general election. that constant hammering, it's a real rob. it ties him to the past in a way that he's miss handled and just reinforces the discussion bush bush, bush. >> hillary would be helped by a strong opponent but she won't get it. >> that's the reality. and with the clip of jeb and the college student, a lot of people are hating that people who

worked for bush as an ugly moment on the trail. i thought that was a great refreshing moment. young woman with a point of view, he respectfully listens to her question, lets her get through it and then gives a substantive answer. i'd love to see more of that. >> and we knock hillary for not going in to crowds and talking to any human beings that aren't controlled. but what republican candidate you've seen going over -- >> not since john mccain. none. >> they just don't did to it. they're so scared. why? marco seems relaxed but i don't know. unbelievable, you're right, it's freshing that a republican candidate actually has the guts to talk to a democrat who is yelling at him and being patient. more patient than most of us. >> still ahead on "morning joe," former cabinet secretary in charge of america's rail system ray lahood joins the conversation. plus former new york governor

george pataki. up next senator pat toomey and bob casey are standing by. we'll ask them what should come next after tuesday's deadly train crash in their home state of pennsylvania. before earning enough cash back from bank of america to buy a new gym bag. before earning 1% cash back everywhere, every time and 2% back at the grocery store. even before he got 3% back on gas. kenny used his bankamericard cash rewards credit card to join the wednesday night league. because he loves to play hoops. not jump through them. that's the excitement of rewarding connections. apply online or at a bank of america near you.

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what amtrak has is among the are poorest that i've ever seen given the level of use they get the accumulated deferred maintenance and lack of attention really makes it almost a third world operation. >> that was former amtrak ceo painting an unsettling picture of the state of amtrak's operations. joining us now in an exclusive joint appearance are bob casey and pat toomey. thanks for being with us. >> senators obviously our thoughts and prayers are with the people if your state that are suffering because of this. what can you tell us about the investigation and what you know so far? >> well just in terms of what we were presented with yesterday, kind of an overview of what happened at the scene, but what we know i think is very similar on what most people know because the news reporting on

this has been pretty comprehensive. i think everyone could see this is pretty evidence, the great leadership of the mayor and the police and fire, fire department department, we're impressed by how people came together under the most horrific of circumstances. but -- and i think we'll learn things if not on a dailyelily basis in a short time frame are more about what happened. but i think there is still an awful lot we have to learn. >> nor too manysenator toomey, can you explain to people who don't live in in the northeast why there is such an incredible lack of priority when it comes to maintaining maintaining amtrak, when it comes to upgrading amtrak, when it comes to creating jobs that could be created by improving the system? why is there such an astounding

lack of priority here? >> that's a good question. part of it of course is the fact that amtrak dedicates a lot of resources to places where they don't have many customers. a lot of trains are running empty around the country when there is a corridor in the northeast that is running full. in fact i ride that train twice a week most weeks. not that particular train. sometimes that train. but i'm on amtrak all the time. and often the trains sell out. so i think it's a legitimate question about how the resources get allocated. >> nor casesenator casey i add my condolences to the people there. what concerns have you had, i assume you've traveled amtrak a good bit most members of congress have at one point or another, have you had concerns about amtrak in the past safety or otherwise? >> well, i've been for years talking about more resources. i don't think we know enough yet in this circumstance to create a

readily identifiable nexus between what happened in this tragedy and the question of resources. but i believe that before the tragedy and still believe it. but i think we've got to set aside some of the debates about funding right now to make sure that we know all the facts this this circumstance. i do think, though, when the ntsb says very specifically that a positive train control system can help i think we have to take that very seriously and act on that. we know it will be -- it is part of our law now. we need to may go sure it's implemented so we have a measure of control that can override human are error.go sure it's implemented so we have a measure of control that can override human are error. >> senators, thank you very much. >> thanks for being with us. again our thoughts and prayers are with you. let us know if we can do anything or get the info out to help. coming up, america's number one. or is it? we'll talk to the author who looks to answer that question.

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of defense cuts. our navy at pre-world war 1 levels. and our air force with the smallest and oldest combat force in its history. >> that was marco rubio yesterday with a critical look at the state of the military under president obama. squoib joining us now anne gearan and joseph nye jr., author of the book is the american century over? good to have you both on board. >> great to have you with us. i'm certainly not picking on marco rubio because i say this about people in both parties. but when you have a defense budget that is $550 billion and everybody is arguing they need more money you're wondering whether we're having a debate centered in 1971 or a debate in 2015. and that's a very important question to ask about american power, which you've examined.

the old metrics that we used to measure power is not going to be the same metrics that matters 20 years from now. primarily military spending, right. >> well, we have to have a serious military budget. and that's what i call heart power. but you also have to have what i call soft power, the ability to attraction. and that comes out of your -- in fact bob gates when he was secretary of defense once said that the -- and this is back in bush 43 administration. the problem we have we don't invest in soft power. and we need both. >> $550 billion pentagon budget do we need more? >> i don't think we need more if we could allocate it the way we want. the problem is congress keeps allocating the budget to things which suits their needs as opposed to our defense needs. if i could do it myself or some expert could do it you might be able to cut the against budget. but if it goes through the congress and you add a lot of

things like health and breast can sister cancer and other things are put in the defense budget, you need more. >> every 20 years we find a new enemy that will overtake us. in the '60s, the soviets were going to democrat nature us. in the '80s, it was japan. now it's china.nature us. in the '80s, it was japan. now it's china. what is your take on the latest and greatest to overtake america, china? >> the united states has a long history of thinking their opponents are 10-feet tall and it turns out that china won't be 10-feet tall any more than the soviets or the japanese were. >> there is a growing realization over the past year or two the problems with pollution, problems with corruption problems with internal dissent. they're all great weights on the chinese that we don't have. >> chinese have a number of problems. for one thing, we're getting older. with the one child policy, you're not getting the young chinese to replace the older chinese. in addition to it that they

have a difficulty of how do they change their growth model to become more innovative. and a third problem they face is politics. when a country gets to about $10,000 per capita income, there is a greater demand for political participation and they haven't figured out how to do that. >> willie i love this quote. european union is too track churfractured, japan is too old brazil is too unproductive. i'm feeling better about the u.s.. >> didn't leave a lot of the rest of the word.ld. how do you define the american september century? >> i started with world war ii. you could start it earlier and after world war i we were the most powerful country. then we turned inward into

isolationism. so we don't pick up being the leading country until after 1945. >> mark halperin has a question. >> professor if you were moderating a discussion between jeb bush, marco rubio, scott walker, what question would you ask them? >> a question i would want to ask them is how are you going to affect events in other parts of the world without getting overly involved. i mean, if you make the mistake of i think bush 43 made of trying to occupy iraq and turn it into a democracy, that's beyond our capacity. on the other hand, we can't turn or back on the middle easts because we have real interests there, whether it be israel or energy or nonproliferation or human rights. so in that sense i think the question i'd want to put to them, how are you going to discriminate between getting involved but not getting overinvolved. >> so with that as a backdrop

anne gearan, you've been writing about the presidential prospects and how iraq is still tripping them up. >> the iraq war has been over, certainly not out of the american political system but it's over. there is something very different happening in thousandthere now. but the daily bidody count and potent political forces that came out of the iraq war in the last presidential election you would think they would be gone by now. but candidates haven't figured out what to say about it. >> why? it doesn't seem hard for 99% of americans. it was a mrs. take. there was faulty intelligence. you paid a terrible price. >> i think you're right.mrs. take. there was faulty intelligence. you paid a terrible price. >> i think you're right. it isn't a hard question to say was the war a success knowing what we know now, 99% of the people, including at this point

a significant majority of republicans, architects of it themselves, say, yeah, we shouldn't have done what we did. however, it is still sort of fresh political history. and certainly for jeb bush there is the -- >> what is marco rubio's position on the war? it seems to change a little bit. >> i don't think he gave a great answer on that yesterday. he sort of fumbled around a bit himself. but he's in the consensus that knowing what we know now we wouldn't have done exactly the same thing because of the faulty intelligence. i think this is not something that goes away for jeb, though. >> it took some prodding during the 2008 campaign a, but hillary clinton finally did say my iraq authorization vote was a mistake. she said it again clearly in her book i got it wrong. does that continue to haunt her in the 2016 campaign that vote? >> it's really gone away for her more largely because of what she said in the book where she clearly called it a mistake.

and owned it in a way that she just couldn't quite bring herself to do in 2007 2008. obviously her position then remains highly unpopular with liberal democratic base voters. but they already knew that about her. i think it's not a huge factor for her at this point. >> professor i want to end with you. we've been talking about great challenges. and you certainly in your lifetime have faced your own share of great challenges and perhaps the greatest was having to deal with dr. burzynski. >> yes, my father. you worked with him? >> he was a tough one, wasn't he? >> i loved that he was loyal to secretary of state, but every once in a while if there was a decision where i felt that state wasn't quite right, i'd see who he could move. akon fess that the truth was somewhere between the two. >> it always is. >> police don't tell him that.

i'm sure he's still fighting that war. how funny is that. all we ever needed to know about dr. burzynski was while jimmy carter was wearing cardigan sweaters and forcing everybody to keep their thermostats at what 68 degrees or something -- >> i don't know. >> you you couldn't turn the air conditioning on until if got up to 72 or 73. he actually would take a lamp and put it right by the thermostat. >> his office was cool. the book is the american september curryoccur century over. thank you so much. anne gearan, thank you, as well. coming up -- this got awkward. >> i may leave again. >> i don't think he knew what do with himself about. >> jeremy piven took method

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you just fed your lawn earlier this spring and now you're at it again. scott: (chuckles) indeed, a crucial late spring feeding helps defend the grass against the summer heat to come. nbr: we knew that - right guys? oh yeah! scott: feed your lawn. feed it! last night we failed them. we failed to invest in their safety. we failed to make their safety a priority. and it's not just our trains, mr. chairman this is our bridges that are failing these are highways that are copngested and riddled with pothole, our run way, our aefrptirports, our broadband. we should have been subsidizing the safety of the passengers on that train yesterday. this is a matter of simple

priorities. >> i was disappointed to hear my colleague from new york a few minutes ago talk about the tragedy that occurred with amtrak and suggest that because we had not funded this properly, that that's with a caused the accident. when you have no idea, no idea, what caused this accident. and to use that as a means of supporting the last amendment, support it if you want to but don't use this tragedy in that way. it was beneath you. >> so this one was using it actually? that was the heated exchange between congressman steve israel of new york and mike simpson of idaho yesterday after the house appropriations committee voted to cut federal funding for amtrak 12 hours after the derailment. joining us now, nation editor

"time" magazine, ben goldberger. welcome back. every oversaw the report in "time". >> my take is this is a very sad week for transportation, for the families that lost loved ones, for the people that were injured. but also for the fact that there is no leadership on capitol hill, there is no courage on capitol hill. the transportation bill expires in a few days. the highway trust fund is broke. america is one big pothole. our infrastructure is crumbling. investment in infrastructure is investment in american people, the people that builds the roads and bridges. it helps our economy. investing in infrastructure is a win/win and people here behind me on capitol hill simply don't

get it. >> ray, we didn't always agree in the republican party. you thought i was a member of the lunatic fringe on the far right. and perhaps i was. proudly still claim to be a red hot. but at the same time, when i talk to republican groups very conservative people, and i say we need to invest in infrastructure, the chinese are doing it our enemies are doing it, our rivals are doing it, we need to do it, it's investment i've just never had anybody stand up i don't care how right wing they are, and say hell, no. i think most americans agree with that. where is the disconnect? >> they do, joe, because our investment is in the friends and neighbors, in the people who build the roads the people who take care of the roads. when somebody see as pothole being filled they know their tax dollars are being well

spent. we've always been a country that has invested in infrastructure. when we've done that, we've had a strong economy. and when we haven't done it, the largest segment of unemployment right now in america is in the building trades. people who build roads and bridges. this money doesn't stay in washington. goes back to america. goes back to the states. and infrastructure creates economic development and economic opportunity. and i simply think that republicans are short sighted have a blind spot, and in countries where they have invested in rail in china in japan, in europe, they have a great transportation system. we haven't done that. >> ben, i want to ask you because i think around this table we all agree with this assessment, but what is the other side? i mean i would guess that some republicans feel like maybe steve israel and the democrats were trying to use the tragedy to political gain. i would assume "time" magazine

presents both sides. >> political gain, they were using it as an opportunity to make the case for -- >> because that was the last time we increased rail funding was after a tragedy as well. >>2008. the last time congress agreed to raise amtrak's budget was after another rail tragedy. what the democrats were doing in effect was putting rahm emanuel's old axiom into practice, never let a serious crisis go to waste. it's an opportunity. to republicans, the argument is not that we need to give more money to amtrak because they're not saying that we shouldn't invest in infrastructure. their argument is that amtrak is a terrible steward of our nation's rail system, something they've proven in its decades of operation, it's a for-profit entity but it's never turned a profit so their case is that in many instances it's better turned over to a private corporation. >> mike? >> secretary lahood, listening to ben's answer and listening to you earlier but especially listening to congressman simpson from idaho and i would venture

to bet that there are more people who use amtrak on a daily basis from boston to washington than there are residents in idaho, my question to you is how much of thisry ryeluctance to improve amtrak, which would be the sensible thing for the national economy and amtrak itself, has to do with just regional political indifference to the needs that occur on both coasts of this country and in the middle of this country with rail transportation of people? >> i think you've hit it on the head here. if there were a tornado or a hurricane or a flood in the midwest or out west what would happen? congress would step up, they'd appropriate the money, they'd send all of their resources in. well we've sent a lot of resources in terms of ntsb but the idea that amtrak doesn't need more money to help with positive train control to implement that, the idea that amtrak doesn't need more

resources to fix up that area, the idea that amtrak doesn't need resources to take care of crumbling infrastructure is nonsense. if this were happening in other parts of the country where members of congress were affected you'd see a vote yesterday in that committee and on the house floor to take care of americans. >> all right. secretary ray lahood thank you so much. we really do appreciate it. >> thank you guys. >> before we go i just have to -- >> oh. >> dave letterman and mike's only guy that will remember like me when johnny carson left i thought there's no going to be anybody else that's going to be able to fill that space. dave letterman, and you guys point this out, he really did start a revolution. he changed everything about the way we laugh, what we laugh at. it can all be traced to when this guy went on the air in 1982. he changed everything. >> the rules of comedy are completely different because of his run and the piece in the new issue is a really wonderful

summation of exactly what he has done over his decades on air. there's also a fantastic piece from jimmy kimmel who's one of the people now attempting to pick up his mantle. >> i just read it it's great. >> he says his first appearance on letterman was the most important moment of his life, including the birth of his children. including. >> wow. okay. ben, thank you, the new issue of "time" magazine is out now. the cover story is entitled "the highly divisive curiously underfunded and strangely promising world of pot science." yeah. that looks fascinating. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." nt, thinking about people? why are we so committed to keeping you connected? why combine performance with a conscience? why innovate for a future without accidents? why do any of it? why do all of it? because if it matters to you it's everything to us. the xc60 crossover. from volvo. lease the well equiped volvo xc60 today. visit your local volvo showroom for details.

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coming up at the top of the hour details begin to emerge about the engineer of the amtrak train, train number 188. what his lawyer says he does and does not remember about when the train crashed we'll introduce you to those who died, the loved ones remembering them. everyone from a college dean to a member of the navy. and we'll look at the technology that could have saved their lives and why that train didn't have it. we're back in a moment. when account lead craig wilson books at laquinta.com. he gets a ready for you alert the second his room is ready. so he knows exactly when he can settle in and practice his big pitch. and when craig gets his pitch down pat, do you know what he becomes? great proposal! let's talk more over golf! great. better yet, how about over tennis? even better. a game changer! your 2 o'clock is here. oops, hold your horses. no problem. la quinta inns & suites is ready for you, so you'll be ready for business. the ready for you alert, only at lq.com.

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>> maximum authorized speed through this curve was 50 miles per hour. when the engineer induced brake application was applied, the train was traveling at approximately 106 miles per hour. three seconds later when the data to the recorders terminated, the train speed was 102 miles per hour. our mission is to find out not only what happened but why it happened so that we can prevent it from happening again. that's really what we're here for. we begin with the latest on the deadly amtrak derailment until philadelphia which is now being blamed for seven deaths. the search for answers is already yielding startling discoveries thanks to the train's black box, according to investigators with the national transportation safety board. train 188 was traveling more than 100 miles per hour when it

derailed. that would be more than twice the speed limit as the train began a turn before going off the tracks. officials are still trying to determine why the train was traveling so fast. they say an advanced safety system known as positive train control, had it been installed on this section of the track may have been able to prevent the crash completely. new security camera footage has emerged of the moment of impact which a witness says lit up the entire sky. the number of injured has also risen to more than 200 of the 243 people on board. and nbc news has confirmed this man, brandon bostian, the engineer of the train, train 188. police say he briefly spoke with them and gave them a blood sample. his attorney says his client has also handed over a cell phone and had this to say about what his client remembers about the crash. >> he remembers driving the train. he remembers going through that area generally. has absolutely no recollection

of the incident or anything unusual. the next thing he recalls is being thrown around, coming to finding his bag getting his cell phone and dialing 911. >> so the investigation into the engineer continues this morning. let's go to philadelphia. what's the latest in philly? >> reporter: good morning, willie. the scene behind me remains very active. we've seen some oversized trucks arrive to the scene, an indication that perhaps they're moving those carts. we know yesterday the ntsb says it released thing tras se tracks to amtrak. the word you're hearing from ntsb officials over and over again is timeline. they are trying to establish the time line for two important events. one, the timeline of the train once it left the train station from 9:10 p.m. to 9:21 when the derailment occurred but also the timeline of the engineer and what his life was like the past 24 hours and leading up to those

final fatal minutes. the train reached about 106 miles per hour in a turn meant to be about 50 miles. that's double the speed it was authorized to go around the curve. they're seeing if there's any problems with the track but more importantly they're downloading the data from the event recorder as well as that forward-facing front camera. that can reveal a lot about what happened at the time of the crash. all of this according tos in officials could have been prevented. here is what the ntsb board member robert sumwalt had to say at the press conference. >> we had called for positive train control for many many years. it's on our most-wanted list. congress is mandated it be installed by the end of this year we feel had such a system

been installed in this section of track this accident would not have occurred. >> that system was meant to prevent this incident that if the train was going about 100 miles per hour as it entered that curve it would have automatically forced the train to slow down regardless of what the cause of that acceleration was. this is something that had not been implemented or installed along the northeast corridor. officials are still looking for key pieces of evidence and still looking for those that have not been identified. >> a>> thank you so much. let's talk about that safety technology experts say may have prevented this tragedy. there was a similar accident in pain when a train flew off the rails going 111 miles an hour. that was twice the speed limit there as it headed into a turn. it left 79 people dead.

the same year in new york a metro-north engineer fell asleep as his train sped into a sharp curve at more than 80 miles an hour. that was almost three times the posted speed limit. that accident left four people dead. experts say technology called positive train control, ptc, could put an end to accidents like those and the one in philadelphia on tuesday night. it's a safety system that automatically slows trains down to enforce speed limits. it's in place along some sections of the northeast corridor track but not the location of tuesday's derailment. ptc is a system that uses sensors on the rails and inside the engine car as well as satellites to track a train's movement. if a train is going too fast, the system warns the crew. if the engineer does not slow down the train, the computer automatically activates brakes. >> we have patrick murphy with us. ed rendell as well perfect for this day. patrick, when we were talking yesterday morning. you talked about the train shaking or rattling just right

before the crash exactly what the front page of "new york times" says. a crazy shake and metal tearing and chaos. >> if we have this technology we have this tragedy in philadelphia, we had this tragedy on the metro-north, why don't we have it everywhere? >> this is not new technology. >> it's not complex why do we have it -- don't we have it? >> because amtrak has been underfunded for years now, joe. i testified before a senate committee and senator shelby said to me "governor, you mean -- you understand we subsidize --" >> ed with all due respect, i'm going to cut you off there. you can't blame how crappy metro-north is on an alabama senator. >> no, but i'm saying -- >> but come on, there's horrible mismanagement here on metro-north up and down amtrak, is there not? >> no question, but congress

mandated that ptc be put into effect this year. if they mandated it three or four years, the guy from the national safety board said this was on their most-wanted list. that i submit their most-wanted list to congress. the answer is we do underfund it. every train system in the world is subsidized, joe. every single one. europe asia. >> i have no problem funding it. in fact, i talk about funding infrastructure everyday on this show, okay? but the answer is not always a bigger check. i support that bigger check. but that's always the answer, something bad happened. we've got a massive $4.5 trillion budget every year. we can't afford this to save lives in philadelphia? that's my only point. we're on the same side on funding this stuff. but is there mismanagement in the system? >> amtrak has been asking for this for a while. congress just mandated it i guess last year in the budget.

>> and so -- and by this year they extended it in the senate subcommittee. joe, your point is right in that the ptc system is about $10 billion. what michael bloomberg and ed rendell and others are arguing for is a new vision on infrastructure and you, joe, on this show. that's serious money. we're not talking $10 billion, we're talking about a trillion dollars to make a difference. because americans out there, they want america to be number one. we don't want to be second to anybody. i hear frustrations. i care about the bottom line and part of leadership is looking at what the metrix are. we should be measuring performance as well. >> but you point is we don't want to shovel more money on top of a flawed system. we talked about the shovel-ready projects right, that president obama put into the stimulus package. what happened to that stimulus money? >> even the president said he found out later there weren't

shovel-ready projects. ed's been talking about an infrastructure bank forever. that's the approach. the reason why we need to fund exactly what you're talking about, what we're agreeing with is have you ever been up and down 95? have you ever been on the merit park way? have you ever tried to get anywhere in the northeast? we're coming to a stage in our civilization where we're going to look at the cars on the road and look at it as insanity. in congested areas here in california, across the country, why aren't more people going -- why can't we even do high-speed rail? why? you had the president on the council of foreign relations here yesterday talking about -- >> well, that was very revealing. >> our short funding in infrastructure, ed, is going to cost this economy 1% of gdp within the next five years. >> and the interesting thing is the better you make trains and mass transit, the more people ride it. joe, amtrak came to me when i

was governor and said "we want to cut the time on the harrisburg to philadelphia line from two hours to an hour and a half. we want $75 million from the state and we'll match it." we did it and in five years the ridership has gone from 898,000 to 1.5 million people. >> let's get a different perspective. joining us from cleveland ohio the president of the mo doc railroad academy david wrangle. he's also president in oregon. david, you not only own two records you've trained engineers. what stands out to you as you hear the information coming out in the last 24 hours about this incident? >> it's pretty maddening. i'm very disappointed. the answer is extremely low tech. i've advocated this for years. all we simply need to do is put another person in the cab of the locomotive, another conductor, another locomotive engineer. >> it's amazing, one person. >> one person, it can be implemented this afternoon. it could be implemented in an

hour. low-tech, save hundreds of millions of dollars. the ptc system while it's coming, it's like the sky car, it's on the horizon they've been talking about it for years, i believe implementation is slow, rolling out slow. but i draw the analogy between railroads and aircraft. today's modern jet, fly by wire, doesn't need anybody up in the flight deck but we still have two pilot there is for safety. one to watch the other. >> what would that second person in the cab do? >> he would be there to watch the track, watch the engineer, take orders and communicate with the dispatcher. there's -- it's a very busy environment, especially on that section of railroad. there's a lot of communication going on between the train and the control tower, between the train and the crew itself, between other trains. watching for signals watching out for what's going along the

road. the reality is, we have a person there running the train that's a human being. they get tired. they get sleepy. they may have eaten something at the taco truck two hours before that now is causing some intestinal duress and what do you do? you're there by yourself and you better have the kidneys of a dalmation to make it through your shift. i say from practical experience, from real-life experience if you don't have two people in the cab of the locomotive watching not only for the route ahead and taking care of your train but watching out for each other then you have a problem. i advocated this in the 2008 derailment in chatsworth, i've advocated this in 2013. all these things would have been avoided, people would be alive today had they just put another person in the cab of the locomotive. >> all right, thank you so much for being with us.

>> david thank you very much. >> we greatly appreciate it david. >> it's amazing. one person one person can be responsible for an entire train full of people in this day and age. he brings up a basic point. >> he does. we've talked about technology, infrastructure investment. but congressman let's talk about the people who lost their lives because of a mistake that was made. and talk about being inside there again. i mean, have you -- i know you've had to think about it so much over the past 24 hours. >> it's still pretty raw to me, to be honest with you, joe. i took yesterday afternoon to be with my wife and i was coaching many i son's hockey game, trying to get back into the swing of thing s things but i know i'm one of the lucky ones. you can't help but think about the seven guys who aren't going to see their families again. over 200 are injured. dozens and dozens who are severely injured. >> it's incredible the loss. we're learning more about these

victims. among them derek griffith, the dean of students at medgar evers college in brooklyn. derek was a ten-year veteran in the education field and was described in a school press release as a pillar of the community. the other victims include a u.s. naval midshipman a wells fargo executive, the ceo of a small tech company and a software architect. here's nbc's stephanie gosk with more. >> reporter: justin zemser was a second year midshipman at the naval academy. he was supposed to be home by 10:30. >> they said there was a derailment. all night we called hospitals but nothing. >> reporter: zemser's got the awful news her son died. >> he was wonderful. he was absolutely wonderful. everybody looked up to my son. and there's no other words i can say. >> reporter: jim gaines worked for the associated press. the 48-year-old father of two was killed on his way home after meetings in d.c.

>> he would do things to try to make your day better. >> abid gilani who worked at wells fargo and 39-year-old rachel jacobs, a young ceo with a toddler at home, didn't survive the crash, either. four of the seven passengers who died on train 188. others have found their loved ones here at temple university hospital where dr. herb curbing and his team performed surgeries and set bones all night long. >> we're fortunate there weren't more deaths. what little i've seen suggested things could have been a lot worse. >> reporter: jeff cutler agrees. he was in the second car and felt it launch into the air. >> i felt like we were flying. >> reporter: you had time to feel that sensation? >> i recall that sensation. and it eventually tipped over with a thud. >> reporter: left with just bruises, he knows he's one of the lucky ones. >> and another passenger named bob gildersleeve is still missing. his family has been passing out flyers asking anyone who knows his whereabouts to contact them

or the philadelphia police. still ahead, we'll speak to the lead investigator for the ntsb as the search for answers surrounding the amtrak train crash continues. also ahead amazon may soon have a big challenger to its prime delivery service. the retail giant that's getting ready to take on amazon. plus we have former new york governor george pataki. >> oh, boy. >> he's standing by. i'm going to see if he's going to be the 436th candidate to get into the republican primary race for president. we'll get his take on the debate over america's aging infrastructure also and how it might be improved if he's president of the united states. he's gotten a exclusive announcement in just a few minutes. first, here's bill karins, he's got the samerun-of-the-mill forecast. >> it's been nice and quiet during the week and during the weekend we have the severe

weather. the exception has been texas. they had one episode of one storm after another and the water is just adding up. it doesn't even take much because the ground is so saturated. we have more flooding concerns for texas in the days ahead. here's the setup. a storm coming into california -- which is good, that i need the rain and snow -- is going to move into the day today and tonight and that will move through. that's the beneficial part of the storm system. the bad part of this is as we go throughout the weekend, this storm treks into the middle of the country. that's when we'll see severe weather setting up. we have warm air ahead thunderstorms will be plentiful friday and saturday and even into sunday. friday's concern area, all the way from north texas into nebraska. i don't think we're going to get a lot of tornados on friday large hail, damaging winds but thunderstorms are more elevated so it's hard for them to produce tornados. by the time we get to saturday, that's when the storm kicks out into the plains. enhanced risk goes for a lot of people here. slight risk includes 27 million people including the big cities, oklahoma city near tulsa, wichita and omaha nebraska all the way to up sioux falls.

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>> clearly it was reckless in terms of the driving by the engineer. there's no way in the world that he should have been going that fast into the curve. you almost have to be an idiot to -- even if you're trying to make up time to be doing 106 on a curve as opposed to maybe on a

straight away. that is not acceptable under any set of circumstances. >> that was philadelphia mayor michael nutter yesterday reacting to news that amtrak train 188 was traveling more than 100 miles an hour when it derailed. >> can you believe that? >> no more than twice the speed limit. joining us from philadelphia, board member of the ntsb robert sumwalt. robert any closer -- what are the options here as to why the train was going so fast? >> well, that's why we're here. i want to point out that everything is on the table. we certainly want to understand why this train was doing more than twice the authorized speed. so we'll be looking at the human, we'll be looking at the machine and that's what we're looking at at this point. >> a month or so ago when we had the tragic plain crash, the

suicide in france, a lot of people were asking why they didn't have rules requiring two pilots in the cockpit. we just had a guest on saying that a safe low-tech way to make these type of accidents -- prevent these would be to have two people up front. why don't we do that? why don't we require that? would that make your job easier? >> well joe, good morning. we think there is an option that's even better than having a second person in the locomotive cab and that's a system called positive train control. that is a system that's designed to protect against human error. and if the error occurs, the positive train control will kick in and control the speed of the train. >> well, we've been talking about that and that's obviously on the table, apparently it's on the most-wanted list and it was installed in the metro-north trains after of course, people died. so until we're up to speed

technologically, doesn't it make sense to have two people up front. >> well we've seen accident there is where there are two people in an airplane or locomotive cab so yes, we want redundancy. another person may be a measure of redundancy but we think that positive train control is a proven technology, it's required to be installed by the end of this year. >> robert, it's willie geist. this is not a new technology is it? the. >> the concept is not new but positive train control is new and it's just coming into maturation. >> what do you look for when you get on the ground first for this type of accident? do you first want to talk to the conductor? is that the first thing you want to do? >> certainly talking to the

engineer, the operator of the train. that's a high priority for us. we hope the do that soon. but also we want to go and secure things like the event recorders which we've done. we want to diagram and document the wreckage. we want to start collecting records, training records employment records, inspection records for the track. those are the types of things we want to do as soon as we get here. >> robert sumwalt, thank you so much. we're back with much more "morning joe" right after this. he fires up the free wifi with a network that's now up to 5 times faster than before! so he can rapidly prepare his presentation. and when he perfects his pitch, do you know what chris can do? and that is my recommendation. let's see if he's ready. he can swim with the sharks! he's ready. la quinta inns & suites take care of you, so you can take care of business. book your next stay at lq.com! la quinta!

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unbelievable, ridiculous and that's why george pataki needs to be our next president of the united states. if we could only talk to him. >> your mic is on. >> he's afraid to talk. >> we should get him in here. >> i think he'd be afraid to. i don't think he would have the guts to do it. >> i disagree but we should get him here and ask him. >> wait a second, did i see out of the corner of my eye george pataki. how are you, governor? >> i'm great, how are you? >> are you running for president? >> well, i'm going to make an announcement, may 28 two weeks. >> are you worried about the crowded field? 192, 19, 20 people. >> you can't worry about what you can't control. you can control your ideas, your vision and how hard you work. >> you're one of these guys that's like bill clinton was in 1991 when he jumped into the

race, his race, everybody thought he was out of his mind, he ended up winning. when you decided to take on mario cuomo everybody thought you were crazy. >> no one thought i had a chance. i was looking back. in 75 years there have been two people elected governor as a republican in new york state nelson rockefeller and me. so the odds don't deter me. >> are you too moderate? >> i am the only person who has been elected running on the conservative party line as a conservative. you look at my record in reducing $143 billion in taxes, over a million fewer people on welfare, taking the most dangerous state in america and making it the fourth-safest state. i have no doubt when i lay my ideas out there and go through my background and what i've been able to do people will say this is a guy who could lead our country well. >> there are a lot of governors i like and respect but i wonder whether they know the difference between sunnis and shi'a, if they understand what's going on right now in syria, you are

turkey, how everything intertwines. how are you on foreign policy? >> i don't need an expert to give me a crash course. when you're the governor of new york, first of all i would have heads of state from all over the world coming in every year for the u.n. i'd always use that opportunity to sit down and talk with them, whether it was king abdullah or maliki or others and i've continue to do that. i feel very confident about policy. >> so tell us what would separate you from someone like jeb bush. >> i think first of all the ability to appeal beyond just a republican electorate. to win in a state like new york, we had john mccain mitt romney, they would have been good presidents but they couldn't win. you have to appeal to the republican vote but you have to appeal to moderates and conservative democrats and i've shown i can do that. second of all governing in a deep blue state going down to washington everybody is going to say what they're going to do but co but congress isn't a bowl of cherries and you have to work with people across party lines

in. my legislature in new york i had 143 democrats, 47 republicans and i changed this state more than any other state in america so i know i can work to get things done regardless of the political difficulties you're going to face. >> so you're campaigning in dallas texas, you say you can separate yourself from the other republican candidates and you're asked about immigration. what's your deal on immigration? >> i think it's simple. first of all we have to control the border. i was asked this in dallas two nights ago. first we have to control the border and do whatever we can to do that. but the second part of this because we're not going to send 11 million people or however many back in railroad cars or buses or trains. we're going to have to find a way to provide legalized status here. i think we should do that. those who have obeyed the law, not been dependent on government, paid their taxes should have a pathway to legalized status. but they've broken the law and this country depends on the rule of law and we can't just simply say that's okay when millions of

people -- >> so is your position my position? they come in and perhaps if they deserve it a legalized status to work is fine but not a pathway to citizenship unless they get in the same line that everybody else is in? >> that's right. legalized status but not automatically legalized status. you've broken the law. 200 hours of community service. do what we do in communities across america. we won't put you in jail or fine you a lot of money. 200 hours of community service working in a hospital, working in a school. then a pathway to citizenship at the back of the line unless you do things like serve honorably in the u.s. military. >> so you said on one hot button issue immigration. we're obviously not going to deport 11 is -- >> it's a great soundbite but it won't happen. same thing that won't happen is you won't get 200 million guns off the street. a lot of liberals say no guns, no guns, no guns.

you do understand the mind-set in many cases gun control. i'm saying this as a guy that supports background checks but in many ropts if you're an advocate for gun control like a lot of people in new york state chances are good you're only making sure criminals have them. >> i totally agree. >> was that your position as governor? >> it was always my position that people are entitled to have guns. i was opposed to the safe act which reduced the size of the clips to 10 and closed the background check loophole at gun shows. we did that at the state level. at the federal level i think gun laws are fine. we have to enforce them. we just saw the tragic murder another one of a cop in new york city with an illegal gun. the gun was illegal, bringing it across state lines is illegal. we need a federal government that enforces the existing laws and doesn't add new laws. >> i understand only 3% of all crimes with guns are committed by people who bought the guns. i always wonder why we don't

work harder on -- everybody's "gun control gun control, gun control." background checks when you buy the guns and sectly for the 97% that commit crimes with the guns, stop the trafficking. fight to stop the illegal trafficking. >> joe when i was governor i fought very hard and we passed the law raising the penalties for the illegal tracking of guns. it was very hard to get it through the liberals. i finally did. now we have just the other day the fbi director, jim comfy andb combey said we're going to have attacks in america. in garland, texas if it hadn't been for that one cop would have had another fort hood massacre unless someone in that building had a gun and was prepared to use it. i think our laws are fine. enforce them. >> and they also got a three hour warning the two guys were going to show up.

>> we won't always have that. >> we've had another rail accident. this one lethal six people dead a few miles south of here. everybody talks about needing to rebuild the infrastructure, you go to laguardia you can see in the front of your face bridges crumbling crumbling. without raising taxes, which is anathema to most republicans -- >> and to me. >> -- how do you go about a marshall plan for america to rebuild america? >> i'll give you two points. first of all, in the interest of full disclosure, i'm on the northeast mag lev advisory board. this is a private group that is working to change the rail corridor from washington to boston using magnetic levitation trains. i've ridden the train in japan. 318 miles an hour. >> i was going to ask how fast that goes. >> 318. they've had thousands of riders never had an accident, let alone a fatality. >> why can't we do that here? >> we can. and the japanese government and japanese companies are prepared

to bring the technology and help to finance phase one of that track. >> what does that say about us? >> it says that the japanese company -- >> i don't care, that's fine. it's their technology but let's do it here instead of putting billions and billions into a failed infrastructure. let's look to the 21st century. like the train -- how many billions are we spending in california, federal dollars on a train that's probably going to have no riders and go 180 miles an hour when you could transform the northeast corridor with probably not much more money than that and go 318 miles an hour. >> i've got to keep stressing this because a lot of times people say that's just wasting money. no it's investing in our economy. >> if it's infrastructure. >> it's saving work hours and it's making the country more money. >> and more efficient. it was lincoln who did the transcontinental railroad. it was eisenhower who did the interstate highway system and now we need a 21st century

infrastructure. private/public partnership. i don't care if the technology comes from japan. don't just throw $10 billion more into band-aiding an amtrak system. leapfrog into the 21st century. that's america. >> let me ask you the question that tripped up jeb bush a couple days ago. knowing what you know now would you support america going into iraq in 2003? >> no i would clearly not. it was a mistake, the intelligence was wrong and the consequences have been terrible. in defense of president bush, though, after the surge we created a stable iraq and it was the decision by the clinton and obamas to withdraw every single american troop. >> that was going to be my next question. >> i don't think we should have gone in but once we did and we won we should not have created the void when clinton and obama pulled out every troop. >> governor pataki, looking forward to seeing your announcement. after the announcement come back

here. >> i'll be back. looking forward to it. >> looking forward to seeing you. still ahead it's mitt romney like you've never seen him before. now he's prepping for his fight against evander holyfield. you heard me right. that's straight ahead. plus jeremy piven goes crazy on mika. i don't get that. you had some blocks and you had major thoroughfares and corridors that were just totally pitch black. those things had to change. we wanted to restore our lighting system in the city. you can have the greatest dreams in the world, but unless you can finance those dreams, it doesn't happen. at the time that the bankruptcy filing was done, the public lighting authority had a hard time of finding a bank. citi did not run away from the table like some other bankers did. citi had the strength to help us go to the credit markets and raise the money. it's a brighter day in detroit. people can see better when they're out doing their tasks, young people are moving back in town the kids are feeling safer while they walk to school.

and folks are making investments and the community is moving forward. 40% of the lights were out, but they're not out for long.they're coming back. there's some facts about seaworld we'd like you to know. we don't collect killer whales from the wild. and haven't for 35 years. with the hightest standard of animal care in the world, our whales are healthy. they're thriving. i wouldn't work here if they weren't. and government research shows they live just as long as whales in the wild. caring for these whales, we have a great responsibility to get that right. and we take it very seriously. because we love them. and we know you love them too.

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can't hide, come get your whooping. >> that was former massachusetts governor romney. tomorrow he's set to square off against boxing great evander holyfield in a charity bout. how is that going to go? time now for business before the bell. we have sara eisen here. sara what's the news on wall street this morning? >> we're watching the state of the american consumer and worried about it. i have to say joe, we've been getting earnings from retailers. kohl's this morning disappointing. macy's yesterday also disappointing. then we got the government report on retail sales in the last 24 hours, absolutely flat. so that spring rebound everyone was looking for when the weather cleared up not exactly happening for the american consumer. not to mention those savings the consumers were supposed to get from gas prices. looks like they're saving that money. >> sara, what's wrong? what's happening here. you were right we are hoping maybe the first quarter was low because of the bad weather. this is continuing to april and

if consumers aren't spending money, that's a big problem isn't it? >> it's a big problem because consumer spending is 70% of the u.s. economy so you need to see consumers pick up. there are some temporary problems these retailers are citing like the port congestion on the west coast, those port strikes. not allowing all of the inventory to get across the country. also not as many tourists spending in the united states because of the strong dollar. speaking of retail i thought you would enjoy this, walmart will start beta testing an amazon prime like service for cheaper than prime. walmart is going all in on e-commerce. it would be $50 a year. it's invitation only but we'll see whether walmart can take on amazon with the idea of cheaper prices. >> that's fascinating. we'll see how that ends up. sara thank you so much for being with us, we appreciate it. coming up next ari gold

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become the king of hollywood? well, i've written a book to help you. the gold standard, rules to rule by. 18 rules that you will need. why only 18 rules? that's all i had time for. i had 118 rules and i had to kind of pare them down for you. if you don't have all the power you have no power. no power, that's you. all the power, that's me. >> oh here we go. that was ceo of miller gold talent agency ari gold on his new book "the gold standard rules to rule by" the hollywood power agent joins us now. >> hello good to see you. >> nice to have you on the show. >> good to be here. >> you were on the "today" show today? >> absolutely. >> you took up all the -- i had my book after yours, you took all the time. >> it's a free country. you're a self-empowered woman. you can speak for yourself and take up all the oxygen. >> you said this book will rule your life and you will learn to rule the world with this book. >> well i've been doing a nice

job for a long time for many decades and as a giver i wanted to let -- >> you're a giver? >> yeah. i want to let the world know how to be in a power position and be the best version of yourself. >> how do you do that? >> it starts with being overprepared. people are taking victory laps for not contributing anything. there are a lot of instagram stars and people that want to be celebrities when the reality is when i ran the miller gold agency no one could be an agent unless you have a degree. you have to have a college degree. so you have to be focused and overprepared because everyone will get their shot. but will you be ready? so i'm giving you gold nuggets here. >> let me ask you a question. . i've followed your career extensively. it's a huge power trip down sunset boulevard swallowing up all of los angeles. do you believe in the phrase -- which i think symbolizes your career -- too much is never enough? >> absolutely.

whoever invented less is more has a beanie on and is lining up in coachella doing a mediocre job. >> that's a sad sight. >> nobody wins with that. if you're number two, you're losing. i truly believe you don't have any power until you've got all the power. that's where i am right now. i just bought img. you both know that. basically what's going to happen is everyone is saying i overpaid for it but i bought all the horses so i have all these athletes at my disposal so i can buy these brands that no one knows about. i have the brands, now i have the horses to run the brands and i don't have to pay the horses anything, then everybody wins. one of the things i love to do is take credit for other people's work, you know what i'm saying? >> you're a man. >> i am a man. >> you are a man. that's what men do. >> you're underpaid. >> that's right.

>> you're underpaid and you're overworked? >> that's right. look. this is it right here. this is written by a man and everything you learn in it is how to be successful like a man. i would suggest women read this book. >> absolutely. i'll give you the play book and you still can't beat me at my game. >> i'll beat you. go ahead, barnicle. >> how much of the truth do you feel compelled -- if you feel compelled at all -- when you're negotiating with someone or for someone. >> that's an excellent question and the first one we've had in this entire -- i'll give you a shot. apparently being viciously mediocre has landed you in that seat. >> you're calling me viciously mediocre? >> indeed. indeed. >> because i'm looking at someone who might have issues on the inside. >> everything that i do is to put food on the table for mrs. ari. she doesn't have a first name. her name is mrs. ari because she knows her place. >> you're not self-centered. >> no, go ahead. >> how much of the truth do you feel compelled to tell if any at all? >> you know there are some that say tell the truth and run.

here's the reality. all actors are [ bleep ]. that's a reality. that piven guy off doing mr. sell selfridge, i'd rather read jane austen in a basement myself. >> you represented him. >> he was a disaster. festival of bad decisions. >> aren't all men [ bleep ] really? >> the reality is is that women have a higher threshold for pain. that is the truth. >> and that's why they have this exterior that they push so desperately like yours where you just have to make up for such a [ bleep ] that you are? >> the reality is -- listen, i love your balls. i love your energy. i love everywhere you're going. >> yours are deflated? >> no, no. you're kind of like the social tom brady right now. i love it. i love it. you will unfortunately never have what i have. and that's a reality. and i can look you in the eyes

and speak for my soul and tell you that. at the same time, i can give you 18 rules that will help you to elevate your game. >> got it. >> this will be -- listen to me. pause for a second and let me finish my thought. this will be number one on the "new york times" best-seller list. >> right. >> why? because i have done it. i have actualized power. i am living the dream. people see me what do i represent to them? success? okay? it's not a theory, it's an actuality. here is the play book. boom. >> i will never have what you have and i'm going to be good with that. >> this four minutes seems like most of my adult life. >> really? well the book is "ari gold, rules to live by." >> please wrap it up. wrap it up. >> wrap it the ef-up. >> wrap up the [ bleep ] up. >> you can go now. [ laughter ]

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enhance the experience. the touch of your hands is stimulating her senses. nurturing her mind. and helping her development. so why just clean your baby when you can give her... so much more™? johnson's®. so much more™. >> welcome back. time to talk about what we learned today. what did you learn? >> i just ran from across the street to do the other -- >> squawk box? >> yes! >> so you left the real "morning joe" to talk to the counterfeit morning joe? >> he says he's the real "morning joe." >> he's been obsessed for a long time. >> it's lovely. >> you've got a massive event. >> tomorrow, washington oh my gosh, here we go. the second know your value event. we've sold out so we're trying to make the room bigger and look at this. what a great lineup.

of course our competition. >> great lineup. mike, what did you learn snowed. >> so much, unfortunately sorting through the train situation, a lot to learn. i'm sick of hearing politicians talk about infrastructure and do nothing about infrastructure spending. sick of it. >> well, listen, tomorrow we have the cemetery of homeland security jeh johnson will be on. obviously a lot of warnings over the past weekend about possible isis threats to the united states, it will be good to talk to him and figure out what's going on and we will be in washington because mika has her conference tomorrow. if it's way too early, it's "morning joe." stick around, "the rundown" is coming up now. good morning, i'm jose diaz-balart. first on "the rundown," developing news in the wake of the deadly train derailment in philadelphia. any minute we're expecting to hear from officials at temple university hospital