alex wagner right now. breaking news this hour the man believed to be responsible for killing nine people at an historically black church has been caught. dylann was apprehended earlier today in shelbey north carolina about three and a half hours drive from charleston. at a press conference to announce the arrest nicki haley expressed the pain being felt across her state. >> we have some grieving and some pain we have to go through. you're going to see all of us try to lift these nine families up in prayer because they need us. these nine families need us the emmanuel a.m.e. church needs us the a.m.e. church family needs us, and the people of south

carolina needs to come together an be strong for what has happened. >> police believe he acted alone alone. witnesses report he asked for the pastor of the church. a relative of the pastor gave a chilling account of the shooting. >> i spoke with the -- one of the survivors, and she said that he had loaded -- reloaded five different times. and her son was trying to talk him out of doing that act of killing people. and he just said i have to do it. he said you rape our women and you're taking over our country. and you have to go. >> members of the community gathered today for a prayer

vigil honoring the victims, speaking today at the white house, president obama said he knew several members of the church personally, including the pastor. to say our thoughts and prayers are with them doesn't do enough to convey the heartache and sadness and the anger that we feel. there's something particularly heartbreaking when this happens in a place of peace. >> craig, let me start with you, what else can you tell us about how this young man was apprehended and where he is now? >> at this point we're told he's enroute back we don't know when that is going to happen. law enforcement officials say

they have done some questioning. we don't know a great deal other than the 21-year-old who was driving his hyundai elan electra, trying to get away. >> four hours north of where i stand right now in charleston. they took him in we can also tell you that in columbia south carolina the state capitol, he went to elementary middle and high school there police are currently searching, it's unclear whether it's his home or his father's home some sort of family home is being treated as a crime scene as well right now.

investigators combing through that home trying to find any piece of evidence. one law enforcement official they're trying to find out whether this is something that had been planned for weeks or months, whether this is something he decided to do spur of the moment, if you will but look ing looking at his father's house right now. he's considered to have a drug offense, and a trespassing charge as well. he went to white knoll high school. it's about two hours from here in lexington county. it's a pretty nice high school. that's all we have with regard

to him. this community reeling. charleston, just a month or two ago, the walter scott shooting that sent this community on its heels, they now once again, the citizens of charleston south carolina are scratching their heads trying to figure out why he or why us. >> there's also the beginnings of a profile that are emergeing. there's a facebook post showing him in a jacket that has two flags on them. one the flag of apartheid in south africa. >> what is now zimbabwe this massacre took place on the day after two anniversaries, one of which is the anniversary of an uprising in 1976 in which black south africans rose up against the apartheid regime the second being the anniversary of the

attempted slave rebellion. he's a co-founder of mother emmanuel a.m.e. he obtained his freedom after winning a lottery, he was unable to buy the freedom of his wife and children and planned a massive slave revolt that was supposed to involve massive numbers of slaves in charleston, killing slave owners and escaping to charleston harbor where they hoped to go to haiti haiti, which had been liberated after a revolt there, that was up to that date the largest slave rebellion in history. >> do we have any reason to believe -- those dates are interesting and certainly the history of this church dove tails with what happened today. is there any evidence on social media that this young man was aware of those dates? >> that's the question no direct link other than the fact

that he had that insignia on one would assume he understood what they were. maybe some sympathy there are musings on social media, he may have made racial comments. he has a car that has a confederate battle flag as one of three flags on the lice ernest plate of his car. there's no direct posts by him or statements by him, at least up to now that point to a direct racist ideology. these are all really interesting coincidences or they point to something in his psychology. >> when we talk about the history of this young man's clearly troubled history, i'm not sure how much of it is evidenced thus far, the trespassing charge, can you tell us anything more about the details of that? we know he was in a mall when he got that trespassing charge do you have any more information on that? >> no, and we made some calls earlier to try to get more information now. that's all we have right now, just that one trespassing

charge. it's important to know that the two charges were fairly close together as well. both of those charges within three months of each other earlier this year, again, you don't want to read too much into that, you wonder if this is someone who within the past six months really started to take a turn one of the other things investigators are going to be looking at here is whether this is someone who abilitied alone. and by that police have not said he had help with this particular massacre, they do want to find out whether he was part of some sort of underground community, whether he was part of a hate group. that is something that i can tell you that investigators have told me that they are looking at very closely. he's in shelbey, north carolina the extradition papers are being worked out. at this point we do not know precisely when he is going to be

back here in charleston. >> to the witnesses and the victims. i mean the story of him coming in to sit for an hour before killing nine people some of whom were 75. i believe one of them was 87 years old, and the witnesses who were allegedly let live so they could come and tell the world this horrific story. what kind of picture is emerging from those who had firsthand knowledge of the series of events. >> those who know people in the church, it's a horrific event that a lot of people are probably still processing what happened. what i learned of this church is that it was an open and very welcoming environment, that it wouldn't have been unusual for a stranger to come in and be perfectly welcome in the church. it will be interesting to go back and talk with one of those witnesses about whether or not his behavior within the church raised any kind of arm las. this is a church that has been

very politically active the pastor was very well known. it was one of the places that he went frequently in south carolina where he and joe biden got to know this pastor who was then in his 30s, a very young guy who was in the state senate. this was a church that would have been well known in the community. i was told it's one of the many churches that pastor was one of the many people who did reach out to walter scott's family they weren't specifically known as the only church doing that there's nothing in the profile that would have made them a specific target other than they are extremely well known church. >> rich history. >> nationally, even. the a.m.e. church represents a pivotal moment in our racial history of america, and our religious history of america. >> in terms of the community in charleston, you mentioned walter scott, north charleston and charleston have seen tragedy in

the last several months i guess i wonder how are law enforcement officials responding? what are you hearing from community members? >> we see a number of vigils take place today. at least five here in and around charleston -- it's amazing, you know, people -- >> i think we're having audio problems, craig melvin down in charles 1207bton charleston we'll come back to you later. nine people are dead in what police have called a hate crime, the suspect in that shooting is now in custody. we'll have more for you after the break. audible safety beeping audible safety beeping audible safety beeping the nissan rogue

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following the arrest of dylann roof tonight people joined in prayer. people gathered inside that church, president obama called for america to mourn, but come to grips with the problem of gun violence. >> i've had to make statements like this too many times. innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. we will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries, it doesn't happen in other places with this kind of frequency. it is in our power to do something about it. >> joining me now director of

african-american study sies, and todd rutherford. representative rutherford let me go to you 23i6r9first and get your reaction as to what has happened in your town in the last 24 hours. >> it's a huge tragedy, charleston is getting used to having memorial services and vigils. something's got to change. we have to stop this it's the rhetoric that has to change. people have to understand their words mean something. for this young man, hate he gunned down a frantdiend of mine. >> mark do you think it's the rhetoric that needs to change. >> i think the rhetoric is a part of it perhaps it's time for presidential candidates to take a pledge against language of bigotry, disparagement, i

think leaders have to set a tone. and i think discourse plays a role. there are 800 hate groups documented hate groups in the united states. and that number has doubled over the last 20 years. this is not happening in isolation. it's what the president mentioned, easy access to weapons 37 it's also a conversation that takes place in a civil society. >> what happened in charleston is the place where columbine, aurora and newtown intersect with baltimore, ferguson and sanford. it's the con flunsz of gun violence and racial animouse. and i wonder if that will inform the way we process it in our

national imagination. >> the problem is that we have frustratingly little to show in either of those issues. that we have a tolerance in this country for ongoing gun violence. moments like this should inspire really serious commitment to change. but they just kind of come and go, and we find ourselves in the same situation again. the same thing can be said for these racial xi familiarics as well. i want to add one other element. i think this should be treated with the kind of seriousness we've treated other aspects of terrorism in this society. that's what this is. and so we can say it's a hate crime. in this instance a hate crime doesn't quite get to the full extent of what we're looking at here, this is someone that did something intentionally, willfully, maliciously, who may be part of another movement may or may not be part of another movement, but certainly this is

meant to have an impact far beyond what happened at the emmanuel a.m.e. church. >> july brings up a good point. it's a hate crime, should we not also be talking about it as an act of domestic terrorism? >> absolutely. the fact that we have this different language that we call acts of this hate crime, if you call this an act of terrorism, the way people respond to it would be different. it would be much more alarm, much more of an organized response. people see it as something that happened over there to people who aren't me they would see it as something that was happening to americans, to christians, to all the same kinds of people we apply the work to. >> representative rutherford, when we talk about an act of terrorism, does charleston feel like this was an act of terror? >> there's no doubt about it there's no doubt about the fact

that this is merely a hate crime. you don't hold hands and pray with people for an hour before you decide to gun them down. hate crime would be something doing something just because you don't like somebody on the sidewalk. this is vicious, this is unparalleled. it goes back to the 1963 church bombings with the four little girls. i never remember seeing anything like this. here i am as an adult standing in front of the church where nine people were gunned down it's an unbelievable act of violence. >> this comes at a moment where we have been unfortunately, but perhaps necessarily focused on the racial divide in america. whether that is the divide in the criminal justice system among police in the communities they are served with protecting. whether it's the identity that is conferred upon white people and black people in this country. do you think we are at an inflexion point? >> i think we've been at an important point for quite some

time. there have been 78 mass shootings since 1987. there's an acceleration of these events s events. you look at a combination of police violence, the 16,000 homicides that take place each year, 57% of the victims happen to be black. this is a cycle of violence that continues to perpetuate itself and there's a racial dimension and a racial element. i want to say today. leaders and it's good to see leaders in south carolina i want to see leaders across the board step up condemn this recognize that this young man, the suspect had a flag of apartheid rhodesia and south africa on his chest, which means that he was carrying out not just a random act but an act of deep philosophy. >> do you think the confederate flag should still be flown? >> i do not.

i think as a son of the south, the confederate flag is a sign not of heritage but of division and of a time that americans have to -- let's fly the american flag the stars and stripes is what i respect and love. >> you're also a son of the south, and nicki haley gave a really emotional response but for some people the fact that the state house is flying the confederate flag was a reminder of the forces at odds with one another. >> it's deeply ingrained in portions of the deep south. you talk to many white southerners they see it as divorce from history, they don't see it as meaning that. so it's very complicated to get through to them how it does mean that and how it is a continuing symbol of that era that persists to this day. both the issue of the con confederate flag and gun violence, this is political failure. the american people agree that

there needs to be more gun control. we need to get guns out of the hands, they're just too pervasive. i think it's something like 90% support that. and yet congress has failed to act. this isn't a case where we failed to change people's minds. people understand it very well. but the forces that are aligned to prevent any meaningful change from happening control the upper hand. >> there are two parallel problems, there's the issue of gun safety and gun safety reform, for which there is a legislative solution and then there is the divide among the american people that exists under the surface, which is a divide based on color, i mean today a former ole miss student pled guilty to a charge connected to a noose left on a statue on campus. the shooting of worshippers and pastors. a pastor at a black church the

leaving of nooses on statues. i mean it sounds and feels like 50, 60 years ago. >> except that it's deeply implicated in the present. these things have never ceased to exist. here's the difficult thing to think about, right? if we could isolate this to the confederate flag we would be in good condition. slavery and jim crowe and lynching those things happened under the american flag the confederacy had been advantage wished. this is something that is deeply ingrained in the country's national history, and not easily uprooted. we look at something like this horror that happen eded today, and try to say this is an isolated thing, or this is just one hateful person what we do is disrespect the legacy of people

who have suffered under these circumstances since the foundation of this country. >> state representative todd rutherford, thank you all. >> thank you, alex. coming up south carolina is home to at least 19 known hate groups, i will speak to a 16-year veteran of the fbi. time upon a once people approached problems the way same. always start at the starting. and questions the same asking. but that only resulted in improvements small. so we step a took back and problems turned these inside-up-down to approach them newly. and that's when we it saw. garbage can create energy. light can talk.

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we continue to follow the breaking news out of south carolina. dylann roof was arrested in his car three and a half hours away from the shooting. >> the department of justice has opened a hate crime investigation into the shooting ings dernt. acts like this one had no place in our country and no place in a

civilized society. now that we have someone in custody, we will be exploring all the motives that may have been in play. >> we'll look at the investigation in this shooting as a hate crime and discuss the white supremacist movement in america coming up next. boys? ♪ mamas, don't let your babies...♪ stop less. go more. the passat tdi clean diesel with up to 814 hwy miles per tank. hurry in and you can get 0% apr plus a one-thousand dollar volkswagen credit bonus on 2015 passat tdi clean diesel models. [ female announcer ] it balances you... it fills you with energy... and it gives you what you are looking for to live a more natural life. in a convenient two bar pack. this is nature valley. nature at its most delicious.

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♪ that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. it remains unknown whether dylann roof has any ties to hate groups in south carolina his jacket shows two flags, one of apartheid south africa. one of the unrecognized state of rhodesia. both flags are linked with the white supremacy movement in the u.s. and around the world. richard cohen joins me now.

>> let me start with you, in terms of the flags, i'll let you both weigh-in on this what does that tell you about this young man? >> it's what we would call a clue. it might be an indication of where he's coming from what his ideology is doesn't necessarily mean anything about the act of violence, it's something that gets factored in the totality the circumstances to try to understand why this happened? >> what -- i mean i think a lot of people are unfamiliar with the flag of rhodesia, right? and the former flag of south africa is a symbol of white supremacy, can you drill down a little deeper and give us information about the genesis of this being absorbed or co opted if you will? >> i think the flag of rhodesia is unusual to see in white supremacist circles, the glorification of south africa is certainly not, it was an era of

apartheid there, many people in the white supremist movement admire it there's been some interchange between white supremists in south africa and in this country. >> the line that he uttered as he was gunning down these nine victims, you rape our women and you are taking over our can't speaks volumes about what may have motivated this young man. >> absolutely the southern poverty loss in the mid-90s and when barack obama got elected. when the number of hate groups skyrocketed. a lot of this activity does take place john line. you think of a 21-year-old, where are they getting this ideology ideology, there's a robust dialogue. it's easy to find anywhere and

as they've said those flags are a part of the symbology of that. i can tell you in my family being on the continent, that revolution also involved removing a lot of white farmers from their land and deporting them, the lower, there's a lot of that that is tied up -- the perth of people seen us having been violent anti-white racism that regime just how rhodesia is still an object of contention among people who are white or black zimbabwe ans. >> talk to us about how white supremacist groups function in the united states. one would assume there are certain ones that exist above board and are knowledged and

tracked. >> you have to understand it has a movement so certainly the movement itself sees itself as international. white supremacy wasn't invented in the united states of america. so they see a kinship with white people everywhere that's why these foreign elements are essential to what they're doing. the criminal element is similar from the above ground groups like the klan ariane nation. what i found when we were working those undercover cases, there was an intentional separation. both because a lot of the groups didn't agree with the violence. >> there are some that disagree with violence. >> tactic. they would talk about it it's not appropriate at this time or something like that even where they did agree, somebody should be doing the violence they didn't want to be involved in it, because there was risk.

>> how do they recruit? >> all kinds of way ss. the internet is a means of communication we can all use. back in the '90s, before the internet was big, we were on mailing lists, they would do leaflet, once you are in the network, there were phone numbers you could call that would go to answering machines that had messages on them on what to do next or where to go next or where the next meeting was. it was a sub culture that existed. in many ways didn't want to be a part of the normal culture, and wanted to be separate. there was a violent criminal element that was engaged in all kinds of different criminal active. >> this is an industry that there are tears, there's organization. talk to us about where we are right now, where the landscape is right now in terms of groups mushrooming up in this

particular moment and what we've seen in the last 6 to 8 years. >> well you know it's interesting, we've seen a real increase in the number of white supremist groups in the last 15 years, a little falling off in the last couple years as people have been leaving organized group and retreating to the anonymity of the net. the level of violence has not decreased and the level of overall activity has not. you look at something like storm front, a neo-nazi portal one of the leading websites on the net, it has 300,000 registered users and millions of visitors. it's increased by 60% over the past five and six years. the level of violence is high but it's more dispersed and less organized than it has been in prior years. >> thank you all for your time.

>> thank you. coming up south carolina congressman mark sanford will discussion how the charleston community is grappling with tragedy. thanks to the tools and help at experian.com, i know i have a 798 fico score. [score alert text sound] [score alert text sound] oh. that's the sound of my interest rate going down. according to this score alert, my fico score just went up to 816. 816. 816! 816! fico scores are used in 90% of credit decisions. so get your credit swagger on. go to experian.com become a member of experian credit tracker and take charge of your score. when a moment spontaneously turns romantic why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use, is the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex.

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name. local authorities have now identified all nine victims at the church. six women, flee men. the ages of the victims ranged from 26 to 87 years old. this afternoon, not long after the arrest of dylann roof a large vigil was held in a charleston church. joining me now is the former governor of south carolina. congressman sanford, thanks for joining me. what were your first thoughts about what had happened? >> one of shot and disbelief.

i'm standing in the epicenter of activity. it's the last thing in the world you would have expected to happen at that church and in this community. >> the president today said it would be wrong for us not to acknowledge the problem of gun violence in this country. and i guess do you agree with that, and is there more we can do to prevent this kind of violence? >> i think it's premature. i think advocates will use this to make their case. i think that where we're right now, is at a time for mourning. i mean these families lives have been shattered there is a remarkable degree of solidarity

if you will. i spoke with joe darby a few moments ago. i spoke to him with a number of other leaders, white and black alike here in the community. what folks are focused on right now, the incredible harm that's been done to the families. >> i think we just lost congressman sanford's audio. we'll have more from south carolina coming up. today her doctor has her on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen.

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wednesday's killing of nine church goers was the worst shooting in history. it's the only incident at a church that's faced oppression for centuries. in 1816 morris brown a free black man returned from the north to his hometown of charleston to found a church where slaves and free blacks

could pray together. within two years, more than 4,000 blacks left their churches in favor of a.m.e. brown and other minister ss were jailed for gathering slaves and free blacks without white supervision. denmark visi tried to organize a slave rebellion in charleston. 313 were gathered and 35 were murdered. all black churches in south carolina were outlawed. worshippers met in secret until the end of the civil war. the church building stands today was built in 1891. booker t. washington spoke there in 1909 to a large audience of blacks and whites.

in 1962 the year before his dream speech martin luther king, jr. called on the church to make the american dream a reality. after her husband's murder coretta scott king led a march. the march started at imanemmanuel church. coming up we'll discuss america's long history of attacks at the center of the church. put your hand over your heart. is it beating? good! then my nutrition heart health mix is for you. it's a wholesome blend of peanuts,

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other food i'd feed my pets. each ingredient is tested by our own quality insurance people. i see all the quality data everything that i need to know that it's good for my dog. there's a standard. and then there's a purina standard. i make it and i feed my dog beneful. i feel proud because i know that i helped make that bag of dog food sitting on that shelf. this is a church that was burned to the ground because its worshippers worked to end slavery. when there were laws banning all black church gathering, they conducted services in secret. when there was a nonviolent movement to bring our can't closer in line with our highest ideals. some of our politest leaders spoke and led marches from this church's steps.

>>. >> that was president obama earlier today addressing the deep historical link between the african-american church. >> tell us and for those of us who aren't familiar what role mother emmanuel played in the life of charleston. >> mother emmanuel played a role not only in south carolina but the united states. worshipped underground for 30 clears and in 1865 it's considered to be the mother church of our nation in the south. >> ame represents an important sort of concept for americans in

this country. tell americans more about your understanding of it? >>. >> it's a denomination that was born out of the strug emfor -- in 1794 mother bethel church in philadelphia was born and that's the very first church. the building is the longest owned piece of property by african-americans in this country. as a former trustee of this church church, i spoke with my pastor and he is heart broken he's known all the clergy well. they're very close knit and it remains a haven for the discussion of black life black struggle and it an infringement

on sanctuary. >> it's a locusts of black civic engagement. >> that's one of the reasons that black churches have been targeted. to attack that is to make african-americans feel unsafe it was a strategic move of the klan to do that there is a source of activism of civil rights struggle of leadership training, it was really attacking the black community at its very core. >> tell us a little bit about the work of pastor pigney. no one better embodies the importance of the black church in fostering political engagement than pastor pigney himself. >> yeah he's in a line of great tradition when it comes to

clergy clergy. he was a state senator. he co sponsored language that led to body cameras recently. he will be an incalculable loss right now. >> in the anti-bell um era, mostly slaves there was a huge community of free people of color and in many ways charleston charleston was a huge landscape. >> it's one of the southern jules. i mean savannah it's sister city, go to either one of those locations and you see the beauty of the south, and where --

unfortunately today, we saw, of course, the remaining ugliness that persists. you have to understand while traditions and -- can be either good or bad, we have a lot of good that can come out of this people will be aware of the amount of terrorism that still lies underneath the -- right next door. when it comes to looking at what charleston's legacy has been. i don't think that one shooting should be allowed to affect how we view the continuous struggle for this. >> it reminds us of our troubled history when it comes to religion and faith and worship and race. >> absolute lyly.

>> i think it should remind us of how far we've come. you look at the 16th street bombings, this is a totally different set of circumstances now. that was an engaged act of ongoing terror by mainstream groups where white leaders felt they could stand up in the aftermath. we live in a very different time now, this can serve as a reminder of how far we've come and that's very important so that the terror doesn't have its effect. a lot has changed we have a long way to go. >> what is your message to the flock in this moment of crisis. >> maintain the faith to work on that journey, because we have come a long way we had a prayer service today with about 900 in attendance. this is still charleston the

civil war is not over. we have a ways to go. >> the struggle goes on right? >> people need to understand that there's no real sanctuary for black folks in america. not even in the churches at the same time folks can't be in a position where they're feeling unsafe everywhere they go, people need to stay resilient, focused and they need to stay prayerful. >> reverend eric bates, and jaleel smith, thank you all for your time. that is it for now, "the ed show" is coming up next. good evening, americans, welcome to the ed show we start tonight with continuing coverage of the massacre in charleston, south carolina it's been a long

day of grief and developments the suspected gunmen who killed 9 people at a historic black church in charleston south carolina is in police custody. dylann roof was arrested earlier today. he was roughly 245 miles north of charleston. he was cooperative during the traffic stop they believe he acted on his own. roof has already made his first appearance in court. dylann was previously arrested in south carolina on drug and trespassing charges. nicki haley reacted to the shooting. >> we woke up today and the heart and soul of south carolina