fied financial planner professional who's thoroughly vetted at letsmakeaplan.org. cfp -- work with the highest standard. was the amtrak train hit by a projectile before it derailed? good morning. thanks for getting up with us this saturday morning. two big stories dominating the headlines right now. one, the jury sentencing dzhokhar tsarnaev to death for the boston marathon bombingism. the other big headline this morning. the ntsb revealing that the amtrak train may have been struck by an object before it derailed this week outside of philadelphia. we will have the details on that in just a second. ahead in the show today mitt romney stepping into the

boxing rink against evander holyfield. kasie hunt was there. you'll won't want to miss that. the clintons earned more than $30 million in just the last 16 months. $25 million in speaking fees. we will be look kboog the question of how exactly two or it three dozen or how many republican candidates could fit on a debate stage. is that even possible? we begin this morning with the investigation into what caused the amtrak train to derail outside of philadelphia on tuesday night. now, last night, for the first time investigators say something suspicious may have with hit the windshield just before that accident. a projectile hit another train on the same stretch of rail track just moments before the amtrak crash. according to ntsb spokesman an

assistant conductor on the amtrak train believes she heard the engineers oftt trains discussing the projectile in a radio transmission but she couldn't be sure of that recollection. al the ntsb says it is looking at video footage from both trains for any sign of a projectile and they'll bringing thin five. they have now interviewed the engineer of the train. he told him he was not tired before the crash. he wasn't sick wasn't on his cell phone. he told them he can't remember anything about the crash itself. >> he recalls ringing the train bell as he went through the north philadelphia station. that's not a normal station stop for him. but he's required by regulations to sound his bell. i may have said horn. he's required to sound his bell as he goes through past a

station stop. he did that. he recalled doing that. but he has no recollection of anything past that. >> msnbc adam reese joins us from the 30th street train station in philadelphia. surprise revelations at that press conference. i don't think people expected this would what we would be talking about, the possibility of a projectile. >> not at all. a new twist in the investigation. investigators say he's been cooperative. as you mentioned before the last thing he remembers ringing his bell as he passed through the station. he remembers nothing about the accident. this was a regular run from him from new york to d.c. five days a week. an assistant conductor says over her radio she heard a nearby

engineer on a metro train say he was hit by some type of projectile through his window. we also learned an acela train also suffered from something similar, a projectile through their window. the ntsb says we can't draw any conclusions over this. they will reasomeble the train and inspect it. amtrak says they should have service back on tuesday. >> thanks to adam reese in philadelphia for that. for more on this investigation i'm joined by jim hall, former chairman of the ntsb. you heard it from adam right there, not only you have that commuter train not only do you have the recollection from somebody on the amtrak train of a projectile and an acela train. maybe three trains. what do you make of these reports? >> that's an important piece of information that factual piece of information that will be

included and folded into the investigation. however, that certainly does not negate the facts, steve, that a positive train control system would have prevented -- slowed this train down, regardless of any type of human error or that could have resulted in the acceleration of the train going into the serve. >> when you start seeing the talk and the reports of the projectiles, the possibility of sabotage, of something intentional here from somebody not on the train is at least raised. what do you think of that? >> well during my tenure at the ntsb in the 1990's as chairman there were two incidents involving sabotage that were investigated and prosecuted as a result by the federal bureau of

investigation. so this, again is an important piece of information, but we have to wait and see how it fits into the overall investigation of this tragedy. >> we talk about the fbi being called in here, does that tell us anything? does that say anything to the fact that the fbi is called in? does certain criteria have to be met for that? >> the fbi is always monitoring the ntsb investigations. it is very common for the board to ask for support from the fbi if there are any allegations of possible criminal activity. and that's what is happening in this situation. and they do have a forensic capability that will assist in looking at this windshield of the accident train to see -- accident engine to see if it was possibly caused by a projectile

rather than damage from the accident sequence. >> yeah, we're being told the fbi will be looking at a fracture pattern in the left side of the train's window opposite, apparently where the engineer was standing when this accident took place. jim hall former chairman of the ntsb. thanks for taking a few minutes. turning to the other big headline this morning to boston and the jury that has sentenced dzhokhar tsarnaev to death for the marathon bombing there in 2013. now, four people were killed in that attack. it's aftermath, and over 200 were injured. the jury deciding unanimously death is the appropriate punishment. rejecting the defense's contention he was under ininfluence of his older brother. only two of the 12 brothers believe he had shown any remorse. several jurors openly crying. the end of 61 days of testimony. survivors of the victims and

families reacting. the parents of martin richard were opposed to the death silence. they sat in silence. this woman was permanently injured. she viewed the sentence as closure. >> we can start taking steps to get our lives back and not have to concentrate on what's left to be done here. >> now, he becomes the first person in this country to be sentenced to death for terrorism since timothy mcveigh. >> we sent a message a strong message, that we're not going to tolerate terrorism. i think whether you agree with the death penalty or don't i think the message sends they're not going to blow up our marathon our city. >> and to discuss the decision and the aftermath i'm joined by a political strategist, a senior

fellow at the heartland institute, and a white house reporter with buzzfeed. let's talk about this decision in boston. this was interesting. to me, this really gets to the heart of what you think of the death penalty. when you talk about the death penalty so many times it's actually there might be evidence here this person didn't do it t. this was not a case where there was any doubt about guilt. everybody knew this guy was guilty. and the severity of the crime doesn't get much worse than an act of terrorism. it came down to when there is no doubt, this country, the state should be putting somebody to death? the jury in boston comes back and said yes. >> the jury had a difficult task. i think it weighed on them emotionally. it was something they had a lot of different conflicted views about. ultimately they reached this conclusion. i saent they i disagree with

that. i think it is something that is clear, that is -- if you're going to have the death penalty. i think it should be for cases like this when there is no question about the guilt. it's a question of what the influence is. the question is how this plays out in the future and the kind of appeals process we see people go through in cases like this can be lengthily. experts in this case believe there may be few measures that allow for those kind of appeals. >> if you were on that jury how you would have thought about this case? >> it is tough. in part because i don't believe in the death penalty. i think in a situation like this where he took so many lives so quickly and injured so many people, he should rot in jail. i think that that is the ultimate form of punishment. at the same time i can understand the families, the loved ones all those people who were scared for days after that bombing at something that's so significant to the boston community and the nation

overall, i can certainly understand why people would support in this case like you said, speaking of reasonable doubt, there is absolutely no reasonable or unreasonable doubt. >> the associated press reported their reporter called up his father. he said he growned and hung up the phone afterwards. >> you know we used to have a debate about death penalty ipn this country. eric holder was personally opposed to the death penalty but the obama administration made no effort to talk about it on the federal level. we've had states in the -- some northern states have gotten away from it and backed away from it death penalty. a lot of prodeath penalty states have been working hard to keep it going under a lot of court pressure and challenges. you're talking about this national case, everybody knows about it. everybody has an opinion on it. this is not a political debate we actually have anymore on a

national level. >> it feels to me like the debate -- it swings between two places. there's cases like this where the outrage is so universal. this is why we need to death penalty. i can remember one in connecticut a few years ago, it was a mother and her two daughters were held hostage in their own house, torched for a day, the house burned down, they died inside. the father was at work. he survived that. that was in connecticut you watched public opinion jump like 30 points in favor of the death penalty. on the flip side you hear about somebody getting off death row who doesn't belong there. >> it's interesting you see at the state level a lot of situations while there is a death penalty under the law, the process ends up in people staying in jail decades. in 2012 t there was a blip up about the death penalty in california. the reason it was controversial

there -- they all a death pen penalty, it wasn't be used. it was these people who were getting extended time in jail. i think it's better to not have one at all and have that situation where you have a death penalty but you're not ever using it. it's perpetrating a situation where it isn't the law of the land, you're pretending it s. i think that's the sort of situation that leads to confused debates on this issue as opposed to having clarity. >> i think the other thing we have to start paying more attention to is -- it was a debate longer ago, that is the difference between correcting behavior, rehabilitation type of punishment versus like hard core punishment. and i just wonder, you know, what that spectrum looks like for us in this country. when can someone be reformed. when do you give up on them, and what does that mean? does that mean death? permanent punishment? what does that look like? i think that's something we need to wrestle with and come to a

solution. >> ji grew up to massachusetts, i was talking to people up there, i heard it over and over from people. i don't like the death penalty. i'm not comfortable with with it. in this case i'm fine with it. i'm not going to be upset with the verdict. a matter of correction, too, i think i was talking about that case in connecticut. i'm being told the father of the family that was tortured and killed was not at work at the time of that. had to clear that up. ahead, his debates with president obama have nothing on what mitt romney was doing last night. but, first, a paycheck details that could make it difficult for hillary clinton to portray herself as the champion of working americans. thaft that is next. stay with us. so was the 100% electric e-golf. and the 45 highway mpg tdi clean diesel. and last but not least the high performance gti. looks like we're gonna need a bigger podium.

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i do disclose who gave them

to me so people can make up their own minds. >> she's running for president, will you continue to give speech speeches speeches? >> oh, yeah i got to pay their bills. they apparently have money to pay those bills. news late yesterday former president bill clinton and hillary clinton reported they earned more than $30 million since january of last year. more than $25 million of that coming from speaking fees. nbc news white house correspondent kristin wellker has gone through all the documents. i did a double take when i saw this $30 million is big this is just in about a year and a half. >> that's right. i think a lot of people did a double take. hillary clinton releasing her financial disclosure forms on friday. as you point out they show that she and former president bill clinton raked inthrosis to $25 million for delivering about 100 paid speeches. a lot of them to banks. al hillary clinton also earned

about $5 million in royalties from her book. the disclosures put her in the top 1%. that could complicate her message. she has argued she's a champion of the working and middle class. the clintons have faced criticism in the past for being out of touch. you'll remember it was just last year that clinton said that she and her family were dead broke when they left the white house. that's, of course, a claim that didn't really ring true for a lot of americans. it's worth noting the flip side to this is the clintons reportedly made an effective tax rate of 30%. they argue that wealthier americans should may more in taxes. you can imagine the republicans wasted no time lashing out. the chairman of the republican national committee said the clintons claim that staggering amounts of income from paid speaking fees that raise ethical questions is simply to pay our

bills shows how out of touch they have become. the clintons deny any ethical breaches. hillary clinton released the information in keep ing with the rules of the federal election commission. i can tell you looking ahead, she'll be back on the road next week. she'll make her second trip to iowa in mason city and cedar falls. >> we know she'll have the gas money if she drives that van out there again. thanks to you. appreciate your time. let's talk about this with the panel. look, i think -- it seems like do we instinctively think of politicians living in this different world? does this put them in a different bubble? >> i think she's got a great new campaign slogan, look what i did for myself in 16 months.

i know economic growth. >> we need to hire you for that. that was good. >> does he charge to give the state of the union? >> mitt romney should have offered stock tips. >> when hillary clinton speaks about this in her speeches and how proud they are to have done what she's done and find their way to this kind of wealth. their problem is when they get asked questions about it. she said the dead broke thing. one of the dumbest things that could have been said about this. he said -- >> got to pay our bills. >> which is probably the second dumbest thing you could say. everybody who runs for president is generally of a higher -- by the time -- >> they've not worried about money. >> they got a lot of money. but the trick is you can't look like you're defensive about it. this is a positive in your life

if you think it is, which clinton has said she thinks it s. she needs to figure a way to discuss it without looking like how dare you ask me about this unbelievable amount of money. >> you got to feed your family -- but you have a clinton machine that is different than the one they used to rise up in politics. when they were starting out in the political game at the national level they had the populist appeal of coming from arkansas and being closely connected to working class americans and the middle class. having those concerns at the front and center. the problem for hillary going forward is does she work for that group of people anymore? does she represent them? does she represent the people that are paying her for speeches speeches? >> you can go and find these. you can see which group this is that paid 250,000 $300,000.

when bill clinton ran for president in 1992 his salary as the governor of arkansas was $35,000 a year. and now he makes ten times that much to talk for an hour. >> i think that part of this is we really do have to remember where these people came from. hillary clinton is not mitt romney. she's just not. this is a woman as soon as she finished law school worked for the children's defense fund. this is someone who fought for healthcare before it was a popular notion or arguably not so popular with jeb bush's app idea. we're talking about folks who are not that far off from representing middle class values and middle class people and folks who are striving to get into the middle class. i do agree with you they have epically failed in talking about their financial situation. i hope that as time goes on they're very clear about how to speak about this. >> the reason they failed is because they've spent so much time in the bubble where this is

okay. that's standard practice. where you're getting paid that much to just go and speak for less than 30 minutes. that sort of cycle -- >> you turning down a speaking engagement fee? >> of course not. >> exactly. that's my point -- >> i'm also not running for president. >> here's the thing -- >> that's all they get? >> here's the thing if i was bill clinton common bill clinton who can find a way to relate to anyone, instead of saying that we need this money to pay our bills he should have said you going to turn down that fee? >> i had a speaking fee to rutgers,ing they paid my fares. >> you should have negotiated that. >> i think the rules at msnbc bar me from accepting it. still ahead. 13 questions that hillary has answered since announcing her run. first, george stephanopoulos

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this is humira at work all right. breaking news this hour. that u.s. special forces have carried out a raid inside of syria flying into eastern syria to kill a top isis commander. that word is coming from the u.s. defense department. we are working to get more information on the story to find out what happened there. we will bring you all the additional details on that raid as they become available. again, that word breaking just this hour from the u.s. defense department over a raid carried out inside of syria. while we work on gathering more information, let's catch up on the headlines making news this morning. beginning with the many articles about the fallout since george stephanopoulos apologized for not disclosing donations to the

clinton foundation. >> over the last several years i've been substantial donations to dozens of charity including the clinton global foundation. they were a matter of public record but i should have made additional disclosures. i believe directing personal foundations to donations was a mistake. even though i helped,ing i should have gone the extra mile of avoiding the appearance of a conflict. i apologize to all of you for failing to do that. >> abc news says it is standing by stephanopoulos. they said he made an honest mistake and he has removed himself from being the moderator of a future republican primary debate. stephanopoulos has given his critics plenty of ammunition. they ask if he can still be credible in covering the clintons at all, and that means covering the 2016 campaign. there is a longer term story

here. republicans have been suspicious of him since he went to work for abc. >> not just republicans. >> that is a jump that happens a lot -- that wall between politics and the media. tim russert was mario cuomo's guy. >> if you're one of somebody who is on a panel with different views and you've been in politics. i've worked in politics, a lot of other people have. there's not that expectation you'll be a neutral arbtsar. i think he had carved out a place as someone who is not representing a partisan viewpoint. that brings up a lot of concerns. >> it does. if this came out three years ago or four years ago not in the current climate where we spent a month talking about the clinton foundation, does this -- did this look different when he did it? >> it looks completely different. i would say now especially the optics are terrible. at the same time, i would say, again, bringing back this human

factor into this. if you have an old boss who starts a foundation, you are going to support that foundation. should he have disclosed it? absolutely. i'm not suggesting he shouldn't have made the donations. it's ridiculous people divorce themselves whether it's a journalist. >> he's a nice guy you can't start that interview with peter schweizer by saying, hey, just so you know -- >> i agree with you on that point. i said he should have. >> now he is like a candidate. he's now said he made public apology. we'll see what the american people have to say. he's like the candidates he's covering. some of the republican push back on the idea of a biassed campaign debate moderator is rich after they rebuilt their debate system to say the only people who can host debates are hosts of right wing radio talk shows. they have made an effort to have

biassed primary debate moderators. >> the more specific complaint that i've heard from conservatives and republicans about stephanopoulos was in 2012 when he asked questions about the whole issue of contraception. he pressed the issue in a debate. a lot of republicans felt this was a manufactured issue that he put on to the national radar that hit the candidate. they've been suspicious of him. >> could it be something he believes in. sometimes you work for people who you actually agree with. so, again, this, to me is bizarre, he is a democratic leaning journalist who came out of the white house. that is not -- >> i guess the thing is -- >> i don't know that bill clinton's -- he came up with bill clinton through that system. i'm not sure that -- he's going to be covering this second run for the clintons run for the president. i don't know -- >> we've got to -- i think we're

getting more information he. we talked about the top of the segment word of the raid being carried out inside of syria. we said we'd get some more information on it. i think we have kristin wellker live at the white house with details on that. take it away. >> that's right. this is all just breaking right now. we just got a statement from the nsc, officials confirming that president obama ordered this raid and that u.s. personnel were able to capture a senior isis leader who's been identified with his wife. i'll read you a little bit of the statement that was just released from the nsc. it says he was captured and is in u.s. detention of iraq. it led to the freeing of a young yazidi woman who was held as a slave. no u.s. personnel were injured.

a little bit of background. according to this statement, he was a senior isil leader who among other things had a senior role in overseeing isil's gas operations. it allows them to carry out their brutal attack and oppress thousands of innocent civilians. he was involved with the group's military operations. again, the white house announcing they have captured this senior isil leader. we also call that group isis. and his wife as well. and president obama authorized this operation, again, very important to point out that no u.s. military personnel were injured in this capture and in this mission. we will continue to get details about this throughout the morning and keep you updated. steve? >> details coming in right now. a lot of information breaking on this story. we'll put it all together for you. we'll give you much more and all the latest as it comes in.

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breaking news this hour that u.s. special forces have carried out a raid inside of syria. flying into eastern syria by helicopter to kill a top isis commander. the department of defense says he was involved in isis military matters. its finances and he helped direct the oil and gas operations. special forces xancapturing his wife. we have a report from the pentagon saying he was killed when he engaged u.s. forces as they tried to capture him in eastern syria last night and that u.s. forces managed to capture his wife. they say that she was -- suspect she's a member of isis and that she quote may have been complicit it what appears to

have been the enslavement of a young yazidi woman who was captured. no u.s. forces were killed or injured. it represents a significant blow to isil and a reminder that the united states will never waiver in denying safe haven. breaking news we're learning more about this. but just a reminder, too of, you know this week there's been so much attention on the bin laden raid and some questions raised about that. a lot of attention at least paid to that this week. now we have overnight news of a raid inside of syria. >> yeah. i'm not comfortable analyzing the raid because we're just hearing about it. i would put some context on it. i was with president obama in camp david when he with was talking with the gulf leaders to fight things like isis and other

terrorist activities. it's interesting you put this in the context -- the president just the other day or the day before reaffirming the nation -- american's interest in trying to fight some of these fights and these battles. now you see, you know a -- >> you also see this in the contect in the failures we've seen with the push back in ramadi and the fighting that's gone on there. it will be interesting to look at this operation. it sounds like the security council was something that was entirely in favor of this and was going in the direction. we'll have to learn more because it's so early. >> a few more details again, it's early and a lot more to come out. we can also report to you this was carried out not surprisingly on president obama's direct order. also that the wife was captured

by special forces. she is now being held -- detained by the u.s. military in iraq. so a little bit more detail there. as you say, a lot more still to be learned about this. we'll keep a close eye on it. we will keep you updated through the the morning. word. (little girl) no! saw her first day of school. (little girl) bye bye! made a best friend forever. the back seat of my subaru is where she grew up. what? (announcer) the 2015 subaru forester (girl) what? (announcer) built to be there for your family. love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru.

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it powers through tough, dried-on messes in seconds. even 48 hour stuck-on food. so go ahead, triple that recipe! a drop of dawn and grease is gone. breaking news this hour that u.s. special forces carried out a raid inside of syria flying into eastern syria by helicopter to kill a top commander. the department of defense says that he was involved in isis military matters. its finances and helped to direct the oil and gas operations. special forces capturing his wife. we have information on him here. you can see in the monitor who he was. he was a senior isis leader. this is what we're being told. he oversaw oil and gas

operations. what we're being told this was apparently -- these are sketchy details right now. the operation was intended to capture him and his wife. he was killed when he tried to engage u.s. forces who were there to capture him. he was killed, according to the department of defense, when he resisted. his wife, though, was captured we're being told she is being held in military custody in iraq right now. so, again, lots of moving pieces here. lots of information coming in. we're trying to confirm what we hear and get you only what we know to be the facts. we'll stay on that and keep you updated as we learn more. while behind the scenes people do that we'll switch gears and talk more about what we talk about here a lot, the race for president 2016 and hillary clinton. one of the headlines this week about how hillary clinton has not been answering questions necessarily from the media so far in her presidential campaign. in just over a month of running

for president she has answered a total of 13. this is according to national public radio. a minimal amount compared to her competitors on the republican side. what questions is she avoiding? when those questions start to come, perhaps as early as this week, what are those questions going to be that she's not answering? "the washington post" put a list together of hot button issues where the base of hillary's own party, her fellow democrats want answers. they want commitments from her. we thought we would take a look at what some of those issues are on the big board. welcome here today to talk about this. we're seeing the big unanswered questions with hillary clinton, this comes from "the washington post." they broke them down into categories. we'll start with the issue of trade. so, of course the big thing with trade is the tpp,

transpacific partnership. it's complicated but there's the fast track negotiation and the tpp. hillary clinton saying nothing. >> i think the key way to look at this topic when the comes to rnt is go back a couple decades to nafta. to understand the politics in the democratic party. you have to understand it was skeptical about the trade deals in general. hillary clinton the questions about nafta when she run in 2008 that gave her a tough time trying to straddle. here she was a member of the obama administration, seems to have said things that were supportive of it. now that she's a candidate, it's clear the politics are not there. the politics of the democratic party are really kind of skeptical. >> they don't want to hear that

she's for t.it. she made supportive comments. how long can she keep this up before she has to weigh in? >> bernie sanders has made a big deal about this. martin o'malley is starting to make sounds about t. she's getting questioned by her opponents. the strategy seems to be to try to wait it out and stay out of it. there are two issues going on. on the one hand you have the fast track authority. the ability of the president to negotiate the deal and get an up or down vote from congress without amendments and filibusters and all that. that's a process part of it. the second part of it is the deal itself. we're going to get that proceduresal procedural hurdle taken a care of next week. the second part of it which is the deal itself -- >> much tougher. this takes us to wall street, so much attention you talk about the politics of wall street, you're talking about elizabeth warren and bernie sanders going

after the big banks breaking them up. how far is hillary clinton going to be able to go on that question? >> it's a key question. you mentioned there's this one block of democrats as you said bernie sanders, elizabeth warren, bill de blasio making big points. then you've got another block of the democratic party, the pro wall street wing. >> that was potentially bill clinton at some point. the question will be which side does hillary clinton end up on. she has on certain issues big progressive on these things in 2008 she was tough on carried interest and taxing certain financial actions. you have people on the left who want to see these banks broken up. more taxation. >> can she come out and say i want to break up the big banks? >> the question is i think at some point she'll have to say this is my economic philosophy. she hasn't done that yet.

over the course of 6 debates she'll have to elucidate that. >> we have the framework for the final deal. if this gets announced in june she'll have to say whether she's for it or against it. >> this is an easier one. i think it will be very hard for hillary clinton not to own and embrace it. there is risks because you have members of the party who are proisrael, more hawkest. there is that contingent there. it will be difficult for hillary clinton to walk away from this given she was secretary of state. one of her top aides, but also now as a candidate, he's part of her campaign was a big part of that. i think she's part of the iran deal. >> a lot of questions, a lot of things people are waiting to hear. no word yet that could change. thanks for taking a few minutes this morning. keeping an eye on what we are learning out of eastern syria this morning.

more details coming in right now on that raid on the special forces and the capture and the killing of an isis leader. we are going to bring you all those details when we come back. out of 42 vehicles based on 6 different criteria, why did a panel of 11 automotive experts name the volkswagen golf motor trend's 2015 car of the year? we'll give you four good reasons. the volkswagen golf. starting at $19,295, there's an award-winning golf for everyone. i think she tried to kill us. i can barely move a muscle. i don't have any muscles left.

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breaks news. we have been following this hour that u.s. special forces have carried out a raid inside of syria. flying into eastern syria to capture and kill a top isis commander named abue say eff. she was involved in military operations and was involved in overseeing its finances. special forces capturing his wife. joining us on the phone is the washington editor at large. a fuzzy picture that's slowly coming into focus here. from your understanding of this situation, do you know what kind of blow this represents to isis?

>> well it's a huge blow in the sense that this was one of isis' kingpins in its racketeering money operations, oil smuggling and human trafficking. it's a huge tribute to the work of some of what the department of treasury, department of state and the cia have been doing of targeting the people who have been fuelling -- this is the guy who ran the money pipeline in part for isis. david cohen who was the assistant secretary of state for intelligence and recently became the deputy director of the cia, this would have been one of the people in his target. this is not a traditional target. this was the money guy. this was a find, including capturing anyone including his wife. >> what we're geting for the

defense department it sounds like the intent was capture he and his wife. he engaged with u.s. forces and because of that, he was killed. given what you're telling us about how crucial he was, how integral he was to the isis, how much more value would there have been for the united states if they were able to take him alive? >> i think it would have been enormous. when you're taking on an entity like isis, of course there's the military dimension, you've got the foreign fighters who come to be recruited and the wham a mole problem of isis popping up in parts of syria, other parts of iraq. you've got the propaganda and media elements. the thing that's been important is to shut down their finances. these folks have made, you know $20 million $30 million a year in ransoms. upwards of, you know, who knows hundreds of million dollars in

elicit oil smuggling. in the sale of antiquities -- while we see them threatening to destroy cities and ancient artifacts and they've been trafficking in these artifacts. shutting down the money operation has been an extremely high priority of the obama administration and treasury and state and cia and going after the individuals. in this case, he would have had the blueprint of much of that operation. my sense is that while he was resisted and was killed, it's not only people we're talking about, it's records computers assets, it's all of that data that will give us a map of how isis operates. i'm expecting that that will impact part of what we will going after of. >> appreciate you taking a few minutes this morning. we'll reserve the right, if you will, to call on you again later

in the show. appreciate the time for now. another full hour of politics and all the latest of this breaking out of syria. stay with us. at chase, we celebrate small businesses every day through programs like mission main street grants. last years' grant recipients are achieving amazing things. carving a name for myself and creating local jobs. creating more programs for these little bookworms. bringing a taste of louisiana to the world. at chase, we're proud to support our grant recipients and small businesses like yours. so you can take the next big step. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] you wouldn't ignore signs of damage in your home. are you sure you're not ignoring them in your body? even if you're treating your crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis an occasional flare may be a sign of damaging inflammation. and if you ignore the signs, the more debilitating your symptoms could become. learn more about the role damaging inflammation may be playing in your symptoms with the expert

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your fico score powered by experian. fico scores are used in 90% of credit decisions. u.s. special forces kill a top isis leader. all right. thanks for staying with us this busy saturday morning. a lot of breaking news here. amid word from the defense department u.s. special forces have performed a raid that killed a top isis leader named abu say yef. his wife was captured in the same raid. we'll go back to the white house for details on that. we're getting new reporting from richard engel. he reports this was a

significant raid. it was initially a snatch and grab mission. the goal was to capture him alive. sayyaf was the emere and was directly involved in isil command and control. quoting from a source here he fought the capture and was killed. this is a u.s. military official telling our richard engel. they captured his wife which the official said was preplanned. the wife was identified as an iraqi. she was also allegedly directly complicit in isil activities, specifically human trafficking. the official adding we are happy to report aia yazidi slave girl was rescued. thanks for taking a few minutes what's coming into focus this was designed to be what we're

being told was a snatch and grab mission. they wanted to take this guy alive. they wanted to take a senior isis leader alive. how difficult is it to actually pull something like that off? he ended up dead here because he fought back. how difficult is it to take someone alive? >> it's difficult because these guys are all protected. they're in locations where they move from -- all the time. and so it's tough to pin them down. which indicates that he's been on -- under observation for a long long time. and if you are going to have a force going in and actually get somebody, it means it has to be a fairly substantial force, not two or three guys going into an area. you have to have a security team you have to have security and an objective rallying point. you have to have security in the area you're going. you have to have backup. we're talking about a relatively large number of people involved

in this exercise. the reason that you want to -- they wanted to get him, in particular is because of his position in generating revenue for isis. very, very important for two reasons. first of all to get him and interrogate him and his wife. second, and perhaps in many respects even more important to get the records, get the computers, get all the records and that generates an enormous amount of intelligence. the same sort of thing same sort of treasure-trove that we saw in getting bin laden. important to get the guy, much more important to get the records, very very useful down the road. >> all right. colonel jack jacobs, msnbc analyst. appreciate the time. some more details here that we're getting. this is from nbc's richard engel. saying no u.s. soldiers or civilians were hurt or injured.

this is coming from nbc's richard engel, his sources telling him that 20 isis members, all of them men in addition to abu sayyaf were killed in the course of this raid. they're saying there were no women or children who were killed during this quote, soldiers were terribly precise. they fought into the objective. only targeting isisal and safekeeping the woman and children. we're joined by the formernato commander. general, when you hear we've killed now somebody who was this intimately involved in the financial side of isis, that's the reporting we have suggests, what does that mean to you? >> who the leadership in isil is. and where they're located and what their patterns of activities are. so we've obviously, put a lot

of effort into understanding the entire top leadership structure. we have them under observation much of the time. this particular fellow we obviously, had actionable intelligent on. that means you know where he is and you have a fix on him right up to the minute that you go in. that's a very exacting standard. it means we're really very good at this. secondly, this is a big operation to go in, as jack jacobs said. you've got to be able to get in, get to the target and get out. it takes air cover, precision, operations on the ground lots of resources. we're putting a big effort into this. this particular fellow, may be a critical person in the isil command because isil runs like every other group on money. and we've been targeting the oil pipelines, the oil refineries,

trying to shut down the financial operations. here we got the kingpin. too bad we didn't get him alive. this will not only take his knowledge off the battlefield, but it will send a further wave of shock and concern through the top leadership in isil. they're already under pressure. they can't operate with the freedom they operated with last year. and this puts more pressure on. this is the critical next step in breaking up the top leadership. >> all right. also some more information now coming in through the white house. our nbc's kristin wellker is lierve live. >> we're learning more about this operation according to a statement released by nsc sportscaster spokes person, president obama approved this. alexander

last night it was carried out in eastern syria aimed at capturing a isis leader and his wife. it was supposed to be a snatch and grab. but during the raid he was killed. 12 other enemy fighters were also killed in this mission. no u.s. personnel were killed however. umm sayyaf was captured. u.s. forces freed a young yazidi woman who was being held as a slave. i was told by one official that umm sayyaf may have been involved in a human trafficking leader. he was involved in the military, but also had a senior role in overseaing isis' oil and gas operations. this is significant. i know you were honing in on this. i'm told it is significant because oil and gas is a key source of revenue. this is part of starving the

economic structure of isis. in a statement defense secretary ashe carter says it represents another significant blow to isis and a reminder that the united states will never waiver in denying safe haven to terrorists who threaten our citizens and those of our friends and allies. president obama also expressing his gratitude to the u.s. personnel who carried out the mission. important to point out that iraqi authorities also supported this. this is being seen as a victory. of course, the broader fight against isis tynecontinues. >> all right. live at the white house, thank you for that update. we'll look for more as it comes in. please keep us posts. i want to say thank you to retired general wesley clark. sorry to cut him off abruptly. a lot coming in right now. a lot we're trying to sort through to make sure we bring you all the latest as we learn it. still ahead richard engel we're going to go right to him on the other side of this break. introducing nutrient-dense purina one true instinct with real salmon and tuna

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all right. as we've been saying we are following all of the breaking news out of syria this morning of u.s. special forces carrying out a raid that resulted in the death of an isis leader. someone who is apparently intimately involved in the financing of isis and the capture of his wife. she's being held in iraq. we are working to get richard engel on the phone from istanbul. we thought we would have it for you right now. but a little difficulties in getting that up and running. while we are doing that. we will shift gears for a second and turn to fight night in salt lake city. that was last night. political debates of course often referred to as faceoffs. game of politics referred to a

battle. neither term seemed more apt than it did last night. mitt romney appearing in the ring -- this is not doctored footage -- with former heavyweight champion evander holyfield. nbc's kasie hunt was live ringside at that match. she joins us from salt lake city this morning. we are christening you our senior boxing correspondent. mitt romney 68 years old. i hear he's got a tough right hook. i don't know. he's up against evander holyfield. >> romney and i did box a little bit. he seemed like a potentially tough opponent. you know he does like to say that politics ain't being -- when we talked. he said real boxing isn't bean bagged.

that isn't what went on last night. instead of taking jabs at president obama as he was used to. he took them at evander holyfield. >> ladies and gentlemen, introducing, mitt the glove romney. >> on friday night the quake in salt lake. once called bird legs now the glove. stripping down to take on evander the real deal holyfield. five time heavy weight champ. one piece of advice for governor romney? >> keep your hands up. >> romney scrambling around the ring. holding his own. >> down goes holyfield. >> in the end, losing again. >> rushing over to romney and a white glove has been thrown. your winner. evander real deal holyfield.

>> as you can tell, i'm not a boxer. and -- don't laugh so hard. >> to keep it at least a little bit fair, he did give him pointers. that he and wife ann were happy to show up. >> you've been waiting a long time -- you're going to put them on? >> we've been waiting a long time to do this. >> you okay? >> what do i do here, put them up? >> put them up. tag your forehead to remind yourself to keep your gloves up. >> went into this ring for a good cause curing blindness around the world. >> we raised million dollars will provide surgeries for 40,000 people. that will be done in a year. it's quite an accomplishment for a year. >> that organization charity vision run by romney's son josh. the real beneficiary of this

spectacle. >> talk to the panel here for a second. i'm curious what you thought of watching this. mitt the glove romney. you talking about seeing a side of a politician you've never seen before. >> it would have helped him a whole lot sooner. i think about the horrible mitt documentary. this footage coming out before the documentary may have helped him. he's been so stiff and robotic. the only thing i didn't like was them walking in yflt. i thought that was tasteless. >> that guy is 68 years old by the way. >> we're in a world straw poll, what are we going to do, get rid of it. i think we solved the problem. >> romney is a good example of a guy that's good at everything in life except for running president. in this case he shows he's good at putting on a show. i'm just curious whether he was able to give stock tips to

holyfield during the course of it. he's so effective in so many different ways in everything but politics. i like it. >> let me ask you i saw you sparring. did you think he would take a shot at you? >> he seem today pull his punches. i felt like i handed one or two more. he was afraid to go all the way in there which i appreciated. steve, i actually think that this might solve the republican party's debate stage problem. they can't put 20 candidates on stage but they could put them in a boxing ring. >> if you can last three rounds with holyfield we'll put you on the stage. see if pataki could handle that. >> he might come out on top. >> be bad for evander holyfield. that sounds like a fun night last night. thank you for putting that together for us. great fun to watch. appreciate it. as we say, obviously much more we're learning just in the last few minutes on the breaking

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all right. we've been reporting this morning on the u.s. special forces raid inside syria. a raid in which a top isis leader abu sayyaf has been killed and his wife captured. as we told you earlier officials telling correspondent richard engel that he was the emir. richard engel joins us live by phone. if you would, take us through everything you know right now about what happened. >> sure. first of all it's significant it took place inside syria. u.s. is operating quite openly and deliberately inside iraq. but moving inside syria is a very different kind of mission all together. there are no friendly forces on the ground. there's no real syrian

opposition. this raid was launched deep into the heart of isis country, which means there were u.s. boots on the ground. this was initially a snatch and grab operation. they were trying to capture abu sayyaf alive. and find out what intelligence me may have had find out more about isis financing. there was a raid. there was a raid on a house. inside the house there were some sort of compound. abu sayyaf and his wife who is being called umm sayyaf was there. there was a gun fight according to a military official. that abu sayyaf did not agree to go peacefully. he was killed. his wife was captured. and yazidi woman which is a local ethnic group that isis has enslaved who was working as a slave for this family was freed in the rescue mission or in this capture mission i should say.

and that there were -- was a gun battle and that 20 other armed insurgents security forces in the area were killed. so it's quite a daring operation to have u.s. special operations forces try to do a snatch and grab mission in the middle of isis country. they did seize some communications equipment. they seized some documents and other bits of intelligence from the home which the u.s. military believes can be useful in learning more about isis. it sends a strong message frankly. it sends a message that the u.s. isn't going to bomb from drones but that if necessary, or if the time and place of the u.s. choosing will go on the ground and try and grab people. it sends a strong message. >> we're hearing so much from people we talked to already

talking about how key it is to undermine the financing how isis gets its money, how it finances its rapgzoperations. that's a crucial component in reducing the power and capability of isis. how significant in the light of that is this killing? is this killing and capture and the information it's gained from this? >> i think the u.s. has already been targeting and other coalition partners have been targeting the isis oil infrastructure. they've been bombing it. that probably has a more direct impact in slowing down their ability to make money off of it than the killing of one leader even if he is the emir of the oil and gas sector according to the u.s. military. i think the more important factor is the psychological one. it's sending a message even if you are in eastern syria, where there are no u.s. troops

operating. it's incredibly dangerous, no journalists in the area. it is firmly under isis control, that even there isis leadership cannot feel comfortable in their homes, that they should be worried about helicopters coming into the night to take them away. the oil and gas sector is important but that oil and gas smuggling will continue after this killing or not. i don't think this is going to stop it. >> correspondent richard engel, appreciate you taking a few minutes this morning. >> absolutely. >> thank you for that. still ahead we will be joined by retired four star general. all the latest on this developing story out of syria.

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general, i guess if we kwd takecould take a bigger picture look at this. assess for us what the strength and position of isis was before this happened right now. so much talk last year about how isis was on the march. its influence and presence was spreading throughout the middle east. in the year sense then, what has happened? what's the state of isis as we digest this story? >> under secretary carter's leadership, the u.s. special forces in particular and also u.s. naval and air force power have significantly danlmaged this organization. the significance to this raid is number one, that is terrific intelligence to take -- he wasn't the salient figure but they had him under surveillance long enough to plan and carry out a flawless operation. so it's a signal again to isis, they're not safe anywhere. not only from a smart bomb off a naval fighter jet but also from

ground raids, very closely targeting their operations. you know, maybe a dozen killed, the special forces unit infiltrated iraq and conducted this raid into eastern syria with tremendous precision. >> we have the defense department telling us no u.s. personnel wounded or killed. how likely is that when you're looking at something on this scale to come out with no casualties on the u.s. side? >> i visited the tier one special forces unit in iraq and afghanistan over the years and watched them in action. they are some of the most remarkable fighters on the face of the earth. more importantly, they're net worked into the national intelligence service in a unusual way. i think the majority of their

operations, to be blunt achieve complete strategic surprise on these targets they go after. and they normally carry out their missions with no problems. by the way regardless of the gun fights on the ground these are dangerous operations usually involving night operations done by helicopter. so that the level of training of these forces and their integration into the larger picture is remarkable. >> retired four star general. thank you for taking time. i want to turn our chief pentagon correspondent joining us on the on the phone. what are you hearing? >> military officials tell nbc news this was an intent gun battle.

the army delta force commandos descended on this isis compound in eastern syria in blockack hawk helicopters. they met heavy resistance is gun battle that went on. and delta force commandos killed at least a dozen isis fighters. this was a fight that actually involved hand to hand combat. that's how close they were in proximity inside that compound. in the battle, of course they killed abu sayyaf. isis oil and gas man. he's the guy who not only made the oil flow but the money flow into isis. this could be a serious, serious blow to isis financing. in the preponderanceocess they grabbed his wife. i asked why the wife. i was told the wife is a key principal player and a very important operative inside the isis organization. this battle was so intense, that

as the helicopters lifted off to take off and flee the scene, they came under heavy gun fire. several of the helicopters took fire. not enough to disable them. and there were no delta force that were wounded or killed in this operation. which, of course, everyone at the pentagon and within the special operations forces considers an overwhelming success at this point. >> those are some fairly amazing details. and the idea that there were no casualties on the u.s. side from what you're describing, hand to hand combat. the helicopter coming under attack. that level of fighting that there's no casualties, that's remarkable. i wonder what you are hearing -- you're talking about the significance of this guy to isis' operations to its financing. potentially the significance of his wife as well. is there a difference, though, obviously the intent here was to

take him alive. the fact he's not been taken alive and killed in the gun fight. is there any significance to the fact they couldn't get him alive and they had to kill him. does that take away from the value of all this? >> because they grabbed his wife at the same time, any intelligence that they may have extracted from abu sayyaf will probably also be something that the wife would also know in terms of intelligence. and, look will isis have somebody up and behind him to take abu sayyaf's place? yeah, probably almost immediately. this is more than just killing sayyaf. and grabbing his wife. this is a huge psychological victory for the u.s. and the coalition forces. because isis pretty much felt that they were impervious, that they couldn't be touched in

eastern syria except through an occasional air strike. this was showing isis the u.s. has the intelligence -- and certainly with the special operations forces, the wherewithal to penetrate their best defenses and grab one of their top people. if nothing else this is a huge psychological victory for the u.s. psychological blow for isis. >> again for those just joining us, u.s. forces killing abu sayyaf, an isis leader who was intimately involved in the financing of that operation. also capturing his wife, umm sayyaf. we are told that she may potentially also have been critical in a role she made. where do you know where the wife is now? what's going to be happening to her now? >> well obviously she'll be taken -- she's in custody. she'll be secluded. she's not going to be mingled with any other prisoners that the u.s. iraq orther the coalition

will hold. this is considered a pretty good get when you're talking about capturing those from the battlefield. and she will undergo some intense interrogation over any period of time to extract as much information as they can. >> nbc's chief correspondent. all new sorts of details. some remarkable stuff there. he's describing an intense gun battle that played out in this raid in hand to hand combat. again, the headline out of that in addition to the killing of the isis leader, the capture of his wife, no u.s. forces, no casualties when it comes to u.s. forces. remarkable given what was described there. much more for you as we continue on the other side of this break. and the 45 highway mpg tdi clean diesel. and last but not least the high performance gti. looks like we're gonna need a bigger

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umm sayyaf. she's being held by u.s. military forces. both of them we just heard apparently intimately involved in the leadership of isis and its operations. keeping a close eye on that. more details as we learn them. in the meantime, we will turn back for a few minutes to politics to the 2016 race. the republican committee is facing an unprecedented dilemma. how do you organize a presidential debate when just about every republican candidate seems to be running. al at least 20 are exploring running or running for the republican side. trying to fit that many candidates on the same stage and make sure they have a chance to say something. that's an impossible task. that is what this year's debate organizers have to figure out. they have to figure out who they can get away with leaving of the

debates. this is what we used to think about a crowded debate stage. this was back in 2008 when there were nine candidates out. they were criticized then for leaving people out. former louisiana governor was left out. as well as former governor gary johnson of new mexico. three people with real credentials were left out of the debates. politico reporting yesterday that the closed door guidance from the republican national committee is 12 candidates will be the maximum allowed for a debate. sean spicer passing the buck saying it would be up to the television networks who produce and air the debates to decide who gets to participate in those debates. we're just over two months away from the fifrsrst republican debate. should it be up to the networks to decide and what criteria

might they be using? to figure out the thorny questions we have long time television producer. >> i think we'll face there will be more people on the stage than who will be watching. >> we want to make sure we can see the screen. we're going to use our board here. thin this field. there are 16 of the most likely republican candidates here. 16 is too many on the debate stage. we want to ask you first of all, who are the four you'd cut to get us down to 12. when you look at this roster of republican candidates. can you see any that jump out at you? >> maybe jeb bush. >> you'd cut jeb bush? >> you know, every time he's asked a question, he seems to mess up the answers. so maybe he'll volunteer not to be. >> i'm guessing jeb wants in. i'm guessing the republicans want him in. you look at the field of candidates. there are dilemmas here for

republicans. carly fiorina is somebody i hear from a lot of republicans they want her in the debates because she attacks hillary clinton aggressively and they don't want all men attacking hillary clinton. when you look at the polls, she's at about 0% right now. how can you create criteria that gets her into the field? >> you could put up with candidates who are angling to be the vice president on the ticket. i think that would probably encompass our friend carly. that's one possibility. look, there is a solution to this. you have everybody on. remember the debates are just one sound bite that is a memorable sound bite. you have each of these guys come up with a killer sound bite and that's t. no questions. >> you are deuce the candidates -- >> whoever wins the killer sound bite of the day wins the debate. >> you talk about the power of these debates. sometimes we say maybe they're overrated. i think back to 2012 on the

republican side and newt gring gingrich is sitting back. and he thazhas the debate from john king about the inappropriate questions. he wins south carolina by 15 pounds points. >> maybe the strategy for each of these guys will be to come up with the most atraekttractive way to bash the media. >> ted cruz will be in. rand paul, jeb bush. where is the cut line? i struggle to see it. >> it's not much a struggle to think that donald trump. >> donald trump. that's not how you use that. we will x out donald trump. we down to 15. >> then we have george pataki not for any other reason than he's too tall. >> three term governor from a

major state. >> and parenerennial candidate. >> absolutely. three term governor. >> sorry, bob says you're out. >> we have people like john kasich who. >> governor of ohio. >> some republicans who don't think he's a republican anyway. >> first debate, though, is in cleveland, ohio. he's the governor of ohio. >> he does have homefield advantage. rick perry might not want to be in because he might have another oops moment. chris christie. >> chris christie wants in. i know that. >> he wants in but he got stuck in traffic on the way over. >> there we go. you brought the one liners. what about like ben carson, in or out? >> somebody has to convince him it's not brain surgery. i suspect they'll want him in for a variety of reasons. he's the anti-politician. he's trying to fashion himself

that way. i suspect -- >> he polls pretty well. he's sitting at 5%. bobby jindal, this is governor of a major state, louisiana. two term governor. if you poll him he's down to 1% right now. is he in or out? >> in spite of the fact he's running the campaign to be the nastiest campaign. i suspect he'll be in. lindsey graham, some of the hard core republicans think he's a rhino. >> we've got it down to 14. who is the most likely cut after these two? >> that's a good question. i don't think we should cut any of them. >> you want the sound bite. >> i want the sound bite to be. beyond that, these are candidates who have crossed the line into the credible candidate line. even though the polls aren't showing it yet. it's early. it's really early.

maybe have to rethink the idea of debates. >> it's a system of the fact they don't have a front runner. a lot of credible people can step forward and say why not me >> the democrats have the opposite problem. how do they fill the stage. hillary and just the except hillary wouldn't answer any of his or her questions. >> thanks for your insight. we appreciate that. obviously, much more news this morning on that raid we've been following all morning special forces in eastern syria killing a key member of isis, capturing his wife. more details ahead on that right after this. ...and takes the wheel right from your very hands... ...this isn't that car. the first and only car with direct adaptive steering. ♪ the 328 horsepower q50

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all right. we've been closely following this morning all of the news about that u.s. special forces raid inside of syria. a raid in which a top isis leader named abu sooif has been killed and his wife captured.

msnbc correspondent showing what involved hand to hand combat between army fighters and delta force commanders. no hurt in the fight. took sief's wife also to be a key isis operative with them. as helicopters were departed, struck by heavy ground fire but they were able to depart the area safely. joined on the phone with michael cay, a senior british officer. the most remarkable thing here that i'm hearing is jim reporting hand to hand combat here. reports of at least 12 isis fighters killed in this fighting and not a single american casualty apparently. >> i think isis has been on the rampage in syria.

specifically isis put up flags in southwest of baghdad. they've been hitching with multiple e.i.d.s, improsized explosive devices. they've been going to central syria. palmyra. this is interesting. according to my sources very high up in the u.k. ministry of defense. u.k. and u.s. forces have been operating over a year. not just operating on the tactical side but also been training with the ypg. the kurdish rebels within syria and they've been also just sort of expanding the fight, if you like, with moderates not only engaged in the fight against isis but the syrian regime. >> does this point to then a more significant, i mean what

you're suggesting from the sources you're talking to there has been a more significant, a more robust u.s. or western presence on the ground. boots on the ground and how hesitant we are to send boots on the ground. we've had a boots on the ground presence in syria. >> reporter: i think boots on the ground suggests a mass of soldiers and amass of capability. we don't have boots on the ground. we do have special forces capability sniper capability. we have been working inside syria and iraq at the moment, directing air strikes on targets, for example. that's the key bit that we're missing here. we talk about air strikes in syria and iraq. what we are missing is the ability to be able to penetrate an act decisively. that's what the special forces capability gives the west at the

moment. there's a dichotomy going on, steve, at the moment with the forces in syria which are isis, the nuzra front, associated with al qaeda the syrian regime and hezbollah outside of the syrian regime. there's sort of a dichotomy at the moment between all the groups in syria who's contesting what areas? we know that raqqa is the self-proclaimed capital of syria which isis declared but then nuzra. and then in the northeast of syria and then damascus held by syrian regime and then hezbollah to help protect. there's a lot of protagonist in syria going on at the moment. what's going on or what the west had just done is eliminated the senior component of isis which

may or may not help in the future. >> and just quickly mike in terms of an operation of this scale of this precision, how much planning time do you think something like this takes to pull off? >> reporter: well, i used to conduct missions in baghdad for many years between 2006 and 2008. and we were working off an intelligence network that had been grown for years. i mean i'm talking maybe a couple of years and i'd go in every day and i'd talk with the senior leadership within the sf community and there would be a spider network on the board. see who was controlling logistics, see who was controlling training. slowly but surely usually by a mobile phone call or cell phone, we would go in and take the individuals out. usually a trigger like a mobile phone call. it takes months years to work

out who's doing what and where their location is going to be in order to conduct a strike. >> thanks to michael kay for your analysis this morning. this morning's panel, very abbreviated because of the breaking news but angela we'll have you all back again soon. appreciate you being with us this morning. thank you for getting up with us this morning. melissa harris-perry is on top of this next out of syria. she is coming up next. have a great saturday. are the thinkers. the job jugglers. the up all-nighters. and the ones who turn ideas into action. we've made our passions our life's work. we strive for the moments where we can say, "i did it!" ♪ ♪ we are entrepreneurs who started it all... with a signature. legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses, turning dreamers into business owners. and we're here to help start yours.

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