the twenty-fifteen subaru legacy. it's not just a sedan. it's a subaru. brought to tears, a police officer in cleveland within the past hour found not guilty in the shooting of two people those details ahead. fighting chance iraqi forces are trying to recapture a key city that fell to isis. we will assess the chances and why this battle is critical. closed for the holiday, the california oil spill larger than originally thought. we will bring you a live report. an hour-long slow speed chase that ended abruptly and in a most unusual way. and going to extremes the memorial weekend weather holds some surprises. we have the forecast for you, next. hey there, everyone. high noon here in the east 9:00

a.m. out west. we have this breaking news out of cleveland. a judge has just found police officer michael brelo not guilty on all charges that would include voluntarily manslaughter in connection with the 2012 fatal shootings of timothy russell and malissa williams both of whom were unarmed. the incident became known as the 137 shots case because of the number of bullets fired by 13 police officers at the end of a high-speed chase. officer brelo fired the most shots, 49 total, but his last 15 shots resulted in the voluntary manslaughter charges. now prosecutors say the shots were fired from the hood of russell's car right down into the windshield with the intent to kill since at that point, the car was stopped and the ou pants did not pose a threat. the chase began after russell's 1979 chevy malibu back fired as it drove past police headquarters and that gave officers the impression someone in the car had fired a gun.

brelo waived his right to a jury and did not take the stand during the trial. joining me by phone, scott newell. with a welcome, walk us through the courtroom reaction once the verdict was read. >> it was calm in the courtroom. it was interesting how the judge delivered the verdict. he walked over to two mannequins in the courtroom and showed the wounds of each victim and said the state had not proved that officer brelo fired the bullets that caused their death and a lesser charge to felonious assault but the judge said brelo reasonably feared for his safety under the circumstances that night and was legally justified in using deadly force. right after the verdict, there were several activists who came out into the hallway, we talked to a couple of them. they promised there would be protests today, but not any violence in the protests. there are several dozen protesters gathered outside the justice center here in cleveland which is where i am right now and they are shouting, "no justice no peace" and they included rene robinson the first cousin of one of the victims malissa williams.

she was extremely emotional asking why did they have to do this as they showed a picture of the car in which the two victims were shot. >> pretty profound pictures there. let's talk about as we show our viewers live pictures of those protesters outside where you are in cleveland. what specifically are they protesting? >> well there are two cases, actually more than two cases here. the other high-profile case here in cleveland is the case of tamir rice, a young man who was shot. >> right. >> in a park and you have reported on that case as well. so it's generally what the protesters are saying is that there has to be some sort of a change in the relationship between the police and some members of this community and they want to make sure that justice is done in each one of those cases. >> okay. scott newell thanks so much for being our eyes and ears inside the courtroom. this all went down just about 45 minutes ago. we thank you for bringing us the latest. and joining me in studio a former prosecutor and criminal

defense attorney and john shane, professor of criminal justice at john j. college and a retired captain of the newark police department. with a welcome to you both. let's take a listen right now, both of you, to the reaction by malissa right after the ruling. let's take a listen. >> malissa williams and timothy russell was living before he got on top of the hood of the car and starting to shoot into the wind shield. if he would have never got on top of the hood of the car they would be living today. >> of course i admitted saying that's her brother, she's deceased, but talk about that. >> that's exactly the opposite of what the defense team argued which is so interesting. they argued basically that officer brelo was justified in his behavior until he got on the hood which is the last 2.6 seconds. and let me explain. if he is justified then he should have been found not guilty. also important is that -- and

this is what i read the evidence came out that showed they were dead before he got on the hood because as you said in your intro, there were 49 shots before he got -- >> just by him. 137 total. >> just by him and only 15 when he got on the hood so alex if he's -- if they are dead before he gets on the hood and he was justified in that action the verdict seems appropriate is. >> surprising to you? >> not particularly, and here's partly why. i conquer with that but police officers have to be right about the law but they can be mistaken about the facts. because there were so many shots that were fired, if they were somehow in a cross-fire situation, and the officer that was indicted believed that shots that were being fired were coming from inside the vehicle or actually coming from other officers, he gets the right to be mistaken about those facts but he has to be right about the law. the law says if a police officer feels they or a third person are in fear for their life and they can use deadly force. so if the police officer

believes the bullets are being fired at him and he returns fire, and does so with so many shots, that is reasonable. so, therefore, not guilty. >> what do you make john of this case being tried in front of the judge with no jury? >> well what that suggests to me is that he wants -- he meaning the defendant, wants a professional of the law who is going to be much more impartial, a lot less swayed by the emotion. >> that's not what it means. >> go ahead. >> what it means, as a -- so the defense gets to choose judge or jury. a defense chooses a judge when they know or close to knowing they are going to win. that's why they go with the judge. >> i think they're going to win because -- >> and they did. >> but how would they know that just by the judge's history or relationships? >> right exactly. relationships, history, sometimes what we call the wink. we actually get from the judge so we have an idea of which way the judge is going to go. there's so many factors

involved. >> that seems like a complete violation of what the -- our law stands for -- >> the reality is that those are the informal workings of the courtroom group and a police officer that's facing these things has the evidence before him, knows exactly what he's up against and says i want a professional of the law to make this decision. i don't want a group of people from the community who are going to react to historical events like ferguson. >> exactly. >> and baltimore and say -- >> so it sounds like you both are right. you're saying ones aspect of it but you as well, they went before a judge rather than going for a jury which might have a bit more emotion tied to the relevance in the case and trying to -- >> the complexities of the criminal justice. it's not black and white. there's shades of gray. she is right. these are some of the in informalityies that go on. >> every time i choose a bench over jury it's because i know which way the judge is going to go. >> during the reading the judge mentioned the other police shooting cases out there and they took some police to task for all this.

let's take a listen to that. >> every week i pass a mound of stuffed animals left in memory of the 12-year-old that many people believe was murdered by the police. this animosity towards the police is fed not just by stories the tv watchers and internet clickers are attracted to but by police officers affronts intended or not to honest people treated as criminals, but unnecessarily brutal treatment of suspected arrestees, by daily slights and disrespect, real and imagined, and by the isolation of the police from the people they serve. >> john you're a retired newark police captain. can you speak to how much responsibility the rank and file officers feel to the need for improving relations with the

community and the people they serve? >> they have a tremendous amount of respect for the people in the community. what is lost on them is a fundamental misunderstanding of the community in how police work takes place. most people don't understand the complexities of police work the agency policy the procedural law, the substantive law, the way in which relationships are handled. the limitations placed on police. and the community does not often understand what a police officer is facing. so when a police officer rides up into a situation and has just seconds to make a decision they do that within this body of law and rules and regulations and policy and when it doesn't look right the community stands back and says look what happened how could this be. the reality is a police officer has had to process an enormous amount of information in a short window and that contributes to the misunderstanding. >> we will say, though, there's a realty in certain cases, video showing the reality which seems

wrong. >> it doesn't always capture 100% of the context and, in fact, the limitations of body cameras have been pointed out for at least ten different circumstances of why they are good and bad, and i would opt for camera -- >> like every single day. >> yeah. >> we see some police shooting where it seems that the police officer was acting inappropriate inappropriately. every day. >> well, what may seem to be inappropriate on its face after it is digested through the lens of cool calm deliberation -- >> with a lot of dead people. >> well -- >> that's the justification that's hard to digest. >> i could be mistaken about the facts as long as i'm right about the law. the police officers are almost overwhelmingly right about the law when they use force -- >> i disagree. >> why there are not a lot of convictions of police officers. pe don't often make it to trial. >> that's something we grant police officers the latitude to do on our behalf. we say to them, we're going to create this institution called the police and have you tasked

with making the split-second decisions all things being equal when the things happen we come down on the side of the police. >> has to be better training and education. >> i would agree with that. >> the point which we may all agree and have to wrap up this conversation. i'll welcome you both back any time. >> a lot more reaction and legal analysis coming up in our next hour for you. the state of emergency in california along one of the most beautiful beaches in the nation as crews race to clean up after a huge oil spill. workers are struggling to save animals caught in the spill off santa barbara this after a pipeline ruptured tuesday leaking more than 100,000 gallons of oil and as of now two popular state owned beaches in america remain closed. msnbc's scott cohen is in santa barbara to you, with another good day to you, more dead animals being discovered so what all are crews finding? >> well that's it they've found as many as five dead pelicans, a dead dolphin, they have to do tests to make certain it was the oil spill that killed

them, and as you said they are trying to rescue the live animals they're finding and then the cleanup that's going on. take a look behind me this is refugio state beach that should be full of tourists people that are starting out their memorial day weekend, nice walk on the beach. instead it is clean up workers and they have done a lot of work roughly 900 cubic yards of solids have been recovered. think of that as about 10 large or -- as about 90 large dumpsters. the dumpsters carry about ten gallons each. that's a lot. offshore, we are told now, this is good news they are no longer finding the big patches of oil. what they're doing now is trying to strain the seaweed, the kelp with the oil, and even that they're not finding a whole lot of because we had the rough seas that churned things up and dispersed things and they've done a great deal of skimming since the spill was discovered and meantime also a lot of work going on just up the coast from

here where the pipeline broke. they have to shut that down train it, find out what causeds the spill and alex that could take months. >> okay. scott, we're going to check back in with you next hour and get an update in santa barbara. the senate is in recess today after failing early this morning to pass motions to renew or reform the nsa bulk data collection program. majority leader mitch mcconnell offered a number of options for short-term extensions each failed. senators will return may 31st before the nsa program expires on june 1st. kelly owe dodge at the white house for us. with another good day to you, why wasn't the majority leader able to push this through? >> despite all of mitch mcconnell's good intentions ss and his belief the programs under the patriot act in question here are good for national security you've got a now senators who feel very differently about this. rand paul chief among them libertarian kind of republican running for the president, who has been out front and outspoken about his opposition to what he

thinks is a violation of the constitution and privacy by the bulk collection by the federal government of phone records. but not just rand paul. also progressive democrats like ron wyden and martin hinerick of oregon and new mexico said no. what you had is a case where mcconnell was sort of throwing the hail mary pass to say if you can't agree on this could we do that short-term extension. even though there had been senators who had said they would object, they had to be physically present there to do so and they did. it went into the wee hours and this is a case where this was a foreseebl problem for the senate and in the past there has always been sort of pressure when they're close to a deadline that somehow they get it done. in this case they didn't. they come back next sunday hours before the deadline and they'll try again. alex? >> what's likely to happen on that sunday? >> well could minds change between now and next week? it does not look likely. so it is entirely possible that

at least for some period of time, the provisions that allow the government to collect this data could be sunset is the word they use here in washington expired. so then what do they do? the attorney general has said that these kinds of tools are necessary, from the sort of pseudo campaign trail chris christie of new jersey former u.s. prosecutor u.s. attorney said that this is the kind of dysfunction that usually is endanger russ in this case he believes it is. others that feel strongly that programs first made public by edward snowedp should stop or be changed. so it's a really substantive argument and they don't have nan easy way out. alex if? >> they don't. kelly o'donnell, thanks so much. the white house reaction to isis seizing ramadi is a new strategy needed? i'll talk to former ambassador bill richardson next. the unusual end to a police chase in southern california. a guy on the street gets the driver to stop. what happened next had onlookers

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are we going to light our hair on fire every time there is a setback in the campaign against isil or take seriously our responsibility to evaluate the areas where we succeed and where steps are necessary for us to change our strategy where we've sustained setbacks. >> that was white house press secretary josh earnest defending president obama's strategy against isis after the militants stormed through ramadi this week and raised their flag in the capital of iraq's anbar province. iraqi forces and militiamen are mounting a counter attack with reports coming in they've freed a small city outside of ramadi. joining me now former new mexico

governor bill richardson who previously served as u.s. secretary ambassador to the united nations and a u.s. congressman, with a welcome to you, always good to see you, governor, josh earnest, "the new york post" compared to baghdad bob, this week they do love to grab the headlines, said that the mission is overall a success. they were quoting him as saying that. is it and how successful for that matter is a spin campaign that's going on? is it a spin campaign? >> well i think there have been some setbacks. the falling down of those two towns, so i think adjustments and changes are needed to strategy which i believe is a correct strategy. this is what i would do. what i would suggest. one, more training for the iraqi security forces. more training for the iraqi special forces. but i think what has to happen alex, is, you know, a lot of the iraqi forces have been retreating. they need to increase their commitment. we need to train them.

they need to train better. we need to help them recapture some of their lost territory. we're providing thousand anti-tank rockets, maybe they need more. we need to help the kurdss more. there have been victories along the serious setbacks. yes, some adjustments are needed. do we need more american troops no. we have 3,000 there. they train, they proceed with intelligence, they help with logistics. you know you get into another morass like iraq put 10,000 in and there will be 20,000 30,000. i think the strategy is sound. it's only eight months so far we've had this strategy. let it work. >> but everything you're saying that we need sir, what's the holdup? is it a holdup on our end or a holdup on iraq's end? >> well the holdup on iraq's end is you know while their prime minister is whining our air strikes are taking too long -- that upset me -- you

know, his forces retreat. they don't show enough commitment, me don't hang in there long enough they don't train as rapidly as they should. some military options we are considering, i think it does make sense to proceed with the anti-tank weapons, maybe increase them. maybe we should expand the training into their special forces, their training forces but this is a war that has to be fought by the iraqi security forces and moderate syrian rebels. that's what has to happen. but we're not losing. we have some victories, we have some defeats but clearly some adjustments are needed and they're mainly in the military side right now on the iraqi side. >> you know you mentioned syria. a monitoring group said this week that isis now controls half of syria. which would have been unspeakable a few years ago. but when you look at the alternative, is there any scenario you can imagine where the white house, reverses its

stance op president assad, and says he should stay in power? >> no. the man is -- assad is a humanitarian disaster. he's a killer. he's repressive. it doesn't serve our interest for him to stay. what i think the white house has tried to do with the help of the u.n. and our allies in the region region, is try to promote some kind of a transition where assad, after a period of time goes out. i think you to be realistic. you can't knock him out. he has russian support, you know the whole isis situation is dicey, iran is playing ball with us and assad and isis. you know so it's very complicated. so no i don't think that makes sense to aspire for assad to stay. it's not in our interest, not in anyone's interest. >> let's get to 2016 as yesterday the state department as you know released the first

batch of the hillary clinton e-mails, 296 in total, significant portions were redacted and that includes the talking points on the benghazi attacks. how do you think clinton and her campaign are handling this so far? >> well, you know, this is a problem but the reality is that none of those e-mails contain classified information, as secretary clinton said. it doesn't show any culpability on the part of the administration or the secretary in handling the problem. it doesn't show that there was any deception. so i -- you know this has become very political. this committee in the congress is trying to get some mileage out of it but i don't think they're going to find anything. i think secretary clinton acted appropriately and she's been urging the state department to release all the e-mails that they have and there's no smoking gun there. i don't see it. >> all right. i'm looking at a "new york

times" piece right now in which you are quoted and it says that democrats are getting very nervous about marco rubio. they're concerned he could win over hispanic voters he's young and has a motivational story. do you buy into this? >> well he is attractive. he's going to be a tough candidate. i don't think he will beat jeb bush in the primaries but he's going to be strong. no he has a shifting position on immigration reform. he's for it one day, he's against it one day. that resonates with hispanic voters especially mexican-american voters the majority of the hispanics, maybe 75% in the country. so just because he's hispanic doesn't mean he's going to get the hispanic vote. he is an attractive candidate. he's articulate. he may surprise people but i think the toughest candidate for hillary clinton who i think will be our nominee is jeb bush because he also has substantial hispanic roots with his family

governor of florida, speaks a little spanish, you know so it's going to be an interesting contest. i'm not one of those saying rubio is the republican salvation. he's going to be tough, but i don't see him being automatic with hispanic voters because he's hispanic. >> all right. governor, always good to talk with you on a holiday weekend. thank you for your time. thanks. >> payday loans why did president obama talk about them in a recent speech? we will look at a report on a growing crisis. if you suffer from a dry mouth then you'll know how uncomfortable it can be. but did you know that the lack of saliva can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath? well, there is biotene specially formulated with moisturizers and lubricants... biotene can provide soothing relief and it helps keep your mouth healthy too. biotene, for people who suffer from a dry mouth.

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welcome back to "weekends with alex witt." following this news ireland on the verge of becoming the first country to adopt same-sex marriage by popular vote. the voters have been watching as the officials count the votes the final results are officially due at any moment. the polls closed last flight

about 10:00 p.m. local time and bill neely has more from dublin. >> reporter: it's a big day in ireland, one couple voting yes on their wedding day to same-sex marriage. >> if you want to you should be able to get married to the person you love like we have today. >> reporter: ireland is asking all its people yes or no to gay marriage. the vote counting suggests yes will be the answer. for many it will be a personal victory. >> i'm just asking that the person i love and me be treated the same way any other couple is treated. ♪ >> reporter: ireland was one of europe's most traditional conservative and catholic countries, but the church's power faded, homosexuality and divorce finally becoming legal, two decades ago. but in many rural areas and for many older men, legalizing gay marriage is a step too far, but one they may now have to accept. it's a change ireland's prime minister has pushed.

>> it is about removing discrimination, it is about removing inequality, it's historic and that's why i will be voting yes. >> reporter: for critics of what may become a new law this is a bad day. >> every child has a right to a mother and father and deserves that choice where possible. >> reporter: all the signs suggest campaigners for same-sex marriage can celebrate a historic change as ireland becomes the first country in the world to legalize it in a national vote. >> reporter: and you join me now at dublin castle where the results are coming in thick and fast. a crowd behind me which is celebrating. these are the people who are cheering cheering, the fact that ireland has clearly become the first country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage by popular vote. as you can hear jubilant mood. the results really are quite

extraordinary and some working-class districts of this capital city dublin the result was 80% yes for same-sex marriage, 20% no. i think in any country, and any working-class constituency that's pretty extraordinary. >> it is extraordinary to say the least. i was going to say that we were hearing cheers as your tape was playing there, so bill thank you for bringing us really you're right there on the spot when the momentous aoccasion is happening and it is historic. we see all the rainbow flags in the background and a jubilant crowd. thanks for following the story the last couple days. thank you so much for that. we're going to take you back to cleveland and listen to tim mcginnity the prosecutor, let's take a looks at him. >> sometimes lives are lost in the line of duty. do not mistake this for some anti-police prosecution. this is a pro-police prosecution, pro-citizen

prosecution, and i appreciate the support that i have received from a great number of police on the job and retired, throughout this effort who recognize that this will make a better police department if we have better discipline, if we have better supervision, better training in more numbers as they are seriously understaffed. lesson eight, cleveland has agreed to have an independent police agency handle future use of deadly force investigations. and this office encourages all cities in the county to do likewise. we are looking at patterns across the country. we have patterned from taken cities in the southwest, as our actual pattern, already done this successfully the cleveland -- or rather cuyahoga sheriff cliff pickney has agreed to assume this important responsibility for cleveland and a task force has been formed to handle the use of deadly force

investigations. we appreciate the funding of cuyahoga county and the executive has provided to us. this is an expense to the county to form this task force and dos these independent investigations. you have seen from this trial and others that it takes a great deal of time and investigation to do the scientific and other investigation necessary to examine a case. the city of cleveland agreed to use of the ohio bureau of investigation to independent investigate the heritage middle school case and the bureau of criminal investigation did a tremendous job at great times and expense at times 25 to 40 individual detectives working on this case and i want to personally thank attorney general mike dewine and his commitment to justice. it's greatly appreciated. he has shown a commitment to jus justice throughout this state. he's been a great attorney general. he has shown his commitment

to -- he's been like no other attorney general in my lifetime and he has demonstrated money, commitment, time and man power to prosecute whether it be deadly force cases or the rape kit cases which he's made ohio the leader in the nation in solving these untested rape kits. lesson number nine better laws can discourage felony high-speed failure to comply chases and their subsequent violent endings, by imposing higher and mandatory penalties on the fleers. we also need laws that mandate safer -- and we have done this in the past i led a law in the late '90s that made some mandatory penalties, since been reduced -- seeking to have the higher penalty reimposed. we also need laws that mandate safer policies and more accountability from police departments in high-speed chases. it creates accountability and incentive. these laws will reduce the dangers to innocent motorists

and other police officers. nearly a person dies a day in america from these high-speed chases. and we've never seen a high-speed chase like this before. strong -- and lesson ten, the final lesson i will cite today, that we appreciate strong leadership and sound decision making within the police department byes those sergeants and lieutenants actually in the field and have responsibility to call off unduly dangerous chases is essential. they have to have control. the supervisors must weigh the risk to the public versus the real danger imposed by a fleeing suspect. can police identify the offender by other means via license plates, is this a traffic ticket or a murderer fleeing, day or night, light or heavy traffic? the distance covered, the speeds et cetera. most important, is the offense or offender being chased worth the real risk of killing innocent civilians or other

police. these are difficult decisions that must be made in the field and that's why there's rules and regulations regarding number of officers that can be involved and how closely they should be monitored. each individual police officer can call off his or her own chase and in this case many officers did and we appreciate the fact and it should be noted police officers and leaders in the first fourth and fifth districts refused to allows the zone cars to join the chase that grew out of control. going forward the policy of the office will continue to be all use of deadly force cases by police in cuyahoga county will be reviewed and decided by the grand jury as was this case. after a complete and thorough investigation, the results will be presented to the grand jury and any additional evidence from the grand jury's desire to have additional evidence will be on tands and presented to them as requested. if they that grand jury believes the civilian death at

then hands of the police not justifiable use of deadly force under ohio law and the guylines created by the supreme court of the united states the grand jury will bring charges against those involved and we will prosecute. this ultimately in all cases or thus ultimately in all cases the decision will go back to the people. it is also the policy of this office to make public the independent investigations of police actions. we did so in this case with the bci investigation, of a vol luminous accounting of the investigation. our pursuit of justice for timothy russell and malissa williams is not over. five police officers have been charged with dereliction of duty by the grand jury and prosecuted by this office for failing to control the reckless and potentially deadly police chase that ensued in this case. we look forward to presenting another vigorous prosecution on behalf of the state of ohio the

people of cuyahoga county and the victims' families. today's verdict is part of a sea of change that began over two years ago with this case and others across the nation. this case prompted the united states department of justice and governor john kasic and the attorney general mike dewine to investigate the patterns and practices of police departments, including cleveland's, around the state. these investigations have highlighted areas where help is needed or deficiencies exist, including training accountability and transparency although not fully implemented changes for the better have already begun. this is a different country than it was two and a half years ago on november 29th. the department of justice investigation continues and we are confident practices will improve and benefit the city of cleveland from whatever the results of their findings and agreement is. our goal is to improve the quality of justice that our

citizens receive. this tragic experience has already forced a culture change within the division of police and a needed reexamination of the use of deadly force. the end result will be less secrecy, additional transparency and accountability. citizens and police themselves will be the safer for it. this was a challenging case no doubt, but i would notes hesitate to do it again if the facts and law demand it. i was proud of our effort to seek justice in this case and we will continue to seek justice on behalf of the people. i am -- i do not want to answer questions that are sought to inflame the situation. so i will entertain questions throughout e-mails. >> okay. everybody. you're listening to tim mcginnity the prosecutor reacting to this morning where a judge there has found that the police officer michael brelo was found not guilty on all charges that would include voluntary manslaughter in the 2012 shooting deaths of timothy

russell and malissa williams both found shot to death inside their car, called the 137 shots case, that's what it was called. they were killed unarmed inside that car, but what he is most importantly talking about is the lessons learned and the steps that the cleveland police department will take going forward to learn from those lessons and make changes. we're going to have a discussion in our next hour coming up on reaction to what the prosecutor said and whether those changes he is saying will be imposed will make a difference going forward. meantime payday loans, why did president obama talk about them in a recent speech? a report on a growing crisis coming up. plus 10 gigs of shareable data. yeah, 10 gigantic gigs. for $80 a month. and $15 per line. more data than ever. for more of what you want. on the network that's #1 in speed, call, data, and reliability. so you never have to settle. $80 a month. for 10 gigs. and $15 per line.

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who run these things in theory what they'll say is these loans help you deal with a one-time expense. in reality, most payday loans aren't taken out for one-time expenses. they're taken out to pay for previous loans. you borrow money to pay for the money you already borrowed. as ollie will tell you, you find yourselves trapped in a cycle of debt. >> bring in journalist sarah who wrote about the crisis for "the guardian." explain how people get caught up in what the president is calling the cycle of debt? >> what he said was true. they take out loans for sometimes a one-time short-term expense, but often things like rent or groceries and kind of, you know everyday feeds that people simply can't afford as a result of a low wage economy. they take out the loan and the problem with the loan is the interest. payday loan interest is often

uncapped. in missouri it's uncapped and can be high as 1900%, an average between 200 and 500%. the person who had little money to begin with gets trapped paying back not only the loan but interest and chooses to roll over the loan and take out a repeated a amount of loans which adds up in the long run. >> sarah, how do lenders get away with charging these kinds of amounts, this kind of interest? >> well, there's very little regulation. in 2012 in missouri there was a failed ballot initiative to cap the interest rate at 36%. you look at that number 36%, an extremely high interest rate but, you know, that's honestly a goal for these industries. there's not much regulation. payday loan companies have a lot of influence with politicians and there's a lot of reluctant among the political elite to crack down on these predatory lenders. >> what kind of recourse does a borrower have? >> they can try to take on

litigation, often, you know, the payday loan companies trap people in the litigated process. part of the problem it's difficult to have a class action loan because it goes through an arbitrator and so that's been a problem is that, you know, as president obama said there are millions of people trapped in this situation who are, you know, sharing the same problems but it's difficult for them to unify together. so the best bet would be a change in legislation that would cap the interest rates. other things are, you know, people are unbanked they don't have access to basic financial services and if banks and credit unions would make more of an effort to reach out to the poor and vulnerable populations that would help. a greater financial literacy among the populations would be helpful as well. >> is anyone right now looking out for people borrowing in these states? >> yeah. you know there's been federal initiatives. there's been activism within every state. each state varies in its

policies. in missouri there was a lot of activism towards trying to cap these rates, but there's been sort of funny business with people trying to stop that. in miss suri they tried to get it on the ballot and for reasons unclear a lot of nurse were deemed invalid. that's been a problem in that, you know, people can't really get a campaign together when there's people that are actively trying to sabotage it for their own material interests. >> sounds like a heck of a problem. thank you very much for reporting on it for us. we appreciate that. >> another weekend gathering of republican contenders. why is today's any different than previous ones? i accept that i'm not 21. i accept i'm not the sprinter i was back in college. i even accept that i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat, not caused by a heart valve problem. but i won't accept giving it less than my best. so if i can go for something better than warfarin ...i will. eliquis. eliquis...

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gop presidential candidates both declared and likely are gathered in oklahoma city this weekend weekend. >> we need someone who can fight

and win, not just at the ballot box, but can fight and win the battles we need to move this country forward with common sense conservative reforms. that's what we need to move america forward. >> our enemies need to twitch a little bit, fear us a little bit. that's how you bring security and peace in the world. >> i'm the only person in the national conversation at the moment who has used the patriot act, signed off on it and convicted terrorists because of it. >> next time you vote for president of the united states make sure that you're voting for a commander in chief that knows what the hell they're doing. >> joining me now from oklahoma city msnbc's jane tim with a welcome to you. i know the straw poll results are due to be announced about ap hour or so from now, who were the standouts at this convenience frens? >> -- conference? >> scott walker had a strong performance, we saw him have a well received speech national security force, strong on busting unions and sort of taking on progressives and taking them and winning

elections. but the real standout for me was governor chris christie. he had a very, very well received speech. he had a sweeping oratory, did very well spoke a lot on budgets and national security, two strong points for him. he has a great record on balancing budgets and his history of prosecution as a u.s. attorney that did very well with this crowd. we saw the clip earlier about using the patriot act. he made the people in congress who were delayed from coming to this event, actually canceled trips to this event because they're voting on the patriot act today or last night, he made them look like irresponsible children who didn't know what they were doing and he came off very, very well. he usually avoids these cattle calls and tends to his own personal events but this one he came out strong. >> i'm curious about carly fiorina, talk about the reception she's getting? >> i just watched her, snuck out right before she finished. pretty tepid response.

she's done well in iowa recently and when you sit in a room with her the crowd booms with what she says. her speech was struggling a little bit, losing the rhythm of her speech struggling to build the momentum someone like chris christie nailed. she and jeb bush struggled this weekend to get in a rhythm with this crowd and build the connection quickly. it's hard to do. others definitely seemed to excel where she flailed. >> good to see you. thanks, jane. >> new reaction in cleveland to the breaking news. the verdict in the so-called 137 shots case the mayor of cleveland is due to speak at any moment. we will bring you his comments live on msnbc. ♪ take me into your darkest hour ♪ ♪ and i'll never desert you ♪ ♪ i'll stand by you ♪ yeaaaah! yeah. so that's our loyalty program. you're automatically enrolled, and the longer you stay, the more rewards you get. great! oh! ♪ i'll stand by you ♪ ♪ won't let nobody hurt you ♪

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breaking news here at the top of the hour on with the weekends with alex witt" from cleveland where a judge found police officer michael brelo not guilty on all charges including voluntary manslaughter, in connection with the 2012 fatal shootings of timothy russ andle

and malissa williams both unarmed. the incident known as the 137 shots case because of the number of bullets fired by 13 police officers at the end of a high-speed chase. officer brelo firing the most shots, 49 total, but his last 15 shots resulted in the voluntary manslaughter charges. prosecutors say those shots were fired from the hood of russell's car down into the windshield with the intent to kill since at that point the car was stopped and the occupants did not pose a threat. this chase began after russell's 1979 chevy malibu back fired as it drove past police headquarters. that gave officers the impression someone fired a gun. melissa williams' brother had this reaction after the verdict was read. >> malissa williams and timothy russell was living before they got on top of the hood of the car and start shoot into the windshield. if he would have never got on top of the hood of the car they

would be living today. >> officer brelo waived his right to a jury and did not take the stand during the trial. joining me by phone nbc's scott newell. with regard to what you heard from the prouses prosecutor in the case, talk about that. we took that live as well. >> well essentially was they felt that officer brieelo fired the shots that were the fatal shots and the judge said no there were several shots that could have been fatal and it was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the ones officer brelo fired were the fatal ones. the judge did make it a point to walk over to the two mannequins in the courtroom, showed the wounds of each victim and described in detail which one could have come from officer brelo's gun. the judge made his decision that he did not feel that they could with certainty determine that the bullets that came into those

victims, came from officer brelo's gun. >> okay. scott, stay with us, as we listen to the cleveland mayor, frank jackson, making statements in the case. let's take a listen. >> strong determination, demotion and suspension without pay. in addition there will be rulings in -- on the tamir rice case and the tanesha anderson case in the future. at the same time the city is in continuing negotiation with the department of justice to reach a consent decree to ensure they're greater accountability and transparency in the division of police. we have accomplished great deal as a community we know there is much more that what we have to do. again, i want to emphasize that this is a defining moment for cleveland. as we look at this verdict, and we respond to that verdict, and

we as a city move ahead in a way that will ensure that whatever is the injustices may be will no longer happen again. i want to turn this over to chief calvin williams who will go through the process of what we will do post this verdict in terms of police action around disciplinary actions. chief? >> today's announcement and the verdict of patrol officer michael brelo marks a defining time for the city and for this police department. it i important to note that we still have a lot of hard work to do regarding the events that took place on november 29 2012. i will explain the steps that we are going to take to move forward here. but first, i want to recap

what's already been -- the actions that have already been taken by both the city and division of police. in 2013 the division of police convened a critical incident review committee to look over the incident on november 29th of 2012. this critical incident review committee is comprised of members of the homicide unit the use of deadly force investigation team the integrity control section, the field operations section, as well as three civilians. one from the office of professional standards, one from the community relations board, and one community liaison along with a member of the city's law department. the committee was tasked with reviewings the completed bci investigation that was conducted

in this incident, and also to conduct their own independent investigation. all records and electronic data were reviewed, police supervisors and officers involved in the pursuit were questioned, the route of the pursuit was driven several times by the committee members to ensure and determine the accuracy of the officers' statements. upon completion of the committee's investigation, the results and recommendations were forwarded to the chief of police. in the interest of transparency and openness to our community, the division of police conducted a press conference at which time a power point presentation was given that put all the evidence that the committee reviewed and the conclusions out there for everybody. this review in 2013 focused

solely on the officers that were involved in the pursuit and notes the officers involved in the use of deadly force. that investigation resulted in the following. 72 officers were suspended without pay with dates ranging from one day to 30 days. one supervisor was terminated. and two supervisors were demoted. three officers had administrative charges dismissed due to no finding by the committee of administrative violations or procedures. the administrative process now surrounding officer brelo and the 12 other officers involved in the use of deadly force with continue with the critical incident review committee. regarding officer brelo, officer brelo will remain on unpaid suspension from the division of

police. upon completion of the critical incident committee's review their findings will be forwarded to my office where i will review those findings and submit them to our case preparation officer to prepare administrative charges for violations observed by that committee. the case preparation officer will notify the officers involved in writing of those charges and hearing dates will be set either with myself or the director of public safety for those officers. as stated earlier, this is another step in a long process to move us forward through this incident on november 29th of 2012. the people of the city can be assured that we the administration and the division of police will make sure that any and all violations of our

policies and procedures are dealt with to the fullest extent possible. the citizens of this city have set a standard over the last six months in how they interact and force change and the reform of not only the cleveland division of police but of the criminal justice system. and i have been proud to be a clevelander during that time because our people have come out and demonstrated and voiced their concerns and their first amendment rights in a peaceful proactive fashion. and we've listened to that. and i want to make sure that people understand that the way we get this thing done is together as a city and the fashion that we've done over the last six months. this is not over. there are still things that the division of police and the city are in the process of doing to make sure that our community knows we are here to protect and serve them.

i want to make sure that people understand that we are out there for our community and that our officers are a part of this community. day in and day out, we go out there to protect and serve. and our community has that right to go out there and voice their concerns and we've done that. and we expect people to continue to do that. at this time calmer heads have to prevail. cleveland has set a standard and i want to ensure that we continue to set that standard as we move forward. thank you. >> any questions? yes, sir. >> all right. they're going to start taking questions. the man you see there, cleveland mayor frank jackson, preceded by the cleveland police chief calvin williams talking about officer michael brelo having been found on two counts not guilty of involuntary

manslaughter and it was said earlier by the cuyahoga prosecutor who took to this case and believed there was a reason to take isto this case and have officer brelo prosecuted said this is not the end of the justice in this case. he will continue seeking justice for the two victims in the case timothy russell and malissa williams killed on the 29th of november, 2012 the result of the 137 case which refers to the shots fired into their car. the last 15 of which were delivered by officer michael brelo as he literally stood on top of their car. you can see evidence right there of what the car looked like. they were found to be unarmed. but they say that justice will continue. they have other officers cited in the case and very interesting point we should let you know the department of justice is also following this case and we have a newly released statement from the head of the civil rights division who says in part it has been monitoring the extensive investigation that's been conducted around the events

of november 29, 2012 we will now review the testimony and evidence presented in that state trial. we will continue our assessment review all available legal options and will collaboratively determine what if any additional steps are available and appropriate given the requirements and limitations of the applicable laws in the federal judicial system. let's bring in an msnbc legal analyst, former criminal prosecutor with a welcome to you, your reaction to the verdict, how do you see that? >> well the judge took a lot of time explainings the verdict and the reason why he came to the conclusion that he did. it was a tough case going in. the prosecutors knew that. i think it's why the defense waived a jury rile. they wanted case to go before the judge and simply argue the facts and law and not have a decision based on emotional arguments ta could have played well in front of a jury. so the judge basically talked about two things. a causation issue with a

voluntary manslaughter charge. he did not find that state proved that causation issue, that these bullets that this officer fired, were the cause of death for the individuals and then even on top of that alex i think that it would have been an acquittal because he found even on a felonious assault charge, that the officer was justified in his actions and he took a lot of time explaining how he found the justification and it was the facts in the circumstances surrounding the shooting and everything that led up to this officer's decision to get on the hood of the car and fire all of those additional shots. he found that in the end the officer's actions were just fide. >> look, this is one incident like this but comes during a time we've seen so many other police shooting cases. we've seen these recently and the judge even took the police to task here. take a listen to what he had to say. >> every week i pass a mound of stuffed animals left in memory

of the 12-year-old that many people believe was murdered by the police. this animosity toward the police is fed not just by stories the tv watchers and internet clickers are attracted to but by police officers affronts intended or not, to honest people treated as criminals, by unnecessarily brutal treatment of suspected arrestees, by daily slights and disrespect real and imagined, and by the isolation of the police from the people they serve. >> faith, i want to let you know my executive producer got in my ear told me they've been monitoring what the police chief has been saying in a q&a session and said they're concerned about outside agitators coming into cleveland, working things up so it could potentially get dangerous, unruly there. how much of an impact do you

think overall the other high-profile cases might have played not only in the decision of the judge, but in what's to come? >> first, i want to say it's highly unusual a judge would make that kind of commentary and giving a verdict in a particular case usually they will stick to the facts and the law and their decision and their comments are very narrowly construed to reflect that. however, alex this judge recognizes the environment that we -- that he is faced with in this community on the heels of the tamir rice shooting and the killing of tamir rice and everything else that's taken place in this country in the last several months with the killing of several unarmed people of color by the police. he is aware of that. this is another one of those cases where you have individuals who are unarmed and they are fired upon at least 137 shots on the face of that, it looks like excessive force. why would you fire 137 shots

against two individuals who are unarmed if so he gave a backdrop to his decision. he talked about that because he understands that also the department of justice has found that the cleveland police department has engaged in a pattern and practice of excessive force. knowing that his decision was going to be an acquittal i think he wanted to take time to address those issues and say, i'm not considering this case just in a vacuum i'm not in a bubble, i'm aware of everything else going around that's going on in our country. >> i want to make sure people are aware, the 137 shots, they are attributed to a total of 13 police officers. >> yes. >> 49 of those shots to the man who was on trial, officer michael brelo. again found not guilty of involuntary manslaughter on two counts there. the ones that were in question were the 15 shots at the end that he got up on top of the hood of the car in which mr. russell and miss williams were sitting. it was suggested earlier, faith, by an attorney on with me the last hour that prosecutors, the

coroner, everybody investigating this, came to the conclusion that these two were already dead, if you will before the last 15 shots were fired. how might that have played into the case if, indeed, that's the truth. >> that's a significant factor because you're talking about that -- and that's why the judge did not find that causation by the state was proved because this officer and the reason why he's the one on trial here for voluntary manslaughter it was his conduct at the very end. he climbed on top of the roof of the car and then started -- the hood of the car and started firing those additional shots. the judge wanted evidence to prove that those were the shots that caused their death because when you have so many other officers involved and so many other shots fired, but this one officer is on trial for manslaughter, you have to prove the elements of the crime against this one officer. those other officers aren't there. and so then that's why he made the decision the causation proving that this officer is responsible for those fatal

shots, and it was those shots at the end he found that those elements had not been proven in that. >> in terms of what the justice department is tasked with now, faith, we've got ferguson, missouri, baltimore, maryland and now this, in cleveland, ohio, talk about the weight on the department of justice and the fact that these are all coming within a very concentrated time period. >> right. it's a tremendous weight right now, because you have to understand that in a lot of these communities, there's been an erosion of public confidence in the police because of cases like this, a lot of people are going to feel like once again, a police officer was not held accountable. there are others who are going to be completely supportive of this verdict. and so there's the issue of not only a pattern and practice of excessive police use of force, also a pattern and practice of a retaliatory use of force against individuals who resist arrest and then you have that on top of this public erosion of trust in

the community, so the department of justice is obviously aware of that. they looked at the cleveland police department. this was one of the cases that they looked at when they came to their conclusion that this department needed some help needed more training of its police officers. there were some issues to address and now, of course, be there's been an acquittal in this case. they have to take this into consideration in their decisions to move forward with -- and work with the police department in cleveland. >> all right. faith jenkins thank you for weighing in. let all of our viewers know we will continue to monitor any press conferences that come and any developments and bring you the latest later on in this hour. the man askew -- accused of murdering a wealthy man and his family may not have acted alone. court investigators believe the crime required the presence and assistance of more than one person. the documents also show police found some inconsistencies with witness statements. wint was arrested thursday in washington. five were taken into custody but all have been released.

adam reese is in washington for us. adam with a god day to you, what do we know about the inconsistencies in the witness statements? >> hi alex. an employee of mr. savopoulos who drove him to and from work every day, he has given inconsistent reports to the police as to what he did with the $40,000 on the night of the murders, where he picked it up how he dropped it off, when he dropped it off. he was supposed to leave it in a car in the garage behind me on the front seat. whether or not that car door was locked he has given differing accounts. whether or not he was complicit in the murders we don't know alex? >> okay. and the suspect, what do we know about him, his background previous arrests? what do we know? >> he came to the united states from guiana in 2000. in 2003 we know that he started working for american iron works for about two years as a welder. we know in 2001 he attempted to join the marines that lasted for

a couple months and then he was discharged. nbc spoke to a form attorney yesterday. here's what he had to say. >> they've got the wrong guy. they ought to be checking out people who have been convicted of torturing animals, people who have been convicted of torturing other people beings. he's a nice guy and wouldn't hurt a fly. >> now we don't know about a motive other than money and in terms of the acost com polices we don't know about anything about them. >> thank you so much from washington. outside that mansion in which those people tragically lost their lives. thank you so much. coming up more on isis what's happening in ramadi and we know that will are many militia men on the ground trying to take back that city from control of isis. we have colonel jack jacobs joining us after a short break. stay with us. sfx: engine sounds

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like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. i accept that i'm not as fast, but i'm still going for my personal best... and for eliquis. reduced risk of stroke... plus less major bleeding. ask your doctor... if eliquis is right for you. ♪ if you're looking for a car that drives you... ...and takes the wheel right from your very hands... ...this isn't that car. the first and only car with direct adaptive steering. ♪ the 328 horsepower q50 from infiniti.

today the iraqi army and slight militias are launching a counter offensive after the city fell to isis this week. reports that they have freed a small city about 4 1/2 miles outside of ramadi. joining me jack jacobs medal of honor recipient and military analyst. i know you said this morning that it would not be too difficult for the combined force to retake the city but as you and is discussed so many times in the past taking a city is one thing and hanging on to it is something completely different. >> it's going to be in this case as well. the isis forces not all that large, and there are a large number of people in the militias. i'm not so sure there are very many iraqi soldiers involved but the surely the shiite militia force is several thousand. some have put it maybe 3 1/2 or 4,000, may be bigger than that. but taking a lot of objectives

in my time been thrown off about half of the time. you always have to reinforce success. it always takes more resources to hold on than it does to take it in the first place. and that may be the case in this instance too, because we have to remember that these are shia militias and this is very much a sunni neighborhood. >> this is, in fact, the heart of the sunni province there, anbar province. so we have to also remember that this sort of sectarian divide is what got iraq into the mess in the first place. so how concerned are you about the prospects of a massacre and can this cycle of violence be stopped? >> well if there isn't some retribution that takes place, if as and when the shia mill slish shahs take over it will be the first time that ever happens so i think you can expect sectarian violence which as you say is the basis of all this be the cycle of violence you know i've been thinking about that a lot, we haven't seen an end to it and we

probably won't see an end to it any time soon and ironically, the way -- the way they'll stop it is by having some leadership and that in the past that's meant a blood thirsty des pit. strong leadership is the only way to keep that place together and maybe joe biden who years ago said this was right at the time, he said we were going to do it but we're not going to do it, but that the country may dissolve into its component pieces shia kurd and sunni and be three separate institutions altogether. >> we'll see if that happens. there's a reliable syrian monitoring group which said this week that isis controls a full half of syria. that includes the majority of the country's oil and gas fields. what are you hearing about the assad government and the ability to stay in power? >> they're not going to stay in there forever and they may not be able to stay in there much longer.

nobody seems to want to be able to do anything about it. everybody's working on the sidelines. and i can tell you this everybody who's interested in the area of the united states and russia and iran are already planning for circumstance in which there is no assad regime anymore. the interesting thing is that we have been fighting on the side of iran in iraq. and we're fighting on the other side in syria. as big a pes as iraq is syria is much bigger and when the assad regime falls it's going to be extremely difficult not only for the syrians but for the entire region sectarian violence will really escalate then and i don't think anybody is capable of stopping it. >> colonel jack jacobs sobering to say the least, thank you very much. what caused that huge oil spill in california and what could be done to prevent it from ever happening again? that's coming up.

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welcome back to "weekends with alex witt." breaking news out of cleveland where a judge found police officer michael brelo not guilty on all charges including voluntary manslaughter. this in connection with the 2012 fatal shootings of timothy russell and malissa williams both who were unarmed. the incident known as the 137 shots case because of the number of bullets fired by the 13 police officers at the end of a high-speed chase. officer brelo himself fired the most shots, 49 total, but his last 15 shots resulted in the voluntary manslaughter charges. prosecutors say those shots were fired from the hood of russell's car straight down into the windshield with the intent to kill since at that point the car was stopped and the occupants did not pose a threat. the chase began after russell's 1979 malibu backfired after it was driving by police headquarters that gave officers the impression someone in the car fired a gun. malissa williams' brother had

this reaction after the verdict was read. >> malissa williams and timothy russell was living before he got on top of the hood of the car and started to shoot into the windshield. if he would have never got on top of the hood of the car they would be living today. >> officer brelo waived his right to a jury and did not take the stand during the trial. let's bring in jim cavanagh msnbc analyst and agent in charge for the atf with. a welcome to you are you surprised by this verdict? >> i am a little bit but the judge made a technical ruling. i'm surprised because i think the officer's action standing on the hood of the car and firing into the two people here who committed no crime, were unarmed, it's just outrageous police behavior. i will not be surprised if the chief fires the officer. but i think the judge made a very technical decision here alex by saying he couldn't or that people were already decreased in the vehicle and this would not be manslaughter on the shots of the hood of the

car and that the shots prior to that they argued his defense attorneys argued could be justified use of force as the officer thought he was being fired upon when it was shows from other police. this whole thing was a total disaster poorly supervised outrageous police conduct with the chase. this officer on the hood of the car firing into these two folks who did nothing wrong. just cleveland police has to be revamped. the chief saying they're doing that. it's an outrageous case in my view. >> you say you think officer brelo should be fired. we should make a point to say the chief of police says he's under indefinite suspension not paid, everything will be reviewed. that could be the outcome. tell me jim, how this happens. 137 shots by 13 police officers. i mean you mentioned that the police chief has said look there's going to a lot of review, we will make some changes here but how does that even happen in the first place? it seems so incredibly out of control.

>> right. it is incredibly out of control. it's policemen firing what we call contagious fire. they hear shots, so they think they should shoot as well. you know when you're in a situation of being involved in a shoot-out, it doesn't mean you have to shoot your gun. you have to pull out your gun and just start pulling the trigger which is what's happening here. these two people are innocent. their car backfired. they're not committing a crime. why everybody is shooting at them is outrageous. officers have to use restraint. people want the strong silent type in their police. people that have the ability to be restrained and not pull the trigger unless they absolutely have to pull the trigger and then we want to back them up because they had to. this is just reckless in my view, the whole thing. i mean there's going to be administrative and disciplinary action. so sad for the family civil suits and so forth. i think the judge made a very technical decision. i think the prosecutor mcginnity i think they moved forward as

best they could. they thought this was the right way to go by centering on the conduct of the officer on the hood of the car and took it on and went with it. the justice system is always weighed in favor of innocence for every single person even the police. it's always grossly weighted. that's the way we want our democracy in favor of innocence and quite a hill to climb to get reasonable doubt. it's the same doubt officers experience in the field if they can transfer that doubt to the jury's mind it's hard to get a conviction in a police case even when one might be required. >> i'm curious we did listen to prosecutor mcginnity that outlined a number of steps they will take and try to implement for change among them being training. but my question to you is how much will training kick in when those emotions of that inyou stan tains you pop you think you're being fired at as a police officer how much will that help abate the reaction of just pointing your gun and shooting? >> yeah.

that can be trained. a lot of training can accompany when to shoot, don't shoot scenarios and in more involved police scenarios. one of the things that's as big as training is command and control. the sergeant on the ground like eisenhower said the sergeant is the army. the sergeant is the police as well and the lieutenants. they have to call it off. in each of these disasters we see sergeants and lieutenants involved, who don't stop the beating, don't stop an aggressive case like this. if you're going to be in charge if you're going to wear the stripes, going to wear the lieutenant badge, take action stop and slow it down or speed it up when necessary. a lot of time it's a failure of command and that can be trained as well. nobody can make it right all the time. we understand. but some of these things are so blatantly called for stop beating this man when there's a ranking officer standing there, the police have got to stop. the officer, the ranking officer has to stop. in this case that's who should have stopped the case.

>> all right. msnbc analyst jim cavanagh always a pleasure thank you so much. a new report this past week on an apparent hacking on a u.s. plane. the news surfaced after an incident last month. the fbi questioned a security researcher they believed said was able to hack aircraft command systems. let's bring in "washington post" technology reporter andrea peterson to talk about this. to say this is scary is an understatement. i mean was there a real threat? >> i think that it's a complicated question. chris roberts, the security researcher, would say no. one of the things is that security researchers jobs are to try to find issues with systems so companies can help fix them but because that's his job, that also means that what he's trying to look into are things that could be potentially very real problems. there's also a government accountability office report from last month that raised a lot of questions about whether or not the connecttivity that passengers now enjoy in

airplanes, like through on board wi-fi systems and entertainment systems, could increase the risk of security in airplanes. >> how could passenger wi-fi do that really make an entire plane vulnerable? >> so the question is whether or not they're separating the systems. so if you're relying on the same general infrastructure for your on board wi-fi as your in-flight systems there's a potential risk there. you know most airplane manufacturers are saying no our systems are separate but the gao report noted that the separation is oftentimes firewalls and firewalls are a form of software and just like other kinds of software security researchers believe they can be broken. >> okay. i know that some of these concerns go back years. the faa was warning apparently about one manufacturer back in 2008 about potential security flaws. boeing and air bus both coming under fire for that. these are the two largest commercial jet makers we should

add here. they said their systems are secure. so do you think security systems overall can keep up with malicious mall ware? >> i think a lot of security researchers would say no. one of the issues that we're releasing with this is that attackers can go after things over and over and over again. and they only need to succeed once for things to be successfully breached. it's a really asymmetrical kind of warfare if you will in the digital space. >> okay. andrea petterson from "the washington post" thanks so much. appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> how could it happen? the fallout from that california oil pipeline break is cleanup and lots of questions. that's next. mited talk and text. plus 10 gigs of shareable data. yeah, 10 gigantic gigs. for $80 a month. and $15 per line. more data than ever. for more of what you want. on the network that's #1 in speed, call, data, and reliability.

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this memorial day weekend. msnbc's scott cohen in santa barbara with us, and i understand you just spoke with the coast guard. what did they tell you? >> they're making progress alex, but when you think about memorial day weekend on the beach, that's not what you want to see. still a great deal of cleanup going on. you can see that cleanup is going on both on land and in the water. some of the most visible signs of the oil spill are gone the oil slick seems to have dissipated. but there is still oil coated rocks back there and they're trying to skim away any oil coated seaweed and things like that. so while some of those most visible signs are gone the coast guard is saying this operation is far from over. >> it's hard to put a timeline on a job like this. we still have a lot of rock here that needs to be addressed. it's something they go day by day and see what tide cycles do. do we get new oil on the beaches, maintaining cleanliness to an extent. what do we need to do and how do we need to adjust and then

readjust. >> nonetheless, two state beaches closed until now june 4th so this memorial day weekend spoiled and then some. alex? >> absolutely. and talk about spoiling in terms of the impact on the local business community. what's that been like? >> it's interesting, the pictures are scary and yet it is a small area. it's about less than eight miles of beach and it's mainly these beaches and so a lot of the businesses in santa barbara, which is 20 miles from here are saying look we're open it's not as bad as it seems in that small area. so they're trying to get the word out that it's not as bad as it seems. they're going to have an impact because people are scared away. >> thank you so much. appreciate the live shot of the beautiful beaches. joining me now, chris woodward. with a welcome to you, i'm curious about the company that owns this pipeline. what can you tell us about the

company, have they been involved in other incidents like this? what's the history there? >> plains all american has been involved in pipelines all across the country for quite a while. the big issue about what's their safety record. probing done "the los angeles times" found they've had 175 violations since 2006 which appears to be ahead of the industry. now the company is saying we're going to do everything we can, we don't care what it costs, we're going to make sure this gets cleaned up. it's kind of an interesting situation now between the regulators and the company and what kind of regulation or whatever we see come out of this. >> chris there's got to be a federal agency that overseas pipeline safety right? are they doing their job when you put those kinds of numbers out there, seems like this particular company is remiss. >> absolutely. i wrote 20 years ago about pipeline safety and these kind of issues just continually keep coming up. yes, there are strong federal laws writ be about pipeline safety, they come out of

disasters, often times with the loss of life unlike this one where there was no loss of life. this pipeline accident occurred in one of the most sensitive environmental places in the entire country. there's no more pristine coast or beautiful scenery or marine mammals and fish and birds involved than that area in santa barbara. so it almost makes you wonder whether the regulations fit that kind of scenario. >> yeah. i'm going to ask you a question regarding technical stuff here. that's has been reported in the "l.a. times" as investigators are trying to determine what the caused the rupture officials say the pipeline was the only large transmission line in santa barbara county not fitted with an automatic shutdown valve. is it possible to your knowledge that a pipeline this big, can be allowed to operate without one of those automatic valves? >> well this one certainly was. now the company had a waiver. the company has owned this

pipeline since 1998 and had a waiver and it was perfectly legal not to have to have a shutoff valve in this case. in retrospect how could this have happened? again, this wasn't oklahoma this wasn't midland, texas. this was the most sensitive environmental real estate in the country. this pristine coast, a state beach. so it really makes you wonder why regulators weren't more adamant about, you know, particularly with all the time that's gone by some sort of automatic shutoff there. >> chris, help me understand that. you've hit the nail on the head there. how does a company likes this not have an automatic shutdown valve based on all the reasons you gave us? is that commonplace in the industry? >> well, the answer is they were following the rules. they had a waiver. they weren't required to have a shutoff valve. in their book that was okay. now, you know, if i were their lawyers or maybe some others in the industry might be saying well look where this pipeline

is located. even though we have a waiver is this maybe the best idea that we not have some sort of extra protection on this line. you know the industry has tried to deal with these issues forever. they will continue to deal with them. the industries's major line is that pipelines are the safest way to transport these very dangerous liquids in the country, far safer than rail or truck. >> yeah. okay. until something like this happens. >> and that's a pretty good comeback but then something like this happens. >> right. >> sometimes these disasters involve loss of life sometimes you're dealing with liquids that can combust and we have big explosions. so it's always, always a very picklish issue. >> chris from "usa today," thanks. >> thank you. >> the biggest and best movies to see this summer we've got the short list next. end every waking moment, thinking about people? why are we so committed to keeping you connected? why combine performance with a conscience?

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the summer blockbuster season and topping the list of anticipated movies is juror as ebbing world, which is the fourth installment in the franchise. >> we have our first genetically modified hybrid. >> this is a made for you dinosaur. probably want a good idea. >> evacuate the island. ♪ >> she's a highly intelligent animal. she will kill anything that moves. >> oh god. >> jurassi country world starring chris pat opens nationwide being distributed by universal pictures, which is of course, own and is the parent company here of msnbc. joining us now entertainment reporter nicki novak. with a welcome to you. >> good seeing you again. >> what kind of numbers are we talking about for jurassic world? >> this year predicting drars 130 million the opening weekend, which is absolutely huge. it's going to be the biggest opening of the summer undoubtedly.

dmroo it has staying power, right? >> yeah. >> this is the kind of thing that has seen the first, second, third installment, they're going to go again. >> it has dinosaur legs. this is a movie. it's got universal appeal. i want to see it. i'm a woman. guys want to see it. they want to see it with their buddies. it's a family movie. it has no pun intended universal appeal. >> that's okay. we appreciate the pun. i'm dying to see "aupt rauj." this is based on the hbo series of the same title. it opens next wednesday. >> yeah. >> let's check out a few of the cameo appearances, and you'll talk about that. >> oh yeah. ♪ >> open the door. >> yo vinnie your girlfriend lock you out again? >> my co-financier. >> my boys will break that door down right now. he is crazy. >> i'm crazy. >> i guess the question is who is not in it in a cameo? what's the strategy there? >> okay. well, first of all i spoke to

the cast and i spoke to the director earlier this year and i talked to them about all the cameos and they said they were even star-struck. they were even surprised by the number of people that agreed to sign up for this movie. doug said he would just sort of throw it out to people, and he thought it was going to be a logistical nightmare, and everybody was on board. i don't think it's a strategy to begin with but it just kept going and going. common was apparently working out at a gym in l.a., and they came in to shoot a scene, and they said do you want to be in the movie, and he said absolutely. i'm going to till a little joke instead of saying i see dead people, i think he said i see famous people. over 50 cameos, and i would go to see this film and get off my couch just to see all the store power. >> okay. i have to confess, i am binge watching the entire series with my kids. some people are, like really? who you're a mom? every once in a while i say you should leave the room. i'm do doing it before the film

comes out. it's a lot of fun to get ready for it. i want to talk about some of the movies already out this weekend. tomorrowland currently ties another universal movie pitch perfect 2. $10 million a piece, and they're followed by the remaking of poltergeist and mad max fury road. and then the avenger series. the sequels, are they what you can really count on big bang for your bucks? >> it will continue the rest of the summer with terminator. it seems to be the summer of the sequel, the reboot the remake what have you. i think filmmakers and producers and studios know they can bank on an audience that's already built in and creating a new fan base could be difficult these days. whether it's -- it creates a fan base via tv or via book and they turn it into a film and have a reboot, it's guaranteed numbers and guaranteed, you know you have to guarantee set fan base that will come and see the film. >> that would include you and me. i think that's for a lot of these films. just so people know, our kids are old enough to watch

entourage. i don't want people thinking i'm a terrible mom. >> people are going to be writing into you, i guarantee it. >> i appreciate it. that's a wrap of this edition of "weekends with alex witt." see you back here. up next caught on camera. have a good one. ...this isn't that car. the first and only car with direct adaptive steering. ♪ the 328 horsepower q50 from infiniti.

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and anoro is helping people with copd breath air better. get your first prescription free at anoro.com. >> dhoe battle with the armed and dangerous. >> shooting pursuits. really, really bad. >> handle some of the most unexpected predick amounts. >> it's a hard thing to watch for a lot of people. >> and react quickly when routine situations suddenly turn perilous. >> worst thing is -- >> police officers put their lives on the line every day and in their arsenal they have a silent witness that can speak volumes. >> put the gun down man. >> this hour suspenseful stories seen through the unblinking eye of the