let's listen to what bill murray said. >> love conquers all. it really does. and there is no law, there's no constitution, there's no amendment that can say it's more powerful than love. and love, if you have love, god bless you. >> chris matthews is up next. thanks, tom goldstein. rand paul blows the whistle. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. and tonight a republican whistle-blower and a presidential candidate to boot. senator rand paul of kentucky calls his party out for isis and the stupid disastrous war tore apart iraq.

whatever you think of paul, this takes guts. here he was on the morning show today. let's watch. >> a lot of people are trapped inside the beltway. and they think that war is always the answer. but i'm asking some difficult questions of republicans. do you think the invasion of iraq made it more stable or us more safe? we now have isis to contend with. >> lindsey graham would say isis exists because of people like rand paul who said let's not go into syria. >> i would say it's exactly the opposite. isis exists and grew stronger because of the hawks in our party who gave arms indiscriminately. and most of those arms were snatched up by isis. these hawks also wanted to bomb assad which would have made isis' job even ead easier. they created these people. everything they have talked about in foreign policy they have been wrong about for 20 years. and yet they have somehow the gall to keep saying and keep pointing fingers to say otherwise. >> i'm joined by david corn of mother jones, and syndicated columnist kathleen parker. kathleen, let me ask you first. i think i know where he is

heading. i'm stunned. it takes a lot of guts to come out of the republican party to say this party which i'm a member of got us into isis, blew up part of iraq. they did everything in the world. for 20 years they've been wrong, and we're still listening to them because they have the gall to keep speaking. the democrats don't do it as well as rand paul, blow these guys apart. i think this is differentiation. this is where rand paul is trying to separate himself from the rest of the herd. >> he believes it. >> he does believe it. he is trying to carve out a path between isolationism and neo conservatism. there is nothing wrong with asking the questions he is asking. when people are seeing some of the other candidates who are saying we're going to track them down, rip out their jugular, drink their blood. >> i'm a little wilder on this, because i think he really believes what he says. i think he is an objectivist, a libertarian. and guys like bobby jindal, they

make it up every day. they're day traders. whatever is working, they pick it up and throw it at somebody. they don't have any belief. >> rand paul is like his dad. remember his dad got eaten alive for being against the iraq war. he is a skeptic or he is anti-intervention overseas. and his challenge has been, and we've seen this over the past year that often he talks from his heart, as he did today, says what he really believes. i think it's a solid critique. but almost inevitably, within a week or two, he sort of comes back in because he doesn't want to get too far out of the republican tent. he was all for killing all aid to israel and every other country, and then he flip-flopped on that. >> what does that tell you? covering for his true beliefs which drives him? what is real? the coffer or the reality? >>, no i think he really believes -- >> i think he is -- >> i think he is very far out of the gop mainstream.

and he is trying to find a way to keep a foot over the line. and that fight is going to keep on going for the next year. >> i think it's definitely going to hurt him with the base. they're just not going to listen to that. >> let's take a lot at one of the shots. it didn't take long for senator rand paul's statement on isis on morning joe to get attacked from a fellow republican. here is bobby jindal, a likely rival, but an unlikely president. this is a perfect example, jindal said, of why senator paul is unsuited to be commander in chief. we have men and women in the military who are in the field trying to fight isis right now, and senator paul has taken the weakest, most liberal democrat position. we should all be clear that evil and radical islam are at fault for this rise of isis and people like president obama and hillary clinton exacerbate it. he supposed to attack evil? this is weird. the enemy here is evil. >> it is an exorcist. >> jindal is an exorcist. >> it goes back to the axis of evil and the very grand terms they use to cover up a neo con interventionist approach. he is trying to make it sound like rand paul sought of the

mainstream conversation. and then you have people like jeb bush who the other day said isis did not exist until barack obama became president, which was so wrong. it started in 2004 and 2006. so republicans like him and bobby jindal will say. >> try to name any candidate out there who is a capable commander in chief. >> i understand. let me explain my history of following politics. the person who wins the presidency is the man, so far probably a woman next time. still, it's her advantage, hillary clinton, who figures out what is it in the american soul at that time that is really motivating them. what is the thing that you get to? it's like romance. you're trying find out what that other person is. and right now thing is a surprising level of war weariness. >> sure. >> in the republican rank and file. not the big shots, the people with money to spend $200 million on a candidate. but the real regular person,

states like pennsylvania and ohio are really rip about these wars. and if one of the candidates will stand up and say you know what? i'm willing to say it. we've made mistakes. we shouldn't have been so hawkish, that guy might visit figured out. because the rest of it off the rack hawks. >> well there has to be a different way of approaching it. who is willing to put boots on the ground? and that's the only way? that's the only way? nobody is. >> there is a fear of isis out there amongst the public that they're trying to exploit by sounding tough without committing to anything real, like boots on the ground. >> you saw last night the cartoon of the little animal on lion king. let me at him, let my at him and put your arms back to stop. when it comes to foreign policy and national security, talking tough seems to be a sense for republican contenders in 2016. let's watch the acts. >> leading from behind is not a foreign policy. we need to reengage with the rest of the world, that our friends know that we're not just here this week or next, that we're in it for the long haul.

and our enemies need to twitch a little bit. they need to fear awes little bit. >> it is heartbreaking to see iraq fall apart. and the only way i know to defend this nation is for some of our soldiers to go back and partner with the iraqis to stop isil before it's too late. >> people ask what our strategy should be on global jihad and terrorists. i refer to the movie "taken." we will look for you, we will find you, and we will kill you. >> and let there be no doubt. israel will know, as will the whole world that we are their trusted friend and the ayatollahs of iran will know that hell will freeze over before they get a nuclear weapon. >> you know, that is not an appeal. that's an appeal to the evangelical religious right that sees all these wars in biblical terms. >> but not necessarily. by the way there is large contingent of those folks whose children go to war often. they may be cheering huckabee

future a loft reasons. they're all afraid. everybody is worried about isis. >> let her finish. see, i helped there. >> please go. >> i have already forgotten what i was going to say. >> verbal aggression doesn't work here. bellicosity will work this time around. republicans have to win a general election. when they appealing to the base as these four we just witnessed did, i think they're completely off base. i really do. when you get right down to it, the question is exactly what are you going to do? how you going to hunt these people down and how you going to kill them? are you going to put our troops in there? are you going to put our women in there, have them be captured? you know what they do to captures. >> that's my number one fear. what happens when one of our gis gets grabbed in uniform and gets

two or three weeks to sweat the fact that they're going to be burn aid live and we watch all this happening. what is our next step? we can't let that sit there. >> we used to talk about chicken hawks, people who hadn't served who were very bellicose, to use your word. >> you took a shot at bill kristol in that front. i read the column. i read the column. >> i would call them hollow hawks. they talk the talk, but they really don't know what to say. marco rubio thinks he can become president by using movie slogans? ronald reagan did that with "make my day" and things like that. but he also had some policy behind it which you and i didn't agree with. but i think marco rubio thinks -- >> my memory is not that long. when did we last disagree? >> when was the last time? i don't know. mccarthy? >> i was with mccarthy. i was with gene. what were you telling me? i want to know what you're willing to fight about here.

>> no, i don't want to fight. we disagree with ronald reagan. >> i disagree with ronald reagan. >> yes! i'm saying the same thing. >> all right. okay. >> but he used movie slogans. he thought it was useful. but he also had policy behind it. rubio has ditched the policy. he is just using the slogans, thinking that that somehow is going to register. >> i don't know. >> these guys are all setting themselves up for a general election fight against a female candidate. do they think talking tough is a way to work there? >> there is for you on that score. i remember being in the bush white house. and there being more in favor of hillary clinton because they felt that she could handle the foreign policy issues that were going to come up than they were for barack obama. so they did have faith in her as a potential commander in chief as opposed to many others, let's say. >> i think the line you were trying to remember from ronald reagan is "mr. breen, i paid for that microphone." >> duke it out with kathleen who has the mic. thank you. a reminder. rand paul will be here on "hardball," or rather we'll be with him on friday.

coming up, hillary clinton heads back to south carolina where president obama beat her by close to 30 points. the base of meaning african american voters give her a better reception there today? plus, rick santorum announces he is running for president. he finished second behind mitt romney in 2012. he has a lot of competition on the religious right this time, and you better believe it, including marco rubio who is out there warning that christianity could soon be labeled hate speech because of the pressure to support gay marriage. and "the washington post" reporter on trial for espionage in iran. the trial has begun in secret for his brother. finally, let me finish with a salute to the country's number one republican whistle-blower. that's rand paul. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

the state of nebraska has now abolished the death penalty, becoming one of the most conservative states in the country to do so. the state's legislature voted last week to repeal capital

punishment in the state. they sent the measure to the state's republican governor, and he vetoed it. and late today in a dramatic vote, the legislature overrode the governor's veto. they needed 30 of 49 votes to do it, and they got 30 votes to override, making nebraska the 19th state to abolish the death penalty. and we'll be right back. and positively radiant skin. aveeno® positively radiant moisturizer... with active naturals® soy. one of nature's most effective skin tone correctors. to help reduce the look of brown spots in just four weeks. it's positively brilliant. aveeno®. naturally beautiful results®. at book club they were asking me what you're doing now, janice. blogging. your blog is just pictures of you in the mirror. it's called a fashion blog todd. well, i've been helping people save money with progressive's discounts. flo, can you get janice a job? [ laughs ] you should've stuck to softball! i was so much better at softball than janice, dad. where's your wife, todd?

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you talked about ronald reagan being a transformative political leader. i did not mention his name. >> your husband did. >> well, i'm here. he is not. >> i can't tell sometimes. >> well. you know, i think we both have very passionate and committed spouses who stand up for us. and i'm proud of that. >> welcome back to "hardball" that was barack obama and hillary clinton duking it out, of course, in the south carolina presidential primary debate back in 2008. a few days later, obama crushed clinton in the state's democratic primary by nearly 30 points. for the first time since 2008,

hillary clinton was back in south carolina today, courting the state's sizable black population, specifically democratic women and a group of minority small business owners, all in an effort to hold president obama's successful coalition of young, female and minority voters in 2016. well, here she is. >> you're right. i am running to live again at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. and i do know how hard this job i'm seeking is. i have seen it up close and personal. all our presidents come into office looking so vigorous. think about what they look like on inauguration day. and then we watch them. they grow grayer and grayer. and by the time they leave, they're as white as the building they live in. now let me tell you, i'm aware i might not be the youngest candidate in this race, but i have one big advantage. i've been coloring my hair for years.

going see me turn white in the white house. and you're also not going see me shrink from a fight. i think by now people know i don't quit. >> msnbc correspondent joy reid is on the ground in the palmetto state. joy, you just saw an example of my definition of spin. say something drew true and candid that gives away everything like coloring your hair. when everyone is listening and believing everything you say, stick it in, i'm the real fighter. that's when you make your case. create the opening. brilliantly done. i thought brilliant presentation. what did you think? >> it remind me of that famous ronald reagan moment when he said he is not going to hold his opponent's youth and inexperience against him. sort of flipping the whole age question against his opponent. it was really good. it played really well in the room. and as you said, hillary clinton knows that is one of the impediments in her path. she spun it beautifully.

>> she also admitted ambition. all the guys have ambition. why can't a woman have ambition. she said i want to live at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. a lot of people would like to be president of the united states. you and i would probably like it under certain conditions, whatever those conditions are, like you get elected. but the fact is you wouldn't want it any other way. the fact is it's breath taking to have a politician say hey, i want to be president. what's wrong with that? that's how it works. jack kennedy wanted it. teddy roosevelt wanted to be president. anyway. do you think it went well down there with the community? tell me about the african american community. there any anger about the fighting that went on last time around involving jim clyburn and the rest of the political grandees down there? >> i came down here with that same question in mind and talked to a lot of people who were not only operatives on the obama side, supporters on the clinton side and regular civilians who were part of the campaign. and i didn't get a sense that

people are holding a grudge against the clintons. what i heard were things like, no there is no judge there. but we want to be courted. this is a frustrated democratic electorate down here. they matter a lot one time, and that's the democratic primary it's something like 55%, at least in 2008, african american. so this is a large african american voting bloc that this is their one chance to really get courted the way iowa voters do. so they really want that, and they crave that. i think they're not willing to give the clintons a full pass because they don't want to be passed by. they want the clintons to make a case, make a case to them, and sell them on her candidacy. and that's what she was here to do today. but they were asking for it. they're saying sell us. tell what's you're going to do. >> thank you so much, joy reid. >> yep. >> it was in south carolina that hillary clinton saw an exodus of african american voters which would only help cost her the democratic nomination in 2008. her husband angered some black democrats by marginalizing barack obama as simply the black

candidate, comparing his campaign to jesse jackson's presidential bids of the past. here is the problem. >> what does it say about barack obama that it takes two of you to beat him? >> that's just day two. jesse jackson won in south carolina twice in '84 and '88. and he ran a good campaign. and senator obama has run good campaign here. he is a good candidate with a good organization. >> former president clinton accused the obama campaign that he was playing the race card. >> once you accuse somebody of racism or bigotry or something, the facts become irrelevant. there are facts here. they're feeding you this because they know this is what you want to cover. this is what you live for. but this hurts the people of south carolina. you don't care about it. what you care about the is this. and the obama people know that. so they just spin you up on this, and you happily go along. >> talking about you, huh?

caroline's favorite son jim clyburn attacked bill clinton for dismissing obama. in his book, clyburn recalls the former president's fury in a late night telephone call. let's listen. >> after several intermediate conversations, this powerful voice came on the other end. if you bastards want a fight, you damn well will get one. i needed no help identifying that voice. it was bill clinton, the former of the president of the united states. >> great voice there. rob gibbs was president obama's press secretary, and april ryan, author of "the presidency in black and white." he is sort of saluting in a dark way your success. i remember the fight, and i was for obama in that fight. and i remember clinton used the phrase "fantasy." it's all a fantasy. and the way it was put or spun i think by you guys, i bought it, was that he was saying this whole obama thing is a fantasy.

he is not going to be president of the united states. it's just another symbolic campaign, a moral campaign, but symbolic campaign like jesse jackson's campaign. they weren't going to win. going to be marginalized. and that really enraged the black community. >> really -- >> the base of the party being treated like the margin of the party. >> an argument that might have made more sense before iowa. because national polling showed before iowa that hillary clinton led among african americans. after iowa, when african americans saw a mostly white state support and african american nominee for president. >> could win. >> african americans began to believe. they began to think this isn't just something that is being built up to be pushed back down. >> did you start getting guys like charlie rangel, the leaders in the black caucus big shots, did you start getting them after that? when did you start picking up leaders like jim clyburn? >> i'd have to look back, but my guess is it was probably after that when people began to think it was possible.

>> about the fact that now he seemed winnable in the white community, which has the most vote, it was a different deal. >> let me say this, and robert, my recollection may be a little similar to yours, but i differ a little bit. jim clyburn at that time was neutral. and the problem was when south carolina happened, the problem was here you had an african american, the first time a really viable african american could be president and won iowa. people in iowa saw that his values kind of lined up with theirs. and then you had the issue with south carolina that the president clinton statements about jesse jackson kind of tipped the scales. and jim clyburn went to obama after that, after that fight. then you had a lot of cbc members who ultimately came to obama a little later on because it was toss-up at one point for many african americans because there were like, wait a minute, we have the first viable african american who could be president. and then you have the clintons who we know. >> right. >> it was kind of hard. but i'm going to say that with this fight. when it comes to the fight in south carolina, i talked to jesse jackson prior to. >> prior to coming here? >> yeah, prior to coming here.

>> do you often do that? >> i talk to a lot of my sources quite a bit. including robert gibbs. but no, i talked to him. and he on that issue about the controversy that happened with bill clinton and clyburn, he says reverend jackson says that we must forgive, redeem and move on. he said -- >> you get the floor now. how goes the coalition? i don't see any opposition that hillary clinton is going to stop her from the nomination right now. how goes the democratic opposition. it's a bit in tattered shape occasionally but still there. look at the numbers. 87% of democrats support obama. it's still there. >> you've got that. but you have to remember when obama leaves you have a lot of african americans who came to the table for obama. >> will they vote for hillary clinton? >> that's the question. that's the question. you had john kerry received around 88%. al gore, 92. we have to see what happens, if she can energize the african american vote. saying the things she said in south carolina -- >> it's not the percentage of the vote.

it's the percentage that shows up, right? >> voter apathy in the african american community is at its height in many cases, especially when obama is not on the ticket. but she has to come out and energize. >> it looks to me like the president has resigned is probably a tougher word than you might like. he seems to be committed to the fact that hillary clinton will be his successor. >> i think the president, not something i have talked to him about. but my guess is he sees her as far and away the most likely nominee. and i do believe he understands that having a democrat in the white house for four more years means keeping wholesome of the things he was able to do in eight years. i will say as it relates to this south carolina set of primaries, i don't think there is anything that would preclude african americans from supporting hillary clinton. they've always had a strong record with african americans. bill clinton was referred to as the first african american president before barack obama was the first african american president.

>> and john kerry even wanted to resemble that in page 82 of my book. he said something like he wanted to be the second black president. and jim clyburn said barack obama is the first black president. >> i think there is no doubt that everybody, every constituency is going to want to see them come down and earn it there is no doubt about that. i think, though, they are -- the clintons are very well positioned to put as much of that coalition back together as possible and be very, very successful. >> remember, clinton only got 43% the first time in '92. 42% of the vote. and he did it by -- but he also leaned over. i can't believe the number of police academies i went to covering him in that campaign. executing that guy. remember that guy with the mental problems? executing him. he said work hard and play by the rules. he sent a lot of conservative messages along with having the black vote. so he managed to fuse that together really brilliantly anyway. thank you so much, robert gibbs. thank you. of course, by the way, here is the book. april ryan, i'm her chief salesperson.

>> yes, you are. up next, the "washington post" reporter on trial in iran. his trial started this weekend. total secrecy. and his brother is coming here next. this is "hardball," the place for politics. and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use, is the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision or any symptoms of an allergic reaction stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use. insurance coverage has expanded nationally

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to the readers of "the washington post" in an effort to bridge our common humanity, as was already mentioned, jason's brother ali is here tonight. i told him personally we will not rest until we bring him home to his family safe and sound. >> back to "hardball" that was president obama at the white house correspondents dinner calling for the release of jason rezaian. rezaian, who was born in america, but also has iranian citizenship was working as bureau chief in iran last july when he was arrested and later charged with spying for the united states.

he spent the last ten months in iran's infamous evin prison where americans were held in the hostage crisis 36 years ago. he was put on trial in a closed door session of iran's revolutionary court, and the judge is known to hand down harsh penalty there's. a state-run news agency report yesterday said he maintained his innocence throughout the trial. an article in "the new york times" suggests today his imprisonment might be more about leverage than about justice. quote, if history is a guide, his fate may be tied to iranian political tensions and calculations in the estranged relations between iran and the united states that may have nothing to do with the accusations according to political experts, relatives of prisoners and former prisoners. i'm joined right now by ali rezaian, the brother of jason rezaian. what do you think it's about? do you think it's something to do the nuclear deal? something to do with geopolitics? >> i think it's changed over time. well don't really know why they took him. he never did anything that they

spoke to. they picked him up in the middle of the night, took him away, interrogated him for five months and came back and said we're going to charge him with these things that they basically pulled out of his e-mail. >> a letter to the president of the united states, some form e-mail thing, right? hard. >> call it a job request. he was saying i live in iran. i love iran. i'm from california. i love the united states. i want us to have better relations. let me come and help you guys understand the relationship between iran and the united states better. >> and your brother wasn't some antagonist. he was trying to calm things down it sounds like. >> jason loves iran. he loves the u.s. what he was over there trying to do is give a better impression of the people of iran, let people know what it was like over there outside of the country. he loved telling stories. he loved letting people know about that. he wasn't throwing hand grenades. >> to the people of iran -- by in this country, iranians, they're all unbelievably great americans. and your family became american. and the only reason you have

dual citizenship is because the government of iran insists on giving it to you, right? >> yeah. my dad came here in 1959. he decided to live here, chose to live here. because he was born in iran, they consider us iranians as well. and they don't recognize our american citizenship. >> the people of iran over there and who read the paper know this is going on, that an american is being held on these charges? >> you know, they have done a really good job of not getting information out. they have held the information very closely. they haven't put a lot out in the papers. and when they have, it's been fiction. it's been calculated at specific times. >> what is this intel that they believe -- they claim your brother gave to the united states? what is the nature of the intel they say he gave to us? >> jason didn't have access to any information. they never even claimed that he had access to any secret information. the information that he had that he published was -- >> reporting hi, is a reporter. that's what he does. they said he was reporting on

the domestic policies and the international policies of iran. that's what he was doing. >> any way, good luck. >> thanks for your help. >> i'm wearing the button for jason rezaian here. it's just an outrage. i used to think don't get this involved in the nuclear thing. we might as well get this resolved. if they're going to treat people like this, they're not to be trusted on any deal. any deal. thank you. >> thank you. >> ali rezaian for coming here for your brother. what better cause could you have? up next, attorney general loretta lynch takes on the biggest sport in the world, at least the organization behind wit a stunning arrest against top officials of governing body worldwide. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

>> these individuals threw these organizations engaged in bribery to decide who would televise games. where the games would be held and who would run the organization overseeing organized soccer worldwide. >> swiss lawn officials entered the hotel in zurich, switzerland and arrested six top fifa

officials who were staying at the hotel ahead of fifa's annual meeting. at about the same time in the u.s., fbi raided the fifa headquarters. its president jeffrey webb is among the indicted. which distinguished itself today by having its top teer of executives indicted by the justice department, extraditing them from all over the world to face racketeering and corruption charges totaling more than $150 million in ill gotten gains and rigged bids and bribes, allegedly.

matt, was the united states sort of outbid or screwed out of a bid for hosting the world cup? is that part of the info here? >> well, i mean, the allegations surrounding the 2018 and the 2022 bids for the world cup have been swirling for years. as you just said, it was no secret that those were controversial bids. in fact, when word came that the justice department was investigating corruption in fifa, i think a lot of people just assumed well they've got to be talking about the '18 and '22 bids. but what came out here today was much broader. they said listen, it's not just about one or two bids. it's a systemic problem of who gets marketing money, who gets media money, who gets to -- where the game is going to be played, every aspect. if you want to tap into the river of money and prestige of

fifa, you got to pay. >> are these kickbacks? did these people working in fifa take the money home? they don't disclose it as taxable money, they just put in their pocket and hide it somewhere? >> yeah. the justice department, it's funny. they're using laws and they're using language that makes it sound more like a mafia family or a mexican drug cartel. sometimes it's crude stuff where it's literally hey, i'm going send my guy over to a hotel. fill his briefcase up with stacks of $100 bills. and sometimes it's these really complicated financial instruments to move money in a furtive way. it was a remarkable in-depth indictment. >> thank you so much, matt apuzzo. what a story. people are going to be really caring about this one. for more, we're joined by roger simon, senior political editor at the daily bees. and jonathan allen. vox's political commenter.

>> fifa soccer, there has always been this air of just sketchiness. you saw with the russia bid, it was sketchy. the qatar bid, when they won, it was scandalous. you can't even play soccer at that time of year. >> 122. >> it's too hot. not to mention all the human rights abuses that are currently going on and were going on. >> so money went into the pockets of these people in switzerland basically where they're centered? >> right. swiss bank accounts. this is a huge scandal. i think the fact that there was a fifa scandal, everyone was like that makes sense. but the depth of it. >> will this make soccer more interesting to americans? >> i think it will be slow and it will be fast. >> like wrestling or something? a little interest in it. i think the way to save soccer in this country and make it really exciting, give people seven points for a score. so then the score would be 14-7. now that sounds american. 21-14. now there is a score.

i think so. anyway, what do you think is going on? >> extradited from switzerland? nazis didn't get extradited from switzerland. the folks who are hiding money in switzerland don't get extradited. what do you have to do to get extradited from switzerland? >> haven't we grown up with the smell of some of these international competitions where it looks like the french or somebody has been paid off. this doesn't grab you as a big surprise. >> it's hard to watch soccer and think everything is on the up and up just from the flops you see on the field. >> qatar has money. and maybe not charm, but it's got a lot of money. and it's easy for them to write another check. >> absolutely. look, i don't know if the justice department is going to be able to prove this case or not. >> why didn't eric holder grab this before he left? this is good stuff. if you want to get points with the american public, go after the bad guys. go after foreign bad guys. go after middle eastern bad guys. swiss bad guys. this would have made hold area popular guy. it's a bouquet he gave her. she comes in and she gets a

great case to break. >> every day he waited was the risk of another black guy getting shot by a white policeman. i think he wanted to get out, to tell you the truth. >> really? >> the thing about this, as apuzzo was saying, some of the charges are so basic. one of the charges, my favorite is bulk cash smuggling. this isn't wire transfers. this is a guy with two shopping bags. >> spero agnew was just a big manila envelope. >> why would you bother for only a couple of million doing the financial transfer? just send a guy with a couple of shopping bags. >> these people just stole the money? >> it stuck to some hands, yeah. >> the roundtable is staying with us. coming up especially, rick santorum is in, but he is far from alone. the fight for the evangelical right is red hot. we'll get to that. the republican party is getting pushed around by the bible people. this is "hardball," the place for politics. s you be the side-planking keeping-up-with- your-girlfriend- even-though-you'll-feel-it- later kind of woman you are. body

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as the u.s. congress considers that 12-country trade deal with asia, according to a new pew poll, 58% say free trade agreements have been a good thing for the united states. only 33% say they have been a bad thing. it's worth noting there aren't significant partisan differences when it comes to free trade. 62% of independents, 58% of democrats, 53% of republicans all say free trade has been good for america. we'll be right back after this.

we are the water's edge of the argument that mainstream christian teaching is hate speech. if you do not support same-sex marriage, you are labelled a homophobe and a hater. the next step is to argue that the teachings of mainstream christianity, the catechism of the catholic church is hate speech. >> that was marco rubio in an interview with a christian broadcaster saying he is worried some christians will be called names for opposing gay marriage. just a month ago rubio said he would attend a gay wedding. as the clock ticks down, rubio is racing to win the vote of gop evangelicals and get early momentum. now former senator rick santorum has become the seventh candidate to declare his candidacy. he did it today.

here he is announcing in cabot, pennsylvania earlier today. >> i am proud to stand here among you and for you, the american workers who have sacrificed so much to announce that i am running for president of the united states. >> we're back with our roundtable. roger, jackie and jonathan. let me start with roger. it used to be only one guy was the evangelical candidate, him. we have seven in the race. all bible thumping, if you will, politically, which i don't like, but there they are. it's where the party's gone. >> the strange thing is, it's all based on the assumption that christianity is so fragile that it can't stand something like same sex marriages. i mean, i think christianity is doing pretty good for something that's only 2,000 years old. when did it get to the water's

edge. >> someone is talking about it being a victim of hate speech. call me old fashioned, but i'm different sex marriage, traditional marriage. nobody's going to hate the person, that's just my opinion. no one's going to go after you and kill you for that. that's your personal opinion he's throwing out this victim card here, and it's one that resonates with the base. the more he throws it out there and suggests that people who don't agree with same sex marriage are somehow being persecuted in this country he's going to turn off the middle. the further he inches toward that base, the harder it's going to be for him to snap back. >> it's the same candidate who's trying to be the young guy. the young guy, marco rubio. he would attend a gay wedding. i think this is --

>> until the dancing starts. >> i go to the rehearsal dinner, the service, i won't go to the reception. they're really carving this baby up. >> i'll use this fork, but not that fork? >> i have nothing to add. >> the large field of gop candidates of republican leaning votes, rubio came in in the top five with 9% support. rubio's up there. i think right now, there seems to be certain conditions, you have to be hawkish. the only exception is rand paul. you have to be right wing on social issues. at some point someone's going to break the line saying, i can live with gay marriage. i'm not going to spend the rest of my life beating that drum. >> two weeks ago, npr, rubio said that if a state approved gay marriage it became the law of the land in that state. well, how do they get from there to it being a hate crime?

i mean, he's the guy who said, if minnesota wants to do it, let minnesota do it? >> this is going to be embarrassing all the way to iowa. >> rubio has done a good job in the senate of carving himself out, a reputation of being pretty serious, he's done it on national security. particularly for a young guy, he's got to show he has the chops. he's done that, you see the immigration bill where he pulled off of that, you see him pulling back. >> that's another issue, you have to be hard ass, completely against illegal immigration. nobody et goods to stay here or be a citizen. it's so hardlined. it's outrageous. they don't even say, look, if you're here ten years we'll let you stay. or you've been here 15 years, you haven't broken a law, we'll let you become a citizen, there's no give at all. if you're leer illegally you have to go away, and take your kids with you. >> that's where they don't break ranks. >> when? >> they'll read the demographics, head to atlanta. and say, here's a way for me to get some votes.

>> the problem is, the republican primary is completely about white male base. some white female. if you look at the percentage of african-americans and latinos voting in the republican primaries, it's so men school, what you have to do at this point to win republican white males? >> they don't want another mitt romney. >> gerrymandering. there's very few in the hispanic population about the field is crowded with candidates for evangelical voters. rick santorum was down at the recent poll of christians with 2% getting the event. he's so east coast, i don't think it's a good sign when you come in behind him. >> he has a little mountain to climb. >> we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. >> thank you, roger simon. >> when we return, let me finish with a salute to the whistle-blower, rand paul.

you're watching hardball, a place for politics. let me finish tonight with this. i'd like to salute the country's number one whistle-blower, rand paul. try new crest pro-health hd.

if you want to succeed in business, mistakes are a luxury you can't afford. that's why i recommend fast reliable comcast business internet. they know what businesses need. and there's a no-mistake guarantee. if you don't like it, you have thirty days to call and get your money back. with comcast business internet you literally can't mook a mistick. i meant to say that. switch today and get the no mistake guarantee. comcast business. built for business. let me finish tonight with this. i'd like to salute the country's number one whistle-blower, rand paul. you doobt have to agree with libertarianism to see the guts it takes.

it means smashing through all the obligations, the right or left applies to government and saying, guess what, i'd rather not. i'd rather have no government than what you're offering here. and so it's not surprising that the country's lone libertarian presidential candidate is the one republican with the courage to call out his party for the disastrous route this country has taken since the weeks after 9/11. they found a route to iraq. a complicit mainstream media, and a public dog trained to believe whatever a president says about national security. just tell me if you ever heard the phrase that sold us into that iraq war by the way, wmd, homeland, a regime change. the strange foreign phrase is meant to incur in us some deep need to attack, and any country that saw the nuttiness in it, we weren't even supposed to say french fries, because that country thought the war was stupid. here we are a dozen years later, and the republican party has one lone candidate who stands out there being truthful. he's like the skinny, quiet uncool kid who doesn't get picked for the intermural squad

because he dares to think for himself. i think he deserves credit for his guts. let's see if the republican peanut gallery roars as loud. the republicans want the white house the first thing they have to do is confess the horrible decision they had the last time they had it. hillary clinton called the war a mistake, i hope she means it. rand paul and the republicans haven't gotten that far. rand paul will be here by the way friday to play hardball. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight on all in. >> they corrupted the business of worldwide soccer to serve their interests and enrich themselves. >> the united states takes on the most powerful sports organization in the world. rests over a dozen men. >> greed that drove them to use and exploit their posi