or the spike. but if what we're arguing is the reason why the spike has happened is two fold. number two, any people that are watching the police department can turn into a mob at any minute that doesn't make sense to me, and there's a policy way to get out of it. >> peter and vince, i warrant to keep talking about this this is going to continue to play out, thank you very much. had a is all in for this evening, the rachel maddow show starts now. >> thanks chris. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. governor rick perry is expected to announce tomorrow in dallas that he is going to mount another campaign to become the republican nominee for president of the united states. honestly, full disclosure when rick perry got in the presidential race in 2012 looking at him on paper, looking at his career looking at his reputation in texas and everything that had been written about him as a political figure i thought in 2012 that rick perry was going to be the guy to

beat for the nomination that year. he waited a long time to get in in 2012 as mitt romney drifted to the head of that weird pack of republican candidates that year. when rick perry jumped in the race, i thought he was just going to blow everyone away. i had no idea he was going to be such a terrible candidate. >> and i will tell you. it's three agencies of government when i get there that are gone commerce education and the -- what's the third one there? >> five. >> commerce education, and the -- >> epa? >> epa. there you go. >> seriously, is epa the one you were talking about? >> no, sir, we were talking about the agencies of government -- epa needs to be rebuilt. >> you can't name the third one. >> the third agency of government i would do away with

education education, commerce and let's see. i can't. the third one i can't. sorry. >> rick perry now says that he was unwell. that he was unhealthy when he ran for president in 2012 that's why he did so poor. he didn't take it seriously enough enough. >> he's not going to make nose mistakes again, he's done his homework memorized all three of the things he wants to say that come in three ss now he says he's ready to jump in and try again, that's what we are expecting him to say when he makes his big announcement tomorrow. there to rain on his parade will

be hillary rodham clinton. former first lady, secretary of state, she's scheduled her own texas campaign stop to cone side with rick perry's announcement tomorrow. texas is a red state. no democrat has won statewide elected office in more than 20 years. the last time was 1994. >> there had been this brief glimmer of expectations. when rick perry decided to not run for re-election. the very charismatic might have a shot at the governorship. she may become the new governor of texas. wendy davis in 2014 not only got beat she got beat by 20 points in the 2014 election ss. >> whatever texas is going to be some day it's really really

really red. president obama lost in texas to mitt romney by 16 points. hillary clinton is in texas today, she's going to be in texas tomorrow as well. she's not there for the purposes of the electoral college. she's not going there because anyone has expectations the democrats are going to win unless it's a huge blowout. the reason hillary clinton is in texas today and tomorrow is ca-ching. texas is a big state, has a big population, even though the state as a whole votes for candidates there aren't a lot of rich donor class democrats in texas who are happy to make their money count in national democratic campaigns even if their vote in texas doesn't care just yet.

texas is an atm machine for democrats all over the country. mostly hillary clinton will be going to texas to insert her atm card and withdraw campaign donations. that's mostly why she is there, and nobody would say otherwise. it's not only money that is sending her to texas, at the same time that rick perry will be making his presidential announcement tomorrow at the same time rick perry is breaking the glass saling for politician s running on indictment charges. no one has done that before. he'll be the first candidate to ever run for president of the united states. you would have thought that particular glass ceiling would be bulletproof glass, right? rick perry will be breaking that bulletproof glass.

hillary clinton will be speaking at texas southern university, she'll be receiving an award, the great barbara jordan pioneering african-american member of congress who quite famously delivered the keynote address in 1976. >> ladies and gentlemen, in case you don't know it may i now present our second keynote speaker the honor barbara jordan, democrat of houston texas. >> a lot of years passed since 1832 and during that time it would have been most unusual for any national political party to ask barbara jordan to deliver a keynote address. but tonight, here i am and i feel that notwithstanding the past that my presence here is

one additional bit of evidence that the american dream need not forever be deferred. we believe in equality for all and privilege ss for none. >> this is a police that each american regardless of background has equal standing in the public forum, all of us. because we believe this idea so firmly we are an inclusive rather than an exclusive party. let everybody come. >> barbara jordan is a great

figure in american history, she was the first african-american elected to the texas state senate since reconstruction when she was elected in 1967. she was elected to the u.s. congress in 1973. she was the first southern woman to ever be elected to the u.s. house. barbara jordan universally respected -- barbara jordan died relatively young at the age of 59. she died in 1996. president clinton said that before her health went into decline, he had been planning to nominate her for the united states supreme court. it was known before today that hillary clinton would be speaking at barbara jordan's alma matter in texas, she would be receiving this award tomorrow it was not known until this afternoon, that the subject of her speech when she gets that award tomorrow in texas is going to be voting rights. and in particular minority voting rights. barbara jordan was this

pioneering african-american politician texas southern her alma matter where hillary clinton will be speaking tomorrow, is a historically black university. minority voting rights are a particularly fraught subject right now, between the black population in texas and the latino population in texas, they're a majority minority state, it's the only majority minority state in the country that still routinely votes republican. and texas votes hugely republican, and that is a significant part because of the contours of the minority vote there. if latino voters voted at the same rate as latino voters in other states in the american southwest, texas would be a blue state state. but texas is not, texas is really really really red. texas legislature is almost entirely republican. and with their grip on texas state government republicans in texas have taken some of the

most radical steps in the nation to keep texas voting patterns exactly the way they are now, no matter how the demographics keep changing. they want to keep voter rates nice and low, particularly among the growing populations in the state, who might not be inclined to vote republican. texas republicans have finetuned their laws to make sure that texas keeps voting the way it has been. for example, when texas republicans passed new requirements. they would have to start new documentation to be able to vote. they made sure that if your i.d., your documentation you were going to try to show was a student i.d. or let's say your medicaid card or your social security card that would not count. you cannot show those if you wanted to be able to vote in texas. can you show your concealed handgun permit in order to vote in texas. >> what's the material difference between your student i.d. and your medicaid card?

the material difference there in terms of identification is hard to see. the material difference in terms of what it predicts in terms of your voting patterns is easier to see. >> when texas first rolled out this strict new voter i.d. law, there was skepticism they would be able to get away with it. it would be difficult to vote for poor people and minority people. texas went ahead with the new law anyway. the campaign legal center have been trying ever since to explain in texas and around the country just exactly how bad it is. just exactly what texas republicans have done in terms of how hard they have made it to vote in that state. watch this. >> my name is abby born and raised in houston texas. i am working with the campaign legal center to help voters get

their i.d. i met tony several weeks ago. tony has voted in every election. he came to texas to be a student at the university of houston. brilliant guy, got numerous degrees and became an engineer. >> i follow the candidates quite closely. an informed voter is more likely to make an intelligent decision than an uninformed one. i decided to be informed. >> unfortunately because of the new law, tony cannot vote, because he cannot prove his identity at the polls. >> my state i.d. was expired, so i called the dps, department of public safety and they told me that because my name was changed

in 1964 that i could not get an i.d. this is your i.d. card from -- >> dps that expired. >> here's your current voter registration. >> when he was 14 his mother and father were formally married, they decided to change his last name to his father's name. >> ever since 1964 i've had this name and there's been no problems until this dpsi.d. thing came up. >> you talk to them birth certificate isn't good enough because your name changed. we needed name change certificate. we have sent our attorneys from campaign legal center down to the courthouse. >> despite all of our efforts, they can't find the name change vert. i mean there's no real cut answer as to what the next step is. >> the bureaucrats and politicians are giving me hell and very done nothing wrong, and my family did nothing wrong.

i'm being punished without doing anything wrong. i wonder what kind of america is it that punishes people that did nothing wrong? ♪ >> i live in houston texas for 63 year ss. in my neighborhood there's going to be quite a few people not able to vote because of this new law. >> are those your papers over there? can we go flew those again? he's been to the dps three times now, the first time he went somebody told him he needed three forms of identification such as his medicare card bills, things of that nature. another person says no we need your birth certificate. i got your birth certificate, if we weren't here would you be able to drive up to huntsville

by yourself? >> he can't really get around. he has to call friends for rides, which really isn't reliable. we want to make sure you can vote. >> i'm going to take you over to the dps to get your i.d. and hopefully it runs smoothly and they don't get confused over there. >> that was an epic zpunting failure. they would not let him get his i.d. on his birth certificate there's a clerical error where they misspelled part of his last name. >> at the end of the day, he would have to change his name to the incorrect spelling on his birth certificate to get an i.d. this is what voting has become in texas. >> i'm so sorry. >> oh, it's the system. >> yeah. >> i don't know what part of it. >> let's get you back to the

house. >> this is about the state of texas using taxpayer dollars to implement the most restrictive photo i.d. law in the country that is intentionally used to suppress minority and low income voters. >> i don't think you're going to be able to vote in this election because of this law. >> that's from the campaign legal center in texas, which produced that because they've been trying to set off alarm bells. not only around texas, but around the country about how extreme texas has become in terms of what they've done to the right to vote. texas announced it was going ahead without voter i. dwchlt law, the very same day that the supreme court gutted the voting rights act. it used to stop states like texas from enacting new voting laws that were that obviously racist. literally the day the voting rights act was wiped out by the the conservative majority on the supreme court, texas announced they would go ahead with this

voter i.d. law now that they could. hillary clinton tomorrow in texas is expected to eviscerate that supreme court ruling against the voting rights act that gave texas the go ahead with this voter i.d. bill she's expected to call for congress to call for a new voting rights act. she's expected to call out texas specifically for what the state government has done to make voting as hard as possible for certain types of voters in texas. her top campaign lawyer has already filed lawsuits on voting rights against north carolina for its new voting restrictions. and wisconsin for its new voting restrictions, and ohio for its new voting restrictions 37 we're expecting more lawsuits from them in nevada virginia and maybe more. tomorrow it's texas, where logistically hillary clinton the likely democratic presidential nominee for 2016 will be raining on rick perry's presidential announcement. in substance, she will be showing in this major address on

voting issues. she will be showing how she intends to pick up what is now a long and bloody fight between democrats and republicans across the country on how hard they can make it for certain people to vote in this country. it's a fight that republicans over these last few years have been winning. tomorrow we will hear from hillary clinton about the way she thinks democrats ought to pick up that fight. i cannot wait to hear it. bring us those who want to feel well rested. aleve pm. the only one to combine a sleep aid... plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. be a morning person again, with aleve pm. audible safety beeping audible safety beeping audible safety beeping the nissan rogue

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we have lots for to come tonight, a live report from boston. startling new details tonight on alleged terror plots that were disrupted yesterday on a city street. we have that story ahead, that live report plus history being made today in the smallest state in the country. and history seeming to run backwards in one southern state where there's a legislative cliffhanger underway right now. we have a big show ahead

tonight. lots of suspense in it, please stay with us.

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the confrontation resulted in the man being shot multiple times by the officers. the man's family said that he had been talking on his cell phone with his father when he was inexplicably shot in the back and killed by these officers. but police then released this photo of a relatively giant military style knife. the ruler that's there, the white ruler is six inches long this is showing a knife that is by appearances at least, over a foot long. police recovered this weapon from the match they shot, they shot them because he threatens the officers with this knife. police brought a number of community leaders to boston police headquarters and played for them a video that they had of the shooting scene and the shooting incident. police and the fbi have not released this video to the broader public and media. but they showed it to this select group of people basically as a way of priming the

community for what to expect in terms of details about this shooting. they said that they would then show the family of the man that was killed. they would make sure the family saw the video as well. they would make a decision later as to when and where to release this to the public. we only have hearsay reports of the people who were shown that video by police. the police were trying in part to dispel any notion that this young man was shot while on his phone, or shot in the back or that there wasn't a confrontation that resulted in the shooting the police also said they would have this man under 24/7 surveillance for quite some time. we got word that the fbi had carried out a raid at a home in rhode island, in connection with the same investigation. then we got word of another person being arrested in the boston suburb of everett. today in federal court in boston, that man who was

arrested in everett today was charged with conspiring to destroy evidence. specifically he was charged with conspiring with the man who was shot by police yesterday to destroy that man's cell phone. to cover up evidence of a plot of some kind to attack police officers. the court released this complaint against the man who was arrested yesterday, the complaint says the two of them met with a third unnamed person on a beach in rhode island to discuss plans to behead someone. the complaint does not say who they were talking about beheading. the complaint claims by tuesday morning, by yesterday morning this week plans had changed, the new plan was to attack somebody else closer to home with the man who was shot by police yesterday telling the man who was arrested i can't wait that long man. the two men allegedly used a

code phrase for talking about committing violent jihad. that called that going on vacation. the man who was shot yesterday by police talked about going on vacation here in massachusetts. the man who was killed yesterday morning told his alleged co-conspirator that he planned to randomly kill police officers. either yesterday or today, tuesday or wednesday. the second man responded he should prepare a will. and that he should destroy his cell phone. he should wipe his laptop before he took any such action. the boston globe reporting today that the shooting death yesterday morning sparked this expanded investigation that led to this arrest in everett mass as well as the police raid in rhode island the overall contours of this investigation, and the seriousness of this plot remains to be explained at this point. joining us now is evan allen, a boston globe crime reporter. thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me.

>> let me ask if i summarized that correctly. is that what we know about authorities? >> that's pretty much what we know. the confrontation between the task force members and rahim occurred in the parking lot, not on a sidewalk. >> a parking lot, sort of in a suburban/urban area near cvs is that true? >> yeah the parking lot of a shopping center. >> do we know whether or not police expected this to be a consequential confrontation with this young man? obviously, if they say they had him under surveillance for a long time i don't know if they expected he knew he was being sur veiled when they chose to approach him, do we know if they expected this was going to potentially be a major confrontation with him? >> i don't believe that they did. what we've reported is that police were very surprised by his reaction. they approached him to do what they refer to as a this remember hold inquiry, which is to talk to him.

very few words were exchanged before he pulled the knife. or allegedly pulled the knife. so no this was a surprise to law enforcement. >> do we know how long he had been under surveillance? anything about the size of the investigation? part of which he was under surveillance? or he was under suspicion of having done or doing? >> they've been quiet about exactly when surveillance began or why it began. they said it has been ongoing for quite a while. rahim had a facebook page that in 2012 mentioned he had been contacted by the fbi. and in this post he said that the fbi wanted to speak with him about allegations about him. it didn't explain what those allegations were. >> it hasn't been corroborated by the fbi. it could be as far back as then. >> the video that was shown

today to community leaders and faith leaders, it was an interesting choice by the authorities to allow a select invited group of people to watch it but not release it more broadly to the media or public. do we know anything about whether that decision is final? whether it's being contested. there's public interest seeing this video. some members of the public are allowed to see it. do we expect that to get any wider release? >> we do expect it to get wider release and fairly soon. this is something that the police department and suffolk county police department have done in the past with police involved shootings. there was a shooting in march, which a gang officer was shot and his partner returned fire. they did the same thing, they released the video to a small group to sort of dispel mounting fears in the community that the police had in some way opened fire on someone who wasn't doing anything. and then fairly quickly thereafter they release it to

the public. that's the plan here as well. >> boston globe crime reporter thanks for helping us sort through this. appreciate your time tonight. >> thank you very much. it's interesting, with cases like this you never quite know where they're going until you've heard everything you're going to hear from authorities. obviously most of the time we get stories about alleged terrorism plots in this country, we get them because there was an informant on the inside someone who was working with the fbi from the beginning. that's when we end up finding about it when the sting was closed. we don't know the overall size of the investigation that resulted in this 24/7 surveillance on this guy that was shot. nor do we know how many people are going to be swept up as they continue raiding houses and arresting people that are connected to this. you're talking about more than one person working with somebody who's not an inform an the. it's a much more serious thing than when you're talking about someone acting on their own. you've heard of a "win-win," right? what about a "win-win-win"? pick up the limited edition metallic droid turbo

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what? what? seriously, there's nothing to see here. i have no idea what you're talking about. and neither does a very prominent person in today's news, who's definitely not doing the thing that he's very obviously doing. that and more elephant next.

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economic growth. >> i'm running for president if i -- if i -- if if. the fact that jeb bush has not officially declared his candidacy for the presidency when he's so clearly running for the presidency it is starting to get awkward. he forgets. to be clear, write note toself on hand. jeb bush is not running for president, not officially. not technically. >> political man. >> prin shallesidential candidate man. >> no. >> what was the bit at the end there? >> presidential candidate man? >> no. >> yeah you are. >> no i'm not. yeah, you are, no i'm not. icksnay on the andidatecay. >> he's been dodging questions

on whether he's running. as if they're gotcha questions. >> is that a trick question. what are you going with do you have a follow-up question? >> sure. you've been out on the trail, meeting in new hampshire. are you running for president? >> not yet. >> finally this past sunday on his very last day hosting cbs's face the nation the great bob schieffer became the closest bob schieffer has ever come to saying on the air, come on, dude. come on. >> it's pretty obvious that you're running for president, you're going around the country, raising huge amounts of money for your super pack in addition to making all the traditional campaign stops everywhere. watchdog groups and some of your opponents are saying you really may be violating campaign laws. do you think in some way you may be just at least violating the spirit of the law? do you feel that you have

violated the law here? >> no i would never do that. we're going to completely adhere to the law for sure. and should i be a candidate? that will be in the relatively near future where that decision will be made. there will be no coordination at all with any super pack. >> you're not telling me there's a possibility you may not run? >> look i hope i run, to be honest with you, i'd like to run, but i haven't made the decision. >> what would have to happen between now and there to convince you not to run. >> who knows. i've learned not to answer a lot of hypothetical questions. >> you're probably going to run? >> i hope so. i hope i'm a candidate in the near future. >> i sure hope so bob. it's totally out of my hands, but i really hope so. this is a real question right. what does it mean if you are very obviously a presidential candidate, but you say you are not. you are raking in millions of dollars for your super paces, it would be illegal if you were a

declared candidate. what he's doing makes a mochrie of the law. the bush campaign is counting on the sec to not challenge him. the head of the sec said the likelihood of the law is slim. the sec is dysfunctional, it's worse than dysfunctional. last week campaign watchdog groups asked the justice department to look into bush's campaign instead of the sec. the group says they want a special council to investigate whether jeb bush's massive fund-raising is illegal, because he really is in every meaningful and financial sense a presidential candidate, so he can't be raising millions of dollars for a super pac. is what he's doing basically cheating? whether or not the sec is going to do the relevant policing

here, they're the ones that are supposed to understand what the rules are around this stuff. and what the rules are supposed to be for. is what's happening with jib bush right now, which everyone agrees is getting increasingly ridiculous. is what's happening with jeb bush par for the course. is this -- everybody does it. he's the shiniest object doing it, that's what we're talking about. is jeb bush pushing it further, or pushing it in a more consequential way than other people have in the past. joining us now is ellen weintraub. commissioner winetraut was first appointed in 200 #, she's its longest serving member. is there a way to tell -- is there anev den sherry basis on which you can distinguish if a candidate is testing the waters versus actually running? >> there is there are rules on this, i want to be clear that i'm not talking about what any individual is doing, there are a

lot of folks out there that appear to be thinking about running for office these days and they're trying a lot of different techniques i think the sec has an obligation to be clear about the fact that there are rules and there are clear rules. there are rules if you're a candidate, and the rules aren't that much different if you're merely exploring a candidacy. you still can only explore a candyidacy using federally raised money. that's all that the law permits. and once a individual decides to become a candidate. all that money is going to have to be disclosed. since you asked, there are standards for when you cross the line from testing the waters to becoming a candidate. an actual candidate who has to register with the sec and file all the paperwork. there are objective criteria for that. if the candidate comes out and says, i'm the candidate, that's the easiest way for us to tell. if they're advertising their intention to run, if they're

raising more money than could be reasonably expected to fund exploratory activities, if they appear to be amassing money for an actual run for office money that will be spent on the campaign, all of these are criteria that indicate that someone has crossed the line and become a candidate. >> if someone has crossed the line and become a candidate, but says they aren't is that a defense? >> if you've done all the other things, the fact that you haven't said i'm a candidate, any reasonable defense to not being held accountable than the laws you ought to fill if you are a candidate. >> saying you're a candidate clearly trips the threshhold. these cases have come up from time to time with the sec. >> do candidates always do this or are they pushing it further than they have in the past in a more substantive way. >> i think what's different this year is the presence of super packs, these testing the water

rules have been on the books for many years, far before citizens united, and the ways that candidates are interacting with super packs is new since 2010. >> given that the chair of the sec has said that the chair can't enforce campaign law this cycle, that dysfunctional doesn't begin to describe it is it a good idea for the justice department to get involved as some of these good government groups have asked, not just jeb bush but candidates on the aisle 1234. >> i'm not talking about any specific candidate, i hesitate to tell the justice department what they should do. the justice department has only a small slice of jurisdiction over campaign finance violations. we have exclusive jurisdiction over civil enforcement of the law. that's most of the violations civil they're not criminal in nature. so we really need to do a better job of doing our job. i've been pushing my colleagues

to try to resolve cases on a more timely basis. this has been a big problem, commissioners sitting on cases and not letting them come to conclusion. i've been encouraged by the fact that at least one of my colleagues seems to be interested in working with me on coming up with a policy that would allow us to resolve the cases on a more timely basis. the public would know what the rules were and how we were dealing with these complaints. >> was that a slight hint there would be some progress in the future. >> >> i always believe in progress, i would like to believe if there are clear cut violations of the law, we will get a vote at the commission to say so. >> ellen weintraub really appreciate your time tonight. you have to speak delicately about these matters. thanks for helping us understand it. i appreciate it. >> thanks rachel pleasure to be here. it's amazing, the part of the government in charge of policing this stuff is like yeah, we'd love to. can't really -- they're the only part of the government in charge of enforcing it.

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correction, at the top of the show tonight i had a segment about the texas legislature rolling back a voting rights in the state of texas, we showed a graphic on screen during that segment about the partisan make-up of the texas senate. and the graphic was wrong. we somehow colored outside the lines and got the partisan make-up of the texas senate all wrong. in case you want to clip it out, this is the right one. the texas senate is on the left there, there are 11 democrats in the texas senate and 20 republicans, we had that wrong. the partisan make-up all wrong at the top of the show. i've already eaten all of my red and blue crayons and melted down the rest to make sure i do not make the same mistake again. we'll be right back.

one of the less heralded novelties about barack obama to be president of the united states was before him, we had never before had a u.s. president born in hawaii. and it turns out there are a bunch of states that have only ever had one president. ronald reagan is the only president born in illinois.

the only president born in connecticut was george w. bush. grover cleveland was the only president born in new jersey. bill clinton was the only president born in arkansas. but today, lincoln chafee announced that he is running for president. and if lincoln chafee's campaign goes way, way, way better than expect, that would not only make him the first president ever from the state of rhode island. he already, today, became rhode island's first ever presidential candidate. ever. the politics school at the university of minnesota looked at this today. kind of amazing. in the 225 years that rhode island has been a state, they have sent 74 representatives to congress. 48 u.s. senators. there have been 70 different rhode island governors, three of them in link chafee's family. but none of those, none of those people in rhode island has ever made a bid for the white house before lincoln chafee threw his

hat in the ring today. he's the first person from rhode island to ever run for president. rhode island congratulations. whether or not lincoln chafee wins the nomination or wins the nomination, he has made presidential history for rhode island just by announcing. and that's it. that's all i got. the world is filled with air. but for people with copd sometimes breathing air can be difficult. if you have copd, ask your doctor about once-daily anoro ellipta. it helps people with copd breathe better for a full 24hours. anoro ellipta is the first fda-approved product containing two long-acting bronchodilators in one inhaler. anoro is not for asthma. anoro contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. it is not known if this risk is increased in copd. anoro won't replace rescue inhalers for sudden copd symptoms

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the win-win-win. a new way to save without settling. only on verizon. ♪ [music] ♪ defiance is in our bones. new citracal pearls. delicious berries and cream. soft, chewable, calcium plus vitamin d. only from citracal. in the heart of north carolina, you would find a place called winston salem industries for the blind. it opened during the great depression as a place where blind people could learn and get work. a young woman moved to north carolina and ended up falling in love with another worker there. and then her boyfriend proposed

to her and she said yes and they went to the courthouse to get married. it was 1976. when they got there, these two young workers from the industries for the blind, they were refused service. the local magistrate said that they wouldn't give this young couple a license to get married in forsythe county. not because they're legally blind, but because one of them was white and one of them was black. this was 1976. they ended up getting a lawyer who fought for them in term court, and it took three years, but they eventually won. today in north carolina this same couple carol ann and thomas percenton, they've been happily married going on years, they have raised kids and young grandkids together. but the story of them is back in the local papers in north carolina today for an incredible reason. last year, a federal court ruled that gay couples also have the right to marry in north carolina. when that happened north carolina legislatures started debating a bill to let public officials refuse to marry people

on the basis of their own personal religious objection. if the county magistrate objects to her marriage on his or her own religious grounds of any kind, too bad for you. magistrate committees refuse to marry gay and lesbian couples or couples remarrying after a divorce or couples with one buddhist and one jew, couples where one person is white and the other is black just like the good old days. north carolina avenues governor vetoed that bill. ever since state lawmakers have been trying to override that veto and get this thing passed into law. now in the panls of the "raleigh news and observer" with this decision looming, carol ann percentons, citizen of north carolina, is telling her story again. she rights in "the news & observer" today that when she and her huts tried to get married in 1976 quote, the magistrate told us that marrying an interracial couple went against his religious beliefs. there was a second magistrate on

duty but he too, said he wouldn't marry us because doing so would violent his religious beliefs. one of them took out a bible and began to ek lecture us about their religious views and tell us why thomas and i can tell not be together. i will never forget how painful it was to be told by government officials that they would not give tomsace and be a citizen. it was supposed to be a happy day but instead we were turned away because of somebody. i am a church-going christian. my dpath has never taught me to turn people away because of who they love. if i worked for the government i would have to treat all people equally regardless of my religious views. government employees take an oath to serve all the public and they're supposed to be impartial. the pain from that day when government officials used their own religious beliefs to discriminate against us and keep comace and i from marrying each other, that pain will never leave out. whether gay or straight black or white jew or again tile nobody has a right to tell

anybody else who they can marry. house of arrests must top this so no other couple in north carolina has to go through what we did when they want to marry the person that they love. today in north carolina the house of representatives did not take up the question of trying to override the governor's veto. they instead moved it to the calendar for tomorrow where it now sits in the category of unfinished business. north carolina lawmakers, you have a decision to make. are you going to get backwards to a time the nation left long ago that everybody thought we couldn't go back to or are we going forward? i cannot believe north carolina is thinking about going back to that, but they are absolutely considering it. it's on the docket for tomorrow. we'll keep you posted. that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again tomorrow. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening lawrence. >> rachel just when we get used to it being the 21st century, you tell us a story like that. >> north carolina, man. >> thank you