♪ you know mika -- >> good morning, everybody. >> i'm man enough. >> how are you all feeling? >> i'm man enough. >> you are? >> i am man enough. >> what? >> to be a girl -- scout. man enough to be a girl scout. i got this last night at your event. i have no idea what it means.

i like it. >> your timing was perfect. >> it was impeccable. you were about to slew profanity, instead, you sly at a synagogue. you will notice, everybody is formally dressed. i came in shorts and a johnny o shirt straight from kate's softball game. but just in time i walk in. it's right by my house. this place is right by my house. it's crazy. so i walked in. i walk up. and you said but phil said you need to say the words and then it was the mf word. she will say publicly. >> i will not. >> in synagogues. >> no. >> and i said -- i had to interrupt. don't say that. >> very funny. it was very funny. great vent. the girl scouts of connecticut. i was so glad to be there. >> tell me about it. >> they gave me an award. >> what award? you got kicked out of the scouts as a brownie. why did you get kicked out? >> i was a little naughty.

>> naughty. >> i know you have a hard time believing that. >> i was naughty. i called my aunlt int in the south of france on my cell phone. >> this is going to bother me for the whole show. you swore at synagogue. >> no. >> don't lie. it was the synagogue in washington, mika. >> sixth and i? >> yes. >> and she said mother f like three times. >> no. >> no good. >> this is not helping. >> okay. i don't know what that means. >> jeremy is here. >> i'm not going to swear. >> it was a long time ago. i think there may have been some medication involved. >> anyway girl scouts of connecticut, they do incredible things. >> yes they do. i was so happy to be able to support them. they're trying to raise money for the healthy living initiative. something really important. i think girls need to start really young. you have to really learn how to

eat well and stay fit and they're working. >> that's why do they sell all the cookies then? >> there were no cookies last night. >> stop i need the short bread cookies. >> nothing wrong with the cookies. >> i get the short bread cookies and i put hos dogstdogs all around them. >> sounds delicious. >> i don't want anything called a thin mint. some people say is healthy. two of your tv friends were there last night. >> yes. diane smith who co-wrote obsessed with me. >> okay. very good. listen, we're going to get to this in a little bit. a really big story. i know it is causing a lot of concerns among the left. a lot of foreign policy leaders and generals obviously very happy about the fact jeremy peters that barack obama is actually looking to add bases and troops in iraq. and as we said yesterday, the

announcement yesterday wasn't enough. it was just step one. >> i think this is always been kind of what's wrong with this debate over will there be troops on the ground? won't there be troops on the ground? >> boots on the ground. >> of course there will be boots on the ground n this instance, there have to be a lot more. this is proven to be such a big problem. >> so if you're a liberal in america, you got hillary clinton. hillary clinton is going to obviously support boots on the ground. she's going to be aggressive. that's how she was at the state department. that's how she was as a senator. her husband intervened so much. republicans were complaining about all of his interventions. then on the republican side i mean, you got ran paul maybe saying don't do it. so if you're a liberal, you really got nowhere to go if you don't want -- if you're a moderate or if you're a conservative, it doesn't matter.

it's not singularly -- i guess you're right. >> i think you're right though in terms of today's washington d.c., i think the de facto position is going to be okay we'll tepidly go in with some more support structure. the best question i've heard asked is at the briefing the other day which is you know we have 13 years of history of trying train iraqi troops, trying to prop them up and it hasn't worked. what it is about 450 more support troops? i don't think there is a good answer. >> i think this is a political move. i don't even look at it through the eyes of american politics. i look at it through the eyes of iraqi politics trying to get the sunnis to believe there say reason for them to actually join in and push back in ramadi and other areas instead of turning it over to iranian backed militias. >> hard to understand what's different about this approach

and what would actually be effective about it. of course i think the iran component is one that we have to keep in mind. >> john mccain sf the mindset we can have you know 10,000 troops that are going to support capacity indefinitely. if that's the case then i think the administration -- it's on the inadministration to say this is the time line that we're looking at. this is the longevity that we're looking at. this is more like a baby step on the process to something bigger. >> mika you just pointed this out. usa today article, all in the family. they take a deep dive into the clintons and the bushes. and then the twitter chief out. i use twitter. i don't follow the business of it that much. anybody here know why he's out? >> i can tell you. >> okay. twitter misses a goal. i guess, you know what? i say i don't know much about

this. i know enough. i watch silicon valley every week. by the way, it's getting really good. season premier this week. mike judge, great. >> let's go to upstate new york the man hunt for the two escaped murderers still at large. it's now been six days since david sweat and richard matt were discovered missing from the maximum security prison in dannemora, new york. police intensified the search in a densely wooded area just a few miles from the prison after a police dog picked up a scent of one or both of the escapees. as we reported yesterday, sources familiar with the investigation told nbc news that joyce mitchell the prison employee being questioned by police was supposed to be the get away driver for the two men but that she got cold feet and instead -- >> you were worried about this from the beginning, that somebody had maybe -- >> yeah. >> it sounds like they manipulated her from the little information that's being released right now. and then add to that equation

this is a maximum security prison. no metal detectors? that's how the power tools -- i mean how do you -- and you probably bring them in piece by piece. >> yeah. >> have you read much about this guy's background richard matt? >> they're bad. >> it's blood chilling. >> it's bad and then -- >> he is hannibal lecter. he was so dangerous when they brought him in for trial. they had to have a sharpshooter on the courthouse, they had to double the security presence in the courtroom. they had to remove the glass from the tables because they were frayed he would shatter it and use the shards as weapons. >> so there, is mika you can't put this on a seamstress why is he in the good behavior ward of the prison? why don't we get this answer and so many more from our own stephanie gosk? >> joining us stephanie gosk. what's the scene like there this

morning? >> good morning. this is a major road in this area. it is closed for the second day in a row. schools in this area are closed for the second day in a row. that search zone that you mentioned is still being searched. it's still if lockdown after they picked up that scent. you were talking about what happened behind the walls of that prison and we spoke to a former prison guard who said there is actually a word for what inmates do to some of the prison workers and they call it grooming. and it's about getting in good with prison workers so that you get some kind of benefit. now generally it's small. cigarettes or food or whatever. but in this case, with joyce mitchell, it appears to have been much more than that and those sources close to the investigation are telling us much more about her and her relationship to these two inmates. what would cause someone to risk it all to spring two convicted killers from prison? sources close to the investigation say joyce mitchell told authorities "she thought it was love." there are news reports she was

previously investigated for improper relationship with one of the two inmates. toby mitchell defended his mother earlier this week. >> she is not the kind of person that's going to risk her life for or other peoples lives to let them escape. >> they popped out of this man hole cover between midnight on saturday and 5:00 a.m. nbc news learned that joyce mitchell was supposed to be their get away driver. but whether they got out, she was nowhere to be found. and sources close to the investigation say she got a case of cold feet. her first husband who hasn't spoken to her in almost 20 years believes she could have been manipulated. >> she's from a small town and everything. she could be just a country girl that got sweet talked by some city guy. >> mitchell isn't the first prison worker to get emotionally entangled with convicts. in oklahoma, a warden's wife helped a murderer escape. in new mexico a guard had multiple affairs with female

prisoners. inmates can be cunning. >> they will try to get you down that slippery slope. they will ask for a little favor. then a bigger favor. and then a bigger favor. until all of a sudden they feel they have their hooks, their claws into you. >> reporter: mitchell may have been hooked but in the final hour, it appears she left these two convicts high and dry. nbc's sources tell us it was the older inmate richard matt that actually charmed joyce mitchell. "the wall street journal" is reporting there was an investigation done by clinton correctional within the last 12 months investigating whether or not mitchell also had an improper relationship with david sweat. so with both of these convicts the relationship she had is definitely under scrutiny. >> you're saying there is a possibility of two relationships here stephanie? >> that's exactly right. >> okay. we're going to -- if you're scoring at home we have to -- we don't understand. jeremy peters is talking about

how bad these guys were. and we don't understand. any word on why they were in the wing that was for -- >> honor. >> the honor wing for well behaved inmates? >> one of the things they say that determination actually happens once they're inside the prison and based on the behavior of the inmate inside the prison not what they actually were convicted for and are serving time for. so regardless of what they did, they are then determined -- i guess they get a clean slate when they walk through and then get put in this honor ward. it raises obviously some questions. is that really the best policy? should what they did and what got them there in the first place somehow have some weight carry weight as far as how they're treated inside? another question that they really have to look at is the influence that inmates have over prison workers. it is obviously not all of them.

part of their training they're told how to deal with inmates that are trying to get close to them. they're not supposed to reveal personal information because these guys have a lot of time on their hands and some of them are incredibly cunning. >> right. stephanie gosk thank you so much. >> thank you stephanie. >> let's bring in retired chief inspector for the u.s. marshal service where he led the new york and new jersey fugitive force. we want to ask you about the specific challenges investigators are facing right now six days later. >> absolutely. good morning. it's an intense manhunt on going and has been through the night up in new york. since that dog picked up on that scent and saw a possible footprint and looked further into the woods, they did stumble on to an area that apparently somebody was bedded down. the dogs hit on some fresh tracks. and there was some wrappings there that were consistent with food wrappings that came out of the jail.

so it certainly looks good for investigators that rup there. they got a tight perimeter set up. hopefully they've been contained. i hope they're together and they've been looking throughout the night. >> let me ask you about the honor wing. it's less secure right? >> yeah. i'm assuming it is. i know richard matt had been incourse ratein incarcerated since 2008 and sweat since 2003. i like to call them vicious animals. matt dismembered his victim and sweat killed the deputy sheriff and then ran him over with a car. >> wow. >> to be in an honor wing after that, i don't get it. >> we don't either. thank you so much. we appreciate you being here. >> all right. we have to get to politics now. hillary clinton formally kicks off her 2016 campaign tomorrow with a major speech in new york city. "the new york times" reports she will evoke franklin roosevelt speaking from an island named for the 32nd president and

liberal icon. but clinton's speech could end up disappointing the democrats progressive base. "the washington post" reports it will focus on personal stories and shy away from policy specifics. bill clinton said yesterday he is unsure if donors to his foundation sought favors from hillary clinton's state department. >> okay. so that is kind of -- we're all sort of laughing. >> what? >> all you have to do is see what george steph nop nop list say? >> that's on the daily show. >> always the hope. >> let's have that for the top of 7:00. but, yeah. >> it strikes me as fairly lawyerly to say something like i'm not sure so that doesn't come back and bite you in the you know what. >> so the former sprez confident whatever the motives were they were unaware. >> because they are blissfully unaware of absolutely everything. they don't keep lists. oh, wait they do.

>> can you really say that these companies, these wealthy individuals, these governments, none of them sought anything? i mean some of them did have business before the state department. >> i don't know. you never know what people's motives are. in this case i'm sure everybody gave to haiti in the aftermath of the earthquake and wanted to make a difference. >> you say you don't know if anybody sought any favor. >> no. i don't think hillary would know either. you know she was pretty busy those years. and i don't -- i never saw her study a list of my contributors or -- and i had no idea who was doing business before the state department. >> say it on the air. say it on the air. >> no. >> say it on the air. you know i always say stuff on the air. that's what makes this show this show. you say things and you jump off the cliff. >> i'm so interested in marco

rubio's driveway. >> as opposed to this? >> whatever. >> there are absolutely legitimate questions about how marco rubio handled his finances. if you look at his history, this is a guy always operated within the rule. >> we'll go to that. >> his finances raise a larger question about his judgment and good sense and whether or not he is somebody who can manage the way he claims to be. >> mika's bigger point and we'll talk about rubio. the bigger point is with bill clinton going out there -- go ahead. explain on the air what you said off the air. >> i want to know what hillary clinton needs to do saturday to try and put this behind her because what just screams out to me. but, of course we're in the industry of analyzing, of covering. this i got it. of looking for the questions and asking them. and the questions scream out at me what in the world happened

with the foundation and this money and the e-mail server? i'm sorry. those scream out at me. so when i -- you know i look forward to saturday. i want to hear it. but i don't understand how bill clinton can get on stage and say maybe some people haval tearer motives and we're going like okay let's cover marco rubio's driveway. i'm sorry. i'm sure it's fine. it's fine. >> also for bill clinton to say hillary was busy she doesn't keep lists when we could read 1,000 stories about hillary -- hillary didn't know what was going on. the clintons keep lists. there's been one story after another story about somebody who slighted them 14 years ago that are still on the list. >> i it this problem here even for the biggest clinton defenders is that it goes back to the e-mails which is even if they're totally innocent the fact they erased the server doesn't allow you to take away

the innocence. bill clinton has to deal with the messy stuff. put him out. there you talk about the foundation. hillary won't take the questions as much as she can't. and then we'll do this. >> is it better for him to fumble over it than to have her answer? >> if you're under the belief that there's no good way to handle the questions that you're going to fumble regardless who have is doing it let him do it. >> is he a trial balloon? the giant trial balloon? the guy that is better than anybody else doing it and we'll see what sticks and what doesn't stick? >> is he really the best at it anymore? we've seen him flub some questions. >> this is such a horrible -- there's no good answer. that's why hillary has been on lockdown and in bubble wrap for the past three months. >> but wouldn't you say if there is no good answer or if the good answer has been, you know scrubbed and would have been fine to show the e-mails and it's unfortunate for them i

don't know. wouldn't you say get it overwith? get out there, answer the questions, let them come and get bruised up? >> i think that's what they're doing now as much as they can with just bill clinton answering the questions. >> that seems kind of sneaky. >> i think we talked through this and figured out there is no good answer. they're putting bill clinton out. he's better at it than anybody else. and it's even tough for bill clinton. >> i guess the question is for our viewers. why is it okay that while hillary clinton was secretary of state there were all these trades going on and alt earor motives and tv news personalities giving money? >> no. >> why don't -- >> i think it's a real problem for the clinton campaign. >> maybe not. it doesn't seem to be. >> she is unable -- i'm saying in the long run. she's unable to do what bush does which is stand in front of microphones and answer 200 questions. if she stands up there, you're going see hillary clinton. she's not as good at this as her

husband says most people. she's there in front of a microphone. the first person says your husband got $550,000 for making a 45-minute speech in front of x at the same time they were the state department and you were doing y. is that proper? and then she fumbles through that. and then somebody asks the next question. i don't know that there's ever going to be good time for her to stand in front of a microphone and answer those questions. >> and my questions are, and i'll speak personally. i grew up in a family where i saw how a lot of this works from the inside. i'm still in one where i know how ethics and rules and protocol must be followed like to the t, down to $50 gifts. and so i think i'm kind of confuse confused. at the same time, i want to see the first woman president of the united states in my lifetime, i would like to see a democrat win

the next election. i'm going to be transparent. i would like to see her be able to answer the questions. and for there to be a good answer. but i'm not going to pretend the questions don't exist. >> there's a historic nature of it. but at the same time, there are elements of character and policy positions. let's not just make it about the foundation that, are deeply -- not irritating but troubling. >> i feel like there is a real conflict. >> the thing is you talked about your past growing up with your father in the white house. we don't have to go back to the '7 o0s. we can look back at the fact you can't give your sister-in-law shoes -- >> i can't give her sister-in-law shoes. zbh because that's improper. >> that's right. so if a relative can't give a sister-in-law shoes that don't fit her because her brother works in the state department

why can the secretary of state at the same time have a husband who can make $550,000 in a speech that may look like there's an impropriety attached to foreign policy decisions made inside the state department? that and many more questions will be answered straight ahead on "morning joe." >> and maybe it doesn't matter. that's my question for everyone. i'm still kind of struggling. >> still ahead on "morning joe," it is a footprint in iraq where the u.s. is building base there's? army chief of staff general ray says, well we'll see what he says. >> plus a rare look inside a federal prison. kerry sanders is going to join us from a maximum security state penitentiary in iowa where they also have him on the good behavior wing. he'll have a look at the inmates and how they're trying to gain the system.

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all right. while you were away and while we were away we just had the best segment of the morning with mika and jeremy and sam all in a cat fight. it was great. >> jeremy is being a little difficult, i think. >> difficult? what do you mean? >> i think he has a little bit too much -- i don't know. >> all right. >> you work for the "new york times." >> should i go in time-out? >> mika you said if this happened to a republican -- >> i do feel the campaign would be dead. >> you think "the new york times" is underreporting this story. is that right? >> it does not feel like anybody has the guts to truly report on this story and it's coming out because it has to. >> we just went through like three weeks of coverage. >> nobody wants to hear it. >> what don't they want to hear? >> jeremy what don't they want to hear? >> this is the first that i heard someone say "the new york times" hasn't covered hillary clinton enough. >> look there have been pops with this story that have just

gone away. tell me why, jeremy. >> i think this is because this is built into the cake with the clintons. right? >> i'm sorry. what? >> there are always questions about propriety and whether or not they skirt the rules and whether or not they're too legalistic. it depends on what the definition of is is. so i think this allegation -- >> so they don't cover it because it's built into the cake. >> i think we "the new york times," lots of other news organizations are covering this exhaustively. i just think it's harder for these kinds of allegations and questions to stick to her when they've been exhausted for 20 years. >> look at the other side too. brian williams tells a couple of tall tales which no guy ever does. no guy ever exaggerates. what, he's done. it reminds me when i was in congress and i knew that i had the scale with my bare hands to the top of the capitol dome.

no. dudes do that. all right? brian obviously, some real concerns, blah, blah blah. he's being taken care of. they're talking about it. george stephdoes something tham pacts coverage the biggest story of that week. he goes and he rakes an author over the coals, rakes him over the coals. tears him to shreds, talks really fast. he said we've done an investigation at abc news and we found out that -- and a day of two of rustling and then it goes away. now there are just a lot of people who say why isn't the clintons and the clinton people skate and live by a standard and that nobody else lives by. i guarantee you, martin o'malley would be out if this happened to him. bernie sanders would be out. every republican would be out if it happens to him. as mika says everybody is like -- >> so you fwhr congress?

>> well i think -- >> i don't like to talk about it. >> i disagree with one problem. >> go ahead, try. >> let's talk about one element of the clinton's problem. the transparency about the e-mails and records. >> which is okay with everybody. >> it's okay with you and it's okay with you. it's okay with the papers and the huffington post. >> it is absolutely not okay. you say that a republican would be out, gone. >> gone. >> if we recall mitt romney was raked over the coals for a lack of transparency when it came to the tax returns. if i recall he somethinged to be the republican nominee. i just don't agree with the things -- >> did he release tax returns? >> he released one year of complete tax returns. one year. >> by the way, very legal. that's all legal. no impropriety. in fact you had harry looedreid lying through his teeth about

him. i think that is not fair. >> i think it's a big issue. i brant you this is a big issue. i also disagree with you. i think the idea that we're not covering this story is silly. >> if rumsfeld is running for president and wiped the e-mail server clean, tell me what you two would do? >> we would forgive. >> but we had three weeks of coverage of clintons book and the idea we haven't been covering clinton is silly. we're talking about it today on a television program. >> we're covering it but you don't care. >> i do care! i absolutely care. >> i'm sorry, i lost it. >> by the way -- >> i never heard that "the new york times" doesn't cover hillary clinton. >> we're on a morning show and talking about it. >> hold on. i have an announcement. it's like a theater. playing the role of joe scarborough this morning, mika. >> oh, no. >> i appreciate it. >> it's freaky friday. >>, no i'm not. >> girls, know your value.

freaky friday. we switched. go team. i'm going to the south of france. >> you all know i'm right. coming up -- that happens when i'm right. a british report said that donald rumsfeld said former president bush was wrong about the war. >> rumsfeld says the paper is wrong. we'll explain y plus eugene robinson is here for the must read opinion pages. yes says islamic state is far more in control of events than president obama. we'll also have him comment on mika's controversy. ght. sometimes romantic. there were tears in my eyes. and tears in my eyes. and so many little things that we learned were really the biggest things. through it all, we saved and had a retirement plan. and someone who listened and helped us along the way. because we always knew that someday

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mika is still talking about bill clinton versus marco rubio. >> no i'm not. i think i'm talking about something more subtle happening in the media that just i think i've broken. i don't know. i just can't look at it anymore without saying that's happening. you know what i'm talking about. former defense secretary donald rumsfeld says the british newspaper "the times" miss characterized his comments on the war in iraq. "the times" generated headlines in which rumsfeld said former president bush was wrong on iraq. he says this quote was incomplete and the complete

quote was this -- "i'm not one that thinks our template of democracy is appropriate for other countries that every moment of their history, nor has it been appropriate for us at every moment of our history. we have evolved. we're still evolving and we'll be different in 50 years, 100 years ago women didn't vote. 150 years ago, we had slaves and so forth. so the idea that we could fashion a democracy in iraq it seemed to me is unrealistic to a certain extent and the president and the administration would have been better off not allowing the mission to creep that direction. i was concerned about it when i first heard the beginnings of those words. you know what? that's pretty much the same. that's an incredibly important, valid concern. i know some other really brilliant people who had that concern back then and still do today. you can't ram democracy down the tloest a throat of a country that isn't there yet. >> that is the central justification of the war of which rumsfeld is the chief

architect. >> how did he know that and not -- >> i want to know what the clarification is. >> it sounds exactly the same. >> i don't see a clarification, do you? >> eugene robinson writes this in the "washington post," "obama's his tansy sihesitancy on iraq suggests that the skepticism about what at this point must be considered his war. that would explain yes keeps announcing they have no strategy. maybe one does exist but the president doesn't think it will work or perhaps obama is playing for time. maybe he's decided to do just enough to keep the iraqi government from collapsing while giving his generals every chance to make their far fetched training program work. the problem is that in any war the enemy gets a vote and nothing altered the fact that islamic state is far more in control of events than the president." and, gene we've been hearing this for the past couple of weeks. >> yeah. >> you put it eloquently into words. isis is beating us in iraq. you can spin it any way you

want, to but they have the will. they have the momentum. they've got thousands of recruits pouring in. we seem to be fumbling around not just the president. i haven't heard a republican come out and say this is what we shall do and i go oh, my gosh the clouds parted. >> yeah. you listen to what the generals are saying and it's like well we've had success over here and we've had success over there and reminds mef the statements that we used to hear about vietnam. we're making good progress in this area or whatever when in fact they were taking over country. i think the same thing is happening in iraq. it clearly, the initiative is with the islamic state. my colleague has a great column on iraq this morning about the contrast between the two

announcements, president obama in a 450 new troops only 50 of whom are actual trainers. the rest are support personnel. and on the other hand isis released a new video that is just blood thirsty and, you know aggressive and so which one are iraqis going to pay attention to? >> you know one of the reasons we don't have a very clear debate here is because republicans love attacking barack obama and foreign policy. and i sure don't like it as it relates to isis. republicans are ambivalent as well. >> they are. >> there is john mccain, there is lindsey graham, there are a few other neocons that say let's take 50,000 troops in or do whatever it takes. but 90% of republicans that i've talked to in speeches across the country, on college campuses when we go out. they don't want mission creep any more than the liberals we talk to. >> right.

we've all lived through the past ten, 15 years of this. and the tangle of it is the middle east. to my surprise eugene i couldn't agree with you more in your column. i would expand it beyond iraq in terms of the president's strategy which doesn't apply to syria or libya or northern africa where you have others joining us with isis and pledging allegiance to the terrorist organization. i had the opportunity last night to talk with a navy seal who served in afghanistan and iraq and he said that we need to be thinking beyond borders. you know what? in the middle east they do. they don't look at these borders the way we do. they were artificial in the first place. which i think complicates the west's approach to the middle east. >> yeah. hey, we'll be talking more about this in a minute. we have richard haas with us and, gene stay with us. coming up next in the words of veteran advocates, "non-combat,

my ass." >> we'll talk to him about the point of reaction to the administration's plans in iraq. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." you owned your car for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends. three jobs. you're like "nothing can replace brad!" then liberty mutual calls. and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement, we'll pay for a car that's a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance.

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we mentioned the column and the manifesto for the battle in iraq and is more forceful. the american step is careful. troops don't go into battle. they won't call in air strikes and theyry main ryemain in a protective compound. it is a ruthless campaign. which one is going to win? >> obviously, its isis one. the american policy is incremental one at the worst.

it is a president comfortable with the choices and he feels like he can't stick with nothing. he really has three choices, wash your hands of it and watch the carnage. you go in the way john mccain are saying a lot more on behalf of the current strategy. i think there is a third option which is change strategy. i say give up on iraq. this is a sectarian country controlled by iran. shia militias are on the loose. we're directly with the kurds. worked directly with the sunni tribes. begin to have a lather different post iraq strategy. this isn't going to work what we're doing. this is just a president, again, who i think is uncomfortable with his choices and is doing little things. these little things won't -- >> let me play devil's advocate. if the central idea is to get the sunnis to stand up fight and essentially be an army that they haven't been isn't it counter productive to get too far in? if you were to be so aggressive wouldn't they say okay you carry the burden for us again?

isn't that part of the point? part of the point is to get them to carry a larger burden. but who do you mean by them? if iraq is them it's not going to work. you had the shia domination of it. the sunnis and kurds are not going to fight. and the iraqi army is a fiction. it's not going to work. so the reality earntive is whether you pump more into it. i would say not. i think you have to go to plan b. plan b is a post iraq post syria foreign policy. humpty dumpty is not coming back together again. we have to think about a policy that -- >> so joe biden was right all along. is there an american national security interest in sending troops to the middle east to defeat isis as they seize territory and resources? >> there is an american national security interest to see that isis does not dominate the middle east. >> how do we do that? >> first, two reasons. one is terrorism. terrorism is not going to stay in the middle east. it's going go global. second of all, isis is not content to run around the desert in iraq and sear yachlt the day

is going to come sooner rather than later that isis among other things is going to put challenge to saudi arain yachlt saudi arabia twolz the two holiest cities in islam. let saudi arabia presume to be the islamic state. then if isis ever gains control of saudi arabia's oil output. >> is there an american military approach we should be taking? >> a far more aggressive one towards helping the kurds and sunni tribes directly. the problem is -- and i don't have a great answer for it -- is sear yachlt we don't have a ground partner in syria. >> don't we have to get an answer to syria? isn't this a lot like afghanistan where the problems in afghanistan were coming out of pakistan? >> right. i think you're right. you can't have an iraq strategy that can succeed without a american strategy. i think it will require a post

upper assad strategy. it has to be government of syria. it can't be -- >> we're now talking about it so bad that we're now talking about possibly siding with the al qaeda affiliate because they're preferable. >> i think that was in the times or post. >> that's a good example of the middle east where the enemy of the enemy should still be your enemy. they're all poisonous from america's point of view. >> all right. amy holmes thank you so much. richard, sta with us. we're pulling up extra seats four our political roundtable. we have chuck todd and others joining in. >> the most interesting one of that group actually it's you, mika. today, throwing 95 an hour fastballs. >>, no >> no, i'm not. actually, it's the slow balls that you're throwing that you ought to think about. presidential candidate past and present mitt romney will be our guest. plus, carly fiorina will be in

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business. in south carolina two men were arrested for sending threatening emojis posting threatening emojis on facebook. that's something you wouldn't have seen on the police blotter in 1982. allegedly the men attempted to assault an unnamed male at his home in may but this is what put

it over the top. this is real. this is really what they posted. fist with a finger pointing at an ambulance. i was one of the guys that said i wasn't threatening you. i just going to fist pump him and then point him towards the ice cream truck. >> coming up at the top of the hour he isn't an official candidate for 2016 yet. but governor scott walker says supporters are already pushing one likely rival as a running mate. we'll reveal who it s plus bill clinton says he's not sure if donors to the foundation sought favors from hillary clinton's state department. we'll talk more about that very interesting admission. and it's been nearly one week since two inmates escaped a prison in new york. we'll bring you the very latest on the manhunt and reports that there may have been a love triangle. we'll be right back.

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hillary clinton joined instagram and the first photo sf red, white, and blue pant suits. with the caption, hard choices. yeah. everybody agreed it was a great joke and hillary is like what joke? i'm really struggling with this. it was announced that olympic figure skater michelle kwan is a full timed paid staffer on hillary clinton's campaign. yeah. while tonya harding was hired to take care of any other democrats who entered the race. >> good one. >> i like that. >> welcome back to "morning joe." >> it's great to be back on "morning joe." i saw sam stein.

we were in the "morning joe" smoking lounge and sam said -- >> smoking? >> no, no no. i mean pipes. we had our paisley smoking jackets that, sort of thing. >> i'm a big fan of pipes. >> eugene robinson is with us. >> i'm a fan of pipes for many years. >> he is really hyper this morning. >> gee, what is up with mika. >> no he didn't. >> he did, too. >> i said everyone is on the street about mika being -- >> they are not. >> sam stein said that. >> stop it. i do not. i don't. >> she is very sweet off set. >> why, did she apologize to you for trashing "the new york times." >> it's not just "the new york times." it's all of us. >> let's let mika talk. tell us you say, i shouted out who killed the kennedys after all these years. you say this to us. we are the enemy. >> no.

i really think there is just kind of a strange lack of honesty that we struggle with as we talk about this story or choose not to. >> the hillary clinton story? >> yes, a republican candidate in a similar position would be dead in the water. >> so let's do this. do you have the clip of bill clinton? no, i want to kick start you and get you revved up some more. here is bill clinton from yesterday and then we'll have mika from today. let's play it. >> are you really saying that these companies, these wealthy individuals, none of them sought anything? some of them did have business before the state department. >> i don't know. you never know what people's motives are. in this case, i'm sure everybody gave to haiti in the aftermath of the earthquake and saw what they saw on television and horrified and wanted to make a difference. >> you say you don't know if anybody sought any favor, just that there was no -- >> no and i don't think hillary would know either. she was pretty busy those years.

and i don't -- i never saw her study a list of my contributors or -- i had no idea who is doing business before the state department. >> what were you saying? >> no go ahead. >> what were you saying? >> i don't know why he would say that. seems like it's always about one person even when his wife is running for president. that is an incredibly -- i guess he is covering for something that might come out. i don't know. >> anyway he said hillary was too busy to keep lists even though they weren't too busy to keep lists when they were in the white house. but the president said -- president clinton also said that hillary wouldn't know and he didn't know if people would ever seek favors. shocked. he doesn't think. so here's george stephanopoulos though talking about foundation donors before his own donations were revealed. >> i read the book that this is based on. i interviewed the author. this is a tough one. when you actually look at it he

even says there is no evidence of any direct action taken on behalf of the donors. but everybody also knows those donors give that money and president clinton or someone, they get a picture with him. but there is a hope that's going to lead to something. >> of course. >> that's what you have to be careful of. >> i don't understand this idea. the entire system appears to be shrouded in that type of quid pro quo or the appearance. >> even if you don't get an action, what you get is access and the influence that comes with access. that's got to shape the thinking. >> right. >> i think that's what is so bad about it. >> there are so many people that said there had to be something wrong with brian williams to say things he knew were untrue. george steph nop list isanopoulos is talking to jon stewart saying, okay, these donors the third person giving money. obviously they want something out of. this obviously. undercutting what clinton said and secondly jeremy making you look at that clip and go didn't -- how does he do that?

>> someone else give money to the clinton foundation? >> he was saying that -- >> yes. >> not revealing his own. and jon stewart is talking about the lack of transparency and the quid pro quo. >> right. >> it's breath taking. >> you raise a larger point about how does george stephanopoulos credibly continue as the face of abc news through this election season. this is a question that abc news has not addressed. it is particularly interesting question when you think about what role might george stephanopoulos play in a democratic debate? abc has an answer to that. >> because the media doesn't care about this story. >> i care about it. that's why i'm bringing it up right now. "the new york times" cares about it because we've written about it a lot. >> what about brian seltzer and cnn that was the brian williams network for three weeks? again, the bigger point here we're not visiting george's issue. we're talking about what mika brought up how the clintons somehow always live by another standard. >> i actually am not talking

about them. i'm talking about us. >> the media. >> i'm talking about us. and i'm wonldering, i guess i jumped out of the invisible box we're n john heilman, would you like to explain what i'm talking about or do you not have the guts to? >> holy cow! >> i came in here wanting to bring happiness and love to the set. i just want you know make you all happy this morning. and you're just already -- >> you don't have the guts? >> i do not have the guts to. i'm really having so much fun listening to you this morning. >> can i ask a question now? >> why don't you have the guts? >> whether did you stop beating your dog? why don't i have the guts? >> why do you care? >> i'm still trying to figure out what this conversation is b. >> that clintons live on different sfanld ardz ontandards. she is sending out her husband as the trial balloon. this is a woman who cannot stand before microphones and answer questions like any other person

running for president of the united states. there aren't good answers that won't sound bad. >> now i can answer the question. if you go back and play the tape on this show those words came out of my mouth. >> he's so smart. >> i've been saying it's outrageous she is not taking questions from reporters for months. i have said on this show and others that the reason part of the reason she doesn't take questions from reporters is because she does not have good answers to give. >> gene robinson. >> that is the influence that one must draw. >> what am i trying to say? am i alone here? everybody, leave me alone here to hang out to dry. >> nobody is leaving you out to dry. >> mika i'm going to try. please don't accuse me of not loving jesus, okay. i do love jesus. >> that was yesterday. >> i don't think -- look. this is an issue. i do think it's being covered.

i think the questions are being asked. it's -- look i run into this when i write a column about something i think is outrageous. and it doesn't get picked up. it doesn't get, you know it doesn't go viral. and i get all ticked off because it doesn't go viral. but i can't control the way everybody else reacts to it. >> do you think the page is turning? do you think the page turning about george stephanopoulos so cleanly is an example of what i'm trying to talk about? what i'm trying to say? >> you know frankly, i think that's more of a function of the very different ways in which nbc news and abc news reacted to the two scandals if you want to compare the two situations. one thing -- >> there is one difference between the situations and one is about the clintons. >> exactly. one was about the clintons and one is about a much more serious, i think, conflict of interest. it's there. but abc really closed ranks

around george stephanopoulos and sought to essentially short circuit that story by saying don't do it again. >> you haven't answered the question about whether or not he'll do a democratic debate f you're hillary clinton's campaign, do you want george stephanopoulos anywhere near the debate stage whether he has to prove how tough he is on her? >> absolutely not. if you ever want to work on another campaign again, you have to be extra tough on the clintons. so, no. if i'm hillary clinton, no way. i don't want him anywhere near. ironically, the $75,000 that george stephanopoulos gave to the clinton foundation which he would have said to jon stewart he was giving for more access it's actually stopped him from having access. so this all comes on the heels of a big announcement for hillary clinton. i know a lot of you are frustrated at all the talk about

this. i think actually what mika stumbled on to and what we stumbled on to is a very important conversation to v tomorrow you're going to have the presumptive frontrunner and the person running for the president of united states that is the odd on favorite to be the next person running this country for the next four to eight years who starts her campaign in an absolutely fascinating position. first place with tons of money and richard haas -- mika? >> the opportunity to be the first woman to make history, to prove all of her critics wrong through the years and, yet, she's incapable of standing in front of a microphone and answering questions from the media because she is tied up in an ethical knot of her husband and her's own doing. it's an absolutely fascinating position to be in when you're running a campaign.

john heilman? >> oh, no let's just see what happens here. let's see if someone has the guts to say anything. >> i tried before to agree. >> you don't. you can't. >> let's talk about this issue. talk about the bigger question. hillary's campaign. what does she want to achieve tomorrow? but here's all this as a subtext. what does she want to acleave tohieve to put this behind her. >> they have had an idea about how they want to do this campaign. they want to start the way they started with a soft launch and the rollout that they had and they wanted to go big and have the realities. they have to start doing policy announcements, all of this stuff that has -- that have become not just a side show but for some people legitimately the main event is a huge draction.

but -- huge distraction. but what they have learned as a couple is that if they push through and take questions when they want to take them and ignore the questions they don't want to answer is that in the end, it works. and your comment about the complicity of the media is legitimate. i'd say there is also complicity on the part of the democratic party. it's amazing, given all the things you're talking about, her falling approval ratings, unfavorable polls, the numbers that show a lot of americans think she sun trustworthy, it is astonishing to me there is not a stronger democratic field taking her on. why is that? there is no frontrunner with her who had gone through what she has gone through. there is no frontrunner and any other party at any other time that would not have generated a strong field of rivals. she is not, with respect to john webb, she has not generated an a team a tier of a candidates

going after her. they are seen as invulnerable and it is because of the history. they have proven incredibly tenacious and able to bull through controversies in epic ways. >> richard, they've been through controversies before much bigger than this. >> yes. >> the stakes actually were much higher when they were in the white house and much more difficult because personal and they did. they plowed right through it. but hillary clinton's campaign is certainly not oblivious to. this the people around her are so concerned about this. and the moral of "the new york times" report tomorrow she's trying to put the trust issue into a more favorable light for her. i guess that is really the critical goal tomorrow. >> actually i think two things. one is campaigns are individuals under attack. a lot depends upon their ability and willingness to just get through it. so much of history, whether it's governments or politicians under

attack and what is interesting is that it's not just the strength of the attacks, it's the willingness and ability of people to just soldier on. >> compare 1988 gary hart who put up with intrusive questions for a day and a half and then said enough of this i'm going home. and clinton in 1992. it underlines your point. gary hart still looks at bill clinton -- he was like this. that guy got elected four years after i was drummed out of public service? >> exactly. >> but clinton kept up. >> the other thing if you're hillary clinton, it seems to me one thing she is doing is really focus on policy. one of the things -- rather than talking about trust, i actually think every day, every week they ought to start talking about policy issues and change the conversation. otherwise, it's going to be politics that's going to be dominating. >> so we're going to continue this conversation with chuck todd and steve carnacki in a few

minutes. the white house is not ruling out sending even more american troops to iraq. just days after announcing 450 additional military advisors are being deployed to train iraqis fighting isis. it will be part of a lily pad strategy. >> all right. it's a lily pad strategy. >> mini bases where forces are spread around the country a bit more. >> bad idea? >> it's irrelevant idea. this is when you're not willing to face up to the realities and instead you feel the need to do something. this is the alternative. >> so let's follow up on this conversation with -- go to capitol hill with our friend democratic congressman keith ellis ellison. great to see you. i was asking the question where do progressives go as they open up "the new york times" and see on the front page that obama

administration is xbandingexpanding america's presence in iraq. you have republicans that you're saying he's not doing enough. and you've got hillary clinton who probably will not speak out against this strategy. what do progressives do? >> well there's a real fear about mission creek here. look, we know why they're doing it. you have seen isis go into ramadi and other places. they seem to be not being pushed back. so we're taking this action. is this the right action given you have a sectarian conflict. you have a regional dispute going on between saudi arabia and iran. and is 450 or however many they get going to solve the problem? if it doesn't, are we going to go deeper and go more? mission creek is a real risk here. >> so do you agree with the president's approach so far? >> i mean honestly i would have done a no fly zone in syria way back. i think that assad is the heart of the problem.

i think that -- so i guess i have some suppositions that are funneled fundamentally, i wouldn't have got then far down the road. >> richard haas is agreeing with you. he shakes his head at lily pads. >> couldn't it be hot pocket or something? lily pad? what? >> jeremy peters? >> nod of approval here. >> go back to the beginning of the year and what issues congress was supposed to take up. i think the authorization of military force and the debate over iraq and what we should be doing in syria and iraq was going to be one of the biggest things if not the biggest thing congress did all year. what's happened to that? congress has really been missing in action. and that debate has completely dissipated. >> john boehner doesn't want to discuss it. i mean we've been pushing for a real solid debate to flush all the issues out and the aumf would be the occasion for it. but congress has simply

advocated their role. i worry about the equal powers of the three branches of government. if we do not assert ourselves over time the executive will dominate us. and so we've got to dive into this conversation and shake the outcomes. we have legitimate points to make. are a what are we really doing given the sectarian nature of this thing? what is our national interest here? and what are these 400 going to do other than call for more later? so that's -- these -- the debate in congress would and could be really beneficial. i think we need to do it now. >> i thought the congressman made a good point which is we reached a situation now in iraq and syria where we have no good options. part of the problem is it wasn't inevitable it would have been this way. we had options three, four years ago. we didn't take them. things are deteriorating. and now the administration is forced to deal with the consequences of the own inaction in syria.

i think one of the issues now is whether we try to reconstruct those options and begin to create some kind of a zone there from the air. it would take also people on the ground to protect it. it's a big step. i think that has to be something that administration thinks about. much more consequential than the lily pad strategy. >> all right. keith, thank you so much for being with us. >> congressman keith ellison. >> let's go to upstate new york. >> the man hunt for the two escaped murderers on the run this morning. police have intensified their search in a densely wooded area just a few miles from the brings after police dog picked up a scent of one or both of the escapees. as we reported sources familiar with the investigation told nbc news that joyce mitchell the prison employee being questioned by police was supposed to be the get away driver for the two men but got cold feet. joining us now live from dannemora, new york, stephanie gosk. we learned yesterday that joyce

mitchell "thought she was in love with escapee richard matt." now we're hearing reports there may have been a relationship with the other prison david sweat as well. what can you tell us? >> yeah that's right. our sources told us that richard matt "charmed prison worker joyce mitchell" and now "the wall street journal" is reporting she was investigated by the prison for an alleged relationship with david sweat as well. >> reporter: she thought it was love say sources familiar with the investigation about the relationship between convicted killer richard matt and joyce mitchell. but accord together "wall street journal," prison officials suspected mitchell also had a relationship with david sweat. an investigation conducted in the last 12 months didn't find enough evidence to discipline mitchell. but the paper reports that sweat was moved out of her tailor shop. a former guard at clinton correctional told nbc news that some prisoners would target the weakest workers. civilian staffers like joyce

mitchell were not considered as hardcore as the guards. the inmates even have a name for it grooming. >> prisoners are masters of manipulation. >> reporter: he is a former guard at sing sing. >> they're trying to get flirtation. because of the power differential. she has everything to lose and they have everything to gain. >> reporter: sources familiar with clinton correctional say the gain was generally small, cigarettes, food newspapers. but matt and sweat pushed mitchell for much more. sources close to the investigation tell nbc news mitchell was supposed to be the get away driver. but on the day of the escape the 51-year-old didn't show up. instead, checking herself into a hospital with a panic attack. so far there are no charges against mitchell. our sources tell us she's cooperating and she's actually talking a lot and potentially with information that could help in this search. but they also say that those charges are likely to come. >> oh, my goodness. stephanie gosk thank you very

much. >> so we're already talking about you want to do the cast of this? this is unbelievable story. >> incredible. it really is like there is a strange affliction. >> there is no doubt it will be on msnbc "lockup." >> we're going to be talking to steve. gene can you stay for one more block? >> sure. sure. >> yeah. >> not a good time to say no to mika right now. >> i ain't doing that. don't say no to mika. >> i'm going to let richard haas off the hook. >> thank you. >> richard is sitting over here sweating. >> have you noticed that? >> when we were talking, he was just looking. he was the girl with the far away look in her eyes. >> no. i saw his look.

i think you admire me for what i'm saying. >> he's going like this. he's going please don't call on me. i don't want -- >> nope. >> undercut the next commander in chief. >> it's not about that. >> that's not what he was thinking. still ahead on "morning joe," the army chief of staff general ray ordierno. we have a lot more politics to dig into with chuck todd and jeremy peters. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ at chase, we celebrate small businesses every day through programs like mission main street grants. last years' grant recipients are achieving amazing things. carving a name for myself and creating

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scott walker and marco rubio announced we're going to run as a ticket who will be at the top? do you think that is a gimmick or something that vote woerz say that is a strong team? >> i actually had quite a few people, grassroots supporters and others that made that suggestion. i think for now, you know marco is a quality kanld date. he will be foremidable in this case. if we were to get in then we will be as well. we'll see where things take us. >> you like the sound of walker-rubio? >> we joke about it that people mention it.

we have to arm wrestle over who is top of the ticket. >> i want ten other states even though the party establishment was lined up against us so the idea that we can't go on and win, we did go on and win. we had a very strong message that was resonating with voters that we need to get if we're going to win this election. this is democrats, folks in the middle who are middle america who are seeing their wages flat lined, income falling and neither political party addressing them. >> that was mark halpern asking scott walk beret 2016 and rick santorum telling john heilman why he is a viable candidate the second time around. and now the host of up with steve cornacki and moderator of "meet the press" chuck todd and michael enandand gene robinson is

back. >> gene is afraid mika will accuse him of not loving jesus. >> everyone look out. >> a bad day to quit sniffing glue. >> exactly. chuck todd i don't know where to start. >> we have a really interesting sound bite with bill clinton. we could roll that. >> you know see, that starts a 30 minute fight. chuck, have you watched any of mika's performance this morning? do i have to explain? >> i think it's been terrific. i nominate her again. >> okay. very good. >> there's no good answer. >> there is no good answer. i'm trying to think of a good question. >> it's dying -- play the dynasty theme music. that's all i'm thinking about. >> that's interesting. >> tomorrow you have hillary. monday, jeb. it's sort of like okay, here they come. the royal family pains. right? they're rolling out. >> let's not forget about donald

trump on tuesday. >> oh, of course. speaking of royalty. >> thatting about a bigspeaking about royalty. >> and the clintons are doing it as roosevelt island. >> what does hillary have to do? >> the speech we're going to hear tomorrow is a more personal one. it's not something she is comfortable doing in the past. it is not something she is good at doing in the past. there was a headline last night that said maybe it's going to be more rodham than clinton, in terms of talking about her mother and her mother's path in life. i think it may have been one of the challenges for hillary clinton in 2008. it's a challenge she's always had a public communicator. there is a story about when she started for political office she went back to bill clinton one day and told him all these years i didn't appreciate how hard it was what you do as a campaigner and a public face. and now she is struggling. >> that is interesting, steve. everybody has their skills. their skill sets.

pat buchanan talk about political athletes. you look at hillary and it's a fascinating situation. the first time i met her, right after i got up to washington, it was early '95. i campaigned against her all year. i sthed before. i went home and everybody is like what was she like? i said she kind of reminded me of a midwest methodist. but we said this two years ago when she puts that political helmet on that, facade goes. and she suddenly becomes uptight, sort of uptight person that there seems to be such a disconnect from the person and the politician. >> you hear that all the time. from people who had private encounters with her. if you could see, if you the voter could see what i saw, the woman that i saw, the person i saw, you'd have a completely different take on her. >> i said it repeatedly, i like her. >> i think her biggest strength as you're looking ahead to the marathon of a presidential race a year and a half whatever this is going to be. her biggest strength i think is

perseverance. we're talking about her a few minutes ago on the show. she's willing to and she has shown through the years she's willing to stand there and take whatever is thrown at her. you have a plan? we're going to stick to the plan. fit means taking a bunch of hits, we'll do that. >> steve, we are -- you and i have talked nice about hillary for one minute and 15 seconds. mika's lip was curling like elvis' on ed sullivan. let's gomike who is jeb bush going after? you have an exclusive that jeb is going to go after some people on monday. who? >> before that? happy friday. >> happy friday my friend. >> and happy birthday to kevin sheiky and sally bradshaw jeb bush's senior adviser. she turns 50 today in florida. >> come on dude. just say happy birthday. >> we're proud of our ages. i'm 48. let's go on. >> happy birthday.

>> happy birthday sally and kevin. >> and she points out she's in her 40s until noon. >> the thing you're hearing first on "morning joe" on jeb bush's speed on monday in mi am yishgs he's going to take a jab at the other senators in the race. he's going to start out in places you'd expect on his record as an education governor talking about how he became a conservative reformer in order to help people. he'll talk about sort of rand like about how republicans need to be campaigning in untraditional places like the minority campus that he'll be on at that moment. but then he's going to say you can't fix washington from inside washington. people inside washington can't fix it. so that's going right after the four senators in the race including marco, rand ted cruz and lindsey graham. >> fascinating. and i'll ask you what i asked about hillary. what is the goal for jeb on

monday? a campaign seen by many in disarray before it even starts. >> he has a high bar and suddenly it's unclear. you have -- he's had nothing but bad press for the last month or so. you go back to the week long kind of kalamcalamity that was the attempt to end the iraq war, the fact that fund-raising is coming up short of what the goals were they originally set. >> he has $90 million. >> it doesn't matter. he'll still raise more money than any other republican by two or three time. at the same time, when you float a big number and then come up short, people do note that. then you've got all the stories about campaign disarray which have a the love people who are bush supporters and people in the republican establishment wondering what is going on. so he has this moment where what seemed at one point to be kind of a road speech suddenly a lot

of eyes are on him to come out and make a very strong impression, not just on monday but in the days that follow. and try to kind of give the impression he has righted the ship. >> presidential campaigns are the most extraordinary. they reveal character. and they also reveal ability to be agile. i always talk about a maureen dowd column from 2008 talking about how the presidency changes a person because the facts always change so quickly. you have to see how people adapt. jeb is in a position where i said it before sh he was always the smartest guy in the room in tallahassee when he was governor. he is always the smartest guy in the room wherever he goes. but presidential campaigns are mammoth. i think so much of the problems we're seeing here is jeb's trying to do it all himself. because his entire life he's always been smarter than everybody around him. he's going to have to figure out how to turn over the reigns to people he trusts. when they screw up once or twice, he's going to have to

stay with him. he can't do it all himself. >> i think his response, chuck todd, it is june. maybe shows that he expects to evolve on his own and that will is time. i don't know. >> i think it's interesting. when i talked to both campaigns recently about what has been a sluggish start hillary clinton and jeb bush let's be realistic. it's been on one hand, yes, behind the scenes they're going to raise the most money and all this stuff. but they both have been sort of -- it seems, struggling to sort of create momentum answer the why they're running question, all these things. and the answer from both sides is the same. well we're the candidates that's going to be prepared to grinld grind it out, go the long haul. you know we're not going to pay attention to what things are moving right now. this is about six being able to be in a position six months from now, 12 months from now. and you just wonder okay they're both grinlders. i buy that. i buy the idea they can grind their way to the nomination.

but, boy that, is a joyless way to campaign. >> and -- >> and both of them look like they don't enjoy this. >> both of them do seem to be like they're in a joyless exercise. >> yeah. >> you know you keep waiting for one of them to catch a spark. but they got these questions to answer. they've got this overhang. hillary clinton has the whole clinton thing overhang. always going to be there much she's always going to be fighting through. the same with jeb bush. he has a whole dynasty question that he's always going to have to deal with. i don't know that they can find a simple easy way to dispose of all this baggage. >> i think that steve, hillary clinton has an easy way of disposing it she just doesn't talk about it. people don't care. >> the whole idea if hillary clinton, if the rest of the world see the hillary clinton that rest of the world sees behind the scenes you know you'd say she failed to do that. you start to wonder.

i want to say one thing on this bush thing. joe, maybe you appreciate this coming from florida. i look at bush right now and i keep asking myself the same question. is this a guy who is just running in the wrong year? if you think back i'm thinking back 20 years to florida. to florida in 1994. jeb bush running for governor in florida. it was george w. bush running for governor in texas. the question is which one of the guys is going to win and move into line to be the republican candidate in 2000? it is always supposed to be jeb. >> everybody said steve, you're right. if jeb won fwhin '94, he would have been the president in 2000. >> what the republican party was looking for is jeb bush. i don't think they're looking noor for that in 2016. >> i don't either. jeb bush as governor i remember him being torn to sledshreds in '94 for being a right-wing nut job. jeb bush poses the greatest risk to conservatives since nelson

rockefeller. i spit my coffee out. jeb's record in florida was so conservative. >> you know your party changed. >> not that much. >> it changed a bit. here is my question for you. you know mike just talked about the fact that there would be some -- at least a shot at some of jeb's rivals in the announceme in. t speech. and there is reporting that in some of the stories about campaign turmoil that they're thinking about going negative enn. a more direct way after they launched. doesn't that seem a little dangerous to you for this campaign to start talking this early about going negative? >> i don't think they need to go negative at all. i think jeb has -- i do. i think jeb has a great record for conservatives out of florida. and that's what he's got to do. don't tear the other people down. tell people what you've done. trust they'll come you to. >> you have one more item before we go? >> a sign of confidence by jeb and maybe sign that he's turning the corner from that grinld itd it

out campaign you were talking about to the joyful campaign he wants. he had a flawless trip to europe which other republican candidates have had trouble doing. he's relaxed. he met with the reporters off the record. and a sign of confidence something people hadn't predicted and this is a scoop from "morning joe" right after his announcement tuesday, he'll go to new hampshire. but wednesday to iowa where people were afraid he wouldn't go. so republicans are going to be very excited that he's going to do -- make that trip. >> why do i think jeb's odds on favorite and going to win this thing? because he's going to have the most money. and he can stand in front of microphones for five hours and answer questions and answer them well. he went to europe. other republicans have gone to europe. gone to israel and have been afraid to talk to reporters once. i think at the end of the day, the skill and smarts and money carries him over. >> mike allen, thank you so much.

steve, thank you. my lip was not curling. >> she was quivering. >> i think that people don't want to really talk about the real questions. >> steve, thank you as well. >> thank you. >> good to be here. >> make sure you watch steve's coverage of mika and clinton's rollout tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. that will be exciting. we'll be watching "up." what do you have on sunday on "meet the press"? >> we'll be doing the dynasty rollouts mitt romney who has the big con fab of kanld dates. we have campaign chair of hillary and we're going to talk about iraq a lot of what is going on. there. >> all right. chuck todd, that will be "meet the press" this sunday. gene, we'll let you go now. >> okay. see you next week. >> thank you, gene. >> up next the chief of staff for the u.s. army general ray ordierno is our guest next. my school reunion. i don't know.

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jack jacobs. >> it's always a great honor to have both of you here. >> thank you. >> general -- >> pretty good that you can get us both on the same show. >> you guys have a history together, don't you? >> we do, indeed. >> it's unfair. you bring one of my old instructors in when i'm getting ready to do an interview. i'm nervous now. >> good. we'll make you revert a little bit emotionally. wear you down. >> terrible guy? >> no. >> straight out of "officer and a gentleman." >> he used to jump on the desk to make him feel taller. >> that is true actually. >> that's hysterical. >> it's going to be that kind of interview. >> okay. >> i was caught one time by the dean of the military academy of west point standing on a desk in his teaching international relations demonstrating parachute landing falls. >> you had to he's so tall. all right. front page of "the new york times." thank youing about an expanded

strategy. most military analysts say it's a smart idea. >> what's new about it? >> but there's concern among politicians about mission creek. >> i don't think it's mission creek. what i would say is that an expansion of the current policy of attempting to train additional iraqi forces. by putting more bases out, they're trying to reach out to the sunnis. frankly, what's happened inside of iraq is you have a shia army. >> yeah. >> you have a kurdish army. you have no sunnis participating. and that's the fundamental problem. and so what they're trying to do slet is let's get people close to them, train them. >> but we've been trying to train iraqi troops obviously, since 2003. >> yeah. i would say this. so you know 2010-11 when we left, we had a national army that included shia kurds, sunnis. we had leaders from all three. since then the last two, three years, they got rid of all the sunni leaders. they got rid of all the sunni that's were in the army.

you now have an army that is not, you know 2014 we didn't have an army represented. >> there is no success in iraq without sunni buying in? >> you have to have a national army. and the national army has got to be including everybody. >> okay. but what is different about this strategy that gives either of you a sense of -- is hope even the word -- that we're going to actually maybe get a handle on this and be able to push back the threat of isis? >> instructor? >> well? >> general will tell you i'm an extremist. i'm going to go big or go home. and we have been working on this for a long time. and time is one of the things that we don't pay very much attention to. we talk about the number of troops and what they're going to do and where the bases are and so on. i'm mindful of the notion that everything takes time and much more time than you think it does. i harp back to something general mcchrystal said some years ago and when he said that was going to -- things like this take

decades. the real question is do we have the political will to undertake whatever we're going to undertake in the region knowing that if you do it the right way can you actually get it done. but that independent variable is time? do we have the political will? >> are the troops, general, concerned about that? they've been giving their all since 2003. and do they -- are they looking over their shoulder wonldering eringwondering if the american people are supporting them? >> that's important to any soldier. you want to be supported by the people. they'll go do anything they're asked to do. when we first started, the president said five years. three to five years. and, frankly, it's three, five ten years. it's a long-term problem. one of the things that i think is important, this can't be a u.s. problem only. we need the nations and the region to step up and be part of the solution. because just the u.s. goes in and solves this problem, you won't solve the problem. it's got to be solved by those who live in the region.

you certainly need to be there to enable them and help them to do that. or we'll end up right back where we are now. >> how do you convince them to do that? i have a theory that 450 additional troops in an advisory role is one of those things where you don't want to convince the neighbors in the region you're carrying the load. is that right, one way to convince them by not going so far in that they say the u.s. can handle it all? >> that's part of it. 450 is a step to get more people where the sunnis are to train them. as general dempsey said we might add more later on. what we don't want it to be perceived of is we're going to go in and fight this fight for them. they've got to do it in the region. we're willing to enable them. now, if ten years from now we believe there's a threat absolute existential threat to the united states that's a

different issue. >> i'll take it one step further. i want to say this. we used military issued powers a default instrument of power, and one of the things we need to do in order to convince our allies in the region that they need to shoulder the burden is to be much better at the diplomatic power. military power can't be the power always. >> happy 240th birthday. not you, the army. thank you very much. you're here in town for that. >> we have a times square celebration. >> the army has done so much obviously, over 240 years, but a disproportionate burden has been put on the army since 2003. thong for all you've done and everybody that serves under you. >> thank you. >> jack jacobs. thank you as well. >> enough of that standing on the desk. >> i am standing on it. >> you're hilarious.

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a 17-year-old honor student is facing a decade behind bars instead of celebrating his high school graduation after pleading guilty to helping isis. the man from virginia admitted

he urged thousands of people on twitter to donate people to isis. he also communicated with fighters overseas and drove a classmate to the airport so he could fly to syria to join isis. >> make no mistake. this case is a tragedy. it is a tragedy first and foremost for the family who have lost a loving son and brother. and it is a tragedy for this community, as we have now lost yet another young person to the seductive allure of violent online propaganda. >> this is the first time a juvenile from the united states has been convicted of helping isis. >> oh, my gosh. sad story. >> crazy. >> isn't that crazy? >> we'll be talking more about that. >> still ahead on "morning joe," the latest on the ongoing manhunt for the two escaped prisoners as rumors swirl that both inmates may have been involved with the supervisor. >> plus hillary clinton getting

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joe." it's 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to wake up everybody. back with us we have sam stein and jeremy peters. >> listen we're going to get to this in a little bit, but the "new york times" leading with a big story. i know it's causing concerns among the left.

it will. but among a lot of foreign policy leaders and generals obviously, very happy about the fact jeremy peters that barack obama is actually looking to add bases and troops in iraq. and as we said yesterday, the announcement yesterday, a lot of people said wasn't enough was just step one. >> i think this has always been kind of what's wrong with this debate over will there be troops on the ground won't there be troops on the ground. boots on the ground rather. of course there will be boots on the ground. in this instance there are going to have to be a lot more because this has proven to be such an intractable problem. >> if you're a liberal in america, you have hillary clinton, and hillary clinton is going to obviously support boots on the ground. she's going to be aggressive. that's how she was at the state department, how she was as a senator. her husband intervened so much republicans were complaining about all his interventions.

on the republican side, i mean you've got rand paul maybe saying don't do it. so if you're a liberal, you've really got nowhere to go if you don't want us -- you know what if you're a moderate or if you're a conservative. >> i don't know if this is singularly -- >> it's not, you're right. >> i think you're right, though in terms of today is washington, d.c. i think the de facto position is going to be okay we will tepidly go in with more support structure. the best question i have heard asked was at the briefing yesterday which gave people pause in all parties, which is we have 13 years of history of trying to train iraqi troops of trying to prop them up. it hasn't worked. what is it about 450 more troops that makes you think it will work. i don't think there's been a good answer. >> i think this is a political move. i look at it through the eyes of

american politics and iraqi politics, trying to get the sunnis to believe there's a reason for them to actually join in and push back in ramadi and other areas instead of turning it over to iranian backed militias and shiites in iraq. >> hard to understand what's different about this approach and what would be effective about it and of course i think the iran component is one we have to keep in mind. >> john mccain is of the mindset we can have 10,000 troops in a support capacity indefinitely. if that's the case i think the administration -- it's incumbent upon the administration to say we're looking at this, the long longevity of the support structure. this seems like a baby step on the process to something bigger. >> really quickly, mika you pointed this out, fascinating. "usa today" article, all in the family. they take a deep dive in to the clintons and the bushes and then the twitter chief out. i use twitter.

i don't follow the business of it that much. anybody here know why he's out? >> i think financials. >> i can tell you. >> a little bit of money. >> twitter misses a goal. i guess, you know i say i don't know much about this. i know enough. i watch silicon valley every week. by the way really good season premiere this week. mike judge, great. >> let's go to upstate new york the manhunt for the two escaped murders at large. six days since david sweat and richard matt were discovered missing from the maximum security prison in dannemora, new york. on thursday police intensified their search in a densely wooded area just a few miles from the prison after a police dog picked up the scent of one or both of the escapees. as we reported at the end of yesterday's show sources familiar with the investigation told nbc news that joyce mitchell, the prison employee being questioned by police was

supposed to be the getaway driver for the two men but that she got cold feet and instead -- >> you were worried about this from the very beginning, that somebody had maybe manipulated her. >> it sounds like that's exactly what what happened from the little information being released now, and add to that equation this is a maximum security prison. no metal detectors. that's how the power tools -- right? and you probably bring them in piece by piece. >> have you read much about this guy's background richard matt? >> they're bad. there's bad, and then there's -- >> she's hannibal lector. that's who got out. this guy was so dangerous when they brought him in for trial, they had to have a sharp shooter on the roof of the courthouse double the security presence in the courtroom, they had to remove the glass because they were afraid he should shatter it and use the shards as weapons. >> the question is mika you can't put this on a seamstress.

why is he in the good behavior ward of the prison? why don't we get this answer and so many more from our own stephanie gosk. >> joining us live from dannemora, new york stephanie gosk. what's the scene like there this morning, first of all? >> hey, good morning, guys. this is a major road in this area. it's closed for the second day in a row. schools in this area are closed for the second day in a row, and the search zone you mentioned is still being searched. it's still in lockdown after they picked up the scent. you were talking about what happened behind the walls of that prison. we spoke to a former prison guard who said there's actually a word for what inmates do to some of the prison workers, and they call it grooming. it's about getting in good with prison workers so that you get some kind of benefit. now, generally, it's small. cigarettes or food or whatever. but in this case with joyce mitchell, it appears to have been much more than that. and the sources close to the investigation are telling us

much more about her and her relationship to these two inmates. what would cause someone to risk it all to spring two convicted killers from prison? sources close to the investigation say joyce mitchell told authorities, quote, she thought it was love. there are news reports she was previously investigated for an improper relationship with one of the two inmates. toby mitchell defended his mother earlier this week. >> she is not the kind of person that's going to risk her life or other people's lives to let these guys escape from prison. >> the two convicts popped out of this manhole cover some time between midnight on saturday and 5:00 in the morning. nbc news joyce mitchell was supposed to be their getaway driver. when they got out, she was nowhere to be found. sources close to the investigation said she got a case of cold feet. her first husband who hasn't spoken to her in nearly lyly 20 years believes she could have been

manipulated. >> she's from a small town. she could be a country girl who got sweet talked. >> mitchell isn't the first prison worker to get emotionally tangled with convict. in new mexico a guard admitted he had multiple affairs with female prisoners. inmates can be cunning. >> they will try to get you down that slippery slope. they will ask for a little favor, and then a bigger favor, and then a bigger fafr. until all of a sudden they feel they have their hooks, their claws into you. >> mitchell may have been hooked, but in the final hour, it appears she left these two convicts high and dry. >> nbc's sources tell us it was the older inmate richard matt that actually charmed joyce mitchell, but the "wall street journal" is reporting there was an investigation done by clinton correctional in the last 12 months investigating whether or not mitchell also had an improper relationship with david sweat. so with both of these convicts

the relationships she had is definitely under scrutiny. >> you're saying there's a possibility of two relationships here stephanie? >> that's exactly right. >> okay. if you're scoring at home we're going to have to -- we don't understand. jeremy peters who is talking about how bad these guys were and we don't understand any word on why they were in the wing that was for -- >> honor. >> -- the honor wing for well behaved inmates? >> one of the things they say is that determination actually happens once they're inside the prison. it's based on the behavior of the inmate inside the prison. not what they actually were convicted for, and are serving time for. so regardless of what they did, they are then determined from i guess they get a kind of clean slate when they walk through and get put in the honor ward. it raises some obvious

questions. is that really the best policy? should what they did and what got them there in the first place somehow have some weight carry some weight as far as how they're treated inside? another question they have to look at is the influence that inmates have over prison workers. now, it's obvious lenot all of them, and in part of their training they're told how to deal with inmates trying to get close to them. they're not supposed to reveal personal information because these guys have a lot of time on their hands, and some of them are incredibly cunning. >> stephanie gosk thank you so much. >> thank you stephanie. unbelievable. >> we have to get to politics now. hillary clinton formally kicked off her 2016 campaign tomorrow with a major speech in new york city. the "new york times" reports she will evoke franklin roosevelt. speaking from an island named for the 32nd president and liberal icon but clinton's speech could end up disappointing the democrats' progressive base. the "washington post" reports it will focus on personal stories

and shy away from policy specifics. bill clinton said yesterday he's unsure if donors to his foundation sought favors from the state department. >> we're all sort of laughing and chuckling because all you have to do is say what george stephanopoulos said everybody who wrote a check, including george stephanopoulos wanted to get something out of them. >> it strikes me as fair lyly loyal to say i'm not sure so it doesn't come back to bite you. >> he's confident whatever the motives were he and his wife were unaware. >> they're blissfully unaware of everything and they don't keep lists. oh, wait they do. >> can you really say that these companies, these wealthy individuals, these governments, none of them sought anything? i mean some of them did have business before the state department? >> you never know what people's motives are. in this case i'm pretty sure

people gave to haiti in the aftermath of the earthquake saw what they saw on television were horrified, and wanted to make a difference. >> you say you don't know if anybody sought any favor. >> no, and i don't think hillary would know either. she's pretty busy those years. and i don't -- i never saw her study a list of my contributors or, and i had no idea who was doing business before the state department. >> say it on the air. >> no. >> say it on the air. you know what i always say stuff on the air. that's kind of what makes this show this show is you say things, you jump off the cliff. >> i'm just curious why you're so nervous in marco rubio's driveway? >> as opposed to this? >> they're not mutually exclusive. >> there are absolutely legitimate questions about how he handled his finances because if you look at his history, this is a guy who has always

interacted in an intertube of the rule. his finances raise a larger question about his judgment and his good sense and whether or not he's somebody who can kind of manage the way he claims he can. >> mika's bigger point, the bigger point is with bill clinton going out there, well go ahead. you need to explain on the air what you said off the air. >> i want to know what hillary clinton needs to do saturday to try to put this behind her because what screams out to me but of course we're in the industry of analyzing, of covering this. i got it. of looking for the questions. and asking them. and the questions scream out at me, what in the world happened with the foundation and these ulterior motives and the money and the e-mail server? those scream out at me. when i look forward to saturday i want to hear it but i don't understand how bill clinton can get onstage and say maybe some people had ulterior motives and

we're going to be like okay let's cover marco rubio's driveway. i'm sure it's fine. it's fine. >> for bill clinton to say hillary was busy she doesn't keep lists, when you could read 1,000 stories about hillary didn't know what was going on? the clintons keep lists. there have been one story after another story about somebody who slighted them 14 years ago that are still on a list. >> i think the problem here, even for the biggest clinton defenders is you know it goes back to the e-mails. even if they're totally innocent the fact they erased their server doesn't allow you to draw that innocence. the strategy is to have bill clinton deal with the messy stuff. you talk about the foundation. hillary won't take those questions as much as she can't, and then we'll do this. >> is it better for him to fum fumble over it than to have her fumble over it? >> if you're under the belief that there's no good way to

handle these questions, that you're going to fumble regardless of who is answering, let him do it. >> is he a trial balloon? we'll go out and have the guy who is better than anybody else doing it and see what sticks and doesn't stick. and what mika is going to get angry about and not angry about. >> is he really invested anymore? we have seen him flub a few questions. >> this is such a horrible -- there's no good answer. that's why hillary has been on lockdown and in bubble wrap for the last three months. >> wouldn't you say if there's no good answer or if the good answer has been scrubbed and it would have been fine to show the e-mails and it's unfortunate for them, i don't know. wouldn't you say get it over with? get out there, answer the questions, let them come. get bruised up. keep going. >> i think that's what they're doing now, as much as they can with bill clinton answering the questions. gr that seems kind of sneaky. >> i think we have talked through this and figured out

there is no good answer. they're butting bill clinton out there because he's better at it than anyone else and it's tough for him to talk through it. >> my question is for our viewers. why is it okay while hillary clinton was secretary of state, there were all these trades going on and ulterior mote chbs and even tv news personalities giving money? i don't -- >> i think it's a real problem for the clinton campaign. >> maybe not. it doesn't seem to be. >> in the long run, she's unable to do what bush does which is stand in front of microphones, answer 200 questions. if she stands up there, you're going to see hillary clinton, and she's not as good at this as her husband, says most people. she's there in front of a microphone, and the first person says, your husband got $550,000 for making a 45-minute speech in front of x at the same time that they were in the state department and you were doing y.

is that proper? and then she fumbles through that. and then somebody asks the next question. i don't know that there's ever going to be a good time for her to stand in front of microphones and answer questions. >> my questions are, and i'll speak personally, i grew up in a family where i saw how a lot of this works from the inside. i'm still in one where i know how ethics and rules and protocol must be followed like to the tee, down to $50 gifts. and so i think i'm kind of flummoxed by it at the same time. i want to see the first woman president of the united states in my lifetime. i would like to see a democrat win the next election. i'm going to be transparent. i would like to see her be able to answer these questions and for there to be a good answer. but i'm not going to pretend the questions don't exist. >> that's the essential paradox of her candidacy, right? this historic nature of it and

there was eight years ago, but there are elements of her character and her policy positions, let's not just make it about the foundation, that are deeply not irritating but troubling. >> i feel like there's a real conflict. >> the thing is, you talked about your past growing up with your father in the white house. we don't have to go back to the '70s. we can look at the fact -- >> my brother is the ambassador to sweden. >> you can't give your sister-in-law shoes. >> i can't give her shoes. >> because they say that's improper. >> that's right. >> so if a relative can't give a sister-in-law shoes that don't fit her because her brother works in the state department why can the secretary of state at the same time have a husband who can make $550,000 in a speech that may look like there's an impropriety attached

to foreign policy decisions made in the state department? that and many more questions will be answered. >> and maybe it doesn't matter. that's why question for everyone. >> still ahead on "morning joe," mitt romney may once again be the most important man in politics this weekend. >> we go live to park city utah, where the one-time nominee is additioning the gop's next crop of presidential contenders. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> that was nice. kind of gentle on this friday. good morning, everyone. summer it's all over the map. we have barely any signs of spring left. get ready for more rain oklahoma and texas. likely isolated severe cleveland, indianapolis detroit, buffalo, syracuse rochester and up to the capital. now, today's forecast it's going to be hot in the southeast and mid-atlantic and stay hot and if anything get hotter into next week. the worst storms oklahoma city to chicago. saturday, the forecast looks perfect.

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well while you were away and while we were away we just had the best segment of the morning. >> what? >> with mika and jeremy and sam all in a cat fight. >> well. >> it was great. >> jeremy is being a little difficult, i think. >> difficult? >> i think he is. >> what do you mean? >> i think he's got a little too

much -- i don't know. you work for the "new york times." >> mika you said -- you said if this happened to a republican -- >> i do feel the campaign would be dead. >> you think the "new york times" is underreporting the story. >> it does not feel like anybody has the gut to report on this story and it's coming out because it has to. >> we just went through like three weeks of coverage. >> nobody wants to hear it. >> this is the first i heard -- >> what don't they want to hear? >> this is the first i have heard someone say the "new york times" hasn't covered hillary clinton enough. >> look there have been pops of this story that have gone away. tell me why, jeremy. >> i think it's because this is built into the cake with the clintons. >> i'm sorry, what? >> there have been questions about propryty and whether or not they skirt the rules and whether or not they're too legalistic, it dependents on the

definition of is is. so i think that this these allegations -- >> so don't cover it because it's built into the cake? >> i think we the "new york times," and lots of other news organizations are covering this exhaustively. it's harder for these kinds of allegations and questions to stick to her when they have been exhausted for 20 years. >> on the other side too, look at the george stephanopoulos side of the story. brian williams tells a couple of tall tales which no guy ever does. no guy ever exaggerates what he's done. it reminds me when i was in congress and i knew that i had to scale with my bare hands to the top of the capitol dome. dudes do that. brian obviously, some real concerns, blah blah blah. he's being taken care of. they're talking about it. george stephanopoulos actually does something that impacts coverage of the biggest story of that week. he goes and he rakes an author

over the coals. rakes him over the coals, tears him to shreds talks really fast and says we have done an investigation at abc news we found out -- and then like there's a day or two of russelling and then it goes away. now, there are just a lot of people who say, why is it that the clintons and the clintonistas live by a standard that nobody else does? i guarantee you, martin o'malley would be out if this happened to him. bernie sanders would be out if it happened to him. it happens to the clintons and as mika says everybody is like -- >> you're in congress? >> see? >> i never talk about that. it was right after i was an all-star shortstop. >> what in the world. go ahead. >> let's talk about just one arm of the clintons' problem, the complete lack of transparency about the e-mails and the

records. >> which is okay with everybody. >> it's not okay. >> it's okay with your paper. okay with the "huffington post." >> you say that a republican would be out, gone. >> gone. >> if you recall mitt romney just to make this parallel was raked over the coals for a lack of transparency when it came to his tax returns. if i recall he managed to be the republican nominee. i don't agree with the premise. >> did he release them? >> one year. one year. >> by the way, very legal. >> better than -- >> that's all legal. no impropriety. you had harry reid lying through his teeth about him and admitting he lied about him not paying taxes. with all due respect, i don't think it's a parallel? >> i don't think it's a big enough issue. i also disagree. i think the idea we haven't been covering this is silly. >> if he was running for president and wiped his e-mail server clean, tell me exactly

what you two would do? you would not stop talking about it. >> the idea that we haven't been covering clinton is silly. we're talking about it today on a television program. >> we're covering it but you don't care. you don't care and you don't care. >> i'm surprised by this criticism myself. i have never heard anyone say the "new york times" doesn't cover hillary clinton. >> here we go. hold on. i got an announcement. like a theater. playing the role of joe scarborough this morning, mika brzezinski. >> oh, no. no. >> what's happening? >> it's freaky friday. it's rich. >> i'm just -- >> girls, know your value. >> okay. >> freaky friday. we switched. go team. t. how may i help you? i heard i could call angie's list if i needed work done around my house at a fair price. you heard right, just tell us what you need done and we'll find a top rated provider to take care of it. so i could get a faulty light switch fixed? yup! or have a guy refinish my floors? absolutely!

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and it continues. >> no 32 past the hour. >> are you going to yell past it? >> i have news to break here. >> great. >> joining us now, the news and finance anchor at yahoo, jeremy petersson, sam stein. >> everybody is nervous. you're making everybody on edge. even the pets are nervous. >> no they're not. breaking news in the man hnlthunt for two escaped murders. they heard that joyce mitchell the civilian questioned did not

bring power tools into the funility. however she did bring contraband into the facility. >> like doneughnutdoughnuts. >> meanwhile, the manhunt is bringing attention to how prisoners try to game the system. kerry sanders is live at the iowa state penitentiary in ft. madison. kerry, how serious of a problem is this on the inside? >> it's a constant problem here at this prison, they have 585 prisoners. in maximum security, half of them are lifers. according to the veteran corrections officers and the staff here those folks that many of them who know they're never going to get out, are like conmen constantly trying to find a weakness to exploit. it was inevitable the escape in new york has prompted prison authorities across the country, including here altt iowa state penitentiary to reexample the

way things are done. >> we had a lockdown due to an escape attempt at this institution. >> do you think that's because they were encouraged by what they heard in new york? >> i don't know for sure. it's certainly what it could be. >> as in the movies like "the green mile." >> can you understand? >> yes i think i can. >> corrections officers daily inaction with inmates are a balancing act. share too much information and an inmate smells vulnerability. >> i know you have something going on. marriage on the rocks. anything i can do? >> they try to connect? >> they play on that rapport. >> use it as your weakness and their position of power. >> in the netflix show "orange is the new black" inmates use every emotional trick to compromise those in charge especially when it's men and women. >> it's kind of a catch-22 when you're trying to be empathetic with them they try to turn it

around and use it against you. >> they're trying to manipulate? >> absolutely. >> it's why corrections officers not only watch over inmates but also each other. prison experts say every inmate sitting in a cell like this wonders the same thing, even if they're not going to act on it how to escape. ingenuity in prison is amazing. >> larry was an inmate in federal prison for 11 years. he's now turned his life around and helps troubled teens. >> believe me it's pretty easy to get into a relationship and get hooked up with a guard. >> here in iowa as another prison's inmates are kept busy in workshops, the reasoning -- less time to plan escapes. >> if a tool goes missing? >> nobody goes back to the cell. everybody is searched. place is searched. it's shut down until it's found. >> here they let us in because they're proud of the way the operations work. a prison that was built in 1839

seven years before iowa was even a state. joe, to your question what sort of contraband? on a regular basis at prisons here and across the nation there are people from the outside who do smuggle in things like marijuana, bring in things like alcohol, and ultimately cash is still king. money has value. and so it's possible when we're talking about what may have been smuggled into the prison in upstate new york that it was something like that and of course, that value could then be traded for other things. here, those prison tools aren't just placed on racks. there's a shadow outline of every prison tool. you can look at the rack and say, that's missing. we have to find it. as you heard, when a tool goes missing here they lock the place down and nothing is going forward until they find that missing piece of equipment. >> wow. >> all right. >> kerry, he got out. when that door closed i was a little concerned.

>> nbc prison all right. >> he always puts us right in there. kerry, thank you very much. >> still ahead, casey hunt joins us live from park city as republican hopefuls flock to mitt romney's annual gop event. and the washington post reports on the one thing that may be key to baltimore's resurgence in the wake of the recent riots. that story and much more when "morning joe" comes right back. you know our new rope has actually passed all the tests. we're ready to start with production. ok, are you doing test markets like last time? uh, no we're going to roll out globally. ok. we'll start working on some financing options right away. thanks, joe. oh, yeah. it's a game-changer for the rock-climbing industry. this is one strong rope! huh joe? oh, yeah it's incredible! how you doing team? jeff you good? [jeff] i think i dropped my keys. [announcer] you work hard to build your company.

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and get 10 gigs of data for $80 a month and $15 per line. the win-win-win. a new way to save without settling. only on verizon. former governor mitt romney is bringing together 2016 hopefuls and donors this weekend in utah. and joining us from park city msnbc political correspondent casey hunt and casey, it must be cold there. what advice is mitt giving the candidates behind closed doors? >> it's a little chilly here. one of those early mountain mornings. a bunch of attendees off playing

flag football right now with marco rubio, which is kind of the highlight of the weekend. they have essentially taken over this luxury resort and are going to be doing things like that all day. romney has been talking one by one with the candidates. there was a reception last week. scott walker marbo rubio, lindsey graham chatting up the attendees. a lot of these donors. yes, they were with romney, but they have started to splinter. that's the challenge for romney whether he can hold a group together enough that he maintains some of the power he wants to keep in the race. if you think about how big this field is it's also a little bit of playing for second choices. even if some of the donors are already committed, this is still a chance for the candidates to talk to them and say hey, i realize you're already with that guy, but if that doesn't work out for you, consider me. >> if you're out there at mitt romney's event, you can play flag football with marco rubio. if you go on the "morning joe"

with joe and mika you can play parcheesi with sam stein. it's bigger. >> i never played flag football. >> really? >> you know, on a serious note i think it's -- >> that's not serious? >> depends on who you're asking what channel you're watching. i think it's smart of romney to try to be the elder of the party and have a resurgence. he's young. what is he going to do next as opposed to being the person everyone turns to for events like this. >> i would guess, casey, one candidate that is not a lot of love for out there is jeb bush who elbowed him out of the race not so long ago. >> bush of course he was invited. he's not here because he's still on the european tour. actually, one of his sons is here, potentially representing him. but yeah notable tension between the two camps. i thought it was pretty interesting that romney was publicly willing to forgive jeb bush for making campaign

stumbles saying, hey, we make mistakes. there's been a lot of back and forth between those two. rubio is somebody a lot of people who were with romney in 2012 like now. they remember him as a hard working and generous surrogate willing to go wherever whenever and packed a lot of rooms for them. that's a relationship to watch. >> casey hunt thank you so much. and also mitt romney will be joining us live on "morning joe" on monday. so we look forward to that. >> and carly fiorina will be on the show. >> and now to the city of baltimore, following the city's riots following the death of freddie gray. joining us, francis. her new piece for the paper looks at the resurgence of baltimore's arts district and why it's playing a key role in the city's revitalization. tell us about it. recently, i was speaking in a museum at baltimore to about 400 women on leadership and know your value.

i have to say i was blown away by the arts community there. >> right, well, i think you were probably at the american visionary arts museum which is a wonderful institution. the place i was looking at is station north, which was designated in 2002 by the state of maryland an arts and entertainment district. it's been providing a wonderful diverse community with a lot of small projects brought together and centered around the schools that are based there. mika, which is the maryland institute college of art, has really brought an awful lot of investment and young people of interest into the area and hopkins, as you probably know and the university of baltimore. those three institutions surrounding an area that has pop-up performance spaces cafes, a wonderful theater called the charles theater for indy movies among others. there's a lot going on there. new housing for artists and other things creating a very diverse community. racially, economically, and other ways too. a marvelous example of what can

happen in an urban environment. and a mile from where the disasters happened after freddie gray's death. >> for some cities it's sort of best to be a well kept secret. that's not the case for baltimore. since the riots, even the few people i met when they say they're from baltimore, there's sort of an oh react. how do you change that dynamic? >> this is key, this area i'm talking about is just by the station. you get out of the train now and your amtrak train from new york or washington which of course are communities that are very hard for an artist to break into because it's so expensive. you get to baltimore, and you see all this activity going on. you have apartment buildings going up, pop-up performance spaces. i drove past one last night. blue and white flags, people on the street making an area that had been considered unsafe by many safe and walkable. hopkins and mica are started a joint film studies program. that will bring people from the

streets, restaurants, and change the neighborhood in a way that invites people from outside to come to baltimore instead of being frightened of it. >> i understand all that but can you explain a little bit, this is sam, by the way, can you explain how they're taking people in the inner city perhaps on a different track than the artist track, and bringing them into this system to give them a job or give them some sort of hope for the future? >> key points. absolutely. so one of the institutions that's developed here in fact two. a public charter school a building that was used in "the wire" and was then a homeless shelter and now you go outside and there are kids playing, kids from the neighborhood. it has a strong commitment to the neighborhood playing out with chickens and the new garden and a design school, a public school started that will focus on design. one of the companies coming in is called sparky pants, a computer gaming company. they're talking about having internships and taking local

kids and giving them training to help them get jobs. >> francis, thank you so much. my daughter she mentioned hopkins. my daughter goes there. there was no point where she was more connected with baltimore than right after the riots when a whole bunch of students went to the cvs that was burned to the ground and started to clean up. there was a certain moment of opportunity in the depths of despair to bring that together. >> we're coming up on the tenth anniversary of katrina. it certainly happened in new orleans. >> up next a second opinion on this morning's big medical stories. and president and ceo of the mayo clinic joins the table. at chase, we celebrate small businesses every day through programs like mission main street grants. last years' grant recipients are achieving amazing things. carving a name for myself and creating local jobs. creating more programs for these little bookworms. bringing a taste of louisiana to the world.

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51 past. joining us now, the president and ceo of the mayo clinic it's a pleasure to have you back on the show. good to see you again. where do we start? can you tell us about this relationship with walmart? >> i would be happy to. we had an exclusive relationship with walmart for 18 years. we do their transplants, and they have recognized that it's important to them and to their employees that they get great care quickly so they can get back to work. recently, they have extended that coverage to include three very important cancers, breast lung, and kolo rectal cancers and if you're an employee at

walmart and you get one of these conditions walmart will pay for an evaluation at mayo clinic and all treatment and evaluations necessary, including traveling to the mayo clinic with a caretaker. >> wow. >> they'll cover everything. they recognize the importance of their emploipys getting back to work. >> it makes a lot of sense because you specialize in complex cares. it's a tight fit. >> it makes a good fit. >> most people wouldn't think that of walmart, that they would provide such a service. >> are there any other employers? are you looking to branch out? >> it's one of the early ones. they were first on the block to do this. a number of groups are doing that. we're working with a number of large employers now because they recognize that health care is expensive, and complex health care is very expensive and it's important to get it right the first time. >> right. >> so they have recognized over 18 years that the best transplant is the transplant you don't need. it's been a good relationship

and it raises awareness, i hope of the importance of the decisions that consumers are making. a lot of consumers are making their decisions ss based on the fact, i hope i stay well this year. i'm going to by a low-cost, high-deductible health care plan and if they get sick they're responsible for the cost and they can't dictate where they're going to get the care. >> jeremy peters. >> as you look at the expansion of the mayo clinic over the years, i think no one would dispute the fact it's been the gold standard for care. >> thank you. >> so how do you expand at the rate you have while keeping the quality of that care? certainly, the expansion has been rather dramatic. >> thanks jeremy. 25 years ago, we expanded to arizona and florida. we have not done mergers and acquisitions beyond that. a little in the upper midwest with primary care facilities. what we have done is digitized our knowledge and shared that broadly.

we now have a network of over 30 providers around the country in mexico city and puerto rico who aren't mayo clinic but they're part of our network. they pay a subscription and have access to our knowledge and consultations at no charge to patients so they can provide better care locally, and only 20% of those patients actually have to go to a mayo clinic. it's been a very good rangement. >> as one of the country's highest hospitals, how closely are you watching the supreme court? >> we're watching it closely. we believe patients need to have good insurance because health care is so expensive. so it's hard to speculate where that will go. >> is that a crisis for health care if it comes down against the affordable care act? >> it's a crisis for 6.5 million people right out of the box. if they can't afford their health care because health care is so expensive. it's not so expensive if you have good health care coverage. that's why the decision about

what health care coverage you have is so important. if you make the wrong decision you can really hurt you and your family. >> doctor thank you so much. great to have you back on the show. >> come back. >> thank you. >> up next what funny thing did we learn today? when you're not confident your company's data is secure the possibility of a breach can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. we monitor network traffic worldwide, so we can see things others can't. mitigating risks across your business. leaving you free to focus on what matters most. ortho bug b gon gives you season-long control of all these types of bugs. spectracide gives you season-long control... of just ants. their label says so. bugged by more than ants? get ortho bug b gon. the label tells the story.

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how about processing nearly $5 billion in electronic toll payments a year? in fact, today's xerox is working in surprising ways to help companies simplify the way work gets done and life gets lived. with xerox, you're ready for real business. when broker chris hill stays at laquinta and fires up free wi-fi, with a network that's now up to 5 times faster than before you know what he can do? let's see if he's ready. he can swim with the sharks! book your next stay at lq.com! oh, i got you. what did you learn, mika? i'm afraid to ask. >> absolutely nothing. i'm going to play the role of

all you guys. >> here we go. >> jeremy? i love the "new york times." >> thank you. >> mika is always suggesting that we learn our value. i learned today that my value is zero. >> oh, i love you. >> sam stein? >> i learned to feel bad for jeremy. rough for him this morning. >> he's fine. >> i clipped on my gear. i feel like i walked in -- >> that's a good thing to learn. joe, what did you learn? >> i learned that you have some unresolved anger issues regarding the campaign and the "new york times." >> i want to see the first woman president. i want a democrat to win. theria go. >> well -- >> i'm just transparent. >> you have a funny way of showing it. >> you guys have a funny way of facing the truth. >> oh, god, it keeps coming. >> bam. >> here's the thing, okay? when the show is over you guys get to go home. we get this in the office for

the rest of the day. and we couldn't be happier. hey, by the way, mika was at the girl scouts of connecticut last night. fantastic organization. >> thank you for having me. >> those were happier days. "morning joe," lots of thanks to everybody on "morning joe." you do an extraordinary job. another great week. thank you so much. stick around. "the rundown" is next. and good morning. i'm jose diaz-balart. i begin with breaking news. we learned that president obama is heading to the capital, lobbying house democrats ahead of the critical vote on trade, a bill giving his fasttrack authority is up for vote in the 11:00 eastern hour. a number of democrats have opposed it putting the results in doubt. more on this as soon as we get it. the president heading to capitol hill. and now to breaking news on the new york prison break. just moments ago, the clinton