people. >> martin luther king iii, thank you so much for being with us this evening. >> thank you rev. >> and thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. the murder weapon. this is "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in san francisco. we'll get to the latest from charleston in a moment. but first, the president delivered a powerful statement late today to the u.s. conference of mayors here in san francisco. he said it's not enough to grieve after gun mass kearseacres like this. that the public needs to resolve to do something about them. and here he is. >> i know today's politics makes it less likely that we see any sort of serious gun safety

legislation. i remarked that it was very unlikely that this congress would act. and some reporters i think took this as resignation. i want to be clear. i'm not resigned. i have faith we will eventually do the right thing. every country has violent, hateful or mentally unstable people. what's different is not every country is awash with easily accessible guns. and so i refuse to act as if this is the new normal. or to pretend that it's simply sufficient to grieve and that any mention of us doing something to stop it is somehow politicizing the problem. >> well that was dead right. anyway, this evening the people of charleston have come together for a vigil honoring the nine

victims of wednesday night's massacre at the emanuel african methodist episcopal church. it comes on the same day the shooter was in court for the first time. dylann roof appeared for a bond hearing. in that hearing we heard very emotional statements from several of the victims' families. >> to you, i forgive you. you took something precious away from me. i will never talk to her ever again. i will never be able to hold her again. but i forgive her. you hurt me. you hurt a lot of people. but god forgive you. and i forgive you. >> we welcomed you wednesday night in our bible study with open arms.

you have killed some of the most prayerfulest people that i know. every fiber in my body hurts, and i'll never be the same. >> for me i'm a work in progress and i acknowledge that i'm very angry. one thing we joined in was that she taught us that we are the family that love built. we have no room for hate. so we have to forgive. >> well they're christian people, of course as all christians know, practicing the best of our religion. sources told nbc news that roof confessed to police that he was the killer. he's confessed now. we're getting a first look at what happens, what appears to be video taken inside the church wednesday night just before the shooting. if you look at the picture, the man on the right with height hair appears to be dylann roof

himself. nbc news has not independently verified the video that mashup got from one of the friends. police say roof spent an hour at that baseball study group before standing up and opening fire on those people. all the victims were shot multiple times, we now know according to a police affidavit. before leaving roof stood over a witness and uttered a racially inflammatory statement. adam riess join us. certainly an emotional day for the family and the community down there, black and white together. >> certainly. it was an emotional and unusual hearing, as you just heard a little bit. one family member after another coming forward saying we forgive you, we forgive you. we heard that woman say, we just invited you into our bible study and look at what you did. every bone in my body every fiber is hurting today. you killed the most beautiful

people i know. may god have mercy on you. the roof family reads, our thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of those killed this week. we have all been touched by the moving words from the victims' families offering god's forgiveness and love in the face of such horrible suffering. after the hearing the prosecutor came out and talked about the investigation how it will go parallel with the department of justice hate crimes investigation. they'll do it behind the scenes. they want to make sure this prosecution goes smoothly. i want to mention one other item that we learned today. pastor pinckney's wife and youngest daughter were in the church behind me in an office under a table cowering calling 911. just the horror of it all. chris? >> let me -- do you know much about this story that's come out that the killer roof, apparently had said to the police that he was at one moment hesitant because the people were so nice to him in the church

hesitant about his decision to go ahead and kill them all? >> yeah. after the arrest up in shelby north carolina, he obviously, according to officials, he confessed, and then he said he went in there with a plan to kill them but they were so nice to him that he had second thoughts. he almost got cold feet but then he had to go ahead with his mission, chris. >> thank you very much. adam reiss for the grim details. they keep coming. this morning south carolina governor nikki haley told the "today" show she thought the death penalty was the appropriate punishment. >> this is a state that's hurt by the fact that nine people innocently were killed. we absolutely will want him to have the death penalty. this is the worst hate that i've seen and the country has seen in long time. >> nbc's craig melvin asked charleston mayor riley about the death penalty. >> that's the law in south carolina. so it no doubt will be. i personally am not a proponent

of the death penalty. >> even in a case like this? >> well i don't -- i think if you're going to have a death penalty, then certainly this case would merit it. i'm of the belief that that the death penalty is upholded in terms of -- i think collectively over time it adds to violence. i think people who commit serious crimes should lose their freedom forever, but that's the law in south carolina. no doubt it will be sought. >> i'm joined by georgetown law professor paul butler. thanks for joining. you were a former federal prosecutor. let's join at the state level. is there anything standing in the way of a jury hearing this case. is that what you expect here at the state level? >> absolutely. this is a first degree premeditated murder of nine people, nine counts. it's a case where the prosecution almost has to seek the death penalty politically.

two things to watch for, chris. first is whether the prosecutor will consult the families. many african-americans are opposed to the death penalty, especially those in the faith community. the second thing is whether this prosecutor would accept a plea agreement which would be life without parole. the defense would actually consider thisat a win. >> i wonder how this guy would fare in prison what do you think? not exactly a safe place to be. anyway, let me ask you about domestic terrorism at the federal level. once you've got a capital crime and a very available case for the state prosecutors, what would be the relevance of having a federal prosecution on either hate crimes or terrorism charges? >> there's really no incentive for hate crimes in this case because normally you'd bring those to get a tougher sentence. he's already looking at either death or life without parole. domestic terrorism, on the other hand, is defined as someone who commits a crime with the intent

to intimidate or coerce a civilian population. i think that fits what this terrorist did. he didn't just injure nine -- the nine people he killed although obviously they suffered the most severe injuries. he injured every african-american person in this country, and that is what his intent was. you know we charged the boston marathon bomber with domestic terrorism. we charged timothy mcveigh with domestic terrorism. >> sure. >> this terrorist is as much a terrorist as they were. >> what do you make of -- terrorism obviously we talk about it all the time. in an attempt to move public opinion. to terrify people, make them scared to go to the movies scared to live. how do you scare the african-american community from going to church? i guess i'm asking the insane question about the insanity this whole murder. what are you trying to do to people saying the best of a community or a church studying

the bible probably the same religion as this killer and what we want to do is teach them not to go to church but teach them to get on a boat and leave the country. what is he trying to terrorize them into doing, the black community in charleston or anywhere else? terrorism has a purpose. what's this guy's? >> you know i don't even know if it's worth trying to get into the mind of this race is lunatic. i think what he deserves is his day in court. he deserves the justice, the full justice of american criminal justice. >> thanks so much professor paul butler of georgetown. "washington post" opinion writer my friend jauntonathan capehart is here. he's a valued msnbc contributor. your perspective, i value it a lot. what do you think of what we saw and heard from down there today? >> when it comes to the victims' families, i haven't seen anything like it in all my years of reporting, in all our years

of watching you know horrible event after horrible event. and so that just as an event was extraordinary. but also the overwhelming -- that deep well of forgiveness from those victims' families was something that whether you were christian or not, had to have hit you in the heart. people who suffered a tragic losses 48 hours ago looking at the person who killed their loved ones and resting on their faith and saying to him before the world we forgive you. you've done this to us but we forgive you, is an extraordinary thing for all of us to see. i'm glad we were able to see it. >> you know i want you to do a little diagnosis here. the anger people feel towards authority when it's abused when a police officer is seen using his gun and his authority and his position to shoot somebody perhaps in cold blood, whatever

without any justification, obviously. then to have an attitude towards this kid, this 21-year-old, it just seems there's an emotional difference that's very rational. you would blame society and its authority figures for abusing their authority where in this case he looks just like some sort of vessel of hatred that somehow found himself into human form. like who is this being? but he does represent, it seems to me part of our culture and we know it and we don't like it. you know what i mean? it's different. how do you see it? >> yeah, he's a 21-year-old kid, but he's a 21-year-old kid who at some point turned evil. who at some point decided that he wanted to terrorize a group of people who, according to reports i saw, said he wanted to start a race war. he was telling these things to his friends, that he thought that the racists should be separated. he reportedly said during the incident that you rape our women and it's time for -- time for

you to go. this is somebody who at a very young age harbored age-old resentments, age-old hatred and, unlike a whole lot of other people out there who hold those same bigoted awful views, he put it into action into murderous action. and so yeah, he could be a 21-year-old kid, he could be someone who is too young to know maybe what he's doing, but from everything we've seen and everything that we've read even the statements from his friends, this was somebody who had a mission, this is somebody who wanted to terrorize people. and the department of homeland security warned the american people in a report in april 2009 that the white supremacist lone wolf because of their autonomy and because they're alone, they're probably the most dangerous domestic terrorists this country has to face. well the face of that report

now, the face of that warning is dylann roof. >> outside the courtroom today the emotion was palpable. in fact during the hearing, the bond hearing, members of the community gathered at the emanuel church itself and sang. nbc's thomas roberts was there on the scene. >> it's kind of heartbreaking. they're singing and a whole flood of people showed up at the same time. this arraignment was taking place. so you're hearing from the family and this whole group of people showed up. >> here's a young bad guy, an evil one as you mention, pushing for total segregation. and yet, jonathan among the horrors in this there are some ironies. he goes to the most segregated place in america, church. isn't that something?

>> it's incredible. one of the reasons why thomas choked up on air and a lot of people did is because this person was trying to difbvide us, trying to divide the nation and right there on television people came from all corners of charleston to go to mother emanuel and show solidarity. this is the flip side of evil. >> well, that's what it took to integrate our church. horribly said but it's true. among the people emotional about this though i really do take seriously was the governor down there, nikki haley. i thought she was as emotional as thomas roberts was. it's good to see humanity on television. coming up let's get inside this shooter's head if we dare. sources told nbc news he confessed to shooting the nine people. he's done that today. he said he wanted to start a race war. this was his motive. that's next. later the incredible emotion of the family members of the victims as they express

forgiveness to the gunman. incredibly so the one who killed their loved ones. our coverage continues after this. song: rachel platten "fight song" ♪ two million, four hundred thirty-four thousand three hundred eleven people in this city. and only one me. ♪ i'll take those odds. ♪ be unstoppable. the all-new 2015 ford edge. this is brian. every day, brian drives carefully to work. and every day brian drives carefully to work, there are rate suckers. he's been paying more for car insurance because of their bad driving for so long, he doesn't even notice them anymore. but one day brian gets snapshot from progressive. now brian has a rate based on his driving, not theirs.

get snapshot and see just how much your good driving could save you. at today's bond hearing for dylann roof the judge made a personal statement about the importance of reaching out to the victims of wednesday's crime. and he said that included relatives of roof. >> we have victims, nine of them. but we also have victims on the other side. there are victims on this young man's side of the family. nobody would have ever thrown them into the whirlwind of events that they have been thrown into. we must find it in our heart at some point in time not only to help those that are victims but to also help his family as well. >> he's not one of those victims. our coverage continues after this. then my nutrition heart health mix

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what is your age? >> 21. >> you're 21 years old. are you employed? >> no sir. >> you're unemployed at this time? >> yes, sir. >> welcome back to "hardball." that appearance in court today is all we've heard publicly from the killer dylann roof the 21-year-old who confessed today to murdering nine people at the historic black mother emanuel church on wednesday night during a bible study night. in the wake of today's confession and dramatic court appearance, we're getting into insights into this murderous mind. according to "the washington post," roof was, quote, unrepentant during a confession to police. he wanted his actions known. they also report this chilling detail about the attack. as he methodically fired and reloaded several times, roof called out, you all are taking over our country. you all want something to pray for? i'll give you something to pray

for. craig melvin reports that roof almost didn't go through with the killings because everyone in the bible study was so nice to him. but he then decided he had to quote, go through with his mission. in court today roof showed very little emotion. you're looking at cctv footage of roof's reaction as he was being confronted in court by victims of the family members he murdered. caroline murray is an anchor and reporter at wcbd in charleston and jerry mark is a reporter covering this story for "the washington post." thank you for joining us tonight. give us an update. people are tuning into this program as they are all night trying to figure out what they can about the killer. he's now a killer he's confessed, and we're able to say so. what kind of picture can you draw having reported on this? >> well certainly we saw a very different dylann roof someone who went into that church wednesday night and terrorized

people as we all across this country know. dylann roof is in isolation here in the north charleston detention center but certainly what he did to those families and to this entire community is something that we will never forget. but what he saw in court today, he had an opportunity to not only hear from the victims' family but to once again experience the same kind of compassion and kindness that was heepd upon heaped upon him when he walked into the church behind me. he saw that again from the families in that bond court today. so dylann roof once again experienced something very differently though that is not what he says black people have experienced or black people have done to white people in this

country. >> what do we make of the fact that he has told police he wanted to start a race war? he wanted reaction. he wanted reaction from both sides apparently. >> well, i don't thing thatk that he got it certainly not from the people in that church. and what can we say about someone like that? dylann roof was isolated from society. he apparently had dropped out of society. we know that he wasn't in school, he wasn't working. we know very little about him. we haven't heard very much from his family. we know that his father and his uncle turned him in. and we have heard very little from him, from his family. they did issue a statement today and they thanked the family members of the victims for being so kind to them and for forgiving the family and for forgiving dylann but other than

that we've heard very little from the roof family. >> jerry mark, thank you for joining us as well. stay with us cayrolyn. lots of attempt to try to put it in context, take this story of yet another horror involving race and gun violence. >> right. >> and all put together here and trying to figure it out. what have you been able to pull together about what it all means and what we've learned from it? >> we've learned more details in the last few hours about roof's last six months and what is being described to us as sort of a rootless kind of existence. he was apparently living in a mobile home but here and there only with some of his high school friends. he slept past noon he had a job as a landscaper but at one point but he got laid off. he apparently drank a lot. and what we're hearing is more than just a blatant white

supremacist bigot, we're hearing more of a portrait of sort of a troubled young man who was sort of troubled in general. his friends are telling us maybe they have an agenda because they're friends. they're telling us he didn't talk specifically about killing black people but he did talk about violence. he did talk about going and shooting up a school and he also -- this could be -- he also did not get along with his parents, as your other reporter said. he dropped out when he was 14. so there's a lot of things we don't know about him, but at a minimum, he was a very troubled young man with some years that sviews that appear to be pretty racist. >> the question i have how does a guy of his age, just 21 even know about rhodesia rhodesia ceased to exist as a country in 1980. i was all involved in that. i hitchhiked to that country in the peace corps. it's all gone. how does he even know about that rhodesia?

>> someone grappling for something, trying to find something to connect to and looking for a reason to act out violently. someone looking for a reason to hurt people you know this is someone who is hooking for a reason. their 15 minutes of fame. someone who wants to die. and at the hands of police and make a name for themselves perhaps. i mean this is all speculative at this point, and we don't know. and perhaps we will never know. and i had an opportunity to speak with the woman who pretended to be dead here at mother emanuel church. and you have to think of the pain the horror the stress that these people will live with for many years to come. this is what dylann roof perhaps wanted to inflict. he did on them. and on our entire community. we don't know why.

but what we do now understand is that this is what happens when someone perhaps is someone who has perhaps some kind of mental disorder or some kind of stress goes untreated. >> chris if i could add -- >> and left to fend for themselves. >> if i could add something, that's a good question about rhodesia. that could imply some sort of group or organized group, maybe a white supremacist group that he could have been involved in. we just haven't found any evidence of that. mysterious how a 21-year-old would have a rhodesian flag in his facebook profile. that's a really good point. >> carolyn, i think you're more than informed when it comes to speculation here. because as reporterer erreporters, we know he did talk to police about how he intended to go down shooting. it was all part of this martyr role he had in his mind. thank you so much carolyn murray from wcbd and jerry markon from

"the washington post." up next, remembering the nine victims of the massacre. we'll get to know these people who died in church believing and praying, doing christian work and, in fact that purpose in their life has been carried on by their relatives. don't you see, as charleston comes together for a prayer vigil. if you misplaced your discover card you can now use freeze it to prevent new purchases on your account in seconds. and once you find it you can switch it right on again.

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planters. nutrition starts with nut. i've smoked a lot and quit a lot but ended up nowhere. now i use this. the nicoderm cq patch, with unique extended release technology helps prevent the urge to smoke all day. i want this time to be my last time. that's why i choose nicoderm cq. welcome back to "hardball." they were in the church and prayed together but evil sat in their midst. after the shooting ended nine were dead. and there was the honorable reverend clementa pinckney of emanuel a.m.e. tywanza was known as a quiet leader. cynthia hurd was a 54-year-old

who worked at the charleston county public library for 41 years. the reverend depayne middleton doctor was an admissions coordinator for wellesley in charleston. sharonda singleton was therapist and wife and mother. here are her beautiful children. >> we forgive. that's one thing we're going to do. we forgive right now. >> amen. >> for everything that's happened. she's the best mom that i could ever even ask for. and honestly this is going to be tough, but i know we'll get through it as a family. >> unbelievable people. 74-year-old daniel simmons was a regular at the wednesday night bible study sessions. he survived being shot but later died during surgery. he was the ninth to die. susie jackson sang in the church choir. myra thompson was 59. friends say she loved the lord and was teaching bible study when she was shot and killed.

joining me right now to talk about the ninth victim of the shooting 70-year-old ethel lance is a reporter for the "post" and "courier." you profile a remarkable woman here. tell us about it. >> yeah i certainly did. ethel lance was a woman of great strength and had so much life and love and energy. she was widowed in 1988 and had five children whom she raised you know with as much you know, love and vigor for life as she had and it's been really a privilege to you know speak with these families. a shame that it's in these circumstances. but i'm privileged they've shared their memories with me. this is tragic that it had to happen to such a wonderful woman. if you see the pictures of her, it's almost like you can see in

her eyes the life that she had. she was a custodian since the gilliard auditorium opened. it's just a few blocks east. and she was very dedicated to what she did there. i mean she took huge pride in keeping the place in order, and her co-workers have all talked to me about her and how she would get very you know almost territorial about what she did because she wanted to do it the best. and they could always count on her. and she retired in 2002 after, i think, 34 years of working there. and she continued to work as a custodian for the church behind me and she was very dedicated to that, too. she liked being a caretaker of places and of people and i think that her spirit will be greatly missed here in the low country. >> at the bond hearing for dylann roof today. a daughter of ethel lance was

one of the family representatives who gave an emotional statement in the courtroom. here she is. >> i will never talk to her ever again. i will never be able to hold her again. but i forgive you. and have mercy on your soul. you hurt me. >> well she taught her family her religion didn't she? they are the truest christians i've ever come across i think in this business. they are totally turn the other cheek people. it's astounding to me. >> it is truly astounding you know i haven't heard that actual recordings yet. after speaking to nadine today, you know i just -- my heart goes out to them so much. they were all very religious people faithful people and you know she told me that her mother was a peacemaker. she always wanted everybody to get along.

and that was her role in the family and in the community, i think. and i think that her children have demonstrated that as well. turn the other cheek and forgive. and live the life that they have been shown to live and it's just -- i'm at a loss almost to even put it into words how astounding that is to hear. >> i think we've met the early christians here. thank you, abigail darlington of the "post and courier" down there. up next more on the president's speech today. his tough talk on guns and his growing frustration over washington's inability to do anything about guns. olicy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. ♪ those who have served our nation have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and

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i'm milissa rehberger. here's what's happening. escaped convicts richard matt

and david sweat have been added to the u.s. marshals most want list. there's still no sign of the pair two weeks after their escape. comcast founder ralph roberts died last night at the age of 95. his son brian roberts called his father an inspiration to us all. comcast is the parent company of msnbc. now back to "hardball." how many innocent people in our country, from little children to church members to movie theater attendees, how many people do we need to see cut down before we act? >> before we act. well said. welcome back to "hardball."

that was democratic candidate hillary clinton during a speech in nevada today. yesterday her old boss president obama responded to the shooting in charleston which left nine dead with a sense of frustration over another gun-related massacre of innocent people. >> once again innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. at some point we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries, and it is in our power to do something about it. i say that recognizing the politics in this town foreclose a lot of these av news right. >> he corrected that one today. he removed the impression he was somehow accepting gun violence.

nikki haley told savannah guthrie what she thought of what the president said yesterday. >> any time there's a traumatic situation, people want something to blame, they always want something to go after. there's one person to blame here. a person filled with hate. a person that does not define south carolina. and we're going to focus on that one person. i know that president obama had his job to do when he made those statements, but my job is to now get this state to heal. >> joining the roundtable tonight jonathan capehart opinion writer for "the washington post." he rejoins us now. francesca chambers white house correspondent for "the daily mail" and jonathan allen political correspondent for vox. i want to hear from everybody on this. your personal professional journalistic reaction to the charge that we shouldn't talk about gun control after there's been an incident of gun violence, that's when we shouldn't talk about gun control after there's been a period or

episode of gun violence. your thoughts on that? >> governor haley is wrong. when the president went into the briefing room and said he's been there far too many times talking about these things because it seems throughout his presidency he's had to console the nation after one shooting incident after another because someone was able to get their hands on a gun and wreak hafbvoc on a community. tear families apart and hurt people. the president in his remarks at the conference of mayors earlier today, you know, he talked about galvanizing the american people because when the american people rise up congress has no choice but to listen. you know what? after newton the american people rose up over the slaughter of 20 children in a school. 90% of the american people supported background checks yet congress did nothing. the american people need to be galvanized to push congress but they also have to be began

vallizeval ize -- galvanized to push the national rifle association to get them to back off so more families from charleston to aurora to other places don't have to suffer the horror that these people in charleston are suffering today. >> francesca. >> i think there's a fine line between coming off as a political opportunist and not, therefore, also taking the opportunity when a tragedy like this occurs if you are the president and you do believe there should be more restrictions on gun sales, to use this to push for that so that more of these sorts of senseless tragedies don't happen. because as jonathan points out, right after these sorts of shootings, that's when there is sort of the political appetite a media appetite and an appetite with the american public to have these sorts of discussions. if you look at polls, the a year after the shooting at sandy hook, the appetite starts waning

to have this conversation. when is a good time to have this sort of conversation? >> it's absolutely -- >> jonathan allen. >> absolutely insane to not have this conversation. this is not a random thing that happened. this is happening all over the country time after time after time and the one ling is thatk is that guns are able to kill people in a short period of time and they're defenseless. if someone had murdered nine people with a paper clip but it's guns every time. absolutely there needs to be a conversation about it. not just a conversation but action on this. >> but the president also i think struck chris, a good balance when he talked about it yesterday. he did not make a legislative push per se he didn't call on congress to act immediately. he didn't make any demands. he just suggested that there be a national conversation about this. and he also stated that he knew this wasn't going to happen at this time because of the politics in washington. so i don't think in my again, journalistic perspective that he

went too far yesterday either. >> today here in san francisco speaking to the mayors he did go further. he doubled down on his remarks from yesterday, a few minutes ago in a speech in san francisco. let's watch him. >> i know today's politics makes it less likely that we see any sort of serious gun safety legislation. i remarked that it was very unlikely that this congress would act. and some reporters i think took this as resignation. i want to be clear. i'm not redesign edsigned. i was simply making the point that we have to change public opinion. it's not enough to show sympathy. i refuse to act as if this is the new normal or to pretend that it's simply sufficient to grieve and that any mention of us doing something to stop it is somehow politicizing the problem. >> they can't even get a highway built through congress. obviously they're going to have

trouble with gun control. right wing commentators said the president's remarks, hmm -- anyway. i can't continue that thought. it's off the prompter. i want the raise a point here with all you three and that is this. the trouble is we care after bobby kennedy was shot i wrote my congressman. there are times you react personally and emotionally to things and then it fades. two days before the election who is thinking about gun control? the 10% who are pro gun, the second amendment people. the 90% are thinking about the economy, war and peace and all kinds of issues that grab their attention. but the gun owners all they think about is this issue and that's why they carry the day. jonathan allen, respond to that. that's our problem. it's about emotion and focus. as long as the gun control people can't keep focused on an issue as much as the gun owners do it is not going to happen. >> a high priority for a small number of people who have very influential lobbying organizations. interestingly we've seen the number of people in the united

states who want stricter gun controls has actually ebbed. it was 78% in 1990 below 50% now. i think if congress was ever going to act, i thought this would happen in the wake of gabby giffords being shot in the head, a member of congress. you would thing that would movek that would move some members of congress to see one of their own slain. it's an amazing hold that the gun lobby has on our congress and an amazing fact that a small percentage has such a loud voice. >> just our history of assassinations outdoes any banana banana republic. two million, four hundred thirty-four thousand three hundred eleven people in this city. and only one me. ♪ i'll take those odds.

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i do know i do know what was in the heart of the victims. >> we're back with jonathan. that was jeb bush at the faith and freedom coalition conference where many candidates spoke today. we now seem to have racism deniers. the inability of these politicians to talk about guns well that's historic. now they have an inability to talk about race. that's fairly new. what is the relevance of a republican presidential candidate if they're unable to admit there's a race factor here or gun issue here. what role do they play in our society? it's hard to figure this thing out. >> well, chris, i don't know. clearly they are intent on playing no role. which is a really bad thing to do. race is an issue in this country it was there before president obama was elected and it will be

there long after he has left the white house and until you have one or two of the political parties in this country completely ignoring a huge problem in this country that effects millions of americans and not just people of color. it also effects white americans then i don't know why they're even in the business of running for president of the united states. there's a lot of people that want to hear from the people that presume to be their leaders what they're going to do or what they think about it and republicans don't want to say what they think about it. >> this guy is out there sporting the flag of ian smith and what's his name the old leader of south africa and we're not to notice that it's something to do with race. thank you. come on i'll be right back with a comment about gun control in a moment. you're watching hard ball.

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>> let me finish tonight with insane proposals. why don't we issue a gun to anyone when they reach a certain age that way dylann roof wouldn't have had to use his birthday money. why don't we give a gun to everyone that walks into a bar to everyone will be ready if they need to have one. why don't we mail people gun with their acceptance package. that way they are armed and don't have to go through the trouble of finding a local gun seller. why don't we have an action line

that allows someone angry about something, maybe a racial thing to get a gun quickly in his hands so the thought doesn't leave him before he gets to take action. now stop for a minute and think about the insanity of each one of these. giving a gun to everyone regardless of temperament, mental condition or criminal behavior. giving a gun into everyone heading into the alcohol fuelled atmosphere of a night club. giving every college kid a gun regardless of their level of maturity. having a way with anyone with a grudge can get a gun in their hands. all of this would be insane except that how is this any different from the crazed demands of the gun lobby right now. aren't they demanding that the second amendment offers the right for anyone of any condition any time for any reason to have their hands on a gun and keep it there as long as they live? the sad thing here is we can have hate and live with it. we can have guns and live with it but when we have hate and

guns we're doomed to what happened in charleston the president as he often is is right on this. common sense gun control makes common sense. that's hard ball for now. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. >> good evening from charleston south carolina. at this hour dozens if not hundreds of mourners are streaming in behind me to the sight of the mass shooting at emanuel ame church just behind me across the street from where we are. this as the man who police say confessed to shooting those nine people in that church is spending the night at the charleston county detention center in cell 1141 b. his neighbor literally in the next cell.