show." "politics nation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. tonight on "politics nation," the moral case for obama care. president obama passionately defending his signature law slamming republicans for putting people over politics. also, dennis hastert in court. the former house speaker facing abuse allegations and pleading not guilty to federal charges. and big questions about those bomb threats in washington. with security scares at the white house and on capitol hill. how do you spot a hoax from the real thing? welcome to "politics nation." i'm live tonight from montgomery alabama. we start tonight with health care, which is not an issue like most other issues in washington.

it's not like taxes or regulations. it's people's health. it's life or death. it's not a political issue. it's a moral issue. it goes back to the good samaritan in the bible. will you help your fellow human beings when they need it most? and that's what president obama was talking about today as we wait for a major supreme court ruling on the law's future the president talked about the human side of this issue. >> america is not a place where we simply turn away from the sick. or turn our backs on the tired, the poor the huddled masses. it is a place sustained by the idea i am my brother's keeper i am my sister's keeper that we have an obligation to put ourselves in our neighbor's shoes and see each other's common humanity. and so after a century of talk after decades of trying after a

year of sustained debate we finally made health care reform a reality here in america. >> before the affordable care act, millions of people were one illness away from losing everything. it wasn't bad politically. it was bad, it was reprehensible morally. and president obama talked about how important it was to him personally to fix that system. >> i was reminded of the fear that michelle and i felt when sasha was a few months old and we had to race to the hospital and the emergency room learning that she had meningitis that we caught only because we had a wonderful pediatrician and regular care. never felt so scared or helpless in my life. we were fortunate enough to have

good health insurance. i remember looking around at that emergency room and thinking what about the parents who aren't that lucky? >> but thanks to the president, a lot more people are that lucky today. more than 16 million uninsured americans have gained coverage because of the health care law, but republicans still want to take it all away. their lawsuit jeopardizes coverage for residents of 34 states more than 6 million people can lose their insurance and their peace of mind as well. simply because republicans won't admit this law does the right thing. but as we keep fighting to protect it we've also got to remember this law is about more than numbers. it's about real people. >> there are also outcomes that are harder to calculate. in the tally of pain and tragedy

and bankruptcies that have been averted, but also in the security of a parent who can afford to take her kid to the doctor or the dignity of a grandfather who can get the preventive care that he needs. five years in what we are talking about is no longer just a law, it's no longer just a theory. this isn't even just about the affordable care act or obama care. this isn't about myths or rumors that folks try to sustain. there's a reality that people on the ground day to day are experiencing. their lives are better. >> lives are better because of this law. and those who oppose it have a moral obligation to explain how they justify taking health care away from millions of people. joining me now are dana milbank and clarence page. thank you both for being here. >> thank you, reverend. >> clarence is it smart for the

president to frame health care as a moral issue? >> i think it's smart. it's also a subtle shift in tactics. or shift in argument. in the past he's put more of the emphasis on cost and cost savings and general coverage. now he's talking about the very fact that this is part of the social contract. he's almost saying it would be un-american to oppose the idea of health care for everybody. he's going back to making a hundred-year argument going back to 1912 at least when teddy roosevelt promised the need for health coverage across the country and the progressive movement at that time was pushing for it. of course harry truman lbj. you can go right up to the present day and look at various presidents trying to get what president obama has been able to achieve with the affordable care act. this is a historical argument he's making saying this gets right to the very core of our

being as a people in this country. >> you know, dana from the beginning, i saw it more and more as a moral issue basically because the people i would encounter wherever i would travel that would come up to me and say how it clearly was the thing that helped in some cases save their lives. i've had people come on this show and say that. but i've had countless people stop me on the road in airports, in churches in rallies telling me stories and about their kids who now can be ensured. so i always thought of on a moral level and dealt with the human factor that the president raised today. but as he was speaking -- you were there -- was he also speaking to the conservative justices on the supreme court? >> i think he was. some time in the next 21 days we're going to have this decision. let's face it if it's a hostile

decision, this could be the end of obama care. as you said, 6 or 7 million people would stand to lose the insurance that they've gained but it goes beyond that. it disrupts the entire market and basically throws all of obama care into peril. so i think the president is right to make this not just an economic issue but a moral one, but even if you disagreed back in 2010 about was this the best way to get health care to the greatest number of people, in a way it doesn't matter now because if it all gets taken away it's replaced by nothing. the situation is far worse and far more desperate than it was in the first case and you are going to have all kinds of people with uncertainty and chaos and once again not knowing whether they're going to be able to get medical care in america. >> clarence this is a real threat even though it's based on just some language and not

putting in federal where you put in state, but what frightens a lot of people and frightens me is the fact that the court even agreed to hear it raises the heightened possibility they may actually do this. and when you think again of the people it affects, forget the partisan politics forget whether you agreed with it in 2010, the people who have been saved and benefited by it. the president talked about that today. let me share you an example that he used of a personal story someone gave him. >> in reality, there are parents in texas whose autistic son couldn't speak. even with health insurance, they struggled to pay for his treatment. but health reform meant they could buy an affordable secondary plan this covered therapy for their son. and today that little boy can tell his parents that he loves them. that's the reality. >> clarence are we going to get to a point where everyone knows

someone that has a story about how this law helped them? >> that's what the hope has been for the advocates of obama care from the very beginning, but a lot of people were disappointed that president obama didn't make this argument sooner even during the debate back in 2009 when the legislation was being shaped because we're not just talking about numbers here or talking about what's constitutional. we're talking about families. we're talking about human beings and the need out there for people to have health care and the basic notion of whether or not the people ought to have a right to basic health care coverage in this country. we have the worst coverage if you will of the industrialized world. and president obama is emphasizing that there are 16 million people who have coverage that didn't have it before. other people have better coverage whether they realize it or not. these are important arguments to make. also making a reference here that republicans don't have an alternative and the republicans are quietly hoping to lose this

battle rather than be confronted with the need to come up with some kind of a substitute. >> you know dana some republicans are sounding pretty callous about the health care debate. kansas congressman tim buhl's camp is an example. he says only 1.9% of his constituents are receiving obama care subsidies and, quote, i can vote with 98.1%. i usually win the elections that way. he doesn't need the vote from those who it doesn't matter. doesn't that sound heartless? >> talk about moral calculations there, reverend. certainly that can't possibly be true that statistic anyway. it's really extraordinary that the energy still exists to have this repealed because if you look at the american public generally, we've reached a point for the first time really since

this thing was debated where a plurality of the public now has a favorable view of the law. you see that fewer and fewer american, only 5% of americans now think that health care is the major problem facing this country. it was more than 25% of americans said so before this law was put in place. so in a way, that's saying this law has been accepted by the country. it is now, as the president said part of the -- today part of the fabric of america, and it really seems extraordinary, in fact basically impossible to believe that the supreme court would now tear that fabric with nothing to replace it. >> and you know clarence this is the president's signature piece of legislation, but the irony of this is look who it is helping when you talk about it from a political standpoint because those that would lose their insurance if the court rules against the federal

subsidies, 61% of the people who would become uninsured are white. 61% live in the south where i am today in alabama. and 81% work full time or part time. doesn't this sound like the people who the republicans like to think of as their base? >> well yeah you know i've said it many times in the past that somehow the issue of poverty got colorized 50 years ago in the mid-1960s during the war on poverty which started out in appalachia with president johnson and poor white folks. by the time the riots and all got going in the later '60s, it suddenly became a black issue. but the fact is then and now, most poor americans are white. the largest group of poor people. and yet there's been an impression given out there that hey, this isn't for you. this is you paying money to help somebody else. and that kind of an idea

floating out there has shaped our policies or shall i say misshapen our politics and we can see it play now in the obama care debate. >> dana milbank and clarence page and, just for clarity, dana milbank would be the one in the big bold bowtie. thank you both for your time. >> thank you for that clarification. breaking news tonight on the police response to that pool party in texas. reports saying the officer involved has resigned. also bomb threats in washington. the white house briefing room and a hearing at the capitol evacuated. where is the investigation? plus former speaker of the house dennis hastert makes first court appearance pleading not dplt guilty. what happens next? and something to make you smile. you'll meet the 6-year-old getting respect and stealing the show.

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so what happens if conservatives get their way and the supreme court strikes down subsidies? do republicans have a backup plan? here's senator mitch mcconnell. >> we'll have a plan that we think makes sense for the american people. >> can you share some of that with us? >> um no. >> okay. we got to ask. >> we'll let you know pending on the outcome of the decision. >> we'll let you know? we'll let you know is his master plan? we'll let you know won't help the millions of people who can lose their insurance. we'll let you know won't help that 55% of americans who want subsidies to remain in place. we'll let you know isn't good

enough. it's cynical. and president obama's calling republicans out on it. >> there's something -- i have to say -- just deeply cynical about the ceaseless, endless partisan attempts to roll back progress. i mean i understood folks being skeptical or worried before the law passed and there wasn't a reality there to examine. but once you see millions of people having health care once you see that all the bad things that were predicted didn't happen, you'd think that it would be time to move on. let's figure out how to make it better. >> joining me now is congresswoman jane schakowsky democrat of illinois. thank you for being here tonight, congresswoman. >> thank you reverend al. thank you. >> senator mcconnell says we'll let you know on health care. what kind of plan is that?

>> well, they've been saying that they would let us know how to repeal and replace obama care for years now. they've never come up with a plan, they don't have a plan. and 6.4 million people right off the bat are going to lose their health insurance. and do you remember reverend al those summer town hall meetings in 2010 when people are screaming about obama care? i think the reverse is going to happen if the supreme court rules to end those subsidies. they're going to have to face the music when they go home. all those people who finally, after years of not being able to get health care because of a pre-existing condition or not being able to afford it they're going to be screaming and yelling at the republicans. so you know be careful what you wish for, i say to the republicans. because if they get it they're going to be very sorry. >> and let me tell you what's interesting about what you just said. senator john barrasso, he accused the obama administration

of not having a backup plan or plan b if the supreme court rules against them. >> that's funny. >> listen to this. >> you would assume that the white house would have a plan. does the white house have a plan for these 6 million americans who are worried about how they'll pay for their expensive new obama care plans with all of its mandates? not according to the president. in germany yesterday, the president refused repeatedly refused to talk about a plan b. president obama owes america a serious answer. >> now, let me get this right. they go with the lawsuit on the right. they're pushing for the lawsuit. and if they are successful they want the president to have the backup plan? they don't have one? >> they don't have one. and the 58 times that they voted to repeal obama care the affordable care act, they didn't have a backup plan then. so they have been fighting for

five years now to be able to get rid of obama care and never have had a backup plan. of course it's their responsibility. this is a lawsuit that they have supported, that they brought to the supreme court, and i'll tell you, there are plenty of republicans right now who are very worried. and if the court makes a decision in favor of ending these subsidies for states that don't have their own plans, this is going to be the most political decision since bush v. gore because all the evidence says that these subsidies should remain in place. all of the legislative and intent is clear, even the congressional budget office has estimated the cost of the plan based on all the states being able to provide the subsidies. and even the republicans, when they plan their own budgets, have planned for the states all paying for those subsidies. so there is absolutely not a

single shred of evidence or legal ground to stand on to remove the subsidies. there are four words that they're building their whole case on but the whole rest of the bill and the whole legislative history says those subsidies should stick. and the republicans better hope they do. >> now, the hill reports today, going to an earlier point you raised congresswoman, they report today that the republicans feared they will win the obama care court battle. quote, writing speaker boehner and senator mcconnell are, quote, under pressure from colleagues up for re-election in swing states and districts to extend the subsidies at least temporarily if the court strikes them down. but doing so would risk a backlash from the conservative base. now, is the potential disaster the gop's own makings,

congresswoman? >> there is no question. they have said for years that it's been their intent to get rid of that evil obama care even as now 17 million people now have health care that didn't have it before. and so they are right to be worried. i think there will be a real backlash in their own district. those that are up for re-election are in a terrible quandary and the republican party in general has really got its hands tied now. >> you know i want to go back to senator john thune's strange, very strange tweet about obama care yesterday. he wrote -- and i'm quoting. this is exactly what he wrote. 6 million people risk losing their health care subsidies, yet the president continues to deny that obama care is bad for the american people. tea party congressman justin hamish wrote -- was one of the many people confused by that

tweet. he responded, senator, i support repealing obama care but subsidies exist only because of obama care. your criticism makes no sense. this is a tea party congressman writing him. i mean republicans aren't even making sense when they create the law. how will they come up with a solution if the court does what they've asked to do and that's cut the subsidies? >> the problem they have is that there's no real substitute that's going to do all the things that the affordable care act has done. they know that. that's why they've never come up with a solution other than another vote and another vote to repeal obama care. the kind of thing that senator thune said -- and it's just ridiculous. it makes absolutely no sense. it's completely contradictory. that's what they've been doing. they've been talking themselves around in circles, have no plan and i'm just hoping very much that the supreme court sees

through this as a political move and that they should uphold the subsidies for everyone. too much is at stake. >> congresswoman jan schakowsky thank you for your time tonight. >> my pleasure. thank you. ahead, breaking news from mckinney, texas, reports tonight that the officer who pulled a gun on teenagers at that pool party has resigned. also, bomb threats in washington. is there a better way to respond to a security scare like this at the white house? also dennis hastert in court. what experts are saying about the case against him.

breaking news. any minute now we're expecting a press conference from the police chief in mckinney, texas. we'll bring it to you live. it comes from kxas. it reports tonight that the officer in that video has resigned. stay right here. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis like me... and you're talking to a rheumatologist about a biologic this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira helping me reach for more.

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live pictures from mckinney, texas, where the police chief is about to hold a news conference. nbc news is reporting that the officer who pulled a gun on teenagers at that pool party is resigning. corporal eric casebolt was

placed on administrative leave after video showed him throwing a teenager to the ground and then pulling a gun. the police launched an internal investigation. that 15-year-old girl described what happened. >> he grabbed me and he like twisted my arm on the back of my back, and he shoved me in the grass. he started pulling the back of my braids. and i was telling him that he can get off me because my back was hurting really bad. him getting fired isn't enough. >> we don't know what happened prior to the video being recorded, though police say they were responding to reports of a disturbance among juveniles. the young man who shot some of the video talked about the police behavior. >> the cops are only sitting minorities on ground and nobody who was white was detained or

had anything to do with the situation at all. >> and you were right there. >> i was right in the middle of a group of black people and they had put them all on the ground except for me. >> last night hundreds marched through town to the swimming pool. many calling for the officer to be fired. but the breaking news tonight reports that corporal casebolt has resigned. a live news conference any minute now. let's bring in jim cavanaugh, retired atf special agent in charge. jim, what's your reaction to this news? >> well i think it's a positive development, reverend al for the city of mckinney, really. the police chief, the commanders are not going to have to deal with the disciplinary issues from corporate casebolt there. they can move forward. they can have a chance to be leaders here to change this dynamic and to help change policing. so you know there will be

lawsuits, i'm sure against the department and they'll deal with that. but focus on the training the sergeant matters. in this case casebolt was the ranking officer there and the one acting inappropriately. let's focus on the sergeant at the scenes of all these things. when we go back to rodney king sergeants standing there while he was beaten or we go to staten island where a man's choked to death and there are sergeants on the scene or san bernardino county where sergeants are involved even kicking a handcuffed man. sergeants are key. they are the people that have to control this stuff, control the officers assess the situation. maybe we can get some leadership out of mckinney pd here. they can step up. you know they've got good people there. those other officers seemed to act appropriately. they weren't doing anything irrational. so it's a chance for progress. i think you know that reverend al. you're sitting a few blocks from where the freedom riders are beaten in '61 by the kkk when

the montgomery police would not intervene. so we need to see some progress in some places we haven't seen. >> that is exactly right. one of the things that is interesting you point out the sergeants that were on those scenes and some of them were involved with the protest afterward raising the attention on them. and it is real disturbing when you look at casebolt who is not only the sergeant on the scene but the one that was actually doing the egregious things himself and he also part of his duties he was involved in the training of other officers jim. >> well that's right, reverend al. you know what happens in the police service we focus so much of our training on the kinetic activities, the shooting the taking down suspects who want to fight, the breaking in a door on

a warrant. we focus a lot on that. it has to be trained, but we also need to put a real heavy emphasis on restraint, negotiation, assessment of the issue. look, if an appropriate sergeant was in mckinney, he could have taken a step back got on the bridge and said you know what? this is a pool party and it was a hair pulling fight. and even that is over. and you know we could have dispatched any five high school teachers in america that could have handled that pool party better than it was handled by mckinney pd that day. but i think mckinney pd's a good department. i mean i used to live in the neighboring town. and i had a lot of times to pass through there. so i don't think they're an unprofessional group. i think the chief has stood up here. i think they're good officers but now they've got to take the lead. show the country, show policing how you're going to make the changes, lead on changing the

sergeant sergeants, accepting responsibility here. we can make america better for all of us. because as you always say, reverend al i hear you say it so many times, i hope america hears you because people turn a deaf ear. you want good police. you want good police. i've seen you say it on the show many times. and from the pulpit from the altar, we want good police. we support good police. but we don't want police shooting someone in the back eight times when they're running away beating them for minor infraction beating them with batons, i love the police. i spent my life in law enforcement. it tears me up to see this kind of stuff happen because i think it hurts the officer, it hurts policing, it hurts all of us. we've got to make some fundamental changes. we're in that time right now. we made some after the '60s, you know, and you recall all that. but we didn't sustain some of those changes and we've got to inculcate into police the

history of civil rights and why people think the way they do. i was talking this afternoon with -- >> i think you're right. i think that sensitiveity needs to be there. it must be built into the training, and you're right, we are not anti-police. in fact we're pro police. the best thing that happened to good police is to get rid of the bad apples. i can't tell you how many policemen tell me we can't stand to be smeared with the few that's against doing the right thing and that break the law or break police procedures. let me take a quick break. i want you to stay with me jim. we're waiting on that press conference live. there's other news that we're going to cover, but we're going to continue to monitor and go live when that press conference starts in mckinney, texas. let's take a break. when my back pain flared up, i thought i'd have to give him away. i tried tylenol but it was 6 pills a day. with aleve it's just 2 pills, all day. now i'm back!

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of the mckinney police department who day in and day out do an outstanding job on behalf of all of our citizens. i've had a number of meetings with local community leaders, and we agree on this. -- mckinney is a wonderful city. a great place to live work and visit. we're committed to keeping it that way. we will continue to work together in the days ahead to strengthen relationships with all who call this great city home. i am encouraged by the support of our local community. our residents met with me and said chief, we will hold you accountable, but we can take care of our own house. to all the citizens of mckinney, i say to you, thank you for your support and i look forward to working together with you to keep this city one of the best communities in america to call home. at this time i'd like to

introduce our mayor, mayor brian lockmiller. he has a statement. >> thank you. you know over the past few days my primary goal and responsibility has been to monitor and to reassure our residents and our community that we're going through this investigation in a proper way, in a quick way and that most of all to make sure that we have a peaceful response to the actions that took place. over the past few days i've been meeting with residents and representative s representatives to ensure them that it would be an open and fair process that is legally required. i received many e-mails and phone call. it's important to point out that while friday's incident demanded and received our full attention it is not indicative of mckinney as a whole. we have good law abiding

citizens throughout our community including our craig ranch neighborhood. we have good public servants in our police department and fire department. the actions of any one individual do not define our community as a whole. i appreciate the efforts of chief conley and the community to peacefully present their views. we'll continue to evaluate these events and reach out to community members to help move our community forward in a positive manner. as i said in the past and i said initially when this all happened, our expectation as a city council and our city management is that all city employees act professionally with an attitude of service to our community. i believe our employees strive for this and will continue to do so. i also want to thank our religious leaders that i met with last evening and their willingness to work with us as we work through this process and their willingness to continue to work with us and all our

residents from all over the community so we can move forward together in a positive manner. thank you all very much. >> thank you, mr. mayor. at this time we will take just a few questions. >> police chief, did this mean that his resignation, will he keep his pension, his benefits? >> i believe that that's correct. >> was he forced to resign. >> he resigned on his own will. >> the internal affairs investigation is now essentially over? >> yes. he's no longer an employee of the department. >> how does that affect the one person was arrested initially. >> that case has been dropped. >> that case has been dropped? >> yes. >> when do you expect the charges to be filed on mr. casebolt. >> joining me now is former new york police officer and director of black law enforcement alliance on the phone. mark, what is your reaction to this news? >> significant in some ways but really indicative of a larger

problem throughout the nation and that is really the level of professional standards in law enforcement is rapidly deteriorating and even the expectations of professional standards on the part of the civilian population has been lowered to the point where we've become accustomed or more accepting of conduct that is really beneath the profession of law enforcement. there needs to be more significant outreach and raising the standards for the nation. >> the standards have been to be raised but law enforcement has been be enforced to protect citizens and police and the training must be dealt with with jim cavanaugh and i was talking about. and people can try and act as though there's something incendiary about that. i think it's incendiary when you

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now available with an easy open cap. two bomb scares in

washington today. bomb threats cleared rooms at the white house and the capitol building today. reporters were evacuated from the white house but many are wondering why the president was not evacuated. two bomb threats within hours of each other. how serious was the threat? and how unusual is this? joining me now from the white house briefing room is april ryan, washington bureau chief for the american urban radio networks. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me reverend al. >> april, you were in that briefing. what were you hearing? and how unusual was that evacuation? >> well reverend al i've been here for 18 years, and i've seen evacuations. i've seen it where some of us have been able to leave and then some of us, if we chose to stay and finish writing our story, we were able to do that. sometimes we were told to shelter in place in our

respective booths or down in the basement of the briefing room area. but this time this was very unique and different because the secret service came to the briefing room door during an active white house briefing they came once to the door and then saw that we were here. i mean for secret service to come to the door while there is briefing, something has to be major. and they walked away to say, oh there's a briefing going on then they came back as josh was talking and giving an answer to a question and you know josh was going to continue. you might be able to see my hand. i was like secret service is here because i knew there was some kind of issue. we were told to leave. we all left. they made it a point to go throughout the whole briefing room. i understand the cameras, while we were evacuated to the building next door i understand the cameras caught some of the activity here. but what you didn't see was what the secret service was doing within our booths, our offices and going through everything just to make sure that the threat was benign.

>> why wasn't the president moved? >> that's something that we want to find out. reverend al, you've been here many times, and this briefing room -- and i mean i can actually say my booth is 150 feet away from the oval office. so -- and my booth is a couple of feet away from where i'm standing right now. so that gives you a clear proximity of how close the oval office is. then on the other side of the briefing room, you have the residence. we don't know why the president wasn't moved, but it was definitely a serious situation for them to move us for them to go throughout the briefing room to go throughout our office space. we're still trying to find that out. >> well we will certainly be following up on this. april ryan thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you, reverend al. >> we'll be right back with dennis hastert in court today. .. ...and takes the wheel right from your very hands...

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fbi. the feds say hastert used the money as payoff to conceal misconduct of a sexual nature involving a male student when hastert was a high school wrestling coach three decades ago. hastert has not been charged with anything regarding the alleged misconduct. joining me now is criminal defense attorney brian weiss and former federal prosecutor paul butler. thank you both for being here. >> it's great oto be here. >> brian hastert pleaded not guilty. your reaction. >> not surprised at all, al. first of all, he hires the heavy-hitter like thomas green, a made guy, like we say, in the mob. i don't think he hired him to roll over. i also think thomas green recognizes that his client is a sympathetic figure. i don't know a lot about criminal law, but i don't think congress intended the money laundering statute to apply to

someone who is a victim of extortion and blackmail. anybody who has ever watched "law & order" repeat knows that this is a statute that's designed to reach money launderers, dope dealer terrorists, tax cheats but i don't think it was mebtant to reach someone in a position that dennis hastert found himself today in the federal building today. >> what is your take? >> this is a slam dunk for the prosecutor prosecution prosecution. we don't know what speaker hastert did but it was worth $3.5 million of his money so we didn't find out. what this case was about was not the cover up -- even though that's what he's being charged with. it's about what the indictment calls his prior misconduct. that's what he's going to go down for. you bet that fancy lawyer is now working out a plea agreement. >> paul are the feds involved in it evokeing banking laws

let's put it that way, are they invoking banking laws because of the statute of limitations only allege sexual misconduct that you have alluded to have run out? >> exactly right. it's like when they went after al capone for tax evasion. that's wasn't what they were concerned about. you charge a case that you can prove not the case that you want to bring. >> brian, the feds say hastert's payments were meant to compensate and conceal misconduct against individual "a." so why isn't individual "a" facing blackmail charges? >> you know that's one of life's unanswered questions, reverend. this is a situation where if denny hastert wanted to ensure that individual "a" received restitution or reparation all he had to go was go online on legal zoom and have bob shapiro knock him out a legal release. to the extent thafr going after

him -- again for a comment he made to an fbi agent about he didn't trust the safety of the american banking system. with all due respect sometimes when i'm going through the drive-thru, i have the same self-doubt about the banking system. to ring this guy up on a manufactured case like this to me is a shame of monumental proportions, guys. >> paul you're shaking your head. could hastert's team argue that he was compelled to break banking rules and lie because he was being blackmailed? >> that strains incredulity. jurors are supposed to use their common sense. is there anyone in america who believes he took a million and a half dollars out of the bank and put it under his mattress because he didn't trust the banking system? this from the former speaker of the house, a man who was two heartbeats away in line of succession from the presidency. that's balderdash. if he tells that to a jury he's going down. >> can we possibly see a plea here? >> at some point it's certainly

well within the realm of possibility, reverend al. right now they're kind of in the meet and greet stage. paul is somebody who indicted his share of political figures, understands that you're not going to roll over at the initial appearance. but let me just say this as a personal note. i got to meet denny hastert during a time-delayed sentencing hearing. he walked in the courtroom and he had on hush puppies and a blazer from the big and tall shop. and he was a genuinely nice guy. easy to ring somebody up if you don't like their politics. but at the end of the day, i think that denny hastert sees the inside of a federal prison when paul butler and i get a daytime emmy for legal analysis guys. >> paul your response quickly. >> you know lots of people in prison are actually nice guys, but when you make a mistake, you do the time. if it's good enough for the 2 1/2 million other people in prison it's good enough for the former speaker of the house. >> all right.

brian weiss and paul butler thank you for your time tonight. >> always a pleasure. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. hard to starboard. the offshore warning for secretary hillary clinton. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. the battle for hillary clinton's heart and mind is on. bernie sanders threatens from the left. if she doesn't move her course to port she should fear getting stuck on the sand bar of centrism. now comes the warnings from the right and right of center. if hillary clinton doesn't bolt to starboard she risks heading over the abyss, they say. which way should she turn left right or all-ahead full?