a special of yahoo! the founder of a small kin care company uses a big business mod until putting together a team of sales reps. successful strategies from those in mary kay and others and selling from the most successful entrepreneurs, that's all coming up next on a special sales edition of yahoo! "your business". >> small businesses are revitalizing the economy and american express open is here to

help. that's why we're proud to present "your business" on msnbc. ♪ hi everyone. i'm jj ramberg and welcome to "your business" and today marks our 400th episode so we wanted to use this show to focus on something all small business owners need to be good at to survive, sales. whether you are b to b or b to c you have to understand the trigger points to hit to get someone to use your service. before that you have to get their attention in the first place. the founder of a skin care company found that the best way to do this was to turn to a big business model. hiring a team of sales rep to get his brand into doctors' offices around the country.

>> i like to say it's not just the sizzle with them we're getting a steak also. >> dr. chip cole is a satisfied customer. >> we have someone we have personal contact with that keeps us educated. >> the owner of oculus skin care center says some sales reps miss the mark. >> it's all about a relationship and the end product which is a consumer and that's what's important to us. >> aesthetician stacy clark doesn't meet every sales rep that walks through the door but denise made an impression. >> they know when to push you and know what products will work well in your office and look at your needs. >> denise is exactly the kind of person dr. carne thornfelt needed when he started epionce.

>> there is no substitute for having someone representing your company walking into an office introducing that potential account to your concept. >> she gets the importance of face-to-pace meetings and making personal contact with chip and stacy. >> you don't know what anybody will ask and have to know the answer or be able to say i'm not sure about that but i can get the aegis for you. >> dr. karl's sales team was born out of necessity. >> as i observed the pharmaceutical industry it struck me that a business model could be done more efficiently. it was the best option because that was the way we were going to be able to provide the customer service and the education that that was needed. >> he knew he didn't want to sell epionce over the counter which is why it sells in the offices of plastic surgeons dermatologists and aestheticians who know the skin best. >> really education of the

physicians and of the skin care professionals to create it. >> denise and 15 other sales reps are working the front lines. >> i don't think there would be any other way for professionals to be detailed on these products other than having a rep walk in and give them the information. >> epionce's sales director molly johnson agrees. >> talking to doctors and aestheticians and nurses. they are doing trainings with our existing accounts. see if they have a new staff or just want a refresher on the products and out talking to doctors that don't currently carry our product showing them the studies we have the science behind it. >> the trainings are designed to help office staff sell epionce products even though they might not have a sales background. >> sales is not natural to them. you have to overcome rather than them feeling like they're doing

a hard sell on patients it's education, helping them with their skin. >> of course, this model would not work without the right people and finding them is hard. molly looks for driven individual was are also a right fillet for the region. >> someone in the northeast has a very different personality than the south or the west coast even. >> epionce doesn't base reps in most major cities. smaller markets are preferred. >> we don't have a rep in los angeles, in new york city in chicago. we do very well in the smaller cities to begin with and then as our presence builds then suddenly people in the big cities take notice. >> while it wasn't always easy to keep sales reps the team has doubled in size over the past year or so. small businesses like epionce have more opportunities to offer. >> a lot of big companies, you're just a number and they just want to know your sales, what their sales were ant don't care about everyone else. >> the sales strategy hasn't always been perfect. dr. carl admits initially he was

selling to the wrong crowd. >> we actually started in another channel initially with pharmacists but found that that really wasn't meeting the needs of what we wanted to as far as growth and reaching patients. >> to this day competing against companies with lots of money is tough which makes the existence of a sales team vital. >> i thought the weight of the science would be sufficient but it's not. the reality is market forces are huge. i underestimated that. that did stunt our growth for a number of years. >> epionce's sales numbers are on the rise and dr. carl knows he has the right sales model and team in place to take the brand forward. >> we have been able to grow and remain a profitable yet still sticking within the model. you need to know what the end game s once you have that then you can put together the pathways of how to achieve that. >> as we saw epionce uses a team of salespeople to get to the doctors but once a salesperson

gets the meeting what makes the difference between success an failure? we decided to dive into the art of the sale and went into the trenches to follow three consummate salespeople who live and die by their ability to close a deal. a car salesman real estate agent and woman who sells mary kay and broke down their techniques so you could learn from their experiences. ♪ >> a test drive is very important. it's that time where the customer can bond with the car. if you don't test drive a customer you're selling yourself short. and the customer short. >> meet terry miller. >> my name is terry. >> hi. >> he's the top salesman at the largest ford dealership in the world. and banina givens. >> hi j.b. how are you doing? >> she's one of market's highest earning sales reps for mary kay

cosmetics. >> the house is priced here at 329. >> and brett barry. >> square feet. >> a top selling real estate agent in one of the most competitive markets. >> how does the face feel? >> good. >> we followed these three a-list salespeople and their actual customers. >> live out here locally? >> for a full day to see what makes them successful. >> are you replaces this? >> with everyone's permission we showed the tapes to professor robert chaldeny. he studies the art of selling and what makes them so persuasive. >> what i noticed about all three of the people that we dealt with they were people persons. they liked interacting with people. >> which is yours. >> as a salesperson i'm naturally curious about what is

going on inside of the head of my clients. >> i usually will smile at them and usually if they smile back i take that as an invitation to speak to them. >> the customer will tell you, what to sell them and how to sell them. >> one of the keys to her people person skills is something manina givens calls mirroring. >> mirroring is when you are wearing the way that someone is responding to you. if they're like oh i'm so excited, i'm like great, i'm excited about showing them to you. if they are more like you know i've never tried mary kay before. i'm like really you haven't. so i mirror the way they are because that helps them to relate to. >> you he noticed that all three asked their customers many personal questions. a key tool he says to accomplishing two purposes. >> in the bargain of asking those questions, not only does he get information that he can

use later on but he is perceived as somebody who is genuinely interested in me. >> you normally travel by yourself. >> yes and my daughter. i have a 9-year-old daughter still at home. >> he's found out, for example, this particular customer has a 9-year-old daughter. you'll see later on he's going to raise that point. >> you know your daughter probably has friends you might want to put in the backseat and they want to sit comfortably. >> as he says regardless of whether a customer is buying something big and expensive like a new car or a home or something small and personalal like skin cream, they're more likely to lay out the cash if they trust you. so many people are wary of salespeople. how can you establish honesty. >> very interesting question. because of the fact that so often we've been tricked here's one of the things that i've learned that the best salespeople do. they mention a weakness or a drawback early in their case.

>> when brett was taking someone through the houses he was really honest about the flaws in the house. let's watch this for a second. >> his carpet is getting a little wild though. coming up here it's limping. >> is that smart to do. >> that is smart. now, what i noticed about this is that it was not the very first thing he said in trying to sell the house but it made him seem honest so when he did talk about the quality of the neighborhood and that it was a good price, the buyer believed him now in a way he wouldn't have believed him before. >> so i think for the price so far that one -- how many stars would we give the oasis house? >> five stars. >> all right. let's go. >> i really do like that house. >> i know you do. >> through years of experience our three salespeople have developed their own techniques. but chaldeny warns they'll only

be successful if they're genuine. >> if they're used as tricks people don't come back to those who tricked them. they just don't. ♪ >> it can without question be a hard transition for companies that are going from either having no salespeople or just one person to hiring a whole team. you have to consider a whole bunch of things process, culture, finances. our guest says if you get it right you can add a lot more revenue to your company if you get it wrong you have a lot to lose. tom cersei is founder of hunt big sales and he is author of the new book "life after the death of sails." how to thrive in the new era of selling. he has tips to help us avoid any pitfalls. great to see you. >> great to see you. >> sales, some are natural born seaspeople. for others it's really hard. you have to work hard to hire

this team and hire the right people so let's talk about what you need to have in place before you start building up this team. process. >> well, if you move from a salesperson and entrepreneur sometimes is the salesperson, right? you got to build a process. first thing you have to build a process because when you're small and had a salesperson or just the entrepreneurs selling they were the process. there weren't any other steps. now building a sales force. you want to track what's working and learn from it. >> you want to track it in a way that if you think this is going to grow in a way that will grow so if you want to start tracking in xcel. that's fine. you might need to get salesforce.com and think of that early on. >> exactly right. get the data right because you want to make certain how do you get better at the game of selling? second thing is -- go ahead. i'm sorry. >> i wanted to move on to talk about how you hire. >> well you know you need to make certain you hire a track record.

the tensenesseesedencytendency that person is unique. figure out what the track record of the salesperson who's coming in to interview. do they do things in a way in their process and in their background that makes sense to you rather than just trying to get someone who looks like or feels like someone you think might be successful. >> i think also in those early stages, right, if you're going from you, the entrepreneur to hiring someone, are they adding something, presumably they're coming from another organization that has some good processes and teach you something. >> right. you have to respect where they came from and it has to feel like the culture of your company because you're ramping up building a sales force and there's going to be little bit of pieces and parts that maybe you can add on and make your company better. >> right. okay. now also going from one to many is it first you're the one, the entrepreneur you're selling to everyone, as you hire people should you hire in segments? okay so i'm hiring my first

person. but after "a," i'm going after b, c and d. next person comes on you're going after b. >> segment the markets out. avoid the family fistfights that happen when we're looking at the marketplace. when the way you're used to doing it we hunt and get whatever it is we land right but now i may have two, three, four salespeople. you don't want to spend every week trying to pick apart who should have gotten credit for this or that piece. segment your markets and get that defined up front. >> say the last tip you have here manage closely. sales in some ways is easy because if you have targets, you know this person reached that target or didn't. but that's only one thing to look at. you still need to make sure all your processes are smooth and you're getting the best you can. >> that's right. if you built the process up front that we talked about, now you have to manage closely. you want to make certain you're looking at this kind of like operation, right? step by step and you look for efficiency and look for quality.

those kinds of things that make your business effective. you want to look and apply those to your sales organization. when you only had one sales rep and you were the sales rep you had a close understanding of how that worked and what was good. you put five salespeople in there and pretty soon it can feel like it's out of control unless you manage that closely. >> tom, i know this is an incredibly hard department for people to build out so we appreciate your advice. having done this a few times yourself. thanks so much. >> thank you. we have all been there before. you find yourself staring at a long list of sales prospects who in spite of all those calls and e-mails continue to elude you. here now are five ways you and your sales team can revive leads that have gone cold courtesy of ink.com. keep it simple. the average attention span is eight seconds and ideas are expressed in 140 characters so don't get bogged down in features and details.

two, don't ask for money yet. getting feedback is a much more productive use of your time than talking dollars at least initially. that can turn your potential customer off. three, think ahead. offer solutions for your prospect's future needs. four, mix it up. experiment with different cadences for phone calls an try sending e-mails at different times to see which get the best response rate. and, five clean up your dirty data. information on potential leads should be cleaned, validated and organized every 30 to 60 days. nothing is worse than contacting the wrong person or fumbling on the phone when reviving a cold lead. coming up more helpful advice on improving sales including top trades to look for when hiring an account executive and whether to outsource your sales team. and some big names with advice for small business owners on making the sale by focusing on the customer.

american express for travel and entertainment worldwide. just show them this - the american express card. don't leave home without it! and someday, i may even use it on the moon. it's a marvelous thing! oh! haha! so you can replace plane tickets, traveler's cheques, a lost card. really? that worked? american express' timeless safety and security are now available on apple pay. the next evolution of membership is here. this week's yourbizselfies from can't ler north carolina. smiling hara tempeh.

it's a vegan natural food product. now we like to see your smiling face too. send us a selfie to "your business" at msnbc.com or you can tweet it to @msnbcyourbiz. do not forget to use the hash #yourbizselfie. winning sales formulas. so for our show we chose a couple of selling advice we got from a few household names. >> the customer has veto power. the customer decides how to spend their money so if you don't give them what they want somebody else will. there's always going to be a higher price, always going to be a lower price. pricing only makes sense in the connotation of what did you give that consumer in return for what they paid you? they'll decide whether it's a

good deal or not. if all you have is low price, regardless of product or service and that's all you have that's very easy to sell easy to sell against. but, if you believe you're the top of the ladder on price value, then you have no competition. you win that game. >> i have always said ever since i started working that i am my customer. i want to appeal to me. what's missing in my life? what void can i fill that will fill the voids for everybody that's like me? because i always want to please me with what we do do i want to buy it? do i need it? so it's the need and the want. >> what we have got want to do is when a customer comes to the store we want to help them live a more comfortable luxurious and

wonderful life. we don't want to sell somebody sls they can't afford. we don't want to sell somebody something they don't need. if we can learn and think about what they need to make things better for them we're going be good customers. your success is our success. if we have a customer that successful shops at our store, it's our success. they will be back for more. >> we sell the same products that everybody else does so we have to come up with wonderful innovative products that people get emotional about. we want to delight you for so much that for the first few weeks you do a little dance. the real test is can you make somebody do the customer dance about something like a trash can? >> always order 10% more than you think you will need if you can afford it. you will eventually tell that

anyway. at least you will have a little cushion. >> whatever it is that you sell is where you sell it. location location location. and you have got have the right thing and at the right time. >> retail is detail. 90% of secrets in retail are at the front door. if you walk in the front door you see what's going on. that's the presentation. >> most businesses don't look as their customers they look at their customers. >> give the customers what they want. put them into a store and put the products they want and the prices they want and you will be successful. >> it's time now to answer some of your business questions. david scott is a sales and marketing strategist. his newest book is called the

new rules of snails and service. how to sell realtime customer engagement. sch we have v the ceo of the gold group. he right now owns and runs five businesses in chicago. you're busy jay. >> yes, i am. >> great to see both of you guys. let's get over to the first question. all of the questions are about sales. >> the thing i always think about is how the buying cycle has completely changed. now buyers are in charge because of the web. i like to look for brains rathder than the aggressiveness.

it's a really important trait. what's their social media savviness? are they good? are they engaged? and how big is their following? do they have a lot of followers? >> do you need to get someone? do you need to get someone with lots of contacts in your world? if you can't find that what do yo do then? >> this is the one part that's still very difficult and i will tell you that depends on what you're looking for. servicing existing accounts? giving leads to? the first question is what is their history?

have they been successful finding business? and why the interest in your business? that's not a good sign. and there are people who are great sales people maybe selling payroll service or insurance. >> let's move on to the next question. >> i would be interesting to hear from the group had experience. >> i tried that once. if you're looking to outsource it's probably because it's very painful. i have learned that the thing that we struggle with the most are the things that help our business if we figure them out. i would question whether outsourcing is the right i don't

know i'm sure it works in some instances but i have to believe in the long run most businesses are better off working inside their own company. >> but there are times you can bring somebody out. >> with either of the two models you have to dig in. you have to manage them and pay attention to them. so one model is a distribution model. where it's a company that handles other lines of business. you might have somebody that is dedicated to you. they just happen to be employed. >> okay.

let's move on to the last question. this is an e-mail that came from david. what are effective ways that can turn internet practices into sales? >> the number one thing that is as both someone who runs an internet site, things online and as a consumer. i am on websites that it gets to be such a hassle where it's just a hassle. >> give them what they want. and the biggest mistake that i see, which is why there are so many people who do abandon is because so many sites and customers focus on their own products and services and they're really egotistical about that. what are their problems and how can i reach them and educate

them about something of value. >> you get sent to a site. versus going right to the landing page of what you were looking for. >> we will give you free advice. the address is yourbusiness@msnbc.com. >> thank you everyone for joining us today. if you missed anything on the show head on over to our website. you will find all of today's segments. next week we meet a business owner who offers a service that no one else wants to do cleem

cleaning up crime scenes and meth labs. >> this is not your typical service. obviously that's not going to apply. you have to be very strategic about how you advertise. >> we will find out how this entrepreneur is marketing this business so successfully she is franchising nation-wide. remember we make your business our business. american express for travel and entertainment worldwide. just show them this - the american express card. don't leave home without it! and someday, i may even use it on the moon. it's a marvelous thing! oh! haha! so you can replace plane tickets, traveler's cheques, a lost card. really? that worked?

american express' timeless safety and security are now available on apple pay. the next evolution of membership is here. even more tragedy for the biden family. good morning. thanks for getting up with us today. a sad sunday morning in the world of politics with the nation waking up to the news that vice president joe biden's son, former attorney general of delaware, a rising political star in his own right has passed away at the age of 46 from brain cancer. much more on that in just a moment. also new at this hour john kerry has been