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tv   The Ed Show  MSNBC  May 18, 2015 2:00pm-3:01pm PDT

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ferguson. plus, deadly shootout. >> an all-out turf battle between five outlaw biker gangs. >> nobody was doing anything. they started shooting people. >> the most violent crime scene that i have ever been involved in. and climate catastrophe. >> you do not have time to deny the effects of climate change. >> we are sleepwalking our way toward a climate catastrophe. >> we start tonight with president obama's new effort to improve police-community relationships. earlier today, the white house announced it will ban federal transfers of military style gear to local police departments. the president is responding to dramatic scenes like this that played out in ferguson, missouri last year. the banned items include armored track vehicles, guns and ammunition 50 caliber or larger, certain type of camouflage uniforms and weaponized aircraft. president obama visited camden, new jersey today where he spoke about the policy shift.
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>> we're also releasing new policies on the militirx style equipment that the federal government has in the past provided the state and local law enforcement agencies. and we've seen how militarized gear can sometimes give people a feeling like there's an occupying force as opposed to a force that's part of the community that's protecting them and serving them. can alienate and intimidate local residents and send the wrong message. so we're going to prohibit some equipment made for the battlefield that is not appropriate for local police departments. >> other equipment can still be acquired with vigorous oversight. this list includes armored vehicles, tactical vehicles riot gear and specialized firearms. the equipment will be transferred only if local police provide additional certification and assurances that the gear will be used responsibly. the militarization of police has taken place through the defense department's excess property program. it's transferred more than $4.3
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billion in equipment since 1997. in 2013 alone roughly $500 million worth of military equipment was transferred to local police departments. today's announcement is part of a larger white house initiative camden's new policing strategy comes as crime rates are falling in the city. >> they cut desk jobs in favor of getting more officers out into the streets. not just to walk the beat, but to actually get to know the residents. to set up basketball games. to volunteer in schools. to participate in reading programs. to get to know small businesses in the area. to be a police officer takes a special kind of courage. and i talked about this on friday at a memorial for 131 officers who gave their lives to protect communities like this
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one. it takes a special kind of courage to run towards danger. to be a person that residents turn to when they're most desperate. and when you match courage with compassion, with care and understanding of the community like we've seen here in camden some really outstanding things can begin to happen. >> camden is one of 21 police departments taking part in the white house police data initiative. these departments will upgrade technology to better provide data on police activity. by having reliable data on things like police stops and use of force, it will help police fix problem areas. it will also help communities' knowledge about police-citizen encounters giving them insight into those often dramatic and sometimes dangerous lethal engagements. i want to know what you think. tonight's question. will demilitarizing the police
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make america safer? go to pulse.msnbc.com/ed to cast your vote. i'll bring you the results later on in the show. let me bring in angela rye and the reverend dr. freddie haynes and ryan riley, justice reporter for "the huffington post." angela will these new police strategies really impact community police relationships, and will they help dramatically reduce the tensions we've seen in those communities? >> well, doc, i think that it's a start. i think that part of this is really understanding how to engage with people. and the way that you do that is to begin a relationship. part of this is the president -- i know we were just talking about this. he has to finesse his words in a way that makes what he's trying to do digestible to police unions and also to people who have never had the types of interaction with law enforcement that many of us have. so he has a very delicate line
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to walk. i think that it is a good first step, but i think a whole lot more has to be done. more resources have to be put toward this initiative. officer friendly can no longer be an anomaly. it has to be the norm. people have to engage and have relationships with their police departments. >> and somebody's preferably from that neighborhood. doctor. haynes, are people hopeful that some of these reforms will work? because we know the tensions there, when we talk about tensions between police departments and citizens, they ain't equal. if you got a revolver and a badge and a shield to protect your actions that's not equal to a person who is intimidated by the show of force. do you think this will help today? >> when moving in direction. it is a good first step. we want to move away from the declared war that so many communities have felt victimized by. to go through the streets of ferguson in the aftermath of michael brown's killing was to see, as it were, bull connor's
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policing on steroids. to see the militarized response. it's almost as if your own government has declared war on you. so i think to move away from persecution and surveillance to protection and service, is what this step is helping us to move towards. so i think it's a wonderful first step. i think the president is on point when he talks about the importance of engaging the community. we want the move from occupation to cooperation. that's when law enforcement brings about justice and of course, on the wheelingss of that will be police. >> how are they reacting to demilitarizing police today? >> i think it's tough to say just because the announcement came today, but it is important to note the law enforcement lobby is very involved in this process and spoke out in support of a lot of these programs very early on. overall, the list of items that are explicitly banned it isn't
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extraordinarily long and there's not too many people defending handing out bayonets. i vbt but, you know, overall, i think there's just more of a limit on how these items will be used. that's probably going to have the most impact. but the list of actual things that are being explicitly removed isn't extraordinarily large and i think that's probably a result of the lobbying that the law enforcement lobby did. >> yeah. do you think this new police data program will work? people have said we don't know how many stops are current. we don't know what ends up happening when there are interactions that are hostile between police people and citizens. do you think this is going to help? >> it has to help. i think part of this is again, if there's no data, we can't really understand how severe the problem is. one thing that was done i think as you know at the end of last congress, was bobby scott finally got over the threshold with his death and custody act. that is another data collection point that is so very important
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to seeing how these things will pan out and how relationships will be strengthened with law enforcement. part of it is it can no longer be us versus them. if it is going to be about community engagement involving people in crime prevention and ensuring that people aren't just targeted because of the color of their skin. data has to be a huge part of that. we're seeing that even in industries. if there is an underrepresentation of people of color, we know we have a problem to fix. if there's an overrepresentation of people of color that are dying or being arrested or stopped and frisked like we saw in new york, you have to do something about it. the only way to fix that is through data. >> that gives meaning to big data for sure. dr. haynes what's the biggest thing police can do right now to improve community relationships in these especially communities of color where the hostilities have taken just epic proportions? >> i think it's important that we move from occupation to cooperation in that the police are seen as partners, not only
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in law enforcement, but ensuring that there is a presence of justice. and so one of the things i've seen police departments that are putting together basketball leagues. in these communities, where there is high crime. i think the president was on point talking about engaging in service so that children engage police officers as they receive tutoring and reading. things of that nature that emphasize service and protection will help to recreate and redefine what policing looks like in the 21st century, so the kinds of service activities that engage the community where the police are a part of the community, partnering with the community, those are the kinds of things that will turn this around, and again, redefine law enforcement in the 21st century. >> and before i turn to ryan again, i've got to ask both angela and dr. haynes while you're here. in light of a story we're going to talk about later, which we know is the waco situation where police people were
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involved in a gun battle and nine people were killed in rival gangs. we didn't hear the language of thug. we didn't hear the criminalization of a community. do you think that context provides an interpretive analysis about how we approach these communities and if we have pre-criminalized them, we're going to tend to be more hostile, and therefore thoseç communities are going to be more vulnerable when we bring the militarized -- if you will, weaponry to bear upon them. can y'all talk a bit about that? >> i think the answer is right here. i think the real issue is media has a role to play, too. this really is a 360-degree relationship. if law enforcement thinks that, you know black people are more likely to commit crimes because that is how media continues to portray them, and there's no one to combat those stereotypes. you can't just say end racism by ending police brutality. racism has to be killed
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someplace else. so i think that we all have a responsibility too with our varying platforms to ensure that that type of language has no place. and, of course doc, you are very effective at doing that. >> dr. haynes, what do you think? >> i agree with her wholeheartedly. as a matter of fact, we cannot lay all of this on policing. in a real sense the longer legacy of racism in this country, oftentimes policing was symptomatic as opposed to the root cause. so until we deal with the presuppositions that have been fed into many of the police officers who come into the community with a certain notion as it relates to what this community is like and so i see this person as a demon. i am only a little fifth grader. they are hulk hogan. all of that is a presupposition that has been fed by the media, by this nation's refusal to deal with its lingering legacy of racism as we still live in the 51st state the state of denial.
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so this is one way of delivering us from that, so we can begin to create opportunities of community. >> all right. so ryan if military equipment was present in ferguson, do you think it would have played out differently without the kind of drama we saw down there? >> i do. i definitely think it was not only about the presence of the equipment, but when it was used. there were times it changed the entire dynamic of how the crowd was acting. on the 13th of august you had a very calm situation. a church band playing. "happy" was playing on the radio. and all that happened was a state senator and a couple other people blocking a road that wasn't even that busy of a road. and because of that, and nothing else they brought in these vehicles, which really stirred up the crowd and created this confrontational situation because people were outraged. they didn't feel like they were being occupied. there's nothing present that
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would have possibly excused the presence of these vehicles. and even the st. louis county police chief later acknowledged yeah, we probably shouldn't have been using rifle scopes to check out the crowd. that maybe wasn't the best idea. so, i mean, you know, just the way this was handled i think is something that's going to be subject of a report out of the justice department. an after-action report looking at what they did and what they could have done better. i don't think like a lot of other cities that were able to prepare for a planned event. when something pops up like this, that's something they need to figure out how to take care of. >> so it wasn't the fact that what went down in ferguson is what brought to the attention of most of americans the fact that we have overmilitarized our police departments and that led directly to the president's decision today? >> i think that's only a part of it. over-militarization is one thing, but the attitude behind that is another. when you're in your own becomeackyard and you feel like you're the enemy. and the attitude makes that even worse or compounds that fact i think that would make anyone tense and frustrated.
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i think we're living in a day and age now where there are people who look like us who are highly intimidated any time they encounter a police officer and that has to change. >> right. thanks so much for your time tonight. remember to answer tonight's question at pulse.msnbc.com/ed. we'll have the results later in the show. coming up a biker brawl in texas has left state law enforcement on the edge. we'll have an update from the scene ahead. and later arctic ice is disappearing at an alarming rate. we'll look at what this ice loss means for our planet. stay tuned. i am totally blind. and sometimes i struggle to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day. this is called non-24. learn more by calling 844-824-2424.
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welcome back. nine people are dead and 18 injured after a huge biker brawl in waco, texas, on sunday. we'll have more on that next. in the meantime, we're keeping our eyes on a possible development here. we are following a possible
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nobody's perfect. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. welcome back to "the ed show." as we reported, nine people are dead and 18 injured after a huge biker brawl in waco texas, on sunday. at least 170 people were arrested and will be charged with engaging in organized crime. fighting spilled out of the twin peaks restaurant and escalated from chains clubs and knives to gunfire. five biker gangs weze involved in the melee and exchanged gunfire with police. nbc's jay gray has the latest. >> reporter: even veteran law officers say they're stunned by the carnage left behind. >> we had wounded inside. we had people stabbed.
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we had people shot. and we had people beat. >> reporter: nine gang members killed, at least 18 wounded during a full-on recruiting and turf war between five outlaw biker groups. >> we have five known gangs that were involved here. i am not about to give them the respect of mentioning their names. >> reporter: police say it started in the bathroom at the twin peaks restaurant, spilling into the bar and then the parking lot. >> people pulled guns out and started shooting people. that's what they did in there. >> reporter: that's when officers already staged in the area rushed in. >> we've been here for the past two months knowing that there are issues. >> reporter: and police say they approached the managers at twin peaks about gang activity before the shootout. >> we've encouraged them to work with us to eliminate some of that activity to keep it from happening. but that was to no avail. >> reporter: this morning, twin peaks corporate headquarters revoked the waco restaurant's franchise, saying in a written statement that the management team chose to ignore the warnings and advice from both the police and our company.
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and as the investigation continues here, there's now a new concern. >> they are threatening to kill uniformed officers and we're aware of that. >> reporter: aware, and local, state, and federal officers still on alert across the area say ready if it comes to them. >> for more on this melee, let's bring in olivia messer police reporter for the "waco tribune-herald." give us the latest about what's going on there. >> reporter: i think that the developments today the main ones, are that bond has been set for most of the 170 that were arrested yesterday. now that they've been moved into the jail, we've had the chance to see some of their names and some of their mugshots and a one million-dollar bond was set on each of them. it looks like they're probably going to be in jail for a little while. the other development is we're kind of keeping track of how many other biker gang members are coming into the city.
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police are saying that that number is slowing, and they haven't had any other major incidents, but that's really what they're focusing on right now i think. >> so the restaurant in question here, is it going to be allowed to reopen because there's been quite a bit of consternation about the fact that they were pre-warned, they were asked to be a bit more vigorous than they were. it seems that those concerns were ignored by the restaurant. >> yeah. i think local management is really what police are focusing on right now. the corporate revoked their franchise agreement, so i think that's going to be a pretty big hurdle for them to overcome if they would like to reopen. the tabc put a seven-day suspension on their alcohol and liquor license, so if they are open for the next seven days they will not the able to serve alcohol. but i also think that in general, it seems like people in
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waco are frustrated at the picture that police are painting of the management, and, you know, i don't know how well their business would do after this. >> well, let's ask a broader question there. how is the communi ç itself feeling? are they on edge? because i talked earlier about the fact that when there were up risings going on in baltimore, people were criminalized called thugs, seen as wayward people. but here we have an instance where a lot of people have been killed and there's been a tremendous hostility between the police and them. is there similar reaction first of all to them being criminalized as thugs, and secondly is the community itself on edge? >> i definitely think that the community is on edge. maybe less so than last night. yesterday a lot of streets were closed. and the entire convention center was being used to detain some 200 suspects. and we don't normally have something that big happen here. so that was concerning to a lot of people.
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but i think that word thug i've seen it used by people in waco to describe some of the people who were involved in yesterday's melee. i think that there's generally concern about bikers coming into town. yesterday, you couldn't walk five feet without seeing a police officer in the city. but i think today with "t!usinesses reopening there's a little bit less of a concern. i think people are kind of moving back to normal. >> all right olivia messer, thank you so much for joining us. >> thanks. still ahead senator sheldon whitehouse prepares for a major milestone. and a major setback in iraq as isis forces take control of a major city. we'll have the latest on the takeover of ramadi, next. stay tuned.
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and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful. there were two major updates in
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the fight against isis this weekend. the obama administration announced saturday that a senior isis official was killed in special operations ground raid in syria. abu sayyaf was in charge of the oil operations. but the group is claiming a victory in iraq. they have captured the city of ramadi. keir simmons has more. >> reporter: iraqi security forces appeared to flee ramadi, escaping the isis advance. video unverified by nbc news shows humvees packed with iraqi military in full retreat leaving a crucial city seeming desserted. a propaganda video purports to show isis fighters walking ramadi's empty streets. a hospital ransacked. video of intense fighting. the secretary of state insisting this morning isis remains on the
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defensive. >> it is possible to have the kind of attack we've seen in ramadi, but i am absolutely confident in the days ahead that will be reversed. >> reporter: there had been an intense air campaign to save ramadi, a city just about 80 miles west of baghdad. the u.s. has sent weapons and is providing training. >> we're getting reports minute by minute. but we believe that around 500 people have been executed or died in battle. >> reporter: 8,000 civilians have fled in recent days. behind them, isis controls much of their city and military base. packed with weapons. the anbar region is a place where so many americans died during the iraq war, but an iraqi official tells me he believes that the city of ramadi fell to an isis force numbering just hundreds. meanwhile thousands of shia militia are said to be gathering to try to liberate the city, which is largely sunni. >> for more let's turn to
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michael hanlan senior fellow at the brookings institute. is this a major setback in the fight against isis? >> you know, i think it is significant. i think people were hope inging a few months ago that by this point in the mid spring we would see the iraqi forces liberating mosul, which is the biggest city in the north and west the biggest city they took that isil took last year. but we're nowhere near that. there was a modest success and now this major setback in ramadi. i hope secretary kerry is right to say it may only last a few days or weeks, but i'm not sure i'm as confident as he is about the liberation. and if we have to depend on the shia militia to do it or the iraqi government that may be sewing seeds for further trouble. i see this as a fairly significant and bad development. >> beyond ramadi will other key
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cities in iraq be at risk? >> you know, it's not that far from baghdad. you folks accurately described the size of the isil forces, not very big. you could have suicide bombers going from ramadi into baghdad. they already do. they have other ways of getting there. but, you know, that's one reason why this is significant. also some major tribal allies that we would like to see working with the iraqi government and with us are going to be either broken apart or many of the members killed. and you've already noted that maybe several hundred have been executed since isil took over. and so you know, ramadi doesn't have a lot of oil. it's not really on the way to too many places except other cities in anbar province. so i'm not sure i see it as significant in any greater sense than that. but it has proximity to baghdad. it's symbolic. it's one of iraq's eight or ten largest cities. a lot of our allies are there. probably being dispersed or killed. this is not a good week in iraq. it's a much better point in
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syria. >> is the death of abu sayyaf a blow to isis and their operations, or similar to what happened with al qaeda, they had already been franchised to such a broad degree that killing a few operatives of the upper ranks did not discourage them at the lower ranks, so to speak. >> that's exactly the right question and you put the question better than i can give any answer. because we usually just can't say in these sort of situations. regrettably, isil is big enough now that i'd be surprised if it's number three or four or five guy, the killing of him made a huge difference. on the other hand, it's got to create a little bit of doubt among the followers that they could be next. but the united states has broken an important threshold and is willing to use its special forces in this way. so you could start to see the beginning of a shift in momentum, especially if we are willing to go beyond that one raid and do other things as well. in and of itself, it makes for a better week of news in syria than we've had in a long time, but i'm not sure it's going to be a major turning point.
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>> all right. michael o'hanlon, thank you for joining us here tonight. >> my pleasure. thank you. still ahead, senator sheldon whitehouse joins me on his climate change crusade and more. stay tuned. i'm hampton pearson with your cnbc market wrap. stocks gained ground. the dow climbs 26 points to close at a new high. the s&p adds six to finish at another record as well. the nasdaq is up by 30 points. apple ended higher after billionaire investor carl icahn said the value of the stock at $240 a share. he also called on the company to buy more stock back. and home builder sentiment fell this month in what's typically a busy time for the real estate market. economists were expecting more optimism to improve sales. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide.
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a massive section of antarctica's ice shelf is hanging on by a thread. according to a new study from nasa the ice shelf could disintegrate completely by 2020. sciencetists say the collapse will undoubtedly contribute to the global sea level rise. >> 2/3 of it collapsed in less than six weeks. and the intervening period between 2002 and now the remaining part has been weakening very, very quickly. we expect it to not last for more than a few years to come. >> the larson b ice shelf lasted for 10,000 years. but began to shatter 13 years ago. some have thinned by 72 feet. the science is clear. climate change is altering our environment at an alarming rate. over the next few years, an entire ice shelf will collapse before scientists' eyes, but
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lawmakers are still dragging their feet on climate intervention. >> the government can't change the weather. i said that in the speech. no, we can pass a bunch of laws that will destroy our economy, but it isn't going to change the weather. >> today the global warming alarmists are the equivalent of the flat earthers. >> it's kind of laughable with all the records that are being sent. >> one senator is trying to wake his colleagues up no matter how long it takes. senator sheldon whitehouse has led the charge on climate intervention since 2012. when he began his "time to wake joining me now is senator sheldon whitehouse of rhode island. we're catching him just before he sets off to mark his 100th speech. thanks for joining us today. >> thank you michael. good to be with you. >> what is your response to this news about the mammoth ice shelf collapse? >> it's just yet another signal
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that the earth is sending us, whether you go to the tide gauge at naval station newport or to the forests in idaho and montana, or the droughts in arizona and california. you can go virtually every place in the country, you see these changes beginning to happen. this big ice move is significant because it may accelerate the pace of a land-based ice moving into the ocean, which will raise sea levels even more rapidly. >> so senator, did you imagine when you began your series that your wake-up series would go on this long, 100 speeches now? >> well it was a pretty dark time when we started it. there was really not a lot of action on climate. not a lot of talk about climate change either. so yeah i figured i was going to be at this a while. >> well has the conversation changed since you started the series? do you think you have an ally higher up so to speak and do you think you have more allies
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among your fellow senators? >> i think i have a big ally higher up in president obama. the white house is completely revived on this issue. the work that they're doing internationally. the work that they're doing on the power plant rule has been really significant. and really made a big difference. what i'm hearing that's interesting is a lot of my republican colleagues in the senate are starting to say hey, sheldon, i've got to get right on this issue. or, you know, our party has to get right on this issue. we can't keep doing this denial nonsense. or even our country has to lead. we can't be dragged back by the fossil fuel industry. none of them want to say it publicly. because the fossil fuel industry has some really big political artillery thanks to citizens united and they've made very clear that they're going to punish anybody who crosses them. but the pressure is building among republican senators for a %,5 of the fossil fuel industry on
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this issue and when it happens it will happen very fast, i think. >> here's one notable resister. what's your response to senator ted cruz saying so-called global warming alarmists are flat earthers? >> it's a wonderful technique of rhetoric where you accuse your opponent of being exactly who you are, so that the conversation looks like a tie and people tune it out. but clearly, every single major american scientific society says that this is real. the scientists at nasa say that this is real. every single one of our military services says that this is real. i'd say that the flat earth shoe is on the other foot. >> right. so do you think we need another natural disaster on the scale of katrina before this nation wakes up and understands that something is amiss here and that we've got to take dramatic action?
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>> i think there's enough going on locally in small places around the country, whether it's a ski resort owner who's worried about whether there will be snow, or a fisherman who's a lot of people are starting to have a second look at this. and so i think optimistically perhaps, but i think that we're going to see a big move in the republican party between now and november of 2016. i don't think they can send a presidential candidate before a general election electorate in november of 2016 who isn't serious about climate change. once the presidential candidate has made that move then i think the party's got to follow and a lot of senators will want to jump at that point, too. >> from your mouth at least to the voters' ears. >> yeah i know. so will that play a big role do you think, in the 2016 election? you say if they can't stand there in honesty without having addressed this issue, will those be the instruments that they
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use? >> yeah, i think that they will. i'm not sure that keystone will still be a big deal, but climate i think will be. if you're a local voter and you're seeing a real change in your state whether it's on the farms or along the coast and you're seeingç a representative or a senator who refuses to address it in any kind of sensible way, and at the same time you're seeing that senator or representative taking buckets of money from the big fossil fuel industry and all their front organizations, that's a tough combination. now you've got somebody who's ignoring the folks at home because of out of state money in politics as usual. even if climate change isn't your personal top issue you expect your representatives to listen to your state, and if they're not listening any longer because they're tied up in the fossil fuel denial machine, i think that's a real danger for republicans who haven't gotten right by 2016.
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>> all right. senator sheldon whitehouse, thank you so much, my friend. >> thank you. still to come jeb bush commits to his stance against same-sex marriage. we'll have the details ahead. stay tuned. what do you think of when you think of the united states postal service? exactly. that's what pushes us to deliver smarter simpler faster sleeker earlier fresher harder farther quicker
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the first and only car with direct adaptive steering. ♪ the 328 horsepower q50 from infiniti. welcome back to "the ed show." in tonight's "two-minute drill," bean ball. during saturday's pac-12 match-up between washington state and arizona state, washington pitcher lane brunner's pitch got a little too close for comfort. arizona outfielder john seawall got beamed but still managed to make a great play. he caught the ball with his arm and flipped it back to brunner before heading off to first base. arizona could go on to win the game in extra innings and it did. the stakes are getting higher on the hard court. the conference final match-ups are set. the houston rockets battled back
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from a 3 games to 1 deficit in their series against the l.a. clippers. they capped off their run last night with a 113-100 win over l.a. to move on to the western conference finals. they'll face the golden state warriors, who won all four regular season match-ups against the rockets. that series tips off on tuesday. the eastern conference finals kick off on wednesday as the atlanta hawks, which beat my washington wizards we should have won had john wall been healthy, we would have prevail prevailed, i'm sure. the hawks take on the cleveland cavaliers. it's the hawks' first trip to the conference finals since 1971. stick around. there's a lot more coming up on "the ed show" after this.
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the supreme court is expected to rule next month on the constitutionality of same sex marriage. court observers and justices have behind that the court is likely to expand marriage rights which has left evangelical conservatives desperate for a champion of traditional marriage. one likely 2016 republican hopeful has come out to say faith-based opposition to same sex marriage should continue regardless of how the supreme court rules. on sunday, the former florida governor jeb bush hardened his stance against same sex marriage on the christian broadcasting network. >> i think traditional marriage is a sacrament. it is talked about being formed by one's faith.
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it is at the core of the catholic faith. to imagine how we'll succeed in our country unless we have committed family life, a child centered family system is hard to imagine. so irrespective of the supreme court ruling because they're going to decide whatever they decide. i don't know what they're going to do. we need to be stallwart supporters. a big tolerance country ought to be able to figure out the difference between discriminating against someone because of their sexual orientation and not, forcing someone to participate in a wedding that they findings against their moral beliefs. >> joining me now, sirius xm host executive director of americans united for church and state. what do you make of his comments here? it seems that he is doing a dosy dough in a back and forth.
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he had one opinion a couple three months ago. now he has another one. >> i think all these candidates on the republican ticket are looking desperately to find a way to outconservative their other candidates. in other words we have three candidates in the race now, michael, who have already told god told them to run. it started with ted cruz, then ben carson and then we also learned that mike huckabee thinks that god can in fact be the person who overturns supreme court decisions. what is happening today with jeb bush is interesting. he says traditional marriage is a sacrament. he is using a very religious word. what most of the folks that are interested in having marriage ceremonies who are same sex couples want is sometimes they want a religious ceremony. sometimes they want a purely secular service. any way you look at it, the principal participants in these weddings. when someone says i won't cater
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pizza as the people in indiana said a few weeks ago we're not catering slices of pizza to a gay wedding. let's get over that most people would not have pizza at their wedding. what in the world would possibly make them participants in a wedding? a guy who sets up chairs is not a participant. i officiated two or three weddings every year. i'm a participant. the bride and group they're participant. a guy who delivers food? i'm sorry. he or she is not a participant in any meaningful way in that ceremony. jeb bush apparently thinks they are. >> especially if they don't bring the pepperoni. so bush says -- to discriminate against same sex couples. how do you figure that out? >> reverend berry is correct. jeb bush has flipped like a crack house mattress yet again. he is now to the right of mike
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pence on this. he said his state that needed to be fixed. i don't know any self-respecting gay couple that wants pizza catering at their wedding but to each its own. it's not that jeb bush is telling the evangelical base what he thinks they want to hear. although i think most conservative christians don't have these big hang-ups against gay marriage. some might be uncomfortable but most follow the teachings of christ. what really follows me is not the bigots. haters gonna hate. and it is not jeb bush. it is the media. i'm really sick and tired of the media not stepping up and challenging this notion that holm phobia is the de facto christian. jesus never said a thing about gay people. he said you're supposed to love everyone. if you're a christian you should love and support people. not do this very unchristlike nasty discrimination toward them. i am really getting sick of my culture assuming if you're a christian, you must be a
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homophobe and that's okay. it is one thing if you're saying going to war for conscientious reasons. that's something jesus actually talked about. if you use religious camouflage to cover up your hang-ups then you have to proof your religion says that. and jeb bush doesn't follow the book of leviticus and neither does anyone else. >> the point is the right wing in this country, particularly, tries proof text everything from selectively reading of the bible. the book john is right. there's nothing about gay marriage in the christian bible. nothing about abortion in the christian bible or in the hebrew scriptures. no question about that at all. when it comes to a lot of other moral issues, the right is not willing ever to accept the possibility that christians can have differing viewpoints. most bible scholars today would tell you there is no literal reading of the bible that can in
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fact be proven to be correct. that these guys come out and say every possible. and they are speaking apocalyptic terms about this decision likely to come on june 30th and they think marriage equality -- they're going to find new ways. try to get the federal courts out of the business of considering anything about marriage. they are going on try to pass more and more refusal laws, allowing the caterers, the photographerers, not to serve in any same sex wedding. that's what they want to do them want to hurt the gay community. >> i don't think it is out of malice respectfully. i think they're doing it to raise money off gullible mean christians who think the talking snake was literal. that jesus saying love your enemy is metaphorical. >> this kind of rhetoric appears to evangelical conservative who's already vote republican. how will this play with independents? it won't gain them any more followers on the far right.
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>> not in the general. the clown car of the campaign has become a clown win beggo. lindsey graham is going to run? jeb knows he has no shot of winning eye watch the teem will never set him. and i think a lot of main stream republicans won't be accepting him either. this is a pandering guy pandering for a presidential election that is never going to go anywhere. >> very briefly. what should we expect on the campaign trail for republicans like jeb bush is the support rules to expand marriage rules right and left. >> i think what will happen is legislative solutions that may or may not even be constitutional. the idea that you can take an entire topic and say the court, the federal courts november jurisdiction over this. i think that's unconstitutional. it has been tried before about matters like school prayer. it has never gained any traction. i don't think it will gain any traction but you'd better believe this is what they're going to force republicans and democrats to talk çabout.
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>> all right. thank you both for your time tonight. that's the ed show. "politics nation" with reverend al sharpton starts now. he ain't no false prophet. he's the real deal. >> good evening. thanks to you for tuning in. developing news tonight, the intensifying fight against isis and renewed political questions over the iraq war. this weekend isis fighters captured the city of ramadi, the capital of iraq's largest province. likely killing up to 500 people and delivering a serious blow to the iraqi government. the fall of ramadi coming just days after u.s. special forces conducted a ground raid in syria, killing a senior isis leader. the rise of isis