the bandidos are a tier two threat, the second most dangerous classification, as speculation grows as to what sparked the fight along with concerns by police more gang members could be headed to texas for retaliation. police are only say it started in a bathroom of the twin peaks restaurant. the bikers killed have not been identified at this point. the restaurant's national headquarters revoked the franchise rights late yesterday. nbc's charles hadlock joins me with more. let's first talk about the ongoing threats and concern more bikers could be headed that way. is that something that's on social media, is this a credible threat, what do we know? >> they were hearing intelligence there was a green light for other gang members to

open fire on anyone in uniform, but now a new bulletin has been issued saying after interviewing more than 200 people associated with the gang after the shootings, they now say that the retaliation is against other gang members and not necessarily police. so they are backing away from that statement at the moment, tamron. >> at this point they believe this gang war could continue, where the gang members are still focused on their rivals. with that said, you know, you have a number of reports quite honestly differing on what set off the chain of events that resulted in nine of the bikers being killed, so we don't know what caused this fight in the first place. >> well we're hearing reports that started in the bathroom and you've got to understand this is a gang turf war, the bandidos have controlled much of texas for years and now the cossacks have tried to band together with other smaller groups and larger groups to try to overtake some

of that territory. apparently one of the cossacks members had a banner on the bottom of his leather vest that said texas and that made the other bandidos members mad and they started a fistfight in the bathroom. it stilled out into the restroom, shots were fired more than 30 people were firing at each other throughout this melee, the cops were there, they knew about this meeting ahead of time and had s.w.a.t. team members surrounding the restaurant in advance just in case there was trouble, so they engaged the bandidos and the cossacks almost immediately. and began firing on them when the bandidos and the cossacks began firing on the police. >> all right, charles, awaiting that news conference, but while we do that, let me bring in edward winterhalder, he was a bandido for 20 years. thank you so much, edward, for joining me. >> good morning, tamron. >> you heard charles hadlock say

this was a turf war. does that simply mean this is about drugs? >> no, it's not about drugs at all. he said something about the bottom locker, just didn't have the whole story. about a year ago the cossacks decided they were going to put on a texas bottom rocker an the bandidos told them that wasn't going to happen and the cossacks went ahead and did it and basically told the bandidos they didn't care what they said. >> the department of justice says that the bandidos which they were formed as you well known, 1966, their focus is distributing cocaine and marijuana and making and selling meth. is that the primary way this gang makes its money at this point? what can you tell us? you've been on the inside. >> that's not accurate at all. 60% to 70% of the guys are just regular working guys, they've got jobs families, kids they go to work every day. just the minority of the club that's involved with meth and

other criminal activities. >> i want to go hopefully you can stand by, let's go to this news conference in waco and listen in to the update. >> there were things that i want you to know that you can expect from us. number one is transparency. you will hear us tell you what we legally can and we will be brutally honest at some points. some of you may not appreciate that, but we'll tell you what we feel and what we know as fact. the first thing that i want to mention is the absolute utmost support that we have received from our community to include waco and the surrounding area. i've been here going on 35 years, and i have never seen the kind of outpouring of support that we have got from our businesses, our citizens, and the community leaders in reference to this tragic event that unfolded here sunday

afternoon. that goes everything from the cooperative team effort between every single law enforcement agency in our area, they have provided troops, they have provided equipment, they have provided anything that we have asked for, and it is amazing to see that kind of law enforcement effort. down to the jail staff that has been booking 170 individuals all night long. they were called in at a moment's notice and came in without hesitation to assist in getting 170 individuals processed, booked which was a lengthy effort. from the jail staff, to the medical staff at our jails, to the law enforcement officers that are out here working the streets, to the law enforcement

officers that are providing security for you folks here on the media scene, a bottom of our heart thank you for what you're doing. the hospitals and the businesses have been instrumental. this has been a monumental task for us in law enforcement. you see the amount of officers that are here and have been working, we have not been hungry. we're fat enough as it is sometimes, but i can assure you our businesses have made sure we maintain our physiques, if you will. yes, we've eaten donuts, too, and we appreciate those. those have been very helpful. i'm going to move into the brutally honest part at this point. i would ask you to continue responsible reporting. if you don't know that it's a fact, please come to me and i will give you that information, if i can. i will tell you if it doesn't come from myself or trooper dio wilson, it is not authorized to leave this scene, and the information you get may be a

best guess. there was a media outlet that was reporting that law enforcement killed four of the individuals at this scene sunday afternoon. i will tell you whoever told you that, that person belongs on csi, because the autopsies have not been completed, and it is impossible at this point to determine that fact. i will tell you is it possible? yes. is it a fact? no. not until the autopsies are complete and we get those final results. will we tell you how many we shot and how many were possibly deceased by police rounds? without a doubt, we will. you will know that when we know that. the information that is out there right now, if you got lucky and guessed that number

congratulations. if you didn't, shame on you for putting that information out there that may have been incorrect. that's my brutally honest part for this morning. now we'll move back on to information. the release of names is not being done yet until we are able to notify next of kin. we're having issues doing that. the issues are, some of the players in this are not being honest with us. we have people calling in saying they are family members trying to find out who's killed and who is injured. until we know that we have made a specific contact with each of the individual deceased, we will not release those names. that should be coming pretty quickly. we are working feverishly to get those families notified. i said very early on, we believe that this was a criminal event that occurred here, however, those that are injured and deceased are human beings and we will treat them with the utmost respect that we can. high number of people jailed

killed, or injured were not from the waco area. we know that is a fact. many of them were not from the local waco community. there is a wide list of where they are from. once we get that information, we will share that with you and let you know where they are from. we won't guess on facts, we will tell you specific facts that are knowledge to us. of those that were injured, of the 18 that went to hospitals, seven remain in our local area hospitals. all are stable and most are improving. i will tell you as a law enforcement officer, if something happens to me in the line of duty, i am glad i live in waco, texas. our hospital staff has been commendable in what they've done treating in an extreme trauma event. they were amazing in how they handled the number of injured

that were brought to them in the moment's notice. they were not staffed for that, but immediately did so. there was not a single trauma patient that had to wait for care, and we think that is absolutely extraordinary of our local hospitals. okay. to sunday's event. here's what we know and here's what has been fact from the detectives that are working the crime scene still currently behind us. there was a planned meeting of one group of biker members. that meeting is a coalition of several bike groups that were invited to come to twin peaks restaurant.

they had rented out or asked for the outdoor bar area specifically for a meeting that they were having of a group of invited biker gangs. we know an additional biker gang that was not invited to this meeting showed up, hence what we were calling somewhat of a turf war, if you will. when those individuals showed up, there was a disturbance in the parking lot, and i mentioned that early on. we thought that was about a parking issue, we still believe that that may have been what it was. i have additional information this morning that that may have been -- may go beyond a parking incident to somebody had their foot run over and started the disturbance in the parking lot. we have crime scenes inside and

outside of twin peaks restaurant. those crime scenes include bathroom areas, the restaurant areas, and the bar areas. it's my understanding that there was some type of altercation inside. we know that we have blood on the inside of twin peaks, as well as numerous pieces of evidence, both inside and out. it is a lengthy process for those investigators to attempt to determine exactly what occurred when you have people not being truthful with us about what went on inside and outside the club. i'm sorry, the restaurant. we will figure it out. when will we figure that out? i can't give you a timeline. obviously, you see all the

moving pieces and parts of this. we do know that we have crime scene inside and outside, and we know that assaults occurred inside and outside the establishment. that brings us to where we are today. obviously, the investigation has been ongoing and will continue, if not for weeks for months. what we are doing still at the scene behind you is processing evidence. we have picked up most of the important pieces of evidence, blood evidence, bullet fragments, shell casings and weapons. what we're continuing to do as we did yesterday afternoon is we are moving motorcycles and vehicles from the scene. some of you that were here late last night saw that start. that is a lengthy process as well, as you can tell when a wrecker or a flat bed left here loaded with motorcycles, it was heavily escorted by our s.w.a.t. team and patrol officers from waco p.d. to get them safely

where they were going. we believe we have at least 80 cars and pickups still to remain at the scene that we will need to remove. most of those for one reason or another contain evidence or have been involved in the crime scene where we believe they are evidence. the lead detective, our special crimes unit on this scene this morning, who is working in cooperation with the texas rangers and the texas department of public safety criminal intelligence division, are working their tails off on this scene. i will tell you that they have had extremely limited number of hours of sleep and kudos to those guys. i have the easy job telling you what they are doing. i would not want their responsibilities, as they are insurmountable. we appreciate the efforts of all of the detectives and all of the units and all of the agencies that are assisting in helping us

gather information to put together a rock solid investigation. what we anticipate today is to continue moving the motorcycles and the cars away from the scene. there are approximately 135 motorcycles that will need to be removed from the crime scene and transported to a secure location. again, that process has been ongoing through the night and will continue throughout the day. as far as updates that is probably the most that you're going to get from us today. i will try to answer a few questions. trooper wilson is going to assist me with that and try to keep me on track. i would ask that you listen to the questions that your fellow reporters ask and let's try not to repeat so we can get through. with the large number of you here, please let me call at you instead of shouting at me, and for those of you on the opposite side, i will repeat the question

so everybody knows what the question is. fair game? sir? >> how long did this event last? from the start of it to the man getting his foot run over in the parking lot, to the point the last shot was fired, how long did it all last? >> the question was how long did the initial violence last at the scene, meaning the original shooting. i know that we were there within seconds, if not at least a minute. our officers were on scene and approached it once we saw that there was a disturbance. i can't give you an exact timeline that is something that will be determined by investigators' review of evidence investigators' review of our in-car cameras, and investigators review of any other potential video sources that may be in and around the area. i can tell you that it happened very quickly. our response was instantaneous once we realized there was

trouble. when we got on scene, shots were still being fired, shots were fired at our officers, and we returned fire. yes, sir? >> in regards to law enforcement -- [ inaudible ] >> let's stick with that. the question is, have there been threats to law enforcement. since we have been here, absolutely, there have been credible, reliable threats towards law enforcement in and around our area. i will tell you those have toned down a bit over the past 24 hours. we are absolutely thankful of that. i made mention last night that there has been enough tragedy and there's been enough bloodshed in waco texas. we would appreciate there not being anymore. are we asking for cooperation from known criminal bike gangs? absolutely, we are. we are asking them to stand down we are asking them to let us sort through our

investigation, and we will be honest with them as well as we were honest with you all and will continue to be. we think that those threats are toning down a bit. we appreciate that and we look forward to trying to work with everybody that may have been involved in this. yes, ma'am? >> numerous times they were never warned to cancel this particular event what's your response to that? >> are you talking about this one particular event? the question was, the restaurant is claiming to have not been asked to cancel this one particular event. i don't know about this one particular event. i can tell you that we have been in contact with them, asked them for their assistance to no avail. i won't beat that dead horse. i've said that statement, and we will leave it with that. the chips will fall where they may in reference to that. yes, sir? >> there were reports that large

numbers of motorcycle gangs and others headed towards this area. armed with the intention of hurting officers, do you believe groups are headed this way? >> we think that has toned down. the question was do we feel we're getting any more additional armed groups of bikers headed this way. we saw that sunday afternoon and sunday night, that was a fact, they were here we saw them, we arrested a few. that has toned down some in the past 24 hours. you will see a smaller amount of motorcycles in the waco area, is what our patrol officers have been noticing. we hope that is in response to our pleas of please let us do our work stand down and let things kind of calm down. i will tell you, that in the gang world and in the biker world, that violence usually condones more violence. is this over? most likely not. we would like it to be, we would ask there to be some type of

truce between whatever motorcycle gangs are involved. we would encourage them to try and be a little peaceful and let the bloodshed stop. yes, sir? you're going to have to talk up much louder, sir. [ inaudible question ] okay the question is what's the duty status of the officers involved in the shooting, and what's the security status going into memorial weekend. the first question the officers that were here on scene are some of our most highly trained, best caliber officers that waco p.d. has to offer our city. they were here for a reason because they are the best trained, they are the highest caliber of officer that we can put here in the time of violence. i will tell you, those officers were involved in the shooting.

typically, our first concern is the welfare of -- and the mental health of those officers. none of us that wear the badge and put on the uniform come to work with the hope or idea of wanting to kill one of our citizens. that is the last thing that we want to do, and it is absolutely a nightmare for not only us but our family members and our family members include blood in blue if you will, those of us that are relatives in uniform. not something we ever want to do. we considered that. i will tell you because of the high threat level that we had going into sunday evening, those officers we kept them here because of their abilities. i will tell you that was probably their most difficult task, is having to deal with what they did sunday afternoon and then be asked to continue their duty. an extremely difficult task. i will tell you the only more difficult task to have done

would to be have pulled them away from this scene because they have a responsibility to this community and they absolutely stepped up and did a tremendous job on that. was there a second part to that question? where are you? one more time? memorial day security. there is still a very heavy presence of law enforcement in and around the waco community. this is not the area that caused trouble, i can assure you. will there be trouble elsewhere? memorial day weekend there are fatality accidents, people drink and party we hope it goes back to that normal traffic crash situation type of incident that we may deal with. again, i said we believe that things are starting to tone down a little bit, and it is looking a little bit better for us. in the event something happens we are adequately staffed and will be able to deal with whatever is presented to us. >> we've been able to get some

new updates from sergeant swanson of the waco police department in the investigation of that deadly weekend shooting between rival gangs. at this point, the people who died, the eight people, eight fatalities, those folks have not been identified as of yet. just complicating this investigation even further. also, 135 bikes still at that scene, as it is an active investigation at the site of the restaurant, according to police you just heard there they are still unclear what set off this chain of events that turned deadly with people shopping with their families not very far away at a strip mall near there. it did escalate inside and outside of the restaurant. the sergeant there describing it as a turf war between gang members, still more than 100 are still behind bars as this continues, but i want to bring back with me edward winterhalder, a former member of the bandidos gang. edward, as you heard there the

officer say this was a turf war. explain to us why that would set off the events that were played out. >> well, again, it's territorial and it's due to the fact that the cossacks put on the texas bottom rocker last year. >> what does that mean? >> in defiance to the bandidos. >> what does that mean the bottom rocker what does that mean? >> on the back of their vest for a motorcycle club there's typically three-piece patch for outlaw motorcycle club the top rocker is the name of the organization the center patch is the logo, and then the bottom rocker is the geographic territory in which the person lives. in the case of texas bandidos they would wear a texas bottom rocker, which they've done for many years decades and recently last year the cossacks decided that they were sick and tired of the bandidos telling them what to do and they decided they were going to put on a texas bottom rocker in defiance to the bandidos. since then there's been minor

skirmishes and there was a stabbing in abilene or odessa last year and this has been building for quite some time. >> they say the bandidos are a tier-two threat, as i mentioned to you earlier the department of justice says the bandidos focus in on selling cocaine marijuana, and meth. you say that's not the case. >> absolutely not. i'll give myself as a perfect example. while i was a member of the bandidos, i built the colin county courthouse in mckinney, texas. i was a single dad with custody, had custody of my daughter from the age of 4. all the guys in my chapter had jobs and went to work every day. there was many chapters like that. >> would you say -- you were the exception and maybe not the rule? i ask you this because there was an interview with an investigator that recently infiltrated the group and he

said the bandidos are an international organized crime syndicate, nothing sexy about it, when you're in it. >> yeah, of course he would say that, but in the eyes of law enforcement, the only people that come in contact with are people that are committing crimes. so they don't always come in contact with the guys that are just going to work every day and things of that nature. so that's their opinion and that's the way they think it is, but that's not the reality of the situation. >> the reality of the situation according to police in waco was that some of these members of the bike gangs did open fire turning their guns on police officers there. many would say that doesn't sound like clean cut family guys who go to work every day, a number of weapons were recovered, as well. >> i would be surprised if that ends up being the truth. in my opinion, i expect some of the police ran into an active shooting scene in which they got

caught in the crossfire. not all those bullets hit their intended targets. some of them traveled on beyond the intended target and it's my guess more than likely some of those bullets were flying past police officers as they were running into the scene. and, you know it's no doubt that their automatic reflex is to turn around and return fire, which is what they did. >> edward, thank you so much for joining us and your perspective on what played out in waco, we greatly appreciate it. >> you're welcome. still ahead, a long time ally of the clintons is reportedly being subpoenaed by the congressional committee investigating the 2012 attacks in benghazi. plus what chris christie thinks of a new poll showing 65% of new jersey voters don't think he'll make a good president. >> they want me to stay. don't leave to run to president because we want you to stay. >> more of the comments from governor christie in our first read. and later at the bottom of the hour the hip hop revolution, a new exhibit shows how the music born on the

streets of new york became a global influence on culture and even politics. it's all through a series of very rare photos one of the photographers who started capturing images when he was just a kid will join me live, along with rapper song writer, and d.j., grandmaster caz. join our conversation online on twitter, and me on facebook, twitter, and instagram. here at friskies, cats are in charge of approving every new recipe. because it's cats who know best what cats like to eat. gran gran kaz all in one dish. now for the moment of truth. yep, looks like it's time to share what our cats love with your cats. new friskies 7. for cats. by cats.

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reports that the congressional committee investigating the 2012 attacks in benghazi will subpoena a long-time clinton ally for a private transcribed interview. sydney blumenthal was not an plo of clinton's state department instead wrote memos on libya to the secretary. the paper reports much of the information appears to have come from a group of business associates he was advising as they sought to win contracts from the libyan transitional government. the times reports clinton appeared to take blumenthal's advice seriously forwarding his e-mails to top officials. the former secretary of state in iowa right now, wrapping up a two-day visit there. joining me michael tomasky, thank you so much for your time. let's start off with the state department making this request that it cannot sift through all of these e-mails until january that's when they believe they'll be done with it. and the timing of it two weeks

before the iowa caucuses. what's your thought there? >> i'm sure hillary clinton -- excuse me would prefer they get them out sooner. i don't think she wants this to happen before the primary happens, not that she's got serious competition in those, but i think the timing if anything, is not that great for her, something she preferred earlier, for sure. >> absolutely, that then means if there's no other major story line, even though we'll get to this benghazi development that will be the major question that she'll continue to answer, all the way through the beginning of the next year. i do want to play, though some of the criticism, obviously, she's facing from potential republican rivals over the e-mails and, michael last friday's disclosure of how much money was brought in to the clinton household as the result of speeches. let's play that. >> i think the server at home

business is just absolutely incredible that you would be secretary of state and working off a private e-mail and be deleting and destroying that stuff is just incredible to me. >> are you satisfied that secretary clinton has been transparent enough when it comes to -- >> she hasn't been particularly transparent on a lot of things, everything from her e-mail accounts, to her work as secretary of state. >> so to your point, michael, no real threat at this point even admittedly by those who want to run for president on the democratic side but the threat coming from the right and republicans regarding these e-mails and the amount of money made. >> well, with regard to the e-mails, it's going to depend tamron, what's in them. when we all have a chance to see them, and if there's some kind of smoking gun, that might lead to controversy, will lead to controversy, but if there's not, this story goes away, and i will imagine there will be a few ambiguous enough republicans

will try to make something of it, but depends on the content of the e-mails. with regards to the speeches and the fees, i looked through that list and, you know it's my view, i think there's fair criticism to be made of the clintons here. at this point they've made more than $125 million from these speeches. at some point you've made enough money and just you know, it looks not great. >> well, you know, the clintons make the point bill clinton has, that there are other philanthropic families, the kennedys, the list goes on and on in american history who made a great amount of money, but use their money and influence for others. >> that's fine and the clinton foundation does many good things in the world and they could be doing a better job right now, by the way, of getting some of those good deeds out there and getting the public to know about those things. but, you know, there's just a certain point when they knew that she was preparing to run for president, that 200 300,

$400,000 speeches, not great. >> the appearance of it. you mention the clinton foundation this development regarding sydney blumenthal, this "new york times" report that he will be subpoenaed for questioning here. again, the illusion or perception there may be influence peddling involved here. >> yeah, i don't see it. i couldn't really make heads or tails of this "times" story. he didn't tell her that he was working with these people who were pursuing business interests, yet presumably, so as not to let her -- to shield her from any appearance, i think it was appropriate he didn't tell her. nobody put any bids on any business, nobody made any money from this. i really don't understand quite what that story was about. >> you think it's much to do about nothing, just a headline here to keep some traction going? >> the "times" has been running a series of stories about her brother, tony rodham this one. i don't know what they are up to. >> all right michael tomasky,

thank you so much for your time, always great to have you on. >> thanks a lot. turning now to today's first read on politics governor chris christie hits new hampshire again this week, but his poll numbers in new jersey may be the real problem if he decides to run for president. nbc news senior political editor mark murray, abbreviated first read, but this chris christie interview, interesting answer he gave to the question about 65% in his state not wanting him to run. let's play that. >> the polls in new jersey say by a 65% to 29% margin, you would not make a good president. they know you the best, why shouldn't we trust them? >> they want me to stay, and i've heard that from lots of people at town hall meetings, don't leave to run for president, we want you to stay. >> they say you would not make a good president. >> i think people hear the question they want to hear. >> did he hear the question he wanted to hear? >> yeah tamron, i wouldn't be surprised if some people in new

jersey told him, yes, please stay, we don't want you to run for the presidency but you look at the other polling out there, recent poll that had his approval rating in new jersey at just 35%. so clearly people that don't think he's doing a good job on his day job, but to me the biggest poll has to do with the national and the polls in iowa and new hampshire, tamron, and you look at republican primary voters and they are just not keen on chris christie. his popularity standing is upsidedown with republican voters nationwide also in iowa and new hampshire and that is such a difficult place to be even beginning a presidential bid. that's why there are a lot of people who are very bearish on his prospects. >> all right, mark thank you so much. we'll see you tomorrow. pleasure having you on, though, today. >> thanks. developing now, immigration activists gathering today bringing attention to the millions of people whose futures are still on hold as the president's executive action is held up in court. an update live report on the

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developing now, immigration activists are holding a nationwide day of action today, a day that marks what would have been the start of president obama's executive action offering deportation relief for millions of undocumented immigrant immigrants. an organizer from the maryland group just tweeted this picture from an event in baltimore with the hash tag # fight for dapa. groups are staging dozens of events across the country, leaving undocumented parents of american-born children in limbo. and right now, 26 states, led by texas, are challenging the president's executive actions in federal court and in a new filing yesterday the obama administration asked the federal 5th circuit court of appeals to set aside the court order blocking those actions. joining me now, msnbcnews.com

contributor, thanks so much for joining us. listen, these rallies and activists are a perfect reminder as the immigration debate is seeped from the headlines as it's locked up in court. >> you have to think about it this way, these people have been on a real roller coaster ride when it comes to this process. in november when the president announced his action there was euphoria, then came february, the judge in texas put it on hold, people were nervous, disappointed. last month it went to the circuit court of appeals, and now people are really starting to think, is this going to happen is this going to keep you know is this something we can dare to hope for. i think a big purpose of all these rallies, and many are taking place in cities you might be surprised to realize that there's a very active immigration movement in, places like charlotte north carolina knoxville, tennessee. all over the country, it's designed to remind people there's a human face of this movement and these are people that want to drive home from

church without having to worry about whether or not they'll be separated from their families. they want to attend parent teacher conferences at their schools. that's what's at the heart of the movement. >> some of the tweets that have come out already as we wait to get video say today should have been the first parents could apply to dapa. sdiu tweeted out today hundreds of faith labor, business groups come together for national day of action. so -- but at this point raul, you have a number of people who are collecting their paperwork, they are trying to get their ducks in a row, showing they paid taxes for the years they have been here, but still in this emotional and financial limbo. >> exactly. basically, a holding pattern the different dapa workshops, they tell people get as many documents you can to prove your identity and your continuous residency, but really nothing more they can do. there's no application yet from

the government to sign up for these programs, because everything is on hold for right now. but the thing is, through these demonstrations mars, this is an attempt to prove people are not going to give up on it and also as a secondary goal to call out republican lawmakers who said there are 113 republican lawmakers who support these measures by the state attorney general and these governors to strike down dapa and the new daca, so they want to call them out, they want to keep the pressure on them and by the way, when you look at the public polling on this issue in terms of executive action the public is pretty much split in theory, but in practice when you break it down, the public, for example, this is a gallup poll this month excuse me, a.p. poll, 59% of americans think people brought here illegally as children should be allowed to stay, 57% of americans believe that parents of citizen children should be allowed to stay and work legally. that's basically daca and dapa

right there, so the public supports these measures. i talked to one organizer the other day and they said as long as they are in a holding pattern, they cannot give up the fight. the struggle continues. they are not going to give up this is a movement that will go on and hopefully keep the pressure up and hopefully, they anticipate long-term favorable ruling from the court. >> all right, thank you very much, raul reyes we'll continue to follow the rallies around the country today. up next, documenting the birth and growth of hip hop, a new exhibit uses iconic photos to show the genre's pioneering days, its explosion in pop culture, and even in politics. i'll talk live with the curator and photographer along with grandmaster caz, one of the members. he just dropped his jaw. we'll be right back.

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long before the rise of artists like jay z and drake before the days of tupac and drake and tupac and notorious b.i.g. an underground movement in new york that forever change the landscape of pop culture. it took over music as artists experimented with turntables, hip hop and the way people dressed. at times resembleing a movement. hip hop immersed in the culture unaware of what would become a worldwide social phenomenon. those photographs are part of an exhibit getting attention

nationwide. many from the hip hop golden age featuring cole crush brushes dj cool and dmz. we have one featured in the exhibit from the cole brothers. thank you so much for joining us. such a pleasure. so i went to this round table discussion at the museum the other night. i was so stunned and i don't know why at diversity and range of people in the audience to talk about hip hop, history to hear you speak.

>> definitely. hip hop is 42 years old. its interest is worldwide. the fact that other people appreciate our culture and are starting to try to deseminate it, learn it it gives the place where hip hop started a new awareness of it as well. now people domestically are like wait, we took this thing for granted. hey, people around the world are really recognizing. let's take a little more serious and see what this thing is. paragraphs have peaked image. there's nothing like an image. a picture says a thousand words. >> joe worked with e.m.t., president of the fire department. at night you're hip hop. your pictures -- how old were you when you first took the photographs? >> i picked up the camera at a young age 13 14 years old.

not knowing the photos i took growing up would be so important 30-40 years later. >> how go do you describe what's going on in the image? >> it was about having fun. next friday next saturday, next party. bling wasn't part of it. record deals weren't part of it. just a bunch of young kids, kaz and i waiting for next friday, next jam. >> that's what you talk about. the b boys and music, comparing it to what it is and what it has evolved today. completely different. almost like two different beats. >> yeah yeah. every generation has its version of cultural movement. for us during the early 70s, hip hop was it. it's reinvention of energy that's existed since theinge

beginning of time. >> what's the difference? >> culturely, hip hop is a movement with rap music, b boys, graffiti and spoken word which is rap and dj. all these things together make hip hop. rap music is one element of the culture t one most marketable and one that can be sold to the world. you can't sell a b-boy. you can sell and package rap music. rap music is an entity to itself. >> too commercial? >> much too commercial. not bad something becomes commercial, but too commercial is a problem. we lose the cultural part of it. >> sean, kaz said hip hop didn't

invent anything, it rere-invent rere-invented everything. you see images from the three photographers including joe there. a once in a lifetime moment. you cure rated it. i know you love hip hop too. >> for me it was digging into these archives and seeing hip hop through three different eyes. joe a kid part of it, martha documenting its on the street and jenn net. for the museum, we get to see new york as an incubator of ideas. a place to take these ideas share it with the word. >> you do hip hop tours throughout in new york.

when you saw -- i think the audience there captured it well. all these years later, 40 years later, b boys inside the new york city museum. talk about a rising. >> it's surreal. we've taken a lot of steps towards legitimacy as far as hip hop is concerned. when you think about the days kaz did graffiti on trains and got chased and out arrested. guys getting arrested in train stations for dancing and stuff like that. that same culture is em compassed in the museum. it's mind blowing. >> it is mind blowing. photographers are brilliant. thank you. great work with this. there's not enough words to describe what this is like. if you're in new york, go see this exhibit. it's brilliant. that does it for this edition of "news nation." kaz was going to rap us out but we're out of time. sorry. you've got to pay to hear those

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right now on "andrea mitchell reports," biker wars. one 170 suspects held in texas. how big a threat are motorcycle gangs now threatening to retaliate against waco police? >> we know the additional biker gang not invited to this meeting showed up. hence what we were calling somewhat of a turf war, if you will. secret e-mails. the judge just ruled all of hillary clinton's private e-mails cannot remain secret until next year. after the state department told the courts it cannot meet earlier deadlines. no comment yet from the candidates campaigning this hour in iowa. >> the deck is still stack add