e necessary to quickly make the room safe and make sure that it's safe for all of us and they did that quickly and now we're ready to restart. >> and that was not the only incident in washington this afternoon. a tsa hearing on capitol hill was also cleared out for another called in bomb threat. that also has been given the all-clear. nbc's kelly o'donnell covers both the white house and the hill. what do we know about the tlet at this point? >> reporter: authorities in both locations have said all clear. and that's the term used when they have done their due diligence. they brought in bomb-sniffing dogs personnel from the secret service at the white house and u.s. capitol police here at the capitol and they checked out these threats and fairly quickly determined there was no reason to be alarmed. the larger issue is who's behind it and is it coordinated and intentional to have two high profile news events interrupted.

the hearing under way earlier today about the tsa talking about issues there. that was abrupt. it was ended, the witnesses left. the senators went on about their day and an area of the office building adjacent to the u.s. capitol where this was going on was shut down for a period of time. and then we saw what unfolded at the white house. now, some of the question that is are going to josh'reness. on the other side of the door behind where the lectern is the president sometimes appears or the press secretary, there are offices there and just around the corner is the oval office where the president works and the residence is just on the other side behind the back row of cameras some distance abay. no one was evacuated. only reporters and camera personnel were sent outside of the briefing room.

josherness described being in his own office and then went to the old eisenhower office building. and then property of the networks, the cameras fixed were covered far time. the lenses covered during part of the sweep. typically that would not be done where a government employee presumably would cover the camera lens bebelonging to an independent news organization. so those were some of the questions. if it was a great concern, why was the president not moved? why were other white house staff not moved and only the media moved aside? those are the sort of questions being fleshed out there. josh earnest did what they felt was appropriate under the circumstances and quickly resolved as we saw. no bomb. just a telephonic threat is the term of art. someone dialed it in and said the briefing room. someone dialed in and said the

dirksen office building at the u.s. capitol business involved. is something else going on? we don't know. but it certainly stopped some of official washington and got allot of attention i dine ed. thank you so much for that update and also breaking this hour the man who was once two steps away from being president has just stepped into federal court to answer to some very serious charges. former republican house speaker dennis hastert is accused of evading banking rules and lying to the fbi about it. the cash was allegedly used as hush money to conceal past misconduct from 30-plus years ago with someone identified in documents as individual "a." this is the first time we have seen hastert since the indictment of the last month. law enforcement officials have confirmed to nbc news that the past misconduct was sexual in nature and involved a male student at the school where hastert taught and worked as a wrestling coach.

it is important to note here that hastert not charged with sexual abuse or anything to do with that actual alleged misconduct. the statute of limitations passed on that. some experts are saying that hastert is likely to make a deal here to keep the details of that past misconduct from being revealed in trial. today we are expecting a brief arraignment in chicago's federal court and main thing to learn if he pleads guilty or not. u.s. marshals are expected to process the former speaker. when that is done hastert is expected to be released. but we have a ton to cover before any of that happened so let's bring in adam reece outside the courthouse. what can we expect? >> reporter: good afternoon. the hearing has begun. they have just been called to order. we expect it to be a very short hearing. reading the charges to mr. hastert, he'll enter a plea. likely not guilty and set a date for another hearing. there will be some discussion about discovery going forward.

and then he'll likely be processed if he wasn't already processed before. arrived about an hour early and possible he had the fingerprints and mug shot taken early and then released. he arrived as i said about an hour and 15 minutes early to a crush of media. he entered the building just like anybody else would. he went through the metal detector. put the belongings through the x-ray machine and then wanded up and upstairs and a normal process for an arraignment and very unusual situation considering who it is that's being arraigned. >> thank you for that report and bring in pete williams. pete, what can we expect next here? >> reporter: well, just a couple of notes. first of all, according to our folks in the courtroom, this hearing is moving very fast. the former speaker had -- his lawyer already entered not guilty pleas for him on both accounts and to be expected. the lawyers, dennis hastert

apparently has some guns on the property. sometimes if a person is charged with a felony there's a restriction on firearms. the lawyer has asked that he be allowed a little more time to get the guns off his property. two extra weeks. the judge apparently allowed that. bond is set at $4,500 which is what it was originally. so it will probably be released on his own recognizance. the judge may or may not set a detention hearing. doesn't sound like he'll do that. the next thing for the judge to set a trial date and then things will -- all the pretrial motions and all of the thing that is normally go on before a trial. so that at the end of today, the judge may set a trial date or at least set a scheduling hearing date at which a trial date would be set. >> and pete when you look at -- at a trial like this given what we know at this time would you

expect the defense lawyers to be focused exclusively on beating these two federal charges or disclose or getting into some of the underlying other allegations which, of course are not what he's being charged with and according to what we know seems like it's great embarrassment to him. >> i'm sure that's a big factor for the defense and, of course we can't rule out the possibility that his lawyer may try to negotiate a plea for the government so there's never a trial here. as a practical matter as you understand, ari, no matter what happens from here on stuff is going to come out that they don't want to come out. even if there's a guilty plea there will be court documents that will spell out what the government would have proven had it gone to trial. but, of course those charges are confined to the improper reports of cash transactions and lying to the fbi but this's still leaving a fair amount of

discretion for what the government would ultimately say. just another quick note from the folks in the courtroom. normally the lawyer speaks for the client enters the plea but the judge has to satisfy himself that the defendant understands the plea and according to our folks in the courtroom, dennis hastert was asked if he understands the charges and whispered, yes. and hastert was asked if that's his signature on the indict and must have nodded yes and not spoken to that. >> pete there was some speculation today that the prosecution would show its hand a little bit and disclose more of the kind of information you were just talking about that we may hear later on but was there any of that in the courtroom today or -- >> no. apparently not. frankly, i don't think that was very likely here. what you often have happen in these cases where nothing is known about a case until the defendant is indicted and they appear in court, the government will often cite additional

evidence or say how serious the crime is in order to get restriction on pretrial release, in order to speak a very high bail or to ask that the deft be confined in jail until the trial 689 you know, this is not the case here. so, it's not surprising that the prosecutors didn't apparently spell out much more about their case. >> all right. pete williams thank you so much for. we really appreciate it. and for more on the political and legal aspects of this indictment, let's bring in msnbc analyst howard feinman and also defense attorney karen desoto, also a former prosecutor. welcome to both of you. >> hi there. >> karen, wanted to start with you. reaction to what we're just learning. dennis hastert pleading not guilty on all the charges. is that a surprise at snaul. >> no of course not. this is -- you waive reading of the indictment. enter a not guilty plea and then discovery or trying to hide all of the facts about this sexual

abuse allegations because that seems to be the crux at this case whether there was extortion involved, who the individual is and detailings don't have to do with the charges in the sense that the charges are not as serious as these underlying salacious sexual details. >> absolutely. and will those other details, will those other things he's not being charged for somehow make the way into it. chicago tribune write federal prosecutors likely bring out details of the molestation of the individuals at trial to prove the charge that hastert lied to the fbi about the bank -- >> on so many rules would be broken if it didn't come in meaning bias and motive is also relative and bias and motive on both parties here. both the person who may have extorted and hastert. >> how come individual "a" is

not charged with extortion. >> may have been worked out a deal. >> we don't know based on what the fibl said whether it's extortion or an agreement, agreements can be voluntary, less than voluntary. extortion is another level. howard, we have talked a lot in covering this about the legal statute of limitations on the underlying crimes. the state crimes. not the fed. it's too old to prosecute it. speak to us politically about a statute of limitations here for the republican party. has dennis hastert been out of the spotlight long enough or a problem here given that the republicans made him a top guy at one point? >> yeah. i don't think the sta chult oftute of limitations excused him sort to speak in the political arena exactly. first of all, as you say, he was speaker. there's still the hastert rule

by which the house republicans are supposed to conduct their business and deciding what goes to the floor and also the question of denny hastert's friends and associates and staffers on the hill and the question of whether some of them may have had some inkling of this whether he may have treated some people differently because of his own experiences and so forth. i mean there are questions asked about that for quite sometime. and as the details come out, about the behavior the underlying behavior that he was paying money to hide allegedly, i think there's still going to be some focus on that. is it a core issue in the 2016 campaign? no. is it something that's going to dominate the headlines here? no. but is it something that other republicans on the hill are going to have to deal with to some extent? i think so. >> karen, back to hastert himself, pete just reported that he spoke a little bit in court

whispered. some have wondered whether his silence since the indictment was a good idea or a bad idea. i thought it would be useful for people to hear why it seems to me a lot of lawyers would advise him to stay as quiet as possible under these circumstances. >> the first thing you always say, even somebody when's a very seasoned politician such as hastert who may think that he can handle the press and handle all of the questions, you always tell them to keep their mouth shut because usually opening their mouth they stick their foot in it or say something they can't take back an you keep your client to remain silent and if they don't sometimes i'll say, if you don't i will not be your attorney. >> howard ari asking you about the impact on the republican party. i have to think, though, for a lot of americans they look at this with dennis hastert and feeds into the larger perception that congress and washington is broken and corrupt. i mean this is an institution already with dismal approval ratings and don't they just sort of lump it into that bucket?

>> yeah. i think so. i think that's right and also true the republicans in congress right now and i think you are right. overall it's hard to imagine public respect for congress being any lower. it's practically at zero at this point. and i do think it feeds the general notion that washington is full of people, the hill is full of people who cut corners, sank moan you and different in their own lives and talk about passing laws and don't follow the laws that they enact. i think absolutely. >> or retire and get jobs being a lobbyist. >> let's put -- >> let's push back on that idea howard. >> the argument to be fair to dennis hastert, we haven't heard from his side but the argument one to hear from them presumably being, look whatever he worked out with that individual between them. private exchange of funds and

wasn't itself illegal. the way he was moving the law around evading under the federal banking rules basically is obscure and only second one on his case. in other words, whatever happened that we don't know the counter argument here would be from the hastert folks, hey, this is the kind of thing that wouldn't have been -- he wouldn't have been in trouble for but for the fbi made him a priority because he's a political elite. >> i actually don't think the business about not being allowed to withdraw more than $10,000 from your bank account without notification is that trivial or unknown. i think it's pretty well-known. that's number one. number two, as somebody else was saying up there, the pace of his activity as a lobbyist almost frantic way in the last few years he was going around trying to shovel in as much money as possible and we know allegedly to pay off somebody who he

either made a voluntary or not voluntary, you know, deal with or not. that adds to the whole picture that krsystal was asking about concerning the way washington operates. shovels in the money for another purpose and i think the more that's looked at a the more of his tick tock of story over four years comes out, the more sadly it may be seen as just another story of many of corruption in washington. >> karen, we are just getting a note here that the judge right now in court is revealing contributions he made to hastert saying he never met him and friends with his son and also revealing some connections that he has with the defense attorney. what does that tell you? >> well i mean the connections obviously you are at the early stages and anybody has a conflict if there's what we call an appearance of improprietary, a judge can't sit on the case and campaign

donations and many states you -- it's judges and also politicians are involved in campaign contributions and that goes back and forth, especially with the attorneys and you have a right to know and disclose that information because you can't sit on a case if that's the issue. >> would you think that -- let's actually stick with this karen and howard and let's bring in lynn sweet of the chicago sun times. lynn certainly a long history in chicago of politicians taking the fall. what do you make of what we have learned today of speaker dennis has snert. >> let's quickly pick up on the point of the judge and that is he does have a background of political contributions to republicans and, you know his brother is the top republican in the illinois house. he ran for senate against dirk durbin a few years ago. well supported by senator john mccain. tom did you recollecten, endurkin i was betting that

he would have to say something about the relationship and the two campaign contributions he gave to hastert. now, so far, everything that happened i think is just predictable. may i comment on the appearance of hastert? i've never seen him so stooped and looking, you know looking as he probably has, the weight of the world on his shoulders but the physical appearance how aged he looks and stooped shouldered is amazing. >> let's go back. chicago, illinois. illinois politicians have been going to prison for years. four of those -- >> yes. >> four of the last eight governors including blagojevich and ryan. why so many illinois politicians ending up in the slammer? >> well everyone you mentioned with the mention of hastert got in trouble more what they did when they were in office. and why so many?

i've spent my career trying to figure out what one generation of politicians doesn't learn from the people who proceeded them. i mean right now, there's a grand jury investigating now former congressman aaron shuck. former congressman jesse jackson in the halfway house in baltimore. his wife of former alderman ready to go to prison. the most current crop we have. so i don't know. obviously doesn't speak well of illinois and what is remarkable about this case is that the -- the sensational aspect of this the alleged sexual misconduct happened before denny hastert ever became a politician. >> right. yeah, i think that's a fair point. based on what we know seems much more a case of entered politics with a problematic past. rather than someone who entered politics and then decided to find a corrupting life style. on the legal piece, we can report now that the judge asked specifically whether hastert would arrange to surrender his

passport. of course, which relates to being a flight risk and the lawyer said they have done that. karen, walk us through the legal response to what lynn was just outlining. okay. if you have a judge, the average person says the judge gave money to the defendant before him and ties to the political structure in the state that has active interest here. can't you get another judge? walk us through how this works and either side could request that. >> right. if you did find somebody who gave campaign contribution that's a conflict an appearance of improprietary and you would have to step down. >> they're saying past donations to hastert of a small amount. >> i believe that's an appearance of improprietary is a conflict. >> if the feds cared about that what would they do? >> give it to another judge. very easy. there's lots of judges.

an aperson, something to taint the proceedings, it is passed to the next young in line. that's fine. >> totally agree. howard, go back to the issue of lobbying because, surely it is not illegal for hastert to have all the money that he has. >> no. >> but it does speak to something troubling to a lot of folks. he has so much money because lobbyists make so much money allowing them to have an outsized impact on the process and situation where we have half of our senators and almost half of the representatives going into lobbying do we have a much larger problem? these folks making so much money. >> well, i think the answer to that is yes on the theoretical and action level. we used to think as members, as public servants that phrase is almost quaint to utter it now. public servants. didn't always stay in washington

and usually didn't after their time of service is over. they would go back to where they came from because serving here in washington was a pretty much of a temporary thing. now people come here it seems specifically with the purpose of making money. that they may come to congress with the plan of only spending a few terms there and then turning their career in congress into a money-making proposition. that's not usually the way it's been. but it's now almost the default setting it seems because there's so much money here. there's so many opportunities to play the role of influence peddler. of connecter of dots that it's almost impossible for these people to resist. the amount of money flooding washington is on scene. we're drowning in it. everybody's trying to influence the congress and the administration and especially the congress and pair dox cli everybody calls gridlocked. can't get anything done.

a lot of money goes to preventing things from happening. >> sure. >> so the other paradox and come here to legislate and get things done and set the ship of state in the right direction. but then they spend the rest of their time immobilizing the institution they to used to serve in. that's a huge problem here and den nis hastert is only one of a thousand, many thousand examples of it. >> yeah. you talk about that money which dovetails of reporting earlier and the judge given money to hastert. and, lynn, i want to bring you back in. >> seems appropriate in this case. >> on theme. lynn, you know as we're discussing this, we are getting more reports of the courtroom, the hearing just ended and we can report for the first time that the judge spoke directly to this issue saying he doesn't himself believe that the standard for disqualification is met and going to leave open the issue until june 11th. both parties in the case can meet, discuss and decide on that and it's certainly possible,

lynn, that the parties push to have the judge removed as bias. that's new information. give us more context on this judge as you were telling us and anything else you think will happen here on that issue. >> i think the judge was very savvy in acknowledging this putting it up front and now he's put the onus on the parties if the prosecutors or defense are v a problem. it's theirs to say. now, what the -- >> onus is supposed to be on the judge, though. >> right. i was just making that point. >> go ahead, lynn. >> you made my point. interesting, isn't it, he said you know let me know if you have a problem. i actually think that if you have -- given who his brother is and given those two direct campaign donations, you know i don't know what more you need just to say there's other judges that sit in the northern district of illinois and quickly on this idea that hastert not only made a lot of money but here's another point. in 2010 when the pressure came on him, when this individual "a"

said i want money, almost like hastert able to turn an spigot to clank up the activities and get more money. when you talk about how it used to be in the ode days i gave myself a break from always watching news on tv yesterday and caught the very end of the man who shot liberty va lance and everyone thinks of jimmy stewart and other movies. he came back from washington. he went back to his hometown. never happens now. rarely happens. if they come back they set up lobbying and not only the members but their staff sets up lobbying, goes into lobbying too. we see it all the times. >> americans would like to have access to that spigot. thank you so much for your insights today. >> thank you. up next our other breaking story this afternoon. a lot going on. the search for any new clues in that daring prison break. two killers on the run. who police are interviewing now

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developing right now, we're in day four of the massive manhunt for two convicted murderers who have sparked an international pursuit. the new york state police joined the search and will update us on the progress shortly and scouring the woods some 50 miles from the maximum security prison where convicts richard matt and david suite escaped. police are investigating whether this could have been an inside job. new york state police tell nbc news a female prison worker identified as joyce mitchell had contact with both prisoners and is now being questioned. and joining us now is someone who has intimate knowledge of inside the prison former inmate

marty tancliff. thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> our understanding is two inmates somehow managed to be secured in an honor block. which surely gave them some special privileges. can you speak to that? >> i don't think being placed in honor block would have any benefit to them. honor block is an area where individuals who have remained disciplinary free for a period of time who have a job, make an application. in some facilities the application process could be anywhere from a year to two years. what i think benefits the individuals is whatever job they had in the facility, not so much their housing location. >> elaborate on that. what kind of jobs what do you think could have helped them? >> sure. a job such as a plumber or a mason or electrician given them access to tools and the catwalk and really the exit point. >> and figured the layout and

the structure of the building potentially. >> potentially. i mean i would be more inclined to think somebody able to give them some information about the structure of the steam pipes, which steam pipe to go out of. where the steam pipe would really exit from and not gain inside the facility. >> you know, just before we go too far, you are not just an inmate but you have gotten through college and a law school and about to take the bar and you have done great things with the seven years since you have been out. but talk to me about the escapee mind-set. right? i mean surely not all the guys in prison are thinking about, you know how they can escape. so the ones who actually go through it the ones that do it is there something unique about them? are they the smarter ones or the crazier ones? >> i think anybody who actually tries to implement an escape has a lot of time on their hands, has a lot of motivation and has a lot of intelligence and connections and the desire and

really you know expose themselves to the risk of being caught n. this situation, their planning was probably months in the works. and, you know i have said this from all along that really probably narrow the time frame down of when the kugt of the pipes was down because of where it was done in a cat walk area behind the kreels scells and one of the access points was a steam pipe. if the steam pipe functioning and narrow it down saying when's the heating system shut off and narrow it down and you can narrow down the time of when it was cut and who had access to the catwalk by locking at potential work orders. you know? did plumbers go back there? and then you could figure out who went back there and the tools and narrow down the time frame of when the damage or the kind of the pipes were cut or the wall was cut because you

also have to look at that the catwalk an area behind cells and supposed to be regularly inspected and individuals that do something like this run the risk of getting caught. so in my opinion, the cutting of the back of their cell probably the last thing that would have been cut because it's directly linked to them. >> sense you're shocked they got out? >> yes because really if the proper protocols put in place, i don't think how this could have happened far number of reasons because if there's regular inspections done when i was there and noticed from a -- behind the cell inspection of the cells or doing an institutional frisk of the cells, plus when the individuals got out on to the street i would think that the officers that were in the towers should have noticed it. i don't know if clinton correctional facility has cameras on the outside but something to look at. >> i'm just trying to think this

through. power tools that are noisy. cutting a hole inside the cell. surely other cellmates must have known what was going on and are you surprised they didn't say anything? >> i'm not surprised because in my opinion based on living in the institution, this is all done during the daytime. when a majority of the inmates are out and about. done during the daytime of construction done at the facility. other repairs are being done and nobody would notice. >> you don't think the other inmates knew? >> no. >> speak to the culture because if an inmate knows another in inmate in the process of escaping he won't say anything. >> not. not unless he wants to be labeled as a rat, snitch informant. he will have the label throughout the rest of the incarceration an you have to realize one point i heard that how come the neighbors didn't hear about it? first of all, two of them neighbors themselves and if their cells were cut in the

daytime, their other two neighbors may not have been around and if the four of those cells were unoccupied in the daytime, nobody heard anything or paid attention to it or noticed something going on. >> i want to ask about the prisoner guard relationship and how it could be possible not necessarily with guards in this case but with other employees within the prison what would motivate them to help these two convicted murderers escape this prison? why? >> i can't fathom any reason. clinton correctional facility is the largest employer in clinton county since the military base shut down. when you get to clinton as an inmate you get a welcome to clinton speech which essentially is if we're not brother or sister, husband, wife cousin we're related somehow. you mess with one of us you mess with all of us. so even the civilians are related and it's such a small community. everybody knows everybody. you know published reports said that this woman somehow involved. i don't see why she would risk

her job, her marriage incarceration incarceration. >> is it possible that maybe there was some love going on? obviously, we don't know about this specific situation. is it unheard of -- >> something you witnessed? >> contractors or officials to have a relationship? >> i never witnessed anything like that. what i witnessed was is that when inmates worked closely with officers or civilians, over years, you developed a relationship. a working relationship. i'm not saying it's friendship. it's a working relationship. mutual level of respect. mutual level of understanding. i never saw officers cross a line that would really risk them losing their job and potentially being incarcerated other than assault on staff. i would never -- never saw them bring something in. give it to an inmate and lose their job for. >> so what about the power tools? how in the world would they be able to have these power tools and keep them hidden and not have them be discovered? >> that's the assumption is that

they were kept hidden. the jail has power tools throughout it for machine shops, plumbers to use. so if during the day, let's say that a pipe behind the cells had to be cut, one of the plumbers, ooetder an inmate plumber or some other plumber could have required the tools and requested tool from the area where they're kept and brought them back. so if these inmates at some point were a plumber, they could have had access to the tools throughout the day. signed out to them and returned back several hours later. so if when you hear about there's no loss of tools, doesn't shock me. because all the tools utilized in the institution were accounted for at the end of each day and so if this escape plot was implemented over a period of time they could have done once a week once every two weeks, you know it didn't have to be done in a 24-hour period. >> people think about maximum security prison they think, well surely, that would be hell. the worst place in the world to

be. was that your experience? is that how you would characterize it? >> horrendous place where guilty and innocent people are. tragically, we have learned over the last few years incarcerate innocent people and for the innocent it really is the worst place you can be because it's an environment you should never be in. but it is what you make of it. for me i was given advice very early on to get a good job, get a good housing location and strive to get out. and if you have a good job, a lot of times a good job lends you in a good housing location and really some people do that. they get to the metal shop or the tailor shop. you know? everybody's in the tailor shop could be in the same gallery together and they have a like-minded set. >> interesting. marty, best of luck on the bar exam. >> thank you. coming up we'll cycle back to the breaking news story we started the hour with. the white house briefing room cleared after a bomb threat was called in and get the latest

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song: rachel platten "fight song" ♪ two million, four hundred thirty-four thousand three hundred eleven people in this city. and only one me. ♪ i'll take those odds. ♪ be unstoppable. the all-new 2015 ford edge. an update now on the breaking news from the white house, the press briefing has now concluded after it was delayed for a bomb threat. nbc's peter alexander was there for all of it. peter, what can you tell us? >> reporter: yeah this was an unprecedented moment. we were siting here in the white house briefing room for what is each day the televised live

daily briefing with the white house press secretary josh earnest and happened where two secret service agents entered the room as you witnessed here live on msnbc. they asked everybody to evacuate. as a result of what we later learned from the secret service was a phoned in bomb threat to washington, d.c.'s metropolitan police department. all the reporters, 49 seats here, everybody here as well as the cameras we were all evacuated to the adjacent building eisenhower executive office building. josh earnest and two staffers ss evacuated from this room. they refer to the lower press area, the folks in that area evacuated upstairs and most importantly, the president nor his family impacted in any way by what took place here. we're still trying to find out where the president was at the time of the evacuation that happened here. in all -- in the two and a half years i have been here and the year that is many colleagues worked here the first time they

experienced an evacuation in this room. the camera that is are in this room, the same crams broadcast live from and this camera tilted up when we returned. we believe it was by the secret service officers, the uniformed officers sweeping the area. likely so that anybody who may have been responsible for a threat wouldn't see what that search process physically welcomed like. but that was our experience. just about an hour and a half ago now and as you noted came on the same day as a separate threat on capitol hill that took place in a tsa hearing. at this point, it's unclear whether either of those threats was related to the other. >> very glad that you and everyone else are safe and sound. thank you so much. as peter mentioned, president obama was at the white house during that scare but was not evacuated and just gak from the g7 and these comments got a lot of attention. >> we want to get more iraqi security forces trained, fresh, well equipped and focused.

we don't yet have a complete strategy because it requires commitments on the part of the iraqis, as well about how recruitment takes place, how that training takes place and so the details of that are not yet worked out. >> no complete strategy yet. despite repeated requests for more arms and training by iraq's president as iraqi troops lose ground to isis and when it comes to equipping the foreign fighters things are never quite so simple or too simple a random stoner can do it. in 2007 three 20 something stoners from florida landed a $300 million contract with the pentagon to supply the afghan army with ammunition. beating out some massive international corporations for that business. what followed was like something out of a movie complete with blackmail decades old illegal chinese ammo and murder.

no wonder hollywood brings the tale to the big screen with jonah hill and more on that later but for now the new book "arms and the dudes" recounts the true story of the three unlikely arms dealers and how the u.s. really arms its allies and joining us now is "the new york times" best selling author guy lawson. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> my first question is what? how did this happen? >> it was reported that they were the sleazy kids who defrauded the pentagon and sent faulty ammunition to afghanistan and something didn't ring true to me. i didn't know anything about it but decided to go deep into reporting it and talk to the kads and get their side of the story and what i discovered is in fact the pentagon set out to ship as much cheap and nasty ammunition as they could find using private contractors and wouldn't have to do the dirty work and then "the new york times" came along and sort of

used the kids as fall guys. >> how did the kids actually go about securing this $300 million contract? >> well, first, they mastered the online bidding process. anybody can bid. you're qualified and bid for the contracts. they were really really smart. they were capable. they were both orthodox jews so they were used to reading arcane documents and didn't get bored. and then they were able to get connected with some really serious warlord-type figures in the balkans. >> after the question what then the question who. tell us about who the dudes actually were. >> they were three buddies, like beach buddies. wake an bake stoners. one amazingly talented guy, bidding online. like a computer genius and hacker and brought two buddies on and went on an amazing adventure a. >> maizing quote from the beginning of the book writing the government of the united states had turned itself into

the biggest gunrunning organization on the planet as the pentagon desperately tried to stand up new armies in kabul and baghdad, paying billions to acquire array of weapons. it made little attempt to vet the business partners and turned a blind eye to rampant fraud, sometimes with murderous consequences. is the american government putting arms and guns into the world in a responsible and thoughtful way? >> absolutely not. they couldn't be more irresponsible. to this day no one's taken responsible for the policy and discussed it. you had the segment of isis. where are they getting the soviet yet bloc weapons from? they're making deals with gunrunners in the balkans. drug cartels and getting the same weapons proliferating into the countries and enriching those people and enabling the business and basically using the

middlemen for plausible deniblt and the policy unreported. the pentagon gets away with it. none of the beat reporters are covering it. as far as i can tell the first serious attempt to reveal what's really going on. >> based on your reporting you characterized the government of willful ignorance. suspecting and not looking into it. sort of plugging their ears and eyes and we don't want to know. is that accurate first of all? and what's your evidence for that claim? >> well i mean there's no question whether where these weapons exist. they're in the balkans. possessed by these arms companies run by people on the state department's watch list. so the pentagon didn't want to follow the state department protocols, human rights protocols. they created their own law and exempted themselves from the law and truly lawless. not just willfully negligent but lawless. >> but the government did not force these boys to do this.

right? >> no. >> and they pleaded guilty at trial so surely they also were deeply come policelis police sit in this behavior. >> getting rich on the edge of what is ethical for sure. but the idea that this was the worst fraud and that these kids were fooling the pentagon and the "new york times" came in and revealed this big scandal when in fact it was the business model. the business model was get private contractors to do your dirty work. this is very similar to lindey english being behind the torture policy. really? >> why did he even think let's get a d.o.d. contract? >> his uncle has domestic arms company and he was a ninth grade drop out working for his uncle and he gets online and he sees this magical mystery king democrat of the department of defense contracts. he looked at it and saw -- >> dollar signs. >> and the path to a life story

of being a gun runner and tough legend. >> so when you say the pept began is law last what do you mean? >> it means they interpret to mean any other law. this law is self contained. this is no congressional oversight, no press on this beat. have you ever heard of this before? >> not before reading about your book and about these guys. so nothing has changed since these three guys were caught they haven't changed their policy procedure, there isn't increased oversight? >> absolutely not. and not only is it not changed, you're seeing it in the news and you don't know what is behind the you news. >> so let's talk about the movie. jonah jonah hill, very exciting.you news. >> so let's talk about the movie. jonah hill, very exciting. >> miles teller is in it as well. it looks to be a dark comedy. i visited the set over the

spring break with with my kids. we had a micenice time. i hope people will read the book of course because the book has serious reporting to it also i like to think a fun read. but, yeah the movie is a cool thing. >> will you be involved with the movie at all? >> no. >> they don't care what the writer has to say. >> late breaking news. hollywood doesn't care about writers. >> the reporting is incredible. thank you so much for being with us. and now an update on that story that we've been following from mckinney, texas where demonstrators are now calling for the firing of that officer that we all saw on video taking a teen girl to the ground. and then pulling his gun threatening others at a community pool. still not known what happened before that video started rolling. officer eric casebolt remains on administrative leave while the department investigates. time for your entrepreneur of the week. former law enforcement officer

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so a major health scare to tell you about. the government's infectious disease experts are treating a patient when has an extremely contagious case of tuberculosis and she might be exposed hundreds in i said i can't before heading back to the states. >> reporter: at the nih, this is a very serious case.heading back to the states. >> reporter: at the nih, this is a very serious case. she has extensively drug resistant tuberculosis. they believe she traveled from india to chicago and then on two other states. the challenge, to find anyone who had contact with her and

stabilize her. the patient is now in an isolation room here at the nih, only described as a female. while doctors treat this serious case, federal and state health departments are urgently trying to track down hundreds of people who may have been in contact with her in several states. >> just the biggest guns that we have as far as our antibiotics, that's what has to be used in this case. and even when we use those, they're still limited effectiveness with this particular type of tuberculosis xdr. >> reporter: in april, the victim was believed to have traveled from india to chicago o'hare and then spent time in missouri and tennessee before seeking treatment. seven weeks after arriving in the u.s., she was diagnosed with active tb and transferred by air and ground ambulance to the nih. now the cdc and state health departments are trying to contact other passengers on her flight and anyone who might have come in contact with her in at least three states. while the risk is low, health

experts take tb very seriously. >> people who were on that plane with her owe to themselves and their close contacts to be followed up to see whether they're infected. >> reporter: the bacteria can float in the air for several hours. people with lowered immunity especially from hiv, are most at risk. in 2007 the u.s. quarantined an atlanta man who knew he had tb yet flew to canada and then drove into the u.s. to evade authorities. now this morning a tb case here at the nih. as for this patient now with the nih, they say they could be treating her for bikes, months, even years. the challenge is to figure out which drugs she is and is not resistant to so this they can hopefully come up with a course that work on her. but it has a rather low cure rate. they do insist the risk to the

general public is very low, they're most concerned about people who are most immune compromised and that may have been in close contact with her. back to you. >> tom, thanks. that does it for the cycle. thanks for watching. "now" with alex wagner starts now.

hundreds of texans protest a white police officer who drew his guns at a pool party. two are still on the law and president obama dwebds hisefends his health care law. but first, dennis hastert appeared in court. dennis hastert comes out of hiding.