could save you. the great train mystery, did a flying object cause that amtrak train cash? i'll talk to an expert on whether that alone could have triggered disaster.rash? i'll talk to an expert on whether that alone could have triggered disaster. frightening moments when a child is dragged by a school bus. hear how it happened. and beating the odds. a look at the people most likely to buy lottery tickets and some may surprise you. and mitt romney going toe to toe with kasie hunt? you'll see if anyone scored a knockout.

hello, everyone. it's high noon here in the east. 9:00 a.m. in the west. first breaking news out of syria. u.s. special forces carried out an overnight raid killing a top isaiah commander named abu sayyaf. it was conducted by helicopter. officials say as many as a dozen other isis members all of whom served as local security personnel were also killed. richard engel joining us from istanbul. what more can you tell us about the raid? >> reporter: this was a very bold raid. it was intended to be a snatch and grab operation with american delta force commandos going in on black hawk helicopters,s on brings. it was launched out of the kurdistan region of northern iraq.it was launched out of the kurdistan region of northern iraq. the attention was to capture

sayyaf and his wife alive and to see what kind of intelligence they might be able to provide to u.s. intelligence agencies and to the u.s. military. once the commandos were on the ground, however, they were engaged in an intense firefight a military official at the pentagon told jim miklaszewski that it was even hand to hand combat at one stage. in this gungunfight, an you would you abu sayyaf was killed and the wife taken into u.s. custody along with another woman used as a slave. and the wife being debriefed by u.s. intelligence in iraq. >> richard, what do we know abouting a abu sayyaf and what

do we hope to gain from this mission despite him being killed? >> reporter: he isng a abu sayyaf and what do we hope to gain from this mission despite him being killed? >> reporter: he isg a abu sayyaf and what do we hope to gain from this mission despite him being killed? >> reporter: he is a abu sayyaf and what do we hope to gain from this mission despite him being killed? >> reporter: he isa abu sayyaf and what do we hope to gain from this mission despite him being killed? >> reporter: he is abu sayyaf and what do we hope to gain from this mission despite him being killed? >> reporter: he is a senior isis leader, described as someone in charge not only of the oil and gas portfolio for isis, which is an important portfolio, but that is it how isis raises a great deal of money. you always want to follow the money. and they didn't just take -- they did not just kill abu sayyaf sayyaf, they took his wife and also communications equipment from the compound where he was staying. so if you can follow that money trail, it could lead to significant developments. also abu sayyaf was someone who is believed to have been or was believed to is been personally close to the ameer al baghdadi. >> as you're well aware, ashton carter has released a statement saying that this operation represents another significant blow to isis.

but how significant is this raid in the overall fight against them especially when we consider that isis forces in iraq have just taken control of government buildings in ramadi? >> well, globally, i don't think it will be a game changing kind of event. you have as you said isis taking new ground in the city of ramadi, isis forces right on the foot steps of the ancient and very beautiful historic site in syria. so isis still able to conduct defensive operations. but this is a very aggressive operation from the u.s. military. launched by u.s. special operations forces authorized by the president, putting american troops boots on the ground in harm's way in the middle of isis territory in syria. there was only one time prior to this where american special operations forces were sent into syria, were actually on the

ground in syria and that was last july when there was an attempt to rescue american hostages and other foreign hostages who are being held by isis. if you remember there was a raid helicopters went in, and unfortunately, the hostages weren't there. wlaus wat military call as dry hole. this time a snatch and grab operation specifically intended to grab abu sayyaf. he was killed. they took his wife instead and some equipment. >> what do they hope to get from his wife? is she an active leader within isis was she merely participating along side her husband? >> reporter: she's been described as an active isis militant part of the leadership. and someone who specifically was involved in what the u.s. government and military military say is human trafficking. that means kidnapped. kidnapped for ransom.

and if she had information about foreign hostages who were being held, perhaps she would have information about when they were being held, who was caring for them who was involved in the life support mechanism that would be involved to sustain hostages. you have to keep them clothed fed. on there is hope that she has intelligence about the hostage network that isis has been using also for money like the oil and gas sector. >> all right. richard engel thank you so much. and we will have a lot more on this a little bit later on in the air. i'll talk with an analyst who will put this raid into context and let us know what he positionthinks this means for the future isis. let's go to the amtrak derailment in philadelphia. during a news conference an official from the ntsb described what investigators found after

reports that the train's wind shield live been hit with an in- in-unknown object. >> if you're tapping in the middle of the cab, center line over shear where the engineer's windshield, other here is the other wind shield. lower portion of the left hand windshield, there is a circular pattern that emanates out just a bit. >> an assistant amtrak conductor told investigators that she recalled hearing an engineer from the local commuter rail tell the dispatch center that his train had been hit by a rock or shot at and the train had to make an emergency stop. she also recalls hearing brandon bostian reply something about his train being struck, too. and joining me now from philadelphia's amtrak station is adam reese. adam, what do you know about the ntsb's interview with brandon bostian, the engineer? >> reporter: they say he's been very cooperative he even

offered to come back for more interviews should they need it as the investigation continues. he says the last thing he remember was ringing his bell as will they went through the philadelphia station, north philadelphia station. he says he didn't have any illness or any fatigue. he's been doing this route for a while now five days a week back and forth between new york and d.c. he just doesn't remember the crash. minutes before the crash, an assistant conductor on his train recalls hearing over her radio conversation between bostian and an engineer on a nearby accept take oig, that engineer told bostian he had just been hit by a projectile and bostian responded i was hit, too. another acela train also reported to nbc news that he was hit with a projectile. here is robert sumwalt with the ntsb yesterday. >> he recalls ringing the train bell as he went through the north philadelphia station, that's not a thunderstormnormal station

stop, but he's required by regulations to sound his bell. i may have said horn. he's required to sound his bell as he goes through past a station stop and he did that. he recalled doing that. but he has no recollection of anything past that. >> reporter: the ntsb is not ready to draw any conclusions based on what they found so far. they will reassemble the train to inspect it. amtrak says they hope to have limited service by monday full service by tuesday. >> adam, so the area in which the accept take oig train and acela express train were allegedly hit by something, is that the same area pretty much where the derailed train with such the tragic consequences is it the same area in which that happened? >> reporter: it appears to be the same area. it appears to be some what have a pattern. two windows were hit and on the acela, it appears a passenger

window was hit. so there does seem to be some kind of pattern. was it a rock was it a bullet we just don't know. >> all right. adam reese in philadelphia for us. thanks so much. other news now a court in egypt has sentenced mohammad morsi to death. ousted leader was convicted for a mass prison break during unrest that led to the toppling of mubarak. more 100 other member hes of the thes of the muslim brotherhood were also given the death sentence p. remains of all eight soldiers have been recovered by the site of the crashed marine helicopter. they were helping with earthquake relief efforts. and a grade school in louisville, kentucky is recovering after being dragged down the street by a school bus. the student was exiting the bus friday afternoon when her backpack got stuck in the door. the driver pulled away and dragged the girl about 100 feet before realizing what was going on.

>> really i don't see how you didn't know the girl was dragging. it was amazing. i couldn't believe it. her bouncing around in that door all waet downthe way down the street. >> the child suffered road rash but is expected to be okay. now weather and potentially dangerous situation developing. western nebraska got a nasty dose of it last night. residents experienced intense lightning and thunder. and they also endured pretty big hail. and now there is concern about more severe storms this will weekend. the weather channel's reynolds wolf is here with more. good day to you. >> taking a look at what we can expect today, 45 million americans dealing with severe weather in this area of wlp jet stream just a few of the features why. we'll be dealing with the upper level low that will be driving its way toward the east. it will interact not only with moisture from the gulf of

mexico, but the surface winds and upper level winds. but you can man the dew points we're going to experience for so many people will be one of the things that will help fuel the instability. some places like oklahoma city might have clearing by midday, but that will help really fan the flames in terms of the strong fiery storms in to the afternoon. thunderstorms, tornados, long track tornados all possible from the u.s. canadian border clear down to central texas, even to the big bend region. got to be ready for it. tor:con within 50 miles 4 out of 10 for parts of north texas. shamrock poeshlssibly in to dallas, 5 out of 10. oklahoma city, 6 out of 10 and the threat continues all the way back into to the northern plains. back to you. just ahead, dzhokhar tsarnaev and his death sentence for his role in the boston marathon bombing. i'll speak to a reporter who watched the entire trial play out in the courtroom. you'll hear what she has to say

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members of a federal jury in boston today are trying to get their lives back to normal after sentencing the boston marathon bomber to death. dzhokhar tsarnaev stood in the courtroom as the 24 page jury decision was read. the jury clearly rejecting the defense case that tsarnaev acted under the you influence of his older brother. victims and their family members reacted outside the courthouse. >> we can start taking steps to get our lives back and not have to concentrate on what is left to be done here. >> i have to watch my two sons put a leg on every day, so i mean, i don't know if closure, but i can tell you it feel like a weight has been lifted on of my shoulders.

so i think there is shall form of a good feeling. >> let's bring in alisha pa lum bow from nechbsn to join us. what did you hear yesterday of a the ter the verdict? >> well, it was really silent when the verdict came down. there was almost no emotion in the courtroom which was in talk contest to what was being decided there. they were making a decision on a man's life and they sentenced him to death. and there was very little reaction in the courtroom from the survivor, victims' relatives sitting there in the courtroom and from tsarnaev himself. he's 21 years old and he has been sentenced to death. he will be put to death unless the appeals work in the next 10 to 15 years. we know those take some time. you did see a solemn look on the juror's faces. they knew the gravity of this decision and obviously a very

difficult decision for them. >> having covered a death penalty trial myself back in the day, there is nothing quick like sitting in that. i know it's very quiet. whether you support the death penalty or not, it's a very sobering moment. and i know you watched that jury every single day. were you surprised that they came back with the death penalty? >> i was surprised because it's such a difficult decision to make on the one hachbd, but on the other hand, i wasn't surprised because as the government argued if not for this case, then for what case would you use the death penalty. there was overwhelming evidence dzhokhar tsarnaev was involved, that he placed a backpack with a pressure cooker behind family, killing martin richard and lindsay lu and that he conspired with his brother to do these boppings, to then go to m.i.t. shoot and kill m.i.t. police

officer sean collier. and then go to watertown, massachusetts and have that firefightpolice officer sean collier. and then go to watertown, massachusetts and have that firefightshoot and kill m.i.t. police officer sean collier. and then go to watertown, massachusetts and have that firefight in which tamerlan died. >> he showed a little emotion in the trial. did he show a little bit of emotion, his aunt was of itting on his behalf. but did you see any other times in the trial where tsarnaev reacted to the events? >> no. and i think that helped inform the jury's decision. because one of the main questions was did he show remorse. and the jury clearly felt he did not. the only time he showed any emotion was for himself. and for his family and for what he's done to his relatives not the what he's done to the relatives of these victims. >> and next in the case is what? >> so we're going to have a formal sentencing. the judge is bound by the sentence of the jury. so he will have to sentence him to death.

but they still they'd to have will this formal sentencing hearing. victims' relatives can speak and tsarnaev can speak if he wishes to. we have not yet heard from him. >> automatically this comes with automatic appeals. is there a consensus as to how long he may remain on death row before ultimately be executed should appeals of course not work? >> it seems as though it could take quite some time. i know the appeals process itself takes about 10 to 15 years. so is krags thedrags the process out. his attorney judy clark, this is the first time she has not been able to spare someone's life heat least in the trial phase. so no doubt she or whomever is designed to do his appeals will be fighting very hard to get this overturned. >> do we know the circumstances in prison under which he will live? it was widely discussed with

life in prison, he'd be in a solitary confinement basically a cell block where he would only get an hour a day to communicate with anybody else. is it the same type of thing on dwet row? >> they only talked about that very briefly because the focus was really on the adx prison, the super max prison in colorado and the conditions there and whether that was the right thing to do. whether that was the worst punishment punishment punishment. but we presume he would be headed to death row in terre haute. but we just don't know what those conditions are. at the least not based on what was testified about in this trial. >> all right. something we'll likely find out the next time he appears in court. thank you so much. appreciate your insights. still ahead, how much hone did you make last tuesday? we'll tell you how much money bill clinton pulled in and why he and his wife's finances are the talk of the town. the world is filled with air. but for people with copd sometimes breathing air can be difficult.

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fbi has been produce the into analyze damage to the wind shield of amtrak 188 after report it is might have been hit with an unknown object. but there are still many other questions to be answered in the investigation into tuesday's fatal crash. let's bring in democratic congressman and former lieutenant governor and sits on the house transportation committee. welcome, sir. glad to have you join us. talk about the steps the investigation are lukely to take with this new development about something perhaps hitting the train. >> that's always a possibility. and there is often that kind of vandalism on trains that are traveling up and down these very heavily used corridors. could have have been part of the reason for the accident? we don't know. there is a long way to go on the investigation. but we do know there is something that we must do as americans and that is to improve our infrastructure to make the investments in our infrastructure so that we would have in this case positive train control that would have prevent

that had train from going so fast into that turn. so it's not happening and that's the great up fortunate part about what is going on in congress right now. >> but sir may i ask you positive rain control, that was something that was mandated after the 2008 chatsworth crash. you can tell us how the mapndate came about and how it has not yet been implemented? >> amtrak was on schedule to complete the positive train control by the end of this year. and i think they would have done it. unfortunately, this is a very, very expensive process and we have tens of thousands of miles of train track around the nation. some of it in these very, very heavily used coryridorscorridors. you mentioned the chatsworth incident out seedside of l.a. about so that these are critical

investments that are not -- well right now the republican led congress is schlly not willing to put up the money. in fact the morning after the tragic crash in philadelphia the republican congress cut the annual budget by $251 million and that was money was going to be used to upgrade the tracks and to finish the positive train control systems. so we have bridges falling down, roads in disrepair. i just this monday drove over from modesto to san francisco, very heavily used interstate highway. the fast line. there is a 6 inch crack down the middle of the fast line for miles. we're making in my view bad decisions about where we're spending the taxpayer money. >> the irony of congress cutting

money the day after that wastq=x not lost on anyone watching. let's take a listen to what speaker boehner had to say about the bunding this week. >> raw goal going to ask such a stupid question? listen they started this yesterday and it's all about funding. all about funding. obviously it's not about funding. the train was going twice the speed limit. no money has been cut from rail safety and the house passed a bill earlier this week to reauthorize amtrak and authorize a lot of these programs. >> where sdw the truth lie? >> i think he's probably a little embarrassed about what he said and he should be. yes you can we yes, we did pass an authorization bill that says the government can undertake these programs. the next step is to appropriate the money and that's where the

real crunch occurred. in fact the appropriation committee controlled by the republicans voted along party lines to actually reduce year to year funding, that is 2015 to 2016, budget year funding by $241 million for safety and upgrade of the capital improvement, the rails along the northeast corridor. that's a fact. now, will that be the final word of it? no, that bill is now going to go to the floor of the house and when it does, you can rest assured that the did thatemocrat, i among them, will do everything we can to meet the president's request of over $2 billion not $1.1 billion, but $2 billion for amtrak not only on the northeast corridor but unless my own district here in california what we call the capital corridor between sacramento and san jose down through the bay area. a very, very heavily used

stretch of track. and there are other places among the united states that desperately need to have their rail systems upgraded. and then we have the highways and the water systems and sanitation systems and airports. we're becoming a third rate country because we're not making the critical investments in the foundation for economic growth and that's the total infrastructure system. we may do this otherwise we will fall off the power curve and we'll have trains falling off the track. >> representative, pretty sobering. thank you very much for coming on the broadcast. so is that your final answer? you'll hear all this week's different responses from presidential contender jeb bush on the iraq war question. he says she's an undisciplined overwaterer.

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it was conducted by helicopter in the eastern city of deir ez-zur. sayyaf's wife was capture and is now being held. and a dozen others were also killed. joining me now is a former cia counterterrorism analyst and with a welcome to you, tell me why abu sayyaf's death is significant. >> he's significant because number one, he was actually trying to -- united states tried to capture him not kill him. if the united states just wanted him dead, they would have sent an f-16 over his compound and dropped a bomb on him. so we were trying to actually capture him because he was a person who had a lot of information on how isis maintains its oil and gas infrastructure. another thing that he could have provided information about was who is -- where are all these senior leaders includinging a

baghdadi. so this was an incredibly important not very well-known individual, but he was a critical critical node within the organization itself. >> the fact that they have his wife, is she someone who is expected to give up the kind of information that they had hoped to get from him? >> well, if she can give up any information whatsoever, if she can give up any information about leading to other leaders because they probably all know each other that would be very useful thinking about the financial conditions. another issue is human trafficking. isis does terrible things with slaves and they liberated -- u.s. special forces liberated one captive slave girl. so she's probably going to go home to her family very soon. but the fact that you can put a crimp on human trafficking, that can be something she can

providing for on. >> and defense secretary ashton carter i'm sure you've heard released a statement in which he said that the operation represents another significant blow to isis. put that in perspective for me. the significance of this raid in the overall fight when we consider all the recent clashes, reuters was reporting that isis forces in iraq are withdrawing from a government compound in ramadi ramadi. where do we stand? >> that's the thing we're talking about the death of a senior commander. but the organization is a resilient one. so it's a setback for the organization, but for us to say they're really on the run as you basically said, when you kill an individual, it does not mean that the war is over.

far from it. this person had a lot of financial information. so if we can use that to drive up some of their financial capabilities, that's a great thing, but it won't win the war. >> okay. thank you so much for your insights. we're watching several new developments in the investigation of tuesday's fatal amtrak derailment. in fact the ntsb spoke with the train's engineer and the ntsb said brandon bostian was cooperative but could not remember anything of the accident. an assistant conductor told the ntsb says she heard the engineer say a projectile may have hit the train's wind shield. part of windshield had damage not consistent with trash damage. let's bring in cathry owe'leary hoe begins. the new details, does that change the nation the investigation? >> well, it adds to and he is. the ntsb has a history of working with the fbi, so that's

not a new relationship. the fbi obviously has been asked to come in and analyze that damage. and try and i had tiedentify what might have actually hit the train. the question is whether that whatever hit the train was accidental to the accident or directly relate to the accident itself. denieding on ing depending on their analysis will affect the direction the accident investigation takes. >> here is how robert sumwalt described the damage. let's listen. >> if you're standing in the middle of the locomotive cab over here is the engineer's wind shield, here the other. and lower portion of the left hand windshield, there is a circular pattern that emanates out just a bit. >> what are the factors that investigators use in trying to determine what caused that

windshield pattern? >> well, they will use -- again, this is the fbi doing this investigation of that particular part of the wind shield as i understand it. they will use their technology and whatever other means they have whether it was a rock or a bullet or some other type of projectile. they will figure it out that's what they're good at, these crime investigations. we don't know that it's a crime but it very well could possibly be a crime. >> how concerned are you when you hear the news that there was that local commuter train that reported having a wind shield problem, the septa train spokesperson saying trains through area has had projectiles thrown at them in the past also acela express southbound in that general area had something else reported proceed jek toil thrown

at them as well, or tossed or fired. how much of an impact do you think this could have on what happened? >> it's very troubling. i guess i'm surprised if those incidents are known and apparently they're not new that i'd be curious to know what is being done to prevent them. we certainly know there have been incidents where thicks have been thrown off the brins that have affected drivers of cars. it's the same effect. and -- >> and people also to take a laser, a light and shine it up to the cockpit of a plane. >> that's right. it can be very -- obviously very distracting to pilots in that case. and the question is whatever happened was enough to distract the operator of the train to cause him to lose situational awareness and to not break and not slow down when he should have. >> cath lynnkatherine o'leary higgins,

thank you so much. new information today on the earning power of hillary clinton and former president bill clinton. it came late friday in a required filing to the federal elections commission and showed the clintons earned some $30 million since january 2014 $25 million of which came from speaking fees. the other $5 million from hillary clinton's book "hard choices." joining me now, lauren fox. and with a welcome to you, lauren. this news is not necessarily unexpected because the clintons earning power has been pretty well known. for example bill clinton reportedly made $500,000 last tuesday he delivered two speeches. but the big picture, how much does this mean in the context of the presidential race? >> i think that voters expect that candidates who are running for president might not be charging speaking fee, they will be giving stump speech. but a former president has always gone out and given speeches. i think we know bill clinton

likes and enjoys being in front of an audience. that's what he's told the "today" show. he likes doing the research, he has a fun time doing it. so it's not really that surprising that they're making quite a bit of money. he's a talented speaker and that's how he built his legacy as a president. i think moving forward the key is for the clintons to be transparent about about how much money they're making, when they're making it and who they're giving these speeches to. that has seemed to be the problem in the past. >> let's talk about potential 2016 candidate jeb bush who offered a number of different answers this week to essentially the same question, that being knowing what we know now about iraq would he have gone ahead with the war. here's what he said. >> i would have. i interpreted the question wrong i guess p i was talking about given what people knew then would you have done it. rather than knowing what we know now. >> i respect the question, but if we're going to get back into hype hypotheticals, it does a disservice for those who

sacrificed a lot. >> if we're all supposed to answer hypothetical questions, knowing what we know now, what would you have done i would have not have gone into iraq. >> so why did the week evolve like it did and is this now over for jeb bush or will it continue to be an obstacle for him and fodder for republican rivals? >> well this is always going to be a difficult question for jeb bush. the about your maim is tied so innately to the iraq war that i think it's very hard to detangle the two and this is always going to be a hard question. he said he didn't understand the first time. the second time he tried just not to answer it. and then the third time he finally came out and said if i have to answer this then i'm going to give you a definitely no i wouldn't have done it. but i think that that's part of the trick here. i don'ten if it's over for jeb bush but certainly other candidates have already come out strankly and ly strongly and said they wouldn't have gone into iraq. and i think campaign stumbles will be interesting to watch, other candidates will have them

too. but certainly this was an expected moment for jeb bush that was going to be difficult. >> i can't let you go without asking about mitt romney. the former gop presidential nominee squaring off in a boxing match against evander holyfield. did raise 1 politicalmillions bucks. ann romney tweeting out this picture. i know this was for charity, but why a boxing match? >> well, i think mitt romney has been trying to show the american people for a long time since he ran for president in 2012 that he can hang where normal americans. that he is not some kind of elitist that can't get along and have a good time. and i think that's sort of what he was trying to do here. he's going to go out and stump for other 2016 candidates i'm sure in the next presidential cycle. and this sort of helps make him a little more likeable with the american public. >> he's in great shape. i got to say. >> it looks like he took it press seriously. >> took a couple round.

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make a mess make a mess, make a mess make a big mess your first words tide he turbo clean. 6x cleaning power in 1/2 the time. that's my tide what's yours? last year americans spent more than $70 billion on lottery tickets while about 40% of lottery sales go to the state to pay it for schools, some would say this so-called hidden tax is not spread out evenly. in fact the poorest third of americans buy half of all lottery tickets. joining me now is derrick thompson atlantic breaks down the numbers in his new article lotteries, america's $70 billion shame. so who is spending all the money? >> i think you nailed it right there in the opening. $70 billion, more than we spend on sports ticket, movie ticket book, video games and recorded

music sales combined. and a duke university study from the 1980s wanted to look at who actually is accounting for all these sales and they found the bottom third percent of households account for half of all lottery sales. other studies from north carolina and other states have found that not only are poor people more likely to buy lottery tickets but also lottery tickets are more likely to be advertised in lower income neighborhoods. so this is a tax as you mentioned funds government services that is disproportionately pushed on to the poor. it is a regressive tax. >> in terms of the why you cite an interesting study which breaks down who buys lottery tickets for fun, who buys them with the hope of really winning all that money. how did that break down? >> so this is really interesting. two studies, one said we've figured out that about half of people say they buy it specifically for fun, the other half say we buy it more for an investment. but it turns out the are poorer people get the more likely they are to see lottery tickets, not

as pure fun, but also as an investment. it kind of automatic savings vehicle or something like that. the other study was even more interesting. it said let's take a look at lottery tickets and something else we can all agree is entertainment and not an investment. movie tickets. and it turned out that the poorer you got, the more likely you were to buy lottery tickets but not movie tickets. and this suggests to me that lottery tickets are not mere entertainment, they are a prayer against poverty. and so it's in the right to me that a government that state governments should be taking taxes away from corporations, not taxing richer households, but rather enacting something that like voluntary spending but has the same effect as a tax. >> anybody looking at these numbers, swerpinterpret being them as negative, is it that unfair? pretty much everyone spends money on at least some unnecessary distractions or vices. >> oh, right.

absolutely. i think there are two ways to think about this. one is to say as you mentioned 40% of these sales are going to the state and then when you win over $600, that's hit with the 45% wind fall tax. maybe the state should take less and he reward more, which makes lotteries less like a tax to fund government and more like money being spread around. but in fact i think the move to aggressively market these sort of games in lower income areas does actually specifically prey on the poor. prey on the people who are most likely to see this as a way to get rich quickly even though they won't. that strikes me as a pernicious policy to replace corporate and income taxes with something that looks like voluntary spending but has the exact same droughtout come. >> a fascinating article. thank you. tuesday's amtrak derailment sheds new light on the aging

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>> the crash of train 188 is bringing attention to other potential regards today s todaydisasters. oil shipped is up 20 fold. nearly a half million car loads shipped by rail in 2013. a new op-ed outlines reasons for concerns. >> 80% of these cars should not be handling petroleum. 30,000 gallons of fuel per car. very volatile.

>> let's bring in the document tearian. is rolling time bomb. is that the situation with oil shipments? >> statistically a number of these cars has grown dramatically since 2008 i think there were about 9,000 of these cars and now it's as you suggest over half a million, 500,000 cars. and statistically it's just inevitable that these things will have accidents. >> and much of this oil i understand it originates in north dakota or canada, but it travels through urban areas in chicago, new york are there extra precautions taken when these trains move through these densely populated cities? >> no sadly there is no extra precautions taken. and you're right they move through big cities and small towns, here in new york state they come through albany and then down the hudson river or by train along the hudson river through new jersey to

philadelphia. from where we sit in new york city they're just 3 1/2 miles away. and when you have 500,000 of these cars running over not particularly great infrastructure, it's just inevitable that there will be accidents, there will be spills. and when these things go off the rail because of the combination of light oil and variety of gases mixed in, propane et cetera they tend to be very flam flammable. >> you do pay attention in the documentary to the kinds of oil shipped. there was a report last year that found bakken crude is highly volatile, but they were manufacturers say it's just as safe as other types of crude. the quote, the information provided confirms that this bakken crude oil does not pose risks significantly different than other crude oils or other

flamable flam flammable liquids. so what did you find? >> if you took a barrel of what jed clampett took out of the ground, it would never light on fire. what they took out of the bakken is extremely flackle.mmable. one thing they should be doing is separating some of that at the origin and then shipping the safer stuff across the country. but that's an expense they don't want to bear. about ten days ago, the department of transportation came out with a new set of rules and regulations to try to monitor these things because just in this year alone there have been a half dozen of these horrific accidents. i'm sure you've seen the pictures of the railcars piled up on fire. but the rules that the d.o.t. proposed are pretty weak and not to take place for the next two and four and six and eight years. by that time, who knows how much of this shale gas will still be shipping. >> a danger on rails.

john, thank you so much. good luck with the film. coming up in the next hour, the emotional case of a so-called off the grid family fighting to regain custody of their ten children. >>who... is this?! >>hi, i am heinz new mustard. hi na na na na >>she's just jealous because you have better taste. whatever. >>hey. keep your chin up. for years, heinz ketchup has been with the wrong mustard. well, not anymore. introducing heinz new better tasting yellow mustard. mmm!

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the amtrak cash, a key radio transmission and damaged windshield. why those may be key clues to solving the accident. off the grid. it's a home that is more like a shack with no running water, but is that any reason for authorities to remove a couple's ten children? and the fighting spirit. mitt romney takes on a heavyweight champ and dukes it out with caseykasie hunt. but who comes out the real winner. good day. welcome to weekends with alex witt. as we begin with breaking news out of syria, u.s. military officials say u.s. special forces carried out an overnight raid killing a top isis

commander named abu sayyaf. it was conducted by helicopter. officials say as many as a dozen other isis members all of whom served as local security personnel were also killed. kristen welker is joining us from the white house. what more you can tell us about this raid? >> reporter: according to a statement released by bernadette meehan, president obama approved this operation the mission was aimed at capturing an isis leader known as abu sayyaf. and his wife. but during that operation, abu sayyaf was killed. here are a few details. according to nbc's jim miklaszewski, senior defense and military officials say the raid was carried out by army delta force commandos. the spreshl operations forces in black hawk helicopters and osprey tilt wing aircraft raided

an isis compound in eastern syria and an intense firefight ensued ensued. 12 other enemy fighters are with also killed, but no u.s. personnel were killed. the wife is currently in u.s. custody, i'm told she's being questioned as we speak. u.s. forces also freed a young woman apparently being held as a slave by the couple. an one official says the wife may have been involved in a broader human trafficking effort and is a key player in isis. abu sayyaf was a senior isis leader involved in the military but also had a senior overseeing isis oil and gas prices. that's significant because oil and gas is a key source of revenue for the organization. in a statement defense secretary ash carter said, quote, the operation represents another significant blow to isis and it is a reminder that the united

states will never waiver this denying safe haven to terrorists who threaten our citizens. the president is also expressing his gratitude. s forces are hoping that the wife and other intelligence that they collected from the raid will ultimately help lead them to other members of isis. >> which iskristen welker, thank you so much. let's bring in ambassador mark ginsburg. i'd like to have you tell me what we know about who abu sayyaf was and how significant is his death. >> well actually he's very little known about him. he's a tunisian. he wasn't even in the top list of military commanders of isis that the united states had a bouptsity on. but what is more importantly he was the chief financial officer. and i don't want to basically put his name out there but the

former undersecretary of treasury who is thousand the deputy secretary of the cia is probably someone who had a very close eye on him because of the financial support that he abu sayyaf was able to provide through this underground railroad of oil supplies and embedmentem embezzlement that he was able to orchestrate to fund isis. sdwr so >> so what does the u.s. hope to gain? this man was killed. i know that was not the intent. it was supposed to be a snatch and grab, but there was literally hand to hand combat and he was killed in the process spoken what do they think they can get? >> well, most importantly is that the united states and frankly the administration the president, deserve a lot of credit for this as well as special operations forces. because for all intents and purposes this is one more

example of another isis commander being knocked off or taken. we sometimes forget how effective we have been in the last couple of months in picking off isis leaders around the area. now, what is unique here is that we hope to gain a significant amount of ibntel on thebaghdadi, the leader. and number two the command and control structure of who is running isis and where they may be. and number three, who are the compatriots that provide the financial support in the banking sector that the united states wants to choke off in order to choke what essentially is isis ability to continue to fund itself. >> so you think that abu sayyaf's death weakens the organization in a substantial way? >> there is no doubt that based on the limited reports we'ring a to have again because he was really unknown a tunisian unknown in the hoork arcierarchy of

the structure, his disappearance will have a significant impact on the ability of the organization to operate. but like any operation, there is always a deputy cfo who will probably operate it under nooed him, will probably now be appointed to take his place. and we have to understand isis' command and control structure has provided a sufficient number of deputies because there are a significant number of them who have been able to replace them which is why we're still seeing isis have the command and control structure that it still has. >> how significant is it that u.s. forces went into syria to do this raid? >> well, we don't know yet where they actually planned their operation from, whether from iraq or from turkey or from some other country. it is not unusual, we have seen this happen before, we have seen the united states try to in effect rescue hostages that were held in eastern syria. we have seechb seen the united states move into provide support

in the battle of company ban nikobani. we had very good intel and enough for the president to make the decision to put the special operations command forces in harm's way and congratulations to them. >> okay. mark gipsnsburg, thank you so much. coming up, i'll be speaking about the u.s. flad to syria with jim hines. but let's go now to the new development in the fatal amtrak train derailment in philadelphia. the fbi has been brought into analyze damage to the wind shield after report it is might have been hit with an unknown object. the ntsb says they to spoke with the engineer and described him as cooperative and that he couldn't remember the accident. >> he recalls ringing the train bell as he went through the authority philadelphia station. that's not a normal station stop for him, but he's required by regulations to sound his bell.

i may have said horn. he's priored to sound his ed torequired to sound his bell as he goed past a station stop. and he did that. he recalled doing that. but he has no recollection of anything past that. >> joining me now from philadelphia's amtrak station, adam reese. what more do you know that you can tell us about the ntsb's interview with the engineer brandon bostian? >> reporter: they tell us he's been very cooperative offering up more support. all he remembers as you heard ringing his bell as he passed through the north philadelphia train station. he wasn't fatigued he wasn't ill. this was a regular route for him from new york to d.c. and bag.ck. did he it five days a week. he just doesn't remember the accident. just before the crash, an assistant conductor heard over her radio a conversation between bostian and an engineer on a septa train a local metro train on a parallel track. he tells bostian i was just hit

by a projectile and bostian replies i was hit, too. now, nbc you news has also spoken to a passenger on a acela train who claims he was hit by a projectile projectile, too.ou news has also spoken to a passenger on a acela train who claims he was hit by a projectile, too.u news has also spoken to a passenger on a acela train who claims he was hit by a projectile, too. news has also spoken to a passenger on a acela train who claims he was hit by a projectile, too.news has also spoken to a passenger on a acela train who claims he was hit by a projectile, too. clearly a pattern. >> bostian hit by something, too, he doesn't remember saying that, is that where there is a time lapse? >> reporter: he doesn't remember anything about the departments. he just remembers ringing the bell. it's possible he was injured by the projectile because he did suffer injuries. we don't know if that's from a projectile or from when the engine car flipped over. >> i believe he had 14 stitches this his head and more there to his leg. really busted up his knee. i hoe you had a chance to speak to some of the amtrak riders. what are they saying? >> reporter: some going weather, going south, they're not really concerned. he they understand this is a regular occurrence. -will-not a regular occurrence. >> adam reese thank you.

>> pay extra attention to safety. i'm used to traveling on the rains in london, too. >> nervous at first. but i'm note really worried about it. i'm very sad about what happened. >> i'm not concerned. i think this was not a normal incident. i live up in wednesday cherster where the other crash happened. >> reporter: they won't make any preliminary conclusion. they will reassemble the train and inspect it. full service by tuesday. nore signs of damage in your home. are you sure you're not ignoring them in your body? even if you're treating your crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis an occasional

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moore now on the fatal amtrak derailment. the fooikbi has been called in and the ntsb spoke with the engineer and officials say bostian was cooperative but couldn't remember anything of the accident. fritz edler is an officer of the brotherhood of locomotive engineers and train men. i know you've operated this same type of engineer that was involved in the tuesday derail the. what does it take to control the speed and how quickly you can make an adjustment? >> let me start by saying first of all that i do not -- i cannot speak representing the brotherhood of locomotive and train men. i speak from my own experience working in this territory operating this kind of equipment, these kinds of

situations. so i can speak to that. i do not represent the blet. >> so the control and speed of the engine, i mean how do you do that and how easily can you adjust it? >> it's pretty easy to adjust. in order to run high speed rail service, it is necessary to have equipment unlike freight for example where the emphasis is on moving very very, very heavy weights, but not necessarily fast, passenger high speed rail you need to move much more quickly, accelerate much more quickly, top much more quickly. and that's how the equipment is designed. soed in so in order to keep a schedule that would be one that people would want to have we have powerful locomotives that will bring up the -- accelerate up to the top speed quickly and good braking so that we can bring it down. >> so this makes sense from a physics, momentum standpoint

here. but how does that actually happen? is it a dial is it a lever? tell me how that happens. >> my co-workers, the crews that are doing this kind of work, are highly qualified. they are qualified in many cases on as many as maybe 10 different kinds of locomotives. and each of them may have slightly different controls. but in general, those controls will consist of a throttle, and a brake for the locomotive itself, and another brake that operates throughout the entire train. so when you go in, you may operate one or another of these and they may have absolutely different controls. but this one was a new sprinter locomotive your left hand would be operating a throttle, your right hand would be operating the brakes.

>> okay. you know this stretch of track really well. i understand there was a 50 miles per hour speed limit. could a train that train 188 given the number of cars, speed at which it was traveling could it have safely made it around the bends, was that even a possibility? >> what the 50-mile-an-hour speed was what we call a permanent restriction meaning that the radius and the various other features of the track, there is a formula that the track engineers use. and they factor in a safety factor. >> so 106 miles an hour was that impossible? did it never have a chance of surviving? >> well, that's not my area of expertise. but i would say it's 106 miles an hour is probably not possible. >> can i ask you about the ntsb reports investigating that something may have hit the wind

windshield windshield? if you're an enter in that particular part of the car and something hits your wind shield, how distracting can that be? >> well, it can be terrifying especially as you can imagine if it comes out of nowhere. now, i can tell you this having your windshield struck is not really unusual event unfortunately. in the course of 227 miles in each direction, you know, lots of things may-of -- everything from birds to something that might be thrown or something may hit the windshield. but if it's let's say an example, and i have no idea if that was the case a rock or brick was thrown and that hit it would certainly be a very startling event. >> and can i ask how would the engineer then have gotten the train up to that particular

speed and you get something is that start elhe willles you, if you're startled moment tearily is that enough to cause an accident like this or does it have to be a disastrous kind of startling?that enough to cause an accident like this or does it have to be a disastrous kind of startling? sgl let's me walk you through this. that track in the area we're describing, normally for that kind of equipment, would require acceleration from 60 miles an hour through north philadelphia there is a 65-mile-an-hour curve, and then the track speed goes up to 80. and if you're running track speed, which is what a professional engineer would try to do in order to keep the schedule, that would mean acceleration. so the throttle would be open, train accelerating to bring it up to 80 miles an hour. obviously if it is true that ultimate speed was at 106, there was a point there in that track

where what normally would have happened, which would have been taking the tlogts off and putting the brake on didn't happen. so that's the big question. it's not a strange thing that the train would be accelerating. it should have been accelerating up to 80 miles an hour. but then the brakes had to be put on and so the big question is what caused that, could it have happened as a result of something striking. it's possible. the investigation is still at an early stage. we'll be looking to see you know, what they discover. >> fritz edler i appreciate it. thanks. mitt romney has given up the world of politics for prize fighting. and he's fighting a boxer and reporter. if you don't think seize the trip when you think aarp then you don't know "aarp". get inspired with aarp travel. plan and book your trip online

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it's mitt romney like you've never seen him before hitting the boxes ring for a match against holyfield. the two squaring off in salt lake city to raise money for charity. kasie hunt was there and she joins me with the highlights. >> reporter: will, mitt romney likes to say that politics ain't bean bag. and last night he told me real boxing spts either. but that's not quite what we saw last night when he stepped in to the ring with evander holyfield. >> ladies and gentlemen, introducing mitt the glove romney! >> reporter: on friday night in salt lake -- ♪ once called bird legs now the glove. stripping down to take on evander the real deal holyfield. five time heavyweight champ. one piece of advice for governor romney tonight? >> keep your hands up.

>> reporter: romney scam blink around the ring. holding his own. >> down goes holyfield. >> reporter: but in the end, losing again. >> holyfield rushing over to romney. and the white glove has been thrown in. your winner, evander real deal holyfield! >> as you can tell, i'm not a boxer. don't laugh so hard. come on. >> reporter: to keep it at least a little bit fair, holyfield did it give mitt some pointers that he and wife ann were happy to show of. >> i'd like you to show me some of your new moves. >> we've been waiting a long time to do this. >> that's exactly right. >> so what do i do here? >> put them up and now and then you tag your forehd just to remind yourself that you keep your gloves up. because if you're punching, you

don't -- >> reporter: in the ring all for a good cause, curing blindness around the world. >> what we raised tonight, a million dollars, will provide surgeries for 40,000 people and that will be done in one full year. so it's quite an accomplishment tonight. >> reporter: that organization charity vision run by his son, josh, the real beneficiary of all of this spectacle. but romney did spend time jabbing on the political front taking a shot at hillary clinton over her e-mail servers and the "new york times" saying they hit below the belt even though evander holyfield doesn't. >> i'm on team kasie this this case. thank you very much. in the overnight raid in syria a watershed momentarily some i'll ask a member of the permanent select committee on intelligence. and it's a deadly mystery not too far from the vice president's home in washington. why do police call this burned out house a murder scene. if motor trend's 2015 car of the year. so was the 8 and the 45 highway mpg tdi clean diesel.

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. welcome back. not too far from where vice president joe biden lives is the scene of a deadly mystery. investigators say the fire that tore through this multimillion dollar home this week was an act of arson that killed four family members. joining me now kristen welker. what see's the latest? >> reporter: this is an incredible tragedy you can a mystery that has devastated a washington, d.c. community. authorities are calling this a homicide notice. now. stunning revolution as the investigation deepens.notice. now. stunning revolution as the investigation deepens. investigators combed the scene a day after the fire ravaged the home of the family that lived here four bodies discovered. the man and his wife and the other two victims their son phillip and their house keeper.

>> this was an intentionally set fire and arson. >> reporter: at a news conference, the police chief announced the victims were attacked before they died. >> we can say that there were at least on three of the four victims there were injuries discovered. appeared to be blunt force or sharp object injuries. >> reporter: investigators canvassed the neighborhood and interviewed witnesses. they also found the family's burned out blue porsche about ten miles from their home. the car was in additionitially seen thursday morning before the fire started. >>ic law ic think law enforcement will be looking at every type of surveillance camera they can. the car has been recovered. the fire is who drove it. >> reporter: he was a corporate ce off the and amy active in the local community often engaged in fundraising. till lip attended a school located on the grounds of the national cathedral where they

held prayer services friday. a community in mourning. >> the community where they lived really loves them and we're here to support them if they need us. >> reporter: the family also has two older daughters who were able at boarding school. so far no suspects have been identified or arrested. >> i think one of those daughters is graduating next week. what a tragedy. thank you so much. >> a couple in kentucky is fighting to regain custody of their ten children after authorities took them away. the family is living off the grid in this home you see with no electricity, nor running water. but they say the children are happy and healthy. >> authorities call this a make shift shed. the parents call it home. they chose to live this way.

>> we have so many friends who don't see their kids that they have to work all day it pay for things that i don't think we need. so we said what is the bare minimum we need to survive. >> but they have a facebook plug dedicated to living a simple back to basics life. but some call it too basic especially for children. they have ten of them. and nicole is carrying number 11. >> they delivered a baby last winter and it was about 30 degrees below zero. and it's not living conditions for a kid. >> reporter: last week authorities went to investigate but nicole wouldn't let them look around or talk to the kids without a lawyer. the situation escalated. nicole recorded audio. >> ma'am sit down. >> you cannot kidnap my son. you want to shoot mes you shoot the me, but you will not kidnap my son. >> ma'am, you need to sit down in that car. >> reporter: nicole was arrested for allegedly resisting arrest and disorderly conduct. the children were taken and placed with foster families.

because of privacy laws the kentucky office of health and family services says it can't comment or even confirm an investigation. this dispute comes just months after a maryland couple that headlines for letting their 10 and 6-year-old children washington to a park a mile from home alone. the kids were picked up by police and later returned. on "today," their money defended what they call free range parenting. >> we're amazed that this has become a national conversation because we're just doing what our parents did, what was considered perfectly normal just one generation ago. >> reporter: back in kentucky there is a custody hearing on monday. >> my parents style may not be what yours are, but it doesn't mean that they're wrong, just different. >> our thanks to chris cado for that report. joining me now, gordon has been following this story. no running water no electric fridayity, how ity how are they getting other basic

necessities? >> they're kind of living off the land. some of their neighbors have in fact complained, said that they pretty much decimated the deer population around that area for food. we do know they go to the grocery, get some of their staples that way. we understand that they also grow some of their vegetables on property. but it's kind of hard to tell exactly what off the grid means when you talk about what they're doing because as we pointed out there is no running water, they have a generator that provides their electric power, what they have. but they also have a very sophisticated social media network. some of the pictures you saw even have blessed little homestead which is kind of the branding for not only what they call their lifestyle, but what will be a dog grooming business sha that she plans to open up. >> what about schooling. do the kids go to school?

>> it's hard to define exactly what their schooling is. kentucky would not necessarily consider this home schooling. kentucky you're essentially only required to provide some form of education between i think as 6 and 16. you're not required to provide lesson plans or anything of that nature. but what you are required to do is to tell the local school district and the state that you indeed are providing for your education of your children yourself. we've not been able to determine that they have done that. some have call what haded what they call home schooling some home schooling trying to distance themselves from them because they say this is senatorsis unschool or almost no schooling. if a child is interested in something, you make a lesson around that. whether raising goats or produce or just play. >> and i'm also reading about

joe's oldest son, alex a 19-year-old. he's not sympathetic to what is happening with the family. he says that he was taken away from home when he was four years old. do we know what his beef is? >> there have been some allegations of abuse on the part of his father that we have been trying to corroborate, but again you're also dealing with a situation where because at the time he would have been a minor trying to get records on that particular aspect of this investigation, pretty tough, too. >> how about fundraising efforts to try to help the family. >> there have been a couple of them. one of which began even before the incident in which the children were taken. she had been using both online and conventional fund raising means to get money for this dog grooming business. in fact one of her friends who is part of that fundraisingaeneen an unofficial

spokesperson for the family. other efforts have started after that either to help pay legal expenses for the criminal charges, in joe eye case he face as menacing charge, in her case charges of resisting assist and disorderedly conduct. so there's different fundraising efforts. >> quite a story. thank you so much for bringing it to us. appreciate it. the u.s. raid into syria, why is it so significant in the fight against isis? i'll speak with a member of the house permanent select committee on intelligence in a momentarily.

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it was a revolutionary era now con kron chronicled in the new book days of rage. joining me, the author. brian, 40 years later, patty hurst is showing dogs. big ayers is a political talking point. but back then, there was real fear and violence in this country. how bad was it? >> well bombings were a daily occurrence in the 1970s. it's so difficult for us to remember this in large part i think because so few of them unlike 9/11 so few of them resulted in death or serious injury by less than 1% in fact. by and large bombs functioned as exploding press releases that radical groups used to make the media pay attention to their message. >> so how would you then define the people in those group like the sla and weather underground? were they terrorists or activists?

>> the people were largely protestors from the 1960s who when that decade ended were really unwilling to give up on the dreams of change, of ending the war, of improving the lives of african-americans. and at the dawn of the 1970s believed in their hearts that a revolution was coming and that the best way to bring that on in america was to resort to political violence. >> but how did this turn violent? was it fringe elements a natural evolution? >> it was a natural evolution in their minds for when nonviolence didn't work. initially they were the cream of the protest member. the protest movement. the first to go underground, the weather underground, had been the leadership of the dominant white protest group the students for democratic society. as the decade wore on however, you did find that i think you would call many of those who went underground fringe militants. >> the person most americans

connect with is patty hurst. what is your read on her real involvement and the motivations? >> my read on her involvement was that she was a 19 ymd girl who was violently kidnapped there her home where she lived with her fiance. stuffed in to a closet. and raped repeatedly over a period of weeks. i tend to believe what she's always said that shalle would is done just about anything in that traumatized state the to remain alive. >> so brainwashing seems like naturally what happened to her? >> it's a hoity-toity term for the trauma, but, sure i'd agree with that. >> and this picture, this is the one that i think is rather icon ebb, the one we saw with her with the about a ray and it looks like a machine gun of shorts. when you see it time and time again, patty hurst. do you see a modern day group that compares to the sla or to

anything that was going on back then in the 70s kate'70s? >> no not in the united states. this era of revolutionary violence thankfully has largely passed in the u.s. you can certainly draw similarities to some of the middle eastern groups or any group that results to these tactics. at some level like so many of these groups in the 70s date'70s they all become political cults. >> and how did the country react? was the legitimate fear or was it isolated? >> by and large the country yawned. with the notable exception of the times that these groups did launch attacks that killed numbers of people, by and large america because so much of the violence happened in the new york area and bay area, america yawned. my favorite quote might be the woman interviewed in 1977 after a bombing attack and her quote was, oh, another bombing? which group is this time? >> in the end did these groups

make any lasting impact on the country? >> no. i came to believe that their political legacy was minimal. if it existed at all. they launched a kind of war in america and they lost. the legacy that we live with today of theirs is bomb sniffing dogs, security and metal detectors, all which have began in the early 1970s as a direct result of these attacks. >> okay. the book is days of rage brian, thank you so much for the conversation. appreciate it. good luck. >> thanks. taking the fight to isis leads u.s. forces in to syria. is this a major shift in strategy? that's next.

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more on the new developments in the fight against isis. new commandos launch a rare overnight raid in eastern syria killing the isis commander in chashlg of oilfields. defense secretary ash carter identified the isis militant as abu sayaf and said no u.s. forces were killed or injured. his wife was captured during the raid, and officials say as many

as a dozen other isis members who served as local security personnel were killed. let me bring you democratic congressman jim -- always good to see you. especially on this developing story here. can you put this into perspective for us? how significant do you think it is the death of this isis leader? >> well, i think it's pretty significant, alex. you know, it's no coincidence this was the guy and most people have not heard of the guy, but that this is the guy that they decided take the risk to actually try to capture and, of course, to actually put books booths on the ground, which, of course, is a very risky business because this guy was the cfo if you will of isis. he was the guy who sort of connected everybody and who made the money flow and so as satisfying as it is to see a very senior isis leader killed as he was in this instance, what is going to be really valuable to the wraits and the allies who were fighting isis is the laptops, phones, the information

that was captured. >> did you get knit background on this or know this was coming? >> we did not. we will be fully briefed. of course, we went out of session on friday before this raid actually was under taken and it would not be unusual, of course, for the president to alert the leadership of the congress, but those of us who are not in the leadership, who are simply on that committee we will be briefed next week. >> can you put that into context? we're talking syria a snatch and grab. this was something highlighted earlier on the broadcast that had it been just to take out abu sayaf and anybody who might be with him, they could have used a drone to do that. they, instead, as you say, put boots on the ground. >> yeah, that's right. there's a couple of things worth noting. remember, in addition to killing abu sayaf and gathering the intelligence, they also captured his wife. she may -- if she had an operational role she may be a

terrific source of intelligence. they freed one girl that was being held as a slave. not only is it better to gather the intelligence, but, of course, if they had, you know, simply dropped a bomb on this complex, there would have been that young girl and perhaps other innocent people lost. where he of course, this is a profoundly high risk venture because whenever you put troops on the ground or frankly when you don't put troops on the ground, pilots can get shot down, as, unfortunately, we saw in the horrific case of the jordanian pilot. when you have troops on the ground, you have the possibly that one of them may be captured. heaven forbid none of us want to live through that opportunity. the decision to go ahead here to gather the intelligence to try to capture some of these people turned out to be the right decision to make, but profoundly risky when you are putting people on the ground in hostile territory. >> what now happens to her? i know we're going to try to get information. where does she go and who will be doing the debriefing with her? >> it's unclear what her fate

will be. a lot of the answer to that question will live in whether she was, in fact, operationally active with isis. at this time the u.s. intelligence community is probably selling quite a bit of time trying to learn what she knows and ultimately a decision will be taken. if she's utterly innocent, which i don't think is the case that will be a very different scenario than if she hand operational role and helped support the terrorists in which case she is likely to be prosecuted. >> allegations though, are that she's involved in human trafficking, and there was a member of the national security council who has said they're trying to mine her for information. they hope to get something on others that may have been kidnapped, and that would include u.s. citizens. are you hopeful that is the case, and is there any reason to believe that is knowledge? >> it's certainly possible. we won't know for a little while.

again, he -- you know, if you want to understand an organization, that's where the money flows, and he was in charge of that. he is also known as the sheikh of energy. isis trying to make a lot of money through selling oil. this is a -- while he might not have been at the point of the spear, he is the guy who the intelligence we get and, of course debriefing his wife if she knows stuff that this is going to be a real problem for isis. >> i'm going to ask you this. we need about a 30-second answer, sir, switching gears to the train derailment and the irony of the house republican led house cut about a quarter billion dollars to amtrak funding the day after this disastrous accident. that line there because positive train control was not in effect. look, this is a question of absolute safety of the people who ride these rails, and i ride them every week back and forth to washington d.c.

>> representative jim, always a pleasure. that's going to be a perfect wrap timing-wise. see you again. see all of you back here tomorrow at noon eastern. (mom) when our little girl was born we got a subaru. it's where she said her first word. (little girl) no! saw her first day of school. (little girl) bye bye! made a best friend forever. the back seat of my subaru is where she grew up. what?

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