hillary clinton launches. now what? all right, good morning, thanks for getting up with us this sunday june 14 2015. it is nag day in the united states of america. our country's colors adopted by the second continental congress on this day back in 1777. we have some more fun stuff on that ahead this morning. also today is the first day of the rest of hillary clinton's presidential campaign. the former secretary of state formally launching her white house bid on a small island in new york city's east river yesterday. and now today, she is on the

banks of the mighty mississippi in burlington iowa campaigning in that first in the nation caucus date, a place with some painful memories for her. more on that in just a minute. also on the show today, former new hampshire governor and white house chief of staff john sununu. he is going to be along to talk 2016 and about the president he served, someone he calls the quiet man. also coming up there are new details this morning about how those two men escaped the maximum security prison in upstate new york allegedly with help. and we are learning more about what drove a man in dallas to open fire on a dallas police headquarters yesterday. more on those stories ahead. we begin this morning with hillary's launch. this morning, she is back on the ground in the hawkeye state, in iowa. that's where she finished in third place the last time she ran for president. this after yesterday's big rally in new york city where she sought to answer that one simple but important question that every candidate has to

anticipate. why are you running? >> prosperity can't be just for ceos and hedge fund manners. democracy can't be just for billionaires and corporations. prosperity and democracy are part of your basic bargain, too. you brought our country back. now it's time your time, to secure the gains and move ahead. and you know what? america can't succeed unless you succeed. [ applause ] that is why i am running for president of the united states. [ cheers and applause ] >> clinton also shared parts of her personal history, something else she didn't talk about much about the last time she ran for president back in 2008. >> my mother taught me that

everybody needs a chance and a champion. she knew what it was like not to have either one. her own parents abandoned her and by 14 she was out on her up working as a house maid. years later, when i was old enough to understand i asked what kept her going. you know what her anticipate was? something very simple. kindness from someone who believed she mattered. >> and it was her mother who she invoked again in the closing lines of what was a 45-minute speech. >> i wish she could have seen the america we're going to build together. [ applause ] an america where if you do your part, you reap the rewards. where we don't leave anyone out or anyone behind.

an america where a father can tell his daughter yes, you can be anything you want to be even president of the united states. thank you all! god bless you and may god bless america! >> all right. and for the latest from the trail in iowa with hillary clinton, we are joined now by msnbc's alex seitz-wald, live on the ground with the clinton campaign. thanks for taking a few minutes this morning much the clinton campaign, we had the soft rollout a while back, had events back then but yesterday, this big statement of purpose vehement. what do they think they accomplished yesterday? >> morning, steve. i think what they wanted to lay out yesterday was sort of a road map for where the campaign is going from here. it was a really policy-heavy speech ticked off a long list of items on everything from transgender rights to climate change to paid family leave and that's going to be their rubric going forward for the policy she is laying out.

i think today is going to be really interesting. this is a first chance in iowa where iowans get a chance to see her without a public invitation some far, only done the round tables were you have to be invited by the campaign and really interesting to see the enthusiasm the intensity here, bernie sanders has been in town firing up huge crowds. he was here friday at drake university just across town, 700 people there reportedly get this got 100 rounds of applause during his up to hall. you were -- steve, you were at his announcement in burlington big crowds there. definitely, a big fired up crowd in roosevelt island yesterday, have to see what happens in iowa, a state not too kind to her in 2008. >> yeah that's right n burlington i was there yesterday on roosevelt island too trying to compare those two crowds. say hillary as big as sanders but the sanders crowds have been notable. alex seitz-wald on the ground in iowa. thanks for taking a few minutes this morning. appreciate that. now going to bring in today's panel. for that joined by april ryan white house correspondent, washington bureau chief for american urban radio networks,

phillip stuts, former campaign director for bobby jindal now the ceo of go big media and former democratic communications staffer for hillary clinton, blake seth now the editor-in-chief for the soon-to-launch cafe.com. they join us now. blake, a former life you worked for a former clinton campaign eight years ago much watching this roll out yesterday, this launch, this statement from her, when you look at the hillary of 2008 and you look at the hillary who is going to present herself in 2016 are you seeing big differences? >> i have seen tactical ditches, right? i think people who are supporters of the clintons people detractors of the clintons, i think everyone would agree that hillary clinton is a smart person. so i think a big lesson from 2008, there was an opening in the primary for her to be defeated as we obviously saw, not going to let that happen again, try to not let that happen again, right? didn't go dramatically to the left but really trying very hard to make sure that she was taking nothing for granted with that primary electorate. saw her talk about a range of

issues. again, not all the way to the left where bernie sanders is. we didn't hear her talk about tvp, didn't hear her talk about bill de blasio's call for $15 minimum became, not all the way over there but retorically hitting a a lot of those points very clear to me that they don't want to make the same mistake twice. >> april what did you think of it? >> yesterday i thought she looked very presidential in her presidential democratic blue. she looked very much like a democratic convention as well. i think that she, again, she -- she went a little bit further to the left that she had been but i think that hillary clinton is strategic in how her imagerisome the first person who came up on the stage yesterday after she made her announcement was chelsea clinton, not bill clinton. they are keeping him in the fold but keeping him at a distance. that is her biggest asset, biggest liability, but also i'm talk the visuals, talking about this a minute ago, i think she split made a mistake with the people behind her, the crowd saturday of america. we didn't see all america like

we normally see in the democratic party. i think her visuals might have been off a little bit but her message was right on point the issue of trade will be coming up because it aa will be another issue because that failed this week and that is a big issue with trade. trying to help those who fall through the cracks the 100,000 people who potentially may not have any assistance for job training. >> that's what we had yesterday, we were out there for the event, lincoln chafee running against her on the show, hey, i'm for tpp, transpacific partnership, should stay were she is stands. bernie sanders says i'm against it, should say where she stands. her communications director on wouldn't say were she stands. >> i have heard about increased wages what they are talking about increased wages, not too far into it but make sure people are securing increased wages. >> phillip, i want to bring you in but first, i want to show this "new york post", conservative paper, this was their take put it up here this was their take yesterday, call her rodhamhood say hillary reboot hearse campaign with an

attack on the rich. as blake was saying she did retorically go to the left a little bit. there was a line there we just played it, basically the country can't just be runby billionaires and corporations saying could i see bernie sanders, maybe bernie sanders passing this. you were look ac this the as a republican. >> i'm looking at this as a political consultant and tell that you speech was for a primary audience only, not the middle of the road voter, not to a soft republican who may go back and forth between voting for democrats and republicans. that was a primary speech. the only thing that was really interesting to me, very stilted and it almost felt like a state of the union speech not a, you know, get people fired up primary speech that we are probably used to from the obama side. >> it was interesting to me. i wasn't ready for -- we have been told she will make the grand statement of purpose and she will talk personally about her mother she has not been very comfortable talking personally in the past. it did seem there was almost a checklist she was going through at one point. something else that jumped out at me i want to play this

though, there's been a lot of talk through the generational, the intergenerational theme, she will be 69 years old if she wins, runs against marco rubio, a full 25 years younger, how she addressed that issue, i thought a creative watch let's play that >> well i may not be the youngest candidate in this race but i will be the youngest woman president in the history of the united states. [ cheers and applause ] and the first grandmother as well. and one additional advantage, you won't see my hair turn white in the white house. i've been coloring it for years. >> so i thought that -- i thought that was -- great applause line there, but it's also -- you think of it saying look, if my opponents, on the republican side or democratic side want to say i'm yesterday's news or something, there's a

chance to make history with me here, something very fresh, very exciting about the idea of this candidacy. >> i think the south carolina piece, when she talked about dyeing her hair was better. this she called and of rehashed it again yesterday talking about her hair won't go white, she will always color it. >> you saw the line coming? >> i saw the -- i definitely saw the rain coming, the south carolinaesque thing she was talking about, when she was in south carolina a couple weeks ago. i will say this, we as a nation are very visual people. the unfortunate thing is she is a woman and she is a woman who is older and people will be looking at her visuals versus a marco rubio or a younger candidate, but at the same time we are also a nation who likes wisdom an who wants someone who's been there, done that got a t-shirt and washed it and she has been there, when she was secretary of state. one of the things that really stood out for me yesterday, she said, i was in the situation room when we killed osama bin laden. so, that was one of the thing she is gravitated to the obama administration brought him in and said, you're laughing but -- >> that's -- >> she sat in a room? >> no she helped strategically,

she was there, not just sitting in a room they want -- okay. >> but here's the thing. what april is saying i'm curious what you think of this it was notable the way she sort of attached herself to the obama administration. this is what scott walker, who would like to run against her potentially as a republican nominee, he said this tweeted this out of the speech he said hillary clinton would be a third term of barack obama's failed policies, instead, we need new, fresh solutions. so here's -- a lot of talking in vans of this speech how close will she be to obama hurricane made it clear in that speech she is going to be close. didn't runaway from it. absolutely. listen, april made a great point. she was running right now and she has poll tested that she is the older candidate but running as a grandmother, running as woman, is a big, big plus for her. and she did a great job. we were talking about -- she talked about her mom. that was the best part of her speech yesterday. i don't know why they only spent two lines on it they should have spent of the 45 minutes, 15 minutes on it i think that was the only strategic mistake i saw. >> in 2008 there was a big

internal divide within the campaign, i think well documented now, where some people, sort of the mark penn-type of wing of adviser, got to be tough, tough, tough, commander in chief, don't play up the humanity, don't play up the fact you are a woman that kind of stuff and other people with her a long time sort of saying, no hillary clinton is someone who is the, relatable but softer side, human side, woman, all this kind of stuff, right, a big divide ultimately, i think penn kind of won that argument. to me, it was very different, 2008 versus even this and i think there were only a couple of lines it time not that they went full bore on this but that side, those people saying we got to show her personality are starting to win a little bit more. this time around, i think is a little bit different that last time. >> understanding she will win with that, more people in this country struggling to survive and make sure their children have better that they had and that relates to more americans than hearing all this other washington inside washington stuff. so hearing about the mother i'm a mother of two kids single mother of two kids not saying

i'm vote fogger her but that touched me perked my ear as a person taking the reporter hat off. >> blake, you're right, autopsy struck me from the outside, there was this thinking that hillary clinton has to be margaret that much her, have to be the iron lady, you have to be the toughest one if you want to be a female candidate and maybe that's not where they are anymore. anyway, still ahead in the show wechty californians feeling parched by the state's new water restriction. what they are saying this morning. but first, myth busters, politics edition, dispel some of the biggest fictions about 2016. that's next. stay with us. hi, my name is cliff. i'm tom. my name is eric. and i help make beneful. i help make beneful. i help make beneful. after working here, there's no other food i'd feed my pets. each ingredient is tested by our own quality insurance people. i see all the quality data everything that i need to know that it's good for my dog. there's a standard.

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my name is jose lopez. i'm a troubleman in san francisco. i've been with the company for 29 years. a troubleman restores and troubleshoots electrical issues, getting customers' power back on. we're 24/7, 365 days a year. i love my job. going up in the bucket and seeing all of san francisco, it's an exhilarating feeling. i was born and raised in san francisco. this is where i live and there's a sense of pride in providing great power to our customers. when i go out there and get their power back on, there's a great sense of satisfaction. together, we're building a better california. almost become a joke this election cycle, how many republicans are actually going to run for president? right now, there are ten declared candidates on the gop side that will likely become 11 tomorrow when jeb bush

officially enters the race and at least four other potential and likely candidates are going to jump in over the next few months. you think this is pretty much anyone's race to win? well, think again. at least according to the university of virginia's larry sabido who calls that the mist of 2016. republicans are hungry to reoccupy the white house and the realistic among them understand the party won't win without pitching a bigger tempt. may be no single gop front-runner but just a few politicians who have the resources, positioning and poe attention to expand the base. larry saab balto joins us now to discuss this and some of the other myths of 2016 he would like to dispel. thanks for taking a few minutes. i love -- let's start on the first one, the idea that the giant republican field is that wide open. been saying in my mind bush rubio, walker and maybe kasich are the four truly viable ones r there more than that? less than that? what do you think? >> no i guess i stole that from you, steve, because that's

exactly what my piece in politico says. look, you can make a case for any candidate. you talked to the staffers as i do. you spend a half hour with them and you come out thinking my god, this candidate's going to win. of course that's not true. they are very good at spinning a scenario that produces their candidate as a nominee. but when you really go right through the nominees potential nominees and look at their pluses and minuses and whether they honestly have a chance of getting the nomination or whipping the jeep election it does come down to bush rubio, walker and, you know, maybe a chance for kasich. i tend to think not, but you could throw him in there. much bad news there for jim gilmore. let's get to myth number two. hillary clinton's gavefavor ability is in free fall. you're saying this is overblown, the attention to e-mails? >> ridiculously overblown.

this is not to criticize the press but let me criticize the press. everything's a game changer. everything's a game changer. no. almost nothing is a game changer in this able of highly polarized partisan politics. steve, more than 90% of the votes are already locked in for 2016. nobody believes it, but it's true assuming both parties pick mainstream candidates and i think they will because they want to win. you know that if you look at the polling averages all this negative news for hillary clinton has driven down her gave billities on average, get ready for this, 2 percentage points. 2. >> let's try number three here. you say myth number three of 2016 is that billionaires are buying the 2016 election. this is one, listen to bernie sanders' speech tell you billionaires up the entire process. you say no. i say no because, look billion

nairs are trying to buy the process, but you know, it's a chicken in every pot and a billionaire for every candidate. i didn't know we had so many billionaires in the united states. i guess it's a good thing. i don't know. but there seems to be a billionaire for everybody, at least one. some of the candidates may have more than one. it comes right down to it the major candidates for the nomination will have enough money to get their message across and then in the general election, i guarantee you, both major party nominees will have far more money than they ned to get their basic message across and both will reach a point of diminishing returns because they are spending so much. >> i completely agree with you, diminishing returns in a jeep election absolutely. number four this is the last one you have here but the number four myth you say that candidates are all important. >> no the candidates like to think they are all important and their staffs like to think they the staffs are all port.

but in fact in this polarized era, it is actually the two most important letters in the english alphabet alphabet, r and d. that's what's really important. that's what sorts out voters and that includes this gigantic group called und pep dents, which actually is about 5 or 6% hard core. the rest of them are hidden part saps and they vote for their partisan candidate at the same right as people who openly say they are democrats or republicans. larry sabato sucking all the fun out of the 2016 election i thank you a lot of good points there, thank you for joining us this morning much i appreciate it. thanks a lot. all right, still ahead on the show how authorities believe a prison worker helped the two convicted killers who have been on the run for days. and next jill biden makes her first appear perhaps since her son's death for a very special occasion. stay with us. ♪ there we go.

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the other headlines making news with today's pam, our catching up segment, trusty index cards, see what this one says from politico the iowa straw poll pronounced dead at 36 the iowa republican party's central committee voting unanimously on friday to end the straw poll. this had been held six times since 1979. several top republican candidates indicate they had would not participate in the costly event. michele bachmann killed this thing, huh? >> in 1999 i was working for dan quayle's presidential campaign we never got to 2000 that's why i say it was '99, because he furnished eighth behind alan keys in the iowa stroll poll this was a ridiculous fundraiser for the iowa republican party. >> what you're saying, too, it did have a real impact. tim pawlenty in 2011 dropped out because he throws michele bachmann. this is one of those -- now we have -- bell get to it later in the show i guess the debates going to do the same thing the

iowa straw poll is doing. a picture. this is jill biden.just yesterday, vice president joe biden's wife making her first public appearance since the death of their sop. she was helping to crisp the "uss gabrielle giffords requests "named after the former congresswoman from arizona, part of the ceremony, secondly, smashing a champagne bottle over the boat's bow. see there. giffords and her husband, retired captain kelly own hand. this was held in alabama yesterday. obviously, nice to see jill biden.back out in public. see what else we have here. from the because post. headline, rich californians balk at water restrictions. we are not all equal when it comes to water. the ultrawealthy southern california enclave of champ cho santa fe uses five times more water per capita than the state average. starting in july the group lit have its water rationed for the first time in its 92-year history. one orange county resident fondly refer to be his watering hose with charlton heston's

famous quote about guns have to fry from my cold dead hands. one of the quotes that stood out from me, one of the guys in the gated community, we have a right to have golf course that don't have a little bit of brown in them. that spell it had out for them some people trying to make sure they have drinking water, the other guys worry his golf courses won't look totally pristine. to be totally honest about this we have a little bit of a tiered class system it comes to water. i remember growing up, drank water from the tap, that was the thing, before billion water became this zillion doll har industry now. paying for water is something going on for a little while and just been outrageous a long time. >> we can aford it let's have it. poor people not. basically a what it is. this is from vox. i like this one, headline. sal laid poise.more americans than hamburgers. the centers for disease control and prevention says that fruits and investmentables cause nearly half of all food-borne illnesses

while meat and poultry just 22%. part of the were we often eat vegetables russia the bacteria respect killed off. i want to go back to my childhood and snow to my grandfather. >> the smooth thinks i drank, now i don't have to do it anymore. >> this is -- >> some of the salads are organic, you know what we use to help promote the growth -- >> the water? >> the water. and the other stuff. manure. oh. >> oh. >> now i'm happier than ever to stick to a hamburger diet. still ahead, the supreme court's decision on the affordable care act due any day now. why republicans are worried the ruling will leave them in a catch-22. next msnbc's casey hunt sits down with some of the 2016 hopefuls at the mitt romney-hosted summit this weekend. stay with us. >> if you were elected president, where would you take someone on a date as president? a couple presidents got married in the white house? >> you know i hadn't really thought about that. let's rule out syria and iraq.

i don't expect to be become acos yated with any one campaign. they are going to have a long process battle it out. we will see someone emerge and become our nominee and i will then go to work for him. mitt romney saying he doesn't expect to make an endorsement in the republican presidential primaries. he also doesn't regret his decision not to run. romney has been busy enough holding a three-day summit in utah for donors and the other candidates, making him at least a potential king make they are cycle, if he wants to play that role. msnbc's casey hunt there was this weekend. she got to sit down with some of those 2016 hopefuls. what did you learn from running against george w. bush in 2000? >> well, i was too young. i didn't have any money. and i hospital accomplished much. i mean, i did. i thought balancing the federal budget and reforming the pentagon were big items but it wasn't enough. so, i went to iowa i with

tonight new hampshire and new hampshire, they said we like you. but could you just come back? this is not your time. >> talk about this with the panel here. this event now, we were talking about the decline in the last block of the iowa straw poll an event like this, sort of a new thing mitt romney createded in the last couple of years, republican candidates will come out, jeb bush wasn't there he was in europe a lot of the other ones come out there. mitt romney now looms as this -- as this sort of potential kingmaker figure but also bringing to this event a lot of the sort of top, elite dopers in the republican party. so this is a hugely important audience for them. we can put this up on the screen, spencer wick one of romney's top aides when he rap for president, he was asked who performed well this retreat, he said people were very itch pressed yesterday with chris christie, itch pressed with lindsey graham those were examples of two kapds dats they hadn't seep much of gets to one of the phones go to an event

like this very much behind closed doors but you can impress the right people, raise a lot of money. >> itch press the right people playing flag football, skeet shooting pilates. this there is a problem with this very elitist. romney could be the kingmaker n his care the only way you can be a kingmaker, would you have to be a king first. once again this this going back to his elitism, he was very polarizing when he ran. i melt with mitt romney in franken mouth, michigan when he was running for president. one of the things i say why this is elitism and isolating, i asked him something about the issue of jobs we were having bad job numbers, particularly for african-americans, i said you know he asked me what would you do, you know to change, i said have you heard of tax incentives incentives. i don't know what you mean. i was not speaking a foreign language. i believe that all of this is all for naught. it is about getting the donors together to understand these people so they can make this networking, this connection and i just think it is too elitist and too arrogant and too --

>> you got to raise $1 billion. >> playing skeet ball flag football. >> have fun. i goet that. >> but this is serious stuff. >> you got to raise $1 billion. the democrats have to raise $1 billion. george soros is out there helping candidates. >> what is mitt romney's role in the -- >> i think secretary of state. and i think if you saw his foreign policy no one saw his former policy speech but the points that were reported on were a take down of the obama foreign policy and so i think that's what he is going for. i think he is bringing donors in to meet with the candidates and to see what they respond to and, yeah christie really performed well. i know walker was there, rubio was there, kasich was there. >> how is romney viewed in the republican party these days? i wonder is he viewed as somebody who is the narrative, oh, wow, we should have won in 2012 and he was a bad candidate and he botched the election or is the narrative more he got a raw deal he represented us well he should have -- how do

they view him? >> i'm 41 and i remember 1992 the bumper stick they're said don't blame me i voted for bush and in a wake i think that's what the republican primary voters pretty much saying right now and probably some of the to donors, really do wish we have won, what the country would have been in a much stronger position than where it is now. >> no the about our perception the fact that he lost he lost he lost period. history shows it. >> i think the third thing in terms of how he is viewed in the party, viewed as somebody who has access to a lot of people with big pockets, right? so got to kiss the ring a little bit, able to compile all these donors the at this event whether you think he got a raw deal, pathetic. republicans going out there, he is around people with money and feel they have to do it. with romney sees an opportunity to remain relevant in the party a big deal, everybody comes over and sort of kisses his ring a little bit, got to feel good for him. very interesting to watch, him to watch jeb bush have some problems as this has been going on one of the reasons why he probably didn't go forward, it seems, romney thinking about

running, bush had locked up a lot of these people in the early going, interesting for him now watch bush. ness i wonder what he thinks get to something else another big issue talking about in this republican race and lindsey graham, out there made a good impression, but lindsey graham right now, if this first republican debate were held would not be on the same he is not in that top ten. he was asked by casey about those debate rules and republicans could keep him out. what he had to say. >> i think the national standard for the debates are bad, what they are trying to do is bad for the process. if brad pitt were running, he be in the debate, reward people from big states reward people run before people with celebrity status i like the traditional i a proech iowa new hampshire, south carolina. i think this national poll sag bad idea. the ditch between fifth and last is probably less than two points and polling is not that accurate. brad pitt, a republican, i didn't know that.

look it's got to be frustrating, get into the numbers of this later in the show, i can imagine, it has got to be mad.ing for somebody like lindsey graham rick santorum sitting there and seeing donald trump, donald trump in the top ten, i'm going to miss this chance because donald trump is out there? let me make this point, bobby gyppedal is an indian-american, ben carson maybe, carly fiorina a woman candidate, they maybe kept out of a republican primary debate and i think that's really, really bad. >> goes to something i was saying during the break, is it about ego? should the party have pulled everyone together you have got too many people and it breaks the vote down. everyone is in single digits what is that about? so many people who have good ideas, some people who are very far to the right people on the religious tip, people who are moving a little bit more to the center talking about immigration, but should the party have pulled everyone together and said look let's figure this out because we are going to have a problem? >> this is what i'm a little -- i'm sympathetic to fox news and the rules they set, cnn, for

that matter you got 19 candidates, you say, hey, everybody, two minutes for your opening statement. that's 30 minutes. >> make it random. let everybody have that -- >> look listen we fight these -- these battles from past elections, we have a robust and good bench of candidates now who are going to be shut out that's bad for the party, bad for our ideas. >> it s. >> i say bring us all together, two debates, make them random let the people on the would the tomorrow have the chance to come up. >> you get into the question of matchups, right? if chris christy is a stronger debator and scott walker is a weaker -- who gets the size draw and you who gets the hard draw? i don't know. >> tournament. >> i have heard the comparison to bracket, keep looking at it what they have decided on is the worst possible way of doing next sent for all the others. i can't -- i don't know how you make sense out of the 19-candidate field. debates respect designed to be that big. >> i a agree with phillip. i don't like the idea of people not getting a chance to appear in the debate. i don't think that makes sense. i don't think we should be in the position of decide hog is a viable candidate and who suspect.

so far out now, people don't have big name recognition. i kind of agree with lindsey graham on that no easy way to do it do it on separate nights something like that have it drawn at random i think that's fine. still ahead, jeb bush marking his father's 91st birthday this week on twitter. we will ask one of the people who knows george h. w. bush the best how the former president is feeling about his sons -- his other son's campaign for the white house. that is coming up. first, amazing new details about how this prison worker is alleged to have helped two convicted killers escape. that's next. stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ at chase, we celebrate small businesses every day through programs like mission main street grants. last years' grant recipients are achieving amazing things. carving a name for myself and creating local jobs. creating more programs for these little bookworms. bringing a taste of louisiana to the world. at chase, we're proud to support our grant recipients and small businesses like yours. so you can take the next big step.

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we are going to have more details from dallas later in the show. meanwhile, in upstate new york, as that search continues for two convicted killers who broke out of a maximum security prison more than a week ago, we are now learning about how authorities believe a prison worker helped those men to escape. msnbc's adam reese is live this morning in morrisonville, new york. he joins us now. adam starting to piece together exactly how these guys got out. what are we learning? >> reporter: steve, good morning to you. the district attorney saying she had a very unusual relationship with these convicted killers, not only would she be the get away driver but she was going to actually run off with them as well. the plan was they would meet at midnight at the power station when they made their way out of the map hole cover on the night of the escape. they would then drive seven hours, we don't know where, they could have gone as far west as ohio, as far north as places in maine and canada. if they went south could have made it all the way to philadelphia. but she got cold feet. she say she is loved her husband

too much and she just didn't want to hurt him. today, she is in a rehn sell leer county jail about 160 miles south of here near albany and she will be back in court tomorrow morning at 8:30. adam reese in morrisonville, new york, thank you, appreciate it. still ahead in the show who is in who is out of the gop debates? going to tell how makes that top ten cut. going to show you the numbers just ahead in the show. first, one of george h. w. bush's senior aides weighs in on the gop debates and why he believes history will treat his former president well. ♪ ♪ (vo) you can pass down a subaru forester. (dad) she's all yours. (vo) but you get to keep the memories. love.

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all right. so it's been one of the biggest conundrums of the 2016 campaign, we were talking about it a second ago how do you fit so many candidates on one debate stage? the short answer is you can't. multiple news agencies announcing plans to limit the debate field to only ten candidates which means some presidential hopefuls are going

to be left out. more on that ahead in the show. earlier this he can work i had a chance to ask former new hampshire governor john sununu about a letter of protest from republicans in his home state, even from some of his own family members, to the organizers of the first debate which is going to be held later this summer on august 6th. new hampshire republicans who are looking for a way to make sure more candidates make it on to the debate stage and talked with governor sununu about his impressions of the president he once severed as chief of staff, george h. w. bush, the leader he calls in a new book the quiet man. all right, governor sununu, thanks for joining us. a lot i want to get to you with about the book you have britain but news about your home state the last 24 house probably know what i'm talking about here, a letter signed by 56 new hampshire republicans. i think there are some sununus on this list i don't see your name there protesting the conditions that have been set for this first republican debate, fox news debate capped the number of capped the das,

saying that is unfair all the other candidates should be allowed to get in. wondering what your opinionsome. the old debate debate is that it? no i'm not on that letter. new hampshire likes to have lots of candidates come up and visit and i suspect that governor meryl and governor benson, whose signatures were on the top of that letter former governors, are trying to encourage as many candidates to participate in the whole process and i guess that's what they were expressing. i haven't talked to anybody beyond that. >> with these debate rules, the traditional role of iowa and new hampshire, win knowing the field, sort of picking out the losers that is now being taken over by the people who write the rules of the debatesome that a concern as a new hampshire republican that you have? >> look just remember, iowa picks corn, new what much shire picks presidents. been hearing that line for a

long time. barack obama might disagree with that let me switch gear talk about this book you have written, chief of staff with president george h. w. bush through tumultuous years in this country and i remember when bush was leaving office in speeches he would give the first couple of years he was out of office i noticed he seemed toned every speech by saying i believe history will be kind to us. i know that is something every former president thinks about, their legacy what they are going to be remembered for, but a marley tough situation for bush because he is a one-term president and that sort of historically a bit of a black mark. how do you think history will -- now we have had 25 years almost how do you think history will remember the bush 41 presidency? >> he was right. the latest poll i saw has him tied with bill clinton as the most popular former president. i think history is beginning to understand how significant what

george bush did, not only the foreign policy we know he nurtured the collapse of the soviet union, dealt with it in a way that was absolutely amazing bringing about the automaticfication and making europe whole and free in such a short period of time. and certainly how he handled the gulf war and the fact that he was smart enough not to chase saddam hughes say into baghdad and get the u.s. bogged down in the quicksand of a occupation but people are beginning to realize how prolific he was on domestic policy. he passed more significant domestic legislation than any president except lip done johnson and franklin roosevelt. history is beginning to put all that in context and that's one of the reasons i wrote the book. i wanted to put all of it in one place between two could have source that people would really understand that this president, and i call him the quiet man, really didn't brag about himself but a tremendous impact on america and the world. you mentioned the decision in 1991, toward the end of the gulf

war, no to continue into bid, get use say out of kuwait end it there, bring the troops home after that popularity jumped at 90%, something hike that we know domestic economy took over. i heard the argument made that that decision at the time back in the 1990s, wasn't necessarily a popular one. a lot of people looked at it and said why didn't we finish the job but then seeing what happened in the last decade well, this is what happens when you go into iraq. this is what happens when you get bogged down in an occupation. the case is made that the decision of the second bush president sort of validated the decision of the first bush president. >> well, history is validating the decision of the first bush president. he did take a lot of heat for not having chased saddam up into baghdad, but as we said at the beginning, when people have the perspective of looking back they can make a better judgment. and i think it's pretty clear that that was the right decision. the actions of george w. bush really, people have to put in

perspective, that was following 9/11 and after 9/11 any president of the united states would have to make sure that he left nothing up turned in terms of trying to deal with this issue to prevent a second attack from happening. and i think each one of those decisions in their own context was correct. >> i always think of george w. bush as sort of a throwback in a way, a different kind of republican, a throwback to a different era of republicanism. his father press scott bush in many way a senator from connecticut, i don't want to say more liberal republican but middle of the road republicanism. you mention adam messic record included the clean act, americans with disabilities act, budget accord in 1990 doing a lot of things i look at him and i say are there republicans like george w. bush left anymore? >> you know steve, he actually was conservative. i think he was as conservative as ronald reagan. all that legislation you talk about was written either from a free enterprise point of view or from making sure there is

equality but doing it as a conservative republican would do it his son used the phrase compassionate conservative. he had the guts to veto a badly written civil rights bill and send it back and then get it written correctly so that it would not end up being a quota bill. the clean air act, he changed the approach at missions controls, he made it a market-oriented, incentive-oriented and ended up costing about one fifth as much to even as low as one tenth as much as people expected that kind of reduction of emissions would cost. so i think george bush may have been more mild spoken but i don't think he was not a conservative. i think the rules that he produced were a record that any conservative today would be very proud of having. >> how much does he want jeb bush to become president? >> could have ours every father wants his son to succeed and i did have lunch with the president a couple of weeks ago, went up to kennebunk.

he actually looked a lot better that he looked last october. he was more energized. i think jeb's campaign is part of the reason he is more energized. look, i have a son that was a senator. i have another son in politics. you always want to backs, if you will, in the success of the next generation. >> former new hampshire governor, former white house chief of staff, john sununu appreciate you taking a few minutes today. thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> thanks again to former new sharp shire governor john sununu author of "the quiet man." another hour of news and politics straight ahead. stay with us. are you sure you're not ignoring them in your body? even if you're treating your crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis an occasional flare may be a sign of damaging inflammation. and if you ignore the signs, the more debilitating your symptoms could become. learn more about the role damaging inflammation may be playing in your symptoms with the expert advice tool at crohnsandcolitis.com. and then

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flag day in america, fly those colors with pride today, with hillary clinton out on the trail and ramping up her campaign the political landscape looks very different than it did when her husband was running for president. more on that in just a moment. meanwhile, jeb bush's plan to annihilate his competition, the republican nomination hasn't been quite as dominant as he perhaps been hoping for. so what does the landscape look like for him he's gets ready to officially announce his candidacy tomorrow? also republicans may soon get their wish to dismantle a key part of obamacare, why are some now scared to be getting exactly what they wanted? learning more about what drove a man in dallas to open fire on police headquarters. more on that story ahead. we begin this hour with hillary clinton's big launch. a lot of talk about how her speech yesterday positions her against all of her potential republican opponents but there is another key question here. how much room did she leave for challengers that she faces in

her own party? >> top 25 hedge fund managers making more than all of america's kinder garth.teachers combined and often paying a lower tax rate. when does my hard work pay off? when does my family get ahead? when? i say now. >> that speech yesterday notably heavy on populist economic themes, heavy on cultural liberalism, heavy on the kind of rhetoric you might expect to hear from elizabeth's warren or clinton's primary rival, senator bernie sanders. >> we have to stop the endless flow of secret unaccountable money that is distorting our elections, corrupting our political process and drowning out the voices of our people. we need justices on the supreme

court who will protect every citizen's right to vote rather than every corporation's right to buy elections. if necessary, i will support a constitutional amendment to undo the supreme court's decision in citizens united. >> clinton also listed off what she says will be her top priorities as president, a veritable checklist of the priorities of liberal activists. i will propose that we make preschool and quality child care available to every child in america. lift the crushing burden of student debt. i believe you should have the right to he were paid sick days. that you should have the peace of mind that your health care

will be there when you need it without breaking the bank. is >> in a wake the tone and message of yesterday's clinton launch was jarring, at least if you remember the taupe and message that defined the first clinton presidency back in the 1990s. >> the era of big government is over. over. >> triangulation, they called it, a democratic president sounding like well not a democrat. it was key to the strategy that helped bill clinton win the white house twice in the 1990s and it was a numbers game back then. when it came to winning national elections, the democratic coalition just wasn't big enough. before bill clinton, there was walter mondale. >> the american people will have to pay mr. reagan's bills. the budget will be squeezed. taxes will go up. and anyone who says they won't is not telling the truth to the

american people. >> he ran as a traditional liberal, he won just one state against ronald reagan. >> i accept your nomination for the presidency of the united states. >> dukakis didn't do better he lost 40 states in 1988. so bill clinton tried something different. he pitched his message away from the democratic base to non-liberals to swing voters. he was for the death penalty. he was for free trade. he signed the defense of marriage act, wanted to end welfare as we know it and it worked. clinton turned huge swaths of the country blue in 1992 and he kept them that way in 1996 back-to-back national victories, the first for any democrat since fdr. but now, think about that strategy. think about how hillary clinton has been talking lately on immigration. >> make no mistake, today, not a single republican candidate announced or poe ten, is clearly

and consistently supporting a path to citizenship. not one. if congress continues to refuse to act, as president, i would do everything possible under the law to go even further. >> on criminal justice. >> it is time to end the era of mass incarceration. >> on voting rights. >> i'm calling for universal, automatic voter registration. every citizen in every state in the union. >> notice a pattern? it's the opposite of triangulation. she is aiming straight at the democratic base. and why? because her campaign thinks the math has changed, that the democratic coalition has grown so much in the last 2 0 years that all hillary needs to do now is turn them out. not everyone's on board with this though. democrats from red states see danger in a full-on embrace of the left. that's not good for the country,

west virginia senator joe manchin told the new york times this week but the clinton strategy gets a strong endorsement from the architect of barack obama's 2012 campaign. if a run a campaign trying to appeal to 60 to 70% of the electorate you're not going to russian very compelling campaign for the voters you need says david plouffe. and actually plouffe relied on the same strategy in 2012. it worked then. it may work for hillary, too. but as we have seen these last few years, whipping an election with one thing, being able to govern effectively after an election is another. all right. back with me now, our panel, april ryan white house correspondent with american urban radio networks phillipsome tutts, former campaign manager for bobby jindal and blake zepp of soon to launch cafe.com. i want to get into these questions from two angles hillary embrace the left the angle within the democratic party and what that means for the general election. let's start with the democratic

party, think about the speech yesterday in terms of she still has to get through the primaries, talk about what an overwhelming favorite she is and she is but facing particularly a challenge from bernie sanders, bernie sanders was asked about the speech yesterday. let's play what he had to say. >> she touched on some of the important issues facing this country i think the devil, of course is in eat dales. the question is who has the leadership capabilities to take on a billionaire class style whose greed has no end, at the time, a 99% of all income going to the top 1%. >> and when bernie sanders talks about these, says the devil is in the details, sounds very progressive, saying some of the details he is talking about i think, said she should have a position on the transpacific partnership, she doesn't. minimum became, for raising it will she go to $15 an hour what he is calling for. social security, he says he wants to expand it she hasn't made that commitment yet. debt free college, his idea of debt free college, seemed to

endorse it yesterday, what does that mean? how would she go about doing it? how much room is there, blake? how much room is there for somebody like sanders to get to clinton's left the way obama did in 2008? >> i think they are doing, they being the clinton campaign are doing everything to foreswear that possibility, learn third lesson from last time not looking 15 steps ahead like they did frankly last time absolutely detrimental, i this eight bit dismiss sive of obama, took it for granted and didn't clamp down the way they needed to. they are determined not to do it i was struck by watching the video package you did, which is so much of what the democratic party is doing today is not just the opposite of what they were doing in the '90s but lamb repudiation of what bill clinton did in the '90s, lgbt issues don't ask, don't tell dome marks defense of marriage act, nafta, part -- precursor of what we are seeing now, the tpp. crime, hillary clinton gave this big speech on mass incarceration a big less gassy of the clinton era, that crime bill very

interesting to see this is very much, as i was saying repudiation of that era, hillary clinton is in touch with where the party is today, not where it was in the '90s. >> i see bernie sanders, chafee, owe mally, one have the energy behind him, big rallies, bernie sanders, there room after what you heard? >> almost definite think is room, yesterday was somewhat of a reaction to bernie sanders and his message to the left and also elizabeth warren. people are listening and realizing people are hearing what they are saying. it makes sense. so i think what we are seeing is reaction. one thing i also want to find out from hillary clinton's camp is health care we are dealing with this health care issue and this possibility of what could happen from the u.s. supreme court. i would love to hear what where she stands on that didn't hear about trade yesterday, did not hear about health care, something we need to hear as well. >> phillip, let me ask you in terms of the general election a lot of conversation this week about the idea that the clinton campaign is embracing more of a sort of mobilize the base strategy, when bill clinton was

running a generation ago, hey, got to find these swing voters and pick them off and some criticism of that but the confidence you hear when you talk to people on the democratic side, talk to people around clinton, look the numbers are there the numbers were there for barack obama in 2012 if we can get those voters out. the numbers were there in 2008 if we do it again in 2016 the number russ there for us. have the democrats reached a point where if they turn their people out, they are the majority party in this country? >> no. but what i tell you, your piece was very informative and very good. >> thank you. >> i thought it was very well done. here is one thing i would add in there, you are not talking about the messenger, you are talking about the message and bill clinton and barack obama were incredible messengers. and i don't know if hillary is a great mess.jer. she talks about her family i thought she was a great messenger, like i saw yesterday but 43 of the minute she is spoke, she didn't she talked tactics, talked issues and she was very stilted and that has to resonate in those key target

states. are the electoral college is in the democrats' favor, no doubt. republicans have to grow the women vote they have to grow the minority vote. we know this. this is what we are working on inside our party. but their messenger better be dang good or they are going to be in trouble. >> i think the messenger yesterday hit on a key point that americans talking about the economy, she was talking about the tax code, she was talking about this infrastructure bank to help with what is it building -- building roads, railroads, bridges you know the infrastructure, she talked about fdr. that's what happened with fdr, the interstate system the federal buildings. you're laughing. >> not laughing. talking about yesterday. >> that's what she said yesterday, the song "yesterday," she is talking about now, we are trying to come out stay out of a depression or a recession or what have you and this is what she is trying to look forward and building and building an infrastructure bank and things of that nature. i think she was -- the messenger delivered a message of hope i

believe, remains to be seen. >> ask you, that question of personality though always asking how important is it to voters that they like or can relate to the candidates whatever, you look at what happened in 2008 democratic primaries, i do think that the personality might have been a part of that. there was more -- it seems a lot of people might have been more of a draw to barack obama's personality that hillary clinton's. you talked to republicans, that's one of the reasons a lot of them seem optimistic about marco rubio, say the same thing that happened to her in 2008 with barack obama and the primaries could happen in the jeep election with marco rubio, sort of exciting background, a chance to make history, all those sorts of things. >> i think in primary, different than general elections. in primary, obama and clinton, a difference on the iraq war, a crucial part of the primary, the big part obama captured people's hopes, yes we can, hope and change that kind of stuff a lot was personality driven and i think that ultimately did help a great deal. a jeep election to go back 30

minutes ago, larry sabato saying the candidates are overrated in the general election phillip taking issue with that what he meant by that you do have certain basic facts about demographics electoral college, all things phillip all due respect, glossing over with you look at the issues that hillary clinton and frankly i bernie sanders has the democratic primary are pushing, these are issues this are actually popular wide any a general election immigration reform right, minimum wage, crime reform in terms of mass incarceration, all that kind of stuff. mitt romney had a problem in 2012, he was seep as going too far in the-to--to-to the right, tough -- too far to the right. the issues democrats are talking about are widely popular. >> another political dynasty ready for their own kickoff tomorrow. that candidate just released his

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mrs. clinton was the secretary of state for four years under president obama. and she has a record. and it's a record that she will have to defend. as one political dynasty reignites its presidential ambitions, another appears ready to do the same thing tomorrow. jeb bush is ready to unveil his logo. actually, he unveiled his logo on twitter just a couple of minutes ago. now, it does not include his last name. it is also similar to the logo that jeb has used before back in 1998 and 2002 and campaigns for governor of florida. you see the first name with the exclamation point. comes only 24 hours before jeb

is scheduled to give a speech in miami where it's expected he will announce his candidacy for president of the united states. but the headline in the "new york times" this morning testimonies the story of his campaign so far. headline there jeb bush working to recover from a shaky start from that article, bush finds himself in a position he could not have imagined, part of a pack of candidates in the target of his questions about his own competence and conservatism. jeb bush wrapping up a five-day trip to europe this weekend in which he had hoped to bolster his foreign policy credentials before the jeep campaign begins much his strategists working to accept parity him from the field and one of his primary opponents who they think could be hurt most by a lack of foreign policy experience, scott walker the governor of wisconsin, bush aides telling buzzfeed, walkers of the contend who best you will his straightened the disparity they are hoping to highlight with jeb's trip overseas. holding a press conference at

every stop of his tour in contrast to the no media trip to israel walker took last month. bush hoped a shock and awe-style campaign rollout would catapult him to the 2016 republican nomination and cheer the field but that hasn't happened at least not so far n a crowded republican field can jeb push pick up momentum once again? talk that over with the field. start on this logo. this is the breaking news this morning, we got the jeb bush official logo put it up on the screen, what i notice i have seen this construction before this first name and the exclamation point or name and exclamation point. jeb in 2016. looks like that is going to be the logo. can also look back and see paul wellstone, do we have this? i thought we had it. well we had paul wellstone, there it is. paul wellstone, the late senator from minneapolis briefly explored running for president. he would news in all his campaign, last name with the exclamation mark. lamb czar alexander, 1996 the republican side he had that we couldn't find it i'm almost

sure prove me wrong, hillary clinton in 2000 the senate hillary, exclamation point. seep this one before. but anyway jeb's done it before, too, as well. the jeb bush candidacy. i know obviously, you have some loyalties here to another potential republican candidate. but john kasich out there saying other republicans out there saying this, what jeb bush was supposed to do expected to do he hasn't done. >> i think ironic that kasich says that because kasich ran against his brother in 2000 and got sucked out of -- all the oxygen got sucked out of that campaign. the critical factor is how much money jeb raises in the first quarter that will tell you how viable his super pac is and candidacy is. they are down playing it now. i this from 2000 like i said, i was on dan quayle's campaign. we thought they were going to raise 15 million dollars and they were down playing it going to raise less than $20 million in that first critical quarter and came in at $37 million. >> that's when that meant something. >> then it did mean something

and we went oh my god, it's over. that's not gonna happen here but the viability of staying in the top two or three candidates will and i think they are going to have a shock and awe number. >> i think april, when you look at the rollout, phillip says the number is still going to be there for bush shall the money is still going to be there, but that intimidation factor he is talking about. >> $100 million? . talking about a field of 19 candidates. nobody's intim dated by this guy. >> you know why they are not intimidated, because we have been there done that had daddy and we had brother. so i hate to say that they feel that some of the same. i will say that that new logo is very attractive. i'm sure that -- it's hot. it's hospital. >> you like it? >> took a lot of time. not just gonna put out a logo short, simple sweet, big red exclamation point. i think they are calculated in how they try to embrace but yet distance themselves from foreign policy of brother, brother w, who many -- many of the republicans want to still runaway from but it's still -- he is still there.

he wasn't president. and his dad was president. so i think what's going to happen, the intimidation factor will be tomorrow when he comes out, i know it is going to be very big, seen all of these presidential candidates come out and make this big grandiose statement, they come out, like obama started it when he was running and saw the first one, ted cruz come out, liberty university making everyone come. but this one i believe people will be coming on their own, but he is going to make a statement tomorrow, i can't wait to see, i think the intimidation factor will be there. here's what john mccain said about jeb bush today's "new york times," says he just hasn't met the expectation level of what we expected of a bush. john mccain, john mccain ran against george w. bush in 2000. but blake, the case you hear from people, from push bell now, we are not we are going to intimidate everybody out of the race, this field is going to be exposed in a lot of ways. a guy like scott walk aeshs lack of foreign policy experience will be exposed, marco rubio,

story about his innocence, maybe going to be questions raised about marco rubio and basically months from now, people will look up republicans will look up look at jeb bush and say that is really the only responsible, mature choice we can make. ness i feel like so much of the jeb bush rationale and candidacy is not about voter, not about the issues he can connect with the voters about, the idea that's going to have a ton of money and something not entirely relevant to reaching out to voters and also something that has.been demonstrably proven yet. that's shaky ground on which to have your candidacy. and i think this idea these going to have a huge number, he may, but they had a big shakeup, don't normally have a shakeup with your campaign staff, going great, means something quietly behind-the-scenes that is disastrous, on these campaigns before, i know. the public doesn't know what is going on quietly, things in disarray, a bad sign. something else i will say, look at jeb bush and what's gone wrong, two people to point to that are big parts of this story, george w. bush and marco

rubio. george w. bush as my panelists, co-panelists saying are shadowing him all over the place, jeb why he went to eastern europe to show he could be a commander in chief with a different foreign policy, you noticed, when he went there by the way, much more about his father than brother, talking about the cold war and remember my father. the marco rubio thing i think is significant, a lot of us didn't think they would get in the race bush from florida, rubio from florida rubio not just in but doing quite well. that spells a problem. >> you look at these polls, matching up the republicans against hillary clinton and jeb bush running behind hillary clinton, not doing better than the other republicans out there. in fact doing worse than rand paul marco rubio, they run better against hillary now, tough to sit there and make electability argument at least with those numbers. still ahead what to expect when you are expecting a supreme court decision. a major ruling on the affordable care act due any day now. next as it stands right now, who will be in that first

republican debate and who will not? new numbers. we will show you that cut line right now. stay with us. at chase, we celebrate small businesses every day through programs like mission main street grants. last years' grant recipients are achieving amazing things. carving a name for myself and creating local jobs. creating more programs for these little bookworms. bringing a taste of louisiana to the world. at chase, we're proud to support our grant recipients and small businesses like yours. so you can take the next big step. yoplait greek 100. the protein-packed need something filling, taste bud loving, deliciously fruity, grab-and-go, take on the world with 100 calories, snack. yoplait greek 100. there are hundreds of reasons to snack on it. the world is filled with air. but for people with copd sometimes breathing air can be difficult. if you have copd, ask your doctor about once-daily

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...and mitch. love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru. i'm not sure what the republican national rules are regarding forum. i would like to see them. >> the publisher of the new hampshire union leader joe mcquade, after announcing his newspaper would be hosting its own republican forum one outside the sanctioned debate system set up by the republican national committee. mcquade, along with other prominent new hampshire republicans arguing this would he can that the winnowing of candidates should be left up to the voters and not to television networks because as rules stand right now, for that first republican primary debate on august 6th only the candidates polling in the top ten are going to be allowed on the debate stage. the rest of them relegated to an alternative forum with unclear

parameters on what that would look like and whether it would mean participating in that alternate forum would bar them from participating in any of the future sanctioned debates. a dilemma there potentiallism detractors arguing such a plan would create a second fehr of candidates through arbitrary means. so, who is in that first big official debit on august 6th? who is outed as something likely to be changing week by week if not day by day, if it's worth checking in on we thought, on a regular basis, we will start doing that this week right here at the big board and as you can see, right now, the rules fox has announced for this debit, average of the five most recent national polls that they recognize in advance of that debate. so we took the five most recent national polls, we averaged them to see who makes the cut and who doesn't. where is the cut line right now? top ten candidates you can see it right here that is the list that would be in. these are the candidates potential candidates who would not be on that stage. so let's take a look at what

that means actually. what will that stage look like? here you go. this is what the debate stage would look like right now on fox news on august 6th with these ten candidates in who would be at the what they are calling the kids table, the ones left out, no the have a police at that table and you could see, you have got nine names there so let take a closer look back at those numbers now, break them down, a couple things break out. rick perry is the last candidate right now in that top ten. john kasich the governor of ohio and rick san tore returning the first two candidates who would be out, tied at 2% rick perry, 2.8% that is the difference we are talking about here, .8 of 1% less than 1% right now is the difference between making that huge nationally televised event and being forced to sit on the sidelines. another thing to look at here is this name donald trump. now, donald trump has promised what he is calling a major announcement this week everything that donald trump says he is going to do is major, not sure exactly what that

means. a lot of people say, have been saying for a long time donald trump is pulling a fast one on us here not going to run when all is said and done not going to be a serious candidate for president. donald trump ends up removing himself, gets removed from polling by the pollsters then it creates an opportunity for some of the other candidates to get in. also keep in mind john kasich would be out, john kasich has not announced his candidacy yet. what we are seeing when these candidates have these big events get in, big rallies a lot of press coverage they get a polling bump. kasich a chance to move up in a way maybe santorum can't, because santorum had his big launch. kasich has to do that a chance for him to move up. a lot of flew bid here as we say, a big, momentous thing who makes the top ten, who doesn't? we are going to be checking in on it weekly between now and that first debate. still ahead on the show learning more about yesterday's police standoff in dallas with a man who opened fire on police headquarters from a armed van. next the supreme court has some republicans worried and not

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once you see millions of people having health care once you see that all the bad things that were predicted didn't happen, you think that it may be time to move on. let's figure out how to make it better. it seems so cynical to want to take coverage away from millions of people to take care away from the people who need it the most to punish millions with higher costs of care and up ralph what's now been woven into the fabric of america. >> that was president obama talking this week about continued attacks on his health care law, now five years after its enactment. under the very real threat right now that a key piece of that law could be gutted by the supreme court any day now. the conservative-tilting court could side with the republican-backed lawsuit that would eliminate the subsidies

that make it possible for millions of low-income americans to purchase insurance under obamacare in states that haven't set up their own exchanges. obama minneapolising no words when asked about the case on monday. >> this should be an easy case. frankly, it probably shouldn't even have been taken up. >> if the supreme court decides in their favor, republican leaders will be in a tough spot though. they will be seen as the people potentially who took away health insurance for more than 6 million people in 34 states. the same time they would risk upsetting their up conservative base which wants nothing to do with obamacare and could prevent them from restoring those insurance subsidies through some sort of legislative fix. the health care law divides many in the country, a new "washington post"/abc poll shows a majority of the americans want the supreme court to keep the subsidyies subsidies. this has republicans in congress worrying they might win the very lawsuit that they backed a

classic case of be careful what you wish for. alexander bolt.writes that mitch mcconnell and john boehner are under pressure from those up for re-election to extend the subdiddyies temporarily, but doing so would risk a backlash from the conservative base. joining us is the hill's alex bolden. this dilemma for republicans, potentiallism first of all, the court could say, no rejecting this case and that is end of it. let say the court does take out -- docile with the plaintiffs here and essentially guts obamacare. it could be easily fixed legislatetively, if congress were to pass and obama sign something say, hey, these subsidies now apply to all states shall doesn't matter what the status of their exchangesome what are the odds in that case of republicans passing something like that? >> i think pretty good. because they know that they need to show they can govern as silvia burwell, secretary of health and human services made the point recently if the court strikes these subdiddyies down, it will be up to congress to fix it the administration wouldn't

do anything. up to congress to show they can govern and something mitch michael and john boehner have been talking about since they took over the imagine jurority the senate republicans facing tough elections, wisconsin, illinois ohio, north carolina where hundreds of thousands of people are going to lose their subsidies, they are going to see their premiums increase by as much as 200%. a political disaster for them. coming up with a solution is going to split their party. >> so here's the part where i start to wonder though been such a priority for the republican base to end obamacare. we are still hearing this five years afterle law came out, if you poll it not a republican that wants to touch this thing. if they were to win this and get this big victory they have been seeking for gaviers, and they were just to do a quick fix that does everything, they have gone to war with their own base in a way. i have been hearing the idea i think in your reporting, the idea that republicans would do a temporary extension, but if they do a temporary extension, then the white house is in position to say, no we are going to veto

that because we want a full permanent solution for americans. tension on that front, how long this fix. >> a couple of plans out there, mitch mcconnell signed on to a plan sponsored by ron johnson, facing re-election wisconsin, against russ feingold proposes extending the subdiddies through the middle of 2017 but that's a making conservatives angry the heritage action for america, conservative advocacy group saying that is an overreaction. what's going to happen the republicans rally around this plan and pass it not going to get done because obama is going to veto it going to make the conservative base angry and then we are going to be in this almost government shutdown standoff, two sides blaming each other for why people got their subsidies stripped. republicans say, we passed legislation to extend these another 18 months two year the president vetoed them. i think as we saw in the government shutdown battle obama has more credibility on

the obamacare on what's -- on obamacare subsidies since it is his law, democrats are feeling confident the republicans will get the blame for this like they did in the government shutdown and why they are not making any effort to fix what could be a public policy disaster. >> phillip, curious what your take is on that dilemma the republican party could be facing. how far would the republican base allow the republican congress to fix something if the supreme court case is is dead? >> everything is about the presidential campaign. if congress falls on their swords so it doesn't affect the presidential candidates i think they would be willing to do this and make it sort of up for election again and make it 2006 another mandate on a presidential campaign. i think that's what the -- strategy is. >> they go along with it temporary, like basically saying -- >> no no they would be mad, but they would be mad at congress, not the presidential candidates saying scrap it and then becomes an issue for 2016 on the presidential campaign. look i defer to phillip

expertise about republicans, alex expertise on washington and that sort of stuff, seems to me from watching this house gop that, you know over the last several years, this is not a caucus that john boehner has a lot of control of over not people thinking about long-term strategy, they have very conservative districts that they are reporting to these are not people, when i say these people i mean actual members of congress on the republican side who are doing things that will make their base upset. and i think that if obama care any aspect of it gets struck down it seeps very hard to imagine that these people would then vote to restore parts of obama care like you are saying and upset their base. worried about primaries, just seems up likely. you're get nothing that divide talked about it so much the house divide too the senator, incumbent senators swing states they have to worry more about general election. >> in the house, these guys are worried about being the next eric captor lose to someone on your right. >> we got to run out of this one. going to get more from you in the next block april, i promise

my thanks to alex bolton from the hill appreciate you joining us. still ahead, we are learning more about what drove a man in dallas to open fire on police headquarters there. more on that story ahead. and next was it a pack of cigarettes or not? the reporter who asked that question is sitting right here. that is next. stay with us. welcome to fort green sheets. welcome to castle bravestorm. it's full of cool stuff, like... my trusty bow. and free of stuff i don't like. we only eat chex cereal. no artificial flavors, and it's gluten-free. mom, brian threw a ball in the house!

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i've smoked a lot and quit a lot but ended up nowhere. now i use this. the nicoderm cq patch, with unique extended release technology helps prevent the urge to smoke all day. i want this time to be my last time. that's why i choose nicoderm cq. police in dallas are learning more this morning about what led to yesterday's bizarre shootout and standoff with the map who opened fire on police headquarters from his armored van. we get those details from nbc's charles hadlock in dallas. >> reporter: dallas police say they have never seep anything like it. >> oh my god. >> reporter: a braise.attack on police headquarters overnight saturday. boy a man driving an armored vehicle loaded with automatic weapons and pipe bombs. shots the headquarters. >> reporter: the bullets

whizzing by standers running for their lives. shots fired. >> reporter: josh gilbo recorded the sounds on his cell phone. >> 10, 15 minutes of non-stop gunfire. >> reporter: the armored vehicle rammed several patrol cars. >> rigged with explosives. >> reporter:ed at a jack in the box parking lot but followed by a tense standoff. the gunman, 35-year-old james boulware of dallas told police he had expose sive and was upset about a child custody case. boulware was arrested three years ago for family violence. back at headquarters police found several bags they suspected contained pipe bombs, one exploded when a robot tried to pick it up. fearing boulware may try to drive away again, a police sniper shot the engine disabling the vehicle. and later, after police say negotiations had failed they fired through the windshield killing him. boulware's father says his son

had a history of mental illness and blamed police for losing custody of his son. >> every one of us has a breaking point. some at one point, some at another. but we all have one. >> reporter: jim boulware says his son bought the armored van last week planning to live in it. instead, it's where he died surrounded by more pipe bombs police believe he intended to use on them. charles hadlock, nbc news dallas. all right, charles hadlock in dallas. appreciate that report. a lot more to come on the show, but first, if you've been wondering why we have had a flag on our desk all morning, well it is our way of celebrating june 14th, otherwise known as flag day the holiday woodrow wilson first established 99 years ago to commemorate the adoption of the american flag. it is a big day in places like quincy massachusetts, not far from where i grew up which has the longest running flag day parade in the nation or how

about three oaks michigan fairfield, washington both of them claim to have the oldest continuing flag day parades. and the largest flag day parade well that can be found in troy new york. happy flag day, everyone. if you are near one of those places go see a parade today. today is a special day to let those flags fly, even if it's in a mug. ♪♪ in the nation, we know how you feel about your car. so when coverage really counts you can count on nationwide. ♪ love ♪ because what's precious to you is precious to us. ♪ love is strange ♪ just another way we put members first. join the nation. ♪ baby... ♪ ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ you've heard of a "win today is a special day to let pick up the limited edition metallic droid turbo by motorola. water-repellent. up to 48-hour battery life and ballistic nylon back. that's your first "win."

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. can you tell us does the president have a pack of cigarettes in his hand? >> he does not. >> what was it? >> i don't know. i probably wasn't there. >> i understand but did he tell you what it was? >> you may not be surprised to hear i have not raised this issue with the president today. >> the president, as you acknowledged, he breeds media reports everywhere. >> i'm not sure that's how i would describe it. >> it is everywhere. check it out. >> i have.

>> the size of it looks slight so you're saying -- >> i told you it's not cigarettes. let's move on. >> wow, the new sam donaldson in the white house press room in an exchange between our guest april ryan and white house press secretary josh earnest on wednesday. what were they discussing? they were discussing this picture that was posted on instagram by the office of the spokesperson of the italian prime minister. the question there of what did president obama have in his hands? can we take a closer look. here we go. this is what april is talking about. a lot of the chatter out there on line around the country about, well the president, we know he's a former smoker he says he's a former smoker is he still maybe a current smoker? april, what did you learn from josh earnest there? >> that he didn't want to talk about it. i didn't learn anything from josh about that, but i will say this. the picture shows us something, and if the president is indeed smoking again, that's his

prerogative, but he said he was someone who had tried to kick the habit when he came into the white house. so that's the only reason why i asked, looking at that picture. and i got a lot of twitter hate from that question a lot of twitter hate. so -- i don't know. >> any chance that could be an e-cigarette? >> my name is bennett, i'm not in it i have to go back to the white house tomorrow. >> just asking. >> it could be big league too. you put it in that's how do you it. >> have a donut on that one, yes. >> you want to bring this with you to the white house tomorrow to mend some fences. good for you for asking the question. >> i have to mend fences. they don't like that question. >> the other thing, it's europe. smoking is a much more recreational thing in europe isn't it still? >> there's a war on cigarettes unless it's obama, but frankly, i don't care. >> you said the operative thing when you introduced the piece.

it was the spokesperson from the italian prime minister's office. it was not leaked or printed, published by the white house. >> interesting. there are other things going on. this is our catching up segment, so let's see what else is going on squeeze a few more stories in here. this is from the rap. jeb bush is set to appear on jimmy fallon's tonight show. he is going to appear on tuesday. president obama has made late night appearances on jimmy kimmel, david letterman. this is bush going on fallon. >> this is a cross-promotion you're doing right now. >> i guess so come to think of it. >> i want to see if he does a gop rap where he drops the mic. >> that's the thing on fallon. he doesn't just have him sit on the couch. >> they do some dancing on that show. >> he might get some cool points for that. >> he did that with mitt romney a few months ago. people were saying that's a

different mitt romney. this is from ad age. crystal pepsi is poised for a comeback. do you remember when this first came out in 1992? it lasted only a few years. it is just clear pepsi. i remember it. i don't think it tasted very well. we got a bush running for president again, we got a clinton running for president again, bring the mighty ducks back. who else can we bring back? >> everything is a coke. crystal pepsi is a coke. >> no the south is mountain dew. >> is there a crystal mountain dew? >> i don't know but it's yellow. >> when crystal pepsi came out, snl did a fake ad -- they did crystal crystal gravy. be looking for that on a shelf near you. thanks to today's panel, frank zef zeff, april ryan. up next is melissa

harris-perry. stay tuned. we'll see you next weekend. have a great week.

this morning, my question what makes you black or white, man or woman? plus mckinney, texas and the fraught question of swimming pools and segregation. the young designer who broke the internet this week. but first, hillary clinton tells supporters why she's running. good morning, i'm melissa harris-perry. hillary clinton, the by far front-runner democratic nomination for president held her first big rally yesterday in manhattan and sought to paint a picture what america under hillary clinton would look like. >> i believe that success isn't measured