of these young people behind me. give it up for yourselves. [ applause ] >> as the charleston shooter is charged with nine counts of murder victims families respond with forgiveness. june 91th19th and this is now. the man suspected has been charged with nine counts of murder and could face the death penalty. 21-year-old dylann roof heard the charges before him today at a bond hearing in charleston south carolina. in addition to nine murder counts he also faces one charge of possession of a firearm during the commission of a violent crime. before setting bond the judge game victim's family members opportunity to speak. >> i would never talk to her ever again. i would never be able to hold

her again. but i forgive you. and have mercy on your soul. >> we welcome you wednesday night in our bible study with open arms. you have killed some of the most beautifulist people that i know. every fiber in my body hurt ss, and i'll never be the same. tywanza was my son. he was my hero. but as we say in bible study, we enjoyed you. but may god have mercy on you. >> bond was set at $1 million.

roof's next court experience is --. gabe, what was it like in that room today? >> reporter: hi alex. good afternoon. a little correction. i wasn't physically in the room. i was in the immediate overflow room. initially we thought some reporters would be allowed in. but so many victim's family members showed up the room was simply too packed. so while there was a pool camera situation where one outlet was able to beam it out, the rest of the media were in another room. however you could still feel the emotion. because as you played that sound bite victims families got up and went face to face through video conference with the accused killer. and it was very unusual for a bond hearing. usually considered a formality

for the families to go before the judge and before the court and give such statements this early on. the judge himself made a statement at the beginning. we have some news and some details that came out of this massacre that are detailed in the arrest warrants that just came out in court. the head line from it is that we do have new information that defendant dylann roof according to the warrant, stood over a witness and uttered a racially inflammatory statement to the witness during the occurrence of this event according to the warrant. that means that investigators say that roof used a racial slur while he was committing this act. according to the warrant .45 caliber shell casings were discovered at the crime scene and the defendant's father told investigators that his son owns a .45 caliber hg.andgun. he is charged with nine counts

of murder as well as weapons possession. his next court appearance is october and then another in february of next year. bond set at $1 million. back to you. >> thanks gabe. josh i don't think anybody was prepared for the emotional impact of that what i don't know 5 or 10 minutes in the bond hearing. and what struck me and i think struck a lot of people was how generous these victim's families were. how much they called upon their christian faith in a moment of utter devastation and were able to be generous in a way that i think most of us can't fathom. what was your reaction as you heard them speak to the man who allegedly killed their family members? >> well it was gut wrenching. and these folks we have to remember this was just a couple of days ago. they are experiencing the height of trauma right now. is they deserve to have whatever reaction they want to have. but i think there is one important thing to keep in mind. while it is important that these victim's family members are

talking about forgiveness and reconciliation, we can talk about those things as well. but we also as a country have to continue to ask hard questions. not just about this killer but about the culture that created him. what his parents told him over the years, what online forums he was in. you know was he trying to take his country back in the phrase that we've heard so often over the last numbers of years? we can't just focus on this individual. we can't so easily move on to reconciliation and talk about forgiveness without being smart enough to ask the hard questions. the victim's families should mourn and do what they need but the rest of us should ask some hard questions. >> i know you are nodding your head here as josh was speaking. how do we reconcile these, sort of twin feelings of indignation and a feeling of being violated watching a group of people be violated, their lives taken from

them? their families offered a horribly despondent future. and then the impulse to reconcile and forgive. >> i couldn't agree more. the main question is how did this happen? and the question we ask is who taught roof to hate black people? and what are the systems and processes undergirding that type of behavior that caused him to walk into a church sanctuary and take the lives of nine people? and certainly to transform the lives of a young child who played dead under her grandmother's body and a couple of other people who are left alive. the other piece we need to pay attention to is this is not an isolated incident. and as much as we'd like to frame it as that what's real is this type of violence is happening all over the country. and unless we dwrap grapple with the real questions underlying why it is happening we can

expect to see much more. >> one thing is why was this -- should this not have been considered an act of domestic terrorism? and we have news the department of domestic justice is investigating that fact. and i wonder from the legal perspective how meaningful you think that is? >> let me speak that. but beyond the legal boundaries you hit on something first here from the bond hearing, which is hearing from the victim's families which is required under south carolina law as an option at any proceeding low allows them to tell us the rest of us how they viewed this. it doesn't tell us how to adjudicate it or what will happen in the courtroom. that comes later. but on an afternoon like this to sit there and hear from them as you said their forgivenness if view that the ultimate judgment in their teachings will be delivered by god.

something that does make you step back for a minute. >> i would also wonder, you know, will there be pushback about that? it feels so overwhelmingly the national sympathy is with the victims. this is south carolina to allow them speak at any point? >> under that state law they have statutes that lets you speak at any proceeding. you can understand legally, i think we start with the morality and the legality. but legally you could understand why a defense counsel wouldn't want them speak inging at this time. this particular defendant has said he was the shooter. so as the practical matter the presumption of innocence is not about what he there and the pros and cons. we know what he says he did. so that is what we know. now to your question about the laws and was this terrorism? it is important how we label and categorize it.

because as a society that effects the priority we give it. and the law cares a great deal about intent. because there is a big difference between getting in a car accident and someone dies and we know it is a tragedy and getting behind the wheel of a car to hit someone and hurt them or using a gun. so intent matters a great deal. terrorism is defined chiefly by the idea that there is some wider political goal something that the individual is trying to achieve and to terrorize, to intimidate people i don't think the locus of the crime. beyond the scene of the crime. and to say this legally here we have what would seem to be the elements of terrorism under federal law. >> and we have -- we have the shooter himself saying his ultimate intent here was to start a race war. if that is not broader intent i don't know what actually qualifies. what's interesting is there was until this afternoon, a fairly heated debate about whether this was just hate crime or domestic terrorism. >> well sure. and i'm not sure why it was a heated debate.

certainly in this tragedy a state senator was murdered. and the intent question is a big one. i mean he sat with this bible study group for an hour before he unleashed his reign of terror. so certainly i'm not sure why it would be a question. yes it is a hate crime but certainly in any other instance where a state senator had been murdered in a church by someone who intentionally went in and sought them out. >> goals of inciting fear and strife in society. >> sure. and we know he went in and asked specifically for the pastor who was the state senator. so there was absolutely intent from the beginning to the end. so it is unclear as to the question whether it was an instance of the domestic terrorism. >> i couldn't agree more. and i think why is this so hard for us to accept? why are retrying to point in er other direction? it's not they're black, it's their religion. it's not terrorism, but some

definition of a hate crime. what is it about nine african americans being mowed down after bible study that is so difficult to analyze as terrorism and so difficult to look at the root causes? that is a question a lot of americans have to ask themselves right now. >> the governor was very adamant this morning this was hate crime. but south carolina actually has no such law. there is no hate crime law in south carolina. i think it is one of five states that don't have it. haley herself was against passing a state hate crime law earlier in her tenure in politics. >> i think that is a problem for her. i think we want to have unity in these times and we certainly have unity in condemning the evil and the murder itself. but policies do matter. and when you have the governor and chief law enforcement officer whose relevant here the police chief, both saying yeah

it is a hate crime. and that is fine for a broad statement. but that is not illegal in south carolina. it's federalism. it is up to the people of the state, as voters and office holders to decide do we want the that to be illegal i've seen people on the internet say well what does it matter he is going to get his anyway. that is the difference between individual case and policy. as the policy level you want to make sure hate crimes are illegal. why does the state not ban them? they are going to have that debate. >> thank you all for your time. after the break, does the confederate flag belong on the grounds of the south carolina state capital? that's next. ou have a business idea, we have a personalized legal solution that's right for you. with easy step-by-step guidance, we're here to help you turn your dream into a reality. start your business today with legalzoom.

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when south carolina shooter dylann roof was arrested yesterday, the car he was driving hat license plates featuring three confederate flags. the day after wednesday's shooting at the state capitol, the same flag was still flying on the grounds of the state house, where it flies today. according to state law the flag cannot be changed in anyway without a sign off from the general assembly which has been in recess since last week. the flag flying high even as charleston mourns the loss of nine black residents has many calling for its removal. when south carolina senator and 2016 republican presidential candidate lindsey graham was asked about it today, his response is just how fraught the debate remains. >> is it time to stop flying the

flag. >> to revisit that decision is fine with me. but this is part of who we are. it's a symbol of the war. and it's been used in a racist way. but the problems we have in south carolina throughout the world are not because of a movie or symbols but what's in people's heart. >> joining us is the president of demos and the executive editor of the blue nation review. jimmy, you first, as a son of the south. is there a chance that the confederate flag will end up in a museum and not flying on the grounds of a state house? >> hardly. and if it does we'll all be surprised and happy i suppose. that flag has been there on the capitol dome for years. now on a 30 foot tall flag pole in front of the capital. you can't help but not see it in columbia south carolina. flying right now in the harbor

in charleston. and castle pinckney which is a fort near fort sumter. and it should be lost on no one the name of that fort is castle pinckney named after the man who held the slaves. and the senator pinckney was a descendant of those slaves. the chances of it coming down are slim to none. governor haley has told us this is out of her power. governor beasley lost his reelection on this specific issue. i don't see it coming down. but i will say this alex. it is a symbol of hatred. i'm a white man. i'm a descendant of people who held slaves. my family fought in that war. they lost. it is time to put it in a museum and withbe done with this forever. black citizens matter in south carolina just as much as white

ones do. >> hearth,ther it is hard to understand the argument about why the flag needs to be -- he points out first of all the south lost. actually that's second of all. but it is a painful, painful reminder of a terrible chapter in american history. and yet we have shrines to the confederacy all across the nation. the streets of charleston are named after confederate generals. monuments to the defenders of charleston. what do you think that tells us in. >> i think it says a lot of things. i'm not surprised at all that it still continues to be a symbol. this country, the economic system, the political system the very constitution was founded on the belief in unequal human value and in particularly in the lack of humanity of black people, my ancestors. and the idea that that could be wiped away by even things as

powerful as the civil rights movement even things as powerful as where we stand now on the verge of the plurality nation. even things as powerful as the first african american or biracial parking light.resident. it is just a fallacy. in the mideast people are fighting over things that happened 1500 years ago as if they happened yesterday. we have to recognize how much even though we are a country that, you know, really doesn't take history very seriously. we like to think of ourselves as a constantly reinventing nation. our symbols matter. our deep seeded believes matter and that is the terrain we have to heal and create a new story for the country. of course the confederate flag which meant moment of rebellion, which meant an undying sense of independence, of masculinity, of white supremacy. if you are a white person who believes these things. in the most, you know, sort of giving you your own sense of confidence about your place in the world.

yeah that is going to be hard to give up. >> identity making. >> meaning making. of course it is going to be hard to give up. that is why it calls for leadership, multiracial leadership to say we have to tell ourselves a different story right now about who matters. >> joshua it is important to note that when you talk about the founding principles of the confederacy, the thing this flag represents. this is from the vice president of the confederacy. its foundations are laid. the cornerstone rests upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man. that slavery to the superior race is his condition. that is the confederacy. >> it doesn't get any clearer. and i hate to say it but i think people who are holding onto the confederate flag are holding on to that ideology also. they can't on the one say say everything about structural racism and history is in the

past but then desperately came to a symbol of the same history. i saw an interesting solution on twitter before coming on. if someone peacefully has a matter of civil disobedience went up to take that flag down we would probably all raise probably the biggest kick starter campaign every for his or her bail money. it is long past time for that flag to come down. all the more poignant in the aftermath of what we saw at mother emanuel ame. >> this is a poll asking americans about the flag and that total 50/50 divide. your thoughts on that. >> again i'm from the south and as a kid. my brother's name is robert edward lee williams. that should tell you everything you need to know about my family. and my brother is a wonderful person. he is not a confederate general.

he's not. i get both sides of this. but in the end -- >> help -- for those of us who don't really seem to understand. >> right. >> you are an enlightened. you are from the south. you say you understand. what is -- give us the argument for this not being a symbol of racism. >> no no no. i will never ever tell you this is not a symbol for hatred. because to black americans, are specific black southern americans, southern black americans, this is absolutely without a doubt. this is their apartheid. that flag is their apartheid flag and it is evil. it is immoral. for white southerners, they look at that -- and one of your other guests just said it is a harkening back to a time past. but again -- and i've had family that fought in that war. i got it. whatever. but i don't want to live in the past. and this is the essential being. i was told as the child that we didn't fight the civil war because of slavery. we fought it because of the

economics. all you have to do is go back and read south carolina notice of secession and all it talks about is slavery. it was a moral issue. the country passed the 18th amendment for a reason. it was immoral to enslave people. hearth just said in our founding documents, you know, the races were unequal. it took us a very long time to fix that problem on paper and it is going to take us a much longer time to fix it in reality. that is the difference here. >> jimmy williams and joshua dubois. thank you. coming up fiscal hawks get news about obamacare and how much it will cost.

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that is how much repealing the nation's healthcare law would cost over the next dekd according to a brand new record by the congressional budget office. it's cbo's first assessment since it went into effect last year. and also found the repeal would increase the number of uninsured americans by a whopping 19 million in 2016 alone. it remains to be seen whether the cbo's analysis will have any effect on republicans in congress. on wednesday the house gop revealed it's's post supreme court plan for the law. repeal by 2017. just ahead the charleston shooting has made race a big part of the presidential race. that's next.

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dominate your upcoming weekend. the pope's encycle cal on climate change is heating in the presidential race in a bad way. first republican 2016 candidates have had various reactions to the massacre in charleston. rand paul, evidence of a sickness. santorum said assault on liberty. and today jeb bush and chris kristyweighed in. >> only our display of our own love and good faith in euro heart can change. laws can't change this. >> asked if race had anything to do with the shooting jeb bush did not seem too sure. >> i don't know the background but it was an act of hatred. >> not racially motivated.

>> i don't know. looks like to me it was. but we'll find out all the information but it is clear that it was an act of raw hatred for sure. and nine people lost their lives and they were african american so you can judge what it is. >> joining the panel now jonathan alter and the communications director for emily's list, jess mc macintosh. why is this proving tricky to answer? >> couple things. first to give him the benefit of the doubt which i know is not very popular to do right now. >> no. absolutely benefit of the doubt. a lot of stories, breaking news stories the facts do change over time. and i think he was probably speaking before the arraignment, the bond hearing. he did say that to him he thought he was racial but he didn't want to get ahead of

himself. but having said that there is an unwillingness on the part of the republican candidates to see this for what it obviously is. a racial -- a racist act of violence. and they keep trying to put it in terms of an -- of -- some sort of an assault on faith because it took place in a church. which seems to be a willful misunderstanding, misreading of what we know now. and i can't explain it in any other way talking about the republicans as a whole in their response except to think that they are sensitive to the views of white south carolinian voters and whites in other states in these upcoming primaries. they don't have any african americans voting in their primaries. this is the thing you need to -- everybody knows. but i think we haven't stated explicitly enough. almost no blacks vote

republican. so they are just almost -- even in a subconscious way, they have no political interest in addressing this issue as a racist issue. >> i also think jess that racial animus is not something people like talking about. and it is also very hard to offer a solution. chris christie says laws can't change this. >> right. >> i don't know how to react to that. it's not as if i have a legislative solution to the racial divide in the country. and yet that feels wrong that we're not going to try to address this in our political system somehow. >> i appreciate jonathan trying to allow the benefit of the doubt. even before the arraignment we knew the shooter was wearing a flag of apartheid and said he was there to kill black people. so we know what was in his mind. i think republicans have a really tough time acknowledging

that racism is still very prevalent in america. and even if places where it is as obvious and horrific as this just allowing that that is a part of what motivated it might mean that they have to unpack some of their other policies. if we will allow that racism is still so veer lent in parts of america that this can happen then maybe we have to look at labor law, income inequality, who we keep from voting. maybe we have to look at access to basic healthcare in various communities. opens up a bunch of things that the republican party would rather not been exploring when they want the white house. >> i do think there are policy questions we should be asking about the divide that is further cemented by say voter

suppression laws. but heather, george pa thatky. >> what happened is not just wrong. it was hideous. and we have to stand up whenever racism antisemitism bigotry in any form rears its ugly head. >> whether what you are seeing. i think lindsay gram did a much better job just being able to answer the message. one there is an attack on christianity in this country. that is how you can see a response that this is a attack on religious liberty. two that racism against black people no longer exists and in fact black people and other people of color are the perpetrators of racism. so the idea that republicans would be able to get outside of that message box in order to respond to what is so obviously and so painfully an example of

the type of jim crow terrorism that has been the marker of racial dynamics in this country for so long. it simply can't stand. particularly not when there is an african american in the white house. because the racism that exists in this country is -- and it's actually been on the rise in terms of white americans believes, that the racism in this country is african americans perpetuating it against white people. >> i want to go to another topic that is proving fraught in this moment. pope francis encyclical on climate change. jeb bush said this week, i don't get economic policy from my bishops or my cardinals or my pope. but he does get other policy. social productive policy. reproductive. >> also a relatively new catholic con convertvert, they do

believe in a form of -- so what's toing is against the tenants of his new faith. and this is not an economic message the popedelivered. it was a moral message. saying this is about our planet our moral obligation to the earth. >> and so much of policy making especially around healthcare is couched in sort of this moral argument. okay here is a moral argument from the pontiff. but let's leave that to the scientists. >> right. no i'm not a scientist so i can't -- no. i think the pope this particular pope is going to get republicans in a lot of trouble, especially when he comes to visit. he seems willing to engage on climate change on how we handle families as we talk about immigration. he talks about what we're doing for the poor. what he does with this is really expose the real cognitive dissonance of the republican

party right now as they pick and choose which tenants of their faith they are willing to legislate on and which they feel unqualified to get into because of the aforementioned lack of being a scientist. so i'm very interesting to see how the visit plays out. i think this was just the first step in seeing how that narrative is going to effect him. i don't think it is going to go well. >> i also just think heather. the catholic church has millions of the followers. and i think there are leagueses of people who this issue has come into context. >> absolutely. i think there are a couple of things going on here. one there is this idea of what kind of shepherding do we do of this great responsibility which is god gave us this beautiful earth. and he called it it is starting to look like a pile of filth in a throw away culture. so there is this that message which has enormous resonance with many communities of faith. and then he did talked about it

in terms of economics as he has. he linked economy and climate change. he has been a pope who has not been afraid to take on global capitalism and the moral and economic and health effects of the economic system. >> pope leo in 1891 a very sfams encyclical. he talked about the living wage and mentioned labor unions and much of that message found its way into the new deal and other socially progressive legislation in the united states and in other countries in the early and middle 20th century. so this encyclical, this statement by the pope is much bigger than this presidential campaign. this is a truly historic document. and a truly important move forward for humanity. >> this is not as big a move forward for humanity jess. but there is word from the treasury department that the next $20 bill come 2020 is going

to have a woman's face on it. your reaction? >> it was the $10 bill. not the 20. which wasn't the one that comes out of the atms. one of my many gripes. it is progress. i am pleased. i do think that women should get to have one bill maybe all to themselves. maybe we don't have to share the one piece of currency we get with the guy. that said if we have to share with a guy. i'm glad it is hamilton. i like him. i just see no reason why we didn't replace andrew jackson who was an embarrassment with a woman who gets her own bill. right there. >> i think that will happen. the $10 bill is coming up first in terms of the way the treasury prints the money. i believe you are going to get both. half of the ten. and then in a few years all of the 20. >> i want an atm spitting out a bill with a woman's face on it.

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in a magazine column released today, president barack obama explains how the presidency made me a better father. it just so happens i'm fortunate enough to be surrounded by women. the people who shape me the most. and in this job they are my sanctuary. on sunday father's day, the discovery channel and oprah win fri will air rise the promise of my brother's keeper. offers an intimate look at the first black president's own

thoughts on race. >> so often these young men are seen only through the filter of stereotypes. there is the young kids wearing baggy pants or there is a young rapper. and that is part of the experience of these young men. but these young men are also scared. these young men are also vulnerable. >> joining me now is assistant to the president and chair of the my brother's keeper task force broderick johnson. thanks for joining me this friday afternoon when we are talking so much about race and inequality. this seems like one of the signature white house initiatives targeting those two very issues. how much of this is a preview into what he might do in post presidency? >> thank you very much for having me, alex. the president has been very involved in my brother's keeper really from the outset. as in the documentary he talked

about how for for so long he's been concerned about these issue. since he was a community organizer in chicago but then throughout his presidency. and i can tell you my brother's keeper aspects of the white house agenda the president has been very engaged. that is why you see his voice in the documentary. and it's inspiring. and why these issues matter so deeply to him. >> what do you see to critics who think the my brother's keeper task force focuses too much on personal responsibility and not enough on breaking down the structural barriers that exist in society? >> well it is a combination of things alex. for example a lot of the work that i lead heading the my brother's keeper task force is in fact focused on institutional change and what we can do about federal policies how we can make them more effective in addressing disparities that impact and hamper the success of boys and young men of color. at the same time the president

is very clear. and it's really interesting. a lot of these young men agree. i'd say all of them that we've talked to agree. that they have a responsibility when they have opportunities to work hard and take advantage of those opportunities. so alex it is not an either/or. it is really both opportunities being provided by government and private sector but also personal responsibility as well. >> do you feel like we're in a place where the president can have a conversation with the country that is candid as perhaps most people want him to be on the subject of race? because i know this is a subject of constant debate. david remnick in the new yorker writes about the president talking about what happened in charleston and says watching the president deliver his statement. you couldn't help but sense his submerged his emotions were. how yet again he was forced to slow down his own speech. careful to utter a phrase that god forbid was lead him to lose eke

anymorety. >> you see that on the documentary. the discussion, the comments they are very deliberate. the president thinks about these issues very very carefully and wants to make sure that people understand that what he is saying is from the heart. i think it is the same thing that's reflected in iz comments about charleston and other places. >> let me get your thoughts on that broderick. we've seen so many emotions play out over the last 24 hours. indignation, horror fear and forgiveness this afternoon on the part of the victim's families. chaz your thinking on what has gone down in charleston and what the country should learn from it. >> if you look at the history of that sacred place, that church and all the things that place has meant throughout slavery and post shavery and civil rights movement and even now.

american should embrace that that church have such a power for forgiveness. it's been evident today in terms of what's happened in the proceedings in court. we should all learn from that alex. it is really quite an example of the best of this country. >> broderick johnson with my brother's keeper task force. thank you so much. coming up the fight to save the world's elephants from extinction comes to the most unlikely place -- time square.

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it is responsible for the slaughter of tens of thousands of elephants each year. and today the u.s. government made a demonstration of crushing over a ton of poached ivory in the middle of time square.

the confiscated ivory included items that came at the price of one elephant every 15 minutes. to educate consumers and declare the poaching trade will not be tolerated. poaching is at highest levels in decades with the rate of slaughter now exceeding reproductive capacity. there could be less than five years to save the animals and extinction in the wild. that is all for now. the ed show is coming up next."ed show"is coming up next. >> good evening america. and welcome to the "ed show." more crucial information today regarding the church shooting. the justice department is investigating as a possible act of terror. this morning we learned dylann

roof confessed to killing those nine people at the church. more details are becoming public. the wife and daughter of reverend pinckney were in the church office at the time of the shooting. after hearing the shots they huddled under a desk and called 911. a stunning scene earlier today as dylann roof appeared in front of the judge for bond hearing. we heard him speak for the first time as he answered standard questions from the judge. >> what is your age? >> 21. >> you are 21 years. are you employed? >> no, sir. >> you are unemployed at this time? >> yes, sir. >> thank you. >> during the hearing we also heard victim's family members direct roof directly. the sister after depayne middleton made this h