ve staff. some of the staff would be there no matter what. >> yep, they would. lynn sweet and jim warren, thank you both for joining us tonight. hard to starboard. the offshore warning for secretary hillary clinton. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. the battle for hillary clinton's heart and mind is on. bernie sanders threatens from the left. if she doesn't move her course to port, she should fear getting stuck on the sand bar of centrism. now comes the warnings from the right and right of center. if hillary clinton doesn't bolt to starboard she risks heading over the abyss, they say. which way should she turn, left, right or all-ahead full? ron founier, betsy woodruff, daily beast, and patrick healy "new york times" reporter.

according to politico her supporters worry she might start sounding a lot like bernie sanders than elizabeth warren. "my fear is that she is just going to get pulled too far left by people who want her to just hammer the banks and stand in opposition to all these things she's against." politico reports "clinton aides and outsiders alike acknowledge that the candidate is in a box as one donor put it when it comes to financial reform. if she goes too hard she can scare away donors. if she goes too soft she risks alienating the left in a damaging way that the campaign is relying on the left-leaning obama coalition to win. you think hillary clinton makes a mistake going left with sanders and those people? >> no. >> you don't? >> most of this country right now is populist. i think a populist message could be successful.

you just pointed out her problem. nobody knows what her position is and nobody trusts her to come forward with an authentic message. she should decide where she stands on these issues and frame it and run on it instead of trying the figure out am i right, left, starboard. >> don't they position themselves where it will work? >> no. they say this is where they are and convince the people that's where they should be. that's a position you can get a lot of americans behind on the right and the left. she should argue it. if she's more centrist, argue the centrist message, but who is she? >> i think politicians try to figure out which way the wind's blowing when they get in their boat and which way to tack. >> that's a problem. >> but who doesn't do that? >> a successful politician doesn't do that. a real leader doesn't do that. >> hillary's problem is also not messaging. she can say whatever she wants, whatever rhetorical strategies she likes.

that's not the issue. she hasn't said which specific policy changes she would push for if she's president, particularly keystone xl, on trade. >> you think hillary clinton might support keystone, really? >> she hasn't said. she's been coy about it. which is weird. activists are more savvy than ever. we see this on the right and on the left with elizabeth warren. >> you guys are tough. i think hillary's being a politician. i wonder if there's a new standard here because i don't think she's clearly a lefty. i don't think that's fair. she's mainly a centrist, but the democratic party, which she hope to lead, is definitely moving left. your thoughts. >> no question, no question. she's going to have to go before the wall street crowd at some point. what i've heard is that they're going to be listening for words like "regulation" and "redistribution" and she has to sort of thread a needle where

she's going to be appealing to those thousand people who are coming out for bernie sanders in new hampshire last weekend where she's able to tap into at least some of that fire without scaring off a lot of these donors, some of whom i've talked to have said we can be with her but right now maybe we can be with jeb. and maybe that is possible. she needs to -- the question i think is what ron got her which is what's really in her heart and is she willing to bet the white house on sticking with what she believes in or reinforce these questions about her authenticity in terms of what she's really going to do when she gets to the white house. >> you're up there, patrick. you know the crowds up there. half of these people are liberals on wall street make a ton of money. don't they always vote liberal and make money like conservatives. they've lived that weird by fur kated existence for a long time. >> sure, absolutely. right. no, right. they go both ways. but the question becomes when

they have to talk to their people within the banking industry, when they're trying to reach out to people who might be more on the fence what they're wondering is how tough is she going to be, how much will they get into the warren rhetoric and policy? what sort of president would she be? and some of other own people who are those sort of billionaires, multimillionaires who are definitely going to vote liberal, they don't know what to say to friends, colleagues. >> she needs to give them talking points. driving her farther left is in the wing of the democratic party that's growing louder. well represented by some of her opponents in the race, senator elizabeth warren. let's watch. >> to the billionaire class, say that your greed has got to end. it is time to break up the largest financial institutions in this country.

wall street cannot continue to be an island unto itself. >> tell me how it is that not a single wall street ceo was convicted of a crime related to the 2008 economic meltdown. >> too many of the people in washington do not represent the folks who elected them. they represent the rich and the powerful who don't want their taxes raised, who don't want to see any change. the only way we get change is when enough people in this country say, i'm mad as hell and i'm fed up and i'm not going to do this any more. >> betsy, you think hillary clinton is a skilled performer in public and certainly knows how to do that. wouldn't she want to talk like that, as somebody who want to bring down the towers of wealth, break up the banks, arrest the rich people in wall street that she's met on martha's vineyard. arrest those people. can hillary clinton want to talk like that?

>> absolutely not. these are her buddies. she's been making millions making speeches. she can't turn around and say they should go to jail. not only would she lose friends, she'd lose the base. >> it's also not her style to use words like fat cats and sort of throw around that kind of rhetoric. it is just not going to play sort of authentically. >> let's get to particulars. will she come out for breaking up the banks? will they get rid of carried interest which is a way that people in investment banking can get lower rates for income than you would have to pay income tax on was earned income. is she going to take away the benefits of working on wall street? will she do that? this is real stuff. patrick? >> yeah, no, right. >> will she? >> i don't think she's going to come out with exactly the chris

matthews' agenda. she'll talk about overseas profits, about tax reform. >> well, that's easy. >> but i don't think she's going to be pressing red buttons that are going to make wall street, the financial community panic, no. >> let me go back to you because you're a tough guy, ron. >> i'm a softy. >> how in the world can she -- you say you don't know what she is. we've watched her in public life since he was first lady in arkansas. she's a lawyer, a smart person, she knows how to win elections. she stopped wearing the coke bottle glasses, she change her name to clinton. everybody makes the adjustments. shouldn't she make adjustments to win? she's always had to do it. >> i agree with you. incredibly capable person. but here's what she should do. she should decide what she thinks is best for the country and have all these high paid consultants help her message and explain that to the public instead of having the consultants come to her and say, here's what you should do.

>> should she come out for the trade bill? >> personally? i think she should be consistent. >> is she for it? >> yes. she should stick with it. use the consultants to explain -- >> so if you hillary clinton you would declare war on the labor movement, that would be your advice to her? >> how did you get to that. >> because every single labor union is pushing opposition to the trade bill. >> i would explain my position, if labor wants to come to war with me, i'd let them but i'm not going to war with them. >> you don't think that's a declaration of war? >> no. what would be a declaration of capitulation is to cave on something you've had all this time. be true to who you are and let the consultants explain it. >> you know how she operates. she won't vilify large groups of people like labor. she'll take her yellow legal pad, she's going to use her rhetoric about how the deck is stacked against everyday americans and write out specific policies that you can tweak,

adjust. it won't be hillary-care with a thousand page book of policy, but she'll be looking at ways to sort of like refine and work toward the middle. >> let's look at this question. is the democratic party moving left? is hillary clinton keeping up with the country? on the one hand when asked, if they're conservative or liberal, only 19% say they're liberal. they don't like that word. but when asked about individual issues separately a new "new york times"/cbs poll shows the country does lean left particularly, get this, 66% say wealth should be more evenly distributed in the country. that's pretty dramatic. 57% said the government should do more to reduce the income gap. that's pretty liberal. 68% in favor of raising taxes on those making more than a million a year. and trade must be restricted to protect domestic issues. >> those aren't liberal issues, those are populist issues.

>> what's the difference? >> a lot of people on the right who are tired of the establishment and wall street. >> you don't think it's a liberal position to redistribute the well downward? >> i think it's populist. >> these are terms. i know they're popular. using the word "populist" is a soft way of saying liberal. would like to see the taxes raised on the rich. >> who would love to see wall street taken to the mat. >> no, you said redistribute the income. >> all those issues. >> would they do that? how would they do it? how would a conservative reduce the income gap. no, i want to stay with you. >> how would a populist -- >> how would a conservative reduce the gap? >> i don't think they have any trouble. >> how would they -- no, we've had people in this country making exponential wealth and other people scrambling to stay alive. >> who are we talking about? i'm talking about the most

populist of the conservative, the rand paul type conservatives who have no problem cracking down on wall street. >> you say that's not a liberal position. it is. >> it is a liberal position but also a populist very conservative position. >> give me one example what they'll do about the income inequality. >> of the issues you ticked off, you can find a lot of conservatives. >> what would that be? give me an example. >> you talked earlier about taking away the incentives that they have now. >> you think they'd do that, go after wall street. >> there are on both sides. >> when hell freezes over they'll do that. >> i won't happen. one thing republicans can argue for is making it easier for people to open businesses. rather than talking about going after wealthy people, republicans will talk about. >> the republicans, when hillary clinton's talking about it, you pick up on this, rather modest she talks about the fact that ceos make 300 times what the

average guy working in the factory is making. i don't know how you can regulate that. i don't know if she's after people with exponential wealth, entrepreneurs that make billions. i don't know how you bring the guy making billions somehow closer to the guy making $50,000 a year. i don't think conservatives want to do it. >> but this is the important thing about hillary clinton. the moment that you know that she's really crossed over the authenticity line into leftist just give the people what they want is when she starts proposing things like bernie sanders proposes that never will have a chance of getting through a divided congress. >> right. >> when she starts throwing out sort of like big red meat ideas. it's easy to do, but it goes against the, i think, a real core of hillary clinton, which is that she believes in living in the real world. she believes in pragmatism. she believes in trying to work

across the aisle and doesn't believe in throwing out ideas that will satisfy some liberal -- >> thank you. we'll have more about hillary clinton and her shift to the left later with the roundtable. coming up, former house speaker dennis hastert. at one point the most powerful republican in washington pleads not guilty to charges he lied to the fbi and tried to skirt banking laws. so hastert's fighting the charges. let's come back and find out what his strategy might be. the supreme court could decide this month to gut obama care. right now president obama nor the republicans have a backup plan. two days in june of 1963 that might have change the course of history. on those two days jfk made two huge speeches that tackled the big issues of the day. nuclear weapons and civil rights. the stuff of greatness. finally let me finish with the likelihood that donald trump will actually run for president this time.

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tense moments at the white house briefing. it force the secret service to evacuate the room right in the middle of a live televised briefing. reporters were cleared but secret service says no bomb was found.

welcome back to "hardball" former house speaker dennis hastert pled not guilty in a court in chicago where he's fighting one charge of lying to the fbi and the other charge of evading bank regulations. facing a crush of media outside the courthouse in his first public appearance since the indictment he remained silent as reporters bombarded him with questions. >> did you have a sexual relationship with a student of

yours? >> what do you have to say to the people -- >> hey, hey, be kale. >> constituents? >> whoa, whoa, whoa. >> come on. >> wow, the charges against hastert are a series of hush money payouts to an official that were intended to conceal a past relationship of a sexual nature. this comes a day after hastert hired top white collar crime defense attorney thomas green whose experience includes the watergate, iran-contra and whitewater investigations. carol, thank you for joining us. give us a sense of everything today, what hastert looked like, everything. >> you know, denny hastert, as you know, chris, is a big hulking guy, but he walked in a thinner more stooped man. he kept his eyes down even in

the courtroom. he was quiet. he was, as you would expect with these charges, somber. but it was someone who looked a bit more bent and a bit more broken. >> what about the media scrum out there? i never saw so many people. i guess i have. but for a case like this to see this many reporters and cameras, almost like running the gauntlet there. they weren't letting this guy through. >> chris, you have to remember this is illinois, this is chicago. the last time we saw that kind of scrum, it was for the two different trials of governor rod blagojevich, before that governor george ryan. we've seen mighty and powerful politicians walk through the lobby of this federal courthouse. and in chicago, that's a story that's heavily covered. in the country it is. there were national reporters here as well. >> what do you make of the fact that the judge in this case has apparently admitted that he's made a couple of political

contributions to hastert? now, if neither the prosecution nor the defense asks him to recuse himself, this could be a basis for an appeal later it seems to me. so maybe the defendants want him there, the prosecution, i don't know. what would be the strategy of letting a judge who has made political contributions to the defendant continue as trial judge? >> well, there's more context to that man this. both sides, i'm guessing, want thomas durkin to stay as the judge. thomas durkin is an a-1 prosecutor who went after public corruption in illinois and put judges and lawmakers in jail. he was the supervisor in the federal office of the u.s. attorney for these two prosecutors at one point and the defense attorney john gallo who now is representing hastert with thomas green. durkin also worked in a big law firm in chicago. both sides know thomas durkin.

anybody who knows him also knows he's a pretty by the book straight and narrow judge. i'm guessing neither side is going to ask for durkin to leave this case. >> okay, thanks so much carol marin out there. wmaq, a great station. michael steele, former chairman of the rnc. i mean, it's probably out of order right now to show too much sympathy for this guy. >> yeah. >> because if he did abuse those kids it was not reprehensible, it was evil. you look at the situation so many years later. it's like a war criminal being hauled back years after the incidents. >> part of the problem is that's not what he's being charged with. you got what he did with the cash that he was paying this individual or other individuals and then you have the separate piece which deals with his personal behavior. that, of course, is the most damaging part about this. i think the problem that denny hastert has is further revelations, if there are other students who come forward.

apparently there are those that are waiting in the wings, as some have reported. so this story is going to be, at first, about the trial for miss appropriation of funds, et cetera, but the bigger story and the bigger narrative is going to be the sexual abuse portion of this and that history there and given that you're not going to go back and prosecute for that is going to be frustrating for a lot of people. >> it was like the lewinsky thing and they talked about it being perjury but really about monica lewinsky and that relationship. a self-help group called the survivors network of those abused by priests call for anyone involved in possible misdeeds by hastert to come forward stating, we urge those who may have been seen, suspected or suffered abuse by hastert to speak up now. that's a pretty dramatic call. today that group is also urging lawmakers to reform the statute of limitations for victims of sexual abuse. as "the washington post" reports each time a name is added to the list of once well-regarded

seemingly wholesome and in some cases self-appointed arbiters of sexual morality, the laws get push into the spotlight. i was asking our producer, the fact that we have statutes of limitations is because people's memories fade.the idea of having a fair trial about something 30 or 40 years ago. but out in chicago and illinois, the law is 20 years after the age of 18. if these crimes were committed against a 12-year-old kid, that's six plus 26, that's a pretty lengthy statute of limitations. but not enough in this case. >> there should be a look back at these statutes and how they're applied for younger kids, minors up to 13 and 15 because the trauma of that and reliving that experience, it does come back. i have talked with sexual abuse victims in the past. in their 20s and 30s, it does manifest. >> the flash of memories? >> they do.

for a lot of these stories, the trauma and the fear is what grips these young people in the early going. it's not until they have gone through psychological counseling, they've gone through a lot of the trauma that they decide it's time to do something. >> you and i probably drive up massachusetts avenue past the vice president's house and on the other side, there's a guy out there holding a big sign. he was apparently abused, a middle aged guy and he's been abused. he has a look on his face of victimhood. that guy said when are they going to do something about this? >> whether the church or an individual, society wants those folks to be made whole. >> i hope people do come out. get your message out. don't let it happen again. there might be stuff like this going on right now where someone has authority over someone else. good to get the word out. blow the whistle now. anyway, thank you, michael steele. two days of jfk's presidency in two speeches.

we who live through it all remember they changed the course of history. one was on nuclear war and the other was on civil rights, probably the most important presidential speech of modern types when jack kennedy came out and said this country has to have civil rights. two days in june. the author is here in just a minute. s romantic why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? with cialis for daily use, you don't have to plan around either. it's the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache.

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the fires of frustration and discord are burning in every city where legal remedies are not at hand regress is sought in the streets, in demonstrations, parades and protests which create tensions and threaten violence. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was jack kennedy, president kennedy addressing the nation on june 11, 1963. the streets seethed with protests from african-americans wanting a seat at the lunch counter. the quest continues as african-americans need to fight back against attempts to restrict their vote.

a new generation takes to the streets in racial tensions. president kennedy spoke that same week on another front, a major address on nuclear arms control on a test ban treaty with the russians. a critical effort to reduce the chances of nuclear annihilation at that point. here he is. >> it would place the nuclear powers in a position to deal more effectively with one of the greatest hazards which man faces in 1963, the further spread of nuclear arms. it would increase our security, it would decrease the prospects of war. surely this goal is sufficiently important to require our steady pursuit. >> just like president kennedy, president obama has to get congress and the american people behind a nuclear agreement with iran right now. >> these are matters of war and peace, and they should be evaluated based on the facts and

what is ultimately best for the american people. and for our national security. for this is not simply a deal between my administration and iran. this is a deal between iran, the united states of america and the major powers in the world. >> joining me right now is andrew cohen, syndicated columnist and author of "two days in june." congratulations on this great book. i think june 1963 was an amazing period in history for presidential leadership. let's talk about civil rights. when kennedy went on television, prime time tv, everybody in the country, it was white and black, black people for the first time heard a white guy as martin luther king mentioned in your book, that quote from walter fauntroy, they never heard anything like that. >> he stepped up and hit it out of the park. >> what made jack kennedy, who was very cautious politically come forward with that dramatic

statement that civil rights are as old as the scriptures and as clear as the constitution? >> it was an extraordinary journey for jack kennedy. he was a white irishman as you well know and the all white navy and all white congress suddenly he's asking americans to imagine white americans what it's like to be a black american. he goes through it statistically in that speech. one-third as much chance of going to college, half as much chance of -- >> very logical. >> absolutely logical. ted sorensen has had less than two hours to write that speech. he's bringing stuff back from the university of nebraska what it was like then to be a black in america. it hadn't changed that much. >> it gave logic on top of the hell we're looking at. here the president very coldly and analytically says we've got to do something. robert kennedy was attorney general. he played a critical role elevating civil rights as a priority in the administration.

here's bob kennedy advising john doerr of the justice department how to handle george wallace. here he is, bob kennedy. >> i would take it to almost dismiss him as being a second rate figure. >> amazing thing to have a brother who is willing to be your enforcer. >> that's what bobby did. there he is. and they're bothered, wallace is driving them crazy. he won't take their calls. he won't meet bobby kennedy. there he is down in alabama standing in the door of the university against those, the two students in the car unable to register. they say why do we have to deal with this guy? he's on the wrong side of history. we know he is. they will face him down later in the afternoon. jfk will issue an executive order. they'll call the national guard, move him out of there and they

won't waste a crisis, which is why he'll go on the air and announce in that extraordinary speech. >> great to have aggressive federal government who knows what it's doing. right out of the gate this year hillary clinton is calling out her republican opponents to restrict access to the ballot box. here she is in houston last week. >> republicans are systematically and deliberately trying to stop millions of american citizens from voting. what part of democracy are they afraid of? i believe every citizen has the right to vote. >> good for her. let me ask about nuclear disarmament. because i was growing up and i thought we'd eventually have a third world war. everybody thought it was a matter of time because the soviets and us had so many weapons poised at each other. then kennedy and khrushchev, these two leaders somehow find their way to making a deal on the test ban treaty of

atmospheric test ban on testing nuclear weapons. it began with this speech right across the street here at american university. >> it's called the peace speech. it was kennedy's -- i think kennedy's greatest speech. khrushchev and kennedy realized only eight months earlier they had nearly blown up the world. opening back channels through the pope, kennedy realizes there's a chance that they might make progress on a limited nuclear test ban treaty. he wanted a comprehensive ban. he couldn't get it. when he steps up to that microphone at american university just very near here at 10:30 a.m. on monday, june 10th, he's going to speak about the russians in a way no american -- >> the first time a president has ever said you defeated the nazis, you took the loss. >> he humanizes them. >> that's what obama's trying to deal with the iranian people right now. i know it sounds romantic but he's trying to reach the people over there. once we bomb them, their facilities, we'll never get

alone or have the hopes of the secular people over there. "two days in june," how to avoid another war in the middle east over nuclear weapons and how to guarantee the rights of african-americans to be full americans, that's what we try to do here anyway. have to write that book someday. the book is called "two days in june," andrew cohen. congratulations. is she in gear? that's coming up next for the roundtable. you're watching "hardball."

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>> what is happening is a sweeping effort to disempower and disenfranchise people of color, poor people and young people from one end of our country to the other. >> welcome back to "hardball." hillary is positioning herself away from the middle and steering to the left on issues like immigration, gay marriage and attacking the republicans on voting rights. hillary's latest moves are a part to energize president obama's successful 2008 and 2012 coalition of young people, minorities and women into 2016. will it work?

the roundtable jonathan capehart opinion writer with "the washington post." cherylyn harley lebon was senior counsel on the senate judiciary committee and ryan grim with the huffington post. i'll start with you, ryan. i'll start with you. is hillary on course to win this election and be a great president? is she making the right moves? >> i think she's actually quite beatable. but if she does go left and go with the white house, i don't think the pitfalls described earlier in the show are there for her. for one the well is already poisoned. she tried to impeach her husband. if she tries to drink from that well, she's a sucker. >> if she tries to be a moderate. >> right, obama tried it. when he rallied his base, he got the stimulus, obama care, wall street reform done. he then tried to go to the center. and for four years or so, he governed nil, nothing, got nothing done.

he now is kind of going back to the base and all of a sudden he's able to govern again even though -- >> so you argue we're a divided country, get used to it? >> that's right. >> i find it interesting because to run to the left, everything that we've seen in terms of what the foundation is doing, her it's inconsistent with the narrative. how will she relate to someone who makes $10 an hour. the point is where they're getting their money from. there's been a lot of controversy about the money coming from saudi arabia. >> what's wrong with robbing the rich and giving to the poor? >> but the point is if you, in fact, are arguing and saying that you are for the rights of women and girls yet you're taking money from countries that in no way are supporting the rights of women and girls.

>> give me a list of things that the republican presidents of recent history have done for the rights -- no, give me an example. this conservative concern about women in saudi arabia is fairly new like last week. when has your party ever raised a concern about women in third world countries? i'm just asking because you're bringing it up here against hillary. >> i bring it up here because it's important. if she's running to the left she has to answer for the type of money she's taken in. >> then people should give up their iphones and ipads because there are stores in middle eastern countries that don't, you know, treat women equally. look, i think that that argument is immaterial to the american voting public. if you pay attention to what secretary clinton has been saying in her speeches over the last couple of months, last week was voting rights. she's done the speech on pay equity. she's done a speech of criminal

justice reform. and if you look at them and pay attention to what she's saying, she's talking about issues that everyday people care about and want something done by the president of the united states. and so if that means to us it looks like she's running to the left, she's running to the left, yes, to energize the base, but the country's there, too. >> can she do it without rocking the boat, going after wall street, i'm going to break up the banks, can she do it without talking like even martin o'malley? in other words, can you bring the people to the voting booth to vote for something that they think is good for themselves, self-interest for everyday people without creating havoc with her donor base? >> she probably can. i mean, democrats have been pulling this off for, you know, a century or so, where they talk tough in the campaign. >> but they have to deliver. >> why do they have to deliver?

>> there are certain thins you have to deliver. >> the jackboots are coming. >> you're cynical. obama did bring us back from the abyss of the worst recession of the '30s. it actually worked. we've got an unemployment situation that we didn't think we'd be near. it's not like he's played the game of pretending to do something. >> but the bush tax cuts got pushed mostly forward. >> because the republicans and the congress wouldn't let him change them. >> and that's fine. i'm just saying he didn't have to deliver. the interest is still taxed at the same rate. >> let's go to low hanging fruit. how about raise the minimum wage. more people get wages than give them. there's a hell of a lot more employees than employers. if you come out for minimum wage, that's a winning ticket. and the republican party for

some reason is opposing it. aren't they? >> she's going to continue to talk, but when is she going to engage people? everything that she discusses is very controlled and, yes, she's proposing lots of things, but she doesn't want to engage with the media and when are people going to -- >> we'll get to that. it's now june in the year before the election. >> yes. but she'll start talking june 13th this saturday and she'll start talking to the press. >> can't wait to hear it. >> we've got a year. >> it will be a long year. >> there's a lot of territory on the center left you can move over to the left without getting into elizabeth warren country and certainly not bernie sanders. a lot of room over there. the roundtable is staying with us. president obama's attempt to save obama care. this is on the line with the supreme court. it could come down to anthony kennedy. one vote could decide whether the whole thing's gutted or not. ee o'clock. four o'clock pop. ♪ five, six, seven o'clock. eight o'clock pop. ♪ ♪ nine, ten eleven o'clock ♪

♪ twelve o'clock pop ♪ ♪ we're gonna pop around the clock tonight. ♪ pop in new tide pods plus febreze a 4 in 1 detergent. now with 24-hour freshness. seriously? you're not at all concerned? about what now? oh, i don't know. the apocalypse? we're fine. i bundled renter's with my car insurance through progressive for just six bucks more a month. word. there's looters running wild out there. covered for theft. okay. that's a tidal wave of fire. covered for fire. what, what? all right. fine. i'm gonna get something to eat. the boy's kind of a drama queen.

just wait. where's my burrito? [ chuckles ] worst apocalypse ever. protecting you till the end. now, that's progressive. [ female announcer ] take skincare to the next level with roc® multi correxion® 5 in 1. proven to hydrate dryness illuminate dullness lift sagging diminish the look of dark spots and smooth the appearance of wrinkles. high performance skincare™ only from roc®. four years ago rick santorum won the iowa caucuses but times have changed for rick. yesterday on the campaign trail in iowa, he attended an event that was attended initially by a single person and she was the chairperson of the county republican party. eventually a number of people swelled to four people in attendance. to his credit santorum put a good spin on the low turnout saying it's not glamorous and you're not out there raising money but you're doing what the money is ultimately supposed to do, getting votes. this is a lot more fun than being on the phone raising

money.

santorum put a good spin on the turn out, saying it's not

people have, they don't like obamacare, but they don't want those subsidies stopped. they want to keep the money coming for health care, here is the question. why does the president say he doesn't have a plan strategically -- squeeze kennedy and roberts on the court and say if you blow it up it can't get fixed. >> right, they have to be willing to have this unfold, if they veto their decision -- >> interesting thing, the poll that came out that everybody is talking about. it said democrats like the law and like the subsidies. the republicans and independents

that were polled say they don't like the law. but they don't want to take away the subsidies. and see, that is interesting because i think republicans are being you know, painted -- they don't like the poor. but the thing is, they don't like the law. but they want some sort of subsidy for low to moderate income people so that we don't have everybody using the er as health care. so the question is how can we keep this subsidy and what can we do to keep the parts of the law that we do like? >> chris, the poll that you just cited, what it tells you if the supreme court invalidates the subsidies, invalidates -- what is the word i'm looking for -- >> the federal exchange -- >> right, invalidates the exchanges. that means that the republicans on capitol hill will feel the heat. yes, the american people will be

angry and upset and probably angry at the president but ultimately the plan b has to come from congress. >> absolutely. >> and they have had five years. >> well, what if their plan to fix it, ryan, is we get rid of the individual mandate. we kill obamacare some other way. >> we're trying to do it, but they will run against real public opinion, think about in the past years, people's high deductible plans were cancelled, and they could get better plans at a lower rate, but just thinking about the spasms, people trying to take action. if you tell me that millions will be thrown out of the insurance and republicans will stand for it -- >> and case workers on capitol hill, they deal with these problems every day. thank you, when we return, let me finish with the likelihood now that donald trump will in fact, now, run for president. we'll be right back with "hardball" the place for politics.

finally let me finish with the likelihood that donald trump will actually run for president this time. me trumps you. so fasten your seat belts, jeb

bush, and scott walker, you're in for a bumpy ride, trump will go after you, knock you heard and see if you go down. will you attack him back? that is the question for you in the republican fight of 2016. if trump does get in the ring will anyone else get out alive? let's remind ourselves about a distraction. trump if he goes in will not be going in to show off, he will be going in to win the nomination. can they take a punch? can they? can they act as if the man has not just attacked their character, dignity, the rationale for being there in the first place? so all bets are off. the only question is whether he can take a showman's performance in the debate and convert it to victory in the caucuses and primaries. but those are months from now. what happens if the big name, the big voices coming out this december will be one donald trump? will there be any life in other republican candidates once he

does his number on them? it should be interesting. then again, trump often is, even when he is being irresponsible, which when it comes to politics, he often is. and that is "hardball" for now. thank you for joining us, all in, with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight, on "all in" the issue of race. >> there is watching the video the white people were not talked to, told to get on the ground, told to get put in cuffs? >> my interview with the white police officer who said that the mckinney pd has a race problem. and now, the gop begins to realize the looming disaster if obamacare goes down at the supreme court. >> there is something i have to say just cynical about the ceaseless partisan efforts to roll back progress into --