♪ >> i've seen american life i've seen it from the red dirt of a west texas cotton field, from a campus if college station, texas, from the elevated view of a c-130 cockpit and from the governor's office of the texas capitol. ♪ >> our people never stay knocked down. we get back up. we dust ourselves off. we move forward you know what, we will do it again. ♪ >> the reason i'm running for president is i know for certain

our country's best days lie ahead. there is nothing wrong in america today that a change in leadership will not make happen. ♪ doing it the best i can yeah ♪ ♪ doing the best i can i keep on doing it the best i can ♪ >> with that, rick perry becomes the 10th officially declared republican candidate for president. i'm abby huntsman. as we come on the air, the gop field get larger again. jeb bush nearly making it official on twitter with an announcement of his announcement that will come a week from monday. donald trump and bobby jindal both making announcement after that. hard to believe, but the field is significantly larger than it was four years ago. i was partial to the tall guy the left there. perry entered that race as an instant front-runner. this time he's just hoping he makes it on to the debate stage. here with us with a rare appearance at the table is friend of the show, jonathan

allen allen, chief political correspondent. good to have you in person. especially on a big day like today. >> it's awesome to be here. i loved the "just the ten of us" reel. >> too many cooks. >> so true. >> $50 for who've can name what show that was the spinoff of. >> can you answer it? >> i cannot. thanks for asking the question -- >> what it was? >> i'm not sure. i think it was "growing pains." >> that's what i was thinking -- >> snoun. >> -- you don't know? >> no. that's why you get $50 for the answer. >> my favorite show, "growing pains." i will say talking about rick perry, he is probably the most likeable guy in the field. he's the person you do want to have a beer with. there's a lot you can say about rick perry. as we say in politics first impressions are everything. last go round, he was everyone's favorite in the beginning. he then had bumps in the road including the oops moment. i asked eliminate that defined the way -- i asked him if that defined the way people think

about him. >> i don't worry about whether or not someone's going to look at what occurred two years ago and define me. what's being defined now is the future of america. >> here he is hoping to make it on the debate stage. the poll numbers are not looking great for him. why do you think he's running? >> i think he's got a good story to tell. as my colleague, pat iglesias, wrote for fox, the story of texas and its economy under him as governor was one of booming -- one of people moving to texas, the economy doing great. if you could tell the story, it's a good one to tell. i think it gives him a position in the republican party. he's a tried and true conservative on social issues. and one who's proven against the measurement of other governors, republican governors running, that he's been able to manage a pretty big state economy. >> the control room is telling us that "just the ten of us" was a spinoff of "growing pains." >> look at that buddy. awesome. >> my youth. >> the song that's been playing in my head all day is "bad

blood" by taylor swift -- >> why wouldn't it be? >> because auto -- because of all the days jeb bush could -- ok'd announce an announcement a thing now, is the day that rick perry announced he's running for president. that bad blood goes back. they have to be frustrated. >> they don't like each other much. for bush he gets to rain on rick perry's parade. in addition his announcement's coming two days after hillary clinton does her big rally on roosevelt island in new york. i think it will steal a little thunder from that. then hillary clinton, i imagine we'll see her on television after that. there will be competition june 15th for media attention and voter attention. >> jeb has had a rocky role. he's had trouble separated himself from others in the pack in terms of polling. instant expected? at the beginning he said you have to be willing to lose the primary to be able to win the

general -- >> i think it will be one of his strengths in a general election is if he's able to keep the positions and win the republican primary. he's still doing well still in front of everybody else. we've learned that he's not the candidate many expect. and bush may be a better candidate than we thought he was at the time. >> he's got charisma. >> we should wait and hear what happens, jeb bush declared before it happened. now everyone's reassessing. maybe he was never a front-runner at all. another candidate looking to get traction brand new is lindsay graham. i give him credit. he is being very clear and specific about what his alternative foreign policy would be.

it's scary, but he's outlining it. listen. >> people are very interested in about what i would do not just how much i think obama sucks. i would take more troops into iraq around 10,000 thicken the security forces, i'd have more trainers advise on, aviation about tall -- advisers aviation battalions, i would get turkey, egypt, and saudi arabia and say okay we're going into syria. we're going to take isil down and get rid of assad. i would go after them and pull the caliphate up by its roots. >> credit for honesty. he's saying more troops in iraq as if we haven't tried that and said "we're going to get everyone together and go into syria further than we already are." your thoughts on the political hunger for that policy in the republican primary. >> i think there's a real divide. you've got lindsay graham -- i think some others in the republican party. you go look at dick cheney right now talking about bringing back the policies of the

administration. you have a hawkish bent there. on the other side is rand paul saying we've got to be careful about what we do in terms of foreign engagement, who doesn't like authoritarianism in terms of domestic spying by the nsa. there's a fights that the party will have over what the sole is. whether it is this party of engagement or one that goes back almost 100 years the more isolationist wing making a comeback -- >> i would quibble. i appreciate your analysis, you're definitely right about this split. i don't think not starting a new ground war in syria makes you isolationist. >> i'm using stereotypical polls. there's a wariness among republicans that there wasn't 10 or 12 years ago about war. i think lindsay graham is someone who has yet to meet a foreign engagement that he did not like. that's a problem for him. and i think -- i would hope that if he had the chance to take it back he would not use the "s" word about the president. >> indeed. i totally agree.

even if you're critical there's a certain level of respect that you have to show. other side, hrc, at the historically black college near houston. and talking about expanding voting rights to a minimum of 20 days. an interesting suggestion. and this following her stance on mass incarceration make me say she understands that black voters are going to be a critical constituency, and that she has to reach out. she cannot take them for granted. >> that's interesting. in 2007 in the senate she had a voting rights bill that would have done 50-day window across the country for early voting. this is something consistent with her past. i think what you're seeing from hillary clinton now is her attempt to gather the democratic party. you see mass incarcerations, voting rights, expanding what

the president's done on immigration. i think with the roosevelt island speech where she's talking about franklin roosevelt, there you've got the economic liberals of the democratic party. this is the gathering time. she's trying to get ready for the big election -- >> get her ducks in a row. >> thank you as always for being here. we appreciate it. we also want to shift gears to the foiled eded terror plots in boston. new details on who may have been among the aemged ed-- the alleged targets. sarah, what can you tell us from boston? >> reporter: good afternoon. we now know that anti-muslim activist pamela geller was the person usaamah rahim initially planned to target. although authorities describe that as more just talk. more of a fantasy really. instead on tuesday, rahim called dlafd david wright telling him he planned to go after the boys in blue referring to law enforcement in massachusetts, because it was the easiest target. he said he was going to go sclakz fbi agents took to mean

that he was planning an attack a gee had on these law enforcement officers. now david wright has been charged with encouraging rahim to destroy evidence specifically his cell phone. he advised him to not only delete information but be sure to smash the device as well. wright appeared in court yesterday. in an interview after his arrest, he told law enforcement that he not only agreed with rahim's plan but supported it as well. all of this laid out in court documents. thard man has been questioned -- a third man has been questioned since tuesday by law enforcement. he participated in a conversation in person between rahim and wright last sunday on a beach in rhode island in inclimate weather. he's not been charged with any crime. meanwhile, rahim's family is preparing to give a press conference in less than an hour outside the cvs store where he was shot and killed. they released a press release in advance of this urging calm in the muslim community and local

community. back to you. >> thanks for that report. coming up in the "news cycle," more horrific headlines about the dead lead lion attack. a -- deadly lion attack. a start contrast between nature's beauty and danger. the discovery channel bring a beautiful view from inside the animal kingdom. in sports the nbc finals tip off tonight. pregame is here with espn's dynamic duo of michael and jamel. of course we'll spin about female viagra. >> yeah. >> hey, this is "the cycle," where nothing is too taboo. audible safety beeping audible safety beeping audible safety beeping the nissan rogue with safety shield technologies. the only thing left to fear is you

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welcome back. we are learning new details this hour about that young woman killed in a lion attack while on a south african safari. 29-year-old katherine chappell worked for a canadian production company. she did visual effects for the show "game of thrones." she was originally from ryan, new york, outside of the city. she will be laid to rest there over the weekend. we have more from stephanie gosk on what we've learned from this tragic and horrifying incident. >> reporter: for 29-year-old kate chappell, animal conservation was a passion. she hoped to make fame about the danger of poaching. on this trip she went by herself, leaving a boyfriend behind in vancouver. in an obituary her mother says "everyone who met her loved her. she lived a life of adventure. she loved traveling." >> she was so much fun, always dwoik crack a joke. -- quick to crack a joke. >> reporter: carmen met her at a special effects show in new york working together on scenes like these from the movie

"noah." soon after she worked on the series "game of thrones," winning an emmy. >> you've got to be good to make it where she made it. >> it's true. she got to work at big places. motion pictures, you don't get to just do that -- like, she was a talented girl. >> reporter: the lion park outside of johannesburg seemed an obvious stop for chappell. a chance to get close to the animals she loved. despite park warnings chappell's tour operator says she rolled down the window to take a picture. australian brandon smith did the same thing in march. >> one of those things where you look around and you -- you think that you're in a safe spot to kind of quickly get that money shot. >> reporter: a lion attacked, jumping through the car window mauling his leg. in the last four months there have been three separate attacks in the same park. on wednesday, a director from a prominent animal conservation group said lion park is at least partly to blame. "lion park promotes petting and

walking with wildlife. the impression is given that these animals are no longer wild but tame." the park promises an up-close and completely safe experience. but rules only work if they are followed. >> thank you very much for that report. incidents like this remind us that wild animals are, well, wild. a much-anticipated six-part series premiering on discovery this weekend and n conjunction with the bbc proves that while the challenges aren't the same as we humans face, life is a constant struggle. >> there's a story that unites each of us with every animal on the planet. it's the story of the greatest of adventures the journey through life. for animals there is just one goal at the end of this journey -- to leave offspring. but this can be immensely difficult to achieve. >> "life story" premieres

saturday at 9:00 8:00 central on the discovery channel. tom hugh jones is producer and director. thank you very much for being with us. what an incredible film. >> thank you very much. >> i have to say, the big takeaway as we were watching is how similar animals ranging from a whale to a spider are to humans. whether it is the family bond or even sex. >> yeah. all animals ourselves included are trying to achieve the ultimate goal, to raise the next generation. i guess for humans, it's the exception not to make it that far. for animals, it's generally the rule. you know the odds are against it incredible. >> you're talking about mating success, critical for humans as well as animals. and it's thrilling in your piece to see the lengths that animals will go to woo a mate. >> we'll do whatever it takes to win a mate.

>> that's amazing footage. you see that and don't want to watch this, i don't know what's wrong with you. tell us about how far animals will go to woo somebody. >> it fish -- >> insane. incredible. often some of the best new behaviors you find are a result of males desperately trying to get laid basically. >> just like humans. just like men. >> in nature the men have to do all the work. they have to be the showy ones they have to do all the displays. and that puffer fish was an extraordinary example. he's building this sand castle under water to try and persuade a female to lay her eggs in the middle of it. >> she lays eggs in the middle? >> yeah, and he has to stay and guard them. it is up to him to do most of the hard work. >> amazing. i want to show more of the

footage. you also follow a pride of lions. let's look at that. >> all the lionesses have their own cubs who will be playplates and -- playmates and future allies. under the female's watchful eyes, she can prom 'tis her stalking, pouncing, and fighting skills. >> they're adorable super cute. rolling around they look like big kittens. then you explain that if their dad is displeased at the top of this pride the next male will come in and kill all of them and have new biebs -- not exactly like humans. a little more brutal. >> i think people assume because the lions are king of the beasts they have it easy. actually, their society is incredibly bloody. a young lion cub's major problem is from other lions. only about one in five make it to adulthood. >> one in five? >> yeah. >> wow. >> how did you get that you will footage? >> we spent a long time in the

field. we went to 30 different countries. probably spent at least two years out with different teams all over the world. probably spending months at a time when you see a sequence at last for two or three minutes that's taken months to capture. >> did you guys ever have a dangerous moment while you were filming? >> yeah. we had quite a few dangerous moments. trying to think of what the most -- i think the hard issue for the team is when they went to the congo jungle. the conditions were terrible. a member of the team got some serious illnesses, and they're constantly battling against, you know parasites and that -- >> with animals attacking you or your team? >> i don't think anything us. as usual, the biggest dangers we faced were from people. there's a lot of places we visit which kind of unsettle the moment. >> well which type of animal hams it up the most for the l-- which

animal hams it up for the camera the most? i think it was the puffer fish that you saw in the mating sequence. the red and yellow bird the display is great. >> thank you very much. the series premieres saturday on discovery. returning to dover delaware, the body of beau biden, a viewing this afternoon. the son of vice president joe biden. -passed away at the -- he passed away at the age of 46 after a battle with brain cancer. president obama will deliver the eulogy saturday in wilmington. your mom's got your back. your friends have your back. your dog's definitely got your back. but who's got your back when you need legal help? we do. we're legalzoom, and over the last 10 years, we've helped millions of people protect their families and run their businesses. we have the right people on-hand to answer your questions backed by a trusted network of attorneys.

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it's the most wonderful time of the year. stop look at me like that. tonight begins the nba finals. a clash between two of the greatest players on the planet. lebron james and steph curry. and a battle between two

long-suffering cities. cleveland hasn't had a pro sports champ in over 50 years. oakland hasn't had one in over 25 years. new york hasn't had one in four years. i'm dying! meanwhile, the nhl is also down to two. the stanley cup finals began last night. our executive producer's team the chicago blackhawks, beat the tampa bay lightning with a stunning third period comeback. and saturday will bring the belmont stakes where american pharaoh seeks to become the first horse to win the triple crown in 37 years. and the finals of the french open which serena williams will win yet again. to talk about all things sports we have two people i love and respect even though sometimes they're doing too much. the hosts of espn's "his and hers," michael and jamel. welcome. >> thank you for having us. >> i want to hear from both of you, ladies first. who's going to win the nba finals and why? >> wow. right out of the gate. for me this has been a really difficult decision. i mean mike and i have talked

about it extensively, clearly during the layoff. i'm going to go with the cavs. that's strictly for one reason -- lebron james. he's the best player -- our best player on the planet. and it's actually a tough choice because golden state by every metric is the better team. but i think the cavs have the best player and considering how he's drug this team throughout the playoffs despite injuries, some other shortcomings why abandon him now? >> dragging scrubs though that's -- a better team around lebron than people want to give him credit for. i've got the warriors in six games. jemele mentioned it. if are you checking off a box for advantages, every box is in the warrior's favor except the one -- warriors' favor except the one that says lebron. they have curry, practically unguardable. i think golden state is so versatile. they're really a good defensive team. we see the three pointers. they're a really good defensive team. their home court advantage, when you get to this point both teams are capable of winning on the other's floor.

i don't see cleveland winning enough on golden state's floor. i think it's golden state, better team top to bottom. there will be no -- lebron will play well. he doesn't have enough help, even though they're better than you give them credit for. >> you're talking about what basketball fans call the "l" factor lebron. there's a debate between who's better, lebron or michael. michael, as we know had six championships. if lebron or the "l" factor can lead the injury hype u-riddled championship -- the injury-riddled team to a championship by himself -- >> no, no, no. >> buzzer -- >> the number-one michael jordan stand. >> am i wrong? >> no, estimate point maybe lebron's not the player but at some point we have to let michael jordan go. let him have his dad bod and hoop earring and jeans and let this man go. >> i don't know a lot about -- i don't know a lot about

basketball, but if we have to let him go at some point, it's still soon. we still talk about george washington, thomas jefferson -- >> still alive. >> michael's still with us. >> we can lets him go when somebody comes and is better than him. >> i understand that. but here's the thing for all the people discussing, for everybody who's our age or around our age, he's still the poster on your wall. he's still the -- >> not on mine. >> his shoes they remain relevant. everybody's got the 11s and all that. it's hard for people to emotionally wrap themselves around somebody might be better. >> it's that as time goes on, people forget just how good michael jordan was, the all-around player. >> y'all won't let us forget. >> mike, glad we solved this. >> the defensive player jordan was. you're not that old. our memories haven't gone yet. >> preach. >> a better player. so is larry bird too, that's another conversation. >> i want to talk a little hockey. it's down to the chicago blackhawks versus tampa lightning. the blackhawks now thinking about their legacy hoping to make in their third dealership

in years. they stole the show on the lightning's home ice in taechblmpa. would anyone be putting their money on the lightning? >> the lightning i think in the playoffs much like serena williams and the french toure mentioned that earlier they dropped the first game. i think 1-3 -- serena's first set. 1-3 in playoffs yet 3-0 in game twos they scored 17 goals, nine by the power play. i expect the lightning to bounce back from giving away a game they think they should have won in game one. the series especially in the stanley cup finals, they turned so quickly. i would not count the lightning out yet. >> swlarnl we saw gaenchs the-- certainly what we saw against the rangers, i understand why you would say. that but the rangers' super stars didn't show up. in this series, this is totally different. i think the blackhawks what we saw already was the definition of stealing one on the road. tampa bay despite how good they've been on the road again, particularly in the last series, i still feel like chicago, this is a different team. this is a superstar team.

i think they'll win it. >> so jemele if people aren't into hockey but want to watch the stanley cup finals, what should shea be watching for here? -- should they be watching for here? >> the nhl playoffs in general knowing that just a bad bounce oh good bounce depending who you're rooting for can change a series. i think of all the professional sports it's fair to say that home ice probably means the least. >> yeah. yeah. >> in the nhl, the unexpected a lot of times does happen despite what i said. i undermined my argument. i think the pace of the game, the fact one goal mean so much, one store, one chance, one opportunity. i think that's the excitement factor is what people should get into. >> even though you don't respect jordan, still respect you. i want to hear what you have to say about saturday the belmont. there hasn't been a triple crown winner in abby's lifetime. she said she wants to know what that's like. will we have one that. >> no. >> no. >> don't hold your breath. >> no. >> they agree. >> yeah. >> you might see another scene

-- i think the owner california chrome's owner, steve colburn, lost his mind in the grandstand last year. his wife had to hold him back from saying something. he apologized to her. you have all the horses that sit out the preakness. if they win a kentucky derby, they come into the belmont fresh and end up winning. the last six belmonts have won -- have been won by a horse who either this is their first triple crown race, or they ran in the kentucky derby, started the kentucky derby and didn't run in the preakness. i think there are five out of seven opponents for american pharaoh in this field that did not run in the kentucky derby or preakness. i think that freshness will matter when it comes down to this long race at the belmont. >> go ahead -- >> i'll make it succinct. my co-host tends to have a lot of words. you know why there won't be a triple crown winner? because science. >> you can spin all kind of nonsense about michael jordan i didn't say anything to about you. >> we understand all that about

co-host. >> wow. >> there's a thing about horse racing where one horse gets ahead, about to win the triple crown. everybody else is like we got to pull him down. jeme leand michael, thanks for the time. check them out on espn every day. next on this show, we'll spin about female viagra because we're not afraid to talk about afternoon delight on this show. >> what? and stay tuned for a -- i'm looking forward to abby talks caitlyn jenner "the cycle" keeps rolling on after this.

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affect the brain interesting in and of itself. with men it's biological. with women it's more complicated. and i've got to say, i'm conflicted. on the one hand like yes, finally, the women get theirs when the men have had theirs -- we have to see their commercials all the time every day. on the other hand -- >> especially this channel. >> yeah. on every channel, i think. on the other hand, i'm concerned that the pharmaceutical industry is convincing women that they have a problem that they don't really have. >> mm. sex drive? >> i mean -- >> yeah. there's a whole range of normal second drives. so to say like you're not -- sex drives. so to say you're not normal and you need medicate if you're not here at this ideal, i don't know about that. >> i talk to a lot of women that say they go through -- sorry guys we're going to get personal here -- when gha through menopause they totally lose their sex drive. you're still at a -- a fun, young, lively age, many women when they go through menopause. they want to have the sex drive. has a relationship on the -- has

an impact on a relationship with the other half. men would love. it women i think people underestimated that women appreciate sex life. you know, we always talk about men and how that's all that they want. but women yes, we love that attachment to people. i think there's also a part of us that loves the sex drive, as well. >> it's important in a relationship. >> talk about it's complicated. yeah, it's obviously complicated, and you know, i think that the answer is actually bigger than this pill. i read a book -- "the male brain" and "the female brain." she talks about arousal and interest for women is based on the previous 24 hours. whereas for men, it's the previous three minutes. >> when you're doing the dishes, you're helping yourself out? >> yes. women need a pill that make men do the dishes, do the laundry make lunch for kids tomorrow. understand houltw to relate to her, watch her show instead of the game -- >> the pill needs to go into the guy -- >> or in women and make the guy

do the things women need him to do. >> that's complicatesed. >> women are complicated. >> it's layered. >> it is layered. >> as our scientist friends say i'm not a scientist, but there's a culture around it. what nooixstrikes subcommittee in a lot of articles it's called the female viagra which isn't con instant with what we know of the science. viagra has to do with blood flow and the age of males and how healthy they are to get to that state. and from what we've read about this this isn't that kind of pill at all. to use a taxonomy of what is this habit we take the male form and apply it, there is your viagra, it's not. may be very different. another statistic i saw in the article said that the state that this is addressing is one out of ten women who have something close to blow to sex drive which, to your point, can be

pre-menopausal. that is the dynamic in the foot industry saying we want to target that as a consumer base. i think there's an something medical, cultural conversation which is between a woman or man and his or her doctor which is is the state you're in something you want to change. if you don't necessarily want to change that in your life, that's fine. >> "marie claire" interviewed a bunch of women a while back whether the fda was first starting to look at potentially taking this on. they found pre-menopausal women but also women who have had kids with their husband, their lives were so busy, that was the last thing on their minds. for some, they were using experimental treatments. they found it was important. it made a big difference for them how they felt their self-esteem, their relationship with their husband -- >> it makes you wonder -- >> i think access is a positive thing. >> absolutely. makes you wonder what the commercials will be like. >> yeah. >> actually, we did something like this back on my web show a

while back. you remember back in the '90s, bob dole did viagra commercials? we went to the street outside of 30 rock and asked people which modern day political candidate should sell female viagra. let's take a look at that. what current politician would be good for the female viagra sdmeshl. >> scott walker. -- sdmeshl. >> not obama. >> bill clinton. >> yes. >> an unfair question because i think the immediate answer is hillary clinton. >> not hillary. she's tough, you know -- >> the obvious idea comes to mind is hillary clinton. >> why hillary? >> she's a strong woman. she's -- she has no shame to speak her mind. and to know what's good for us. >> hillary, that's the only one i can think of. >> the highly unscientific poll. hillary was definitely number one. i loved the woman who without hesitation is like scott walker. she had been waiting her whole

life to get asked that question. >> why did she think scott walker is the one? >> not obama? like why couldn't he -- >> definitely not obama. >> no. >> not obama -- >> bill clinton? oh yes. >> yeah. >> bill clinton, i think that's a reasonable idea. >> very good. >> all right. hilarious. next can you disagree about politics without being disagreeable? i think we're probably proof of that. that. ♪ ♪ when you're living with diabetes steady is exciting. only glucerna has carbsteady clinically proven to help minimize blood sugar spikes. so you stay steady ahead.

the question i get the most is probably do you feel fear? what's the closest you've ever come to death? they're boring. i have a website because i need a way to put myself forward in my own way. this is my story and this is how i want to share it with people. i'm alex honnold and this is my squarespace.

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political tv news and social media soapboxes. during the turmoil of the 1960s, two men crystalized america's debate with their own legendary debates. arguments on modern society, communism, civil rights turned them, in a sense into modern american political stars. on the left radical norman mailer. a literary genius writing books and essays, selling millions of copies. he was also politically and socially as left as they come. here he is analyzing the feel-good culture of the '60s. >> young men between, say, 15 and 30 who would be without thinking of it, subscribe to hemmingway's philosophy in every detail. they would believe that the first point of philosophy being what makes me feel good is good. >> what about you? >> i subscribe to it but not wholly. it's too difficult. it's impossible to live with it. >> on the right, mailer's long-time antagonist, william buckley. he founded the influential

conservative national review still around today. and his political philosophy laid the groundwork for much of today's conservative movement. here's buckley defending america's air strikes in vietnam despite horrific civilian casualties. >> the very fact that children gets burned in a war is simply like children exist. it's an example of nothing but that. if you're trying to insinuate i think you should be apologetic for having done so. that lyndon johnson attempts to burn children because this is how he satisfies his perversity. >> that was from a televised debate between the two of them. a new book, "buckley and mailer," profiles the parallel lives of these intellectual giants. we have the author here historian kevin shultz. good day to you. >> thanks for having me. >> you think about the two of them, the dialogue they were having, and the resonance throughout america. seemed that norman mailer at least initially was drawing on literary credentials. burkly more overtly political. why did -- buckley more overtly political. why did they both matter beyond the worlds they commitment out? >> well both were incredibly

articulate voices. buckley came around in the 1950s and sort of strewn together all the various brands of american conservatism. and because of that and because of national review which you mentioned in the beginning, he became the real symbol of the right wing. both politically and in -- culturally. and mailer for his part he had a great breakout novel in 1948. then in the 1950s he drifted more into politics and his novels were sorts of not quite as successful. and he began to write what came to be called new journalism. the author was sort of the key character in the events. he was one of the inventors of that. and he realized by doing that talking about politics talking about america as a whole, he could write these really marvelous books, these marvelous articles. because he was so articulate and a great writer, people began to look up to him, began to see his ideas as a powerful force on the left. >> one thing that you write about that i thought was fascinating is even though these two men obviously ended up on

opposite ends of the political spectrum, you said that they started with a common complaint about america. explain what you mean. >> what drew me to the book was, we have that mythological interpretation of the '60s. we love talking about the '60s. you think of "mad men" or "selma." i wanted to tell the story of the '60s that could engage with all of these events, the civil rights movements, the capital coming up, with the women's rights movement with the cold war. both of these guys were discussing all of these topics. and what brought them together was that they were engaged with these topic generally speaking. they came from similar not quite similar background. mailer was raised middle class jewish upbringing in brooklyn. buckley was raised in upper-class background catholic, in connecticut. but they both went to ivy league schools. they both naught world war ii. mostly on the periphery of action. they had a lot of common ground

on which they could engage. they both severely loved the country and wanted to live up to its better angels. that's what their argument were about that's really what their arguments for about throughout the entire decade. >> i love mailer and one part of the mailer story i love is in 1969 meets the mayor of new york city in the mad cap campaign. incredible story. he won in new york to his own state, empower each of the neighborhoods, bar all private vehicles from manhattan. what happened to this campaign? >> he also promised a one sweet sunday every month, there would be no electricity allowed on manhattan and realized the first hot sunday in the summer -- >> didn't go so well. >> this was another marvelous parallel because buckley ran for mayor in 1965 and here's in 1969 and playing the intellectual's role of bringing fresh ideas. they knew they weren't going to win. but they wanted to bring fresh idea to the table.

they wanted to propose things as crazy to suggest as a way to get new yorkers and the american population thinking more creatively about the problems disturbing the country. >> william buckley fascinates me as well. he would talk about the importance of appealing to the younger generation but also his concern with crazy comments from republicans said it would give the media the opportunity to paint them as being extreme. we can only speculate now, but what do you think he would think of the gop today? how would he view what's going on right now? >> one of the things he did in the '50s and '60s is kick out the harsher people on the right. there's a link of anti-semitism and tried to get rid of that. conspiracy theorists, he tried to remove them. so i think he was very cautious about people too far on one ideological spectrum. if he looked at it today, i think he would be more

disappointed there isn't common ground on both parties left and the right more engaged what was the good of the whole country. because i think that's really one of the things he was striving to do. >> before we get too away buckley still left plenty of room for people to get civil rights and mailer for a lot of misogyny. mixed records but clearly influential people. thank you. americans have gotten pretty good at speakkeeping up with the kardashians but abbey thinks the person you should be keeping up with is caitlyn jenner. on. to always build something better airplanes that fly cleaner and farther on less fuel. that redefine comfort and connect the world like never before. after all, you can't turn dreams into airplanes unless your passion for innovation is nonstop. ♪ ♪ vo: with beyond natural dry pet food, you can trust our labels. when we say real meat is the first ingredient,

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it was the moment she had been waiting for pretty much her entire life and finally, this week, 65 years later, with the

help of "vanity fair," caitlyn jenner shocked the world. until this past year, caitlyn bruce jenner. he was an actor, author posing on the cover of "playgirl" and a father and husband. for all these years no one would have guessed underneath that was an entirely different person, a woman aching to come out. bruce waited until the middle of the night when he thought everyone was asleep would put on make-up and heels and walk in the dark so for a few moments, he would feel alive as the person he was. >> i found out when he did his appearances, that he would get dressed and walk the lobby of his hotel. because he felt so good that he could do that and no one knew it was him. i remember i would be so scared what if someone catches him? >> i was going to get water

downstairs at 4:00 a.m. i woke up to him getting water and i walked down the stairs and came to the kitchen, got my water, he was coming down and i saw him, i was coming from the kitchen. thank god he turned right and went through the middle of the stairs instead of turning left, because we would have bumped into each other. he walked through the middle and i ran up the stairs quietly and went to bed. >> can you imagine feeling so out of your body feeling so ashamed how people might respond to the real you that you have to live a complete lie? i honestly cannot imagine how horrible that would be. but according to some estimates, there are 700,000 people in the country that know exactly what that's like and there are 9 million gay and lesbian people that have had their own difficult journey coming out. it's hard enough to accept ourselves in this crazy world, but on top of that having to convince your friend and family to also accept you? that has to be one of the most challenging things for anyone to ever go through.

people ask me all the time as someone who grew up republican in a mormon family how have you been able to so accepting to the lgbt community, isn't that frowned upon? i don't have a perfect answer but i can't imagine approaching life any other way. isn't that what it means to love? who are we to judge others for being who they are? we have our own story to tell and own struggles. even it looks like it's perfect on the outside, how often people tuck them away deep down inside afraid of how others might judge them. it's somewhat ironic caitlyn jenner, from potentially the most superficial family is teaching how to be real and life not on the surface but who we are underneath it all. i hope caitlyn's story pushes us all to be more accepting and encourages out there to come out. i hope they take that jump. so caitlyn i congratulate you. thank you for letting me and the

rest of the world for taking part in this journey with you. have a great day. "now with alex wagner" starts right now. rick perry delivers yet another oops moment. a former top official vows to spill an avalanche of secrets. and the duggars address the molestation scandal. any minute we expect to hear from boston terror suspect, usaamah rahim. this is june 4 on "now." we wait a press conference from the boston terror suspect shot dead by fbi agents on tuesday. we'll bring you those remarks live when we get them. according to law enforcement officers rahim, under 24 hour surveillance since late may, killed police officers. david wright, a another suspect,

faces federal conspiracy charges. rahim also discussed fantasies to behead pamela geller. geller is the blogger best known for anti-islam activism and support for cartoon depictions of the prophet mohammed. geller responded to the alleged threat this morning. >> have you thought, maybe i went too far? this wasn't worth it. i'm going to change how i do what i do now. >> drawing a cartoon, an innocuous cartoon, warrants chopping my head off? that's too far? i just don't understand this. they're going to come for you too, chris. they're coming for everybody. >> joining me by phone is senior writer from boston.com hilary sergeant. thank you for hopping on the phone. i know the press conference is to start any minute now. what do we expect to hear from the family today? >> i don't think we have a great