t the side of the president of the united states, the head of the free world, telling young ladies you can overcome people's perceptions and biases if you educate yourself and believe in yourself, that's the kind of first lady that we can respect and is admired all over the world. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. trump card. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. it's happened. after four campaigns of promising to enter a presidential campaign, donald trump has made the leap at least into the first debate. the question now splashing from the pool of candidates is what this wave of human push and ego will do. will it swamp the front-runners

those who were already his ready targets. will it displace the nomination with a battle simply to be heard above the donald and all his celebrity driven sturm and drum. will we be able to hear anybody else when the golden light shines on the golden boy from gothham. let's not forget how he's clutched the media's attention with an indictment that the president of the united states is foreign and illegitimate that he forced his way into the country's highest office but the country's life itself. can this man now be taken seriously as his wannabe successor? michael steele the former chair of the republican national committee, joan walsh, both are msnbc pliktal analysts. let's watch him do it. >> these are the best and the

finest. when mexico sends us people they're not sending their best. they're not sending you, they're not sending you. they're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems with us. they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists and some, aassumei assume are good people. >> that was nice, wasn't it, joan, there are some. where is this operation chief somewhere in hq mexico guadalajara is sending people off in droves in different complements of troops it's all organized by some capital and some province in mexico. even if the notion that he talks in seems fictitious. >> it's crazy. >> is that too strong a word? >> no not too strong a word.

we can say racist. this is like half the size of cantaloupes except it's not as funny. it's really dangerous for the republican party. i felt like what we were seeing was kind of a bizarro world version of jeb bush's speech the day before. jeb breaks into spanish, donald trump breaks into nativist. and i think it's terrible for the party. i'm so happy about one thing. that's that my friend michael does not have to preside over this circus. >> i was looking out to the crowd. i don't know whether black, white, mixed crowd, it's really not important. but he says to the crowd in saluting their native-borndom, they're not sending you, you're good people. what a pander that is. not people like you. these dregs, these losers these criminals, these dealers. first of all, who was he going for? let's talk politics. >> chris, this clearly wasn't the give me your tired, the poor your hungry. >> don't give me any more of them is what it was. >> this wasn't that speech.

look, that's donald. donald throws down. he throws down hard and stuff splatters everywhere. and interesting challenge for the republican -- other republican candidates is what type of check they're going to be on that kind of language that sentiment. is that going to be the brand that goes forth in the 2016 campaign or is it something else? and i think joan touched on a very important contrast between what we heard come from jeb bush yesterday in reaching out to the hispanic community and what we heard today, not so much. >> well as i mentioned, the donald, as he is was one of the most outspoken birthers in the country for the last half dozen years questioning the president's place of birth again and again and again saying he's basically -- somebody snuck him under the fence from kenya. let's watch him at it. >> why doesn't he show his birth certificate? and you know what? i wish he would. because i think it's a terrible

pale that's hanging over him. i'm a really smart guy. i was a really good student at the best school in the country. the reason i have a little doubt, just a little is because he grew up and nobody knew him. nobody ever comes forward. nobody ever knows who he is until later in his life. very strange. if barack obama opens up and gives his college records and applications and if he gives his passport applications and records, i will give to a charity of his choice. >> as recently as this february 2015 trump continued to play the birther card. let's watch him at it. >> i still would like to see his college records. i'd like to see a couple of things. i'm not looking at his marks. i'd like to see where he put on. look, he wrote a book when he was a young man, and it said born in kenya, blah blah blah. i'd like to see it. trump comes along and says birth certificate. he gave a birth certificate. whether or not that was a real

certificate because a lot of people question it i certainly question it. >> okay. where do we start with this joan this attempt to delegitimize the president saying he snuck into american life. he may not even have been in american life. he may not have gone to those schools because nobody knew at those schools. the indictment here is so colossal that he's a fiction himself that obama never really existed in these schools because nobody knew him, so how could he prove he ever went to these schools. >> right. >> to get down to the level of this indictment is pretty raw. i have a thought about it but your thoughts first. >> it is raw and it trades on all the worst right-wing stereotypes about the president. he's kenyan he's foreign, also he's not very bright. we don't know what he really did in school. he may be fabricating that he's not competent. it pulls them all together in this massive questioning of his identity. i thought the day that the president had to show his long

form birth certificate was a truly sad day when this carnival barker gets the president to show his papers. >> his papers like he stopped him in his car and said show me your license. >> show me that you deserve to be here. it was disgusting. >> michael, my friend i want your thoughts then i'll give you my thoughts because i'll ek panned on them later about why he does this. in north philadelphia during the campaign in 2008 you know the neighborhood. it's down around temple and the neighbor's never really changed. a working class black neighborhood. kind of tough, tough neighborhood. it's never gotten off the ground. when obama came in here and gave his big speech i thought he'd be promising people benefits but he said i want to bring this country together. we're going to be one country. that got the biggest applause from these people who have nothing. could have asked for anything and they don't have it and all they wanted was to be 100%

accepted as not just equal american fellow american one of us. lebron james just as much an all-american as tom brady. that's all they wanted. just to be fully accepted as american. and this guy comes along and plays the card. your guy, the one elected president, even he's not one of us. he's a foreigner. he snuck in the country. he's a liar. what do you think of that michael? i think it's eating at the heart. but an equal fellowship. he says, oh no even your best guy is a fraud and a foreigner. i think he knew exactly what he was doing because the 20% of the country that still have a problem with this proposition cheered it. a lot of his business partner, his business dealings he makes with people. >> the lowest common denominator, there's no doubt about that. i think that in large measure the vast majority of the american people rejected that

argument and have moved away -- >> when are the republican party going to reject it? why don't these just say i will not debate a man who goes after the president that way? >> well i hope they do. and if he does i hope in that moment on that stage that one of those individuals rises to the occasion and puts the appropriate check in place. i really do. i think they would. but i don't think that's going to be donald's play this time. i think donald wants to have a more serious, if i can use that term, conversation about some of the things that are important to him. but this was not the way to start that conversation when you use the name calling, when you make pejorative comments about people. look, you sit here and build a wall and send the bill to mexico as president. you'll be waiting a long time to get that check. that's not presidential. that's a tone that he's going to have to change i think. >> there's no excuse here for lack of intelligence.

donald trump is as smart as anybody who has run for president. he knows how to make money and how the world works and he does this. i don't know why he does it. >> also he had a speech and he checked it. i don't know if the racist line was in there. he's disciplined. michael is way too kind way too optimistic. the only thing i'll say, the only proviso i'll put on this he may not really run. this is not, quote, official. he's not filed papers with the fec. we may have just watched a 45-minute infomercial where he got to claim that he's worth $10 million. >> he's in first debate joan. i think we can be sure of that. >> i hope so. >> he wants to be on that stage, on that first debate in august. he is running second third in most national polls. he is going to want to be on that stage. but i think donald's going to have to do a little bit different approach in order to stay on that stage. >> we'll see.

donald trump did what he does best today, he sold the brand. he sold donald trump. let's watch him in action. >> our country needs a truly great leader. and we need a truly great leader now. we need a leader that wrote the art of the deal. i will be the greatest jobs president that god ever created. i don't need anybody's money. it's nice. i don't need anybody's money. i'm using my own money. i'm not using the lobbyists, i'm not using donors. i don't care. i'm really rich. i'm proud of my net worth. i've done an amazing job. it was even reported incorrectly yesterday. because they said he had assets of $9 billion. i said no that's the wrong number. that's the wrong number. not assets. i'm not doing that to brag because you know what? i don't have to brag. i don't have to. believe it or not.

>> what do you make of this guy? i get the point. he's $9 billion in net worth. an amazing success story. no doubt about it. i give him credit for it. but i was always taught don't ever say you're rich. you say we're comfortable. he breaks all the rules. i mean braggadocios. >> chris, if i could, that's a very important point. he breaks the rules. he's a guy that walks into the china shop and just goes through it. and that's where the party is right now with him. you're going to have to a lot of very staid coiffed and prepared candidates standing on that stij and to their right or to their left will be donald trump. >> who will say anything. >> to as coiffed as he is -- >> i don't know if he's coiffed if i were you. >> he'll say absolutely anything. it will be very entertaining for us. what if he keeps somebody like jaus case john kasich off the stage?

i would think that's a big problem for you guys. >> i would bet you that a john kasich or bobby jindal or carly fiorina who are going to be sitting at home that night because they didn't reach the magic number a real problem. >> let's agree now we have some common ground coming up here. donald trump did talk about the need to rebuild our roads, bridges and airports. let's watch some common ground here. let's watch. >> we have to rebuild our infrastructure, our bridges, roadways, our airports. you come into laguardia airport, it's like we're in a third world country. and i come in from china and qatar and different places. and they have the most incredible airports in the world. you come back to this country and you have l.a.x. disaster you have all these disasters. airports. >> donald trump, a broken clock is right twice a day. he's right on that one. i'll tell you. down in south africa a new

country, newly democratic a country that has the most beautiful airport in the word and we've got jfk. anyway, thank you, michael steele thank you, joan walsh. a hot fight brewing between the right wing in this country and pope francis, the holy father is about to release a cyclical saying climate change is man made and we need to take urgent action to combat it. now we have conservatives some running for president caught between their ideology and their religion. rachel dolezal, the white woman who resigned as head of the naacp in spokane. she says she identifies with being black. we'll get to that with our roundtable tonight. what's a republican debate going to look like with donald trump on the stage? he's a gifted bomb thrower. finally let me finish with a matter donald trump needs to settle before we look at him as a serious candidate.

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don't look now but bernie sanders is coming on strong in new hampshire. let's check the hardball scoreboard. according to a new poll from suffolk hillary clinton's lead is now ten points clinton's at 41 bernie sanders at 31. the battle for the hearts and minds of progressives is on. it's real. audible safety beeping audible safety beeping audible safety beeping the nissan rogue with safety shield technologies. the only thing left to fear is you imagination. nissan. innovation that excites.

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the comcast business voiceedge mobile app. it lets you switch seamlessly from your desk phone to your mobile with no interruptions. i've never felt so alive. get the future of phone and the phones are free. comcast business. built for business. welcome back to "hardball." man-made climate change is real and we must act on it now. that's the headline in the pope's cyclical from the church that's due out thursday this week. a draft was just leaked to the press. the pope will make a moral and scientific call for urgent action on global warming saying that quote, plenty of scientific studies point out that the last decades of global warming have been mostly caused by the great concentration of greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide, methane, nitrogen oxide and other, especially generated by human action.

the poor and the berth are shouting, care about the world that we inhabit. anyway, the pope's words are a strong denunciation of what we're hearing on the hard right, especially among presidential hopefuls. here's just a sampling of the flat-earthers, if you will running for president. >> i do not believe that human activity is causing these dramatic changes to our climate the way these scientists are portraying it. >> somebody tell me what a hundred years data is in a earth that's 4.6 billion years old. my guess is that the conclusions that you make from that are not conclusive. >> for the people to say the sciences decided on this is just really arrogant. >> do you believe climate change is real? >> you know i'm always troubled by theory that fits every perfect situation. >> this whole global warming hoax this winter is brute ap. i mean i'm in new york right now. the airports are closed everything's closed. it's freezing. >> susan milligan is a political

writer with u.s. news & world report and president of the pro-hillary group, correct the record. i love that. just the facts, ma'am. you know the pope is a strong force in the world. people friends of mine who are jewish, not just the catholic church. he seems to have a moral authority and maybe now intellectual authority that we haven't seen on this issue. >> absolutely. first of all, we have to say from a historic standpoint here, its just so profound what he's saying. we have to pay attention though this earth while we're here. it's a gift from god. we have to take care of it. the pope has been a leader not just on this issue but on income inequality and trickle down economics. here you have the world leaders who can't get their act together on it and it's the pope stepping up saying we need to pay attention to this. it does create problems for some of the conservative candidates christian right candidates who are using the church for their

world view. >> look at jeb today. he's a catholic of course. he reacted to the news at a town hall in new hampshire. here's jeb bush. >> i hope i'm not like going to get castigated for saying this by my priest back home but i don't get economic policy from my bishops or my cardinals or from my pope. there are parts of miami that with a couple of inches three or four or five inches of rising sea level could create huge problems. my attitude is i don't think the science is complete but i do think we need to create long-term policies for adaptation. the climate is changing whether men is doing it or not, in the case of the sea level rising in miami is kind of irrelevant. >> so what is his proposal for dealing with the sea level rising? gondolas? in other words, don't go to the cause but deal with the solution. so the water's coming up so get boats and move around the city.

>> we have boats and maybe use marco rubio. >> that's what he's saying. >> sometimes i think there are 25 people left in this country that don't believe in climate change. it's the koch brother, the head of the rnc. >> tell me this how do you explain why the republicans as a party now don't believe in the science? why are they rejecting it? >> a couple things. the koch brothers are a huge influence. >> oil and gas. that's what they sell. fossil fuels is not what they want limited. >> exactly. they've sent a group over to the vatican to protest the pope. i mean these are the koch brothers are fighting with the pope. the gop is fighting with the pope. the base of their party does not believe in this type of science. by the way, there are some in their party who don't believe in the science behind vaccines and they're playing to this crowd in the republican primary. >> you know what i'm talking about, a lot of the church the

stuff about sexual behavior all about same-sex and abortion it's not always about life but about sexual discipline and behavior. this is a life issue, life on this planet. that's why the pope's involved in it. if conception -- if life begins with conception how about human life begins on this planet? it's endangered over time. it's a legitimate concern of a moral leader. rush limbaugh is calling the pope a marxist for his views on climate change. >> every other word seems to be about how unfettered capitalism is destroying the world and how the rich countries have to give more money to the poor countries to make amends. i mean that's -- call it what you want marxism, socialism, what have you. >> rick santorum, a traditional catholic and the runner-up of the republican party race four years ago is criticizing the pope. santorum is calling global

warming a hoax. >> i would just say this that the church has gotten it wrong a few times on science, and i think that we probably are better off leaving science to the scientists and focusing on what we're really good at which is theology and morality. >> well that is a punch to the stomach, going back to the old medieval church. >> what's incredible about that comment is republicans don't want to listen to anyone. they don't want to listen to the pope. rick santorum says the church doesn't do science but they won't listen to scientists. 90% of sintsists say man-made global warming exists. they won't listen to the scientists! it's extraordinary. >> when will democrats listen to the economists on trade? keep moving. >> they're suggesting that there's no moral component at all to either the economy or the environment, and that's really i think the fundamental problem

here. >> republican senator jim inhofe chairs the senate committee, he's perhaps the biggest science denier in the republican party. this february he brought a snowball on to the senate floor to disprove global warming. >> i asked the chair, you know what this is? it's a snowball. and just from outside here. so it's very very cold out, very unseasonal. so therefore, catch this. mm-hmm. >> point made. he doesn't believe in man-made global warming because according to the bible, god controls the climate. >> my point is god's still up there. and the areas of people who think that we human beings would be able to change what he is doing in the climate is, to me, outrageous. >> kind of ayatollahish, going to religion on these questions

and that point of view. >> they go to religion and then ignore the pope. they say we should let the science dictate. but then ignore the scientists. who they're listening to is the base of their party and the koch brothers. they sponsor an exhibit at the smithsonian -- >> you're like me one of the people that really tries to understand politics as economics. almost everything is explicable. almost everything. i am a determinist. they should get a tax deduction for their campaign contributions because it's all in their interests. >> exactly right. >> thank you. mr. matthews says we can handle it. up next new information about the man hunt for those two escaped killers. seriously, what do you think about these guys? have they probably done something right in their life learn how to get away. the trail looks cold right now. ere's some facts about seaworld we'd like you to know. we don't collect killer whales from the wild. and haven't for 35 years.

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well the manhunt for those two convicted killers who broke out of the new york state prison are now into its 11th day. according to a senior new york official authorities have received no solid intelligence over the past four days as to where they are. also today the husband of joyce mitchell, that prison worker who has been charged with helping the convicts escape visited his wife in jail today. msnbc's adam reiss joins us from new york. are they in that forest or have they given up there? >> reporter: we don't know. they're expanding their search to other areas around dannemora. there have been a thousand tips. 800 searchers are out here but there hasn't been one solid lead. it looks like the trail has gone cold. >> that opens the question could they have gotten away in those six hours before the prison authorities were alerted to their escape? could they have gotten a hitch somewhere?

>> reporter: it's quite possible. we've learned that they haven't really set up the checkpoints until a period of time after they left. so it's quite possible they made their way out of the perimeter before all of these checkpoints were set up. >> we're looking at a guy right now on the stock film or the recent film here of a guy going way down into a hole. are they looking for them in holes? what are they doing? >> reporter: they're looking everywhere, chris. they're going through the forest, they've got dogs. they're talking to people inside the prison corrections officers, people in the town. they're still going house to house. they're talking to residents. they're talking to everyone. they might be talking to people in canada people in mexico as far away as cal. they say they're looking everywhere. nothing is out of the question. >> what about the meeting today between the prison worker who has been charged with helping them to escape and her husband? what do we know from that meeting? anything? >> reporter: despite allegations that she wanted him dead her

husband still supports her. he went and visited her. they met through a plexiglas window. she told her attorney she was actually happy to see him. she said that she's distraught weepy, upset, remorseful that she's helped these two guys escape jail. >> what a story this is. thank you so much msnbc's adam reiss. up next a republican presidential debate with the bombastic donald trump on the stage. wheat get to that next.

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i'm milissa rehberger. tropical storm bill made landfall this morning between houston and corpus christi, texas. it is bringing heavy rain and flooding to parts of the state. jay gray is in houston. hi, jay. >> hey there.

we continue to see bands of rain moving through the downtown area. it's been that way throughout the day. as you talk about tropical storm bill making landfall around midday here in texas, the effects of that could be seen on the coast, gal veton, with punishing waves there. winds that picked up in excess of 60 miles per hour at times there. but it's not the wind that's the issue. it's the rain. some areas could see 4 to 8 inches. others hard hit could see a foot of water, this coming after catastrophic flooding just three weeks ago in the houston area. many of the rivers the bayous the bonds still very full. close to their banks. this extra rain could cause problems. that's the latest here in houston. we'll continue to watch it. >> thank you, jay gray in houston. now back to "hardball." there's been no crowd like this, and i can tell you some of the candidates they went in they didn't know the air

conditioner didn't work. they sweated like dogs. they didn't know the room was too big because they didn't have anybody there. how are they going to beat isis? i don't think it's going to happen. >> we're back. that was donald trump declareing his candidacy for president and making jokes about some of his gop rivals. republicans better get used to trump taking personal shots at them. just wait for those gop debates coming up in august. today was new exception. trump wasted no time going after jeb bush and marco rubio. here he goes. >> you looked at bush. it took him five days to answer the question on iraq. he couldn't answer the question. he didn't know. i said is he intelligent? then i looked at rubio. he was unable to answer the question. is iraq a good thing or a bad thing? he didn't know. he couldn't answer the question. how are these people going to lead us? how are we going to go back and

make it great again? we can't. they don't have a clue. they can't lead us. they can't. they can't even answer simple questions. it was terrible. >> looked pretty good there. trump didn't stop there. he continued his assault on jeb. here he goes. >> bush is totally in favor of common core. i don't see how he can possibly get the nomination. he's weak on immigration. he's in favor of common core. how the hell can you vote for this guy? you just can't do it. >> so what happens when donald trump actually gets on the stage with the rest of the crowded 2016 gop field and how his rivals respond to that? joining the roundtable tonight jonathan capehart with "the washington post," liz merit is a republican strategist and heidi is a reporter for bloomberg. let's start right down the line here. you throw this guy into the pool. the water splashes like mad and everybody gets swamped. nobody gets a lot of attention once he shows. >> when you have that many

people on the stage no one's going to get a whole lot of attention. so the thinking will probably be get your soundbite in. donald trump, as we know from years of watching this guy, is a soundbite machine. so you take that plus i'm still not convinced the guy is -- we're going to be talking about him come january or february. >> let's talk august. >> august? >> if he's going to be there. >> no, he's going to be there. he's a guy who really doesn't care. so he'll say anything. >> suppose he goes from say, seventh or eighth where he is now, liz, and he does one of the ross perots and pops up to third. will he walk away when he's in contention? >> i have no idea what the ultimate game plan is here. my opinion is this is all a publicity stunt. >> even if he's doing well he would quit? >> i don't know. what i will say with regard to the debates, if i were advising any of the candidates, i would tell them to work on the

presumption that he's going to be there. make sure they've done their opposition research on everybody else on the stage including him and be ready to fire back at him. >> would you fire back? >> yes i would. yes, i would. i would absolutely fire back. >> try the shake it off. >> you have to fire back. >> you have to. >> there's no one more happy about this than the. >> you can't let a guy knock your head off and act like it diplomat happen. >> you have to respond. but the problem is like liz says, they have to come in and do extra and says i'll steal your line. he's going to create some awkward moments. >> trump said all he hears is talk. isn't it funny? all he hears is talk from his republican rivals in the gop. here he is. >> i watched the speeches of these people and they say the sun will rise the moon will

set, all sorts of wonderful things will happen. and people are saying what's going on? i just want a job. just get me a job. i don't need the rhetoric. i want a job. >> look i have a theory about this guy. it's so simple. the average working guy out there male sees him as the wife golden buildings, he's a comic figure comic book figure. he has a lot of dash to him, splash to him. do you think people connect and say, maybe he can create jobs. seriously, any chance they'll see a connection? >> they might see a connection. but going back to the debate stage, if he does one of these zingers that hits a little too close to home, that is a little too rude a little too over the line, he will fizzle. people like bite in candidates but they don't like the bite to go in so deep that it's offensive. >> right. >> and he said some things today

that were offensive. >> called people losers. >> immigrants coming up some of them are rapists. >> some of them are good actually. >> some of them are good. >> he once said about george w. bush. he may not be the worst president in history but he's certainly the stupidest. he just says that stuff. what happens if jeb's standing there when he says that? my brother, you're talking about my brother. >> it will be an awkward moment and he'll probably just dismiss it elegantly and move on. but back to your point on the jobs argument. we are talking about a time in american history when there's no other issue that creates more anxiety in this country than job losses. here is the guy that actually patented the trademark on the phrase, "you're fired." >> president obama -- >> i think there are a lot of people out there who are just angry and pissed off and are probably going to be drawn to some of the rhetoric but the firing back will be important because people have to shut that

down. >> obama has speech writers. but if you have enough time to set up the artillery. president obama president obama at the correspondents dinner a couple years ago. >> donald trump is here tonight. now, i know that he's taken some flak lately but no one is happier, no one is prouder to put this birth certificate matter to rest than the donald. and that's because he can finally get back to focusing on the issues that matter like did we fake the moon landing. what really happened in roswell. and where are biggie and tupac? >> that's like roosevelt in the

speech. but it took time to get that ready, bring in the artillery, get jokes ready. roundtable staying with us. it is possible to identify yourself as black if you're white? we'll talk about that with our expert here. john has been writing about it. we'll talk about that and the interview with the woman, we'll show a bit of that, too. that said she was black. when you're not confident your company's data is secure the possibility of a breach can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. we monitor network traffic worldwide, so we can see things others can't. mitigating risks across your business. leaving you free to focus on what matters most.

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here is a simple math problem. two trains leave st. louis for albuquerque at the same time. same cargo, same size, same power. which one arrives first? hint: it's not the one on the left. the speedy guy on the right is part of an intelligent system that creates the optimal trip profile for all trains on the line. and the one on the left? uh, looks like it'll be counting cows for awhile. so maybe the same things aren't quite the same. ge software. get connected. get insights. get optimized. we're back with the roundtable. jonathan, liz and heidi. civil rights activist rachel dolezal resigned yesterday as the chapter president of the naacp in spokane after she was accused of being dishonest and deceptive with her identity. it began when she was asked this question -- >> are you african-american?

>> i don't -- i don't understand the question. >> are your parents, are they white? >> according to her parents, rachel dolezal is a white -- is white but had been presenting herself since 2007 as an african-american. further scrutiny revealed she had identified an african-american man as her father on facebook and she had invented stories about her childhood. her claims had sparked outrage across the country but she's now speaking out to try to explain why she identifies as a different race. here's what she had to say in an interview with melissa harris-perry. >> from a very young age felt a -- a spiritual, visceral just very instinctual connection with black is beautiful, you know just the black experience and wanting to celebrate that. and i didn't know thou articulate that as a young

child. kindergartner, you don't have words for what's going on. but certainly that was shut or whatever. you don't have words for what's going on. but certainly that was -- that was -- i mean i was socially conditioned to not own that and to be -- be limited to -- to whatever biological identity was thrust upon me. >> jonathan you've been talking on this you've been writing about it i want to hear what you think. >> look had rachel dolezar simply said yes, i identify with that connection, i feel a connection to that community, that would have been great. if she had done that and not fabricated her own life stole, if she had just said i identify as black yes -- >> what does that mean identify as black? >> someone who identifies with the culture, who identifies with the people who feel strongly not just here but here. >> what about the make up and

the hair and all this this effort to look black? is that all right with you? >> that's fine with me too, if shaes what she wants to do if that's how she wants to express her black identity as she sees it, fine. >> has anybody else ever done this that you know of? >> not that i know of. but my problem here is her entire story is fabricated. she said she lived in a tee pea and she had to hunt with bowes and arrows for their food. not true. she put a picture of an african-american man herself with an african-american man on the naacp facebook page says this is my dad, he's going to come to the event. that's not her father. she made stories up. that's why i think so many black people around the country are angry. you don't have to be -- you don't have to be black to run an naacp chapter. >> what's your -- >> the part jonathan this i'm hearing also from african-american women is it's not just a lie, but it's a lie

that's basically parachuting into this identity of being a black at a point where it's beneficial for her furthers her career, without having actually lived the black experience, going through the discrimination and the barriers -- >> but it's based on african ya studies. she wants to engage and join that culture. liz. >> i just can't get over the weirdness of this story overall. i keep trying to think of something really intelligent and meaningful to say about this and i just think this lady is nuts and -- >> well you know -- >> and i just hope what this doesn't do is have this story detract from my meaningful work that she was doing. because some of my african-american friends have expressed a little bit of worry about that to me. but the whole thing just strikes me as completely awful. >> she can reboot if she wants to. she was asked whether she's a conartist. that's a tough question. here is what she said.

>> are you a conartist? >> i don't think so. you know? i don't think anything that i have done with regards to the movement, my work my life my identity, i mean it's all been very thoughtful and careful. sometimes decisions have been made for survival reasons or to protect people that i love. >> you know what this sparks to me? my long -- maybe not profound but to me interesting question about the influence of african-americans on white americans, over all these hundreds of years and how it has affected our culture. we're different than europeans. because i think this experience among us between us has been very powerful. and somebody is going to write something brilliant about this some day. it's not just hip hop music or jazz even or anything like that. it's what's more profound i think. >> well, yeah because african-americans are in the bedrock of this nation. >> right. >> that's why. but that's why i think rachel

dole squall though takes that to an extreme in her appearance. but, again, i keep going back to her fabrication of her own hoer her own story is what thrusts her into the national conversation. if she is just -- if she had just done everything she's done with the exception of lying about her history, with wouldn't even know her name. >> rachel dolezal's interview is coming next next with all in with chris hayes. i'm going to talk about donald trump as a presidential candidate, as well. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. all you have to do... get here while you still can. summers heating up with royal caribbean's wow sale. our biggest sale of the summer ends tomorrow. get a 50% reduced deposit. plus up to $200 onboard spending money. and up to 30% off your cruise.

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let me finish tonight with this. in the fall of 2008 in the last days of that year's presidential campaign candidate barack obama spoke in a rough african-american neighborhood in north philadelphia. i know the neighborhood well. this area has not yet gotten itself off the ground. and what was candidate obama's greatest applause line when speaking to this audience? it came when he spoke not of greater government benefits or anything of that kind. the crowd went into something near ecstasy when he spoke about the need to lead a united america. i dare never to speak for african merps, but one thing that i've discovered is the longing by this community to be accepted as full americans. 100% americans, not separate but

equal, but as much all american as others. lebron james, for example, being as much recognized as an all-american type as tom brady. it's this entire to be seen at 100% american not 80% or in some other category. the deal like barack obama seemed to answer which is the reason why i have found despicable the attempts by some knowing it's not true that our president is some african-american trying to pretend he's one of us some foul malignantsy offering himself up a as all-american. why do i find it despicable? that barack obama's americanness cuts to the very heart of what this country has promised african-americans and some still find too hard to deliver. a full embrace as not just equal, but fellow citizens embraced as come patriots. today, the man who pushed that that the president is not a legitimate claim in his office offered himself up as a

presidential candidate. donald trump now presents himself for us to consider as his successor. i can only say this. having been taught to hate the sin and not the sirn you must therefore, taking seriously mr. trump's short-term commitment to this contest await the sinner's repent repentance. that's hardball for now. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> they don't know me. they really don't know what i've actually walked through and how hard it is. >> rachel dolezal breaks her silence and our own melissa harris-perry asks the questions everyone wants to know. >> are you black? do you consider yourself a con conartist? plus donald trump rides his own golden