of terror. this morning we learned dylann roof confessed to killing those nine people at the church. more details are becoming public. the wife and daughter of reverend pinckney were in the church office at the time of the shooting. after hearing the shots they huddled under a desk and called 911. a stunning scene earlier today as dylann roof appeared in front of the judge for bond hearing. we heard him speak for the first time as he answered standard questions from the judge. >> what is your age? >> 21. >> you are 21 years. are you employed? >> no, sir. >> you are unemployed at this time? >> yes, sir. >> thank you. >> during the hearing we also heard victim's family members direct roof directly. the sister after depayne middleton made this heartfelt statement. >> my sister.

and thank you on the behalf of my family for not allowing hate to win. for me i'm a work in progress. and i acknowledge that i'm very angry. but one thing depayne has always joined in in our family with is that she taught me that we are the family that love built. we have no room for hate. so we have to forgive. and i pray got on your soul and i also thank god that i will be around when your judgment day comes with him may god bless you. >> charged with nine counts of murder and a weapons charge. the judge set bail at $1 million for the weapons charge. a separate court will set his bail for the murder charges. roof has been in protective custody and currently in isolation. roof is in the cell right next

to police officer michael schrager. slager is charged in the killing of walter scott. scott was stopped for a traffic violation back in april. we also learned roof reportedly told police he almost didn't go through with the shooting because everyone was so nice to him at the bible study wednesday night. two days later we are learning must have much more about the killer. >> a clearer picture is emerging. >> stayed to himself. really low key. he wasn't -- he was under the radar. >> this middle school friend says roof recently reached out to him for the first time in five years and made some troubling comments about race. >> he was just saying how he didn't agree with the trayvon martin case. how he wanted segregation. we wanted white with white and black with black and he didn't believe with what the black race was doing to the white race.

>> pictures show rough sitting on the hootd of a car with a confederate license plate. the family says he was a good student when he was younger but while repeating ninth grade he dropped out and never returned. cops arrested him after security reported he had been going into stores asking employees how many people were working and what time they closed. when they approached, police found a bottle of narcotics and booked him for drug possession. that case is still pending but now he is the suspect in a church massacre. a woman who spoke to a survivor said one of the victims tried to talk to roof while he was reloading his gun. >> he just said i have do it. he said you rape our women and you taking over our country. and you have to go. >> if convicted dylann roof will face the death penalty in south

carolina. earlier today south carolina governor nikki haley had these comments to say. >> these are nine families that are struggling. this is a state that is hurt by the fact that nine people innocently were killed. we absolutely will want him to have the death penalty. this is the worst hate i've seen and the country has in a long time. we'll fight this as hard as we can. >> a memorial service is planned for the victims which is expected to start within the hour. president obama is addressing a conference of mayors and is expected to address the shooting and we of course will cover that for you live here on msnbc. let's turn to nbc's dave gutierrez who was in the courtroom today in south carolina. gabe, there was a rather hearing procedurally. tell us about it. >> reporter: extremely unusual. roof is still in the charleston

county detention center behind me held on $1 million bond. set for the weapons charge. said he could not set them on the nine murder charges. but there was a highly unusual hearing. first, because the media was put in overflow rooms because so many victim's families showed up to the hearing. bond hearing as you know many times are procedural. but this started out with the judge making a personal statement really to the community and saying that charleston was a very strong community and asking the public not to think just about the victim's family in this case but also about the family of the defendant dylann roof and what they must be going through. so after that he did some procedural things such as set the next court date for october and another court hearing for february and then he allowed the victims families make essentially what were victim impact statements. statements you really only see many times during sentencing, but in in daysthis case they were able

to speak directly through video conference to the defendant in this case and as you played some of them they were extremely emotional. after that the judge adjourned. and he did set his bond at $1 million. but the victim's family again, they -- struck me as watching this from the media overflow room is more than one of them said that they forgave this accused killer as they were able to speak to him for the first time. and for the first time as you mentioned we were able to hear him as he mumbled several answers to standard questions the judge threw at him. such as what was his age and whether he was employed or not, ed. >> nbc's gabe gutierrez from south carolina. thank you gabe. let's turn now to michael eric dyson and also heidi byrich of the southern poverty law center. heidi you first. what do we know about the

shooter? did the southern poverty law center have him on the radar? >> we did not beforehand. what we've come to learn is he clearly is involved in white supremacist thinking to some extent. you just don't get an apartheid area south american flag and all that without being exposed to that type of the propaganda. and he's been inculcated to some extent in the standard line popular in white supremacist circles which is that black people are external nating or genociding whites and that twisted logic may well have inspired him to do what he did. >> i think the governor's call for the death penalty may fall in an endearing fashion for

some. but for the family that has already forgiven him, ed we've got to underscore that. how remarkable how incredible the humanity of those people to already tender forgiveness to this young man and to suggest to him that even though they suggest this that they have in their hearts already overcome the pain and agony and the anger that they will continually grapple with. but to offer to him a forgiveness in advance is rather remarkable and repudiates every stereotype that he had about -- that he has about black people. that he says they are murderers and rapists and the like. i think those developments alone suggest not only will that region lurch towards heal bug offers a paradigm of engaging issues pain, racial hatred in ways that can ultimately find reconciliation in this country.

not cheap reconciliation not rushing towards it. but acknowledgment that as we hate it is an obstacle for the person who hates even more than the object of the hatred. >> the pain and anguish is something this community of south carolina has probably never witnessed. for generations. but yet there is a defense out there to keep the confederate flag on state property and acknowledge it as the state flag, which we all know what it represents. what is wrongs with this picture? what is wrong with this picture? and where should this conversation go? and beyond that what is it going to take to rectify it? the president said today it belongs in a museum not on top of the state capital. your reaction to that? >> the president is absolutely right.

and, you know, articulating that viewpoint is extremely helpful. nikki haley the governor of that state must be challenged. the tears she shed seemed quite credible. the feeling, we don't need a death penalty for a young man who's already murdered nine people. we need to engage the kind of culture of hatred that sustains and repusroduces the pathology we saw in him. and that is a culture that separates a flag of death to those who are racially different and white supremacy that continues to flow in this country to this day. so it is easy to say oh my god he's crazy, where did it come from? ono. the real tragedy is this young man was an outgrowth of a culture that produced him. not an exception. >> heidi, your reaction to that. an outgrowth from the culture. a new surveys shows that 49% see

the flag as a symbol of racism and 49% see it as a symbol of southern pride. >> it is ridiculous. the flag has got to come off of all public property anywhere. this is the flag of slavery and oppression and the ku klux klan and hate groups. it is almost unconscionable. that thing has got to go. >> i understand how south carolinians would say they want it recognized because it is part of their history and history teaches us all something. but it would seem that it would teach us that maybe that flag doesn't belong there anymore on state property. things have certainly changed and back then it was horribly wrong. >> yeah. >> michael eric dyson, this is

going to take some real leadership in the south, where these folks live for this to change. and what is going to change the attitude? >> ed there are two things here. i'm deeply empathetic with the push to remove that flag. because symbols of racial hostility and anger are real. and people rally around those symbols in a fashion that is quite disturbing and dangerous. but the tragedy is that even when that flag wasn't flying under the united states of american, our old glory and the flag we have today, so many atrocious acts have been created as well. so even when we get rid of that flag we've got to get rid of attitudes, disposition, behaviors and world views that cause some people bad and good because of the color of their skin. those kind of things have to be uprooted as well. it's both and. not either/or. >> i think you can make the case that the confederate flag in

south carolina gave somewhat of a support system to the thinking of dylann roof. i think you could easily make that case. michael eric dyson, heidi, thank you so much for joining us. and of course we are waiting for remarks from president obama. he is speaking at the conference of mayors in san francisco. we'll bring you those comments live and have more panel discussion. stay with us. lots more coming up on the "ed show"right here on msnbc these two oil rigs look the same. can you tell what makes them so different? did you hear that sound?

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president obama is speaking at the conference of mayors in san francisco. we'll bring his comments live. he expect him to comment on the shooting in south carolina. also john rawlsen had an interesting interview with hillary clinton and she talked about trade and how she would vote if she were in the senate. that's coming up.

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conference in san francisco. and we'll bring you those live. he is expected to comment on the horrific shootings that took place in south carolina. presidential candidates have canceled campaign events in south carolina to allow residents to mourn. senator lindsay graham who represents the state cleared his calendar and returned home to be with the community. bernie sanders encouraged those to make donations to the church. hillary clinton called for a national dialogue. >> we have to have a candid national conversation about race and about discrimination prejudice, hatred. >> all of the presidential candidated from eds have condemned the shootings. only rick santorum tried to convert the discussion to assault on religious freedom. >> you talk about the importance of prayer at this time.

but we're now seeing assaults on religious liberty like we've never seen before. it is a time for deeper reflection even beyond this horrible situation. >> there is no doubt as this country mourns what has unfolded down in south carolina the folks who are running for president deem it important for them to step forward and comment on what has unfolded. joining us tonight. bob strum, caroline and michael steele msnbc political analyst and former rsn chair. this is a really hard time for those running for public office. you are condemned if you say something wrong and you are wrong if you don't say something. michael steele this is a pretty untenable position to be in. because you want to say the right things and convey your message properly. how tough is this? >> it is a little tricky.

and you can see just from the rick santorum comment how given the gravity of the situation people feel well that is not this. and so you have to walk that tight rope a little bit carefully. but i will say this. i think this affords the candidates an opportunity to show the american people who they really are. how they think and feel. and out of the safety box of political correctness or campaign structure and speak honestly as hillary clinton sort of laid out there and other candidates have laid out there and said we need to have this national dialogue. rand paul and others are trying to move in that direction. so while there is dangerous, there is real opportunity i think as well. >> opportunity, that is an interesting word mr. steele uses. president obama, the day after at the white house gave his statement and talked about gun violence in this country. hillary clinton was not coy at

all about bringing up what we have to do in society about these frequent shootings that take place. your thoughts on how they are handling it? >> well i think that both of these people those elected officials or candidates are handling it well. i think it is only a controversy if you are not willing to admit that this is racist. this is a terrorist act driven by racist ideology. the gunmen was willing to admit that. and as candidates they all need to step up and say that in very clear terms. black americans have suffered daily micro aggressions to mass shootings for as long as this country has been in existence. and the fact that we now have to have this conversation again and the candidates are worried about stepping on the toes of racists i think says a lot about where the parties, where their dedication is to african americans in this country. >> bob, your thoughts on all this? how does a candidate handle it? >> i think that you don't handle

it as a candidate. i think you handle it as the human being. and i know everybody assumes that if you are running for president your every moment talking to your pollster trying to find the right thing to say. there is only one right thing here. this is an act of racial hatred. this country needs to come to grips with racism throughout history. and we need to reach out and begin to have -- and everybody is using the word clarification/dialogue. we need to do that. we also need to be honest about things. the confederate flag should not be flying on the capital grounds in south carolina. that is number one. number two, we should stop playing to this kind of racial resentment by putting barriers in the way of people who want to vote and who often find it difficult to do so. and number three, we have to deal with the kind of poison that we see on the internet that can take somebody like this kid

dylann roof and turn him into a monster, which is what he was the other day. >> ed? >> yeah michael i've got to ask you. as a former chair of the rnc and as an african american how do you feel about the confederate flag flying in south carolina? >> well i'm still scratching my head as to why. i understand how some people feel about it. but i know how the rest of the country feels about it. and that to me should be the standard, the greater reflection of who we are. and that flag doesn't represent that. let's put it in a museum and talk about it as part of our history. but let's not make it a part of our future. and i think that that is something going to what bob just said that we need to be real about. i would say this. in addition to what bob said i'm less interested in the argument of a flag flying over a building. i'm less interested in whether or not, you know this is a

political strategy on voting or not voting. i'm more interested in the systemic issues that deal with the underlying issue of race and how white people feel about it and how black folks people about it. at the end of the day that is what it's all about. how blacks and whites look at each other and view each other in the context of our living in this country. and until we're prepared to sit down and have that conversation all of the rest of this is really kind of noise. and we get up and feel violated but we're not willing to do the hard inner look ed and say who are we? and why do we feel this way about each other? >> well the very people we're talk actoring about. hillary clinton, bernie sanders, the president of the united states. they are the ones that have lead this discussion and whether we like it or not drag this country into a different way of thinking so the dylann roofs aren't produced by society. someone taught him how to hate.

someone brought him to this level of thinking. he had some kind of support system. and i think you can make the argument that that flag that flies in south carolina is part of that support system. it is an acceptance that what that flag represents is acceptable in society. so where do we go with this caroline? >> well i would very much agree that he learned this. but i think it is a myth to think that racists are unusual. we are a white supremacist society. we are a society that on its face values white people what they do and their body their integrity more than people of color. not just african americans but all people of color. we dehumanize people of color in this country. so once a white person recognizes this if they are given the opportunity and privilege of education, then it is a constant struggle throughout the course of your lifetime to overcome it. and i do think that that flag is very much a symbol of hatred for some it is a symbol of heritage.

but that is a heritage of hate. so the fact we have a flag of essentially treason flying next to the flag of the united states just doesn't make sense in 2015. >> 90% of this country wanted background checks after sandy hook. it didn't happen in washington. is this going to be another incident where as the president says we have the power to do something about it or is this going to be one of the incidents that is going to go off and spin off into history as a horrible event and yet we do nothing about the frequent gun violence in america? does this play into the 2016 conversation. >> i think it will play into the 2016 conversation but i'm not optimistic that anything will be done right now. i thought it was brave and sensible and right of the president to talk about this issue the other day. i think that was his decision. he inserted that into the statement. but to think that this republican congress which is a wholly owned subsidiary of the nra is going to move on this is

wrong. you had a board member of the nra blame the reverend who was leading this bible study for the fact that he was shot. because in the south carolina legislature he had opposed allowing people to carry weapons concealed into a church. now, i cannot imagine the horror that could have occurred if people were sitting around with concealed weapons this thing started and you had a full scale gunfight. you might not even have three survivors. but i think in 2016 in democratic primaries this is going to be a big issue. i think that the nra will try to use it in states like kentucky and west virginia and the general election to try to defeat the democratic nominee. but i think at some point the continuery is going to rycountry is going to come to the place where it says we have to do something. how many more tragedies like this do we have to endure?

>> great to have you with us on tonight. more on the response to this charleston shooting coming up. and later hillary clinton talks trade but still doesn't have what some people are asking for, a clear answer. journalist john ralston joins me with his take after the interview. about a biologic this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira helping me reach for more. doctors have been prescribing humira for more than 10 years. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contrubutes to ra symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers including lymphoma have happened, as have blood liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb hepatitis b,

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usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. welcome back to the "ed show." president obama is speaking at the u.s. conference of mayors in san francisco. he's expected to comment on the charleston shooting. let's listen live. >> -- worried a little bit that dennis johnson would introduce me again. at the white house he had the old bull's theme song. and it set a very high bar. as if i was michael jordan coming out. and he is a great friend and very much appreciate him as i do so many of the mayors here. i saw a lot of you in washington

in january. i thought i had such a good time let's meet this summer as well. and this time i thought i'd come to you. i want to thank our host san francisco mayor ed lee. [ applause ] he was just in the white house for the san francisco giants' championship visit. i know how excited the bay area is over the golden state warriors championship. i want to thank two outstanding public servants governor jerry brown and leader nancy pelosi who are here with us today. and i want to thank this year's leaders, kevin johnson, -- [ applause ]

i also want to mention a few outstanding mayors who are getting ready to step down. michael nutter of philadelphia has done outstanding work. [ applause ] greg ballard of indianapolis outstanding mayor. doing great work with "my brother's keeper." thank you. and annese parker of houston. and my dear old friend michael coleman of columbus ohio. [ applause ] and finally, a great mayor, one of my favorite people. and i know one of the people all of you admire so much. a great mayor joe reilly of charleston. [ applause ] joe's back home doing one of a

mayor's sadder more important duties today. obviously the entire country has been shocked and heartbroken by what happened in charleston. the nature of this attack in a place of worship, where congregates invite in a stranger to worship with them only to be gunned down adds to the pain. the apparent motivations of the shooter remind us that racism remains a blight that we have to combat together. we have made great progress, but we have to be vigilant. because it still lingers. and when it is poisoning the minds of young people it betrays our ideals and tears our ss

democracy apart. but as much as we grieve this particular tragedy, i think it is important, as i had mentioned at the white house, to step back and recognize these tragedies have become far too commonplace. few people understand the terrible toll of gun violence like mayors do. whether it is a mass shooting like in charleston or individual attacks of violence that add up over time it tears at the fan rick of the community. it costs you money. and it costs resources. it costs this country dearly. more than 11,000 americans were killed by gun violence in 2013 alone.

11,000. if congress had passed some common sense gun safety reforms after newtown after a group of children had been gunned down in their own classroom. reforms that 90% of the american people supported. we wouldn't have prevented every act of violence or even most. we don't know it would have prevented what happened in charleston charleston. no reform can guarantee the elimination of violence but we might still have some more americans with us. we might have stopped one shooter. some families might still be whole. [ applause ] y'all might have to attend fewer funerals. and we should be strong enough to acknowledge. at the very least we should be able to talk about this issue as

citizens. without demonizing all gun owners who are overwhelmingly law a-abiding but also without suggesting that any debate about this suggests a wild eyed plot to take everybody's guns away. i know today's politics makes it less likely that see any sort of serious gun safety legislation. i remarked that it was very unlikely that this congress would act. and some reporters i think took this as resignation. i want to be clear, i am not resigned. i have faith we will eventually do the right thing. [ applause ] i -- i was simply making the point that we have to move public opinion. we have to feel a sense of urgency. ultimately congress will follow

the people. and we have to stop being confused about this. at some point as a country we have to reckon with what happens. it is not good enough simply to show sympathy. you don't see murder on this kind of scale, with this kind of frequency in any other advanced nation on earth. every country has violent, hateful or mentally unstable people. what's different is not every country is awash with easily accessible guns. and so i refuse to act as if this is the new normal. or to pretend that it is simply

sufficient to grieve and that any mention of us doing something to stop it is somehow politicizing the problem. [ applause ] we need a change in attitudes. among everybody. lawful gun owners those who are unfamiliar with guns. we have to have a conversation about it. and fix this. and ultimately congress acts when the public insists on action. and we've seen how public opinion can change. we've seen it change on gay marriage. we've seen it beginning to change on climate change. we've got to shift out we think about this issue.

and we have the capacity to change. but we have to feel a sense of urgency about it. we as a people have got to change. that is how we honor those families. that is how we honor the families of newtown. that is how honor the families in aurora. now, the first time i spoke at this conference in 2008 i said that americans -- succeeding despite washington they should be succeeding with some help from washington. and as president i've made it a priority to partner be mayors like you. that's why i named three former mayors to my cabinet. that's why i asked a former president of this conference to be one of my top advisers.

president obama speaking at the united states conference of mayors in san francisco. clearly his most extensive remarks since the horrific shooting in south carolina. the president making the case that legislation can be passed and it will save lives. he talked about newtown and talked about background checks. and of course we need a change in attitudes in this country and that is how we're going to honor those victims. let me bring back in bob strum. caroline heldman, and michael steele. mr. steele i'll start with you. it seems like the president is pleading with this country to stop the political divide. change attitudes and move forward. do you think it can happen? do you think washington might be listening? >> no to be hongs i don't think they are. and i don't know the evidence of washington not really listening or really caring about this issue is newtown.

his references to newtown were poignant. when the president said congress acts if the public insists on their action. well 90% of the public said we wanted action. and what did the congress do? avoided and didn't address the issue. it doesn't matter at that point whether you are for gun control or against it whatever. what action are you prepared to put on the table so we can have a national conversation. my question to the president and there was a lot that i took to heart what he said. so propose the bill like you did on healthcare. propose the legislation to force the congress into the conversation and see if the public rallies around that. see if you can motivate and inspire that type of energy within the public so that we can begin this conversation. >> yeah. very strong words by the president. caroline what do you think the president's next move is on this? >> i assume he will actually propose some legislation. and this is a big shift for him. for the first six years he has

not actually spoken about any sort of gun control after one of these mass shootings and there have been six that have received this sort of attention since 2008 but actually over 20 have occurred on american soil during that time. and i think it is illustrative to look at australia. they had a mass shooting in 1996. they passed major reform in terms of gun ownership laws and have not had a single mass shooting in the following years. so it can be done. it can be effective. >> bob, the president noted how we've had a change of attitudes when it comes to other issues in this country, such as gay marriage. and of course changing of attitudes is something that is hard to do when you mentioned earlier you have the backdrop of the national rifle association fear mongering and targeting those who don't see the world the way they do. so how heavy of a lift is this going to be? >> i think it is going to be a very heavy lift. michael steele i think is right.

90% of people wanted action after new town. and by but right now i think he can't really be the legislator in chief. this congress is not going to pass this kind of gun safety and legislation. but he can be the educator in chief. he can talk over and over again to the country about this. make sure this is part of the 2016 dialogue and hopefully in 2016 if we can have a real debate about this, maybe in the years after that we're going to be able to act. >> well the president is saying that we lost 11,000 lives last year to shootings in this country. he says if we had legislation, maybe some of those folks would still be with us. the president believes that legislation such as background checks will save american lives. we'll see if our elected leaders do something about it. i appreciate the conversation guys. thanks for joining us here on the "ed show." we'll be right back. y go roam

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welcome back to the "ed show." so far candidate hillary clinton has refused to say where she stands on the trans pacific partnership. the democratic front runner has become expert on dodging the question as i see it. meanwhile on thursday hillary clinton kind of told political reporter john ralston where she stands on fast track. >> last question. if you were in the senate still would you vote for tpa when it gets there? >> at this point probably not because it is a process vote and i don't want to, you know, say it is the same as tpp. right now i'm focused on making sure we get trade adjustment assistance. and i certainly would not vote for it unless i were absolutely

confident we would get trade adjustment assistance. >> let's bring in john ralston. good to have you with us tonight. did you get a sense that hillary clinton was uneasy about this subject? what do you make of it? >> i thought her body language and her answer showed exactly that. you rarely can catch hillary clinton off guard. she is a very difficult person to interview. but if you watched her body language and how she answered that last question that came after a fairly lengthy discussion of trade and tpp and tpa. she paused. she did not expect me to ask what she would have done. she essentially all but took a position she did not want to take. before that ed she did exactly what you described earlier in that she essentially dodged the whole question of tpp. she wants to essentially be able to say to her democratic constituencies that she needs

running for president, i'm with you. i'm against this. but she has a record as secretary of state of making many comments in favor of tpp, which she is you get a sense this is becoming a real problem for her? because you can talk process, you can talk authority. the american people are viewing this at the end of the day it's a rotten trade deal and she won't say whether she's for or against it she gets talking about process. your thoughts? >> i think talking about process and you've seen others do this too. they can confuse what is a pretty complicated issue, ed, when you take tpp and taa and you have to explain all those different things and you have the white house press secretary talking about it being a process issue, but there's more to it than that. and hillary clinton is clearly uncomfortable with it. whether or not it becomes an actual problem for her is more difficult to say, ed. >> john ralston, always a pleasure. good to have you with us tonight. she did a sitdown interview with you. that's more than she's done with anybody else.

good to have you with us. still ahead, water worries. nasa scientists say the planet's water supply is drying up. big story, the globe needs to pay attention to. uh, no we're going to roll out globally. ok. we'll start working on some financing options right away. thanks, joe. oh, yeah. it's a game-changer for the rock-climbing industry. this is one strong rope! huh joe? oh, yeah it's incredible! how you doing team? jeff you good? [jeff] i think i dropped my keys. [announcer] you work hard to build your company. wells fargo will work right alongside you, bringing the expertise your company needs to move forward. wells fargo. together we'll go far. put your hand over your heart. is it beating? good! then my nutrition heart health mix is for you. it's a wholesome blend of peanuts, pecans and other delicious nuts specially mixed for people with hearts. planters. nutrition starts with nut. audible safety beeping audible safety beeping

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reliably fast internet starts at $69.95 a month. comcast business. built for business. welcome back to "the ed show." sth this is a story the world has to pay attention to. new satellite data is a scary reality. the world is running out of water. data from the gray satellite

system shows water from half of the world's largest aquifers are being depleted. scientist at uc irvine says there's no data about what remains in the aquifers. demand on the underground basin says even higher during drought. rain-starved california is tapping aquifers for 60% of its water use. scientists say water from aquifers could account for nearly every drop of the state's fresh water supply by the end of this year. experts say the aquifers under the most stress are in densely populated regions where alternatives are certainly limited. joining me is a professor of earth system science at the university of california irvine and senior water scientist at nasa jet propulsion laboratory. i appreciate your time tonight. this is stagger inging data.

if i have this correct, this hard data really is the first picture we have of what we actually have as a water supply on earth. is that correct? >> well it's really the first picture, contemporary picture that we have of all of the aquifers the world's biggest aquifers at the same time that allows us to see how rapidly they're all being depleted at the same time. it's mostly concentrated in the midlatitude regions of the world and the arid and semiarid regions where we need our ground water most. this is a ten-year study. is this date that that we've just never had before. is this groundbreaking stuff that nasa is providing the world? >> yeah. yes, its absolutely is. these are data from the nasa mission otherwise known as g.r.a.c.e. it's given us a few looks at a

few key earth system parameters. how fast the ice sheets are melting, how much mass is being added to the oceans and now how much water we're losing from the world's aquifers. >> professor, is there any other data out there that would parallel this that would even come close to its accuracy and impact? >> well not satellite data but certainly data on the ground. but the problem with data on the ground is that it's very expensive to collect and it's not shared internationally. so meaning there could be existing monitoring wells in the middle east or in india or in china, but we as scientists all over the world are not likely to see that data. in addition to the technological achievement of being able to monitor these ground water storage changes, the ability to see all the aquifers across political boundaries at the same time is really revolutionary.

>> well it is as i see it and read the story surrounding all of this. i mean i think joe average on the street when he sees a weather map and sees a satellite, we can tell a storm is coming. to parallel that is this pretty much absolute the same thing to scientists? >> it is. the storm is definitely coming but it's a slow -- you know it's a slow burning storm. it's more like the decades of not quite drought but the decades of perennial water shortage are on the way and they'll be exacerbated by the increasing frequency of drought due to climate change. >> and this is not a political debate. this is an absolute correct? >> that's right. now, this isn't a debate. we can see, we can tell from the wells on the ground that the water table is falling. we can see in california the streams being depleted and the ground subsiding at a foot per year some some places. so no it's not up for debate.

it's an observation. >> i need a solution. our audience wants a solution from an expert and that is you, sir. >> wow, thank you for putting me on the spot. so you know the biggest solution that we have really is to conserve is to use a lot less, and we do have to start with agriculture because that's a biggest user of water around the world, not just in the united states. 80% of the water that we withdraw from rivers or aquifers is used for agriculture. and you know solutions like desalination that we hear about all the time and sewage recycling are very important but they're really only going to be effective in metropolitan regions. so we really need to be thinking about how we are allocating our water to agriculture looking for more efficiencies with irrigation, maybe changes in water pricing, changes in crop selection and we can manage our way through it. we're not going to be reversing the depletion. we'll only be slowing it down.

>> all right, professor jay famiglietti. i appreciate your time on "the ed show." we'll certainly follow the story, no question. that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. "politics nation" with the reverend al sharpton starts right now. welcome to "politics nation" on a day of breaking news from charleston south carolina. it was a rare and extraordinary scene. a bond hearing for 21-year-old dylann roof accused of killing people gathered for bible study. he appeared in court through closed-circuit television. for the first time we heard him speak. >> is your address 10428 garner sperry road in east charleston north carolina. >> yes. >> thank you, sir. what is your age. >> 21. >> are you