depletion. we'll only be slowing it down. >> all right, professor jay famiglietti. i appreciate your time on "the ed show." we'll certainly follow the story, no question. that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. "politics nation" with the reverend al sharpton starts right now. welcome to "politics nation" on a day of breaking news from charleston south carolina. it was a rare and extraordinary scene. a bond hearing for 21-year-old dylann roof accused of killing people gathered for bible study. he appeared in court through closed-circuit television. for the first time we heard him speak. >> is your address 10428 garner sperry road in east charleston north carolina. >> yes. >> thank you, sir. what is your age. >> 21. >> are you employed?

>> no, sir. >> you're unemployed at this time? >> yes, sir. >> it was the same voice the victims would have heard shortly before roof allegedly opened fire. sources tell nbc news he confessed to the shooting. and before the judge said the bond the victims' family members, who were in the court, got a chance to speak directly to him. i can't recall ever seeing anything quite like it. >> you are representing the family of ethel lance, is that correct? >> yes. >> and you are whom ma'am? >> the daughter. >> i'm listening. you can talk to him. >> i just want to say to you, you took something very precious away from me. i will never talk to her ever again. i will never be able to hold her

again. but i forgive you. and have mercy on your. you hurt me. you hurt a lot of people. but i forgive you. and i forgive you. >> thank you, ma'am. and i appreciate you being here. your name, sir? >> anthony thompson. >> mr. thompson. >> i would just like him to know that -- >> speak up for me. >> say the same thing that was just said. you know, i forgive you and my family forgives you. but we would like you to take this opportunity to repent. repent confess, give your life to the one who matters the most christ, so that he can change it and change your ways no matter

what happened to you and you'll be okay. do that. and you'll be better off than what you are right now. >> your name ma'am? >> felicia sanders. >> thank you, miss sanders, for being here. >> we welcomed you wednesday night in our bible study with open arms. you have killed some of the most prayerfulest people that i know. every fiber in my body hurts, and i'll never be the same. tywanza sanders was my son. but tywanz warks was my hero. as we say in the bible study, we enjoyed you, but may god have mercy on you. >> thank you, ma'am. your name ma'am?

>> ms. simmons. >> thank you for being here. your statement, please. >> although my grandfather and the other victims died at the hands of hate this is proof -- everyone's plea for your soul is that they lived in love and their legacies will live in love. so hate won't win. and i just want to thank the courts for making sure that hate doesn't win. >> thank you ma'am, for being here. your name please ma'am? >> bethann newton brown. she was my sister. and i'd like to thank you on behalf of my family for not allowing hate to win, for me i'm a work in progress, and i acknowledge that i am very angry, but one thing that

prayers always join in in our family with is that she taught me that we are the family that love built. we have no room for hating. so we have to forgive. i pray god on your soul and i also thank god that i won't be around when your judgment day comes with you. may god bless you. >> thank you, ma'am. >> as i listened to those family members, it was nothing short of remarkable, the strength and moral courage they showed. forgiveness and saying they won't let hate win. forgiveness means that you can forgive the wickedness that someone does without becoming part of it. you can forgive the unjust but you don't pardon the injustice.

you keep fighting and you keep going forward. and the only way you can is not become part of the spirit that causes the injustice in the first place. these families and their loved ones are real heroes. joining me now from charleston is msnbc national reporter tremayne lee and south carolina state representative david matt. tremayne, let me go to you first. what is the reaction in charleston to that amazing scene today? >> rev, as you know the faithful are often the most vulnerable, but that doesn't mean they're weak. we seen that in that courtroom and seen that out here today as people have streamed in front of emanuel church with messages of resilience and pushing through. but that doesn't mean there isn't also a bit of anger. one young man said how much more can we take?

and no one was surprised, and that was one of the saddest things i heard over and over again, that this kind of violence is american. and it's been visited upon houses of worship in the past. so as people are trying to make sense of this and families are trying to make funeral arrangements and the whole community is trying to piece this together there's still underneath all of that seems to be a great sense of faithfulness and resilience. when you talk to people who have heard that testimony in the courtroom from the family members and witnessed the crying, it belies what you see out front of this church. you see balloon, you see flowers, you see solemn faces. i'm offering up high praise to those who were lost but inside that church there was a tragic horic act and people are still trying to grapple with that. even though people are seemingly being broken down there's also this sense that they're being built up in their faith, rev. >> representative mack i sense that yesterday as i was there with you and others that

buildup that realignment of their spirit and their faith to move on, what was the reaction you heard from some of your constituents and colleagues in charleston after the statements by the family members at the bond hearing? >> there's so many folks including myself that not only knew pastor pinkney. i don't want people to confuse their beautiful statements with being passive. all of those folks voted, all of them were involved in community organizations, all of them were involved, reverend al in things that you would do things that you spent your lifetime fighting for. i think as we begin to continue to heal with the pain and everything as it results with this terrible incident i

believe we're going to be realigned with a new focus so that we come together across the board. and one last thing, reverend al that comes to mind sometimes we have folks of all color saying well, we don't need a reverend al sharpton any more national action network, we don't need a reverend jesse jackson any more. we need you more than ever. we need elected officials. we need people that heads up neighborhood associations. we need everybody to stamp this segment of hate we have in this country so we can move forward. >> trymaine, the family of the suspect, dylann roof just put out a statement. words cannot express our shock, grief and disbelief as to what happened that night. we are devastated and saddened by what occurred. we offer our prayers and sympathy for all of those impacted by these events. i noticed the judge said today that they were victims, too. what do you feel as the reporter there on the scene that no one

mixes in and gets into communities deeper and stronger than you. what do you feel the reaction of this statement will be from the roof family? >> i feel you what rev, as you know in communities that are impacted by everyday gun violence, there's always more than just one victim. there's the victim whose bones and bodies shattered by bullets and also the loss of another life, a young man or woman who is put behind bars or succumbs to a life of violence. in this community which seems to be such a faithful community, we're talking about a community built around church. this is a very faithful community with more churches than you can hit with a rock rev. but so people i think understand that, you know they take that and they understand that they're victims on all sides of this. >> you know representative mack, today president obama talked about the shooting in charleston and he also addressed the issue of gun control. watch this. >> i refuse to act as if this is

the new normal. or to pretend that it's simply sufficient to grieve and that any mention of us doing something to stop it is somehow politicizing the problem. >> representative mack south carolina has some of the most easy gun laws to put it my words. do you think that gun laws will be part of the discussion going forward as well as race and mental health? >> it has to be. i think it will take on a whole new dimension as did the body camera bills after the unfortunate killing of walter scott, we were able to pass a body camera bill for law enforcement. guns have to be addressed. i remember a segment, a news segment where they followed the 15-year-old boy who looked 15 looked young. he went in to buy liquor that

you can't buy. he went in to buy cigarettes. they said you can't buy it. he went in to buy porn. you can't buy it. he went in to buy a lottery ticket. you can't buy it. then he went in at 15 to buy a gun and they sold it to him right away. something is wrong with that picture. >> wow. wow. you know trymaine one of the things i saw there yesterday was people across racial lines going to the church going to gatherings and standing together, and there's a lot of tension and certainly forgiveness does not mean you're passive and not active. maybe you're even more active and freer to move forward. that sense of community, that sense of unity, do you feel that that will last? >> rev, you see it out here and it is kind of a beautiful moment to see people coming together in a time of hurt. but let's remember after the shooting in newton where, for a while, everyone from all sides of the aisles came together to say enough is enough but then sooner than later everyone fell

back in their corners. that happens on a local level, too. you see people coming together that would normally be joined linking arms coming together. but i spoke to a representative from the local naacp and said last night inside the church everyone was together until one of the pastors started mentioning gun control. and a few of the leaders on the other side kind of sat down and got quiet. what happens next week what happens next month when the issue -- when the pain isn't as visceral? what happens then? i think that's what community members, organizer, everyday residents are trying to figure out, how do we create or force some change in this moment of hurt? how do they do that? and we've seen it time and time again. clearly we haven't figured it out yet. >> trymaine lee and state senator david mack and certainly thank you for your leadership representative mack, thank you both for your time this evening. coming up was this massacre a hate crime or an act of terror? the justice department made a big announcement today.

plus should this suspect have had a gun in the first place? the gun debate is back with a new twist. also the shooting sparks a new debate about the confederate flag. is it all about heritage or about hate? (glasses clinking) ♪ (ground shaking) well there goes the country club.

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the charge is nine counts of murder an one count of possession. what is your age? >> 21. >> you're 21 years. are you employed? >> no sir. >> you're unemployed at this time? >> yes, sir. >> a riveting scene today, the confessed killer speaking for the first time at a bond hearing. the judge setting a $1 million bond on a weapons charge for possessing a firearm. he did not have the jurisdiction to set bond for the nine murder counts he faces. today a justice department official saying they're looking at a potential act of domestic terrorism. so what happens now? what will the prosecution look like? the prosecutor spoke today sharing a powerful story about how she's motivated to move

forward. >> i want to tell you a little bit about a phone call i received about four or five weeks ago. i knew the caller but i didn't know him well. and he said to me he said i'm sorry i hadn't reached out before now, but i want you to know we're with you. and i want you to know that we appreciate how you're doing this. i want you to know that we are behind your team all the way. that call was from senator pinckney. he had a deep understanding for our need to work behind the scenes quietly for a successful prosecution. and those words are extremely inspiring to me now. and inspiring to my staff as we move forward with this prosecution. >> joining me now ryan levin, the director of the center for the study of hate and extremism

at california state university and veteran prosecutor and legal analyst paul henderson. paul how do you successfully prosecute this case now? >> well you know it's easy at one level because it's so clear with the homicide and that's the basis. that's the real foundation that is leading the charge in all of this. there is contemplation of making this a hate crime or terrorism, but really the mass murder is what i think is going to drive the train. for the hate crime, it's really an act of prejudice against a person or property where there is a perception real or perceived, for someone in a protected class and it's almost the overkill but it does speak to the race issue that underlies why everyone is so frustrated with this case and the tragedy

that is in this city right now. i think what's going to happen is what's going to drive the train are the murder charges and the absolute killing, and keep in mind that since it's a death penalty case and they do have the death penalty in this state, anything else that gets added on is going to be extra, and it changes and it shifts and expands what a prosecutor is going to have to show in terms of showing that the crime was racially motivated if they do pursue it as a hate crime, which in this case should be fairly easy to prove. >> let's build on that a little brian, because the announcement that the doj could be looking -- they announced they're looking at this as an act of -- it could be looked at as an act of domestic terrorism is potentially a huge huge development because the federal statute to prove domestic terror says an act, one, must involve acts dangerous to human life

that violate federal or state law. two, must appear intended a, to intimidate or coerce a civilian population, and, three, must occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the u.s. what do you think is the possibility of the justice department moving forward on domestic terrorism and the success if they do? >> i think they have multiple choices. they can go the domestic terrorism route which you so articulately conveyed right now. they can go under the shepherd byrd hate crime law which if you use a firearm and that results in death where there's an intentional selection of a victim based on actual or perceived race you could use that statute. and you could also use a church arson statute which says if death results from interfering with someone's religious expression. so they have three choices. the big thing, as mr. henderson mentioned, is we had a death or

multiple deaths result. we had nine. so that's going to be the template over which everything else is overlaid. that being said the state charges merely require showing a premeditated murder and that there were two or more victims to get the death penalty there. that being said let me just say something, usually the justice department does not get involved when there's a successful state prosecutor. but reasoncently with the mississippi murder of an african-american after the state adjudicated the defendants and got convictions and guilty pleas the federal government came in as well. this is something that's relatively new. there's no double jeopardy bar because the supreme court has ruled different levels of government can prosecute without that fifth amendment prohibition arising. >> now, going back to the state level, paul the prosecutor wouldn't talk about penalties she'll seek. but this morning governor nicky haley made it clear what she wanted. listen to this. >> this is a state that is hurt

by the fact that nine people innocently were killed. we will absolutely will want him to have the death penalty. >> she wants the death penalty. you mentioned this is a death penalty state. does this reach the bar of a death penalty case? >> absolutely. i mean this is a mass killing no matter how you look at it. the premeditation is there, the multiple victims are there. i think that's what's going to drive the train. and as our guest just talked about earlier, i think everything else is going to be secondary. i don't necessarily see the federal government stepping in -- into this case once a conviction is obtained that includes the death penalty. i think one of the things that will be interesting, as we see the federal government they are conducting their own secondary investigation is looking at investigation into his background and to see are there organizations he was a part of. was he participating in a broader scheme or was there a pattern and behavior with other organizations that he may have been working with that led him to this violence and then that

will be something that they could act upon possibly. >> you know brian, we talked about whether the federal government would go for domestic terrorism or hate. one of the interesting things when you talk about not having double jeopardy different levels of government is south carolina does have the death penalty, but it doesn't have a state hate crime. >> correct. >> bill. >> absolutely. that's correct. >> and it's one of five states that doesn't. so the state couldn't go after him on a hate crime if it wanted to because they do not have a hate crime law in south carolina. only the federal government could do that. >> you're absolutely correct. and i do think there's some kind of vindication when we charge these crimes as a hate crime, if they are a hate crime and, gosh what the heck else would be a hate crime if this isn't? so yes, and i think this is important. this is a moment where south carolina can step up to the plate and get a hate crime law on the books.

with respect to what you just said though there is something interesting about how states often prosecute these. and that is for murders, hate crime charges actually don't add anything in a matter like this. >> correct. >> in california a racial motive is an aggravating factor that a prosecutor can use to get a death penalty conviction but in other states no. >> so there's no additional penalty. >> correct. >> right. but where i think the hate crime charge would help is for those aggravated assaults and simple assaults where the penalties are rather low. that's why we need to enact a hate crime law in south carolina and the four other states that don't have it. >> brian lebvin and paul henderson, thank you so much for your time tonight. still ahead, how this tragedy has sparked a new debate about the confederate flag. is it an expression of heritage or of hate?

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we must mourn the dead in charleston but we also must take action to change the broken system. that really let this shooter get a gun. president obama talked about that just moments ago. >> more than 11,000 americans were killed by gun violence in 2013 alone. 11,000. if congress had passed some commonsense gun safety reforms

after newton after a group of children had been gunned down in their own classroom, reforms that 90% of the american people supported, we wouldn't have prevented every act of violence or even most. we don't know it would have prevented what happened in charleston. no reform can guarantee the elimination of violence but we might still have some more americans with us. we might have stopped one shoot er er. some families might still be home. i want to be clear. i'm not resign edsome families might still be home. i want to be clear. i'm not resign eded. i have faith we'll one day do the right thing. >> he's not alone. there are far too many guns out there. but when south carolina's republican governor was asked if the state's gun laws should

change, she said this. >> any time there's a traumatic situation, people want something to blame. they always want something to go after. there is one person to blame here a person filled with hate. a person that does not define south carolina. and we are going to focus on that one person. i know that president obama had, you know his job to do and he made those statements. but my yob is to getjob to to get the state to heal. >> we are focusing on the families. but we should also do everything we can to prevent something like this from happening again, and that includes tightening gun laws. south carolina doesn't require background checks at gun shows or for private sales. it doesn't ban assault weapons or restrict the size of ammunition magazines. one thing it does do -- it doesn't allow guns in churches. and some gun lobbyists are blaming the shootings on the

fact that the church was a gun-free zone. it's ridiculous. you shouldn't need to bring a gun to church. the system failed here. roof should have gone through a background check and if he did go through one, he should have failed because he had a pending felony charge. the system needs to change. just ask the victims' families. >> we've been here before whether it's a movie theater or a classroom or a church gun violence has again plagued our country, and every time this happens, we have a national conversation for about two or three days and then we go on to something else. this is an issue that i think we have to confront no matter which side of the aisle that we stand on. >> joining me now is dan gross, president of the brady campaign to prevent gun violence. thank you for being here dan. >> good to be here. >> dan, the president's saying

we will do the right thing. how do we make that happen? >> we hold our elected leaders accountable to do right by the people that they've been elected to represent by keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous people. this isn't a debate over one specific tragedy. this is a debate over the 88 lives that are lost every single day in our country and something real that we can do without taking guns away from law-abiding citizens to keep guns out of dangerous hands and prevent actually most of those tragedy. there are thousands of guns sold every single day in our country at gun shows and online to lord knows who without background checks. 90% of the american public as the president points out are in support of closing those loopholes that put guns into dangerous hands. >> why haven't we done it? we don't -- we've seen where children were not protected in a school in connecticut, people in a theater in colorado. now people in a church in south

carolina. when do we rise up and make these elected officials change these laws? >> first of all, we need to realize that a tragedy of epic proportions happens every single day in our country. 88 lives are lost because of bullets in our country every single day. and we need to realize that there are things that we can do to prevent it things that our own elected leaders are working against because they're lap dogs for the gun industry and the lobby. there are very real things that we need to demand of them to prevent these tragedies from happening. >> it's still not clear how the shooter got his gun. "the washington post" is reporting -- and let me read the quote -- when roof was arrested he had a glock .45 caliber semiautomatic handgun that law enforcement officials said he had obtained in april, either receiving it as a birthday gift or buying it himself with birthday money. the gun was purchased legally,

officials said. so whether he bought it illegally or got it as a gift doesn't this show the system doesn't work? >> in may -- who knows if he got this gun legally? we'll find out. you can debate wrotehether he would have failed the background check or not. this whole tragedy might have been avoided. but again we have to stop debating this only in the wake of these single horrific mass shootings. we have to look at this in the context of our greatest opportunity to save lives. we can do that by expanding gun checks to all sales. and another big problem that's impacting our friends and brothers and sisters in chicago which are bad apple gun dealers. 5% of gun dealers in our country are selling guns to traffickers and straw purchases that are committing 90% of the crimes in this country. by putting bad apple gun dealers

out of business we can cut down on the number of gun deaths without taking away from any law-abiding citizen from owning a gun. >> thank you for your time. >> thank you, sir. ahead, ghost of the past. today new debate over old images like the confederate flag still in front of south carolina's statehouse. later, powerful forgiveness. martin luther king iii joins me to talk about that and healing after the massacre. when you travel, we help you make all kinds of connections. connections you almost miss. and ones you never thought you'd make. we help connect where you are. to places you never thought you'd go. this, is why we travel. and why we continue to create new technology to connect you to the people and places that matter.

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i think it's awful. even before this day. that we would have a flag that represents hate flying on our state capitol. >> it's a flag of racism. it should be in a museum. it shouldn't be over the statehouse. >> the flag is offensive. it is offensive. may i say it again? the flag is offensive. it needs to come down. >> hanging over south carolina in the midst of this horrible tragedy is its history. this photo shows the shooting suspect with his car, and it shows the confederate flag on his license plate. until 15 years ago that same flag flew on the top of the statehouse dome, and when the idea to remove it started to gain momentum there was a huge

rally to celebrate the flag. in 2000 the state did take the confederate flag off the dome but they added it to a monument right in front of the statehouse, and it's not just the flag. the statehouse has monument to jefferson davis, the president of the confederacy, who wanted to expand slavery. confederate general and slave owner wade hampton. and ben tillman, a member of a white supremacist militia that executed black men. that history is not in the past where it belongs. it still haunts the country today. my colleague chris hayes is live in charleston tonight. chris, today you went out to look at the city's legacy in this area. what did you see? >> well i went around with a man named kevin alexander gray who is a longtime activist in the state from south carolina former army captain, former head of the aclu in the state of

south carolina. we went around and went to the slave market which is one of the tourist destinations here. one has been turned into a museum. it was a market that was created after laws were passed essentially to take slave trading, which used to happen openly publicly on every street -- not every street corner but all over the city a law was passed that it had to be done inside. this was a private slave market. we went and looked at the statute. john calhoun, one of the sort of colossal figures in south carolina history, vice president of the united states also represented the state. and that was erected at the end of reconstruction towards the end of the 19th century when this amazing shift in power was happening in which a state that had become a democratic state that had black legislators and black voters was being taken back by the power of white supremacy. they erected that statue which is literally just a block from here. i can see it from where i'm standing. they erected that so high to make sure that freed men couldn't pull it down. we went to fort sumter andmit sumter

and looked at where the first shots were fired by federal cadets on a federal garrison in ft. sumter. >> i don't think people understand, these people are celebrated with statues and all kinds of things of honor throughout south carolina. i remember when james brown, who was like a father to me they built the james brown statue downtown in augusta facing his statue all up and down broad streets confederate general statues. it's amazing how this is accepted and these people outright represented slavery, racism and represented leaving the country. >> yeah. the hallmarks are everywhere you look around charleston. not incidental to what charleston is. charleston is a boom town right now, it's thriving, its real estate market is thriving galleries and restaurants are thriving.

there's a thriving seat for tourism and much of that is driven by visits to famous civil war sites. for a very long time in city has had a complicated relationship to that history because in some ways it's marketing that history and has to market it in such a way that doesn't essentially offend people that are easily offended by anyone suggesting that the confederacy was what it was, which was a treasonous violent army dedicated to white supremacy. >> why are people still defending it? because i notice that people are sill trying to act like this is heritage rather than as hate. >> look it's very hard for me to get inside the mind of folks that feel that way. i had a really fascinating conversation with a white woman today who is from charleston whose family came here in 1670 she told me. and she just talked about how people start to get in a kind of a defensive crouch very quickly

when you start talking about the flag. even people that she likes that she's friends with who she thing thinks of as enlightened folks, when you start to talk about the flag there's something deep in them that starts to get very very -- get their back up. it was really a fascinating conversation. >> this hits home for me. i'm so glad to see you dealing with this. we found that my great-grandfather was a slave in edgefield, south carolina. chris hayes, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you rev. >> and to see more of chris' reporting, watch "all in" tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. ahead, how faith is shaping the response to this tragedy. we need to counter hate with love and action. i'll talk about it when martin luther king iii. >> racism remains a blight that we have to combat together. we have made great progress, but we have to be vigilant because

it still lingers. it betrays our ideals and tears our democracy apart.

i've seen the promised land. i may not get there with you, but i want you to know tonight that we as a people will get to the promised land. >> we're getting closer but

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you'll love. find more real possibilities at aarp.org/possibilities. he talked about the dream that he had. it's a dream that many of us believe in firmly but it's also a dream that you not only change society but you change yourself. so you can be the conduit of the change you seek. joining me now is dr. king's eldest son, martin luther king iii. thank you for being here tonight, martin. >> thank you, rev. >> you lost your father to gun violence and race and your

grandmother you lost to gun violence. and you have committed your life to fighting racism and violence and here we are at this unbelievably tragic scene. nine people killed in a church. first of all your reaction to what is happening and what we ought to be coming out of this discussing? >> my first reaction and first thought was this was reminiscent to me because it was in a church. the first thing i thought about was the loss of my grandmother, not my father in this context because of the church. i was like, oh, my gosh, here we go again. the second thing i thought about was how these families would have to grieve and how many people would be grieving because of the loss of all these individuals. and then i thought about, you

know, we live in an incredible nation but something has gone awry. we have promoted a culture of violence. and that is what is being embraced, when it's television shows, computer games, and we need to figure out how do we create a culture of nonviolence, which is what dad would say. and quite frankly, what's interesting about this most interesting and important is how these families have said that love is and not hate. that's the most powerful thing we've seen in a long time. >> you know when i was going to charleston yesterday, i thought about rev rend pinckney who was with us the last time i was there around the walter scott case. but i thought about how your grandfather talked about forgiveness. >> yes. >> and how your mother always talked about forgiveness with your father being killed. and i had no idea today we'd

hear that from these family members. i want to get your take on it because it was powerful words of forgiveness. listen to this. >> although my grandfather and the other victims died at the hands of hate this is proof, everyone's plea for your soul is proof that they they lived in love and their legacies will live in love. so hate won't win. and i just want to thank the courts for making sure that hate doesn't win. >> hate doesn't win. i mean i was stabbed once leading a march and i had to find the strength to forgive the guy that stabbed me. thank god i wasn't killed or nowhere near what they're going through, but the forgiveness part was always a part of the movement that i don't thing a lot of people understand. >> but it is indicative quite frankly, and a true tribute

probably to reverend pinckney and the leadership he provided for this whole community because it would be understandable if someone came and said i'm struggling with this. i hate i want to see you die. nobody did that. that is absolutely remarkable. >> it is. you know the church itself that reverend pinckney pastored where this happened it is significant in your family as well in your personal history your father gave a speech at emanuel a.m.e. in 1962 about voting rights and making the american dream a reality. here we see assaults on the voting rights act, and we see the church where your father spoke about voting rights become the scene and in history now for this atrocious act. >> you know, that's quite interesting at this particular point because we're dealing and grappling with voter

suppression. so all of it in real way it's all connected. and i think what i was most humbled to see was this community coming together. it shows the goodness in people blacks and whites and young and old and rich and poor and latino hispanic and asian all coming together to support this community through what -- this heinous crime. this is one of the most heinous crimes we've seen in recent times. >> i think that, you know i saw everybody of all races there yesterday calling for healing, but one lady said to me something i'll never forget. she said yes, we need to heal but we need to understand what has made us sick. >> we must turn a page and begin to create something different. we are better than the behavior that we saw on that day when this young man walked in and killed all of these innocent

people. >> martin luther king iii, thank you so much for being with us this evening. >> thank you rev. >> and thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. the murder weapon. this is "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in san francisco. we'll get to the latest from charleston in a moment. but first, the president delivered a powerful statement late today to the u.s. conference of mayors here in san francisco. he said it's not enough to grieve after gun mass kearseacres like this. that the public needs to resolve to do something about them. and here he is. >> i know today's politics makes it less likely