here is another new segment called joe biden what? ♪ >> i had a dream that i was vice president and was with the president and we did the disco funk dance to convince congress to restart the government. ♪ >> wow. i love him. >> wait, tomorrow night is the last night right? >> no, i refuse to believe that.

i hope it goes well. >> it will go well. >> i hope -- we're not talking about biden of course, we're talking about letterman's last night. biden's show runs through -- >> he keeps going. you never know. >> so, man, dave leaving tomorrow night. it's just not good. not good at all. >> it's the end of a huge portion of my life and the lives of many many other people. he is so iconic. these last few shows these last two weeks, have been staggeringly great. just incredible. >> and obviously his hero was johnny carson. and everybody believed that letterman was going to replace johnny carson. and of course jay when know did well for this network

financially. but, you know, it's so interesting thatwhen know did well for this network financially. but, you know, it's so interesting that while johnny carson was huge and massive and had great influence and i loved him, it's ironic that johnny carson comes second in terms of influence to what david letterman has done to the comity landscape since 1982. >> i think there is no doubt about that. the cut churlture is so different and has been during most of dave's run at cbs that he really symbolizes there is a distance to him, an irony to him that is so just wrapped up in who we are as a culture today. it's really interesting. but he is so great. he is so great. >> so did you end up lyinging the "mad men" finale? >> yes i did. >> did you like it? >> i did. i've been a mad"mad men" fan since

the show aired. so it's the end of an era literally and figuratively. >> i refused to watch it. >> there you go. >> i got into this late. got through like half the first season and by that time it was too busy. >> too busy. >> i had important things to do. family, work. >> thank god i didn't have important things do. 87 kids and the house burning down. no but they just crammed everything into the last episode. it's like he forgot that he had had like seven eight seasons. and so suddenly, boom, this gets resolved. boom that gets resolved. it all happened very quickly. >> yeah, the structure of the last -- >> it was way too pat. a great season. it was a great season. one of his best seasons, i'd suggest. but the last episode it's like he ran out of time. >> you could see as the writer,

hat winer, you could er matt wineeiner, each scene is a different door. oh, that's what's going to happen to peggy. we've resolved that. that's that's what will happen to him and her. and don and the ironic smirk on his face just as you fade into the coke commercial, don will be don going forward. oh don did the coke commercial. >> the hingething is-ç though, i'm sitting there with my son 27 years old, that did that realize what we realized. mika probably remembers. do you remember the iconic coke commercial? >> oh, yeah. i'm that old. >> so people under let's say 45 didn't get it. >> no. >> right? >> right. >> people over 45 did get it. and i would said for people under 45 that may have been -- people over 45 like me they thought it was a little too obvious. i think they should have gone to black and then played the commercial. i don't know.

>> but peggy raised the coke commercial in the phone conversation. come on back you can go to work for coke. >> hey, by the way, a lot of people are wondering why abc is you know kind of -- they jumped out front as quickly as they did on the gormg stephanopoulos thing. the new york "post" provides insight this morning. wow. >> puts the donation in a whole different perspective. >> so if you want to know why he didn't know the $75,000 -- gee, did i give them $75,000 or not? maybe that's why. $105 million. >> let's get to the news. >> is that his salary? >> that's his salary. abc has put all their money on one -- you know yeah. i mean holy cow. >> let's just leave it.

we begin -- >> it's a little too late to leave it at this point, isn't it? >> we talked about it yesterday. everybody misunderstood me. we talked about the ethical breach. i was talking about transparency in the news. and i think that it's okay to be on television if you are transparent about your world view. and your leans. he clearly has them because he worked for the clintons. and everyone thought he could la about the la bottom miz himself. >> he's a liberal democrat and that's fine. but what is not fine is what he did to peter schweizer when he came on the air. >> he agrees with that. >> played judge and jury and prosecutor. and it was humiliatesing. i mean if you're at abc new, you have to be humiliated by the fact that he did it that and he did not reveal that he had paid $75,000 to an organization. and then he's talking about the investigations they did. so you know but they're not going to do anything to him.

let's be honest. if it happened at nbc and it were matt lauer, everybody is talking brian williams i mean if all -- if all he were doing was abc world news tonight, he'd have been gone. but let's face it, if matt lauer did that over here, everybody would be -- because that's where they make the money. they don't make money on those night news shows anymore. they make it in the morning. that's where all the money is made. but any way, at the end of the day, how surprising it all comes down to money. >> so let's get to the news. we begin with the concerns about the spread of the islamic state militants. a u.s. official tells the "wall street journal" that isis now has an operational presence in libya and is regularly sending fighters there. it comes as joint chiefs chairman martin dempsey admits that the fall of ramadi is a

setback for iraqi security =i-x]ñ but it'sing to new questions about the strategy to defeat isis and what exactly that strategy is. joining us from london, bill neely. bill, how do you see the fall of ramadi impacting u.s. military policy toward isis moving forward, if it does at all? >> good morning, mika. yes, after the fall of ramadi, the question now is how quickly can it be taken back, can it ever be taken back. john kerry said yesterday he was absolutely confident that it would be retaken within days. we'll have the test of that confidence. there are reports that s thats that that about 3,000 shia made lish man are gathering at a base and waiting for orders from iraq's prime minister as to move in and to try to retake ramadi. i suppose the two questions really, the first one is what role, if any does the u.s.

take. there are reports that u.s. air strikes are continuing around ramadi, but remember in the three days of fighting during which isis tookç ramadi there were 19 u.s. air strikes, dozens around ramadi this the weekin the weeks before that and it didn't stop isis. so how effective can u.s. air strikes be. and secondly does the u.s. really want to be the advanced air guard, if you like, for iranian backed militias who might retake this city. we visited this question six weeks ago over tikrit. the question looms again. the second big question, do the iraqis themselves have the will the manpower and the leadership not just to retake ramadi, but what about mosul. we'd heard that there might be some kind of campaign against the city of hoemosul which isis has had for the last year sometime this summer. that looks more and more

distant. it seems isis took ramadi with just a few hundred soldiers, but it will be very tough block by block to take that city back. and he's being accused of failure and being weak. so the following days and the next week not just for john kerry'a talk of confidence this will be a really test both it for the u.s. and for the iraqi prime minister. >> so, bill, you're sitting in the studio obviously in london. i may have graduated from the university of alabama, but i can read those letters behind you. and just help us out because we're talking about isis spreading across the middle east we're talking about what the united states is supposed to do. at the same time, there was an election obviously in great britain where they cut -- talked about cutting their defense budget. what did it the newspapers look

like this morning in london? are londoners concerned about the spread of isis? do they just assume the united states is going to keep going and dying for the rest of the world or that we're going to keep paying our tax dollars? there are some of us that are getting more and more agitated that we're supposed to be the guarantors of peace across the world. what are they saying in london? what about paris, what about madrid, across europe, what is their role? >> of course iraq was a hugely divisive issue in 2003 across europe. britain of course was the junior partner of the united states. and we are reminded regularly here in the uk that britain failed in iraq. in france and germany and russia, of course, they took a different view of the iraq war. so many in paris and berlin simply shrug their shoulders and say you're seeing now what a

disastrous decision that was. >> democrats are doing that, too, over here. and even some republicans are talking. but it's 2015. what are we going to do about the spread of isis? i'm just wondering is there just the assumption that the united states will play cleanup here? >> well united states is no question taking the leading role. british planes are involved in iraq, but only in a minor role. you're talking about one air strike every few days. and british warplanes are not involved this tackling isis in syria. i think the lessons of the iraq war still reverberate and one of them being said openly here and across europe is that you cannot win the war against isis with air strikes alone. you can't win it from 30,000 feet. and also we look at the disaster of the iraqi army, britain like the united states had hundreds if not thousands of trainers

training the iraqi army and building it up with armored vehicles. it is said that there are not only five brigades of the iraqi army that are combat effective. that's 15,000 troops maximum. it's already said that isis has that many men and more who are not just battle hardened but every single one of them it would seem are willing to die. so i think here and in washington and in berlin and in paris, you though,know there is real concern that the strategy frgs we can call it that, to combat isis in iraq and syria simply isn't working at the minute. >> bill neely, we love having you on. thank you so much for reporting to us again this morning. so dorian, 1991 we all heard the reports that the iraqi army was the fourth largest in the world the united states was going to face the fight of their lives. and they just dissolved like sugar in hot water. 2003 the same thing, right?

we had all the suits ready. we were sure to face you know chemical warfare, many americans were going to die. we marched in. now 2014, 2015, they dissolved again. why can't we just admit it? there is no iraqi army. they have never been able to do anything effectively whatsoever. and now we're left with an absolute blank slate. and i can't believe the united states has to carry the world security on their shoulders here. >> it is a radically different world even from 2003 in one crucial way and that is that there are these stateless forces, isis al qaeda, that have arisen in that void between those years. so in 1991 we had a state versus another state. now we have asymmetric warfare where you have the stateless

groups who are muddying the waters in terms of how we imagineç going to war. so the iraqi army, yes, has totally collapsed against an army, a militia that is not even a state. >> and we keep hearing politicians in washington talk about we have to train the iraqi army. you know, why don't you just pick a kindergarten out somewhere in the tri-state area and give, you know -- train them to do something. these people have been colossal failures type ss time and time again. >> the irony is some of the top leaders are some of the top generals from saddam hussein's regime. basically the failures of the iraqi people, the few positive most effective people are on the isis side. if there was one area where the american officials were honest, it was that rebuilding the iraqi army was going to take a long time. the way it dissolved was

catastrophic on some level. but what they have been left with right now is really nothing. and the response now is to send shia militia as into a sunni area which is only going to exacerbate the area and make the local sunni population almost equally with isis as they are the shia militias. i think the hope was that sun any sunny sue sunn chlt countries would provide the men on the ground. >> robert gates will be here onset. also senator scott. and also the author of "clinton cash," peter schweizer would he acts to the latest rounds headlines. and also from modern family actor stone street joins the table. but first bill karins. >> a little bit of everything today, guys. we had some storms yesterday in texas, some amazing hail pictures that came out.

we have rain and thunderstorms that rolled through d.c. last night that woke shall peopleome people up. now light rain in new england. you can see the radars are active. south of albany we have a a little bit of rain we're dealing with and also this large area of showers and even some heavy down pours from hartford north. as far as this afternoon, this the cold front will swing on through. we will see additional showers and storms, vermont, albany all the way down to new york city and philadelphia. not everyone will get soaked, but we will see a few showers and storms. worst weather in the country last night, san angelo, texas. over 4 inches of rain. water rescues would happen and the airport is closed and you would day today with water in the terminal. and we'll see flash flooding right through the next 24 to 48 hours in this region of the country. texas and oklahoma have been the ones getting all the rain. and i'll leave you with this. look how cold it is in the northern plains. windchills in the 20s and 30s.

ridiculously cold for this time of year. thankfully all that cold air will go away in the days ahead and even they will begin to warm up. new york city, some showers this morning. thunderstorms this afternoon. my school reunion. i don't know. who wants to play in idaho? gotta get milwaukee up to speed. we win in flint, we take the lead.

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for 10 gigs. and $15 per line. stop by or visit us online. and save without settling. only on verizon. polls in new jersey say you would not make a good president. they know you youuyou the best. >> a lot of those people in that 65% want me to say. i've heard that a lot don't leave to run for president. >> but they say you would for the make a good president. >> i think people hear the question they want to hear. >> chris christie talking about his potential there. also new this morning, the private e-mails that hillary clinton turned over last december may not be available until january of 2016. in a court filing, the state

department said it will take the rest of the year to review the 55,000 pages of e-mails that clinton turned over from her private server. the department says that 12 full-time staffers have been assigned to the project. this as the morning times reports that the congressional committee investigating the 2012 attacks in benghazi will subpoena a long time clinton ally for a private transcribed interview. sydney bloom that you willumenthal was working for the clinton foundation as he wrote mem memos on libya to the secretary. he was advising a group of businessmen. >> so sydney blumenthal was trying to make money from libya. and so his business associates that wanted to make money from libya were giving him information and the "times" is

reporting that he sent that on to the secretary of state. what did she do with it? >> "times" reporting clinton appeared to take blumenthal's advice seriously forwarding his memos to top officials. >> well, let's go to washington right now. norg "new york times" reporter who broke this story, always -- just a trouble maker. michael schmidt. a lot of people were reading this story this morning and talking about how she was passing along this advice to top people in the state department despite the fact they kept telling her what genuinely bad advice it was. tell us about it. >> well, what with a happen is that she would take blumenthal's memos, she would write him back, say thanks, appreciate it, and would send them to jay sullivan her well regarded foreign policy adviser. he would copy the text and then forward to different people at state. he would forward to chris stevens, ambassador to libya

before stevens and he would get their reactions to it and he would say it came from an hrc contract or hcontact or hrc friend. they would say some makes sense, this doesn't make sense this is wrong, this is right. and then those responses would be septembernt to the secretary for her to couple and see if there was any there there. >> the root of this, the other side of it, sidydney blumenthal's relationship was with whom, certain people who wanted to do business with libya as libya was imploding? >> well, i mean what was going on is that he had these relationships with these american contractors former cia, american businessmen that were trying to get in on sort of the bottom ground there of what was going to be the new libyan government. and what were the rebels going to be doing. do they need to be trained, do

they need help with infrastructure, those types of things. it looks like those group of business guys were producing this information that he was then using to send to the secretary. >> do we know whether sydney blumenthal had any sort of business relationship with these contractors? >> we know that he helped at least one of them arrange a trip to libya, sort of a prospectsing trip. we knew he was in contact with them and working with them. what our reporting showed is that eventually this whole sort of group that he was working with fell apart and unraveled. and we don't believe that they ever got american permissions to >> michael, can you help us understand the context of this. how frequent do secretaries of state receive memos from outside people that are not employees? is this a normal practice and what are the ethical lines here that were possibly blurred? >> well, my guess is that if

you're secretary of state and you have friends, people send you different things. like we all get different things, different tips or whatever. this was different, though. this was a systemic sending of memos that read as if they're cia cables. they are addressed directly to her. they are consistent, usually about three pages long. and they came fairly frequently. actually more frequently after the benghazi attacks any guess that was in september of 2012. so this is a little different than, hey, this is what i heard, i'm just kind of passing it it along. this was a real sort of -- not a program, but there was a real consistent thing. they just went on and on and on. >> and as it seems like so many things we're finding these days from these "new york times" reports, there is always a dollar sign attached somewhere.j a co-mingling of friendships,

state department business and money making, right? >> well, he was being paid by the foundation. he had been paid at times by david brock. remember he was told by the obama administration, sydney was, that he could not go and work at the state department. he was the one real adviser to hillary who didn't follow her there. so he didn't have a job there like the other folks that had been around her dating back to the white house. >> and these memos what i was getting at, these memos that he was passing along, he was passing along from people that he was hoping to make money from, right? >> at least they were trying to. >> they were trying to use him to make money with hillary. so they would use sydney blumenthal to pass their information on to hillary. >> correct. and there were favorable characterizations of one of the libyan officials they were trying to get business with. and it's not clear what the state department knew about will

this. it doesn't appear that anyone outside of jake sullivan and hillary clinton knew that sydney blumenthal was the one passing this information. i don't think chris stevens who is this libya getting these e-mails knew they were coming from sydney blumenthal because they were essentially giving him anonymity as they were forwarding his information along. >> all right. thank you. good to have you back on the show. coming up next we have the must read opinion pages. also ahead, former cai and nsa director michael hayden, former defense secretary robert gates.

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it's 32 past the hour. joining us now for the must read opinion pages in washington msnbc political analyst eugene robinson robinson. >> gene, help us out. fall of ramadi exposes obama's weak islamic state strategy. it's been apparent for some time that the united states likes the strategy to fulfill president obama's pledge to ultimately destroy the islamic state since it has no plan to root up the terrorist base in syria. there was hope, though, that mr. obama's half measures must be enough to blunt the advances in iraq leaving the syria problem for the next u.s. president. with a stunning fall of ramadi

on sunday, even modest optimism is questionable. every conflict will have its ups and downs and this administration spokesman said on monday whether it's mr. obama's unwillingness to match means to strategy, that threatens to prolong this war. gene robinson, what do you say to your own newspaper's editorial page? >> well i think you're right in that that the strategy doesn't seem to be working. we come at it from slightly different directions. >> what is the strategy? >> the strategy is supposed to be we're supposed to use these air strikes and then we'll train up the iraqi army which is not apparently an army at all because it collapses if you say boo. so, you know, i don't think -- the strategy is i believe what the editor kralial page is arguing is is that we should put more

resources where our mouths are and actually go after this strategy. my point of view would be how are we ever going to train up the iraqi army. >> we're not. we were just talking about it. they collapse whether nation states are fighting against them they collapse whether terror groups are fighting against them. they collapse. there is no unified iraqi army and there never has been. >> no there is not. there was under saddam hussein, but that was then and this is now. there is not now. and in fact if ramadi is going to be taken back, it will be taken back by the shiite militia supported by iran. so we will once again be fighting on the side of iran except we won't acknowledge that because we're not supposed to be fighting on the same side as iran. it just doesn't make any sense to me what we're doing now. and so i think i certainly agree with our editorial board that

what we're doing now doesn't work and we need to figure something else out or get out of this situation. >> let's read from byron york, he says team jeb, he's held to a different story than hillary turning to politics now. it's literally impossible imagining clinton making herself available to the press the way bush has. the 13 questions clinton has taken over the course of a month, one of which is how are you liking iowa tell the public nearly nothing about her her campaign or any issue of the moment. clinton is under increasing pressure from the press. but the fact is she is getting away with it. so, yes bush had difficulties answering the straightforward question about iraq. but voters and journalists, too, should remember that it only happened because he's out there. making himself available every day. when is the democratic frontrunner going to do the same? and i guess if you guys have

media strategists hats on and know enough about it, i'm just wondering, gene or joe do these -- is it smart of her, to these questions go away? it does seem likeç there are too mañev right now. >> she can't answer the questions. >> will they go away? >> no but the clintons are hoping that there will be a new group of scandals that there it is stragtdistract from the current scandals. so there will always be something. the difference is bush is running against 47 people. hillary is basically running unopposed. so the strategy makes a lot of sense. jeb, people can complain that jeb is out there answering questions, but his standard is not hillary, his standard is rubio, walker ted cruz. >> that gets you good. >> jeb has been in hermetically

sealed room for the past 12 to 13 years. he's not been in the arena. and gene it's not a bad idea for jeb bush to stumble in the spring of 2015 instead of the winter of 2016. i don't see this as bad if he actually learns how to answer questions the first time. >> yeah-ç if he stumbles now,s's much better than stumbling then and maybe he can hone some absences. i frankly was surprised that he didn't have a better answer for the iraq question before going into this this because obviously somebody was going to ask it. but, no, better stumble now than then. but in terms of hillary you as someone who ran for office, it if you had the option of just cruising to a coronation and not answering questions, you'll take that option. >> actually, i wouldn't, but i have no discipline. >> you'd probably answer the questions. but she has discipline and jeb

as you said is running against 47 people and he's got to be out there every day. >> i certainly don't fault the political strategists, mike, because she has too many tough questions to answer right now. and if she got out there on the press trail and started trying to answer these question, her campaign would be over in a week. she's doing what she needs to. >> you knock on the door in the morning and you say good morning, we have a few questions that the press is demanding you answer today. e-mails, the foundation money benghazi, your speech money. should we schedule a press conference today. she's going to look at the aide and say why. there is no good answer to why. >> that would be the aide's last morning working for hillary clinton. >> yeah. there is no good reason to. >> have prepared text, have your phony town hall meetings with phony people, and lobbyists. but like they ship in lobbyists or whatever. whatever they do.

and do that. and you can make news -- they should have the discipline of what george h.w. bush did during the 8'88 campaign. i'll be the education president this week i'll be the environmentalist president this week. that's all they should do. become their message stick with it. they don't have to talk to the press, you know for a year. >> her team does not care about this issue. they just don't. if you talk on them they don't care. they kind of chuckle as everybody making such a huge deal of it. they love jeb bush going on the trail and saying she's only answered 13 questions. they say we're playing the long game doing our small events, we don't care. you made the correct point. they're not in a competitive democratic primary, there is no need to be out there. they have their strategy and they will stick to it whether you like it or not, whether the rnc likes it or not, they won't change. they don't care right now. >> all right. gene, stay with us if you can. coming up, we have former cia

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when edward snowden revealed our intelligence secrets to the world in 2013, civil liberties extremists seized that moment to advance their very own narrow agenda. they want you to think that there is a government agent listening in every time you pick up the phone or skype with your grandkids. they want you to think our intelligence community are the bad guys. straight out of the bourne identity. let's be clear. all these fears are exaggerated and ridiculous. joining us now from washington, former director of the cia and the nsa, and now principal at the chertoff group, michael hayden. and in minneapolis,

correspondent ayman mohyeldin. good to have you both. >> general no at good weekt a good week in our battle against isis. what's gone wrong? >> i think all along folks like me have understood we have the broad outlines of a strategy in iraq, not syria, but a strategy in iraq. but it's been underresourced and overregulated. it's based upon limitations probably for policy or political reasons on the american role. >> what limitations? >> well number one, joe, we have a ceiling on the number of troops. and it's kind of been directed do as much as you can within these numbers. and then within the numbers how we use the troops, they're not allowed to go forward they're not rent with the iraqi army below the brigade level. it's hard to call in air strikes when you don't have a tactical

american party forward in the front line of troops. >> what do we need to do to turn it around? >> lots of things. end some of the limitations. frankly, embrace a bit horrific. "washington post" i think had it right at the very end of their editorial when they said we run the arriving of prolonging this war which actually increases the dangers to americans. so it if we push americans further forward and i understand that's increased risk, in the long term that actually might be less risky than what we're doing now. this country back together if you have7çirp militia going this to cities like ramadi and liberating them? >> joe, i think the sad truth is this country isn't going back together at least not back together in the way that existed a decade or two decades ago. it's going to end up perhaps with one seat at the united nations. but i think it's going to be governed internally in three

separate areas, kurdistan sunnistan. >> so why dochbts we telln't we tell the kurds you fight and we'll fight for you to have the right to the country. talk to the sauddy s disauddy, saudi, egyptian you take anbar. >> i think we're reluctant. but your question about kurds is correct. i personally would double down on them. their military has the virtue of showing up when it comes to a fight. and they have been our friends in the area for decades. >> when i said that iran was going to get baghdad, i didn't mean physically but they will have influence over baghdad for years to come. there is absolutely nothing that we can do about it. mike. >> there is very little we can

do about it. general hayden, you've sort of outlined a policy that the vice president of the united states sort of described several years ago. the fracturing of iraq is evident to everyone. so you were talking about the only way we could maybe help the situation today. present day. is to implement more resources in a different perhaps stronger way. so my question to you, sir, ramadi has fallen. fallujah has fallen. mosul has fallen. it's memorial day weekend. section 60 will be crowded with the families of those already lost in iraq. nearly 50 years ago, secretary of state present secretary of state john kerry said in the is that the foreign relations committee with regard to vietnam, how do you ask the last person to die for a mistake. my question not just to you, sir, but to the official policymakers in washington is how many more american lives are we willing to risk and lose in

saving this false nation? >> mike, i understand totally. and i don't think it's about saving iraq. i think it's about the reality of a radical islamist state the size of belgium not in the middle of nowhere, but straddling the and againcient trade routes of the middle east and what that means for america's present and future not doubling dwun on a down on a bet in the past. >> obviously a big weekend in this battle against isis for the united states. what does it look like to you as far as momentum goes for isis? obviously special ops were successful in taking out a top isis leader. but why is isis spreading as quickly as they are? >> well, i wouldn't necessarily consider it that they are spreading. according to the u.s. at least they have gained some territory they have lost some territories.

what isis has did gln stratsed its ability to do over the course of the last year is withstand some of these air strikes, withstand some of the counterterrorism operations, including this one this past week. but at the same time, fighters on the ground are still able to mobilize from town to city to village and still take over territory. i think general hayden is right that there has to be some kind of recalculation to the strategy about a fr the perspective of the u.s. cannot simply rely on air strikes alone. there has to be a recalculation as to whether or not they can get arab countries to actually get boots on the ground. i think the one thing we've learned, keep in mind isis kind of shot to the international scene about a year ago when it overtook mosul around that time. and since then, what we've seen is that isis flourishes in areas of complete vacuum. and that's why we're seeing their rise in libya and presence in other countries across the middle east. wherever there is no central government, wherever there is a collapse of state institutions and authorities, isis tends to

get a foot hold. and that is one of the most importance lessons for the united states when it surveys the middle east and tries to prevent another country like yemen from collapsing. >> all right. thank you. he's working on a story about isis recruitment later in the week. and coming up, bob gates joins us ahead on "morning joe." you total your brand new car. nobody's hurt,but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do, drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement, we'll replace the full value of your car. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. what do you think of when you think of the united states postal service? exactly.

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54 past the hour. let's take a look at some of the morning papers. dallas morning news, 170 accused biker gang members accused in sunday's melee have been charged in engaging in organized crime. nine people were left dead and authorities in waco say they expect in gang members to face capital murder charge which is can carry the death penalty. after speaking with witnesses yesterday, police told the dallas morning news a dispute over a restaurant parking spot may have been what sparked the violence in the first praise. >> place. sglun believable. >> and ukraine claims to have captured between russian soldiers apz plans to prosecute them for, quote terrorist acts. ukrahíe is pointing to their capture as evidence ofje russia's direct involvement supporting separatists. both are accused of killing

ukrainian troops during the conflicts in the eastern part of the country. russia maintains that it has no active military involvement there and nobody believes that. >> "los angeles times," american college of physicians says americans get more cancer screening tests than they actually need. the study doesn't discourage screening, but offers new guidelines. according to the medical group roughly six in ten adults received more coal lops on cop pis than needed and 69% of women have had their cervix removed and still getting tested for cervical cancer. which makes no sense. still ahead, much more ahead on "morning joe." former defense secretary robert gates will be here and republican senator tim scott will join us as well. plus tomorrow night the series finale of modern family and eric stonestreet will join us with a sneak peek. (music)

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this can happen in any state, any town across our united states. >> 170 bikers are being held, each on a million dollars bail. >> they're not here to drink beer and eat barbecue. they came with violence in mind. >> when you match courage with compassion outstanding things can begin to happen. >> president obama banned the federal government from give something types of military equipment to local police. >> we've seen how militarized

gear can sometimes give people a feeling like there is an occupying force. >> there is no denying that this is a setback. >> the retreat from ramadi was fast and humiliating. >> i think they may be able to take ramadi back but the sunnis will never reconcile and that will mean a lot more blood letting. >> we also have to address the unaccountable dark money in politics. >> e-mails from hillary clinton will be released starting on january 15 of next year. >> sydney blumenthal wrote memos on libya. >> about ifthis was different, this was a systemic sending of memos that read as if they're cia cables. >> welcome back to "morning joe." joining the conversation, president and founder and editor

at large for time magazine ian bremer author of the new book super power, three choices for america's role in the world. >> you have three choices. indispensable america, money ball america, or independent america? i said i, too, am pat buchanan. >> oh, lord. >> pat i'm shur is watching and is very proud of you. took you a long time. >> i think independent america leads to indispensable america far more than has been happening in the last two or three years. >> there may be truth in that. the question is it's easy in election time to wrap yourself in the flag and say we want to be tougher. john mccain certainly has a lot of countries he'd like to bomb. but that's very different from actually sayingç how do we respond in ramadi. what are we going to do in syria. i saw last week you had former head of the cia with his new

book saying we don't have a strategy in in syria and you asked him what do you want to do. and he said i don't know, something. something didn't work. if you're going to set red lines and you want to make the world safe for democracy, if you want to be the world's policeman, you actually have to spend the money, the lives, have the strategy to follow through. >> we'll get more into this in a little bit. i think i'm more of a money ball america guy. >> define that. >> you pick your keen areas of interest and focus only when you have to absolutely protect national interests. but we'll talk about that. >> we'll start overseas amid growing concerns over the spread of islamic militants. isis now has an operational presence in libya and is regularly sending money and fighters there. the goal is to make the country its african hub. it comes as martin dempseyed a mets that the fall of ramadi is a setback, but also leadsing to

new questions about the united states strategy to defeat isis. bill neely has more. >> reporter: the retreat from ramadi was fast and humiliating. iraqi troops and dozens of armored vehicles in a race for their lives. forcing them out, isis fighters who shot this propaganda video showing a city abandoned by the army, isis gunmen controlling the hospital in the city center. iraqi troops fought for just two days leaving behind american supplied weapons and tanks. but it's a setback for the u.s. a decade ago, nbc news was in ramadi where hundreds of american troops gave their lives to hold the city. today ramadi is held by the world's biggest terror group and it will be tough to retake. >> it is possible to have the kind of attack we've seen in ramadi ramadi, but i'm confident in the days ahead that will be

reversed. >> but u.s. air strikes have pounded isis positions around ramadi for weeks. it didn't work. air power has its limits. >> fall of ramadi, i mean, it's 04 huge. >> reporter: critics like senator john mccain are calling for u.s. boots on the ground which the obama administration has so far ruled out. both the u.s. and iraq will now rely on shiite militias to retake the sunni city of ramadi. they helped gain tikrit, but they are backed by iran. its influence is growing. iraqi officials say isis or dash oig will be beaten. >> no one here believes that dash oig will survive in iraq for much longer. >> reporter: but isis is pushing toward the capital bag dad. with u.s. warplanes and iraqi troops struggling to get it. >> i think wire looking at the

grand failure of two presidents. george w. bush in 2003 tragically launching the iraq war. basically putting a ham every down in the ground and having ants scatter. saddam hussein as evil as he was, he maintained order in that region. too much blood to restore order. order was restored. 2009, 2010, order was restored. and that was -- if you want to go with what ian is talking about, that was grmg w. busheorge w. bush seeing us as indispensable america. >> that's right. >> opposite extreme, barack obama in 2010 getting out there have and leaving fairly rapidly, not leaving behind a residual

force. he was warned time and time again by people that mainstream media loves to mock and said that he was going to bring chaos there. he was more of an independent america type of guy. >> right. >> and that vacuum was created. second time in nine years a vacuum was created in iraq. and together, these two presidents together have helped create this reality this force that barack obama called a jv team. and right now that jv team is posing a grave threat not only to iraq but the entire middle east. and sooner or later if he we don't take care of it america. >> one of the challenges the united states has as not only the world's only super power but also a democracy, you have one president that sets a strategy and it's a long term strategy, and another president that can undo it. and even though there were massive problems with what bush did and didn't do on the ground

in iraq, obama came in very much viewed these as legacy problems that he didn't want to deal with, he wasn't elected to be a foreign policy president and we've seen and you look at what happened with the gulf states in the last week, when is the last time in history you had the american president invite some significant allies to come to washington, four out of six don't bother to show up the week before. that's a direct response not just to the iran deal it's to a feeling that the united states is not a committed ally on the ground in this part of the world or many others. >> so what are our choices at this point? have we lived through some of these? >> i think we have. and they're three very different choices. one thing that is interesting is that foreign policy for the united states right now is obama's weakest suit. everyone understands end lindsey graham is announcing you're running for foreign policy reason you know there are problems. the three that i put out there, one is indispensable. we may not want to be the world's policemen but if we don't do it no one else

whether. not the chinese, not the saudi not german, not the brits. so as a consequence you'll see so much more instability, refugee, terrorist organizations will grow, the rest. and then you have money ball america -- >> first, john mccain -- >> marco rubio is moving in that direction. money ball america where you say -- you remember billy beane and michael lewis on the oakland as. you say, looks, this isn't about promoting democracy. stop with all of the american values. you're not going to make the world safe for human rights. >> it's not a wilsonian approach. george w. bush says he's going to rid tyranny from all four corners of the globe. money ball approach is more of a colin powell approach? >> money ball you're really trying to run the country as a company. you say we have the most successful companies in theç world. why can't we have that approach with the u.s. government. so focus really on those issues

that actually will really get a return for the american dollar. so stop doing so much in the middle east. if the european allies aren't committed to nato, why will we pour a lot into it. but asia is where our allies really need this long term. china is principal protagonist. do a real pivot. when you pivot, you take your foot off one place, you put it on someplace else. the russia reset at the time may have made sense in that context. though very hard to do. >> and independent america? >> that says actually you can set as many red lines as you want but if you're not prepared to live up to them long term, this will fail for you and everybody else. so much better to admit not going to focus on these international entanglements. >> more of a rand paul approach? >> more of a rand paul approach and it also focusing in leading by example. in other words, don't demand respect, command respect. 4 million syrian refugee, we've

accepted 355. it's as if it doeso7t even exist hose word those words written on that plaque. >> how do you implement any one of these strategies in a practical matter when dealing with iraq and syria for example? if you solve iraq you've still got isis in syria. you've still got the sort of jihadist in the middle of the middle east. how do you then execute a pivot to asia or even deal with isis in syria? what did you do there? it just seems to me that the theoretical framework is fascinating, with butbut how do you implement it on the ground. >> that's the question that should be asked of the presidential candidates. if you're saying you want to do much more than obama you have to actually say what are you going to do to either remove assad or create stability on the ground in syria. you will either engage with him or you'll have to actually put

real forces on the ground. that seems to be a nonstarter for a lot of candidates right now. they're not willing on talk about it. so indispensable does not seem be to be the approach that many presidential candidates are prepared to actually live up to in specifics than they are in theory. on the other hand, you look at how bad isis is in the middle east the fact of the matter is iraq is falling apart. it's producing more oil than at any point in the last 35 years and we're feeling that at the pump in the united states right now. isis is an enormous threat in terms of refugee as terrorist attacks, it's making a lot of countries in the region fall apart.as, terrorist attacks, it's making a lot of countries in the region fall apart.s, terrorist attacks, it's making a lot of countries in the region fall apart. it's not such a problem for the united states. you could also take the approach that says why are you doing this stuff. i mean if the saudis are so concerned, shouldn't they be willing to have their own forces on the ground and not just pay for the americans to do it or tell the americans to do or show some peak that the americans rpts doing aren't doing it. so the questions need to be answered a hell of a lot better

than they were with obama versus romney in 2012. 90 minutes of our lives that collectively we will never get back. >> and when you look at the last six years, you can identify positive advancements in u.s. foreign policy in any area right now? >> sure i can. i mean i would say tactical, not strategic. you look at cuba, you had an opportunity there because the venezuelans could only balance the budget if oil was at $162 a barrel. they fell apart. who no one else would support cuba. we picked that up and that's a big win. frankly, if the united states gets the iran deal done i wouldn't say it's a great deal, i wouldn't say the iran i can't bes necessarily will live up to it but nonetheless it would be a win for u.s. multilateral diplomacy if they can get the p5+1 together with the americans to actually have a breakthrough with iranians. transpacific partnership, if congress votes through, would be the largest multilateral trade deal americans would have done in decades.

40% of world gdp. so there are some wins. but most unnerves me, not that americans don't like obama on foreign policies, if you talk to our key ally they will tell you we don't know what you stand for. we don't know what you want. we don't know if you're committed to us. and they are hedging all over the map. when the brits tell us, no we're going to join china's asian infrastructure bank even though you told us no, even though it's direct competitor to the u.s.-led world bank, what are you going to do about it. when netanyahu comes toç washington and lectures us aftero/ obama tells uss himhim not to. and the joint exercises in the sea? america is not used to this. our country is not in decline but our foreign policy sure the hell is. >> turning to other news, mike a, the "new york times" has a couple of stories i want to pass

by you. the first by neal irwin. wall street puts crisis behind it and profits. more mergers and acquisitions this year, salaries going up -- >> their salaries. >> i know. wall street is doing extra ordinarily well. and then look at the front page of business day, andrew ross sorkin who wrote too big to fail is talking about how wall street is still untamed. a new study shows people making over $500,000, one in three say they see wrong doing going on at work all the time. too big to fail has gotten bigger. and is itç looks as if we've learned absolutely nothing from the mistakes of 2008. >> if you look at the bowels of the dodd-frank act, it did help further regulate an already really terrifically

overregulated industry. the financial services industry. in one sense. the big banks are really overregulated. they're not overregulated, they're regulated. but andrew i haven't read his whole story, but hedge funds are largely unregulated. there are enormous amounts of money being made, some of it is a scam. no doubt about it. some of the hedge fund guys they don't pay taxes. they don't pay the same share of taxes that we do. >> they get breaks written in the tax code. >> but they're largely untouched by the dodd-frank regulations. which clearly applies to the big banks. ought to apply to the big banks even more. big banks got away with an enormous amount of thiefry prior 2008. but dodd-frank doesn't apply to hedge fun@ >> big banks are bigger than before and hedge funds as andrew

talking about still running amuk. this is an opportunity for democrats and republicans in 2016 to go out and not only take on big government and infect difference government, but also take on the big banks take on the big hedge funds. >> anybody going to be a spokesperson for that this year? >> no. >> is there anyone running? >> bernie sanders is making this an issue. coming up on "morning joe," the theory that the fbi has thousand rulednow ruled out in the deadly amtrak derailment in philadelphia. >> i heard you yesterday. you're upset. you can believe they had the technology and they didn't apply it. >> >> only after people die. >> i said before there was terrible mismanagement there. wow. that is negligent. >> but first before we talk about that, we have former

defense secretary be robert gates joining the table. why he says none of the 2016 hopefuls are impressing o far. he's not alone. success starts with the right connections. introducing miracle-gro liquafeed universal feeder. turn any hose connection into a clever feeding system for a well-fed garden. miracle-gro. life starts here.

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i think all along folks like me have understood we have the broad outlines of a strategy in iraq not in syria but a strategy in iraq. but it's been underresourced and overregulated. it's not effects based. it's based upon limitations probably for policy or political reasons on the american role. you think the sad truth is this country isn't going back together, at least not back together in the way that existed a decade or two decades ago. >> that was former ci achlt director michael hayden earlier on "morning joe." joining us now, former defense secretary robert gates. his book, duty is now out in paper book and it's. >> to seegood to see you. no neck brace.

now we'll talk politics. nobody is impressing you yet? >> well i think that, first of all, particularly on the republican side, most of them have not been in jobs that required them to know anything or be involved in foreign policy. a couple have been in the senate two or three years. so my hope is that as the campaigns unfold and as time goes along they will flush out their views and we'll see something impressive. on the democratic side i'm sorry that secretary clinton has not come out in favor of the trade agreements. and so i basically what i've said is that i'm not seeing a lot of courage out there and i'm seeing a lot of ver]ç simple solutions to shall very tough problems. >> you have said that hillary clinton was a good secretary of state but using the privatevery tough problems. >> you have said that hillary clinton was a good secretary of state but using the private e-mail was a risky way to do

business. why risky? >> well, i never used e-mail for business. first of all, it was basically in its infancy when i was director of cia, but i was afraid somebody would send me an e-mail and say if i don't hear from in you a couple of hours i'm going to go do something and i'd be in a four hour hearing. so i always thought when it came to public business, having a piece of paper with my signature on it was the way to do business. >> are you concerned about the new trend talking about presidential politics and barack obama started it, but now a lot of republicans who get elected to the senate and a few years later they're running for president without any idea of how foreign policy works but how importantly, without any idea of the interplay between the white house and congress and agencies that are necessary to make our gk )nment run

effectively? >> i'm not sure i ever met as-ñ senator who didn't think he or she was qualified to be president of the united states. >> usually they had about 20 years under their belt. >> unfortunately some were brand nuew. at one point president obama was talking in the oval office with me about the long list of problems and i said so tell me again why you wanted this job. i think that there is not full appreciation of just how tough it is. most folks don't understand that by the time the president makes a decision to make, all got options are off the table. if there is a good option somebody at the lower level has made the decision and taken credit for it. so most of the time the president has the opportunity to choose the least bad option in a variety of circumstances.

>> the president doesn't have a lot of good options on the table for isis either. a group that he called a jv team that many people believe have rich up out of the void that was created in 2011 when troops left. what does he do now? it. >> first of all it's important to step back and see first of all, that isis grew out of the syrian civil war and out of prime minister maliki's bad policies. particularly toward the sunnis in iraq. >> can i ask you about maliki? we had a chance to actually get behind someone else who wanted the united states to possibly stay in iraq. david ignatius was talking about this. why between we embrace maliki is this. >> the irony at the beginning was that we embraced him because he was weak. we thought he would have to rely on all the different elements of

the iraqi pollity. and what he turned out to be was very authoritarian and very sectarian. and we were able to receiver as a break on that as long as we had a significant presence in the country. but once we were gone, he basically was free to be what he really was. and i think ht contributed significantly. i think part of the problem is is that we need to understand that the whole middle east is likely to be an area of turbulence and violence for as far into the future as we can see. sunni versus shia authoritarians versus reformer secularists versus islamists. whether these artificially created countries like syria, libya, and iraq can comprise of historically adversarial groups can survive without authoritarian or repressive government or whether they go the way of ub fy of yugoslavia.

but we'll see a lot of trouble in the middle east i think for a long time to come. >> tito obviously not a wonderful man, but yugoslavia was stable. let me ask you the difficult question. was the middle east more stable and was the united states in a better position when saddam hussein, moammar gadhafi and mubarak were running their countries? >> well, i think getting into these what might have beens is not a very productive exercise. >> you'reç sounding like jeb right now. >> no, because i think that he made a mistake in the way he answered that question. the right answer in my view is not what would you have done had you been there because nobody knows, nobody knows who his advisers would be, whether somebody else would have looked at the intel gechbs differently. what is important are what are the lessons that you learned from the mistakes that were made and where do we go from here. one of those lessons it seems to me we overestimate our ability to shape events there.

another lesson is that law of unintended consequences is always present especially in the middle east. so i think those are the kinds of lessons we need to learn. >> so the american interests in the region are of course changing on the one hand it's getting more challenging to actually find the people that you can work with over the long term. on the other hand, the energy situation in terms of the united states no longer is critical. do you thinks american american policy needs to evolve dramatically and what would you suggest? >> first of all, i think that we don't have -- given the environment that i think we'll face in the middle east, in-the first thing is we don't have a strategy at all. we're basically sort of playing this day to day. and i think our interests remain important in the middle east. the truth is there have been a lot of books written about our oil, our interest in oil and so on. i sat in the situation room for several decades and on every time we intervened, oil was not

the reason. >> right. >> it was strategic consequences, it was early on it was the soviet union, then iran. so there have been other reasons than oil and i think our interests are enduring, but we certainly don't have a strategy. >> mr. secretary, you've had some harsh observations of vice president biden in the past with regard to iraq. we had general hayden on earlier and he virtually espoused vice president biden's suggestion several years ago that iraq should be just split up and you perhaps alluded that iraq breaking up. with a what do you think would be best now? >> going back to what i said, i have big concerns about unintended consequences. i heard people talking about let's say in kurdistan. an independent kurdistan. the problem with that is it creates a huge problem for the

turks as well as for the iraqis. the kurds are involved in all these countries. syria, turkey, iran, iraq. and once you move in that direction, you begin to have destabilizing effects in other places particularly in turkey. if it begins to fall apart, guess who will be the most significant player in the southern half of iraq? it will be iran. and so you further empower iran if iraq begins to fall apart. so the question is -- and i wish i had a good answer. i'd write an op-ed or something in terms of how do you prevent that where do you move next. but we do need to stand back and i think identify what are our long term interests in the region and how do we proceed. my own view is you don't walk away from the people that you counted as your friends and allies for several decades. the question is how should those relationships evolve. >> that relationship in turkey

in particular has evolved poorly over the past five years. five years ago, dr. burzynski wrote a book talking about how turkey was our key ally. five years later that relationship has fallen apart. at what point do we make turkey stand up and deliver? either a little like apally or actually move towards helping the kurds. >> well, actually that is part of the problem. we can't make anybody do anything at this point. >> we can make them make a choice. continue moving away from the united states or be a closer ally. but if you continue to devalue our relationship then at that points we start looking at options with the kurds. >> well, i think about it you look at turkey's role in my tonato, if you look at turkey's

influence, i think for us to turn our backs on turkey or basically give them some type of ultimatum would be a serious mistake. they're one of the few stable players in the region. and we ought to be figuring out a way to work with them closer. not giving them ultimatums. >> does turkey allow u.s. -- does turkey allow us to go into syria from their country? >> i don't know whether they even have been asked. i don't know the answer to that question. >> okay. finally, richard haass wrote his last book, foreign policy begins at home he said in fact for the united states to thrive, foreign policy to thrive, we need do a lot of things. take care of debt. but he also talked about the need to move away from our obsession with the middle east.

easier said than done. but we're ignoring asia. how do we do that? >> first of all, i think you can walk and chew gum at the same time. i think you can focus on reinvestment and rebuilding here at home. stay engaged in the middle east. an himself and also have a strong game in asia. our relationships in strengthened. we've been having the first meetings of japan and south korea together. i head one when i was secretary of defense bringing together for the first time their defense ministers of those two countries. clearly china will be a challenge for us to deal with in the future. but i think you can do all those things. the notion that you can kind of turn your back on any one of these things to focus on something else is not the way the united states is going to play in the world in the future. >> is the president effectively

handling asia? >> i think we've made some good moves, but i think that when it comes to the south china sea we need to do more with our allies. the thing that makes the chinese nervous is when all the countries in the region band together in opposition. they get very nervous when you have eight or nine countries in the region all objecting to their behavior. and when we keep doing these things bilaterally, i think we play in effect to their strategy. >> i think the biggest challenge is that there is really only one country in the world right now with a global strategy and it's china. you see that very much whether it's with the bric bank or the asian bank over a trillion dollars and it looks like a marshall plan in the region and beyond. americans ss kchbt ss can't consider that sort of thing. >> robert gates, great to have

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that was a great conversation. secretary gates. >> i know. it's always -- i could listen to him for hours. cease on he's so martsmart. and you should get his book. am track facing several new lawsuits stemming from the deadly derailment in (hiladelphia. four passengers are suing over injuries sustained in the crash. claiming the company failed to install technology to control the train's speed. one of the plaintiffs nearly lost her arm and required multiple surgeries. the fbi says there is no evidence that gunfire hit the wind shield of the train before it crashed however they are still investigating if a flying object hit the train which could have distracted the train's engineer. meanwhile amtrak says an automatic braking system is now in use along the stretch of track where the derailment occurred and new speed limit for trains in the area of last week's crash has also been put in place. >> so talk about this. you said something that was really surprising to dorian and

myself. everybody was talking about, hey, we have this new advanced system coming on by the end of the year. >> right. that's a little bit more complicated. i think a little bit more expensive. >> but what is available now? >> automatic train control. >> and what does that do? >> that's been around for decades and dwek deckecades. >> you said the 1930s. >> the train is stopped if it's going too fast and there is no response. and bottom line is if you look at the history of like three major derailments, one in boston in 1990 where 70 plus people were injured and then metro north in 2013, four dead. after those two derailments fra mandated that it be put in place and it was put in place weeks later and in a few other curves as well. and then this derailment eight people are dead, again the federal government mandates that it put in and the federal

government this time says amtrak service may not be rea in-stated until automatic train control is put this place. so guess what they did? they put it in over the weekend. so not only is it inexpensive, it is easy to install. and every time they do it after there is blood on the tracks. every time. it would be nice if they actually maybe looked at all the different curves where train speed would affect a derailment and put automatic train control in before people die. that would prevent people dying. >> and here is the thing. a tragedy like this happens. and you needily have people coming out looking for et oh it's been underfunded they should have spent billions and billions more before. this was a funding issue but people jumped to that conclusion. it was terrible mismanagement. >> and federal mismanagement, too. >> and there is already a speed limit there, too.

as understand, there is a new speed limit there, but there was already a speed limit for that stretch of track. >> right. so they should have put it on there. like you said, it's cheap, inexpensive, they have the technology, why do people have to die before they take this simple cheap measure. >> whole show is about responding to crisis. whether dodd-frank infectual whether iraq. >> and as we crumble and lead from behind and follow accident and fix things after and constantly respond, we're becoming a country that is losing. >> and we're very excited about this book. >> thank you, joe. >> three choices for america's role in the world. up next, will senator tim scott endorse fellow south carolina senator lindsey graham

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we've seen how militarized gear can sometimes give people a feelifg like there is an occupying force as opposed to a force that is part of the community protecting them and serving them. it can alienate and intimidate and send the wrong message. so we will prohibit some equipment made for the battlefield that is not appropriate for the local police departments. >> that was president obama speaking in camden, new jersey yesterday on the ban of some types of military-style weapons and gear for local police forces. joining us now from capitol hill, republican senator tim scott of south carolina. later today he'll testify before the senate judiciary subcommittee on crime and terrorism regarding the use of body cameras by police officers.

very good to have you on the show. >> thank you. >> what will you be saying today about the need for body cameras? >> i think when you look at the number of incidents that have come to light because of the use of cameras it's important to at that time next step forward and figure out the funding formula that is necessary to make sure that the law enforcement agencies that need body cameras have access to the funding. what i don't want to come out of the hearing is any indication that the federal government should take over local law enforcement. but it is very important for us if possible to provide some funding when and where necessary. the fact of the matter is that when you look at the studies done, 90% drop in complaints against officers and a 60% drop in the use of force when body cameras are part of the uniform of law enforcement. >> what indications do you think are up there now that the federal government is interested in taking over local law enforcement? >> well, i'll tell you i've met

with more than two dozen groups and individuals who are very interested in engaging in the process of having body cameras. their biggest concern that i hear be sides -- >> you think body cameras are part of the federal government's government attempt to take over local law enforcement? >> some people believe that if you provide funding for body cameras, the question is what strings come attached to it. so many of the groups have asked that specific question. actually almost every group that has come in from the sheriff's association to mayors conference, attorney generals conference, all ask about the role of the local law enforcement and the role of the federal government and how do we fuse those two together. i think the answer is you don't. you provide funding and you allow local law enforcement to be in charge of local law phone respectment enforcement. >> your state is gets a lot of visits these days. you have a colleague that says

he's basically getting in to the race. are you willing to endorse behind lindsey graham? >> i've hosted a presidential town hall where i vft never single candidate into a town hall meeting one-on-one. i will continue to do so this order to do that objectively, you have to remain on the sidelines. and let each candidate have their opportunity before an audience. and then at the end of that, i may be in a position to endorse shall canned some candidate. i'm not sure which one at this point, but i'm certainly excited and looking forward to the 93 or 94 candidates who are now involved in the republican primary. >> it just keeps growing. let me ask uyou about this weekend, isis continues to be on the march. what is our best approach to stopping that march? >> yes i think we saw the very

courageous raid in syria which i thought was very effective, very impactful. i think it septembernt a very chilling message to isis. i think we have to continue to be engaged in the process of figuring out the right tactical strategy in responding to them and being proactive. i thought that was one of the best proactive moves we've seen in a very long time. i'd caution we don't want boots on the ground but we want to make sure we fight them where they are and certainly not on our soil. so we have to be very mindful of the fact that we can hopefully stop isis away from american soil and to do so we'll have to have a proactive strategy. >> senator tim scott, thank you very much. up next, more than 16 million american children are living in poverty today. how major stars like julia roberts, jennifer aniston and neil patrick harris are teaming up to change that with red noses. have you seen this? >> we have. >> the man behind it all, richard curtis, joins us next to explain.

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♪ like a red nose like a red he nose♪ >> sorry. >> that's a look at just some of the stars the a-list stars taking part in the red nose day initiative to raise awareness for poverty. joining us now, founder of comic relief and the driving force behind this project richard curtis, he's the producer of a long list of films including "four weddingings and a funeral" and "love actually." great idea. where did you get this in idea? >> i went to ethiopia in 1985 during the famine there and it was a, you know, brutal time. i noticed that the people there were still full of laughter when funny things happened. i came home and asked my friends who were comedians to do a stage show, and then we did a stage show. then we thought, why are all of us who are tv entertainers not doing a big tv show instead?

the next year we did a huge long, funny show. >> raised over $1 billion through the years. >> incredible. >> i know. it's turned into almost like a national holiday. i think 65% of schools in the united kingdom now, the kids buy the noses they go and do a fashion show or dye their hair red. it's turned into a big day of foolishness, fun, and fund-raising, and then at night there's a massive, great show as a reward. >> fund-raising's extraordinary. but the awareness side of it too, just country stops to be aware of what we want our children to be aware of. there are people that are suffering and struggling out there and in poverty. >> it's funny it is, in a strange way i care about the money, but the education is important. but i remember asking one direction if they would help us and they turned out they'd been born after i started red nose day. they actually for years and and years seen this, so they went

out to ghana, they were kind of wear of it maybe in a way. >> a red nose day dance-a-thon. >> nick cannon. for 24 hours. >> i don't think he knows what he's in for. >> does he know? >> i think he thought, i could dance, so maybe i can dance for 24 hours. we did one once in the uk and the guy was really, really bamboozled by 3:00 in the morning. >> where does the money go? >> the money's being spent 50/50. 50% here in the usa through seven really good charities working with kids in poverty, and then 50% to lots of countries abroad. for instance jack black has been to uganda to look at the life a homeless kid there, michelle rodriguez from "fast and furious" went to peru to look at 6-year-old girls who are turning bricks, go to school for two hours in the morning and come in the baking heat they work all day. >> talk about the progress you

feel you've made, some of the highlights for you. what do you feel like, hey, we're really making a difference? >> well, i do. i think it's very easy to feelç overwhelmed by the bad news sort of powerless. you think it's huge issues of economics, nationalism, and then you think, wait a minute, malaria, only costs $4. if i can get a malaria net to a family i can personally help. one year we bought 1 million malaria nets in the uk. i feel every nose that's, you know, only costs to do a malaria testing thing, only costs 50 cents. if you, for instance, working with feeding america here. >> right. >> if you give one dollar that actually buys $10 worth of food. >> wow. >> to feed a family who don't have enough food. >> joe if julia roberts coldplay julie ann moore -- >> i'm ahead of you. >> if they can do it, we can do it, too.

>> it's a great improvement for me. >> you can support red nose day by texting today at 80077 to give $10 and be sure to tune in thursday for one of the biggest nights in entertainment. that's at 8:00. >> i think it is -- there are some very funny things going to be happening. >> i like it. it is an improvement for jod> don't you think? >> it's a big improvement. boy, i'm a huge fan of yours. thank you so much. appreciate it. >> thank you.

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♪ here's another new segment it's called joe biden what? >> i had a dream that i was vice president and was with the president, and we did the disco funk dance to convince congress to restart the government. >> i love him. >> one -- wait tomorrow night's the last night, right? >> no, no, i -- i refuse to believe that. i refuse to believe that. no. i can't -- i can't begin to believe. i hope it goes well. it will go well. >> i hope -- we are not talking about biden, of course. we're talking about letterman's last night tomorrow night. biden, his -- his show runs through -- >> it keeps going. you never know. >> for a while. >> well into 2016.

>> man, dave leaving tomorrow night. i -- it's just not good. >> no. >> it's not good at all. >> it's the end of a huge portion of my life and the lives of many many other people. he's so iconic beyond disbelief. these last few shows, last two weeks, have been staggeringly great. >> yeah. >> just incredible. >> you know, obviously his hero was -- >> johnny carson. >> johnny carson. >> and everybody believed that letterman was going to replace carson except bob wright. jay leno did well for the network financially. it's interesting that johnny carson was huge and massive and had great influence -- and i absolutely loved him, i could not believe you could watch that guy every night -- it's ironic david letterman's hero, johnny carson comes second in terms of influence to what david letterman has done to the comedy

landscape since 1982. >> i think there's no doubt about that. i mean the culture's so different and has been so different through most of dave's run during -- at cbs that they symbolizes you know, there's a distance to him an irony to him, that is so just wrappe@ç up in who we are as a culture today. it's really interesting. but he's so great. he is so great. >> so, did you end up liking the "mad men" finale? >> i did. >> did anybody see? >> i did. >> did you like it. >> i did. >> really? >> i've been a "mad man" fan since the show aired serve beenven year as ago? end of an era, literally and figuratively. >> phil? >> refuse to watch it. >> okay there you go. what? >> i got into it late. i got through like half of the first season at that point, too late. >> too busy phil? >> i had important things to do, family, work. >> thank god i didn't have important things to do.

87 kids and house is burning down. no but he just crammed everything into the last episode. >> yeah. >> it's like -- it's like he forgot that he had had like seven, eight seasons. so suddenly boom, this gets resolved, boom that gets resolved. all happened very quickly. >> yeah. the structure -- >> way, too pat -- it was a great season. >> a great season. >> it was a great season. one of his best seasons i would suggest, but the last episode it's like he ran out of time. >> well, you could see him, though, as the writer you could see him sitting there thinking, i've got 1:15 for the last episode now. he goes through a series of different doors each scene is a different door. open up, that's what's going to happen to peggy. open up the other door, we resolve that, that's what's going to happen to him and her, and don himself. the ironic smirk on his face just as you fade into the coke commercial, don is going to be don going forward.

oh, don did the coke commercial! >> you know, the thing is, though, i'm sitting there with my son, 27 who did not realize what we realize we are the only two -- mika probably remembers -- remember the iconic coke commercial? >> yeah i'm that old. >> people under let's say 45 didn't get it. >> no. >> right? >> right. >> people over 45 did get it. i would say for people under 45 that may have been -- people over 45, like me thought it was too obvious. i think they should have gone to black and then played the commercial. i don't know. >> but peggy raises the coke commercial in2át phone conversation. >> final phone conversation. >> come on back, go to work for coke. >> by the way, people are wondering why abc is you know kind of jumped out front as quickly as they did on the whole stephanopoulos thing. "new york post" provides insight.

>> well one idea. >> wow. >> puts donation in a different perspective. >> if you want to know why he lost, he didn't know what the $75,000, gee did i give him $75,000 or not? maybe that's why. 105 million, i don't -- >> let's get to the news. >> salary? >> that's his salary. >> boy. >> that's his salary. abc has put all of their hon money -- yeah. >> wouldn't let him go scuba diving. holy cow. >> let's leave it. >> it's a little too late to leave it at this point, isn't it? >> we talked about it yesterday. everybody misunderstood me. >> what did they misunderstand. >> the ethical breach. i was talking about transparency in the news. it's okay to be on television if you're transparent about your world view and leans he clearly

has those, he worked for the clintons. everybody thought they could lobotomize himself. >> no, he's a liberal department. >> good news guy, good ankher. >> that is fine. what's not fine is what he did to peter schweitzer when he came on the air and played judge. it was humiliating. i mean, if you're at abc news you've got to be humiliated by the fact they did that and did not reveal he paid $75,000 to an organization, and then he's talking about the investigations they did. so, you know, but, they're not going to do anything to him. you know let's be honest if it happened at nbc and it were matt lauer, everybody's talking brian williams, if all he were doing were abc "world news tonight" he'd be gone right? face it, if matt lauer did that here everybody would be -- because that's where, you know, that's where they make the money. they don't make money on those night news shows anymore. they make it in the morning.

that's where all of the money's made. anyway, it's -- at the end of the day how surprising it comes down to money. >> so let's get to the news. we begin with the concerns about the spread of the islamic state militants. a u.s. official tells the "wall street journal" that isis now has an operational presence in libya and is regularly sending money and fighters there. my goal is to -- the goal is to make the conuntry its african hub. dempsey admits fall of ramadi is a setback for iraqi security forces but leading to questions about the united states strategy to defeat isis and what that strategy is at this point. joining us now from london nbc's chief correspondent, bill neely. how do you see the fall of ramadi impacting u.s. military policy towards isis moving forward, if it does at all? >> good morning. making -- after the fall of

ramadi, the question is how quickly can it be taken back, can it ever be taken back? john kerry said yesterday he was absolutely confident it would be retaken within days. well, now we'll have the test of that confident. there areç reports 3,000 shia militiamen are gathering at a base, ]x=u9 20 miles from ramadi with armored vehicles, and they are waiting for orders from iraq's prime minister to move in and to try to retake ramadi. i suppose the two questions really, the first one is what role, if any, does the u.s. take? there are reports that u.s. air strikes are continuing around ramadi. remember in the three days of fighting during which isis took ramadi there were 19 u.s. air strikes, there were dozens around ramadi in the weeks before that and it didn't stop isis doing its business. so, what -- how effective can u.s. air strikes be? secondly, does the u.s. really want to be the advanced air

guard, if you like, for iranian-backed militias who might retake this city. we visited this question six weeks ago over tikrit. the do the iraqis themselves have the will, the manpower and the leadership not just to retake ramadi but what about mosul? we heard that there might be some kind of campaign against the city of mosul which isis has had for the last year. some time this summer, that looks more and more distant. it seems isis took ramadi with a few hundred soldiers but it will be very tough block by block to take that city back. al abadi be's accuse of failure being weak. for him, the following days and the next week not just for john kerry's talk of confidence, this will be a real test. both for the u.s. and for the

iraqi prime minister. mika? >> bill you're sitting in the studio obviously in london. i may have graduated from the university of alabama but i can read those letters behind you. and just help us out because we're talking about isis spreading across the middle east, we're talking about what the united states is supposed to do. at the same time, there was an election obviously, in great britain where they -- talked about cutting their defense budget. what do the newspapers look like this morning in london? are londoners concerned about the spread of isis? do they just assume the united states is going to keep going and dying for the rest of the world or that we're going to keep paying our tax dollars? there's some of that is are getting more and more agitated that we're supposed to be the guarantors of peace across the world what happen are they saying in london? what about paris?

what about madrid? across europe? what's their role? >> well, of course, iraq was a hugely divisive issue in 2003. >> right. >> across europe. britain, of course, was the junior partner of the united states and we are reminded regularly here in the uk that britain failed in iraq. in france and germany russia, of course, they took a different view of the iraq war. many in paris and berlin shrug their shoulders and say you're seeing now what a disastrous decision that was in 2003. >> democrats are doing that too, over here even some republicans are talking. but it's 2015. what are we going to do about the spread of isis? i'm ron derwondering is the united states going to play cleanup? >> british warplanes are involved in iraq for example, but only in a very minor role.

i mean you're talking about one air strike every few days. and british warplanes are not involved in tackling isis in syria. i think the lessons of the iraq war still reverberate and one of them being said openly here and across europe that is you cannot win the war against isis with air strikes alone. you can't win it from 30,000 feet. and also we look at the disaster of the iraqi army, britain like the united states had hundreds, if not thousands of trainers training the iraqi army and building it up with armored vehicles. it is said that there are now only five brigades of the iraqi army that are combat effective. that's 15000 troops maximum. it's already said that isis has that many men and more who are not just battle hardened but every single one of hem, it would seem are willing to die. i think here, and in washington

and in berlin and paris, you know, there is real concern that the strategy if we can call it that to combat isis in iraq and syria, simply isn't working at the minute. >> all right. bill neely, we love having you on. thank you for reporting to us again this morning. >> mutual. so, dorian, 1991, we all heard reports that the iraqi army was the fourth largest in the world and the united states was going to face the fight of their lives. and they just dissolved like sugar in hot water. 2003 the same thing, right? we had all of the suits ready, we were surely -- sure to face, you know chemical warfare many americans were going to die. we particular. ed marched in 2014 2015 they dissolve again. why can't we admit it there is no iraqi army? they've never been able to do anything effectively whatsoever

and now we're left with an absolute blank slate. and i can't believe the united states harç to carry the world security on their shoulders here. >> it is a different world from 1991 to say 2014, 2015. even from 2003 in one crucial way, the stateless forces isis, al qaeda that have arisen in that void between those years some in 1991 we had, you know, a state versus another state. >> right. >> now look what scholars call a asymmetric warfare, where you have stateless groups who are muddying watered in terms how we imagine going to war. so the iraqi army yes has totally collapsed against an army a militia that is not -- >> that's not even a state. >> it's not even a state. we keep hearing politicians in washington talk about we've got to train the iraqi army, you know? why don't you pick a kindergarten out somewhere in the tri-state area, you know, train them to do something?

these people have been colossal failure time and time again. >> the irony, of course some of isis' top leaders are actually some of the top generals from saddam hussein's baathist regime now. the failures f the iraqi military, the few positive people from in terms of military strategy, are now on the isis side. >> that's right. >> the most effective people. i think what's really disconcerting about this if there's one area where american officials were honest about the process, rebuilding the iraqi army but was we going to take a long time. the way it dissolved was catastrophic on some level. what they've been left with is really nothing and the response is to send shia militias into a sunni area where is only going to exacerbate the issue and make the local sunni population equally as likely decide with isis as the shia militias coming in. the hope always was that sunni countries around who would be able to send in and provide ground force there's, that hasn't happened. nobody's come in to fill that

vacuum. it's a huge problem. still ahead on "morning joe" a new report questions the influence of a top clinton ally. the state department wants to release tens of thousands of e-mails next year. plus -- new details emerge in the deadly biker brawl in texas. what police are saying may have sparked the massive chaos there. but first -- bill karins with eight look at the forecast. bill? >> keeping it in texas, this time tracking severe storms yesterday. we had a lot of large hail reported. texas, one or two tornadoes. enough hail the people looked like they had to put the plow on the truck. golf ball-sized hail. coverage was impressive. that's not what you want to be driving through. the northeast this morning haven't talked about a lot of rain in the northeast in a while. nothing too heavy. but it'sespecially hartford to providence, showers are more

intense, drenching you, crossing 84, 395. okay along the coast. spotty showers. this will be round one, we'll get another round later this afternoon. maybe a few storms we'll have small hail themselves. worst weather by far overnight friends in san angelo, texas, 4 1/2 inches of rain. to put that into perspective san francisco's had less than four inches of rain all year to this point and they had that much last night. that's bad for both areas. san angeles cleared out. shield of heavy rain. not fun commute in colorado, snowing in the mountains very high peaks but drenching rain from denver to pueblo drive up interstate 25. õlash floods. should break the rainfall for month in lubbock. 25 windchill in %aduluth. 22 in marquette. chicago's not better at 41. a little bit of everything across the maps but nothing's that life threatening, it doesn't appear. a shot of a foggy new york city, that means airport delays than

should clear up with a chance of storms this afternoon, big apple. you're watching "morning joe" we'll be right back. ideas come into this world ugly and messy. they are the natural born enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful.

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♪ >> the polls in new jersey right now say by a 65-29% margin the new jersey voters say you would not make a good president. they know you the best. why shouldn't we trust them? >> they want me to stay. a lot of people in the 65% want me to stay, and i've heard that from lots of people at town hall meetings, don't believe because we want you to stay. >> they say you would not make a good president. >> they hear the question they want to hear. >> chris christie talking about his potential there, new jersey voters. also new, the trove of

private e-mails that hillary clinton turned over last december may not be available until january of 2016. in a court filing, the state department said it will take the rest of the year to review the 55,000 pages of e-mails that clinton turned over from her private server. the department says that 12 full-time staffers have been assigned to the project. this as "the new york times" reports that the congressional committee investigating the 2012 attacks in benghazi will subpoena a longtime clinton ally for a private transcribed interview. sidney blumenthal was not an employee of clinton's state department, instead working for the clinton foundation as he wrote memos on libya to the secretary. the paper reports much of the information appears to have come from a group of business associates he was advising as they sought to win contracts from the libyan transitional government. >> all right. so sidney blumenthal was trying to make money from libya and so

his business associates that wanted to make money from libya were giving him information. >> or maybe -- >> and "the times" is reporting he sent that on to the secretary of state. >> maybe she had insight that was useful. clinton appeared to take blumenthal blumenthal's advice seriously, forwarding memos to top officials. >> well, let's go to washington right now "new york times" reporter who broke this story the always -- he's just a troublemaker. >> michael. >> michael schmidt. we were -- a lot of people reading the story this morning and talking about how she was passing along this advice to top people in the state department despite the fact they kept telling her what genuinely bad advice it was. tell us about it. >> what would happen is she would take blumenthal's memos, write him back, say, thanks, appreciate it and would send them to jake sullivan, her well-regarded foreign policy

adviser. he would copy the text and then forward to different people at state. he would forward it to chris stevens. forward it to the ambassador to libya before stevens and he would get their reactions to it. he would say it came from an hrc contact or hrc friend. they would write back and say, hey, some of this makes sense, some doesn't make sense, this is wrong, this is right. and those responses would be sent to the secretary for her to consume and for her to see if there was any there there to what sidney was sending her. >> michael, the root of this, though, the root of the blumenthal relationship with hillary, the other side of it, sidney blumenthal's relstionship was with whom? certain people who wanted to do business with libya as libya was imploding? >> well, i mean, what was going on is that he had these relationships with american contractors, former cia, american businessmen that were trying to get in on the sort of

the bottom ground there of the -- what was going to be the new libyan government, what were the rebels going to be doing did they need to be trained did they need help with infrastructure, those type of things. it looks like those group of business guys were producing this information that he was then using to send to the secretary. >> do we know whether sidney blumenthal had any sort of business relationship with these contractors? >> we know that he helped them -- at least one of them arrange a trip to libya, thats and a prospecting trip. we knew he was in contact with them working with them. but what our reporting showed that is eventually this whole sort of group that he was working with unravelled and we don't believe they ever got american permissions to actually do business there in libya. >> dorian. >> cin you help us understand the context of this. how frequent do secretaries of state receive memos from outside

people that are not employees? is this a normal practice? and what are the ethical lines here that were possibly blurred? >> ply guess is that if you're secretary of state and you have friends, people send you different things, like we all get different things, different tips or whatever. this was differ those. this was a systemic sending of memos that read as if they're cia cables. they are addressed directly to her, they are consistent, usually three pages long, and they came fairly frequently. actually more frequently after the benghazi attacks in i guess that was in september of 2012. so this is a little different than, hey, this is what i heard, i'm kind of passing along. this was -- this was a real sort of not a program but there was a real consistent thing. they kind of went on and on and on and on. >> as it seems like so many things we're finding these days from "the new york times" reports, there's always a dollar

sign attached somewhere commingling of4efriendships, state department business, and money making right? >> well he was on the -- he was being paid by the foundation. he had been paid at times by david brock. remember, he was told by the obama administration sidney was, that he could not work at the state department. he was the one real adviser to hillary who didn't follow her there. so he didn't have a job there like the other folks that had been around her dating back to the white house. >> and michael, these memos, what i was getting at these memos that he's passing along, he was passing along from people that he was helping to make money from right? >> at least they were trying to. >> trying to use him to make money with hillary so this group that wanted to make money in libya while it was blowing up would use sidney blumenthal to pass their information on to hillary? >> correct. there was also favorable characterizations of one of

these libyan officials they were trying to get business with. it's not clear what the state department knew about this. certainly doesn't appear underoutside of the state department knew that sidney blumenthal was the one passing this information. i don't think chris stevens getting the e-mails knew they were coming from sidney blumenthal because they were giving him anonymity as they were forwarding his information along. >> thank you. can racism be stopped in third grade? we'll look eight controversial program in one school that has some parents outraged. also ahead this hour from "modern family," emmy-award winner eric stonestreet will be here. "morning joe" is back in a moment. to play in idaho? gotta get milwaukee up to speed. we win in flint, we take the lead. we'll close the deal if we just show...

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♪ at 34 past the hour we turn now to waco texas where 170 rival motorcycle gang members were charged yesterday with engaging in organized crime in connection with sunday's deadly bar brawl and shoot-out that left nine dead and 18 wounded. nbc's miguel almaguer is in waco and joins us with the latest. what do we know about the five gangs s'volved? >> reporter: good morning. yeah investigators say those five gangs were involved here with more than 200 gang members inside the restaurant behind me. this morning police say they are

concerned, many of those gang members and others associated with them, may be targeting their officers out on the streets. with nine killed and 18 wounded in the gruesome lunchtime brawl, this morning 170 suspects, all said to be members of rival motorcycle gangs, are in jail, charged with engaging in organized crime. the vicious attack at this popular strip mall packed with police was so brazen, some call the outlaws domestic terrorists. >> they may not be book smart but these guys have their ph.d.s in violence and intimidation. >> reporter: jay dobbins, a retired special agent who went deep undercover to infiltrate hells angels says a bloodbath like sunday's is destined to happen when five motorcycle gangs cross paths. >> it's all about colors how they look, where you're at, do you have permission to be there.

it's a nasty, dirty vomist-covered existence. >> reporter: more outlaws said to be on their way here so the called bandidos gang has the deepest roots in waco. sunday's showdown was said to involve a rumble with cossacks who often battle with the bandidos over turf in texas, to the west the hells angels notorious, while the outlaws have a heavy presence in the midwest and south. as the pagans thrive in the east. the gangs can number in the thousands. >> like any criminal organization, it's about money, it's about control. you probably haven't seen the end of it. >> all right. that was miguel almaguer with that report for us. coming up -- can separating 8-year-old students by race actually help stop racism? we'll look at one school's controversial program when we come back.

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so here's the question if you take a bunch of 8-year-olds and separate them by race and have them discuss their identities can we solve racism? one private school thinks so and it's the cover story of this week's "new york" magazine. lisa miller wrote the piece and joins us along with psychologist dr. jeff gardere author of "smart parenting for african-americans helping your kids thrive in a difficult world." >> the bombshell question, how does segregation -- >> yeah. isn't that what it is. >> -- help teachmñ racial sensitivity? >> it's dividing kids by race, in the broadist definitioning

first of all, how did you even cover this story? >> a bun. of parents are very upset about the program and feel that you know they should be imparting racial and ethnic identity to their children, it is not the school's job, that children shouldn't be separated by race, that it is not our liberal values. our liberal values are to mix altogether and be friends, which is something the school does very well already. the school is half minority kids and so it's very small, and so

these little children form these very deep friendships with kids of other races and a lot of the parents feel like -- >> what do you need to mess with that?ç >> it's innocent. it's beautiful. it's happening. why separate? >> is it more important for the black students to actually have the conversation because in a place like fieldston these are not conversations that are had? these conversations are not had because i think, sometimes as labor liberals -- we talked about this -- we tend to want to in many ways be color-blind. it's great to be color-blind. that's what we want for society. but it's also important to have initial conversations for black children, asian children, white children, not specifically just black children, because we want to talk about equality. white children have feelings as to well, i'm white, do people see me as superior am i supposed to be superior? i'm black they see me as inferior, why do they see me that way? i'm asian, everyone thinks

because i'm asian the stereotype is i'm supersmart or i should be in commuters. there's nothing wong with having these conversations. it's natural. the world "race," the word "prejudice" these are not bad words. we don't have these conversations in society. as we do we'll have healthier outcomes with regard to being together. >> what was the big idea in your piece? what was the big takeaway. >> we as liberals, like to pretend that we're all happy together and that everything's equal and we're all the same. >> and conservatives, too, feel that way. absolutely. >> no, no no we're ripped apart. >> and that, in fact, we're not all the same, and we need to air that. we have principled conversations in the country about inequality and about justice and about racing but they tend to be on the level of the intellectual. and how we actually feel when we're in the same room when we're dating, when we're at the

same lunch table in the locker room, on a sleepover, when we're colleagues, when we're -- all of these intimate situations, we never talk about that. >> by the way, it's okay for the parents to be upset about this because this is part of the conversation. when we go outside the comfort zone, it allows us or forces us to deal with things normally that we just back away from. so, it's okay. >> lisa's piece the cover story in the new issue of "new york" magazine. >> how great is lisa? >> she's the greatest, i know. >> she is. >> dr. jeff gar dean, thank you. a long summer for "modern family" fans as tomorrow is the season finale for the hit sitcom. eric stonestreet will give us a sneak peek from cam and mitchell when we come back.

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fill, i need to talk to you man-to-man. i think mitchell's having an affair. >> what. >> i was going through his wallet and found a receipt to the hotel, probably some fancy french place he's meeting his lover for secret rendezvous. have they said anything to you about the unit upstairs? you gasped. >> only because you did. >> phil, tell me what you know right now. >> i don't know anything, put me down. talk to your husband. >> my gosh. i love it. i love you. is that okay to say. >> you can absolutely say it.

>> my daughter's freaking out right now. she says she should have come to work with me. >> i would have been happy to see her as well sure. >> we are the biggest fans. that was a preview of tomorrow night's season finale of "modern family." my gosh, what happens? joinings us now one of the stars of the emmy-award winning sitcom "modern family." >> he's not going to tell. >> he's not giving anything away. >> i have adult braces. do they hurt? >> these were fake adult braces. i actually didn't have them but i had to learn to -- >> that's hysterical. what a fun show. do you still have fun? >> we have fun every day. favorite days when we're all there together because believe it or not we don't see each other as you might think because we shoot the show modularly. when we're altogether we crack up. we realize it's lightning in a gotle and knew that from early on. >> it is. >> it's been lightning in a

bottle for quite some time now. it's sort of show that explodes and expect it to last two or three years and people go remember back the first season how good it used to be? >> no, it's still, you guys are still doing it. what's the secret? obviously starts with great writing and acting. >> yeah. the secret is the foundation of the show. it's a family show, everybody can relate to a family story. families aren't defined by borders or cultures or anything like that. we can relate to the stories that we tell and they're truthful stories. there's an expression, there's truth in comedy, and our show is a truthful show. people will come up and always say, my god, that was so over the top, but that exact thing happened to my family. >> exactly. >> that's what's our writers do are reflecting. >> i'm crying, you're a bad mom for not bringing me to work you're mean. that's my family. >> go back to sleep. you say you like the white house correspondents dinner, you're

surprised by the people that watch the show. >> i am. i love going to that dinner. it's a great -- there i am there with somebody that's a politician or something taking a selfie. i love going to that. i'm a news junkie. i enjoy meeting different people there. >> there's rumors that you might be live linked to a washington project coming up soon, any truth to that? what's going on. >> hbo will do a movie "confirmation about anita hill and clarence thomas." i'm going to play kindu.s(>> i'm looking at what you thought you might be once. that's an incredible story. at kansas state studying to be -- >> prison administrator. >> okay. >> lights out. >> lights out. i'm just -- what was the thought behind the choice there? and how did it change? >> i grew up in kansas city, one of the backdrops of my childhood was penitentiaries in kansas

there's a level 5 there, state facility. i saw prisons and was fascinated when i went to college i found out you could study it. i stuck with that. i did a play at kansas state and that sort of changed the trajectory. >> entire course of his life. >> you're using a lot of your success to promote causes that are important to you, and very close to you. >> yeah. >> and especially unfortunately sadly cancer's touched your family a great deal. >> yeah. i'm not different than anybody else watching the show right now. my mom's a two-time survivor i lost both grand paz when i was a kid, an unc toll cancer. friends that are struggling with cancer now. that's why bristol meyers quibb asked me to team up with ready raise.com, create a flag for someone you love that's been touched by cancer. when you go there what happens the three top advocacy groups

that get the most flags bristol meyers squibb will make a donation to the groups. it's bringing awareness to this amazing, new research that bms has done with immunooncology. >> i'm going to join for my friend tia. >> raising a flag for tia. >> what's the website? >> readyraiserise.com. >> bristol meyers squibb. everyone knows who you no respect thank you for using the platform. >> bringing awareness to things i care about. >> i'm glad you didn't become a prison administrator. >> i would have been a funny one. >> eric stonestreet, thank you so much. the season finale of "modern family." >> go k-state. >> to take part in the flag campaign for cancer awareness readyraise,rise.com. what if anything did we learn today?

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so, what brings you to jersey? well, geico's the #1 auto insurer in new jersey, new york and connecticut. so i just came by to say "thanks." #1, huh? that's great. here you go. a little token of appreciation. oh, that's... that's... that's great... now i'd say you probably need a large. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. guys, welcome back. time to talk about what we have learned. >> raising a flag, readyraiserise.com. raising money for cancer. sorry about the vomit machine. >> long story. >> mike. >> it's time for people running for president of the united states to begin telling us what they would do with iraq and the united states. >> the real answer. >> hollywood's gain, prison

administrators everywhere's loss. i did not know that. >> did you learn anything? >> i learned a lot. eric's a great guy. >> yeah. super nice. >> super nice. huge k-state fan. i learned from eric that, what, 16 -- 14 of 22 starters -- >> walk-ones. >> were walk-ones. it's all about character at k-state, something that other big universities could learn from. >> there you go. >> it's way too early. what time is it. >> time for "morning joe." but now it's time for "the rundown." have a great day. >> see you guys tomorrow. good morning. i'm jose diaz-balart. the first look at biker gang member as refed in texas after sunday's deadly gun battle at a waco restaurant. spilling into the streets in the middle of a busy shopping center. authorities say 170 bikers are being held this morning on $1 million bond each and facing

charges of engaging in organized crime. at the same time, police say the threat of retaliation remains high after nine bikers were killed 18 others hurt in the fight. nbc's miguel almaguer has the very latest. >> reporter: with nine killed and 18 wounded in the gruesome lunchtime brawl this morning 170 suspects, all said to be members of rival motorcycle gangs are in jail charged with engaging in organized crime. the vicious attack at this popular strip mall packed with police, was so brazen some call the outlaws domestic terrorists. >> they may not be book smart but these guys have their ph.d.s in violence and intimidation. >> reporter: jay dobbins retired special agent who went deep undercover to infiltrate hells angels says the bloodbath like sunday's is destined to happen when five motorcycle gangs cross paths. >> it's all