r our largest absorbent area ever they lock away wetness better than huggies, even overnight live, learn and get luvs this sunday, our 2016 campaign special. the threat to hillary. is it time to take this man more seriously? >> we are going to build a movement of millions of americans. >> why bernie sanders may be a much bigger threat than anyone imagines. he joins me exclusively. >> i'll be joined by john kasich and rick santorum. >> i'm running for president of the united states. plus the story that stunned official washington. those bombshell charges against the former speaker of the house dennis hastert. >> patriot games. the big fight in washington this sunday over your personal information.

i'm chuck todd. joining me for inside analysis on this busy sunday morning are msnbc's chris matthews. former white house political director under president george w. bush sara fagen. the cook political reports amy walter and politico ranu roger. it's sunday, it's "meet the press." good morning. we start with sad news from overnight. beau biden has succumbed to brain cancer at the age of 46. he was first diagnosed with the illness in august 2013. he received treatment. that was initially successful. the cancer recurred and this month he was admitted to a hospital right here near washington. many viewers will remember this photo from 1973. it shows a bed-ridden beau watching his dad being sworn in from his hospital bed after a tragic car crash that killed his

1-year-old sister amy and his mother mila. here is beau remembering that event before introducing his father at the 2008 democratic convention. >> one of my earliest memories was being in that hospital, my dad always at our side. we, my brother and i, not the senate, were all he cared about. >> saturday night vice president biden paid tribute to his son. in the words of the biden family, beau biden was quite simply the finest man any of us have ever known. he is survived by his wife halle and two children natalie and hunter. ages 9 and 11. the heart just aches for the entire biden family this morning. overseas, there was a scare for secretary of state john kerry after he was involved in a bicycling accident in the french alps near the swiss border. he had to be airlifted to a hospital in geneva where doctors found he had broken his leg, his

thigh bone. he'll return to boston later today for further treatment. this comes at a hugely sensitive time for secretary kerry. he was there in europe making a final push to secure a nuclear deal with iran ahead of the deadline at the end of june. he just met with the iranian foreign minister. we move to the story that stunned official washington. the indictment of former house speaker dennis hastert over allegations he paid millions of dollars to cover-up sexual misconduct when he was a male student when he was a high school teacher in illinois. pete, lay out what we know now. >> this is not where the government is still investigating. they've done their investigating, they made their case. number one, the government doesn't claim that mr. hastert's payment of this money was illegal. he is not charged with whatever happened 30 years ago. that is not anything the federal

government could bring a charge on. two, it's well beyond the statute of limitations of the state. what the federal government says once the bank said what are you doing with all this money, he started reducing the payments to come under the reporting threshold helping the banks evade credit reporting requirements. when the fbi came knocking on his door he said he wasn't paying the money to anybody, keeping it for himself. that's what the federal crime is. the federal government says we are not charging individual a which we believe to be a former student with extortion. one is, you have to have a victim and mr. hastert never claimed he was extorted. secondly, the federal officials said they are satisfied this was a cooperative agreement they had that. there was an element of agreement, not just flat out shakedown. >> so why is this illegal? >> it is his own money but because of this technical violation of the credit reporting rules, and secondly the lie to the fbi.

remember, he is not charged with what he did 30 years ago to this victim. he's charged with something he did more recently. >> when will we see him in court? >> we don't know for sure. normally, you would have to be brought before a federal magistrate and have the right within 48 hours. that hasn't happened. obviously, there is a lot of agreement between his lawyers and prosecutor. >> pete williams, thanks very much. want to turn to tom davis, former congressman from virginia. republican. in some ways you were a key lieutenant back in the hastert tenure. i have to get your initial reaction. was there a whiff of this? dennis hastert became speaker of the house because of scandal that impacted gingrich, bob livingston, both in some ways associated with sex scandals. was there a whiff of this? >> not a whiff. behind closed doors, and a lot of things happen behind closed doors, denny hastert never got close to the line. he would bring the conversation back.

at least as he conducted himself in office he appeared to be a pillar of integrity. >> explain how shocked you are. >> you could have knocked me over with a feather. and other members who served on staff are shocked. no clue to this. >> i'm thinking about the impact this has on the image congress has which is poor with the public. kevin tibbles talked with folks. i wanted to play this one reaction from a yorkville resident at dennis hastert's hometown. this gets to the core. >> not surprised one bit. seems the norm now with politicians running wild with sex scandals money scandals, you know. just basic thievery overall. >> you and i had this conversation earlier. people tell me the whole place is full of crooks and creeps. i say, no no no it's a few

bad apples. dennis hastert. now it's hard to say that. >> everything i can tell, that's the way he conducted himself in office. this isn't going to help the reputation of congress or politicians, in general. certainly illinois had its problems. >> i know illinois had itself -- i guess the question is why are we seeing, it feels like we are seeing more of this? do you feel like there is something in the water? is it just something about the way congress makes people think they're indestructible to bad behavior. >> communication is ubiquitous today. very hard. 24/7 news cycles, people leaking, tweeting. there are very few secrets. people getting into politicians, you have to look at your life and say, what's going to come out at this point? everything is offlimits. in the old days, this is stuff nobody talked about. today it's news. >> let me go to the panel here.

chris matthews, sara, amy. chris, you've been around this town a long time. when you get to this town you wanted to hold members of congress up in high esteem. i can't make the case to say mama, i want your kids to grow up to be politicians. >> 9% approval rating. a big part if congress had gotten something done over the last 40, 50 years, since the civil rights act and voting rights act of '64 and '65, what have they really done? i think people are willing to forgive a little bit of misbehavior on this side -- though this goes beyond that. this is probably criminal at some point. they want you to do something. then they'll forgive. they may forgive babe ruth for drinking too much when he hits 60 homes runs. where are the 60 home runs? just like the assumption in the movies, it's been congressmen and people are all rich. they don't have problems. remember that group of 20 liberals, barbara boxer, leon panetta. they were all married people

with solid marriages. commuted across the country. they hugged together to keep everything together. they were all good people. so there's a lot of really good straight arrow members of congress who are loyal to their families and wives and husbands. it's a very clean operation. prudish operation, most of it. cases like this pop out. i go with the old rule, i think it's better than it looks. personally. >> i know it is, too. i understand why the public doesn't believe me. >> it creates a vicious cycle for the institution of congress which is more and more of these scandals come out. fewer and fewer really great quality candidates want to run for office. that's what we are seeing, i think, in public office today. being a member of congress is no longer honorable in most parts of the country, which is sad. >> it is. that will have a recurring cycle. amy, i want to get to one thing about this hastert thing. how did he become so wealthy? how is a guy who had a net worth less than $500,000 in congress

end up with $12 million. how did he get so much money that he could pay out millions of dollars. >> it exposes the revolving door. denny hastert went downtown and became a speaker and cashed. he quietly made tons of money, which became central to this case. members use their influence in congress to cash in. >> can i make one other point? to move it away from politicians for one second. the sadder part of this story, we spend time talking about how bad congress is and bad the bill cosby case was. we talk about the men we don't talk about the victim. that's where we have to spend a little more time and a little less time about them. >> this victim tried very hard, sounds like doesn't want to be -- if you want to be out there, you would have been out there. this person clearly doesn't want to be out there. >> we don't know the whole story, but we do, i think we

love to focus on how bad congress is, how bad this person is, we just spent more time talking about the people are affected. >> obviously, that's the primary victim here. a lot of the victims are good congress people who lead good lives. >> absolutely right. >> they're victims, too. our 2016 campaign special. in this corner, bernie sanders for the democrats. in that corner rick santorum and john kasich for a crowded field of republicans. this is unlike any we've seen. where do you get this kind of confidence? at your ford dealer... that's where! our expert trained technicians... state of the art technology and warranty parts keep your vehicle running right. it's no wonder we sold more than 3.5 million tires last year and durning the big tire event get a $120 mail in rebate on 4 select tires. ♪

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our viewers lead busy lives, even on sundays. sometimes you can't be in front of the tv to see "meet the press" live. if you are at church, having brunch or sleeping late, we are always available on demand or record this on your dvr. make us a season pass. if it's not sunday, it's still "meet the press." when we come back, bernie sanders. why he's probably a bigger threat to hillary clinton than you might think.

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we are back. if you believe some people, the race for the democratic nomination over. hillary clinton has it won. as our colleague tom brokaw likes to say, there is the theory of ufos, unforeseen occurrences. yesterday martin o'malley announced his candidacy. before him bernie sanders of vermont. he just might be the kind of ufo we've seen in the past. >> we are going to build a movement of millions of americans. >> could a rumpled 73-year-old self-described socialist become hillary clinton's most dangerous political opponent? he may not be a package candidate, but he has a powerful weapon. he can puncture clinton's aura of inevitability by beating expectations.

>> i don't look upon this campaign one which you are trying to pick up delegates. >> eugene mccarthy mobilized a volunteer army of students who flooded into new hampshire, shaving their beards, to get clean for gene. mccarthy surprised second place finish with 42% of the votes was a stunning repudiation of president lyndon johnson and his vietnam policy. >> it changes the political picture in america for 1968. >> mccarthy's upset drew then senator bobby kennedy into the democratic race. it pushed johnson out. in 1984, it was little-known senator gary hart who beat expectations and finished second in iowa to then go on to new hampshire and stun walter mondale, beating him by ten points. >> boy, did new hampshire come up with a surprising finish tonight. >> hart's candidacy collapsed, but his victory exposed weakness in mondale. in november, ronald reagan carried 49 of 50 states. in 2012 mitt romney beat rick

santorum, but never recovered from santorum's bruising. a populist insurgent is poised to become the latest protest vehicle, pushing hillary clinton to the left, and potentially exposing vulnerability that could help republicans in the fall. and the democratic presidential candidate senator bernie sanders joins me now. welcome back to "meet the press." let me start with an issue you are going to be dealing with in a few hours. i know you'll be flying back from minneapolis to washington for this special senate session, nsa, patriot act, session 215. i assume you are a supporter of the usa freedom act. is that where you are going to be voting? >> i may well be voting for it. it doesn't go as far as i want it to go. i voted against the original patriot act and the reauthorization of the patriot act. we have to be vigorous protecting the american people but we have to protect the constitutional rights of the

american people. i'm very, very worried about the invasion of privacy rights that we are seeing, not only from the nsa and government, but from corporate america, as well. we are losing our privacy rights. it's a huge issue. >> the government is going to be asking corporate america to keep this data under the usa freedom act. are you comfortable with that? >> no, i'm not. we have to look at the best of bad situations. the question is whether the nsa keeps it. the question is whether it's transferred to the phone companies who keep records for an extended period of time. >> you served under two democratic presidents, bill clinton and barack obama. which one has been a better progressive champion, in your view? >> well neither one of them have gone as far as i would have liked them to go. that's one of the reasons why we are seeing the disappearance of the middle class in this country, and a huge increase in income and wealth inequality. that is why we are not dealing with the fact we have 45 million

people living in poverty and why we are still the only major country on earth that doesn't guarantee health care to all people. i have a lot of respect for president obama. i consider him a friend. i disagree with him on issues like the tpp or the extension of tax breaks that bush initiated. i think history will judge president obama a lot better than many other contemporaries, given the fact he came into office at a time when this country was in terrible shape. >> you singled out president obama for praise but not president clinton. why? >> i think bill clinton did a very good job. i disagree with him strongly on nafta, permanent normal trade relations with china. i'm a strong opponent of these disastrous trade agreements which cost us millions of decent paying jobs. i also very strongly disagreed

with deregulation on wall street. i opposed that. i think the results prove when you allow the greedregular less -- recklessness of wall street to go unchecked, you are going to end up where we are today and eight years ago. >> when you watch your chief primary opponent right now, secretary hillary clinton on some key issues, she has changed her position to a more progressive view. on same-sex marriage, immigration, this is over the last ten years. nafta, on trade, on the iraq war, on cuba. she has moved from a position basically in disagreement with you to a position that comes closer to your view. my guess is, do you take her at her word and do you think rhetorically that's enough? >> i have known hillary clinton for 25 years. i have enormous respect for her and i like her. what i hope is that the media will allow us to have a serious debate in this campaign on the enormous issues facing the

american people, which is why for the last 40 years our middle class has been disappearing. why 99% of all new income generated today is going to the top 1% and why we have this grotesque level of income inequality. people say you've been saying the same thing 30 years. it's kind of true. maybe it's bad. i think we need a political revolution in this country. i think we need to take on the greed of the billionaire class, on disastrous campaign finances. >> do you trust these changes hillary clinton has made or do you think she is doing it for primary politics? >> i think that's for the american people to decide. i know where i have been on trade agreements. i know where i've been on wall street. i know where i've been on the keystone pipeline. and secretary clinton will obviously explain her position to the american people. >> this week you found out what it's like to become a nationally

recognized candidate for president, and potentially a threat to somebody. the leaking of an essay you wrote in the '70s for an alternative weekly. your campaign described it as satire. it's uncomfortable to read. you wrote this in february '72. a fantasy of men and women. a woman enjoys intercourse with her man as she fantasizes being raped by three men simultaneously. your campaign described this as satire. can you explain this essay? >> sure. look. this is a piece of fiction i wrote in 1972, i think. that was 43 years ago. it was very poorly written. if you read it, what it was dealing with gender stereotypes. why some men like to oppress women, why other women like to be submissive. something like "fifty shades of gray." very poorly written 40 years

ago. what i'm focusing on right now are the issues impacting the american people today. that's what i'll continue to focus on. and what the american people want to hear. on border issues, when we talk about issues, we need more debates in this campaign. i hope very much that we can begin with a democratic candidates as early as july, and have some republicans in those debates, as well. >> there you go. senator sanders calling for july debates. we are ready to host them here on "meet the press." stay safe on the trail and see you back in washington. >> thank you. stick around. candidates in that crowded republican field. former senator rick santorum of pennsylvania and governor john kasich of ohio. santorum of pennsylvania and governor john kasich of ohio. ♪ if you're looking for a car that

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we are back with the race for the white house. how crowded is the republican field? this week george pataki and senator rick santorum. this week we expect rick perry and lindsey graham. add to that the six who officially announced. you can see the crowd is building here. wait. there's more. there are six others out there who are either sure to run or thinking of running or who perhaps are toying with the press. by the way we have new numbers on the race from the latest des moines register bloomberg poll of iowa caucus voters in iowa. scott walker tops the field with 17%. rand paul, ben carson, jeb bush and mike huckabee below that. followed by marco rubio and rick santorum. the rest of the field trails further behind. ted cruz the leading the second

tier at 5%. in a moment i'll talk to john kasich who is down 2%. first up is former senator rick santorum of pennsylvania. the last man standing against mitt romney in 2012. welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you, chuck. >> i've got to start with you're at 6% in a poll of iowa caucus goers in a state you won four years ago. how do you not look at that and say, i probably have 100% name idea with likely iowa caucus goers and i'm in single digits. are you concerned you don't have the same support or strength of support you did four years ago? >> well, all i can say is we have a tremendous group of volunteers there. we signed up 100 volunteers just this week. which brings our total to well over 500 across the state. i didn't announce until after that poll. we've been not in front of the tv a long time, three years,

where i was off providing for my family, making money to send kids to college. we'll wait and see how the polls look as the months go on. >> want to go to foreign policy. you very much want to see no changes to the patriot act at all. if you see the changes that are made with the usa freedom act that is likely to be the law of the land where tech companies hold the data, do you think that will make us less safe? >> look, i think the patriot act worked very well. i'm not aware of any abuses of the patriot act that caused undue fear about invasion of privacy. at this point, it's likely that what the house passed is the only version is viability. i would vote for it. as president, i would sign it. i'm encouraging everyone to let that bill become law and we could move forward from there and judge whether that provides

us sufficient security going forward. >> i want to get to a few other issues here. it's short, but we'll have you back a lot. it's necessary with so many candidates in this race. mike huckabee said that the supreme court can't overrule the other two branches of government. he suggested if the court rules that the 14th amendment requires states to recognize same-sex marriage, the states should act to disregard the ruling. as you know, this ruling is going to come down in perhaps three, four weeks. could happen as early as next week. do you agree with mike huckabee on that one? >> well, i think the supreme court has an equal branch of government ability to overrule congress and the president. they do it all the time. i feel it's the role of congress and president to push back. i think it's important that they are understood to be equal branches of government. i've done it before. we had a situation when i was in the senate where the supreme court ruled a bill unconstitutional. we went back and passed another bill almost identical, made the

case the court got it wrong and passed it. the court reversed its opinion. i think it's important to understand the supreme court doesn't have the final word. it has its word. its word has validity. it's important for congress and the president to push back when the supreme court gets it wrong. >> will you accept the supreme court ruling if they legalize same-sex marriage for the entire country, do you accept that ruling or do you fight it? >> well, of course i'd fight it. roe versus wade was decided 30 some years ago and i continue to fight that. i think the court got it wrong. if the court decides this case in error, i will continue to fight as we have on the issue of life. that's the role of a citizenry. we are not bound by what nine people say in perpetuity. we have an obligation and right in a free society to push back and get our congress and president, and rally the american public, to overturn what the court wants to do. >> you're not advocating having states ignore the law, ignore

the ruling? >> i don't advocate civil disobedience. i advocate the role of an informed citizen and turn to overturn when a court makes a mistake and gets an issue wrong. >> you're known as an economist more than any other in the field. if a candidate supports raising taxes on the country. do you worry you're out of step with the republican primary voters even if you are in step with general election voters? >> i worry about what is doing best for americans. american workers have been left behind by both political parties. particularly by this administration. the wealth gap, as bernie sanders says, has risen. it's not like we've been passing conservative policies in the last six years. bottom line is that these liberal policies end up helping those who have resources. if you are an investor, you've done very well under president obama.

if you are a worker, you've seen wages flat line. what does this president want to do? they want to bring in more people who are primarily unskilled and have them compete so we can keep those wages down. for one reason. the democrats believe it's politically good for them and they can win more elections. that's not in the -- >> wait a minute. you think the democrats are for more immigration simply for politics? for votes? they are looking for votes? >> if you look at the history of the democratic party, they have not been the party of pro immigration. go back to the latest immigration report. barbara jordan, not a rock group conservative, said that our immigration policy should be in the national interest and we should have controls on immigration. we should look at the interest of american workers. for decades, democrats looked at the interest of the american workers until it became important for them to be on the other side because of the

politics of it. no one is standing for american workers, unfortunately, in either party. hillary clinton wants more votes. i want to make sure that the american worker has an opportunity to see wages rise and incomes increase. >> rick santorum, i'm going to leave it there. busy time of the campaign trail. expect to check in with you again. stay safe on the trail. >> thank you. we'll be back in a moment with another republican hopeful or potential hopeful, john kasich. later that, big debate over your privacy. ce policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. ♪ those who have served our nation have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. now there's a razor that swirls and swerves... ... as every blade adjusts to your curves. new venus swirl.

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welcome back.

staying with the battle for the republican presidential nomination. joined by john kasich, who is expected to enter the presidential race later this summer. welcome back to "meet the press." >> i'm not former, i'm still governor. before you get into the questions, we were talking earlier in the show about the quality of people in public life. let me say i don't always agree with him, but joe biden is a special guy. you think about this. he lost a wife, a daughter, and now a son. he continues to serve. we start thinking about the quality of people, joe biden, whether you agree with him or not, he's a real guy, a real stand-up guy. i'm going to pray for him because he's had a lifetime of tears. god bless you, joe. >> couldn't say it better myself, governor kasich. i appreciate you starting off that way. let me ask you where you are in

this time table. you've been here before. you said you were exploring. sounds like you want to announce at end of the month. why wouldn't you announce at this point? why wouldn't you run? >> if i think i can't win, chuck, i wouldn't do it. i don't want to burden my family and my friends. we have internal metrics both on organization, and i'm pleased former senator john sununu agreed to help. it's recourses, too. i raise money the old fashioned way. i go out and tell people what i think. i say if you hire me, i'm a ceo and i'll listen to you. at the end of the day, i'm going to make this decision. something i've done throughout my whole career. with great success. i'm optimistic where we are. i'm optimistic on the resources. i'm becoming more optimistic on the organization. i don't need to do this to have a good life, but i think i can help serve my country. i've got the most unique resume and a terrific record.

i have a great team of people around me. we'll see. i love my country. if i can really step up and help it, i intend to do it. >> a lot of people put you in the same, if you divide up these candidates, there are so many of you that may be in the race, in different heats. many put you in the jeb bush heat. you said something interesting to an interviewer earlier this week. i don't know anything about jeb bush's theme. i never listened to him. what's right to rise getting up in the morning? that was snarky. i take it you believe jeb bush has done nothing to convince you he is a better candidate than you would be? >> i like jeb. might have been one of those days where i wanted to say something that was, you know, kind of funny. maybe you didn't take it that way. here's the situation. i was the chairman of the budget committee when we balanced the budget in washington. that was the first time since man walked on the moon. i did it with the clinton administration and we got it

done. i was also on the armed services committee and involved in military reform, including the most significant reform of the military that many say in 50 years with the goldwater nichols bill. get the services to work together. i went into the private sector and i was governor of ohio. we've gone from a state that was dead to a state optimistic and growing. we just announced on friday amazon locating a big facility here in the midwest. we are growing jobs. we've cut the most amount of taxes. with that resume, national security, success in washington and success as an executive, i think it's the best resume and a terrific record. >> let me ask you something that happened this week in other midwestern states. the state of nebraska decided to stop the death penalty all together. there's different reasons why they did it. you have had a temporary moratorium in ohio. want to read you something that a former predecessor of yours wrote, bob taft wrote this

december last year. "the death penalty is very costly to administer, lengthy trial be appellate procedures put a burden on county and state governments. pay for lawyers, judges and jails. it may be time to ask the question whether death penalty in ohio is a dead man walking." do you agree with his assess mment assessment, that the death penalty is done in ohio? >> no. i don't agree with that. we are just looking for the drug we need to administer it. in this debate we forget the victims. i review all these cases. some people i said we will let them stay for a life in prison if i wasn't certain of who did what, but i've had these grieving families come to see me, chuck. people who had their mothers, who have been gunned down. look, it's about justice. it isn't about revenge, it's about justice. i support the death penalty and will continue to do that because a lot of times families want closure when they see justice done. we are in a tricky situation here because of a lack of drugs,

but no. i think you administer it sparingly. frankly, at the end of the day when it comes to me, everybody's had a look at these cases and i get the final say. i try to remember -- i don't try to, i remember the victims when i consider this. >> i know you are deeply religious man. your catholic faith. do you struggle with where you are on this and where the church is? >> no, i don't. i said it as clearly as i can. i think it is about justice. i think it's consistent with my faith. at the end of the day, i'm the secular official, right? i'm also the governor. it doesn't mean my faith doesn't influence me. i have a job as administrator of the state of ohio. >> governor john kasich, i will leave it there. when you are an official candidate, come back and we'll go through all these issues. debt, all sorts of things. >> can't wait. >> thank you, sir. stay safe when you travel. let's discuss the 2016 race,

guys. sara, what did you hear? >> i heard three candidates of what appear to be at least 20 that are going to run. so you are going to have a busy few weeks ahead of you. to me, the most interesting thing that i hear from bernie sanders is that he's going to be able to really challenge her on the left. he is going to make this race very difficult for hillary clinton. the challenge hillary clinton has is the republican field is so strong and she needs a general election to get here. she is running against herself right now and losing. bernie sanders will make that harder. i wonder santorum pulled romney to the right during the primaries and made it harder for him to pivot to the center. does bernie sanders pull her too far to the left and make it harder to pivot back? >> that is a problem. she has to be herself. this positioning is why people hate politicians. if hillary clinton is a lefty, i

didn't know. she is a centrist politician. a democratic mainstream democrat. one in three democrats identify as liberal, much less progressive. i would say go with the general election. first of all, i'm not her strategist. if i were, i would say go for the big win. win with 54%, 55%. you have a shot bringing the house in. amy knows more than i know. >> impossible. >> possibly bring in the house if she walks into a senate that is still republican and the house that is heavily republican, she will get nothing done. you've got to win and rule. she can win with a center left strategy. >> i thought it was interesting john kasich, first thing he says about his candidacy, he brings up people that signed up with him in new hampshire. >> wasn't that interesting. >> good place for him. a lot of individual voters. kasich on the wrong side of primary voters on common core, maybe in the medicaid thing. problem-solving conservative to independent voters in new hampshire might be interesting.

>> this is the interesting thing to me about john kasich. he is running as a great general election candidate. you have to win a primary. i don't hear his success pulling in conservative voters in a primary. scott walker is his biggest opponent. if you are a conservative republican, you see in scott walker everything that you want to see, especially on conservative issues like labor, on the medicaid expansion. he is a midwestern governor, too. he is a blue state governor. >> the other thing about the iowa poll that was interesting to me is scott walker at 17% today in a strong position. when you look at the field it's hard to imagine that anyone is going to get higher than 17% until right before the caucuses. he is in the worst position because he is leading. leading significantly. >> he doesn't have 100% name i.d. that's the part of this striking to me about a huckabee/santorum. and jeb who trail in iowa.

>> i think the other question is, where is the money going to come from for these guys? will rick santorum get a white whale to help grow this campaign like did he last time? can they win the money race? that's one reason jeb, too, hasn't declared at this point. >> i'll do a quick subject change. turn to this heated debate over privacy. midnight parts of the patriot act are likely to extend. -- end unless the senate figures out a way to extend them or modify them before midnight. the issue of the ability of the national security agency to tell telecom companies to giving over the phone records of millions of americans. let's say the government suspects jane doe being involved in terrorism. jane calls 10 people. the nsa using the vast amounts of data they already collected contract the numbers of whom she called, when those called happened and how long the calls lasted. then if the nsa can prove a link to terror, it can access phone

calls some of those 10 numbers made. all of a sudden, you can have information for dozens of people, even though you were only targeting one person. in theory, with all that data, the government could connect the dots and quickly trace jane doe's terrorism network. the problem? the government winds up scooping up lots of information about people who have nothing to do with terrorism or jane doe. talk more about this, i'm bringing in annula o'connor, an expert from the center for technology and security. i hope i have this right. >> drokemocracy and technology. >> what else expires tonight besides the ability of the government. >> it's limited provisions of the patriot act. we are not calling for the end to nsa's involvement in our lives entirely. we want to see a really limited government that really only knows about people under

suspicion. what happens right now under 215, all of the telephone calls, all of what's called the metadata, but it's your phone call records, who you called, when you called, how long you talked for. every call in and out of america. >> all available. >> not only available, goes to the nsa for their records. that's too much. >> the new law here, the u.s. freedom act, everybody assumes it will pass wednesday. it will now compel the telecom companies to hold this multiple senators do not think the telecom companies have to do this. if they don't, then where are we? >> we have lots of legal processes for companies to provide legitimate information to the government. >> banking institutions. the hastert scandal has to do with banks recording to the government about cash transactions. >> transactions over $10,000 might be suspicion. banks report that. the government decides whether there is a level of suspicion.

we have law enforcement subpoenas that follow legitimate paths in this country. we do not need wholesale mass surveillance on you and me and our grandparents and every telephone call we made. we are moving into a world where we use our smart phones for everything, our e-mail. >> what if the telecom companies say no? >> they are already providing or rather collecting information for their own records. we're not concerned. the attorney general and director of national intelligence already said we have enough data. my beloved old boss tom ridge says more data is not better data, it's just data. we need limited, legitimate law enforcement searches. >> appreciate your point of view on this and explaining this to americans to get a better understanding. appreciate it. we'll be back with endgame and discuss why the death penalty in the united states might find itself on political death row. penalty in the united states might find itself on political death row.

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welcome back. it is endgame time. we are going to discuss potentially the slow death of the death penalty wednesday. as i mentioned earlier to governor kasich, nebraska became the first red state in more than 40 years to get rid of it. it brings down the number of states with reduction in the use

of capital punishment, permanent or temporary moratoriums to 26. polls show a majority of americans, while they favor the death penalty, it's been slowly eroding in support, 55% down from around 80% in the mid '90s. we bring back the panel. amy, it is -- this started as a modern effort. george ryan in illinois. he was a republican governor there and might still be serving time or might not be. sorry. hard to know in illinois. he was a high-profile moratorium signer here. lawmakers are ahead of the public. public is still, when you ask them, they think they are pro death penalty, but when you add in life in prison versus the death penalty -- >> it becomes so much of what this is about for many law makers is about cost. how much it costs to administer this. that's what part of the case was

in nebraska. what is interesting about this issue you show the slow decline, there is one issue that has moved faster. when we compare this to the gay marriage issue. >> this is public ahead of politicians. >> politicians might be ahead of public in this case. >> fiscal and lethal. the issue of the drug. >> it's interesting, largely shows a divide within the republican party over the criminal justice issue. folks are pushing for more softer type of approach. then you have people that are still very for more aggressive, law and order approach that they advocated for in 1990s. something playing out in the campaign trail between rand paul and john kasich on this issue. >> like with the abortion debate. some has to do with science and technology and dna testing has advanced. several people have been on death row and found to be not guilty. when there is a shred of doubt in a case like this, it causes people to stop and think carefully about, is this the

right policy? >> this movement has been happening almost exclusively among democrats. republicans still -- >> i am shocked on the sort of sea change. bill clinton had to use the death penalty as a way in 1992 -- boy, three strikes and you're out. george pataki, he's only a three-term governor because of the death penalty. mario cuomo was against it. he used it as a wedge in new york state. >> this is one of the few areas i have no opinion. my opinion is so divided on this, i don't have one. the way kasich talked about it, showed why we want a governor to be president. you take adult responsibility in a life and death situation. it separates you from the bs artists on capitol hill. you decide whether someone lives or not. there was an honest way that may be seen as conservative or tough, but people -- you could hear that guy talking about decisions he's made. i still believe the republican party is dying for a midwest governor whether it's walker or

him, they want a grown-up. they have to carry ohio. >> they do. you are going to be working all day today on capitol hill, the senate. how did mitch mcconnell get himself in a position like this where he had no plan b or is he just convening the senate to give rand paul campaign a boost? >> it's surprised. mcconnell strategizes, he's always got a plan. this is unusual because he stuck his neck out on this issue. he sits back, lets the caucus debate it and decide which way to go. he really does not believe the house passed usa freedom act will be workable and came out strongly against it. the party is so divided on this right now. there is no way forward. it looks like mcconnell will have to do a back flip except -- accept the usa freedom act. the question for rand paul is whether he drags this out all week, which is very possible.

>> rand paul is against usa freedom too. that is what people may not be aware. this has been good politics for him. >> good politics with a small segment of the republican party and libertarian wing of the republican party. it's bad politics for the republican base overall. it's risky because god forbid something happens. he's done. it's all over for him. >> millenials. people who don't own a car, don't have a house, they are not married. they have this thing. >> all right. i want to pause because i want to pay tribute to a friend. i want to say a few words about bob shaeffer. today is his last day at face the nation. i want to thank bob being a great representative of what we aspire to do in journalism and here in washington. when i came to washington, the first i met was his daughter sharon.

the type of person she is tells you a lot about the type of person bob is. when you meet a shaeffer, you learn they are simply good people. one thing, bob, the one time i'm not going to miss you is as a competitor sunday mornings. when bob announced he was standing down, i promised to emulate him by wearing purple socks on his last sunday. well, bob, i'm a man of my word. i'm wearing these purple socks. they don't watch, but who cares? that's all for today. we'll be back in two weeks. enjoy the french open next sunday, but if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." french open next sunday, but if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

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