a lot of people are trapped inside the beltway and they think war is always the answer. but i'm asking difficult questions of republicans. do you think the invasion of iraq made it more stable or us more safe. we now have isis to contend with. >> lindsey graham would say isis exists because of people like rand paul who says let's not go into syria. >> i would say it's the opposite. isis exists and grew stronger because of the hawks in our party who gave arms indiscriminately and most were snatched up by isis. these hawks also wanted to bomb assad which would have made isis' job even easier. they created these people.

everything they have talked about in foreign policy they have been wrong about for 20 years and yet they have the gall to keep pointing fingers. >> comments that seemed to rock the political world. "wall street journal" wrote a piece entitled rand paul created isis. >> well, okay our headline goes too far, but the claim is about as plausible that rand paul's outburst that republican international lists were the rise of the islamic state. a lot to talk about today. willie, i notice the headline theft of copper from the a train disrupts service. is this the 1880s? >> that's crazy. that's the kind of thing they will steal copper from a band in houses.

that was a problem in detroit recently and apparently on the train. >> "new york times" has a massive spread on fifa off the the top. >> those whacky guys. >> and look at the guy at the top. he's going to jail. >> how widespread this is. it's rampant. >> they let countries know if they got involved in their business, they could kick them out of the world cup and not let them participate. and what was so remarkable to me you would just watch and like you would know that so much of the stuff was rigged. >> yeah. >> and you're like why doesn't anybody bring these people to heel. and it was fear of fifa that countries were actually afraid to do what loretta lynch did

credit. she's tough. >> and don't you feel like qatar was the tipping point? everybody knew something was going on. >> i remember when i was a young lawyer i was talking to a guy who was a part they are in the law firm where i work, dan losier. why do we ask for this much? he said pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. we'll just be pigs here. and that's exactly what happened. an amazing story. so bill krinclinton and eric holder are going over to help with the u.s. bid for 2022. they're talking and worried about all these other countries worried about england. worry about the countries they should worry about. and the second qatar got it clinton and holder look at each other, every else looks at each other, england gets like one or two votes. and everybody there knew it was

rigged. and that really was the tipping point. >> we've talked a lot about our lack of faith in institutions whether it's congress, whether the irs, whether the secret service. just one are more. you can trust anything anymore? it's like soccer man. the world's sport. it's just sad. >> we're kicking on soccer and we -- look at the nfl. we talked all last summer and fall about sexual abuse and alleged sexual abuse and we see ray mcdonald is back in jail. domestic abuse. will they look at a person's character when they draft people? yes, they will. yes, they will. number one draft pick jameis winston. a guy that got busted for stealing from a supermarket, a guy who there is a very compelling case that as even the state attorney said something went terribly wrong that night

that this young woman said her face was jammed on the floor and she was raped by winston. number one draft pick. there is such a breakdown in trust in institutions. you look at all the institutions nobody trusts anymore in the united states, it's the opposite of the 1960s. the one institution people trust is the military. isn't that crazy? >> yeah. we can go all the way back -- beyond when it starts. but if you want to start with 9/11, ib tellntelligence, the banking system. it goes on and on. you talk about major league baseball with steroids. if you look at this chart on the front page thargs eat the same kind of chart the fbi puts together when they put together a crime family. that's the way they lay it out. and it's kind of the way it was described by loretta lynch yesterday. >> and bill neely is with us there switzerland, right? no, you're in london.

and it really is -- i'm one of the few certainly on this set i'll say soccer fans for stupid americans. football fans. and it was always difficult every four years during the world cup trying to explain how screwed up fifa was. and the one thing i can never explain is why everybody put up with it for as long as they did. so you've been a fan for a very long time. why? why did europe and the world put up with this corruption for as long as they did? >> well, i suppose because the gravy train just kept on rolling. the world cup is one of the most if not the most lucrative sports events in the world. 1 billion people watched last year's final between germany and argentina. fifa gets 9 the 0%0% of its income from the world cup.

but there was a significant shift overnight. follow the money you might say because the corporate sponsors who pour money in to the world cup are beginning to feel very embarrassed and say some pretty tough things. coca-cola was first saying this has tarnished fifa. visa came in quite quickly and said we need swift and immediate action. it will reassess its sponsorship of the world cup if it doesn't get that. and one by one they all began to come in including mcdonald's. these are not the kinds of headlines that corporate sponsors want to be associated with. the stench of corruption. and in the times of london world cup of fraud. but do you know what? fifa's annual jamboree opens today as if nothing had happened. plenty on the agenda. the only thing that matters is not up for official discussion and that's those allegations of rampant systemic deep the radioed corruption. for fifa it's business as usual.

so let's talk about the off side rule and goal line technology and let's reelect 79-year-old sepp blatter for a fifth term as president as if he was some kind of african poe tan at a time because keeps all of them sweep. bibut the fbi has broken down the front door and winds of change are blowing through. and european football nations are threatening a split, to walk out of this congress if the re-election of sepp blatter goes ahead tomorrow. because they want change. >> so europe is talking about walking out which of course goes to my son and i who talk fifa all the time. he said the question is not whether sepp blatter survives it's whether fifa survives in the long run. you and i know and everybody that has followed this organization knows just how corrupt this is going to be. you're right, loretta lynch has kicked down the front door. she will find very ugly things

there. >> that's right. and the corporate sponsors for example talk about something has to chain and it has to change immediately. but fifa has shown for decades that in fact it is incapable of change. will as the indictment says systemic and deep rooted. certainly won't change while sepp blatter is there. he was meant to appear this morning, make his first public appearance. he's canceled there. but as far as we know there are no plans to cancel the leadership election for tomorrow. so there are already strong indications that in fact fifa will not change just as it hasn't smelt the coffee for theadedecades. >> bill, thank you so much. >> our buddy roger bennett who will be on later today he is in the "new york times" story above the fold he calls sepp blatter part james bond batty, part

mayor daly style machine politician rip large. >> i need to put that at the end of my sentences. did you see rand paul's interview? rip large. >> actually let me continue where we began. >> you like that? yeah. did sound smart. if i could do it with a cattyaccent. >> what rapped paul said on "morning joe" in your interview, isis and john mccain are responsible for the rise of the islamic state. isis exists and grew stronger because of the hawks in our party who gave arms indiscriminately and most of those arms were snatched up by isis. the gop presidential candidate said wednesday on "morning joe" that the "wall street journal" continues to write in mr. obama's second term the u.s. has largely followed mr. paul's foreign affairs preferences to the letter and the result has

been more chaos and disorder. if he wants to run as an obama republican, he shouldn't also adopt the trick of rewriting history. it reflects poorly on his judgment as a potential command commander in chief. >> as a guy who plays liberal on this show i'm a hawk by nature. having said that there is a cogent argument to go back and say, hey, look w. doesn't go into iraq. much less isis. argument, you know, what if we did take out assad, we'd have more isis there. so this is one of those things you can make a left brain argument, but the right brain wins and says, no, no it's not right there. but at the end of the day, he does make a cogent case. >> i think the argument that the republicans should make and that the "wall street journal" did make -- actually they didn't make this argument. if we followed rand paul's foreign policy, there would be no isis. because we would never have gone

into iraq and saddam hussein would not be -- saddam hussein would still be there, isis would not. if we does notid not pull out of iraq the way we did, if you'd just gone george w. bush or dick cheney's way isis would not be there because that void would have never been created. the argument you could make is if you're a republican that the wall street journal did make is that it was hillary clinton people like hillary clinton that were wrong both times, that were wrong saying let's go into iraq and then let's leave iraq quickly that created the first void. and then after order was brought, which dexter filkins and everybody else says was in 2008 and 2009 pulling out created a new void that did create the environment for isis. so hillary was wrong on iraq twice. i think that's the argument certainly that republicans would make, that i would make.

>> i give rabd paul kudos in the sense that i like finally you have republican candidates who say, look, i'm running in the general election here. and have the kind of ---kahunas to do that. a lot of people say it's the dwet of his campaign. >> i think it's the birth of a real conversation. >> it is. >> and this hopefully will be a bellwether for other republicans to say, look i don't just have to appear to those 80 caucus voters in iowa. >> whether i agree or not 9 fact is republicans have lost five out of the last six presidential elections in the popular vote. rand paul yesterday shook things up. other republicans need to shake things up too on a lot of issues. like for instance i'm waiting for the republican to get out there and we talked about an billion lishing the department of education. sounds pretty radical, but instead of top down education, talking about getting as much

power and authority and money to classrooms. and tear down the federal bureaucracy. who will say that? who will say on the other end the only thing the federal government can do is infrastructure. we need to spend more money -- we can spend more money on education, intend it wisely, but we need to spend more money on infrastructure and more wisely. i think that was good what rand paul said yesterday. shaking up the conversation. >> he shook it up and that may be music to the ears of moderates and you hear some democrats saying yes, he's right about that but i think in a republican primary, that's still a difficult argument to make. rick santorum jumped all over him yesterday, bobby jindal jumped all over him. i think rick santorum said rand paul is now the bernie sanders of american foreign policy in our republican party and it reinforces the view of rand paul that people have that he's an isolationist, that he wants to withdraw when there are great threats out there. republicans with make the case that's a bad idea.

>> i think more republicans are skeptical of the next war than want to go into the next war. with all due respect to lindsey graham and mccain and others, they're actually the minority. among republicans i've taken to over the past 20 years, republicans until george w. bush were much more nuanced and careful. more like colin powell. >> let me get one more story in here at least. former senator and 2012 presidential candidate rick santorum became the 7th republican to officially enter the race for 2016. he kicked off his campaign near his childhood home in pennsylvania. santorum highlighted his blue collar background to appeal to middle class voters and also took a shot at hillary clinton. >> this is a piece of coal. this is where high american story started.

my grandfather was a coalminer who brought my dad 7-year-old aldo, from fascist italy. like millions of other americans, he didn't come for this. he came for this. freedom. hillary clinton and big business business, they have called for a massive influx in unskilled labor. business does it because they want to control costs. hillary does it well, she just wants votes. their priorities are profits and power. my priority is you the american worker. >> okay. we've got santorum, pataki

expected to announce today. >> i know we have to get to one more story. rick santorum we had him on here. regardless of what a lot of people think about rick and i know a lot of people in manhattan may not like him, he has the best message, the best economic message for republicans. >> he's got the that appeal to the blue collar republicans. put him also with rand paul even though they're so different. i really respect that the guy says what he believes and there is an honesty and directness. i remember last cycle weed a him on here and i was impressed with the guy. i disagree with a lot of his views, but he at least stands for what he believes and doesn't waffle. and i think more and more voters will demand that. hillary will have to be accountable to some squishy issues. >> he's on tomorrow. john kassich is look at launching his bid. he said i don't know anything about bush's theme. i've never listened to him.

what is right to rise getting up in the morning? okay. and then comments from senator warren are going viral again on the opening night of a tech conference in california this is how the massachusetts democrat answered a question on the lack of national investment. >> too many of the people in in washington do not represent the folks who elected them. they represent the rich and the powerful who don't want their taxes raised, who don't want to see any change who are perfectly happy with things where they are. indeed they're doing great with things where they are. and they stay in the ear of enough of the folks in washington that it has made it almost impossible to get any kind of change. the only way we get change is when enough people in this country say i'm mad as hell and i'm fed up and i'm not going to do this anymore. you are not going to go back and represent me in washington, d.c. about if you are not willing to

pass a meaningful infrastructure bill. if you are not willing to refi fns student loan interest rates and stop dragging in billions of dollars in profits off the backs of kids who otherwise conditions afford to go to college. if you don't say you're going to fund the nih and the nisf because that is our future. we have to make these issues salient and not just wonky. >> why isn't she running? come on. she's injecting some reality -- >> she's passionate. i was in the building. i felt the howard dean room -- >> aah! >> stop. >> she's got a message. >> she's good. >> she means what she says. you can never accuse her of being wishy-washy. >> there is a recurrent theme. i'm for funding. i'm sure as hell for funding more of nih, we've talked about funding infrastructure. but is she going to support

changes? is she going to support real reform. we hear time and time again on this show liberals saying do this, do that. but there was only an earthquake in nepal because we didn't spend enough money in washington, d.c. everything goes back with that. we found out with the am practical train, it wasn't about not spending too much money, it was because the union didn't want do a cheap fix for the union sake. now, i'm all for infrastructure funding. is elizabeth warren going to be all for reforming stupid workforce practices that make us unproductive and make us waste so much money? is she going to be for reforming the union stranglehold on amtrak reform? is she going to be for more than just saying taxpayers of massachusetts, i know if you make $300,000 or $400,000 you pay 60% of your salary to taxes, fees and regulations, but i think that you're greedy saw should pay p 5% of your salaries to taxes, fees and regulations

and i'm not going for ask the unions who help -- >> are you having a fight with yourself? >> no we're not fighting ourselves over elizabeth warren. i'm saying we talked about this after balt are more. it's enough to come on here and say you're not spending enough money. when we're actually spending so much more money than we've ever spent before this real term. but are you willing to make the reforms that maybe your special interests in public education won't like. are you willing to make the reforms that your unions that run amtrak won't like. and do you know what the answer is every time? you're looking at me with those eyes. the answer is always no. the answer is always no. we will not -- we also have republicans who will not the stand up to their base. liberals wornt ss won't. >> elizabeth warren tapstands up -- >> then let her stand up to the unions and to why people died on the amtrak train because the

unions didn't want do a cheap fix. we talked about this yesterday. please don't act shocked. or why we spent more money per student in america on public education than anywhere else but we don't get the results because of the strangled hold of special interests that think public education is more about jobs than teaching kids. i'm not talking to but teachers. do an extraordinary job. they're the on the front lines. but there are special interests that elizabeth warren needs to stand up to. she loves standing up to the rich and powerful and the people that create jobs. let her stand up to the people that stop reform. >> all i'm going to tell you right now, if there is anyone who would stand up to special interests or the rich and powerful it would be her. >> i'd love to see it. >> let's get her on the line. >> i'd love to see the tape. where did she -- >> there needs to be a "morning joe" phone line where when these things happen we call them up what do you think. >> the pat buchanan the hotline. >> she's the least of my worries. and she's not even running.

which is a shanl. still ahead- >> i think after eight years of "morning joe," we should count down our top ten like sort of guests all-time. no doubt pat is number one. >> hall of famer. >> he is the hall of famer. he was the first person in the "morning joe" hall of fame. he's been in cooperstown for years. >> he has the "morning joe" bust. >> yes, he does. >> still ahead on "morning joe," white house press secretary josh earnest joins the discussion. >> you can't say that. >> plus roger bennett breaks down a new kind of -- >> is it true roger ben net was weeping on the streets, someone saw him in a fetal position? he took this really hard. >> and later, don't tell blythe danner there isn't room for older actresses. >> he i love her. >> the emmy winner discusses her latest project. >> she's coming here? >> well, why not?

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time toe take a look at the morning papers. >> your braces are doing better. >> every day it's better. take a look at the morning papers. >> your braces are doing better. >> every day it's better. >> was it a week ago you started? >> doctor says i'll be able to talk soon. >> you're not talking like a chipmunk anymore. >> i think i'm fine and i think that if i didn't talk about it, nobody would notice. >> the less you think about it the better you are. >> at the beginning of the show yesterday, me came was talking perfectly. enunsciate enunciated. but by the end, she was talking like chuck after 15 rounds of ali.

>> right across the river. >> do you remember what ali called him? the great white dove. >> oh, yes he did. he hung in though. >> he hung in all 15 rounds. >> remember jerry quarry? >> jerry cooney. >> think about this because we don't really care about the papers. in the 1970s, the -- seriously. remind me a better decade for baseball and for boxing. in the 1970s, you would have ali versus frazier, ali versus norton norton versus foreman, foreman versus ali. >> amazing. >> you had the sphinx brothers at the end of the decade. but beginning to end from '71 to '76, that was the golden age of boxing. >> and we're leaving out sugar ray leonard and duran and --

late 70s'70s. >> and baseball willie, pete rose claement, big red machine. >> i was watching hbo '60s, the whole decade of baseball just different sport. guys stayed with teams, also. >> yeah. big difference. >> i'm going to get to -- >> i know all this boy talk is getting you fudgey. do you have any passion news? >> i have the "los angeles times" -- >> that's demeaning. mika knows her value. >> because we're talking about the 1970s, you don't have to behave like the '70s. >> a quaalude i took just kicked in from 1975. >> i wish that was the case but unfortunately, i think it's your reality. >> obviously that shiny jacket from kicked in from '75.

>> and pants to match. >> all right. the "los angeles times" -- >> blythe danner do you think she's impressed by all this? >> she's not going to show up. >> you're in-sutsulting mika. >> it's a multibillion-dollar industry. i wasn't minimalizing. that just dictates who we are. >> you are a misogynist at large. >> i am. >> no he's fine. >> thank you. >> in a 104-90 win, the golden state warriors beat the houston rockets last night to head to the nba finals for the first time in 40 years. but it was warriors guard steph curry's taught whodaughter who stole the show. >> to be four wins away from our goal and that's a special

feeling we have to -- >> dada help me. >> take a week off to get ready and get our minds right game plan right for however we'll beat cleveland. and excited about it. >> didn't even break his comment as he puts the bracelet on. >> i read somebody was complaining -- >> don't get me started. >> no place for kids at a postgame. >> a couple gaykup elcouplekupcountry guy-- couple guys were like we're on a ted line. >> can you imagine? >> i love him for taking her out there. so sweet. up next the must read opinion pages. and just a note i'm going to the barnes & noble palm beach gardens, florida this saturday. may 30. 11:00 for grow your value, my new book. stop by if you're in the area. >> donny should stop pie. >> by. >> no, please don't. >> i was just saluting the

fashion industry. that's what i was doing. because i am ament came capitalist and you are a shining example. ♪ ♪ time upon a once people approached problems the way same. always start at the starting. and questions the same asking. but that only resulted in improvements small. so we step a took back and problems turned these inside-up-down to approach them newly. and that's when we it saw. garbage can create energy. light can talk. countries can run on jet engine technology. when you look at problems in ways different you new solutions find.

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all our presidents come into office looking so vigorous. think about what they look like

on inauguration day. and then we watch them they grow grayer and grayer. by the time they leave, they're as white as the building they live in. now, let me tell you i'm aware i may not be youngest candidate in this race but i have one big advantage. i've been coloring my hair for years. no you're not going to see me turn white in the white house. >> i am woman, hear me roar. >> you know what is exciting is like the movie, shane runs away, shane come back, shane come

back. hillary clinton got her southern accent back. >> she was just having fun. she was in south carolina. >> i think the kind of self-effacing -- obviously it's a simple little thing and doesn't mean much but the more she does of that particularly sometimes at her own expense and the more she owns who she is and being a woman can only help her. >> top of the "washington post," how tough is loretta lynch. >> she's amazing. >> what a bio. >> don't start me on how long it took to get her in there. >> not a lot of people -- >> she is great. >> police department, as well. >> she moved fast on the cleveland police department. pretty remarkable woman. >> there goes intro. dorian moore is here. nice to have you with us. we have a must read. >> "new york times" this morning, piece called have democrats pulled too far left.

he writes among liberals it's almost universally assumed that of the two major parties, it's republicans who have become more extreme over the years. that's a self flattering but false narrative. on most major issues the republican party hasn't moved very much from where it was during the gingrich era. to see how are far the democratic party has moved to the left compare barack obama with bill clinton. mr. clinton acted on a lesson learned the hard way and moved his party more to the center are on fiscal policy welfare, crime, foreign policy. many democrats believe they are rising a tide of presidential inevitability, they may want to rethink that. they're placing a very risky bet that there are virtually no limits to how far left they can go. >> statistically they're wrong. what is happening in this country, so dramatic shift to the left. 20 points on same-sex marriage in the last 15 years. 20 point shift. 15 points on single mothers. every liberal social issue this

country is drifting dramatically to the left. so from a pure demographic point of view -- >> what about on economics, though? >> economics, no. >> i think the country is becoming actually more conservative on economics. less trusting of big government less trusting of big business, as well. >> i'm not so sure about that. because when rick santorum announces his presidency and he talks about income inequality and talks about blue collar conservatism i think the republican party has actually moved to the left on issues of the economy and on social mobility and inequality. so i think there is something bigger than just the parties. i think the country is moving especially around the economy. and republicans are moving too. all the republican candidates are talking about indiana equalincome inequality now. >> as far as the parties, pete wayner saying the republicans aren't the party that is becoming more extreme. it's the democrats. >> if you look at congressional

roll call votes, you see both parties in terms of their votes moving to the extremes, but the republican party over the last 30 years has moved much 30further to the right based on congressional votes. ands both parties have become coherent as voting blocs. >> it's really striking in the senate, i remember reading something talking about how far left the democratic senate had gone. they were bragging about it impact they have had over the past decade. but the senate, you used to have just tons of moderates that would work both sides of the aisle and sort of -- the ted kennedy/orrin hatch relationship was the exception raesh the rule. but those moderates are gone. democrats in the senate have become far more liberal and conservatives have become far more conservative. >> i think it's indisputable it's congress, it's the house, the senate that both parties

have gone toward the extreme. but i think if you think about the last eight years or so, if you look at president obama bill de blasio income inequality issue has definitely moved the party to the left and become the mainstream vision for the democratic party. >> it's moved the country to the left. you wouldn't have are not candidates talking about -- >> two years ago we had ceos telling us why they cooperate raise the minimum wage. now you have walmart, and think with b. about who runs walmart, doing commercials, touting the fact that they have raised their minimum wage to $15. and they actually show it on the screen. they're proud of it. that's a big change. >> i don't know that that proves that republicans are becoming more liberal. >> no, it's the country is moving. an big business is moving. and people are at this point -- >> sure on that issue. yes. >> that's a pretty big issue. >> it is a big issue, but i don't think republicans,

certainly -- we're talking about blue collar republicans in 1994 when republicans first took control of congress in ages we absolutely dominated people making something like $50,000 less. and the people that elected me sure as hell didn't support wall street bankers getting a bill out from washington, d.c. would not have. wanted me to be against, you know the mexican bailout. i think there is a strain of populism that runs through both parties that if there were a candidate the that could grab a hold of populist in the democratic party and republican party, that candidate could win. >> and you were talking about senator elizabeth warren earlier. senator warren and rick santorum agree on two things. trade policy they're both against the ttp and they agree on raising the minimum wage and they agree on inequality. and so not all republican candidates have the same policy responses to the issue of income

unequality, but in 1994 republican candidates weren't talking about income inequality. now most of the major republican candidates are. >> when you have alan greenspan saying that income inequality -- greenspan is the biggest threat to american capitalism, which he did i think like five years ago. lets you know how bad it's become. >> up next, far from the battle line hes in syria, there is another -- >> and you know how we'll fix it we're going to elect another clinton and bush because that will change things. >> no, it won't. there is another shadow war being waged against russia. and according to vice president joe biden, it has profound implications. richard haass breaks down the administration's tough new rhetoric against the kremlin.

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restraint doesn't seem to be per stwad the russians but the president doesn't want to start going down the path. >> why is that? >> because if the russians do more in response, then what. so they're concerned if we act somehow the russians might trump what it is we do. >> do you break with the president or vice president on this one? >> on this one with the vice president. i don't see where restraint is working. the united states should be giving some help to ukraine deal with the low level threats they're facing. muscular policing threats. nato has a real problem where

there is a gap between our commitments in europe and our capabilities. thousand obviously ukraine is not a nato member but it raises a larger question we have demilitarized to a large extent europe. united states has to think about what is it prepared to do in europe. >> if the president is right and providing arms to ukraine actually making vladimir putin up the ante what do we do then? >> if that happens, there are other sanctions, other help we can give to ukraine. strengthen the rest of europe. putin will have to decide what kind of a future he wants for his country. but again, i don't see where restraint is in any way on our part leading to restraint on his part. >> vice president does not freelance on something as important as this going out in public and basically calling out vladimir putin saying this is all because of russian aggression. is this a strategy now to put more public pressure on russia? >> hard to say because you see mixed signals. not necessarily wrong. for example, secretary of state kerry recently went to russia to have conversations with them in

part about ukraine, but also about iran about syria, other issues. that is the whole challenge for theed a hin stragsminute strags. how do you put russia in the penalty box on ukraine but maintain a relationship with them on other issues. >> who should be our partners or are we doing it alone? >> we're doing it with the europeans, chancellor of germ any has taken germany has taken the leads. plus the biggest sanction is the global economic situation which has put pressure on them. but again, it can't be all long term strategy to have russia forever as ostracized. we don't want them to be a spoiler. how do we compartment alize ukraine. >> yesterday we had rand paul

on. talking about how a lot of the republicans and neocons helped contribute to the creation of isis. do you agree with that some. >> i thought he had an incomplete analysis. he's right to point out areas where what the united states did, so-called acts of comission made thins worse. but what mr. paul missed were all the things we haven't done that have given al qaeda and groups like islamic state tremendous space. what we didn't do in syria, didn't help the opposition four years ago, didn't follow through on the threat of red lines. not following up in libya. so i thought pulling the troops out of iraq. so i thought he had partially right on the acts of comission. i thought he missed it on the act of omission. >> who will historians blame on rise of isis? >> they will blame the united states. and also largely blame the region in the sense this is because of the flaws in this

part of the world. isis is there because of the middle east has never come to terms, worked out the basic relationships between governments and society. you've never figured out what is the secular divide what is political, what is religious. so yes we exacerbated things again by what we did and didn't do but we can't let the locals off the hook. there is something deeply flawed about how it has again failed to modernize success tli.successfully. >> coming up one of the darkest corners of the internet, a new documentary that profiles the silk road and alleged master mind behind the criminal. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. ♪ those who have served our nation have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve.

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so we were watching jen arrestardi arrest jeopardy last night -- >> i always jump in. >> so last night we're sitting around watching and we like politics on this show. final jeopardy was about politics politics. >> so kate and dan in the final dealing with this category. governors. and here is the clue. governors of adjacent states these two ex-prosecutors are also adjacent on an alphabetical

list of governors. now we come to our champion. his response was remember the young man is originally from new jersey. and he came up with governor christie and governor cuomo. those are the correct names. and you didn't risk anything. so you're going home with $18,000. >> so he got it right. so governor chris christie had his monthly radio show last night, got apopportunity to respond to that clue. >> tonight's winner by the way is a returning champ and is also from new jersey. >> and the only one who got it from what i understand. the other two crapped out on it. >> yes, they did. >> if you're on jeopardy and you don't know me and cuomo, you deserve to lose. come on. >> ask the governor new jersey radio. most entertaining radio show in america. >> the greatest. >> i call in all the time.

>> they don't let you through, though. >> not any more. >> howard that is not that funny. okay. coming up at the top of the hour bernie sanders is trying some big crap. howard dean is here with a look at the skrchltchor dwchlt he's striking with voters. >> and dueling campaigns, the interesting conversation we had about carly's campaign. making a fist something we do to show resolve. to defend ourselves. to declare victory. so cvs health provides expert support and vital medicines. at our infusion centers or in patients homes. we help them fight the good fight. cvs health, because health is everything.

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very good to know. you were asking -- >> howard just discovered something about me. >> howard is great. >> go ahead. >> i wokrked in vermont. >> i think winston churchill said you don't have a heart. >> exactly. >> if you're old and you still live in monthpelier, you don't have a mind. poor joe came on and he just -- anyway he was fighting himself. like joe doesn't realize -- no, he was. he was writing columns and going to twitter. joe doesn't realize we don't take anything personally here. he can call me a nazi if he wants to. >> oh, come on. >> even though you're wrong 89

percent of the time you never take anything personally. >> that's what people don't realize at home. some people come on this set and they go home and take it personally. i never think twice. howard and i will go like crazy, people will be at lunch going he must hate howard dean. >> howard and you? >> i'm like, no, howard is one of the coolest guys i know. >> oh, yeah. >> people think i don't like you, donny. and they're right. >> we're just related by family. marriage really. >> howard you were saying something offset which actually feeds in to -- what i was going to say is i felt bad the entire first hour because i thought maybe i was too hard on elizabeth warren. >> you had a fight with yourself. you weren't hard on her. >> richard haass just said to me, and this is how the show is

you get it from both sides. haass said you were way too easy on elizabeth warren. >> she should run. >> so let's talk about politics. we'll talk about bernie sanders in a second. but the old ideologies and the old straight line republican this way straight line democratic that way even though washington is that way, howard it's just not that way in america anymore. we're talking about income inequality. how a lot of blue collar people are the people that elected me while the people like wine and cleez cheese republicans never liked me, never trusted me. and sure enough i look on the front page of the "times" and i was fascinated by this. nebraska bans the death penalty. and there are so many stories like this where we go to cpac everybody is like cpac a bunch of right wing in younuts. couldn't find a single person at

cpac who felt the republican party should support the banning of gay marriage. they're just all of these cross currents. >> a lot of it is this young generation which is more libertarian/con receiver difference economically, but much more liberal socially. and that's the whole generation. this new generation of kids say under 35, there is not -- they're not very ideologically divided the way our generation was. and so they tend to embrace libertarian causes on the left such as same-sex marriage -- >> nsa. >> yeah. exactly. and also libertarian causes economically where they're actually more free market driven than the average democrat for example. fascinating. >> and a link to both of those is rugged individualism. the irony is that you just -- if the core -- you said this on the show. the core of a conservative premise is rugged individualism. and yet if you think about all of these things whether it's kick nsa out, whether more --

let people marry who they want let people have kids out of wedlock, whatever it is it's coming back to rugged individualism. a weird kind of liberal meets con rveative point ever view. >> i'm more of a pat toomey kind of republican but arlen specter once gave a speech at the national republican event where he said i want the government spg along the lines of the government should stay out of our wallet and the government should stay out of our bedroom. and that caused a big stir in the republican party back then. that's where they are at cpac that's where democrats are increasingly going. again, skeptical of big government skeptical of big business. >> and hard economic times reinforces that. i also think as a strong xhun tearian ethic in the united states. one interesting thing to watch this spring the pope will come

out, church will come out about climate change. it will be very interesting to see how that scrambles the eggs in the debate. >> what will he say? >> he'll try to make the case that it's the great moral issue of our time, that we live on this planet but we're custodians and we're stewards. and we have real obligations of this generation to our children and our grandchildren. 80 million americans are catholic. that will have a real impact in the american political context. and i think there is a strong sense of community of obligation. >> individual responsibility instead of rugged individualism. it's not at the expense of communal efforts which is basically baked into the afrgt argument. >> i think this generation is very much about individual responsibility, but also unlike past conservative generations believe that there is in fact a responsibility of all of us and each other. that's the the thing -- >> that's part of the individual responsibility. >> what make this is so interesting, yes, they are more skeptical of let's say the

laissez-faire approach of chicks. and this is what scrambles the eggs. they're also more skeptical of the big government solution. very cynical. which i guess this is what is so crazy. there is such a huge opening. >> they're not cynical. they don't believe that institutions are necessary. they don't need them because unlike us who want to protest around washington, 500,000 people and this and that they just go on the web and find 500,000 people that agree with them and then go do something. >> so go back to the rand paul thing. i wish there was a cappedndidate who said we are one world and i'll work really closely with the other side because the other side is not so far. that's what the american public wants to hear. >> not the what the polarized voters in the primaries want to hear. that's the problem. >> if the candidate then said, hey, look, i'm a republican you need a republican in the white house. so you may not agree with everything i'm saying here but

this is the way we're going to get there. and i think people are a lot smarter than we give them credit for and i know it's only 20% fringe that vote this is the primaries, but you might get surprised. >> the problem is for two sent chur churryes, the republicans have had ability to make rules that advantage themselves. so it is incredibly difficult to bridge the gap from an electoral point of view. there are a lot of states where you cannot vote in a republican primary if you're an independent or dwm. >> california is an interesting experiment. >> very interesting. >> so let's take to politics then. bernie sanders is taking his campaign to davenport, iowa today. this after drawing crowds in new hampshire where he was critical of hillary clinton side stepping big issues. asked about clinton hedging on the trade deal the united states is negotiating in the pacific, sanders said quote, i i just don't know how you don't have an opinion on this important issue. do you think the people have

underestimated him or if this is just a surge because it's exciting and fun? >> the people in washington who underestimated him although i think he'll have trouble criticizing hillary clinton's record. there was a fascinating article today that shoied that bernie sanders and hillary clinton voted together 93% of the time when they were in the senate together which i thought was absolutely fascinating. so it will be fascinating. but he has been underestimated. >> look it at the crowds. look at that, you get the sense that this is not going to run a campaign -- this isn't hyperbole. i think it's the truth. he will start a movement. it may be a small movement, but i think he'll start a 3450u6789movement within the democratic party that is hungry for strong progressive/populist. >> you have on separate the show and reality the same way ted cruz draws a big crowd. you put him on the show because he's interesting. we can only see so much of hillary. he's not going to be a

significant factor. having said that it's a good part of a show. >> but i need to correct -- >> i get corrected a lot on this show. >> in my opinion, donny, and we all underestimated ted cruz and ted cruz now if you talk to a lot of people in iowa he will be a player in iowa. he's a guy who was underestimated. you turn around, he raises $31 million in a super pac and suddenly i think ted cruz is one of the top three influencers and you never know with politics, i remember watching howard dean on "meet the press" when he was sitting at 2%, and i look at him and go, wow, this guy is interesting. nobody was giving him a chance. nobody influenced american politics more in 2003. i still remember your speech in bryant park. >> fun. >> it was short of a shot heard around the political world. and somebody that is at 2% and

it could be bernie suddenly bernie doesn't have to beat hillary. eugene mccarthy -- >> the good news for sher what he does is give her someone to be against. it's no longer hillary shadow boxing with herself. now she has an opponent. >> martin o'malley getting in today. >> so i think this is good for her. but i agree, he will do better than people think simply because there is something of a movement and he will play into the progressive part of the party. >> but hillary -- how does hillary play off of bernie sanders? if bernie is going around every day saying where do you stand on the trade deal -- she hasn't spoken out. >> and she's not going to, i hope. >> why do you hope? >> the trade deal is very somp complicated and can't be reduced to a 30 second sound bite. it's good on foreign policy. it helps us a lot in the south china sea. two, it really is a problem for

jobs at home and there are significant issues with large corporations be able to sue sovereign nations. >> would you support the trade deal or not? >> i'm waiting to see. i'm just like hillary clinton. i'm waiting to see. i want to know what is in it and we don't know yet. elizabeth warren know what is is in it, but hillary clinton doesn't and neither do i. >> we'll know what is in it pretty soon. strategically, howard is right. it's fundamentally important to our position in asia. economically, it will help withing a i didn't culture, services, shall manufacturing. it will hurt some manufacturing. that's the honest answer. >> breaking news from the bbc -- >> i was going to say, weather update coming. >> fifa president sepp blatter chairs emergency meeting. >> that's a good idea. >> the guy has been there two terms too long. >> he's really hurting soccer. >> oh, my gosh. >> incredible story.

as if it's -- >> is anyone surprised? >> no. if this was going on in the nfl, roger goodell would be gone by now. it's organized crime. >> like a movie. >> i want to talk more about a woman who has stepped into a role and is moving fast. loretta lynch. you can look at what she did yesterday, howard, not only with fifa, but also in cleveland. very quickly very forcefully very tough. and i will say the republicans -- >> are jerks to hold her out of her seat. >> the republicans that held her up should be embarrassed. the republicans that actually came out early and said they saw something good in her should be commended. >> don't forget she got a positive vote on the judiciary committee with the majority of republicans. >> there was no issue with her. >> this is a no nonsense woman.

i think she's done a great job. >> too bad we had to wait so long. >> two highly public issues as far as what happened this baltimore with the way the d.a. female dwa was tough as nails. so interesting these law and order women who very often the perception going in hillary clinton, what is she going to be like as commander in chief, we're seeing a lot of testosterone from these women. i'm not being glib. >> no, just ignorant. >> no no. whereas we're seeing chops -- >> from a medical point of view. >> no no i was not -- this is not emeka fashion news thing. >> you shouldn't define a woman's worth by using a male medical term. chops may have been more appropriate. >> you get my drift my friend. >> i do unfortunately. >> should we take the shovel away? >> yeah. >> just television.

just people at home scrambling their eggs getting their kids ready for school. making sure grand pa has breakfast. >> the problem is that you seem surprised that women happen to know what they're doing and they make good decisions. >> i've said it always that they're actually tougher than men. what i'm getting to, that's the the truth and i built my business that way. >> actually he did. one thing donny and i have in common, all my campaigns, my congressional offices, women. i always said if you want somebody talking big hire a man. if you want something done hire a woman. >> the worl would be a better place. >> great endorsements for hillary all around. >> let's take this condescending conversation to politics. shall we? yesterday -- erase. okay? rewind. hillary clinton returned to a state that she failed to win in

2008. clinton was back in south carolina. and republican carly fiorina was there, as well. they held dueling events where they focused on equal pay for women and fiorina criticized clinton in a news conference right outside the hotel where she was speaking. she also claimed clinton has not answered questions about the iraq war in an interview with andrea mitchell. >> every single republican candidate has been asked about their vote fors war in iraq. the one person who has not been asked that question because she won't answer the question is hillary clinton. the one person who was on the job in 2011 when iraq started to fall apart was not the republican nominees or candidates for president. it's hillary clinton. she hasn't been asked yet. >> she was asked and she did say last week in new hampshire that it was a mistake, her vote in iraq. she wrote that in her book. so she's spoken of that in new hampshire and in iowa. >> we all make mistakes nobody is perfect. but she is right though hillary will have to answer for

2011. notice how i just moved right over that? because again, we all make mistakes. we'd just rather not make them on national tv like i do every day. but let's talk about rand paul again. i want to get howard in on this. rand paul on the show yesterday. a lot of people editorializing where rand was talking about republicans creating isis. how significant do you think hillary's position in 2011 when the troops were all withdrawn at once? how significant do you think that will be down the road some because i certainly know that what rand paul said on isis is going to be brought up time and time again and spark debate in the republican party. what hillary did in 2011 follow her through the campaign? >> i think it will be an issue, but again, we don't know the tenor of the conversations with the president. it wasn't her decision it was barack obama's decision. he wanted to pull troops out. so i think she will have to

probably have the somewhat awkward decision to make whether she goes public with what she told the president to what extent does she distance herself from the administration she worked for. i think that will be an issue. and i think the question of pulling u.s. troops out in 2011 i think was a mistake. there was more we could have done to have worked around the problems with the iraqi government and the so-called status of forces agreement. the administration did not want it. but we could have done more. >> do you agree with rand paul that hawks created isis? >> i think what created isis was essentially maliki. what enabled maliki was george w. bush and the invasion. i disagree with richard. i think you could have kept troops indefinitely. sooner or later, the lid was going to come off. we've talked about this before in the show. this was going to happen sooner or later in the arab world because offof siks pico 100 years ago. i don't believe syria and iraq

will ever be countries again ever because they were neff really countries in the first place. what bush did when he went into iraq was to unroof all of that and that won't get put back together again. when the troops came home, and i disagree with you on the status of forces agreement as well, was essentially that the natural upheaval, because now he was a very pro iranian pro shiite, anti-sunni corrupt guy, that was what precipitated all this. and i don't think there was anyway out of that. we could have troops there now being killed one bhi one and it won't make a difference. >> everyone was war wary. >> but at this point there wasn't a war. there is a debate about what would have been the political fact of keeping troops there. we will have the same debate by the way about keeping american troops will afghanistan i don't understand 2016. the question is whether modest presence doesn't solve the

problem, but can buy time and space for local politics to work out. i think it could have made a contribution in 2011 in iraq. historians can argue. i think it could play a help aboutful role in afghanistan beyond 2016 even though there will still be local dynamics that will count for more. >> still ahead on "morning joe," what has press secretary josh earnest. and she is drawing rave reviews for her leading role in a summer movie for grown ups. blythe danner joins us. husband plus he's comparing to the first moon walk. roger bennett weighs in on the fbi takedown of fchlifa. s coming fast. could be bad. could be a blast. can't find a single thing to wear. will they be looking at my hair? won't be the same without you bro.

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the only place less appropriate would be the actual surface of the sun. although to be fair, the sun does have a much better human rights record than qatar does. >> with us now roger bennett. roger, for people that have followed the beautiful game for years -- >> it's not so beautiful. >> but great day to be an american. >> you said that this is going to foster the most positive feelings it for americans worldwide. seriously. >> yes. which makes it even better. >> talk about this. >> the department of justice fbi, and the irs called a press conference yesterday at which they took down detonated fifa an organization the world has always believed but never been able to prove is absolutely corrupt like a medieval thiefdom run by a swiss wedding singer turned sports industrialist sepp blatter. a man who makes roger goodell look like a boy scout.

>> like watching the first moon walk? >> as a gentleman that adores america to watch americans line up, i felt as excited as i feel measures must have felt when they watched the constitution be framed are or the moon walk. >> this is big for you. >> it was fifa's lance armstrong moment. >> it was a very big moment. and i guess the question is joey scarborough, we talk football all the time he said the question if this really unwinds is not whether sepp blatter survives but whether fifa survives. in talk this morning from london about europe threatening to leave if sepp blatter is reelected. >> sepp blatter is a remarkable man. he's a cockroach. >> amazing. >> he's running a medieval thief dom there. this is no democracy. this does not way in the used to in america with transparency

checks and balances. fifa started when the sport was kind of an amateur sport. it really was a sleepy little world until the 1980s when they realized the world cup was a super bowl in every country and if it they fused television which took over the world, the games and global brands then that he had what they called the global eclipse. $1.5 million and cash reserve for a nonprofit. >> 5.7 over the past couple years. >> the sponsors are all lining up oh, high god, we don't want to be associated with it. my question to roger, are there any sponsors with their hand in the cookie jar? >> fbi and irs termed it well. sepp blatter is up for a fifth re-election. i'm sure negotiations are happening, exit plans are being discussed. >> bbc reported there is an emergency meeting just now called.

>> i imagine there are several. but via budweiser, coke manage donald's those are the biggest sponsored. all american based. there have been cries for them to back out for years. in qatar, there are hundreds of deaths connected to the stages that are being built. everyone has been saying back off mcdonald's, back off visa. now it's on the front page of the "new york times" and the "nightly news." america suddenly cares. it's a fascinating balance. the only language fifa listens to ultimately is the money. >> let's go to our beautiful game camera and talk to dorian. you have a question for roger bennett. >> you were talking about the billions of dollars that fifa has. how come they stole so little? something like $150 million. why didn't they steal more money in terms of revenue that was going through and was being corruptly passed through fifa? >> $150 million in alleged bribes and kick backs. >> that's only the money that the fbi have tracked that has

gone through american banks over the last 20 years. the honest truth is the number is much more than that. but we'll never know. fifa there is no transparency. no checks and balances. we don't know what any of the salaries are. this is money that goes in brown paper bags. it's old school. it's like -- >> a guy had his associate fly to paris to pick up a suit case of cash. >> yeah, i love hoseufove those kind of suitcases. it's talked about how sepp blatter managed to make money and not have to deal in drugs anymore. but that's the -- the numbers are numbers that go on record. but fifa is not a democracy. and when mike am gar seechael garcia investigated fifa, a massive report that fifa buried. but when he tried to investigate fifa the russian bid that got the 2018 world cup, all of their laptops happened to have

disappeared. no evidence to turn over. this is what the fbi are now dealing with. so the evidence will come out. they have wiretaps. global sponsors like nike will be sucked in. this will be a long running story. >> qatar will never get the world cup, will they? >> in my dreams i department of world cup usa where the u.s. gentlemen running now fifa will hand over the trophy to american hands after the usa win it. but in my nightmare scenario there has been a purge of fifa, all of his enemies have gone and he's stayed on as strong as ever because there are no checks and balances. it's a tiny corridors of power. in my worst scenario, he's in prison and he runs fifa still. it could happen. >> i had a dream last night about mika and katty kay.

>> roger bennett, thank you so much. >> he just said that. that just happened. >> coming up on "morning joe," you can't find it by any standard search engine but those who can find it will get just about anything you can didn't know about the deep web. it's the final days of the ford ecoboost challenge. here we go! last chance to save big on ford, and get our best deals of the season. fusion is rockin' it man. i prefer without a doubt the escape over the cr-v. what doesn't this truck do? but these great deals end soon so act fast and don't miss out. do you want to take my trade-in right now? hurry to the final days of the ecoboost challenge. and get a fusion with 0 for 60 plus $1000 bonus cash, plus $750 cash if you own a ford or qualifying competitive vehicle. there's some facts about seaworld we'd like you to know.

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33 past the hour. "usa today," they thought it was inactive but they were wrong. live anthrax went out to research facilities in nine states and military base in south korea. the mixup came when they sent what they thought were inactive samples. a lab in maryland discovered it was alive and still deadly. defense officials stress that there is no risk to the general public and no confirmed reports of anthrax exposure. four civilian lab workers in the u.s. are taking medication as a precaution along with 22 in south korea who the air force says may have been exposed. a full investigation by the cdc and the u.s. military is under way. >> associated press irs

investigations believe a recent hack of more than 100,000 taxpayers personal information originated in russia. the cyber criminals apparently gained access to the agency's online system called get transcript by using stolen social security numbers. the irs has launched a cringe investigation criminal investigation. >> withbal, six officers have requested their case be moved elsewhere. they call unrelenting and overwhelming criticism of the officers and because of the widespread effect of the riots on the city. this the attorneys argue creates apinsurmountable prejudice. >> and ray mcdonald who has been arrested for the second time in three days. he was taken into custody wednesday evening after alledgedly violating restraining order issued after monday's arrest in charges of domestic

violence and child endangerment. mcdonald was cut by the 49ers last year after a pair of criminal allegations and after being signed by chicago in large was released following the monday incident. >> and the legal battle between tracy morgan and walmart is over after the two sides agreed to a settlement. morgan brought the case after one of its truck driver crashed this to his limbo bus kill killing one man and severely injuring morgan and two others. while details of the settlement were not the disclosed, morgan released a statement saying quote, wall hart did right pie me and my family and for my associates and their families. i am grateful that the case was resolved amicably. walmart added we are deeply sorry that one of our trucks was involved. up next nebraska just became the first conservative state to do something in more than 40 years. what it was and why other states may soon be following suit. ortho bug b gon gives you season-long control of all these types of bugs.

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nebraska is now the 19th state to abolish the death penalty. just enough votes to override the veto from the republican governor pete ricketts. and that issue is the cover story in the late he isst edition of "time," the last execution, why the era of capital punishment is ending. with us now, editor nachbsncy gibbs and also with us david von draly who wrote the cover story. the timing obviously pretty good for "time" magazine. >> yeah the vote was last night. david has been writing about this subject for 30 years and knows more about it than anyone i know and it has been fascinating watching this change happen in our attitude about capital punishment.

it's not a philosophical argument anymore, it's become a very practical one. it's too expensive. it's inefficient. it takes too long. it costs about six times as much to execute someone as to keep them in jail for life. and so you now are finding not just liberals who are philosophically opposed on moral grounds, you have a growing number of conservative politicians saying is this a big government program that doesn't work very well and costs too much. >> and is this a gaschamber. you've seen utah go back to the idea of the firing squad because we've had and you have these botched executions. this is something we've gotten worse and worse at executing. the lethal injection approach which was meant to be a more hughmane way do something that is fundamentally not humane has not worked. >> david, i remember being very surprised back i think it was in the late '90s, maybe early

2000s you had pat robertson coming out talking about second thoughts he was having about the death penalty and that was a bit of a shockwave. first time an evangelical leader said enough this is inhumane goes against our belief system. >> yes this has been a long time coming. the death penalty was briefly abolished in the early '70s, brought back in the mid-70s. in the middle of a huge crime wave. the public was really looking for anything that would respond to the sense of disorder of danger in our society. politicians had to get on the right side of the issue, had to be in favor of the death penalty. but we've figured out how to bring crime down and now we're left with this system that just doesn't work. in california pick on one state, they have 750 prisoners on death row.

they have executed three in the last ten years. i mean it's like being struck by lightlightning. it's completely arbitrary and it just doesn't work. >> and of course the question is, david and nancy, who is the last millionaire to be executed. >> right. >> i mean who is the last person with a top notch legal team to be executed. it just doesn't happen. >> used to be the huge disparity was racial one. african-american was much more likely to get the death penalty. now the saying is those without the capital get the punishment. and now disparity is a class one. >> i have do this because it's out of pensacola, florida. they do some incredible work down there. and this is iron man. >> next week the finals. >> human machine cognition institute. and back when i was there, they

were having things where a eye lot can look right and shoot right, look left and shoot left. but now they're creating a humanlike robot. >> the challenge next week the finals. and this is one of the favorites to win. their assignment was to create a humanoid robot, why does one need one, you can ask. this is for addressing natural disasters or something like fukushima if you wanted to be able to send a row about theebot into an environment that is too dangerous for first responders. so they're a competition to build these robots that would be able to open doors and get in and out of vehicles. a fascinating story about actually how hard it is leave aside what hollywood tells you, it's really hard to get a row bolt robot to be able to do anything. >> very good. what, mika? >> have you seen it?to be able to do anything. >> very good. what, mika? >> have you seen it? >> are you entourage watchers?

that's the set. >> all right. nancy gibbs david, thank you very much. the latest issue of "time" is on news stands now. up next, the stars of the classy 1989 comedy bill and ted's excellent adventure reunite. the very compelling new project they're teaming up on next. ♪ where do you get this kind of confidence? at your ford dealer... that's where! our expert trained technicians... state of the art technology and warranty parts keep your vehicle running right. it's no wonder we sold more than 3.5 million tires last year and durning the big tire event get a $120 mail in rebate on 4 select tires. ♪ you are looking at two airplane fuel gauges. can you spot the difference? no? you can't see that? alright, let's take a look. the one on the right just used 1% less fuel than

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thousands of drugs came through the black website silk

road. >> the silk road, a black market in an area of the internet known as the deep web. >> the secretive pirate was arrested. >> we have an important message and the time is right for the world to hear it. >> there is a community who want to live in a world where the government cannot record their e-mails. >> went on trial today. it could impact the future of internet privacy. >> he was hunted by every law enforcement agency that you can imagine. american law enforcement hacked a foreign server. >> the government has prosecuted other people for doing essentially what the government did here. >> it's not so much about selling drugs as much as it is a political statement. >> we wanted to see beyond good and evil we wanted to question the very foundation. >> documentary that a lot of us have already heard great things about. it investigates an underground section of the internet where and online black market you can

shop, order drugs like heroin cocaine, lsd. with us now, the film's writer and director. we've all heard so much about this. >> rave reviews. reviews. >> tell us about it. >> well, the movie is about -- it looks at the dark net, which is a hidden area of the internet which has been built up over the last 25 some odd years. mostly by the government. i mean mostly to create privacy and anonymity online. mostly used by government agencies journalists, dissidents, people like that that need to provide cover for themselves or their sources. typical of the internet it evolved into other uses as well and it was sort of inhabited by privacy and anonymity advocates. then these markets appeared and the silk road appeared in 2011. and what was unique about it and also what made it take off was that it was the first time that someone had combined the technology of the dark net which

uses a service called tor to get into this environment, with bitcoin. and bitcoin is a crypto currency that you can anonmize. so to break it down simply you have the ability for people to create a community that was totally anonymous using currency that they could make anonymous. >> buy what you want. >> to buy and sell whatever they wanted. right. so it took off like a brushfire. >> technically, how does somebody go into the computer and do that? >> it involves an application. if you use tor, it's literally a browser. it doesn't take you into a dotcom, it takes you into a dotonion, a different section of the internet which is masked essentially. it's a quick non-techie way of putting it sot that people don't know browsing you're not tracked. >> what are the dangers of doing that? >> well, i think they're fairly evident. the dangers are twofold. you have -- there's no real danger in using the dark net.

for journalists and government agents and people who need it for conventional purposes. if you're going to use it for criminal purposes i would actually argue that the internet is a terrible place to commit crime. even if it's within an anonize inned environment because the internet is trackable and you have to be flawless in your methods to not be tracked. >> and yet you guys uncovered 1.5 million online drug sales, 100,000 buyers 4,000 sellers. >> it was very very popular. >> what else besides drugs is happening? >> it was -- well to be totally honest with you, there's a lot of hyperbole about the dark net. in terms of the criminality, it was mostly drugs. you heard about hit men. there aren't really hit men. it becomes almostlike public mania. and there was, to be clear, a very sort of idealistic political motive behind the silk road. it was -- because it requires

some technological acumen to make this thing, so it wasn't like "breaking bad "on the internet. >> talk about ross ulrich. >> ross created the silk road and he's being sentenced on friday. he was tried in the new york court. he is an interesting guy because he's young, comes from an extremely tight-knit middle-class family put himself through two full scholarships has a master's degree from penn state, mechanical engineering. had a squeaky clean past loving pacifistic guy who on the other hand is being accused of a lot of heinous crimes and has been convicted of being a drug kingpin, a -- facilitating hacking, computer conspiracy. these are charges that carry potential life sentences. so it's a very big deal. and the movie raises a lot of questions. that's our aim. how do you -- how does law enforcement track cases in

anonymous areas of the internet. how do we try these cases in court when you're dealing with anonymous users, anonmized currency fictitious user names, how do you know you have the right guy? >> assuming he goes to jail for life, won't somebody else pop up to take his place? >> well, people have madly. i made a movie before this about napster and i said it's analogous to napster. it's almost identical because technology works the same way. you shut down the silk road and immediately, literally hundreds of copycats appeared and the film is really about the beginning of a movement. and it's not to be scary. i don't think the world is going to be -- ending because of this. in fact i think it will probably eventually become somewhat mainstream. but is about the beginning of a movement. >> this is narrated by someone you've worked with before on something slightly different. >> yeah, well for him, you know, it kind of was and wasn't.

keanu and i have been friends a very long time and he's very interested in these issues. >> put that picture back up. [ laughter ] >> you can't just naught on and take it off. >> don't show it too long because my mom will start bugging me about why my hair doesn't look like that anymore. >> you don't look much different. >> no, it doesn't. "deep web" prepares sunday night at 8:00 on epix. it looks fantastic. coming up at the top of the hour, with friends like these, who needs enemies. republicans pile on rand paul after his interview on "morning joe." why his comments on isis are sure to create a real debate with the republican party moving forward. plus, the latest on the fbi's takedown of fifa. the 14 people facing charges and another name who is not but they'll get him sooner or later. >> she will. we live in a world of mobile technology, but it is not the device that is mobile, it is you. real madrid have about 450 million fans.

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investigation into the inadvertent transfer, are similar psalm nepals containing anthrax. >> the samples were shipped as inactive not live anthrax. >> no personnel have shown signs of possible exposure. >> they corrupt it had business of worldwide soccer to enrich themselves. >> the man who gave the fbi they needed was chuck blazer. he had become so rich through bribes he reportedly had a luxury apartment just for his cats. >> can you trust anything?

anymore? >> no. >> it's like soccer man. it's just sad. >> this really is the world cup of fraud. >> i am running for president of the united states. [ cheers and applause ] >> they makes seven candidates declared in the gop side, but the republican candidate making the most news today is carly fiorina. did you plan this campaign trip before hillary clinton did? >> well i'm pretty sure i did. >> clinton was shadowed by carly fiorina who cashed the hotel where clinton was speaking. >> she is not trust worthy and she lacks a track record of leadership. >> i may not be the youngest candidate in this race but i have one big advantage -- i've been coloring my hair for years. [ cheers and applause ] >> a lot of people are trapped inside the beltway and they think war is always the answer but i'm asking difficult questions of republicans. do you think the invasion of iraq made it more stable or us more safe? we now have isis to contend with. >> lindsey graham would say isis exists because of people like rand paul who said let's not go

into syria. >> i would say it's exactly the opposite. isis exists and grew stronger because of the hawks in our party who gave arms indiscriminately and most arms were snatched up by isis. these hawks also wanted to bomb assad, which would have made isis' job even easier. they created these people. even they have talked about in foreign policy they've been wrong about for 20 years, yet they have somehow the gall to point fingers otherwise. >> all right. senator rand paul on "morning joe" yesterday with comments that seemed to rock the political world. the "wall street journal" editorial board took know writing a piece entitled "rand paul created isis." >> "well, okay, the headline goes far but the claim about as plausible as rand paul's outburst that republican internationalists like lindsey graham and john mccain are responsible for the rise of islamic state." we'll get to that in one second but i noticed the headline here.

theft of copper from the a-train disrupts service is this the 1880s, "ail i can't tell smith & jones" from 1971. isn't that crazy. >> that's the kind of thing they steal copper from abandoned houses. that was a problem in detroit and it's happening on the train here now. >> "new york times" has a massive spread on fifa. >> lovely guys. those whacky guys. >> they are awful human beings. and look at the guy at the top. >> it's a good article. >> he's going to jail. >> i don't know. >> szep baghdader? >> how wide-- sepp bladder. >> they let countries know if they were -- got involved in their business. they could kick them out of the world cup. and not let them participate and really what was so remarkable to

me, you would just watch and like you would know so much of this stuff was rigged. and you're like why doesn't anybody bring these people to heel and it was fear of fifa that countries were actually afraid to do what loretta lynch did yesterday she's tough. >> don't you feel like qatar was the tipping point? everyone knew something was going on. >> 122 degrees in the summer. >> i remember when i was a young lawyer i was talking to a guy who was a partner the law firm where i worked it was dan lowsier. i said why don't we get this much he said "pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. we'll be pigs. requests that's what happened. an amazing story. so bill clinton and eric holder are going over to help on the u.s. bid for 2022. and they're talking and they're worried about all these -- all

these other countries are worried about england, worried about the countries they should worry about. and the second qatar got it clinton and holder look at each other, everybody else looks at each other, england gets like one or two votes, and everybody there knew it was rigged. and that was the tipping point. >> we've talked a lot about our lack of faith in institutions wlrks, whether it's congress, the irs, the secret service. it's just one more. can you trust anything anymore? >> no. >> it's sock man. it's a world sport. it's just sad. >> well we're kicking on soccer, we should kick on it. when you look at the nfl, we talked all last summer and fall about sexual abuse and alleged sexual abuse and we see ray mcdonald is back in jail domestic abuse and we're thinking, okay -- and we were asking these questions, will they look at a person's

character when they draft people? yes, yes, they will yes, they will. number-one draft pick jameis winston, a guy that got busted for stealing from a supermarket. a guy who there's a very compelling case that even as the state attorney said something went terribly wrong that nighting this this young woman said her face was jammed on the floor and she wasraped by winston. number one draft pick! there's such a breakdown in trust in institutions. it's one of the crazy things. you look at all the institutions, it's kind of the option of the 1960s, the one institution people trust is the military. isn't that crazy? >> we can go all the way back -- i mean, boy, i don't know when it start bus if you want to start at 9/11 you can go to intelligence, you can go to the banking system it goes on and on. you talked about sports major league baseball with steroids and honestly if you look at this chart on the front page of the

"new york times," that's the the same kind of chart the fbi puts together when they put together a mob. it's a crime family. that's how they lay it out. that's the way it was described by loretta lynch yesterday. >> bill neely is with us from -- actually, from switzerland, right? you're in london. it's -- i'm one of the few, certainly on this set, i'll say soccer fans. >> it's not a real sport. >> football fan and it was always difficult every four years during the world cup trying to explain how screwed up fifa was and the one thing i can never explain is why everybody put up with it for as long as they did. so you've been a fan for a very long time. why? why did europe and the world put up with this corruption from sepp bladder for as long as they did? >> well i suppose because the gravy train just kept on

rolling. i mean, the world cup is one of the most if not the most lucrative sports events in the world. one billion people watched last year's final between germany and argentina. fifa gets 90% of its income from the world cup but there was a significant shift overnight. follow the money, you might say, because the corporate sponsors who pour money into the world cup are beginning to feel very embarrassed and say some pretty tough things. coca-cola was first saying this haas tarnished fifa. visa came in quite quickly after that and said we need swift and immediate action. it will reassess its sponsorship of the world cup if it doesn't get that. and one by one they all began to come in, including mcdonald's. these are not the kinds of headlines that corporate sponsors want to be associated with. the stench of corruption. and in the "times" of london "world cup of fraud."

but do you know what? fifa's an jewelul annual jamboree opens today as if nothing happened. the only thing is not up for discussion is the allegations of rampant systematic deep rooted corruption. for fifa it's business as usual. so let's talk about the off side rule and goal line technology and let's reelect 79-year-old sepp bladder for a fifth term as president as if he was an african potentate because he keeps all of them sweet. but, guys, the fbi has just broken down the front door of fifa and the winds of change are blowing through fast. the first thing you might see today is the european football nations are threatthreatening a split. they're threatening to walk out of the congress if the reelection of sepp bladder, the president, goes ahead tomorrow because they want change. >> so europe is talking about walking out which, of course goes to my son and i who talk

fifa all the time and, you know he said the question is not whether sepp bladder survives it's whether fifa survives in the long run. you and i know and everybody that's followed this organization knows just how corrupt this is going to be. you're right, loretta lynch kicked down the front door. she'll find very ugly things there. >> that's right. and the corporate sponsors for example, talk about something has to change and it has to change immediately. but fifa has shown for decades that in fact it is incapable of change. this is, as the indictment says its systematic and deep rooted. it certainly won't sepp bladder is there. he was supposed to make a public appearance, he's cancelled that. there's no plans to cancel the leadership election for tomorrow so there are already strong indications that, in fact fifa will not change just as it

hasn't smelt the coffee for the last two decades. >> bill, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. willie, sepp better lawyer up. our buddy roger bennett is in the "new york times" story above the fold he calls the way only roger bennett could, sepp bladder part james bond baddy, part daly politician writ large. >> i need to put that at the end of all of my sentences. did you see rand paul's interview on "morning joe" yesterday, writ large? >> oh stop. let me continue where we began. >> you like that? yeah. it sounded smarter. if i could do it with a katty kay british access. >> rick santorum, george pataki, hillary clinton, elizabeth warren in the news which we'll get to in a second. but what rand paul send in "morning joe" in your interview, isis and john mccain are responsible for the rise of the

slooit. islamic state. iaeae isis grew stronger because of the hawks in our party who gave arms indiscriminately. the "wall street journal" continues to write "in mr. obama's second term, the u.s. has largely followed mr. paul's foreign affairs preferences to the letter and the result has been more chaos and disorder. if he wants to run as an obama republican on foreign policy he shouldn't also adopt the obama trick of rewriting history. it reflects poorly on his judgment as a potential commander-in-chief." >> donnie, what do you think? >> as a guy who plays liberal on this show i'm a hawk by nature. having said that, there's a cogent argument to go back and say, hey, look w doesn't go into iraq saddam hussein is there, much less isis. argument, if we did take out assad you'd have more isis there. so this is one of those things you can make a left brain argument but the right brain wins and says no no no it's not right there. but at the end of the day he

does make a cogent case. >> i think the argument that republicans should make and i think the "wall street journal" did make is -- well actually, they didn't make this argument. if you were rand paul, if we followed rand paul's foreign policy, there would be no isis because we would have never gone into iraq and saddam hussein would not be -- saddam hussein would still be there, isis would not. if we did not pull out of iraq the way we pulled out of iraq right? if you had just gone george w. bush or dick cheney's way isis would not be there because that void would have never been created. the argument you could make is, if you're a republican, that the "wall street journal" did make, is that it was hillary clinton, people like hillary clinton that were wrong both times. that were wrong saying let's go into iraq and then let's leave iraq quickly that created the first void. and then after order was brought, which dexter filkins

and everybody else said was in 2008 and 2009 pulling out created a new void that did create the environment for isis. so hillary was wrong on iraq twice. i think that's the argument certainly that republicans would make, that i would make. >> i'm going to also give rand paul kudos in the sense that i like that finally you have republican candidates who whether you agree or disagree say, look i'm run in a general election here have the kind of courage to do that. a lot of people are saying it's the death of his campaign. >> i think it's the birth of a real conversation. >> it is the birth of a real conversation. and h this hopefully will be a bellwether for other republicans to say look i don't have to appeal to those 80 caucus voters in iowa. >> i've said it time and time again, whether i agree with rand paul republicans have lost five out of the last six flexions in the popular vote. rand paul yesterday shook things

up. other republicans need to shake things up, too, on a lot of issues. like, for instance i'm waiting for the republican to get out there and we talked about abolishing the department of education. that sounds radical, but talking about instead of top-down education, talking about getting as much power and authority and noun classrooms. and tear down the federal bureaucracy. who's going to say that? who's going to say on the other end of it the only thing the federal government can do is infrastructure. we need to spend more money -- we can spend more money on education but we need spend more money on infrastructure and spend it more wisely. i think that was good what rand paul did yesterday shaking up the conversation. >> he shook it up and that may be music to the ears of moderates and you heard democrats saying yes he's right about that. but in a republican primary that's a difficult argument to make. rick santorum jumped all over him yesterday, bobby jindal jumped over him.

rick santorum said rand paul is now the bernie sanders of american foreign policy in our republican party. it just reinforces the view that a lot of people have of rand paul that he's an isolationist, that he wants to withdraw when there are great threats out there, republicans can make the case that's a bad idea right now. >> but i think that more remembers are skeptical, mika, of the next war than want to go into the next war. with i -- with all do respect to lindsay who i lickke very much senator john mccain who i like very much and others, they're actually in the minority. not in washington, d.c. but among republicans i've spoken to over the past 20 years as far as the use of military force. republicans until george w. bush were much more nuanced and careful. they were more like colin powell. >> let me get one more story in here at least. former senator and 2012 presidential candidate rick santorum became the seventh republican to officially enter the race for 2016.

he kicked off his campaign near his childhood home in pennsylvania. santorum highlighted his blue-collar background to appeal to middle-class voters and also took a shot at hillary clinton. >> this is a piece of coal. this is where my american story started. my grandfather pietro was a coal miner who brought my dad, seven-year-old aldo from fascist italy. like millions of other americans, he didn't come for this, he came for this -- freedom. [ cheers and applause ] hillary clinton [ boos ] and big business they have called for a massive influx in unskilled labor. business does it because they want to control costs. hillary does it -- well she just wants votes.

their priorities are profits and power. my priority is you, the american worker. >> okay we've got santorum pataki expected to announce today. >> i know we've got to get to one more story. rick santorum we had rick santorum on here. regardless of what a lot of people think about rick and i know a lot of people in manhattan may not like him, he's got the best message, the best economic message for republicans. >> he's got that appeal to the blue-collar republicans. and i'm going to put him with rand paul and even though they're different, i disagree with a lot of santorum's views. i respect that he says what he believes. there's an honesty and directness, last cycle we had him on here. i disagree with a lot of his views but the man at least stands for what he believes and doesn't waffle and i think more and more voters are going to

demand that. hillary is going to have to be accountable to squishy issues. >> he's on tomorrow. also john kasich is looking at launching his bid at june 30 but he said this about jeb bush. "i don't know anything about bush's theme i really don't. i've never listened to him. what's right to rise? getting up in the morning" okay. still ahead on "morning joe," white house press secretary josh earnest is standing by. we'll go to him live in just a moment. plus, what is driving the day on wall street? cnbc's brian sullivan has business before the bell. and later, blithe danner has been called a lot of things over the course of her long career. now you can add another one to the list. >> i think i know what's going on. are you some kind of cougar. >> yeah, right, that's me. >> you're a cougar and i'm proud of you! >> will you get out of here! >> don't let him videotape you because it will be all over the internet. >> you should know laugh lav. >> the emmy award winning a

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. mika we've been talking about how know republicans will jump into this race for president. it's sad. >> oh come on! how many are there? >> republicans don't any choices. 74. is it up to 4 or 75? >> it's up to 75. the republican field has grown by at least one name, former new york governor george pataki unveiled his campaign logo in a new video, though he does not say he's running, he's going to do that later today in new hampshire. but when he does that -- >> look at that silhouette. >> -- it's going to bring the official number of candidates up to eight but we're up to more like 18 or not. and there's a new q poll out

this morning that shows a five-way tie for the republican nomination. we've got former governor jeb bush at 10%, mike huckabee at 10%, ben carson at 10%, scott walker 10%, marco rubio at 10%, rand paul's only down three points. ted cruz four. rand paul is in the margin of errors, mika and donny, you have six people within the margin of error. there is no parallel in modern american political history to what is going on. >> good news or bad news for the republican party? i can spin it both ways. >> it's good news for jeb bush. >> agree. >> at the end of the day, jeb versus the conservative jeb loses, he just does.

jeb versus five conservatives, jeb wins. it's the math of it all. >> jeb and the democrats feel this way. the democrats, we'd love a cruz or walker or rubio. they are afraid of jeb. they feel this is the one candidate that really really could beat them and that's -- comes from a lot of people who give money to democrats, he's the only one that scares them. >> i actually think, and i've had the conversation, we talk about jeb's messing up this way, jeb's messing up that way. i was talking to a very powerful conservative in washington yesterday and said well you know you're following this closely, what do you think? well, if i'm looking from 30,000 feet i think jeb bush can beat hillary clinton and he's the only republican right now that i can say would likely beat hillary clinton. >> i like hillary a lot. i think jeb beats her because i think he takes at the end of the day --

>> and he's getting dirty. >> he takes the suburbs of philadelphia, the suburbs of washington, the suburbs of cincinnati, those little swing -- seven or eight districts, you know them better than anybody who want to go just right of center. >> i campaigned this with guy. i've never seen anybody campaign better around hispanic voters as far as a republican and he does it extraordinarily well. if jeb does get the nomination and runs a good campaign -- >> takes rubio as a vice president. >> suddenly you have florida going republican you have new mexico, you have arizona, you've got nevada you've got colorado that republicans have a very good shot at. it's fascinating. but that said it's wide open. scott -- i'm sure scott walker's people could say the same thing. rand paul trying to break down doors. it's going to be a fascinating race. >> i think there's anningment for jeb and maybe some of these others getting dirty early and getting out there and getting the kinks out and -- makes you a

nimble candidate. mitch mcconnell attended the short extension of the patriot act early saturday morning and this is what the majority leader had to say. >> the senate will pro steed a bill to exfend expiring provisions until june 8 that the bill be red a third time and passed with no intervening action or debate. >> mr. president -- >> is there objection? >> mr. president? mr. president? >> senator from kentucky? >> reserving the right to object, we have entered into a momentous debate. this is a debate about whether or not a warrant with a single name of a single company can be used to collect all the records, all of the phone records of all of the people in our country with a single warrant. i will object and i do. i object. >> senator rand paul with his first of three objections. parts of the nsa data collection begin shutting down on sunday

which has the administration making a full court press to keep the program alive and they made some dire warnings. >> as attorney general i am committed to ensuring this nation protects the civil libber 's the of every american while also chemoing our country safe and secure. unfortunately, some of the vital and non-controversial tools that we use to combat terrorism and crime are scheduled to shut down on sunday. without action from the senate we will experience a serious lapse in our ability to protect the american people. today i join the president in urging the senate to work through the current recess in order to make sure we can continue to appropriately safeguard this country and protect its citizens. with us now we have white house press secretary josh earnest. josh mika just said as she was looking at rand paul on the side of shutting this down and loretta lynch on the side of you guys keeping the patriot act going, she said "i'm so confused. i'm so confused." >> it's a role reversal.

>> let me ask you a question this way, why do you agree with george w. bush and dick cheney. why does the white house disagree with rand paul that keeping the patriot act in place is important? >> i would say we agree the 338 democrats in the house of representatives who passed a piece of reform legislation earlier this month through the house of representatives that would both protect our civil liberties, reform the controversial bulk collection program senator paul was referring to but also protect the non-controversial law enforcement authorities that we know are critical to keeping our country safe. this is a reform proposal that's got strong bipartisan support and the fact is because of this squabbling we're seeing in this divided republican party in the senate we are at risk it's unnecessary risk. it's time for republicans in the senate to put the national security interests and the civil liberties of the american people ahead of their political ambition. >> how dangerous does the white house believe it to be if the patriot act is not renewed? >> what our national security

professionals tell us is these are critically important tools. they use these tools when necessary to get information that they don't otherwise have access to. they do it with authority give on the them by congress and when they have the approval of a judge. if congress doesn't renew these authorities they can't go to the judge to get approval and they don't have access to information they say is critical to conducting investigations that are important to keeping us safe. this program has been reformed. the government is no longer in the business of holding the data. we have reformed this program in a way to protect our civil libber 's the but what we need to make sure doesn't get lost are protections that are not controversial and these are authorities law enforcement professionals use everyday in investigations that our national security officials need to construct terrorism investigation. >> explain how it's still useful and what you get? strchlt reforms are that previously the federal government has been collecting

this bulk data these are the information related to phone numbers dialed, the length of the call that kind of information. sort of not the substance of the conversation but the data associated with this. this is investigation that the government will no longer hold. this will be investigation that will continue to be held by the telecom companies and when necessary the government can go to a judge, get approval from a judge to search the data being held by telephone companies. that's consistent with the way we review information, again, with a court's warrant to review information about hotel records or financial transactions bank records, credit card records. this is information that our law enforcement professionals use on a regular basis to conduct law enforcement investigations. we need to make sure our terrorism professionals have the authority that they need to get access to this information with the approval of a judge to conduct a national security investigation. so those are the reforms. they are non-controversial elements relating to roving wiretap, lone wolf provisions. these are authorities that are

not controversial, subject to widespread debate that will expire if the republicans in the senate don't get their act together and pass a piece of legislation that already got the support of 338 democrats and republicans in the house. >> all right. let's switch to another topic. we had a debate here yesterday, somebody had written an op-ed in the "new york times" saying that isis was not winning, that they were back on their heels. you obviously got into the middle of is this debate be the debate is going on in washington day in and day out. how well is isis doing? are they winning or losing? what does the white house believe right now? do we have isis back on their heels? >> well, joe, i think we would say that there are areas where we're making progress and areas where we have experienced setbacks. it was about 10 days ago we saw the president order a special operations raid inside syria to kill a senior isis leader. that's evidence of some success. it was only a month ago that with the backing of coalition military air power that they

were able to drive isil out of tikrit. at the same time there are areas of anbar province including ramadi what we have seen isil make gains and drive back iraqi security forces. this is consistent with what we see in military conflict there are going to be days of progress and periods of setback. what the president believed is important are a couple of things. the first is we're not going to put u.s. military service members on the ground in a sustained combat operation. that's not in the best interest of our country. we're not going to do for the iraqis must what they must do for themselves. what we are prefardpared to do is train iraqi security forces make sure they have the equipment to take the fight to isil on the ground in their own country and back up their efforts with military air power. this is a recipe that has succeeded in a variety of areas, whether that's tikrit or areas like the mosul dam or haditha, we have employed this strategy to drive back isil. this is the same strategy we

need to redouble our efforts in ramadi and anbar province to eventually drive isil forces out of that region of iraq. >> josh earnest, thank you very much, good to see you. >> thank you so much josh. >> thanks for the opportunities, guys. how kickstarter helped make one of the most talked about movies so far of the summer. the star of "i'll see you in my dreams." blithe danner. >> is she sing? >> and we have brett healy here as well. we'll be right back. you wouldn't do half of your daily routine. so why treat your mouth any differently? complete the job with listerine®.

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>> when you going to move in here? susan just passed on she was two cottages over. >> that reminds me we got new brochures and i want you to see the new brochures. >> i don't want to see the new brochures, i saw the old brochures. >> well, i'm bringing them to your house this week. >> yeah carol, you're missing out on all the action. >> no i'm happy in my house. i'm very happy, thank you. >> guys ask about you all the time carol. i could hook you up. >> oh come on! don't start with that. >> what? >> dating talk the second husband talk. you couldn't pay me. >> but they do pay you -- when they die. >> not always. [ laughter ] >> oh my gosh! i'm going to see this. i don't go to movies blythe. >> that was a scene from "i'll see you in my dreams."

>> joining us now star of the critically acclaimed film emmy winning actress blythe danner. also writer and director brett haly. and you guys have a connection, there's even a picture of you two together. sorry. >> very courageous of you to come back on set. >> wow. >> oh, my god. >> that's what i was telling you about, joe. >> is that joey scarborough? >> no that's you, joe. and brett. >> that was brett? that was you in '96? >> '96. >> take that down please. >> oh my gosh, this movie. >> it's like with jfk. can i just say this is the first one i've been nervous on because you guys are my bedfellows. i watch you every morning in my pajamas and here i am in regular stuff. >> you could have come in your pajamas. maybe you'd feel more comfortable. >> joe is often in his pajamas. >> even when i'm in l.a. i dvr you at 3:00 in the morning because i can't get up. >> we're huge fans of yours and we can not believe -- >> so you'll be nice to me.

>> after your cnbc interview with donny deutsch where he asked you out on the date -- >> he did not. >> i did! >> you're full of soup. >> you yelled at me. you were by remote. i said you are so beautiful and i think you just blocked it out. >> so let's talk about this movie. this is hilarious. it's absolutely hilarious. >> she's so great. >> she is. and you know blythe really -- she's in every scene of this film and i think we've been saying it's her first leading role in a film but it's probably like in 40 years or something like that that she's really gotten to shine and i think you get to see all sides of her and we have an incredible cast sam elliot martin starr, june squibb, rhea perlman, mary kay place. we're just -- and the film is this little tiny film. with epimade it for hardly nothing. >> kickstarter. >> the sort of kickoff funds came from kickstarter, seed money. and then we put together the

money with some individual investors. >> let me market this for you. >> this is so incredible the people you got involved in this. the writing looks -- >> mika and i went to a premier a couple weeks ago of something that probably cost $100 million. i can tell you already there are more laughs in the five minutes we've seen this than in the two hours of that movie. >> it has great charm. but in fella, he wrote it when he was 29 and his insight into what we go through as we're coming towards our last chapter or whatever it is is really uncanny. i read the script and i thought well, this is great but he's basically -- well second time director you just have -- you fly by the seat of your pants in a lot of these independent films but i had no idea what great hands we would be in. >> donny, market it. >> what's so brilliant about this film, the mistake in hollywood is we have to go to 18 to 3034-year-olds. why? because the disposable income is with people who are older and that's a story that we're dying

far movie like this. >> the baby boomers. >> and this commercially will be a great movie and i think it's going to give the courage -- it's not -- people don't want to see 23-year-olds everywhere. yes, maybe 23-year-olds but -- you know i want to see this -- >> i'm going to watch it. >> i want to see the movie. >> we had a great reaction from young women who think -- one of my friends who's in her 30s said she was in tears at the end, you're laughing and you're crying and she said you know i was thinking about how older people older women and men are marginalized and become invizable. >> i'm not a young woman but i'm already seeing a part of it, there's something affirming about it, like okay, you don't -- >> it's ultimately positive yes. >> it's hopeful. >> what's so interesting is i was talking to donnie like when i turned 50 suddenly it was like -- i called myself half man because you're like,s in the end you're halfway there. >> you're talking about it.

>> when people turn 30 they're like "oh, i'm too old." people turn 40 -- constantly after you turn 21 you're fretting about this the entire time. >> it was on my mind when i came up with this idea about what is the future? but i think there's a lot of films about older people in hollywood that are about looking back with regret a lot of time. this film is about looking forward. no matter what age you are, there's still more life to be lived. there's still more going on. >> i always told my parents this. mika was -- mika does these incredible know your value seminars and one woman said i'm 60 years old, i've just been fired, i'm moving towards retirement. what do i do? i have no leverage? and mika said wait, the next president of the united states is going to be a 69-year-old woman when she's president of the united states. all republicans wish they could resurrect a 69-year-old guy when -- ronald reagan when he was first president. we live a world now where people

live so old that suddenly -- >> and for women it's a longer road. >> you're dealing with relationships for the next possibly 30 years. >> we it's about never giving up and about constantly trying constantly looking -- again, looking forward and, you know, i think if you look at the cast a lot of our cast the majority of our cast is over the age of 65 and they're all living incredibly full lives and they're amazing artists and actors. >> it looked fun. it looked found do too. >> i thought it was going to sword so hard. i was worried about my stamina in every scene. but brett made it so easy. and because it's so beautifully written it just sort of washed over us and took us along. >> "i'll see you in my dreams in theaters now." >> can you guys come back? i'm serious? can you come back and talk again. >> in my pajamas? >> how about a pajama party? >> great. >> we'll all do it. >> i think you are so beautiful. >> do not ask her out again.

>> no i think -- >> don't ask her again. >> i'm not asking! >> he's married! >> i'm not married! >> you're not innovatedvited because you would come naked. >> blythe danner thank you so much. it's a great honor. and pencesacola boy, thank you so much. up next we have christopher hill. we'll ask about rand paul's comment on this see that republicans are responsible for the creation of isis. we'll see what he says when he returns. this is my body of proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis from the inside out... with humira. humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. it's proven to help relieve pain, stop further joint damage and clear skin in many adults. doctors have been prescribing humira for nearly 10 years. >>humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers including lymphoma have happened,

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ago. are we winning or losing our fight against isis right now. >> well, i think the answer to that is somewhat mixed is about right. sy wouldn't overreact to some of these issues where you have a hundred isil fighters and a thousand iraqi soldiers and somehow the iraqis lose. i think these are tactical breakdowns. they'll be repaired. the big problem, though, is there's been little progress in terms of making it will sunnis of iraq loyal to the shi'a-led government in baghdad. that's going to be a tough proposition. and plus as well trained as our military is it's not so easy to train iraqis. you remember those rumsfeld press conferences where he'd get up everyday and tell us how many battalions they trained that day. it's not that easy. >> we've been talking about it here. you remember it better than anybody, 1991. we heard they were the fourth-largest army in the world and they were going to provide a

fierce resistance they melted away. the same thing happened in 2003. the same thing happened a month or two ago. i have to say now though if you're a sunni in iraq why are you fighting if ar centralized government out of baghdad that's controlled in part or at least influenced by iran? >> i don't think the sunnis have ever really accepted the proposition of a shi'a-led iraq. you're right. they look at shi'a and they see iran, even though that's not really fair to iraqi shi'a. the trouble is sunnis are 20%, arab sunnis are 20% proposition in iraq, yet they have this strategic depth throughout the arab middle east. they feel like they ought to be in charge. so it's really difficult to get them to play a kind of secondary role and even when the iraqi army did very well in tikrit a couple of weeks ago there were sunnis in washington arguing for a new sunni stand in western iraq. so this is a tough proposition and it's made difficult -- even

more difficult by this lack of a policy in syria that we have. this is a tough one. >> you go across the middle east, so many people tell you until assad's gone we won't get cur turkey on our side, we won't get other countries excited about this. at the end of the day even though we don't want to remove -- skeptical about removing another arab leader from power. is there any way forward with a unified middle east as long as assad's in power? do we need to support the removal of assad? >> i don't think assad can remain in power, but at the same time i think we need to articulate what it is we want to see in syria. this notion that you can just go into one country and lop off the leadership and expect everyone to get behind a new leader at a national level doesn't prove to be the case. what people do is revert to sectarian loyalties so this whole regime change idea that this is just easy, go into a

country, take away the leader and everything will be fine it hasn't worked. there's no empirical evidence this stuff works but we still talk about regime clang. what we need are political arrangements for the future. >> exactly. not relying on lines drawn a hundred years ago. i was going to ask who created isis but i think a more fascinating question right now because you were just talking about it about we need to articulate what we see in syria. what do we want to see in syria? articulate it for us? >> what we need in syria is an agreement that there should be a syria within international boundaries. it should be a heavily decentralized syria. there should be multicammer ral -- lesson one of democracy is to have majority rule but lesson two is to have minority rights but in the northeast no one gets to lesson two.

>> whatever happened to the united nations united nationss? if this were happening in 1949 then we would call in the united nations and a lot of people in blue helmets would go there and we'd have a decentralized -- we would have a germany split into four portions. why can't that happen in 2015 in syria? >> well, there's no such thing as united nations forces. what there are are member states who contribute forces to the united nations. i think the united nations really took a hit during be t whole bosnian conflict where we had the spectacle of these blue helmeted troops standing around while the serbs massacred the bosnian muslims. so i think the unas an entity providing troops has been very much damaged by that and many countries have not provided by the kind of necessary forces. >> ambassador christopher hill. thank you very much. we'll be right back.

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