forces raid into syria that killed an ice isz commander. just how big a blow is this to the terror group? also, the amtrak crash. >> i thought i was a goner. i think most of us did. i think just so violent. >> does this tragedy end up sparking a bigger debate on rebuilding america? plus jeb bush's terrible horrible, no good very bad week on iraq. >> would you have authorized the invasion? >> i would have. and so would have hillary clinton. >> how his brother's past is haunting jeb's future. and republican candidates suddenly all opposed to the iraq war. leading that charge, rand paul. he joins us exclusively. finally float like a bee

and sting like a butterfly? mitt romney's fascinating charity fight with evander holyfield. i'm chuck todd and joining me for insight and analysis this sunday morning are former senior adviser to president obama, david axle rod, former white house political director sarah fagan, alain cooper of the new york times and columnist and author tom friedman. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." from nbc news in washington this is "meet the press," with chuck todd. good sunday morning, battle is raging right now for the iraqi city of ramadi capital of that country's biggest province between iraqi government troops and isis as the terror group continues to make advances despite 11 months of u.s.-led air strikes. but this weed the u.s. has been heralding a blow against isis announcing a killing of an isis commander and the capture of his

wife in a special force mission in eastern syria. our chief foreign correspondent richard engle has been assessing the significance of this raid into syria. >> reporter: isis has gotten used to fighting u.s. troops when attack from the air. for months washington wash has led an air war against isis in iraq and syria. but that was different, a bold raid into syria into an isis stronghold with u.s. boots on the ground. u.s. officials say american delta force commandos took off from northern iraq in blackhawk helicopters and osprey helicopters like these, and flew deep into isis tair territory in search and rescue why, it was friday evening syrian time. no allies on the ground. if u.s. forces were captured they risked unthinkable horror. a jordanian pilot captured by isis was burned alive in a cage.

a top isis money man what managed isis's oil and gas income and was personal close to the isis leader al-baghdadi was the target. >> the fact that the u.s. was ready to mound a capture mission to grab him shows he was a really important person in the infrastructure itself. >> reporter: the tart did not go quietly. there was a gun fight. even hand to hand fighting. he was killed along with a dozen or more isis fighters. >> you can kill isis fighters, but if you take out the money it condenses the organization's capability to do things. >> reporter: the u.s. commandos went under fire but were unharmed and took the man's wife. it's alleged she helped manage prisoners taken by isis. it was a bold and risky operation, and could yield intelligence, but it is unlikely

to change the course of the war on isis. this week the group attacked the center of the iraqi city of ramadi with car bombs and took control of a government compound. isis is also fighting its way into the historic syrian city of palmera, threatening to destroy it the way it has razed other historic treasures. this week it was washington that took the initiative going into the isis heard lnd and making it out alive. >> joining me now live is richard engle. richard how significant was the mission and can you say it was fully successful if we didn't get them alive. >> a lot of countertirm official have never heard of that man. i had never heard of him before. one described him as al capone's accountant. he is significant, has a lot of information, no doubt, but he will be replaced. i think the most significant thing here was the symbolism that u.s. special operation forces went into the isis

heardland, grabbed someone, his wife killed other militants on the ground, and left successfully. it is a psychological blow or an attempted psychological blow against isis. thank that's probably one of the most important missions here. was it a complete success? they wanted to get him alive. they got his wife. but i think the idea of rattling isis by going into their heartland, that was successful. >> is it fair to say this was almost like a test case for u.s. intelligence almost testing they are now getting better intelligence in syria about isis. so they acted on this it's successful to this means suck selfbegets and we will see more raids because they now trust their syrian intelligence? >> maybe. once you put your toe into the water there might be a temptation to put another toe in or the foot in. this is only the second time u.s. special operation forces

went into syria. the first time was a rescue attempt to rescue hostages that turned out to be a dry whole. nobody was there, the hostages were moved. this time a snatch and grab operation. but the white house want to be very careful about ordering up lots of these. imagine what had happened if it had gone wrong if one of those helicopters had been shot down. terrible consequences for the commandos who were involved but also terrible political consequences. >> for sure. richard engle reporting for us. thanks very much. we'll turn now to the latest on the investigation of the amtrak train that crashed in philadelphia killing eight and injuries other. there is an investigation into whether or not it was hit by a project tile before the crash. >> i've seen it reported that the fbi is investigating. that's a misnomer. we are investigating the accident. we have asked the fbi to come in

and provide technical expertise to help us resolve and figure out what was the particular damage pattern on one of the windshield. but we are investigating it at this point. and we've just asked them to come in and help us out on identifying that fracture pattern. >> tom costello is outside the 30th street station in philadelphia. tom, it does seem as if ntsb is trying to tap the brakes on this growing story that maybe some outside sbitd or force caused this accident. >> reporter: here's why they are concerned about this. they had a septa regional train hit by something. the engineer thought he had been shot ought. we had another train hit by something, a brick or something. and potentially in amtrak train 188 hit by something potentially on the windshield. nobody knows the answer to this right now because the engineer says he doesn't remember. but the question is is it possible that when that brick or whatever it was hit the front of am track 188 if that's in fact what happened that it rattled this engineer that he lost

situational awareness, that he forgot he was supposed to start slowing down because the train at that point was speeding up. keep in mind this engineer had only been on that stretch of these tracks for three week. that's it. and by the way, they have been having problems with rock throwers on this stretch of amtrak track for 40 years. teddy roosevelt's train was hit in 1905. i can assistance also tell you the federal railroad administration has ordered emergency steps for amtrak to take. they have to put on more speed limit signs. they have to add automatic braking. amtrak says it's doing all of the above. >> tom, thanks very much. i'm joined by senator booker of new jersey. welcome back to "meet the press." >> good to be here. >> i want to start with the isis raid and turn to infrastructure which is what you were have been focused on all this week with the derail men.

what do you feel about the raid? kufl it was a success from what you understand of it now. and that b the campaign against isis is so far more successful than failure? >> certainly this raid looks like it was a success a. lot of the information we pulled out of there could be very value, the computers and other data that was recovered that's now being analyzed. this is going to be a long effort. isis is a terrible threat in that region as well as to american security. and we are going to be involved in a many-month if not longer effort. so we've seen some gains from the recruitment of foreign fighters going down and their territory. but then we see things like this week where we end up losing some ground. i'm encouraged by some of the progress we are making but we have a lot more work to do when it comes to eliminating this threat. let me move to the amtrak derailment. this week white house republicans have been criticizing white house democrats, for attempting to political size this derail men. do you think that's a fair critique?

>> i think it is a distract from the reality. united states of america is falling behind dramatically its global peers in terms of the quality of its infrastructure. we have trillions of dollars of an infrastructure debt right now and the accident which we saw happen which the ntsb says would have been prevented should we had positive train control -- we should not be scrimping on investments in public safety of but what it's even more important to understand this as china invests about 9% of their gdp in infrastructure, america is only doing 1.5%. by withholding this investment in what america used to dominate the globe in now out of the top 10 we are losing economic competitiveness. we are losing out on jobs missing out on growth. let's leave the partisan argument aside for a second and say the fiscally conservative thing to do right now, invest

whether it is a company in your physical plant, a homeowner, your roof. as a nation we have fallen out of pace to where we were in previous years in terms of investment. >> do you think the lack of infrastructure spending is to blame for this accident? >> i think the lack of infrastructure spending is costing us lives in america. it's costing every commuter -- in my region especially you see commuters paying over $1,000 a year in terms of damage to their cars costing us our roads and our jobs. the safety of our roads and bridges we know unequivocally -- months i have been working on this issue, our track, aviation roads and bridge is inadequate. we should be investing more. it's uneviv call unassailable and for us not to do that in a bipartisan fashion is unacceptable to me. >> let me put up a couple of graphics here that sort maybe

why it's politically so hard to get support for amtrak on capitol hill. ridership by kong district in 2014. look at this -- in democratic congressional districts versus republican congressional district in use in items of ridership on amtrak. then if you look at the 25 busiest amtrak stations in 2013 almost all of them concentrated on the two coasts frankly, democratic, very blue and you are strung lincoln winning over democratic support. amtrak isn't thought of as a feasible part of transportation in the middle of the country where there is much more republican representation. is that a challenge for amtrak? >> in a practical political way very likely. but i tell you this i'm a pro-growth guy. we know in the northeast corridor, one-fifth of the economic growth that growth and the fueling of our gdp doesn't just go to republicans or democrats, it benefits this country as a whole.

so in my negotiations over the past few months with people like roger wicker and others on the senate side we are seeing some movement in the idea that we must invest in this precious asset that creates so many jobs so mitch economic dynamicism it is a political fight, yes, but those folks that are fiscally conservative -- where in the world -- every wall street investor, for every dollar you invest in the northeast corridor and passenger rail you get two dollars back in growth and equity, every investor will take that. if we are caretakers of the great infrastructure we have inherited from our grandparents we don't want to pass it on to our children as a debt. >> before i let you go when you were running for the senate no in 2013 you said this you know how to be a disruptive force in washington. washington on day one i'll be al qaeda able to have an impact that the freshman senator

usually won't have. a year later you were asked this question, what is booker afraid of? this paradox has puzzled many since he arrived in the capitol lastee after a special election. how he could use his star power to do anything yet he is acting a conventional paul are you bog do conventional? >> the reality is the short time i've been in the senate i've been able to join together -- the majority of my legislation has been in a by part tan san issue working on an issue that may not be popular or capturing the attention of a columnist. we are talking about the overincarceration problem. 5% of the globe's population 25% of the globe's prison population. now working with everybody from rand paul to ted cruz to mike lee we have started forming bipartisan movement in this country to correct a greivous injustice. i'm going to continue work on both sides of the aisle on

pragmatic issues. to pry to push our country forward because we are being devastated in my opinion by too much partisan talk. >> easier to be disruptive as a marathon as a senator? are you finding that out? >> i disagree. i think in both areas there is different types of work that are necessary. in washington while i'm not going to be necessarily doing the same kind of work -- it's a different job. but in washington there is a huge space for which we can work together, find commonalities and moves things forward. that is the kind of disruption we need. i'm happy to see both sides seeing more and more an optimistic conclusion. >> thanks for coming on meet the pass. let me bring in the panel. i want to go to isis first. then we'll go to infrastructure. you wrote the lead story for the new york times this morning. first of all, how confident are you in the government's storyline here? >> i think there is certainly a lot that we don't know.

the initial reporting in all these sorts of cases is always very incomplete. there is a lot that we dope know. for instance one of the questions i was most fascinated by because i was talking to military officials yesterday when they said that these guys were using women and children as human shields. and they had freed a slave. how did she differentiate herself from the women and children they were using as shields was she tied up? did she go running to them? there is so much we reason is found out. i think it's still a ferry significant operation because let's face it war -- a lot of wars about the war of public opinion and propaganda and it looks good for the united states to be able to say that we send in highly trained delta force commandos in there, they snatched one of these guys, killed him, took his wife, she could -- the laptop that they seized could yield a lot of

intelligence. from a public relations angle, i think this is not a bad deal. >> tom, do you think we could have done this without assad acquiesceing to some sort? >> i don't think he has much control there at all. up in that area. that's the first thing i'd say. the second thing, i agree with helloine that obviously you take down a key financial guy like this that's a good. you rattle them. we now have clearly penetrated them. that's going to require them to obviously deploy protection. i've been covering theis raleigh post. i can't tell you how many times israel killed the number two man in hamas. >> never want to be number two. >> that's right. there is always another number two. the only way to defeat isis is on the ground door to door and getting other sunnis to do that. the fact that in the same week isis took a major urban area

ramadi is not a small town tells you that's where the war will be decided. david, do you believe your party should be trying to take political advantage. >> i agree with corey booker in a the lack of investment in infrastructure generally has been scandalous particularly in an era of low interest rates. the fact we reason is taken advantage of that is scandalous. but i think americans get fed up when they see -- i mean before the bodies are even removed from the crash people are rushing to blame each other for it and they are looking for our folks to fine out what happened and address it. and so no i don't think it was the right thing to do to leap in there and politicize this thing. >> but at the same time republicans are probably now going to have to be more open to amtrak funding? >> perhaps. but i do -- democrats have been smaim shameful this week on this. if amtrak was a corporation you would fire the ceo and replace the board. the reality is it loses money

every year. the reason it loses money is because it face to prioritize. these needs. you could argue along the west coast but much of amtrak is spread around the country and there is nobody riding it. >> tom, you spend lot of time on this issue. should amtrak be run as a for-profit enterprise or should it be the way every other public transportation system this the country is run, with a government subsidy. >> i'm for the subsidyf as long as the money is spent efficiently. china has 2.5 million people a day on high-speed rail. everybody in this country knows when you fly from hong kong to lax it's like flying from the jetson's to the flintstone. and at penn station, if you have taken the elevator there up from the track it's like it was invented before suit case. it can fit one narrow body. >> they do close the second

elevator door gate. right? >> it is a travesty. we should be discussing it without this kind of tragedy. it should be a top priority. >> i will pause there. thank you all. we'll be back. we have more to discuss including more on iraq but in political terms. coming up my interview with republican presidential candidate rand paul. but first, why did jeb bush need five takes to answer the question he knew was coming if you knew then what you know nowcision w if you have play dates at your house. be ready to clean up the mess. the kids have fun, but it's pretty gross. (doorbell) what's that? it's a swiffer wetjet. i can just grab this and just go right to the mess. that comes from my floor? now that's disgusting. i want friends over! you want friends over? you wouldn't do half of your daily routine. so why treat your mouth any differently. brushing alone does less than half the job leaving behind millions of germs. complete the job with listerine®.

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as you know, a saturday doesn't go by without republican hopefuls gathering somewhere. yesterday, they gathered in des moines, iowa at the lincoln dinner. 11 hopeful republicans were there. again, they focused on foreign policy, not social issue. here is a sampling. >> if i'm president of the united states, and you are thinking about joining al qaeda or isil anybody thinking about that? i'm not going to call the judge, i'm going to call a drone and we will kill you. >> i got news for you, mr. president, we need a commander in chief that calls it what it is. >> if you know me as george a barbara's boy for what i'm proud, w. is my brother. i'm proud of that too. whether people like that or not, they have to get used to it.

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welcome back. it's possible months from now jeb bush announced his candidacy. we'll look back at this dreadful week for him and say, remember when we thought that was relevant? for now it is relevant. he's answering a lot of questions about his inability to answer a simple one, were we right to invade in iraq. >> arriving for the second visit this year jeb bush was trying to put a bruising week behind him. >> if you are looking for a perfect candidate he probably existed 2,000 years ago. >> hoping to launch a campaign

focused on the future, jeb bush was stuck reminding voters he's a throwback to the past, bundling an obvious question over four days. monday answer one. >> on the subject of iraq obviously controversial. knowing what we know now, would you have authorized the invasion? >> i would have. so would hillary clinton just to remind everybody. so would everybody with the intelligence they got. >> he went on conservative radio to do clean up saying he misinterpreted the question. tuesday answer two. >> in 20/20 hindsight you would have made a different decision. >> that's hypothetical. >> that didn't work. the answers kept coming. >> going back in time and talking what would have or could have happened. of course given the power of looking back and having that, of course anybody would have made a

different decision. there's no denying that. >> finally, the full retraction, thursday, with answer number five. >> we are all supposed to answer hypothetical questions know whag you know now, what would you have done? i would not have engaged or gone into iraq. >> bush is slammed by conservatives. >> you can't think going into iraq now was the right thing to do. >> lampooned by late night. >> be honest and say it's weird to talk about it because george is your bro. >> 2016 rivals -- >> there's no way we would have gone to war with iraq. >> if we knew then what we know now and i was the president of the united states, i wouldn't have gone to war. >> his brother said in his own book he would have done something different. i don't know how that was a hard question. >> reminding voters of his last

name and lug around george w. bush's unpopular iraq baggage. let's bring back the panel. sara fagen, you handle this first. the impression i got from this was that jeb bush was not prepped for this question and didn't think about it and there wasn't a conversation with the senior advisers. how you going to answer that question? >> i don't think that's the case at all. if you look at his answer his final answer, he says exactly why this was a difficult question for him to answer. it was, when you are a commander in chief of the air national guard in your state which he was at the height of the iraq war and made many, many phone calls. it's hard to come back and say we should have done something differently. interestingly enough, mike huckabee had a similar answer. these other folks didn't deal with that. >> i get that. there is a different. david you must be having ptsd going back to '07 and '08. watching jeb bush deal with this

reminded me of hillary clinton on her vote on iraq. here is a montage of that. >> you refused, why? >> obviously, it was wrong to believe this president. using coercive diplomacy was not an unreasonable act. this was not a vote for pre-emptive war. >> it is absolutely unfair to say that the vote, as chuck hagel one of the architects of the resolution said was a vote for war. it was a sincere vote based on my assessment at the time and what i believed he would do with the authority given. >> all of that in 2008. by 2014, six year's later, in her book, "hard choices" she said this. i thought i acted in good faith and made the best decision i could with the information i had. i got it wrong plain and simple.

>> the thing i find bewildering is this was the most obvious question you could anticipate. i appreciate what you are saying. he certainly had a lot of time to think about what he wanted to say. he whiffed four times on a question he should have anticipated. we are eight months before anybody votes. we shouldn't do what we always do in this town and make every day election day. there's something that pushes this forward, which is not what you would have done, but what you learned. he has paul and the cheerleaders and arkchitects on his advisory should give people pause. that's something he should address. >> this elect is not going to be decided on iraq it's going to be decided on the world the candidates would take over as president, which is syria, that is a mess. isis on the rise and iran getting a nuclear weapon. >> hypotheticals matter.

>> all those things you mentioned are, you can argue direct results of the war in iraq. >> also president obama prematurely pulling out of iraq as well. >> tom, there's been debate here. what is the right question to be asking about iraq. you have other ideas. >> going forward, we decapitated iraq to a disastrous effect. we did libya, also. the syrian people decapitated their own government and the yemeni people decapitated theirs. the problem for the next president is going to be the fact that we are in a post imperial era. no one wants to go in control of it. we are in a post colonial period and a post athor tear yan era. unless they learn how to live

together this region is going to be a human development disaster area for the next president. >> what is the right question for the next president? >> basically i mean you heard lindsey graham say i'm going to drone them. good luck with that. frankly, i think we are at the cusp of an incredibly new problem. post imperial, post colonial. i haven't heard anybody who's got an answer for that one. >> can't buy diplomacy anymore. >> the thing we should think about iraq is, why didn't people ask the question what next. if you remove it barack obama said before the war, we are going to release sectarian strife. you have to think beyond the next step. what lessons have we learned? >> and with libya i'm going to pause it there. this question is coming up in my interview with republican rand

paul. first i want to tell you a surprising statistic this week. religious affiliation in this country is no religious affiliation at al

nerd screen time. this week it's about church and politics. hard to separate them these days. the rapid rise in increase in american who is say they are not

religious at all. this could be good news for democrats. the number of americans not affiliated with religion rose seven points from 2007 to 2014. these are self-described atheists and agnostics. they now make up a quarter of the population. that's about equal to the catholic population in this country. at the same time, the number of american who is identify with major religion, they have declined. the religious none category is second in self-identification after evangelicals. seven years ago, they ranked at the bottom of this list. why is this good news for democrats? the religious nones are young and liberal. median age of those affiliated with religion is rising, getting

older, 50. nonaffiliated 36 and prosperous. in 2012, the religious none voted overwhelmingly for president obama. another demographic change that is favoring the democrats. the country gets less religious, bad news for the republicans. let's talk about the nonwhites helping the democrats. here is another one. these religious nones. coming up my interview with sweet mother of softness... charmin!!! take a closer look at charmin ultra soft and you'll love what you see. not only can you use less, but you can actually see the softness in our comfort cushions. we all go. why not enjoy the go with charmin ultra soft? holy macaroni !! this little thingamajig

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welcome back. moments ago, we talked about jeb bush's challenging week. joining me now is a chief rival, senator rand paul of kentucky who has a brand-new book coming out, "taking a stand moving beyond partisan politics to unite america." we got a first look on it. we will talk to the senator about it. welcome back to "meet the press." >> thanks chuck. thanks for having me. >> let me start with the issue that got brought up with governor bush, the war on iraq. are you satisfied after his fourth answer on this saying he wouldn't have gone to the war in iraq knowing what we know now? are you satisfied he would not be going back to bush politics. >> i think it's an important question and i don't think it's an historical anecdote or a

hypothetical question. i think it's a recuring question in the middle east. is it a good idea to topple dictators and what happened when we do. when hussein was toppled we got chaos and still have it in iraq. we have radical rise to islam as well. the same ought to be fair to ask of hillary clinton if she ever takes questions. they should ask her, was it a good idea to invade libya? did it allow radical islam and isis to grow stronger? the war in iraq is a good question and a current question, but so is the question of should we have gone into libya. >> senator marco rubio asked the same question about iraq gave this answer. presidents don't have the benefit of hindsight and the fact of the matter is the world is a better place because saddam

hussein is not around. you kind of disagree with that. do you believe the world would be better if saddam hussein was the big man in iraq? >> that's not how i put it. we are at risk from people training and fighting in iraq than we were before. for example, isis is more of an aberration than hussein was. so you have this radical grand of jihad, a radical brand of islam that is strong and growing stronger because of the failed state that iraq is. the same thing going on in libya. this is a valid debate. we have to have this debate not only in the republican primary, but the general as to whether or not it's a good idea. is intervention always a good idea or does it lead to unintended consequences? >> you laid out in your book your foreign policy, a peace through strength of policy saying, you know what? intervention making a strong case against intervention that

intervention over the years is only served to create more problems than it was designed to stop. i guess, let me ask you this would you consider going after a country that was trying to put together a nuclear weapons program? that was the reason to go into iraq as far as george w. bush was concerned. that's a reason we might have to have military option with iran. is that a viable reason to go to war, to stop another country from starting a nuclear weapons program? >> we have to have the threat of military force behind diplomacy. i prefer diplomacy. i think with iran, we need to be steady and firm that they cannot have a nuclear weapons program. there has to be the threat of military force. my hope is that negotiations

continue. some in my party say i don't want negotiations, they are ready to be done with it. once you are done with negotiations, the choice is war or weapons. i don't want those two choices. >> you imply in your book, a fascinating quote comparing libya and iraq. the president obama is we've already sent the wrong message. the last time a leader gave up his desire for weapons of mass destruction we bombs and his country took him. you are referring to gadhafi. you are saying the iranians shouldn't trust them in those negotiations, are you not? >> i think it's a criticism of hillary clinton. she should have thought through the repercussions of the invasion and toppling of gadhafi. hillary clinton made the decision to do this with president obama's consent. now it send ass a signal to iran if

we are a good broker or negotiator with eliminating nuclear weapons. gadhafi did give up his nuclear ambition and was toppled anyway. it's an argument for not doing what we did in libya. >> let me move to the patriot act. it's unclear if it will get authorized at all before the memorial day reset. senator mcconnell talking about a two-month extension. you want to filibuster any extension. would you support a two-month extension? >> the court ruled that the collection of all phone records all the time is illegal. really, it ought to stop. if the president is obeying the law, he should stop immediately. i think we could get along with the constitution just fine. we did for over 200 years. you can catch terrorists. judges will grant warrants. if you look at the history of our country judges are very

much, it's not a difficult lift to get a warrant for most activities you want to investigate. the war should have someone's name on it. it shouldn't say verizon and collect all the customers. that's a general warrant. we want an individualized warrant. you are so critical of the nsa in your book i have to ask, would you eliminate it if you were president? >> no i would keep them before target towards our enemies. if you are not spending so much time on innocent americans, maybe could have have known one of the tsarnaev boys went back to chechnya. we interviewed him and still didn't know that. same with the resent jihadist from phoenix that traveled to

texas and the shooting in garland. we knew him. we investigated him and put him in jail. i want to spend more time on people we have suspicion of and probable cause on instead of innocent americans. >> one last question here. the idea that is in your book, per half happens the most intriguing idea. if you find the best teachers on a subject in the country the idea is we should have smaller classrooms, we should have a classroom of 1 million students, meaning the best calculus teacher ought to teach to anybody who wants to learn in america. the teacher on the ground implements the curriculum. it's an intriguing idea, but two pages later you say there shouldn't be a national curriculum. how is that not in contradiction of common core and naturalized teaching like you described? >> what i'm talking about is something truly extraordinary. one of the big leaps forward for

america is when everybody was open for education. there's still some people in america, particularly other countries trapped in poverty and don't have access. when the internet expands this access and someone in the recesses of the jungle can learn from the best calculus teacher on the planet, we are going to discover genius that allows progress and mankind to improve. i think it's going to be a huge leap for tech know logical progress by having larger classrooms that is counter intuitive. they will be virtual classrooms and extraordinarily cheap. i'm not saying it comes from government. it comes from the innovators you meet in silicon valley or the innovators you meet in austin, texas. i think that's where it comes from, not the government. >> not local control. >> i'm not advocating against something that is transmitted worldwide or international. i'm not arguing against any kind

of national communication or national testing. i took national tests when i was a kid. i'm arguing against centralized control in the body of one government. i'm arguing for something where someone in madagascar who is a genius in the street living in poverty and we never discover that genius is going to be connected to someone at harvard or m.i.t. or a great university and they are going to have that knowledge and awaken something in their mind that we haven't seen before. that's the beauty of the internet. we aren't quite there yet. people misconstrued that intelligence is going to come from smartphones. it's going to come from connecting intelligent people to intelligent people. there's extraordinary possibility for progress. >> i have to leave it there. a lot more in your book including your tax plan. stay safe on the trail sir.

>> thank you chuck. coming up in the end game segment, the clinton who is doing the most talking to the media. here is a hint, it's not hillary. i want my foyer to smell more like a foyer. i want his bedroom to smell like he's away at boarding school. surround yourself with up to 6 hours of luxurious, long-lasting scents... ...introducing new unstopables air refresher.

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the panel is here. you got a hint of the graphic here. i'm starting with a retort that's familiar with republicans. when is hillary clinton going to answer questions from the media. we did our own math. what's amazing since hillary clinton became an official candidate for president there has been a clinton that has taken quite a few questions on camera. bill clinton has taken 39 questions on camera, that >> part of that is because a lot of the questions were about the clinton foundation. they made a decision to let him handle those. look, she has to get out there and answer questions. she has to do it routinely so it's not a major news event. >> it makes a press conference irrelevant. >> she has to get into the rhythm of a campaign where she's out there she's answering questions making speeches.

it would be a terrible mistake to not do that. >> it does make bill clinton right now, the face of the clinton campaign, in an odd way. he hasn't been helpful. >> he hasn't been helpful at all. there's a notion she's in offensive. >> i'm sorry, sar raa, go ahead. >> you talk about, oh, we have to pay our bills, we have a different standard it's unfair. you guys marched into the white house on change because you knew she was dishonest. it's the same problem she has today. >> we learned in 2008, bill clinton, is not necessarily a brilliant politician when his wife is involved in the campaign. maybe it's better to keep him in the background. >> tom friedman do you think this matters? 104 speeches the two clintons have gave. they made over $25 million for

these speeches. it seems as if you know, do you have to do all of that? it's all -- she wants to talk about income and equality. do you think that's going to lead to a tone deafness? >> i don't know, chuck. money and politics is big. i don't know how long that lasts. i go back to what david and sara said. it's going to last a long time if she doesn't come out and talk about her real vision she has for the country. i covered one campaign bill clinton's. i knew why he was running from the beginning. he was a conservative democrat. everything was connected to that. what hobbled hillary last time is the same this time. what is your take on the world? what do you believe? how is this connected to that? until she fill that is void, money, everything else is going to jump in there. >> helene, you are not a political reporter. you covered her do you feel like you have a sense of her vision for the world? >> i don't think i have a good

of sense as i could have. i'm perplexed. she's been through this before. the weird thing is i see her making a lot of the same mistakes as 2008. i find that perplexing. we have seen a lot of hillary clinton on the defensive not on the front foot going forward. i'm very perplexed why we are not doing that. she should be coming out more in particular so it's not as big. >> hypothetical for her if you were secretary of state and negotiated a transpacific trade agreement, would you support the trade deal and nuclear deal? >> encouraging her -- >> tentative on that. >> rand paul had the right question, knowing what you know now would you have gone into libya? >> baseball messenger, no risk baseball, second division baseball. >> let me tell you about risk. this is a guy taking risk after

he ran. mitt romney. any 68-year-old man who takes his shirt off in public is running a risk. look at mitt romney boxing evander holyfield on friday night. by the way wait until you see this. we should all -- look, evander is a professional athlete. look at romney. he's 68 years old not 48 not 58 david. >> i know. >> would you take your shift off and box? >> appearing in public without your shirt at our age, that's frightening. >> i think he looks great. i think he's sucking his gut in but he looks great. >> i would have, too. >> what a tough audience. >> he's had one of the best posts of any candidate who failed. >> amazing. >> he's done well. >> always good in hindsight. that's all for today. we'll be back in two weeks. enjoy your memorial day weekend. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

>> do they see him? >> racing against the clock -- >> he's right there. >> -- to save lives. >> get out! >> this went from being a curiosity to a catastrophe. >> hurry! >> literally, in a matter of minutes. >> diving head first into danger, courageous people risk everything -- >> he can't get out. >> oh, jesus. >> -- to stop a tragedy. >> i don't think i was breathing. i stopped breathing for those few seconds. >> that's when i said, oh, the hell with it. >> heart-stopping rescues. breath-taking power. >> when i saw it, i felt like i should save him. >> and amazing acts of heroism. >> this is what you see in the movies. i like to think we were doing exactly what anyone else would have done. ♪