now. >> tonight on "politics nation," news. a judge says there's probable cause to charge a cleveland police officer with murder in the shooting death of 12-year-old tam irrice. also 2016 hopefuls need some vice and they're going on a retreat with mitt romney to get it? and an ugly war on the poor. a civil rights issue that needs to be address think. welcome to "politics nation" i'm live from buffalo new york. we start with breaking news. an ohio judge has found probable cause that a cleveland police officer should be charged with murder in the shooting death of 12-year-old tamir rice.

this opinion is just an advisory statement. the decision to actually charge timothy is still up to the grand jury. but the judge's opinion had some powerful words about what happened in that park when tamir was shot while playing with an air gun 201 days ago. the judge says quote, the video in question in this case is in or the just and hard to watch. after viewing it several times, this court is still thunder struck by how quickly this event turned deadly. he added the video does not display the toy gun in tamir's hands. there appears to be little if any time reflected on the video for rice to react or respond to any verbal or audible commands.

and the entire encounter is over in an instant. the judge also said probable cause exists to charge the other officer in the case with negligent homicide and dereliction of duty. this opinion today comes in response to a motion filed by a group of activists and clergy members. on tuesday they used an obscure ohio law to ask the judge to review the matter directly. tonight it rests in the hands of judge timothy mcginty. he will decide whether to charge the officers. but today's opinion could certainly affect how the public views that process. joining me from cleveland, one

of the clergy members who filed court papers an outstanding leader in that community. they filed the payments asking the judge to review the case. we are also joined by ari, nbc's chief correspondent and co-host on msnbc. thank you both for being here. >> good evening. >> thank you for having me. >> reverend what is your announcement first of all? >> obviously, having been part of what we call in the cleveland eight, those individuals who filed the citizens affidavit, we are pleased to see that the judge saw what millions of others saw around the world. the 12-year-old boy did not have a chance in any way, shape or form to demonstrate any aggressive behavior in less than two seconds his life was taken. for us we know that this is only a part of the judicial process.

that the wheels of justice slowly grind. we know this was an aggressive step in letting this process know and the world know that there is a judge and there are people who know that lives matter and this young boy's life matters. >> the strategy behind this you and the cleveland eight went and took an obscure law, filed this with the judge. though he did not and could not directly charge. but he released what struck me as a very powerful statement, saying there was no toy gun in tamir's hands. say the it happen in an instant. saying there was no time for tamir to react and saying this while the world is looking at cleveland, while lebron and them are doing the championship games. this is a very serious impact on the public if not on the actual charging of the officers.

>> absolutely. we're all in with the cavs but more, we're all in for justice. people are talking about this is a 60-year-old law. but the oldest law is thou shall not kill. for us invoking the code it is part of the same subsection in which is also given the right to officers to file charges when they are, in doing their duties. it is a part of that same code and that same provision. we simply exercised that. for us as we studied and researched ways in which we can begin to exercise citizens' power, we realize there was a tool on the books in which we could use the tools of democracy in order to use this. it is for us really, really important as we become a part of this larger movement for law enforcement reform around our country.

we've seen response that was unproductive. with the naacp, the legal defense funnel that grand tradition, we have used the law to advance the cause of equality and the cause of democracy in this country. >> ari, what impact on the legal side does this have on the overall investigation into whether charges will be filed in this case by this prosecutor and the grand jury? >> i think this kind of order has a real world impact. the video on the screen the video that so many have seen and debated exists out in the real world. this is an independent judge issuing his own independent conclusions br what the video sxheens whether the probable cause standard, that lower standard whether there is a justification for charges. that's significant because it is new today. it wasn't the case yesterday. six months into an

investigation, this really is the first statement from the legal process. having said that as you mention in the your set-up to this news it is certainly true that there is no automatic legal trigger here and the judge in carroll legal language emphasizes that in the order. saying that while it is possible that a prosecutor through the grand jury system can base further charges, partly on what was found here. it is legally significant. they do not have to under the state laws of ohio while there is a mechanism, it is up to the sole discretion of the prosecutors how to handle the case. the only other point i'll make which is somewhat obvious but certainly true is that these kinds of cases aren't processed in a vacuum to begin with. there is tremendous pressure on d.a.s who work the police day in, day out to process every other case. to be very careful when they're dealing with allegations of

police misconduct. so for these are concerned that there is a potential conflict which doesn't mean there is anything wrong with what the police or the prosecutors are doing. but rather an inharnl conflict with working so closely with people and turning around and trying to investigate them. this is an independent adjudication of the issue that is counter valg pressure that is pressed against that. hey, look what a judge found. there is a potential crime here. so ultraimatelyultimately it doesn't automatically do anything. >> i'm certainly one that has raised the possibility of a conflict all across the country. i'm in buffalo speaking on that now. we've just received a statement from prosecutor timothy mcginty. this is what he says. quote, this case as with other, with all the fatal use of deadly

force cases involving law enforcement officers will go to the grand jury. that has been the policy of this office since i was elected. ultimately the grand jury decides whether police officers are charged or not charged. what do you read from that? and what concerns me, and as people know i've been out to cleveland, spoke at the justice revival. so i'm very concerned about this case. as many americans are that it come to a just conclusion. but the question remains, this is the same prosecutor that took over almost two years to prosecute in the case that we just saw, the acquittal. he took almost two years to even bring charges there. where 140 shots were shot at two unarmed people in a car, ari. could he try to wait this out? and people forget what this

judge said? >> i don't want to prejudge his process here with the grand jury and we don't know of course what's happening in that process as they go through it. it is generally fairly secret under the rules. i will say that it seems potentially problematic in the statement you just read for him to put so much of the onus or the burden on the grand jury itself as if that is somehow something the jurors are doing. i think any lawyer will tell you, whether they're prosecutorial or defense minded everyone knows in the american system the prosecutor has great weight had they present to the grand jury. one of the concerns is that on every other normal day in case the prosecutors come in and push hard to get indictments. then suddenly in some cases of alleged police misconduct it is a different mode and they're league it to the jurors. not to prejudge this case. too early to know. the wording there does raise that kind of concern.

>> doesn't the fact that this judge came out after you filed this tuesday, in less than a week he came to a conclusion how can the then prosecutor not act in a reasonable point of time to bring this to a grand jury and proceed? certainly he is under pressure to deal with what a judge, an independent judge had to say in a very short period of time. saying there's nothing there. there's no gun in his hand. there is no audible or verbal response that he could have given, that he heard that he could have responded to. >> absolutely. now we have had a judge look at the video. we've had the county sheriff to conduct investigation. and now even the county prosecutor said he will conduct his own investigation. the world is now watching. so interesting from that statement that you read 99.9% of people who go through grand

jury process don't get the luxury of going into the grand jury process without there at least being a charge. what the prosecutor is saying, he is not only talking about an indictment. that he would have these officers and have the evidence presented against these officers without even a charge. and it's not what we see every day. you work on these issues i work on these issues at a state level. 99% of the people who go through grand jury process, when they have already been arrested they go into the grand jury process already having been charged. then it is upon the prosecutor to lay out the case to substantiate any number of those charges. what you're hearing from mr. mcginty potentially without having them charged, they would go into the grand jury maybe offer self-serving testimony out which he could determine whether it is a charge and an indictment. i would like the hear from the attorney also being interviewed. i'm not sure if that's what 99%

of the people who go through the criminal justice system experience. almost as if police are protecting. >> i don't know if it is 99%. but as we wind up i know that in the last several weeks, we saw in south carolina in the deem south, an officer was arrested and charged and he was just indicted by the grand jury this week. we saw in baltimore a charge. just an indictment this week. so clearly what you're saying has been a pattern, we've seen recently in different parts of the country, including the deep south. so i think the onus is on this prosecutor. i am reminded the former chief new york in new york you, if a prosecutor wants to he can indict a ham sandwich.

the world will be watching to see when this prosecutor does. particularly now judge has said this. an not independent judge looking at the evidence. thank you both for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> make sure you watch ari on the cycle, weekdays at 3:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. coming up where are the two killers on the loose? today, a potential lead with dogs picking up a scent. and did a prison worker help them escape because she was in love with the killer? also the war against women's rights. why proposed abortion restrictions hit poor women the hardest. a civil rights issue we need to talk about. and a celebrity reporter interviewing president obama gets personal on how obamacare saved his life. he joins us ahead.

>> thank you. because you pretty much saved my finances and my life. >> i know the story of you sort of battling courageously against an illness. audible safety beeping audible safety beeping

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now, a potential lead in the manhunt for the murderers who broke out of the prison in upstate new york six days ago. today, police swarming this wooded area just miles from the prison. after a police dog picked up the scent of one or both of the escaped inmates. more than 500 law enforcement personnel in the area looking for richard matt and david sweat. they're using search helicopters, closing roads and

telling residents to lock their doors. a new folks today on joyce mitchell. sources familiar with the investigation telling nbc news she planned to be their getaway driver and that richard matt charmed mitchell and quote, she thought it was love. mitchelld to be charged with a crime and she is talking to investigators. we'll be following this story. exactly. that's what pushes us to deliver smarter simpler faster sleeker earlier fresher harder farther quicker and yeah even on sundays. what's next? we'll show you.

have you noticed a trend? everyone seems to be talking about income inequality.

not just democrats. republicans too. you can't deny it will be a deal fining issue of the 2016 election. that's why what is happening right now is kind of funny. top republican hopefuls are gathered at this utah resort for a three-day retreat with mitt romney. yes. the candidates are looking to mitt romney for help. marco rubio, scott walker john kasich lindsey graham carly fearino, they want his advice. maybe it's smart. with the country demanding fairness, they can learn a lot from his mistakes. >> 47% of the people will vote for the president no matter what. there are 47% who are with him. they believe they are victims, they believe the government has

a responsibility to care for them they believe they are excited to health care food housing, you name it. >> this was a peek into romney's world. the haves and the have-nots. it was a defining moment for the campaign and for the country. romney would later agree, saying it did, quote, real dang to his campaign. today income equality is dominating politics. look at this number. 66. 66% say the district of wealth should be more even. but these candidates aren't getting it. they still sound just like mitt romney. >> state waivers from obamacare to begin its repeal. >> repeal and replace obamacare. >> propose that we bring our rate from 35 to 25.

>> i will act to speed the approval of the key stone pipe line. >> we are stupid as a nation not to have agreed to build the pipeline. >> the spread of the culture depend yhency. >> noble stops my year book dear scott, good luck. that's not the american dream. >> if the gop wants a chance they need to change and get real about the middle class. get real on minimum wage. real on taxes. and get real period. joining me now, e.j. dionne from the "washington post" and jamal simmons. thank you both for being here. >> good to be with you. >> e.j. have 2016 republicans learned anything from the 47% comments? >> i suspect mitt romney will tell them make sure when workers are working the fund-raiser, have them leave their cell phones outside the door. and i suspect he is going to

tell them never use the words self-deportation. but i think there's something important about that 47% that suggests republicans have solved the problem. david said he was speaking words deemly held in the republican party. people have been talking that way in the party a long time. about makers and takers and all that kind of thing. so it wasn't a shock to anybody in that room. i think it just came the donor base especially. the primary base is with the to the party. they have to say a lot of things that could hurt them in the election. it is not just liberals they lose. barack obama carried moderates by final points over mitt romney. and if they keep talking like, this they're going to lose

moderates again. >> jamal, the 2016 check policies sound just like mitt romney's. should that make republicans worry? >> that they should absolutely be worried. here's the problem. the publics have been out there telling people they wanted to get back to a flat tax. telling people they wanted to get rid of obamacare. ted cruz said he wanted to repeal he have one of the executive orders. that means the one that saved the dreamers the young people brought here as children from other countries. that means he wants to repeal the order that keeps them from being sounded by the immigration police. >> as soon as the republican gets over eating the pigs national blanket at the state fair. they're going to know they don't want any of them in the white

house. >> but e.j. isn't this going to be about fairness? i want to show you this poll. this is on the issues of income inequality. 57% say americans should do more to reduce the gap. 68% support raising taxes on millionaires. and 71% support raising the federal wage to $10.10. >> the issue is why republicans can't get a lead on hillary clinton. if you look at the polls, hillary clinton has had a pretty rough six months. there have been story after story about her and the clinton foundation and she's lost some ground on some of her ratings. she is still running ahead of

republicans. why is she doing that? because on a whole lot of issues, the country is closer to her and the democrats than it is to them. i think we'll have a really interesting moment. she announces on saturday. she is going to be giving a lot lot of speeches. i think it is interesting to see how the republicans react to that. on a lot of issues she'll pick they'll be very popular. thing like family leave or better childcare. higher minimum wage. it will be a real test for them this summer. >> let me go to a related issue, at the 2012 after that campaign, romney said he failed to reach out to minority voters. listen to this. >> we weren't effective in taking my message, primarily to the minority voters. that was a real weakness.

we've got to do a better job taking our message to them to help us understand why we are the party with the ideas to make their lives better. >> how are the 2016 republicans doing in that area? >> the only one who is doing everything remotely associated with people of color is rand paul who has been fairly outfront talking about criminal justice issues and police militarization. for the rest candidates we haven't heard anything and their policy there's take us into the direction. i have a suspicion that every time jeb bush is on the news his name is a negative ad for republicans. the very fact that you say bush is a negative ad. meanwhile, hillary clinton, her name is like a positive ad for democrats. people have a good feeling with the bill clinton era. bad feelings about the george bush era. so they'll be digging out of that hole as long as he is on

the scene. >> he mentioned rand paul who is not at the retreat. he nevered jeb bush. you wrote an article saying he has she said in front to one of several candidates jumbled toward the top of an increasingly crowded field. what went wrong with jeb bush? is there a gop front runner now in your opinion? >> i don't think there is a front runner. that is a very good piece that talks both about structural problems and some real infighting in that campaign. i think he was never as strong as he looked. partly because of the name. it is not just that bush was unpopular with liberals or democrats, a lot of conservatives think bush was too moderate and they're holding that against jeb bush.

i don't think he was prepared. when he couldn't answer a question about what he would do about iraq and how he responded to his brother's policy he should have known that question was coming about one year ago and he wasn't ready. >> e.j. deion and jamal, thank you. still ahead, president obama's extra push on health care. a surprising personal twist when a reporter tells the president obamacare saved his life. but first, a license to discriminate in north carolina. we'll give you that story next. sunday dinners at my house... it's a full day for me, and i love it.

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upheld a texas law that could force all but eight abortion clinics in the state to close. right now, more than half the states have at least four abortion restrictions in effect and women are pushing back. >> this is a nationwide fight against women and texas is grounds. we refuse to be silent. >> the implication that women are incapable of personal pregnancy decisions themselves without the interference of state lawmakers is beyond insulting. it is ridiculous. >> the fate of the center, the judge decides whether or not to uphold a ruling to shut it down. any legislation that takes away choices from women i believe harms women. it harms everybody. >> this attack on women's rights is also an issue of social justice and fairness. these rulings disproportionately affect low income women and

women of color. take a look at this. a woman seeking an abortion in texas would need to take a day off work to go to a clinic. she will miss work and she may not get paid. there's a mandatory 24-hour waiting period. another day off work. another day without pay. with clinics shutting down she may have to drive over 150 miles to see doctor. if she doesn't have a car, she is out of luck. if she already has a child, which a large percentage of women seeking an abortion do she would have to find childcare while she is away. who will pay for that? and then there is the cost of the procedure itself. without insurance, that could be upwards of $1,000. the more barriers that go up, the more it affects the most vulnerable women in our society. joining me now, terry o'neill,

president of the national organization of women and linda, president and ceo of black women's health imperative. thank you both for being here. >> thank you for having us. >> great to be here. >> terry, are these attacks on abortion rights a particular problem for low income women? >> they absolutely are, reverend. two thirds of minimum wage workers are women. very disproportionately women of color. minimum wage workers are the ones who don't have health insurance and they don't have paid time off. exactly what you were talking about. the delays, the requirement of going to the doctor twice, the shutting down clinics, some women in texas are now going to have to drive upwards of 300 miles just to get to an abortion clinic. by the way, the abortion clinics also provide other reproductive health care services so you are

withholding services beyond abortion. so you're making life much much harder especially for the most vulnerable women and it is a complete outrage. that's why the national organization for women is calling these anti-life as well as anti-women legislation. >> isn't it time to start thinking about access to abortion as an issue of fairness and social justice? >> it absolutely is. access to abortion is part of health care. this is a reproductive justice issue. when women don't have access to services, as you've mentioned, then they can't make the best choices for themselves. when we're talking about low income women and women of color who can't get this kind of access and are forced to have children they are not financially prepared for. that then plunges them deep entire poverty and their children into poverty and we know that children who are born into poverty have about a 1 in

25 chance of ever getting out of poverty. so this issue actually cause many women to live in poverty and may never get out of it or their families. >> terry, in an interview this year on msnbc, supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg talked about how poor women are affected by these abortion restrictions. listen to this. >> it is not true that it is inaccessible women of means. that's the crying shame. we will never see a day when women of means are not able to get a safe abortion in this country. who does that hurt? it hurts women who lack the means to go someplace else. all the restrictions they operate against the woman who doesn't have freedom to move to go where she is able to get

safely. what she wants. >> what's your reaction to the justice? >> she's absolutely right. in fact it is as if we've been pushed back to the 1950s. part of the reason why roep v. wade was decided the way it was, justices realized well-off women were able to get safe abortions. it was the lower income and in fact middle income women who were restricted. and why should they have good access to health care and all the others not have good access. we cannot allow men like antonin scalia and saul you'll alito to push us back. we're not going to allow them to do that. >> the reason i'm talking about this today, we're bringing it up because lindsey graham is still pushing this issue. they're still pushing this. and he came out big and bold and

strong this today as a presidential candidate. and a member of the senate. i want to go back to something terry said. that these clinics don't just provide abortions. they provide a lot of other health services. breast and cervical cancer screenings diabetes and high pressure screenings wellness services family planning services. >> these services are absolutely vital. think about these clinics. this is where a lot of women have their usual source of primary care. if it were not for these clinics, they wouldn't have access to care. these screenings they save lives. many women are alive because they had access to these services. if they suddenly have to drive 300 miles to get access to a mammogram, for example, or cervical cancer screening, they won't do it. as you said they'll either miss

time from work, not get paid or many times just get fired. they don't have positions of power in their employment. this is what will happen and we'll see it happen across the country if these restrictions take place the way they've been proposed. >> terry o'neill and linda, thank you both for your time. >> thank you. coming up, jeb bush is responding to those comments he once made about shaming single mothers. and an interview with president obama gets personal. from the reporter who says the president saved his life. he joins me next. across america people, like basketball hall of famer dominique wilkins, are taking charge

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within the next few weeks, the supreme court is set to make a major ruling on obamacare that could lead millions of people without coverage. president obama says this sanity political issue. it is a moral issue. this law should be kept because it saves lives. one of those helped by the law is jerry, a correspondent on the "extra" tv show. he was diagnosed with cancer but was able to get treatment

because of the affordable care act. today, he got a chance to interview the president about the laws that helped him. and has helped so many others. >> thank you because you pretty much saved my finances and my life. >> jerry, i know the story of you sort of battling courageously against an illness. one of the goals for the affordable care act was not just to help people get insurance who didn't have it. it was to give better protections for people who already had insurance. >> i think a lot of people don't understand that. >> you were a perfect example of somebody who could be caught with debilitating bills or not getting the care you need. >> this has nothing to do for me with politics. >> that it made a difference in your life. >> that it made a difference in my life. >> i appreciate that. >> joining me now, "extra"

correspondent, jerry, thank you for being here. >> nice to see you after all these years. >> nice to see you as well. i want to hear more about your story. tell us how this law helped to save you. >> well basically in 2010 i was diagnosed with melanoma stage three. obviously a very serious diagnosis. about a month later i was given the old 1-2 punch with the diagnosis of thyroid cancer unrelated. at the time i had been for probably a decade before that i had been dealing with a blood disorder that is very common actually. where your platelets become very dangerously low. it has a long name which i won't bore you with. that issue actually took my insurance benefits to just an all-time low. when i was diagnosed with these

two forms of cancer my benefits ran out. my lifetime benefits maxed out. so i was sitting at home sick and calling social workers, trying to find out how i was going to be able to pay these bills. now, i'm just a middle class individual. imagine all the other people who don't have a platform like this to really tell their story. so once the affordable care act was enacted, you know i heard an hallelujah chorus in my head and everything else because my lifetime benefits were back. and there was even better news. there was no cap. >> what is so striking with your story, here you are, clearly a successful person. solid middle class american. not looking for a handout.

not a freeloader but just got beyond the pains of what you could do. thank you for letting us show that. as em this is not just said looking for insurance for the first time. this is somebody who did the right thing to do. cover themselves. and it went beyond your ability to be able to afford it. >> yeah. >> i want to make this really clear. that for me and i said this to president obama today, this doesn't have anything to do with politics. i am not taking a stance on the affordable care act. it is very polarizing as you know. and there are people at home who are against and it want it repealed saying well whatever. here's a guy that could have afforded any treatment. that's not true. i couldn't. >> the issue that you raise about it is polarizing the affordable care act. but i don't feel it should be. on many issues i take positions

are polarizing to some americans. we're talking about health care. we're talking about you who we watch on "extra." we're talking about moms and dads who just need to sustain their health insurance. that shouldn't be polarizing to anyone. >> yes. and president obama would agree with you. the bottom line is no matter what you think, whatever his stand is. this law helped me. aid good experience. that's it period. plain and simple. >> well i appreciate you coming on and sharing it. and again, it has nothing to do with politics. it is your story. i don't know if you voted for romney or obama and it doesn't matter.

what matters is that you're able to do what you need to do to remain yourself. thank you for your time tonight and congratulations on the interview with the president. >> thank you very much. >> you can watch more of jerry's interview with the president tonight on "extra." check your local listings for the time. coming up jeb bush speaks on that controversy over his comments he made audible safety beeping audible safety beeping audible safety beeping the nissan rogue with safety shield technologies. the only thing left to fear is you imagination. nissan. innovation that excites.

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this allergy season, will you be a sound sleeper, or a mouth breather. well, put on a breathe right strip and instantly open your nose up to 38% more than allergy medicines alone. so you can breathe and sleep. shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right. today jeb bush addressed those controversial comments about single moms that he made back in a book back in 1995. he wrote, quote, one of the reasons more young women are giving birth out of wedlock and more young men are walking away from their paternal obligations is that there is no longer a stigma attached to this behavior. no reason to feel shame. their parents and neighbors have become ineffective at attaching some sense of ridicule to this behavior. does governor bush still feel

this way? that single mothers should be shamed and ridiculed? he was asked about it earlier today. >> as it relates to the book the book was written in 1995. my views have evolved over time. but my views about the importance of dads being involved in the lives of children hasn't changed at all. >> he says his views have evolved. but he side stepped the specific comments about shaming single moms. millions of single moms deserve a full explanation. >> the country has moved in the wrong direction. 40% plus out of wedlock birth rate. if you think about this from the perspective of children it is a huge challenge for single mom to raise children in the world that we're in today.

>> single moms do face challenges. but they should be celebrated for all they do. not shamed. after my parents broke up i was raised by a single mom. i know the struggles they could face and they don't need it added to their struggles to be shamed and to be ridiculed. and to be suggested by someone who wants to lead their nation. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. still trying to catch him. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews. are the guys close? are they in the wooded area in day six of the guys