i am better i look healthier, feel healthier, think healthier, more energy. not because of any cosmetic reason. but because you can't have self-esteem if you don't really take care of yourself and your health. and the reflection of it by what you take in measures your self-esteem. that you for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. >> the term bust-up, let's play "hardball." ♪ ♪ >> good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. but the big action politically tonight is still centered in new york where domd trump has dropped a high mega ton bomb on the republican party's 2016 chances. the fall-out potential is frightening. what if this loud new york

voice is able to trump, and he's got the name for it, the lesser figures in the clown car? what if this rich real estate tycoon outspends and outdraws his middle and lightweight opponents? what if he gets into the debate and comes out the champ? what then for the natural order and the theory that the whole republican 16th scenario for one of the winnable candidates to demolish the clown car? what if the driver of that vehicle ends up beating them? howard dean, presidential candidate. >> april ryan white house correspondent and john ferry is a republican strategist. >> trump has made it clear he'll fight anyone. >> you don't take criticism all that well. you lash back. >> i lash back yeah. why wouldn't i lash back? >> when i watch a george will or a charles krauthammer, i watched them for years.

they're just losers. "the daily news" put this picture, clown runs for president. >> "the daily news" is going to be out of business pretty soon. >> so you're going to slash and burn. >> all of my life thaur all talk, they're no action. if we have another politician, that includes hillary, this country is going down. >> it comes down to salesmanshipsalesmanship salesmanship, this guy's got it. working class republicans are going to say, the rest of these guys are pencil neck individuals, this guy's a real street guy. >> but he fires people on tv. >> he'll hire them first. >> he's known for saying "you're fired." he's a smart savvy, street guy. he's come back from the brink. he's filed bankruptcy, but that name trump is something that banks still invest in. >> people want to live in his buildings. >> and gucci is in one of his

buildings as well. >> and that's important to you personally? [ laughter ] governor dean, i'm just thinking about this boring republican line-up, jeb bush is nark leaptic at times. there's nothing coming out of him that's exciting. and scott walker give me a break. give me a little life there. and rubio, we'll talk about him later. he's the shooting star, but nobody knows what he looks like in a police line-up. they're looking for anybody they don't know, because the ones boring. trump ain't. your thoughts. >> like yours. first of all i'll dust off my guccis. the problem is this guy is a magnet for -- >> have you read all the books behind you, or is that just for show? >> most of them i have. i haven't looked at them since college, i have to admit. so -- anyway so the thing about this is this is a great media story.

and he's incredibly quotable. and he's going to get some votes, because a lot of people on both sides of the aisle are angry and they like somebody who's going to stir things up. he's going to stir things up. i think that could disrupt the field. don't forget during the show in 2012 donald trump led the polls for a couple of weeks in terms of who the republicans wanted for president. so a lot of stuff could happen. it's probably not too good for the republican party. >> i don't think so either. i think there's going to be a displacement factor. bad money drives good money out of circulation, remember that? i think his focus on the anger you mentioned, and the ugly aspect of all politics, anger, right out of the gate he target hatred of hispanic immigrants. he blasts away ethnically. here he goes. >> i would build a great wall, and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me and i'll build them very inexpensively.

i'll build a great great wall on our southern border and i will have mexico pay for that wall. mark my words. >> mexico is living off the united states. >> so you'd strangle them economically unless they pay for the wall? >> they will pay for the wall and mexico will start behaving. >> or you'll break them economically. >> i would do something they will not be thrilled. >> we're like a dumping ground. we have drug dealers coming across killers, murderers. you think they're going to send us? it's common sense. you think they're going to send us their best people, their finest people? >> so you're sitting in the us ho of jeb bush and your wife your spouse for life is mexican. and you're listening to this garbage. why don't you respond to this? >> if you're jeb bush, the more you respond to someone like donald trump, the --

>> so you don't get into a paying matchpea peeing match with a skunk. mike dukakis believed that. don't fight back. >> donald trump is a problem for the people at the bottom of the pack. >> but he's not aiming at those people. >> i know he's not. but if he gets on the debate stage -- [ all speak at once ] >> again, back to nixon, the old strategy pat buchanan nixon aim up when you attack. he'll attack bush. >> let me say something. >> here's the really big, big problem for the republicans. the republicans are trying to undo the brand they've had for the last lord knows how many elections, they don't lake hispanics, gays they don't like women. they're trying to undo that brand, they're working hard at it and all of a sudden this guy

comes along and says stuff about latinos. this is the republican brand, whether it's fair or not, that's the republican brand. i don't see how anybody in the republican party with the possible exception of jeb bush, can survive what this guy's going to do with the republican party. it's not about the peeing match with a skunk. it's don't get into a wrestling match with a pig, because you both get dirty and the pig likes it. >> where are you at on this one? >> i think the pig stinks. i talked to omarosa who used to be on his show and worked at the white house. >> did she get fired? >> she got fired. >> i remember that. >> of course. >> okay, governor dean. she said to me one thing that gets donald trump in trouble is the fact that he doesn't see color, but he sees party affiliation. and i have a problem with that.

>> what's that mean? >> meaning it's not about race. >> you mean he's pandering? >> i think so. >> playing to the worst instincts of the voter. >> of the party. she knows this man. it's not good. it's divisive. the last time i saw donald trump at the correspondents association dinner. he made a point, he ran right after susan rice the national security adviser and talked to her smiles and valerie jarrett. so he doesn't know what he wants to do. he wants to create a name and throw everything out there to build up his brand. >> he's all over the place. he's not consistent philosophically. he's a money-pabeger. although sometimes he loses money. ultimately he'll collapse on his own rhetoric. >> you remember ross perot? this guy gets into a debate. i bet he comes out third or fourth. >> jeb bush had a wonderful

thing with jimmy fallon last night. >> you think that was good for bush last night? >> i think it was wonderful. >> and nobody's talking about it. they're talking about donald trump. >> anyway trump has made jeb bush number one enemy in the republican field, number one target. he's going after the big guy. here he is. >> bush is totally in favor of common core. i don't see how he can possibly get the nomination. he's weak on immigration, he's in favor of common core. how the hell can you vote for this guy? you just can't do it. >> i watched jeb bush yesterday. he can't even put on a tie in jacket. he's running for president. >> that's what they do. >> that's an opportunist. going after the fact that he was casual. here's how jeb is trying to respond to this spectacle. >> donald trump took you on in a speech about common core and

immigration immigration. [ laughter ] >> sorry, i shouldn't have done that. >> there are a lot of people running for president of the united states. last time i checked, another guy showed up. i haven't checked this morning, but i'm sure there's somebody else running. >> governor i think he's going to be a big show in the debate because the other guys are born boring. but the problem with jeb bush should be the front-runner, thinks he'll be the front-runner, he's fwot to decide whether to take this gi on or not. what would you do? play dukeakis and pretend he'll go away? >> i'd get somebody else to take him on. you debase yourself if you get into a debate with this guy. this is the problem. bush goes on has a good show with jimmy fallon. nobody cares about it because they're looking at this incredible spectacles. the spectacles wear out, but the press is going to have so much

fun with this and god help the republican party if he gets into the one of the top tier debates. >> every time i get interest a situation in traffic where i'm mad at them or they're mad at me, i count to ten and go do i want to see this guy again? no. so i put my head down i don't look in the rearview mirror. i'd rather to go to work than have a street fight with this guy. i don't know if you can keep that up against trump. he'll be blowing his horn, yelling out the window at you and you got to completely ignore it. >> yeah, you got to let it go. if you're below the ten line, you're not getting in the debates. >> what happens if a woman, the only woman in this field, carly feareena ends up 11 or 12? >> it's sad, she's not there. >> and mr. donald trump owns the show. >> he may own the show. yesterday he knocked me off his

chair. i didn't think he was going to run because he's talked so much about it. he's going to be strategic and get a prep team. >> it's going to be good. here's perry being pressed by fox's bill hammer on trump's great wall of mexico. >> what do you think about that idea? get mexico to pay for a wall? >> i'll suggest that what mr. trump was talking about makes for some pretty good tv maybe. americans don't want rhetoric. they want action. >> take on the issue about the wall, and get mexico to pay for it. is he right on that or not? >> i'll let him run on that. i'll run on actual experience on this. >> carly fiorina is praising trump. let's watch her. >> i think donald trump, who shouldn't be underestimated by the way, but i think he's hitting on issues that americans

care about. americans clearly believe the economy isn't growing quickly enough. not enough of them are employed in jobs they like. they're worried and afraid of what's going on in the world. not just isis but other issues as well. they realize that china has turned into an adversary. they're concerned about border security. these are, i think, real issues. >> do you know how the republicans, your party, always likes to talk about a wall. this guy says i want the whole 2,000 miles i want them to pay for it. it's a bidding wall. i've seen ugly walls, like the one in israel against the palestinian territories. if may be ugly but it's useful. it's not going to make us proud to see the wall go up. if we had to get a job and the only place to get a job was on the other side of that wall we'd get over that wall. so i don't understand why they keep talking about a wall. if he's against illegal hiring say so. but he never will. most guys like him in construction and other trades,

make a lot of money off illegal labor. everybody does in this country. construction, landscape, tons of money are made off cheap labor. illegal labor. >> peace walls in northern ireland and belfast. >> ugly too. >> we need comprehensive immigration reform. >> why doesn't he want it? >> he's speaking to the base -- >> and doing so in a way that doesn't offend business. because business doesn't care about walls. they don't care about walls, as long as they get the cheap labor. thank you for joining us. coming up police in new york are expanding the search area for those two convicted killers who broke out of prison. the big question now, 12 days into the manhunt is what the searchers can do when the trail goes cold? what if they used a high-speed avenue? in other words they got away.

plus, new polls point to trouble for hillary clinton, she's facing stiff competition from republicans in swing states. in new hampshire, she's getting a scare, sort of from bernie sanders. and then the shootings start. why marco rubio is the stephen curry -- well, steph curry of the republican party. fanelinally, pope francis. this is "hardball," a place for politics. put your hand over your heart. is it beating? good! then my nutrition heart health mix is for you. it's a wholesome blend of peanuts, pecans and other delicious nuts specially mixed for people with hearts. planters. nutrition starts with nut.

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>> we're talking about two men who have been very elusive. they came up with a very elab rorate and creative plan to escape from up with of the most secure facilities in new york state, if not in the united states. >> there is no hard evidence that they are outside the area. that being said i cannot rule that out. but we're going under the -- what i think is the logical belief, they can be anywhere. >> they can be anywhere. welcome back to "hardball." they can be anywhere. that was the stark conclusion from investigators hunting for the two convicted killers. police are into their 12th day now, searching for richard matt and david sweat. they escaped from a prison in upstate new york and authorities have no solid leads. investigators have shifted their search to other areas though

they wouldn't say where or why. 1,300 leads have flooded into the authorities and 600 law enforcement people are involved but used to be 800. so it is getting colder. but so far, it's as if they've disappeared from the face of the earth. adam reese is outside the prison in dannemora. pat brown is here with me criminal profiler. adap adam adam, what's the latest? they were confident these killers are somewhere in the wooded area. are they not anymore? >> reporter: no, they could be anywhere. they're expanding the perimeter now, outside the 16-mile zone. they're redeploying their resources. behind me, this was a very secure zone, many checkpoints, now they're shifting focus, looking at trains ferries highways, any way to get out of here really fast.

they have 1,400 tips, as you mentioned, 600 searchers, but still not that one solid lead to hang their hat on. >> do they know whether any trains passed through that area during the night before the authorities were alerted to the escape? >> reporter: a big concern is, did they get out early on? before the full search began. so thaur going to look at photos. maybe there are photos on the highway or the ferry or maybe the train, that would give them some sense of where they're headed. >> what about the idea of the intellectual background, the perhaps months if not years of planning of this? i have been getting intimations it was a highly sophisticated plan. it wasn't just charm some woman who works in the tailor shop and get her to give me some tools. there was something more to it. what do we know about the sophisticated of their escape? >> we know they're wiley.

they're very smart. they took their time. we know how they planned and cut through the walls. some have suggested there's a plan b, and plan c, maybe people that helped on the outside and still people on the inside. they're still talking to corrections officers inmates, they're going down every single avenue chris. >> listen, stay on for a moment. listen to pat brown, your thinking. what does your hunch tell you about this? >> that they are smart. they're not survivalists. that's one thing they said early on they're not into survivalism. chances are, they're not going to think, let's go hide in the woods while they're looking for us for two weeks. they want to get away. and they're smart enough to go through all this escape and do it so well my belief is probably they were out of there pretty darn quickly. they had phones and access to contacting people. my guess is they set something

up and they're somewhere else. >> the original clue, that woman joyce mitchell said, she was supposed to be the get-away car. therefore, if she didn't show up, if she chickened out, they would be stuck there and they could only walk away in desperation. you're arguing it was more sophisticated. >> first of all, why are we believing joyce mitchell? >> there you go. >> anybody who talks to her, they're going to conduct hopefully a good interrogation, but they'll have to figure out what's true and what's not true. she may have sent them in the wrong direction on purpose. so just to say she was going to pick them up, really? how do we know that? i think we have to take that with a grain of salt and think there might have been some other plan of ak.ction. >> if you're in prison for a couple of years, you know which trains go by. you can hear them and see roughly what speed they're going at, whether they can jump aboard or not. whatever's going on. >> i'm assuming it's somebody on the outside looking at viable options. because if you only have so much

time to work with, and they knew that, these are not stupid guys. they're pretty smart guys. so they're going to find some way to make sure that they have a methodology to get out and get out quickly. since they haven't found them in the area chances are they did. >> on the question of criminals, killers, cold-bldooded. no one's been reported missing nope's sold them food or anything. there's been no evidence of their existence outside the prison. which means they got somebody to feed them or give them a ride and kill them or they were incahoots with them. >> investigators look at two things. were there any cars stolen or carjackings? any break-ins? apparently not. so if they haven't found them in this area, the 16-mile perimeter, they're gone. >> thanks so much adam in dannemora.

i love that name. pat, we'll have you back next week. up next the great tom brokaw, his book's a story of charm and certainly courage. this is "hardball," a place for politics. ♪ those who have served our nation have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it m politics. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. across america, people are taking charge of their type 2 diabetes... ...with non-insulin victoza. for a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar but it didn't get me to my goal. so i asked my doctor about victoza. he said victoza works differently than pills and comes in a pen. victoza is proven to lower blood sugar and a1c. it's taken once a day, any time. and the needle is thin. victoza is not for weight loss

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we're back to "hardball." he was a kid from south dakota who covered the end of the nixon nightmare and the fall of the berlin wall. >> it is overcast and raining in washington as president and mrs. nixon prepare to leave the white house for the last time as the first family. >> we have a remarkable development at the brandenburg gate. >> he interviewed the great nelson mandela. >> i know you've not been out of prison for very long but have you been able to block the worst memories of those years from your life or do you live with them every day? >> no, it's difficult to do so. >> well he offered a reassuring voice the morning after the nation was hit on 9/11.

let's watch that. >> so far manhattan has been changed. there's been a declaration of war by terrorists on the united states. >> and now he brings us a book about his own personal battle which interrupted what he calls his lucky life. joining me now is tom brokaw the author of "a lucky life interrupted." and the book has so much charm and a lot of guts in it. i have to go back to the berlin wall, because i was there five or six days later. you were there. this thing about being a great journalist, it's showing up it's being there. and you're there when the lightning strikes. can you just describe it when you got the word that the bureaucrats of east germany had just said something very casual like, we're letting people out? >> well, i was stunned by that. i had gone because east germany was in some turmoil. not much going on here. our editor said, why don't you go to berlin. that's a pretty good story.

we had no idea that the wall was going to come down around us and there was that announcement by a bureaucrat who had misinterpreted what the politburo had in mind. as i stood there, i realized how symbolically and physically important that the wall was down it was the final nail in the coffin of communist soviet union. >> you're a poignant story teller. you were asked to visit a young kid, a u.s. soldier, his leg was about to be amputated. and you went in there and had to buck him up and tell what you said. >> what happened is, i had been out hunting in south dakota with my friend bob kerry who lost a leg below the knee in vietnam as you know. and i was going to walter reed a lot. i went to the orthopedic ward

and the doctor said i just removed a young man's leg. he's heavily sedated, but he insists on saying something to you and he won't talk to me again if you don't go in there. the young man from texas, he was heavily sedated, i grabbed his hand and i said i was just with a friend of mine who lost a leg beneath the knee hunting in south dakota. and he ran through the fields and over the fence, i couldn't keep up with him. there is life after losing your leg and i want to thank you for your sacrifice and your service. he squeezed my hand back and i stumble out really and the doctor said, i'd like you to go from room to room because that's the story you want to tell. i came back and called bob and, said you got me through the long day. and he said, you talked about my hunting? >> that was the story, the medal of honor winner couldn't hit the barn door with a canoe paddle.

you took president obama and democrats to task for the roll out of obamacare. especially the original promise, everyone will be able to keep their doctor. but you called out the republicans for not offering anything of their own. making it a political football punting at every opportunity. now we have this whole question this summer with the supreme court ruling on aca, how do you feel being involved in this system, a cancer victim, if you will you've been through it seen other people in situations with no money, no connections, just regular, everyday people as hillary calls them. what have you learned through this experience? . i do think that we need to reform health care in this country. especially for the people who are at the bottom of the ladder if you will. i thought it was important at the beginning of this process for the president to ramp up along the way and begin with those who doesn't have coverage. because it's a very complex plan. and people were very tied into the medical establishment that they have in this country. they like their doctor. they like the hospital. a lot of them the health care

plans, they weren't perfect, but they were theirs. then we had a 2,800-page document that became a political football. it works well in some areas, but there's a lot of confusion. and republicans say to me, a big part of the burden is on the republican party because they haven't come up with anything. it will only stay there or get larger. because of the cost of producing all these new medical miracles that we are producing in pharmaceutical laboratories and in the operating room. so there is no more important part of the future of this country. it's a big idea that needs to be engaged. and what i've been saying about american politics now, the only big idea is to go small, and i think that's wrong. >> well, people like you, tom brokaw. i want to ask you a personal

question. bob casey once told his son, in the end, celebrity disappears and what's there left, your family, your god, and your health insurance. that's where you are. you've been there. what have you learned that we should all know because you've been there? >> well what you talk about, first of all, your family counts most of all. i couldn't have gone through this without my wife and my daughter who's a doctor and my other two daughters and all my grandchildren. there are some of them now. they were critically important to me. they bucked me up at the right time. there was no self-pity going on at our household as you might expect. not nurse ratchet, but she's say, you're not going to go there. and my daughter the doctor would give me the latest notes she'd compiled on the disease. my middle daughter in the music business would keep me apprised of what's happening there, and my youngest daughter had our first boy. she's had three daughters and four granddaughters and suddenly we had a boy in the family.

she said dad, i know it seemed like a terrible year but we had archer. that gave me a lift. you start with that, and at the end of your life however famous or successful you are, if you don't have that core nothing else counts. >> as they used to say the intellectuals always say, a good little book, and it really is a good little book. a lucky life interrupted. this is an odd thing to say, but it's almost like beach reading. it's got a fine quality to it, a lot of charm, and great stories that aren't related to being sick. thanks for being on. >> i've been gratified by hearing from cancer families saying we needed to hear that story and people without cancer in their family they need to hear it so they can deal with it as it comes to them. so it accomplishes what i set out to do share my experience with everyone else. >> it's very affordable. i checked the price. >> thank you. up, in how worried should

hillary clinton be about the new poll showing her in tight races in battleground states? they are very tight. and later is marco rubio the steph curry of the republican field? i think he is. he's a shooting star. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. song: rachel platten "fight song" ♪ two million, four hundred thirty-four thousand three hundred eleven people in this city. and only one me. ♪ i'll take those odds. ♪ be unstoppable. the all-new 2015 ford edge. i like my seafood like i like my vacations: tropical. and during red lobster's island escape, three new dishes take me straight to the islands. like the ultimate island

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>> here's what's happening. joyce mitchell's husband lyle was questioned by authorities earlier, his wife is rge chaed with helping two inmates escape from prison. a new york city man who planned to join isis is under arrest after tieing to stab an fbi agent. officers were searching his home as part of an ongoing terrorism probe. a 10-year-old boy was bitten boy a shark this afternoon in daytona beach, florida, the

second attack in a week in the county. back to "hardball." >> well i may not be the youngest candidate in this race but i will be the youngest woman president in the history of the united states. [ applause ] >> welcome back to "hardball." hillary clinton could make history if she makes it to the white house, but she has to get past a republican opponent before she makes it back to 1600 pennsylvania avenue. a new round of swing state polls show several potential gop rivals could give her a run for her money. in florida, she leads marco rubio by three. and jeb bush, by four. but in the battleground state of ohio hillary trails john kasich by seven ties rand paul and leads jeb by a point. in pennsylvania hillary trails

both rand paul and marco rubio by a point and leads chris christie by two, still. and for more on what these swing state polls mean for hillary clinton, let's bring in the roundtable. howard fineman, lauren victoria burke, and david corn. david, you first. let me ask you, why are these so damn close? it's always around 50/50. >> because i think any republican running against hillary clinton starts with 45%. it doesn't matter. the interesting thing about the pennsylvania number particularly is the candidate that pennsylvania knows best out of those three, rand paul marco rubio, and chris christie, is chris christie. he's next door and he does the worst. so that indicates to me as rand paul and marco rubio are more like generic republicans running in a lot of these polls. they haven't been under a lot of attack ads. so they're the high-water point. you spend a year with opposition research in attack ads against

them, they may not look as good, but it's going to be close in every state. >> pennsylvania is the closest to the george washington bridge as well. they do know what's going on. they've seen the cones. [ laughter ] >> and they know chris christie really well. >> okay lauren new kid on the block, what do you think about why how much health care is celebrated, and may be the most important woman in american history by the time the cycle is over, that she still has to face the 50/50 battle. >> because her negatives are so high. but 509 days before election day, i don't know that the numbers mean anything other than name recognition. [ all speak at once ] >> i know you're right, but it is a -- >> and it does matter. >> it does matter but when we look at the polls, christie was the big flavor of the month before. >> i happen to have an answer here. >> okay, what is it? >> i think most people have made

up their mind about hillary clinton. i would say 80 to 90% of people. they've made it about gender and age and about ideology but those are internal decisions. >> when we get on the debate stage and you got 14 republicans there, and they go after each other, they'll make a decision about those guys. as well. [ all speak at once ] >> trump is going to make it entertaining and crazy, and they will make a decision about those candidates. >> she made the point that the polls don't mean anything. i say they do. >> i think what they say, the geology, the landscape, we have a country divided pretty much right down the middle. it's almost like a parliamentary system, where you have the brand name for the republicans and the brand name for the democrats and everybody's stuck. now in hillary's case you're right that she's -- 90% of the people have decided. that's one reason why john peddesta told me the other week that they have to focus on young

millenials. not even the older millenials the younger millenials who don't know and haven't made up their mind. >> they haven't lived with the clintons for the last 20 years like we have. >> they don't know about the baggage, and the appeal to making history with a woman as president. >> is that important to younger women versus older women? the history-making potential. >> i think it matters. women went for romney pretty well too. not to say -- i think there's a history factor there. she gets a bigger block of women, she'll do really well. the other thing about the swing polls, every one of those states has a candidate in it. kasich rubio. that's got to matter. pennsylvania went democratic the last six races. so if you have rubio in kasich in the poll -- >> the selection is going to be hand to hand combat voter by

voter, precinct by precinct, using all the big data to pluck individual voters. because it's so close. and it's not just state by state. it's -- >> that explains why hillary clinton and i respect -- excuse me, this is something you care about -- has been so careful not to either endorse or trash the trade deal. she's somewhere out there. >> right. >> because she doesn't want to alienate labor, which she needs the teacher, the federal workers, the state workers and labor, but yet she's obviously not happy with opposing a trade bill which she was for. >> she can't fard to lose any big block of voter at this point in time. by the time the election comes around, the trade deal will be pretty far in the past and there will be four or five other things between now and then that will determine how people vote. but remember, with marco rubio and rand paul a lot of these other guys, and carly fiorina, we haven't seen them really perform on the national stage.

there's a lot more potential for them to go south as a candidate than there is for hillary clinton. she can make her mistakes. >> you make my point. the chance where something was kept secret from us, it's very hard to imagine something secret about hillary clinton. >> but marco rubio had some scandals that haven't been resolved. >> what are they? >> using credit cards for personal purposes. they've gotten some attention. there's still investigations ongoing. >> what does he owe that daddy war bucks of his? >> who knows. he's had his wife on the payroll. i'm not even talking about scandals or skeletons. >> i love the way you throw the word scandals out. >> i disagree with david a little bit. nlt go ahead. >> in that i think you're right about hillary clinton, there's not much up or down side. almost everybody's decided. but i think a couple republicans, you have to say have some upside potential if they can make the sale. and i think marco rubio is the one that the hillary crowd is

most concerned about. >> he is the shooting star. >> on paper. >> i compare him to steph curry. >> he's the perfect contrast. >> the roundtable is staying with us and up next why i'm calling marco rubio the steph curry of the republican field. this is "hardball," the place for politics. if you can't put a feeling into words, why try? at 62,000 brush movements per minute philips sonicare leaves your mouth with a level of clean like you've never felt before. innovation and you. philips sonicare.

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pro-trade democrats today. there's a plan to have the house of representatives vote on the president's free-trade agenda again as early as this week. the plan would separate fast-track authority for the president from the aid for workers bill that failed last week. we'll be right back. audible safety beeping audible safety beeping audible safety beeping the nissan rogue

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infection. talk to your doctor and visit humira.com this is humira at work. i like my seafood like i like my vacations: tropical. and during red lobster's island escape, three new dishes take me straight to the islands. like the ultimate island seafood feast, with crab, lobster and jumbo shrimp. all you have to do... get here while you still can. we're back with our roundtable. if you have been watching the nba finaled, who hasn't you witnessed something that we've never seen before. the incredible outside shooting of steph curry. as he led the golden state warriors to the nba title. i never seen anything like it who has? there is someone like curry in politics today, his name is marco rubio. rubio is the steph curry of the republican field. nobody expected him to perform at the level he is acting right now. as "the washington post" points out, senator marco rubio is the

candidate trending up in the top pack. it's a trajectory he's been on since' announced his candidacy two months ago. his charisma personal story and relative youth have combined to make him the it candidate for the gop at the moment. >> charles crowdhammer recently ranked rubio as the most likely candidate to win the nomination noting that democrats fear his prospect. we just saw in today's poll that rubio is the best at any republican in the hypothetical maxup against hillary clinton in three key states. that's why marco rubio is the steph curry of the republican field right now. he merged as a shooting star. looks like he has the best shot at taking on hillary. why the hillary people you know this better than i do, why are they trem lus about this guy? is it age? >> because of his potential much because of the contrast he presents. and because of the story he has. if you feed it all into a computer, you come out with a young charismatic, hispanic from

florida and you've got the perfect contrast on paper to hillary. now he's like steph curry in the sense when he came out of davidson college, everyone said this guy can really shoot. he is tough enough for the league? it's one thing to stand out there and look -- >> look at the boards. >> and look pretty shooting the three pointers. but you've got to be able to take it under the board. >> here's a bucket of ice water. >> so you say it's all. >> narrator: paint.-- all under the paint? >> this is preseason, howard. until i see marco rubio in a debate playing at least in a play-off, let aloent championship series i think this is all -- force. >> who the s. the guy to tower over his shoulder in todd harris. what do you think?

>> i think rubio is the best speaker in the field. when you have hillary clinton around that is flat not emotional or passionate a guy like rubio really stands out. his problem he is doesn't have much of a record in the senate. he doesn't have much -- >> guess who else was like that. >> that's true. rubio blundered on the immigration thing. they need that -- they need the hispanic vote. >> i know. they're all hawks in the republican establishment. did they know they need a hispanic vote? >> they have to know that. the game that rand paul is playing, he is trying to get more minority voters. for them it's a huge win if they get a few more percentage points. >> what happens if a guy, even if he is cuban-american rather than mexican-american or puerto rican, what happens when he comes on the stage and starts speaking perfect span ish? >> jeb bush can do that, too. that's going to matter to the voters if he swings the state of florida. >> i think you're making the

point, i think you made it best about this guy's talent. greatest speaker out there right now. howard fineman, thank you. victoria burke and david michael. when we return let me finish the battle brewing again conservatives and pope frances. this is tricky business from the right. you're watching "hard ball," the place for politics. the job jugglers. the up all-nighters. and the ones who turn ideas into action. we've made our passions our life's work. we strive for the moments where we can say, "i did it!" ♪ ♪ we are entrepreneurs who started it all... with a signature. legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses, turning dreamers into business owners. and we're here to help start yours.

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if you can't put a feeling into words, why try? at 62,000 brush movements per minute philips sonicare leaves your mouth with a level of clean like you've never felt before. innovation and you. philips sonicare. my name is marcus jenkins. i'm a lineman here in oakland. day in, day out, a large part of what we do is about providing reliable power to our customers. pg&e is dedicated to the community. i love working here because this is my home. oakland is my home. this is where i'm raising my children so it's important to me

to make sure my family and friends have the power and energy that we provide. this is very personal to me. it makes me work a lot harder knowing that this is my community. together, we're building a better california. let me finish with this. it's no surprise that people hashg at most of the leader of the roman catholic church when

they share his values on the subject at hand. conservatives rarely cite the word from rome on matters ranging from war to capital punishment, thou shall not kill. we execute killers, we go to war, even the most dubious hearing no one on the right crying out at the immorality of the decisions. religion it seems is dismissed as a reference point when it gets between a conservative and his politics. as it now does on the question of climb an change and the coming call if pope frances to act on its man made causes. progressives take a different tact when the moral question posed by the church stands in the way of individual freedom as per side of by the american supreme court. here are the most common approaches to admit the church's moral teaching authority to argue in a free society government has its limits. what is inconsistent is to argue the need to protect life in the case of human reproductive decisions and to deny it when it achieves planetary scale. if it's important to save the

life of fertalized human egg, how much more important it is to protect the ability of this planet to sustain human life itself. here pope frances is perfectly consistent and his right-wing critics including presidential candidates are not. that's "hardball" for now. thank you for being us with. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. >> tonight on "all in." >> i'm running for president as a businessman that doesn't need money. >> the lone billionaire funding his own campaign heads to new hampshire. >> i don't need money to fly in. i fly in very nicely. >> tonight, why america needs donald trump's campaign. then the new republican super pac straty that would make cobert and stewart blush. >> i can not coordinate with you in any way. >> plus reports of a nationwide crime wave that doesn't really exist. >> this is part of a disturbing trend called the ferguson effect. >> and how big