great. oh! ♪ i'll stand by you ♪ ♪ won't let nobody hurt you ♪ isn't there a simpler way to explain the loyalty program? yes. standing by you from day one. now, that's progressive. forgiveness in charm stop. all right. good morning. thanks forgetting up with us this saturday morning. it has been only 60 hours now since a young man walked into the emanuel ame church in charleston south carolina sitting with a group during weekly bible study for a full hour before standing up and brandishing a gun. he opened fire he killed nine people. 60 hours since then the wounds are still fresh this morning. but in a remarkable scene

yesterday afternoon, relatives of those victims confronted the shooter to tell him that they forgive him. much more on that in just a moment. we're also on the show going to be tackling the controversy of whether south carolina should still be flying the confederate flag. americans more divided on that question than you might think. plus turning away from the tragedy for a bit, it's also been a vang week in the world of politics, one that has the potential to have lasting impact on the race for president. we'll be getting into that later in the show. but, we begin this morning in south carolina. that is where thousands of people gathered at an arena in charleston last night to remember those nine victims shot and killed inside of a church on wednesday night. >> we all have one thing in common common, our hearts are broken. >> that service capping an emotional day in charleston a day in which the gunman in that

shooting dylann roof appeared in court via satellite for the first time. roof appearing -- a video conference actually. he was formally charged with nine counts of murder. he's being held on $1 million bond on a separate gun charge, not due to appear in court again until october now. authorities say that roof confessed to the killings shortly after being arrested on thursday in north carolina. sources telling nbc news he told police he almost didn't go through with the shooting because everyone at the church was so nice to him. ultimately he did decide to go through with the shooting. chief prosecutor in charleston county says he wants to talk to the victim's family and review the evidence before deciding whether to seek the death penalty. south carolina governor nikki haley called witness's attack a hate crime and says she's already made up her mind. >> we absolutely will want him to have the death penalty. this is the worst hate this country has seen in a long time. we will fight this as hard as we

can. >> we have two reporters live in charleston. adam reiss is outside the emanuel ame church. we start by going to tremaine lee at the charleston county detention center. that's where dylann roof is being held. tremaine, yesterday we got our formal proceedings involving dylann roof. what does the road forward look like from here? >> reporter: legally speaking, this is just the beginning. judge set a $1 million bond on the gun charge, but didn't have authority for setting bail. dylann appeared via closed circuit television. for the first time we heard the family members of his victims speak. they spoke of great pain and anguish saying they welcomed him into their church for bible study, he took from them so much

more than they could ever get back. for the first time we saw the outpouring of grief from the family. dylann roof's family releasing a statement saying they are shocked and saddened by what happened. as the community is reeling, dylann roof will begin the process. still this community is piecing together slowly everything that dylann roof has taken from them. >> adam reese outside the church, in terms of what the reaction is, can you set the scene for what last night was lack, what we can expect today and weekend? >> reporter: it's a lot more of vigils funerals, more mourning. we're seeing a steady stream of people coming by the church to pay respects. a lot of emotion here. i want to also tell you about the arrest warrant. we're learning he walked into the church behind me with a fanny pack. he sat with the bible study group, right next to pastor

pinckney. after about an hour he stood up opened fire hitting the victims multiple times. on his way out he stood over one of the surviving victims and uttered some sort of racist comment. we're learning the pastor's wife and youngest daughter were in the church office at the time. they could hear the shooting and called 911. the 911 operator told them to stay inside. finally it was the father and uncle of dylann roof who called police and identified him in the photo and said that is dim landn roof and he has a 45 caliber handgun. >> thanks to adam reiss and trymaine lee. many victim families have been able to find forgiveness toward the gunman. they addressed him directly during his appearance in court yesterday. >> you hurt me. you hurt a lot of people.

but god for gives you and i forgive you. >> you have killed some of the most beautifulest people i know. every fiber in my body hurts and i'll never be the same. but as we say in bible study, we enjoyed you but may god have mercy on you. >> we are the family that love built. we have no room for hate so we have to for give. i pray god on your soul. >> we're joined by the reverend stephen singleton, senior minister at grace heritage ministries. he was a pastor at emanuel ame church from 2006 to 2010. reverend, thank you for taking some time this morning. that scene yesterday, i got to watch that live on television

yesterday afternoon. people who haven't seen that i encourage you to watch the whole thing. it's extraordinary. one family member after another from these victims' families getting up and speaking of mercy, of love and forgiveness. mie reaction and the reaction of so many people watching this yesterday, it was inspiring in a way, but also unfathomable in a way, imaging ourself in a situation like that not being able to summon those kinds of emotions emotions. >> i was so proud of them yesterday. they led with their faith. we have a passage in the bible that says nothing shall separate us from the love of god. they lived that yesterday. they proved to the world that nothing can separate us from his love and i think they made a statement for the ages for the world and for the faith we profess. i felt like a proud father. i knew all the voices that were speaking. i was just happy. i'm so grateful that they were

able to hold on to their faith. it doesn't matter what we say or do now. we can't change what happened on wednesday night. i'm just happy for the faith, and i'm happy they held on to their faith. >> the other extraordinary thing about that scene yesterday is the shooter, he has to listen and he has to watch. he has to listen and watch as these family members step forward and say these things. what do you hope he heard? what do you hope he took from that yesterday? >> i hope he learned that everybody e who may feel the way he feels, i hope they learn that they are agents of hate but they cannot overpower the ambassadors for love. i hope that he understands now that what he did was horribly wrong, that he attacked some wonderful people with wonderful families. and if they want to change the world, they need to change it in a positive direction.

hatred never wins. love always wins in the end. >> adam reiss was reporting more of the details from what happened wednesday night. this is a church you know very well having worked there in the past. i'm wondering about an event like this. it looks like a relatively small group, a bible study group, a close knit group. this guy shows up never been there before fanny pack walks in prays with them for an hour. is this something that's common at a session like that somebody who the group doesn't know showing up and saying i want to pray with you tonight, or was that a warning flag maybe in a way? >> no it is very very common for strangers to walk into mother emanuel. that church is known internationally because of its history. we have people from all over the world that drop in at emanuel, and regardless of what's going on, they join in. i understand -- i can picture in

my mind how welcoming they were. the people who were in that room that night were some of the most wonderful people you'll ever want to meet. i know they showed him kindness. they welcomed him, and his presence was not unusual. strangers are joining them at all times, and i wish that he had listened to the voice of god. because unofficially he said that he gave it a second thought before he carried out his plan. and i believe that that was god's voice talking to him and he just didn't listen. >> i wonder reverend how this will affect you and your fellow pastors out there going forward. that just sort of -- that atmosphere of openness you're describing at that church and other churches when somebody takes advantage of it like that to commit something as horrible as this. does that change your thinking? does that change your approach towards having a bible study group like that or just having such an open door policy in the

future? >> i think that we'll definitely give it some thought. i think my colleagues and other congregations and, of course that one we will have some discussions. we'll talk about it. but i do know that the kingdom has to remain open. the kingdom will always be open to others. so we'll deal with it accordingly. i have an event at my church this morning. i've already gotten a couple of calls about that as to how we're going to approach it. but we're open to god's people and we have to do that. but i'm sure we'll be very very aware of new faces. but we have to welcome them in any way. >> reverend stephen singleton, thank you for taking a few minutes this morning. appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. god bless. we'll have much more ahead this morning from charleston, also from the world of politics. before we get to that we've heard a lot in recent days about

the reverend clementa pinckney the pastor who was killed on wednesday. a state senator, someone president obama himself knew among the nine people shot and killed during bible study. now we're learning more about the other victims of wednesday night's massacre people like sharonda coleman-singleton, reverend at the church. most people calling her coach singleton, she coached track and field at goose treek high school outside charleston. also a speech therapist at that school. a landscaper yesterday drawing the initials s.s. in the field for sharonda singleton. she was 45 years old.covergirl introduces makeup with super powers. new outlast lipstick. long wear super powered by moisture. the super sizer the new mascara you twirl on to super size your lashes and your eyes.

and new stay luminous foundation stay naturally luminous all day. makeup super powered. from easy, breezy, beautiful covergirl. when heartburn comes creeping up on you... fight back with relief so smooth... ...it's fast. tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue ...and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. ♪ tum, tum tum tum...♪ smoothies! only from tums. ♪ mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys ♪ ♪ don't let'em pick guitars and drive them old trucks ♪ boys? ♪ mamas, don't let your babies...♪ stop less. go more. the passat tdi clean diesel with up to 814 hwy miles per tank. hurry in and you can get 0% apr plus a one-thousand dollar volkswagen credit bonus on 2015 passat tdi clean diesel models.

my name is marcus jenkins. i'm a lineman here in oakland. day in, day out, a large part of what we do is about providing reliable power to our customers. pg&e is dedicated to the community. i love working here because this is my home. oakland is my home. this is where i'm raising my children so it's important to me to make sure my family and friends have the power

and energy that we provide. this is very personal to me. it makes me work a lot harder knowing that this is my community. together, we're building a better california.

as much as we grieve this particular tragedy, i think it's important, as i mentioned at the white house, to step back and recognize, these tragedies have become far too commonplace. >> president obama last night making reference to charleston and other frequent incidents of mass violence in this country, what he termed this week a uniquely american phenomenon. >> i've had to make statements like this too many times. communities like this have had to endure tragedies like this too many times. >> the scene has been all too familiar, the president of the united states stepping into the white house briefing room and addressing a mass shooting. after newtown. >> each time i learn the news i react not as a president, but as anybody else would, as a parent. >> after aurora.

>> my daughters go to the movies. what if malia and sasha had been in the theater. as so many of our kids do every day. >> after tucson. >> we mourn with you for the fallen. we join you for your grief. >> president obama commenting in the wake of mass shootings at least 14 times since he took office. >> the country has to do some soul searching about this. this is becoming the norm and we take it for granted in ways that, as a parent are tire phiing to me. >> the statistics backing up the president data shows that mass shootings have become more frequent. in the last two years a mass shooting occurring on average every 64 days. while in the previous three decades that average was every 200 days. so why does this keep happening? have we become immune to the

scenes of grief and destruction? what can we do what can anyone do to stop it? >> let's be clear. at some point we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence doesn't happen in other advanced countries. it doesn't happen in other places with this kind of frequency frequency. and it is in our power to do something about it. i say that recognizing the politics in this town foreclose a lot of those avenues right now now, but it would be wrong for us not to acknowledge it. >> joining me to talk more about what the president had to say, alvin tillery, associate professor of political science at northwestern university.

thank you for joining us. i want to say, first of all, guns are a big part of this discussion, a discussion we'll have later in a segment in the show. for now i want to move this away from the issue of guns and talk more about the president's role here when these mass shootings, when these episodes of mass violence happen. this is 14 times now. and when we go back and look at the saep we just showed there, it almost seems as if he's running out of things to say. what is the role of the president in moments like this, do you think? >> the presidency is an awesome responsibility, as you know steve. we often comment about how significantly presidents age over the course of their terms and we tend to sort of thing about that in terms of the politics they're dealing with international crises national security. frankly, it's the weight of baring the responsibility for being the sort of mourner-in-chief for the nation that's also a real part of that. i feel for president bauchl and anyone who has had the responsibility that he has had.

this partly evenings plains why former presidents across the partisan divide often have a level of intimacy that we think would be abnormal in their political careers. it's because former presidents can relate to the sort of incredible weight that such incidents take on the office and on the man that's holding the office. >> is there a lesson here -- we always talk about cliche is the power of the presidency. part of the power of the presidency is the bully pulpit. it's striking for me to go back and look at the tape after all these previous incidents where the president comes out and tries to console the nation but also to try to change the tone. it seems he's struggling to find words that might change the tone to prevent something like this from happening in the future. it keeps happening. in a way is there a lesson about the power or the lack thereof of the bully pulpit? >> presidential scholars often

refer to the presidency as having real negative powers. the real power of the presidency is the power to nullify laws from congress that he or she doesn't like. but the bully pulpit is supposed to be about mobilizing us around ideas, a vision of who we are as a nation. it's clear in all 14 of these instances president obama has tried to mobilize us through the bully pulpit. the problem is we're in an era, steve, of hyperpolarization, post citizen united post mccutchen world where money groups have tremendous influence. the level of resignation of president obama expressed that despite the fact this keeps happening, he will not be able to make the changes that he believes are necessary through gun reform because of, as he called it the politics of the town, washington, d.c. that must be a sort of incredible sense of frustration for president obama and any president. >> he says, the words there in one of these clips was this is becoming the norm. we put those statistics up.

the number of or the frequency of mass shootings, the frequencies of mass violence does seem to be something that's increased markedly in the last generation, in the last decade during his presidency. it's something no president in a way has had to deal with on this scale before. >> i think starting with president bush we do see -- president george w. bush, we see an up take in these mass shootings. there's got to be a correlation between the expiration of the assault weapons ban in 2004. people say, oh there were mass shootings before that but gun technology has changed significantly in the last 30 years. so that coupled with the expiration of the assault weapons ban, it's mass chaos with these shootings. subsequent presidents will have to deal with this sadly in a way that president obama and president bush have had to deal with unless we change as a culture and unless we change our

laws. that's sort of pretty clear by the data. >> all right. like i said we will be getting into that question of guns that debate over guns a little later in the show. for now thank you alvin tillery, professor at northwestern university. >> thank you. >> we will have much more from charleston including how some presidential candidates are reacting. first we want to talk to you about depayne middleton doctor a minister who loved to sing. one family member calling her her beautiful song bird. middleton doctor are retired from her job at the county government and recently started work at her former school southern wesleyan university as admissions coordinator. she was 49 years old. there we go. ♪

lease an mkz for $289 a month, plus competitive owners and lessees get $500 bonus cash, only at your lincoln dealer. if you can't put a feeling into words, why try? at 62,000 brush movements per minute philips sonicare leaves your mouth with a level of clean like you've never felt before. innovation and you. philips sonicare. i accept that i'm not 21. i accept i'm not the sprinter i was back in college. i even accept that i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat, not caused by a heart valve problem. but i won't accept giving it less than my best. so if i can go for something better than warfarin ...i will. eliquis. eliquis... reduced the risk of stroke better than warfarin plus it had less major bleeding than warfarin... eliquis had both. that really mattered to me. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to,

as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. i accept that i'm not as fast, but i'm still going for my personal best... and for eliquis. reduced risk of stroke... plus less major bleeding. ask your doctor... if eliquis is right for you. chocolate! yeah!

for the grand prize... fruity and honey nut! yes!! that's not a cheerio! [laughs] no can we play again? yeah! turning now to the big political event of the weekend, republican 2016 hopefuls gathering in the nation's capitol to participate in tanl washington conference held by

the faith and freedom coalition. this is the latest cattle call for the crowded gop field. this featured a man who appears to be on the merge of making a late entry into the race ohio governor john kasich. it's focused on cull toorl issues like abortion religion and same-sex marriage, of particular interest as a supreme court decision is expected this days that could legalize it nationally. former florida governor jeb bush who did not talk about same-sex marriage during his formal campaign launch earlier in the week did address the topic yesterday. >> in a country like ours we should recognize the power of a man and a woman loving their children with all their heart and soul as a good thing, as something that is positive and helpful for those children to live a successful life. while there are people that disagree with this we should not push aside those that do believe in traditional marriage. i, for one, believe it's

important and i think it's got to be important over the long haul irrespective of what the courts say. >> for more let's bring in elliana johnson from the national review. conventional wisdom would say this is not necessarily jeb bush's crowd he's the more establishment candidate, these are the reledge ous conservatives. he's making a pitch to them on same-sex marriage. at the same time he has talked openly about being a little more mindful of the general election audience which is more moderate on these issues. how did he strike that balance yesterday and how does he going forward? >> jeb bush was interesting in that he threw his stump speech aside and made a pitch directly to the christian conservatives in the room. he's not a tremendous podium speaker, but he has to remind these voters that he was a guy who fought to keep terry schiavo alive. i think that's his most effective case to these people. he has a tough case to make when

he is a little slower in coming out against the supreme court -- the pending supreme court decision and things like that. he's not quite as forceful as people like mike huckabee rick santorum, ted cruz. i think it will be a tougher case for him to make. >> if we can play that out little bit. if the expectation is this ruling will legalize it nationally, maybe the supreme court will surprise us but let's say that's what happens. what does that do to somebody like bush going forward in the republican primary? as you say, he's going to have this pressure from his right, from a ted cruz a mike huck key, urging him to take a more hard line stand. at the same time he's going to have people say, look you don't want to be too far to the right on this one. >> jeb bush has made it clear he's not going to -- he's willing to lose the primary to win the general, as he said. he's not somebody who is going to pander to any one group of

voters. i think that will make it tough for him in any one niche crowd, like he was speaking at the faith and freedom coalition conference. >> we said in the tease, this is one of the debut performance of ohio governor john kasich who looks like he's going to be getting into the race. how was he received there? >> i'm always surprised at these conferences, everybody gets a warm reception. it's the people that electrify the room that you have to look for. john kasich didn't electrify the room though he spoke strongly about his faith. the person i was surprised by was ted cruz totally tossed his stump speech out. he's making a strong play for the people already committed to their favorite candidates huckabee sanitorium, ben carson. that's the guy to watch in this group. >> elliana johnson, thank you for taking time this morning. appreciate it. >> of course. >> coming up some of the 2016

hopefuls using the faith and freedom summit to talk about the deadly shooting in charleston. what they had to say after this. the candidates continue to hammer president obama for his handling of isis and other foreign policy decisions. we'll talk to the man retired general stanley mcchrystal about those decisions later this hour.t comes to good nutrition...i'm no expert. that wou ld be myaughter -- hi dad. she's a dietitian. and back when i wasn't eating right, she got me drinking boost. it's got a great taste and it helps give me the nutrition i was missing. helping me stay more like me. [ female announcer ] boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a delicious taste. grandpa! [ female announcer ] stay strong, stay active with boost. ♪ roundup ♪ ♪ i'm a loving husband and a real good dad ♪ ♪ but weeds just make me rattlesnake mad ♪ ♪ well roundup has a sharp-shootin' wand ♪ ♪ i'm sendin' them weeds to the great beyond ♪ ♪ roundup ♪ yeha! [ whip cracks ] ♪ ♪ ♪ no

need to pump just point and shoot ♪ ♪ hit 'em in the leaves and it kills to the root ♪ ♪ 'round fences, trees, even mulched beds ♪ ♪ 'cause the only good weed is a weed that's dead ♪ ♪ roundup ♪ yeha! [ whip cracks ] [ male announcer ] roundup... [ whip cracks ] with a one-touch wand.

audible safety beeping audible safety beeping

audible safety beeping the nissan rogue with safety shield technologies. the only thing left to fear is you imagination. nissan. innovation that excites. i just can't explain this. i go to the middle east a lot. i've seen hate up close, i've seen communities where everybody has been killed because of a different religion and you think, that's just over there. sometimes it's just not over there. >> that was south carolina senator and presidential candidate lindsey graham paying his respects to the victims of wednesday night's shooting in charleston. he's canceled his trip this weekend to remain in his home state instead. jeb bush was supposed to campaign in charleston in thursday right in the wake of that attack. when the attack happened he

then canceled that event. numerous reports indicating that the attack was racially motivated, the young man targeted the church specifically because it was a black church. at the faith and freedom summit in d.c. yesterday, bush seemed hesitant to make that connection. >> i don't know what was on the mind or the heart of the man who committed these atrocious crimes, but i do know what was in the heart of the victims. they were meeting in bother hood and sisterhood in that church. >> last night at a speech in florida, bush not skirting around, calling the attack racist. >> it just breaks my heart that someone, a racist would do what he did. >> as we expected the faith and freedom summit that we just talked about, most of the remarks focusing on the religious angle of the attack. >> the idea that anyone any human being would talk into a church and sit there for an hour and pray with people that he

intended to murder is depraved. it's unthinkable. >> if we don't pay close attention to the hatred and the division that's going on in our nation, this is just a harbinger of what we can expect. >> father lord we just grieve deeply for our brothers and sisters who lost their lives studying your holy scripture in a sanctuary, in a church and a house of god. >> meanwhile democrat martin o'malley striking a more outraged tone in his response e-mailing supporters yesterday that he is quote, pissed about what happened in charleston. that we're asking ourselves the horrific question of what will it take. how many senseless acts of violence in our streets or tragedies in our communities will it take to get our nation to stop caving into special interests like the nra when people are dieing. here to talk about the 2016 candidates we have msnbc

contributor david corinne, washington bureau chief at mother jones magazine former congresswoman nan hayworth from new york. thanks for being here. let's start on bush. we see where it ended up last night. it seemed he got the memo during the day. he had that line in the speech where he said i can't get into the guy's mind and heart. reporters followed up with him afterwards. he seemed, hesitant to go there on the question of race. but by the end of the day, he wasn't. >> it was kind of mind-boggling to those of us who follow the minute-by-minute news of the day because by the time he spoke, it was quite clear that dylann roof had a racial motivation. he even said so himself. the witnesses had said he had used racial epithets and wanted to start a race war. there was no question about it. it seemed as if jeb bush did not want to acknowledge that. when he gave that speech later the night, it seemed he

purposely used the word racist. make sure you get the word out tonight governor because he had gotten bad press in between. it raises a question whether the republicans or conservatives are often kind of slow or reluctant to acknowledge racism. a lot of people from the left feel that's the case. not that they're racist themselves, but they're anti anti dish racism. perhaps because they're courting southern conservative votes, courting people who believe in flying the confederate flag. some don't want to keep it up in south carolina. so they don't want to look like they're siding with people who are strong krit tirks of racism. it seems he fell into that traditional republican strategy and then realized his advisers realized he had to pull himself out. >> nan hayworth this was in south carolina in 2000 that jeb's brother, george w. bush

really came down with people who wanted to keep flying with the confederate flag. there's that bush family history there. how do you interpret how jeb bush handled this yesterday, did it seem to you he was reluctant to get into the racial aspect of this? >> i thought governor bush handled it in a very statesman-like way. i thought his initial response reflected a profound sense that he has about how -- of course that was an act of evil and hatred, whether motivated by racism certainly -- i think it was usable not to jump to that conclusion. as the day unfolded it became clear this young man had a fairly significant racist background, if you will. but he was statesman-like and he was recognizing rightly so the

extraordinary qualityies the faith of the people against whom this evil young man who does haven't a conscience committed. these people were so gracious and so incredibly inspiring. and i think governor bush was quite right to bring them to the forefront as well. >> the interesting thing is you showed the list of all the other people speaking too, ben carson governor christie. and they all went right to the religious angle. everything we know from this so far is he didn't kill them because they were christians. i don't know what his religious background is. >> they were at a religious event and these were people killed in a church. there's a reason to focus on that. >> i understand that. but to focus only on that and not take on the fact that we have racism in this country. this fellow was -- we don't know how he became a racist.

his family seems to be completely beside themself and upset with this. i spoke to somebody who knew the family in doing some reporting yesterday who said there was no indication. he didn't come from an environment of hatred or racism or anything. so we don't know how this came. but it gets to the issue, like why we do have -- whether it's latent racism or explicit racism in the country and whether we're going to acknowledge that and deal with it. >> nan, dave was saying what he's calling the mindset of the anti anti-racism on the right, in the republican party. is that something you see, something you feel this idea that it's not saying that republicans are racist or they harbor racial animus. it's saying they really don't like talking about race in saying race is a factor in anything? >> no. i certainly -- look i have not experienced that, nor witnessed that in my party, on the inside

of the republican house congress fence, i didn't see or hear any evidence of that. i think the challenge we have here is to assure that we address every issue that this hideous incident brings to the fore. there has rightly been a discussion started about whether or not the confederate flag should be flown over south carolina. although this young man, whatever he did, racism may have been a pretext for his violence. but let's not neglect the fact that this is clearly a very sick mind, and we have a serious issue with mental illness in this country to motivates people like this to do what they do. that, too, has to be addressed. >> it does seem there's room in the reactions here -- we're all

at a certain level reacting as human beings as well. when i look at this the racial aspect is obvious and undeniable. at the same time, you still sit there saying even allowing for the fact that this guy is a vicious racist. any human being to walk into a room and sit with people for an hour and then get up and do that that part -- i won't start saying i can't understand it eegt either. >> this is a psychopath he has no conscience. that's the fundamental lesion here. >> what's his plan? what's he trying to get out of it? even psychopaths sometimes have reasons and ideas. this seems to be particularly stunning. what christie said it's moral depravity, he would go in and do this. was it wasn't an impulse thing. he sat there for an hour and started killing people. it raises the question that the president was getting at the easy access to guns. what do we do about mental

illness, still not covered the way we deal with other illness. our medical system allows too many holes for people to fall through, and whether there is any -- the racism that does exist, whether it ends up empowering psychopaths in a way. you've got three levels of very profound problems here and whether we can deal with it as a society politically remains a question on all those three fronts. >> it is something we'll get into later in the show. for now, david and nan, thanks for being here in this segment. we will shift gears a bit in just a minute when we're joined by the man who led the u.s. military effort in afghanistan, general stanley mcchrystal is going to be here. first, we want to remember another victim in wednesday night's massacre reverend daniel lee simmons, the retired pastor of another church. he was the only victim to die at the hospital.

rev lend daniel l. simmons was 74 years old. yoplait greek 100. the protein-packed need something filling, taste bud loving, deliciously fruity, grab-and-go, take on the world with 100 calories, snack. yoplait greek 100. there are hundreds of reasons to snack on it.

moderate to severe crohn's disease is tough but i've managed. except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. and when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. and that in clinical studies the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb

hepatitis b, are prone to infections or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips' fiber good gummies plus energy support. it's a new fiber supplement that helps support regularity and includes b vitamins to help convert food to energy. mmmmm, these are good! nice work, phillips! the tasty side of fiber, from phillips'. you show up. you stay up. you listen. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family. and when it's time to plan for your family's future we're here for you. we're legalzoom, and for over 10 years we've helped families just like yours with wills and living trusts. so when you're ready start with us. doing the right thing has never been easier. legalzoom. legal help is here.

dethe pentagon announcing it carried out 22 more air strikes yesterday targeting isis strongholds in syria and iraq. last week president obama ordering the deployment of 450 more u.s. troops to iraq tasked with advising iraqi forces working to retark territory lost to another jihadist terror group, isis. the house voting on wednesday to keep u.s. troops in eye lack and syria amid debate over congressional authorization of military force. meanwhile on the campaign trail, republican presidential hopefuls regularly describing in an obama foreign policy they say is in crisis. >> the obama-clinton-kerry team is leaving a legacy of crises uncon tand violence unopposed, enemies unnamed, friends undefended and alliances

unraveling. >> the deterioration of our physical and ideological strength has led to a world far more dangerous than when president obama ended office. >> to defeat and defend an enemy like isil you have to have the capability and the will. president obama is not providing the capability and he doesn't have the will. >> add it all up and we as a nation are still fighting al qaeda, still debating u.s. military efforts abroad, now nearly 14 years after the terror group first entered the american consciousness with the 9/11 attacks. with the added challenge of taking on isis and the other decentralized terror networks rushing to fill the power vacuum in iraq and syria. joining me is retired general stanley mcchrystal at the helm of the u.s. effort in iraq and afghanistan for seven years. he details the lessons learned in his book "team of teams." general, thank you for taking a few minutes and joining us this

morning. i appreciate it. i want to start with you, we have this news in the last few weeks of more u.s. troops being sent to iraq to train, maybe to recruit more sunnis into the effort, the headline defense secretary ash carter was testifying before the house armed services committee on wednesday. he said the goal of getting 24,000 -- recruiting 24,000 new members of the iraqi security forces iraqis to fight for their own country, that goal had fallen short by 17,000. instead of 24,000 they got 7,000. carter said we simply haven't received enough recruits. i read that general, as a sign -- we're always talking about when will the iraqis step up. it begs the question to me are they ever going to step up. >> it's hard to say. on the eve of the 2003 entry into iraq there had been an effort on the part of the u.s. to create a free iraqi forces organization.

at the end of the day, it ended up being like 76 people. when you're trying to do this without the political will in the group you're working with it's very difficult. >> this increase supposedly tied to this recruitment failure, do you thinkadvisers military trainers sending them into the heart of sunni country to recruit more sunnis. based on what you're saying do you think that will have any effect? >> i personally think it's a necessary step. if we look at what threat isis actually represents it's not an existential threat to the world. it's frightening and frustrating and it's dangerous. but it's not existential. it doesn't force amongst us the same kind of unity and over-resolve that we need. inside iraq we hope that occurs. the problem is we can't solve this problem, we can't drop enough bombs. we don't want to put enough

troops on the ground. eventually it's going to have to be solved by syrians, iraqi, gulf state members, turks and whatnot. those people who live in the region are going to have to come together, build the capability, get enough unity and alignment on the objectives so they can defeat isil or have serious problems. the problem is less isil than it is the chaos in the region right now. >> ought ultimately you're saying it has to be solved by the locals but the u.s. has a role in this. what is the message to the american people in terms of what is it that we should be prepared for over the next few years, maybe decade or however long it is what is it we should be prepared for in terms of an american commitment to allow that to happen? >> in my personal opinion we have to stay engaged in the region and have to show resolve in that engagement. we have to be patient because it's going to take a long time. if, for example, we poured in military force and were able to

crush isil i don't think we crush the idea. we would crush the force initially. if we pulled out, it would likely come back. the only fix for this region is to get some kind of a political framework that is legitimate enough and credible enough to the people in the region that they're willing to work in that direction. that's absent right now. we'll have to take a leadership role in doing that. it's going to be heavily diplomatic, painful because it will take a long time shaping this and there won't be a quick military solution to it. we can't pretend the region doesn't exist, turn our back and say because the last 15 years have been painful, that we don't want to be engaged. the world is just too small for anyone to do that right now. >> general stanley mcchrystal author of "team of teams." thank you for joining us. appreciate it. >> thank you. still ahead, we'll go back to south carolina and the symbol of the past that many hope will no longer be a part of that

state's future. but first, a possible break in the search for two convicted killers who have been on the loose for two weeks now. that is next. stay with us.sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh we've got at least 20 minutes lets do this (baby crying in the background) first kid okay, we've got at least 20 minutes, lets do this by their second kid, every mom is an expert and more likely to choose luvs than first time moms and luvs with nightlock offer our largest absorbent area ever they lock away wetness better than huggies, even overnight live, learn and get luvs ugh! heartburn! no one burns on my watch! try alka-seltzer heartburn reliefchews. they work fast and don't taste chalky. mmm...amazing. i have heartburn. alka-seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief.

♪

new clues this morning in the search for two convicted murderers who escaped from a new york state prison near the canadian border now nearly two full weeks ago. police say someone in steuben county, new york, near the pennsylvania border may have spotted two men who fit the description of fugitives david sweat and richard matt. witnesses say they saw two men walking near a rail yard in the town of irwin a week ago. next day, two men were spotted in the nearby town of lindley. sweat and matt escaped from the clinton correctional facility two weeks ago. meanwhile late last night nbc news learned a corrections officer has been placed on administrative leave as part of the investigation. authorities aren't saying who

that officer is or why he or she is on leave. still ahead, as we continue this saturday morning, we'll return to charleston to ask why the confederate flag still flies in that state. stay with us. start the interview with a firm handshake. ay,no! don't do that! try new head & shoulders instant relief. it cools on contact, and also keeps you 100% flake free. try new head & shoulders instant relief. for cooling relief in a snap. when you're not confident you have complete visibility into your business,

it can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. with innovative solutions that connect machines and people... to keep your internet of things in-sync, in real-time. leaving you free to focus on what matters most. when heartburn comes creeping up on you... fight back with relief so smooth... ...it's fast. tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue ...and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. ♪ tum, tum tum tum...♪ smoothies! only from tums. unbelievable! toenail fungus? seriously? smash it with jublia! jublia is a prescription medicine proven to treat toenail fungus. use jublia as instructed by your doctor. look at the footwork! most common side effects include ingrown toenail, application site redness, itching, swelling burning or stinging, blisters, and

pain. smash it! make the call and ask your doctor if jublia is right for you. new larger size now available. welcome to fort green sheets. welcome to castle bravestorm. it's full of cool stuff, like... my trusty bow. and free of stuff i don't like. we only eat chex cereal. no artificial flavors, and it's gluten-free. mom, brian threw a ball in the house! benny's the oldest dog in the shelter. he needed help all day so i adopted him. when my back pain flared up, we both felt it. i tried tylenol but it was 6 pills a day. with aleve it's just two pills, all day. now i'm back! aleve. all day strong. ♪ ♪ hp instant ink can save you up to 50% on ink delivered to your door so print all you want and never run out. plans start at $2.99 a month. right now,

buy an eligible printer and get three months of free ink with hp instant ink. available at participating retailers. the most affordable way to print. hp instant ink. charleston and the confederate flag. thanks for staying with us this saturday morning as we continue. charleston south carolina church shooting renewed the con federal flag debate in that state. should it be taken down for good? more on that in just a moment. plus the many different things that the 2016 presidential hopefuls are saying about that massacre that is ahead. we'll be talking to the man who has interviewed more of the republican field than anybody else. that and much much more is coming up this hour.

but we begin in south carolina where the family of the gunman who killed nine people inside a charleston church is reaching out to the victim. dylann roof's family releasing a statement late yesterday that reads in part our thoughts and prayers are with the families of those killed this week. we have all been touched by the moving words from the victims' families offering god's forgiveness and love in the face of such horrible suffering. that forgiveness came during dylann roof's first court appearance yesterday, an appearance in which the victim's loved ones could address roof directly through a video conference link. roof was formally charged with nine counts of murder plus a weapons charge. nbc's mark potter joins us from charleston. mark, what did you find out? >> reporter: i found out in talking to actually several of his friends that there are mixed feelings about him, you get mixed accounts. the one you're referring to is a young man named christian

skribben who is after karn american, said he was a friend of dylann roof. he said he doesn't think he was a racist he had black friends. others say they heard him make racist comments and talk about the separation of races. those are some of the differences we're hearing about. this young man, mr. skrifen said he became weary after roof bought a handgun in april. he talked about a night when they were driving around when roof predicted or announced that he was going to go shoot up a local college. let's hear a little bit from that conversation. >> we were all out here drinking one night. he said he was going to the college to shoot the college up. >> when you heard that he had been implicated in the shooting at the church what did you think? >> that he really -- he was serious and he really actually went and down all this stuff he said he was going to do and he wasn't joking.

>> scrivon said this occurred a week and a half ago on a wednesday and roof predicted he was going to do this or announced he was going to do the shooting at the college the next wednesday. that wednesday was the day he went and fired into the church and killed the nine people according to authorities. that's what shook everybody up that there was warning. one of the moms of one of the friends told me yesterday that the moral of this story that people who hear these sort of statements being made who hear threatening statements need to take responsibility and report that to someone who can do something about it. she said unfortunately this was something that maybe could have been prevented. nobody believed him, they didn't think he was serious, they didn't think it could actually happen. they weren't concerned enough to remove his gun from him one night when people had been drinking, but he got it back. as fate would have it he was involved in this horrible tragedy here in charleston.

so people are saying we've got to pay attention when we get word that something like this might be up, any indication needs to be investigated. >> all right, nbc's mark potter in south carolina thank you for that. appreciate it. on all in with krigs hayes, south carolina republican state representative named doug brandon said he plans to introduce legislation to remove the confederate flag from the state capitol once and for all. take a listen. >> i had a friend die wednesday night for no reason other than he was a black man. senator pinckney was an incredible human being. i don't want to talk politics. but i'm going to introduce the bill for that reason. i'm not a politician tonight. but i do have access and i will introduce that bill in december. i will pre file that bill in

december before we go back into session. >> again, that's state representative doug brannon in south carolina saying he will introduce the bill in december when the legislature is back in session to remove the flag from the statehouse grounds in south carolina. meanwhile the controversial flag still flying above the south carolina state capitol this morning. the american flag and south carolina state flag flying at half staff, but the con federal flag flying nearby not at half staff. governor nikki haley ordering them to fly at half staff. the south carolina government needs to sign off on any movement of the con federal flag. a spokesperson for the president saying they believe the flag belongs in a museum a statement he made in 2007 before he became president. jon stewart adding his thoughts on thursday night's daily show.

>> nine people were shot in a black church by a white guy who hated them who wanted to start some kind of civil war. the con fedfederate flag flies over south carolina and the roads are named for confederate generals and the white guy is the one who feels like his country is being taken away from him. >> joining us now, gentleman mel buoy staff writer at "slate," former congressman ben jones, also an actor on the show "the dukes of hazard." congressman jones, let me start with you, i know your position in the past on this issue has been that you favor retaining the confederate flag as a symbol of heritage. i'm wondering if in the wake of the events this week and in the wake of what you heard from doug brannon in south carolina has that changed your thinking on this issue at all? >> not really.

it's far more nuanced and complexed than that to me steve. i'm glad the representative is bringing this thing. that discussion is needed and it needs to be a sober and thoughtful and compassionate bridge building conversation among southerners, black and white of good hearts and caring and sensitivity to each other. i'm glad it's coming up in december. we shouldn't be having this fight right now. i don't think we should be making any of these hot political issues in the aftermath of this terrible unspeakable tragedy. this was a disturbed young man who wanted to make a name for himself. i think he had been drugging a lot. got online with all these white supremacist websites and things. their flag is the american flag the clanklan and all those people. when they use the symbol of the

confederate battle flag they desecrate it if my opinion. i've spent my life in the south fighting for civil rights for everybody and understanding between the races. i won't stop doing that. but there's 70 million americans who are also descendant from the confederacy. many of us see it in a much different context. we don't like it being used in those ways. the flag was taken down and i've seen reporting this week that says the stars and bars flies atop the capitol in south carolina. it doesn't. it's not the stars and bars by the way, which was the official -- first official flag of the confederacy states the government flag. the battle flag is the -- the confederate battle flag the st. andrews cross is what we're talking about. it's a symbol that means different things to different people in different context. we must be sensitive to everybody's feelings about it and understand that. it means something very different. let me finish quickly if i may,

steve. to say, it now flies on the grounds. that will be taken up soberly and thoughtfully in december by the south carolina legislature. but it's not the flag that caused this act. we must make that clear. as a member of the sons of confederate veterans everybody in my family fought for the south. >> i want to get jamelle bouie in here to respond to that. first let me just to put some context to this i want to include polling numbers that i think might sur priefz people american opinions on the con federal flag. it's an online survey conducted by survey monkey. it's a fairly reputable way of collecting data. it says 49% see it as a symbol of racism 49% as a symbol of southern pride. a split right down the middle. jamelle, ben jones is making the heritage argument saying 70 million americans trace their

ancestry through the confederacy. this means something important to them. what's your response to what you just heard? >> films and books and movies can have multiple interpretations, but i think historical symbols and i think particularly standards for armies tended -- their meanings are rooted in the histories behind them. the confederacy was founded on the preservation and expansion of slavery. the confederate army fought to defend thoepzse ideals. while i have no problem and in some ways respect people and honor their ancestors and their valor, we can't just erase history. the history of the confederate battle flag is part of the history of the confederacy. the history of the confederacy is a political movement to preserve slavery. that flag that battle flag and the confederate flag the flag of the csa itself went into hibernation for quite a while.

two times when it came back out of hibernation and back into public view were doing reconstruction when anti-reconstruction ex-confederates used terrorism to try to disenfranchise newly enfranchised blacks and during the civil rights movement when supporters of jim crow blak brought the flag back out to show their opposition to civil rights. the flag's position in the south carolina capitol, for example, only shows up in 1962. it's possible that it showed up because in 1962 a group of white south carolynians wanted to show their heritage. my sense is it's there as a symbol of defiance. on wednesday nine people were killed by a young man who was steeped in white supreme sift imagery, had the flags of apartheid states on his clothing, who had confederate

symbols on his vehicle, who expressed his desire to start a race war, who talked about black people in the same exact terms as confederate leaders did. regardless of whether or not something is your hair raj -- feel free to honor your heritage however you like in your private space, but the south carolina capitol is a public space and it is insulting, frankly, to have that flag fly when nine people were killed by a person expressing the ideals that that flag flew for 150 years ago, 100 years ago and 50 years ago. >> so ben jones, i'll get you to respond to that. the idea that -- ultimately at a certain level a confederate flag and slavery, they're inseparable. you can talk about the descendants of the confederacy. there are the descendants of slavery in south carolina. ultimately how can a state honor

a symbol that means slavery to descendants of slaves? >> i've always had a problem with the state use of any symbol. you know the american flag -- slavery was brought here in 1619, the american flag flew over slavery in every state in the early unions and in all the colonies which became states there was slavery there. slave ri was a northern enterprise that built wall street built american capitalism. the profits went north, the cotton went north to the mills. so it's a more complex issue to us. i remember lincoln's first inaugural address where he said slavery is constitutionally protected. i won't touch it and suggested that the corwin amendment which had been passed in the buchanan administration be supported which would have protected slavery perpetually. that's where lincoln was in his first inaugural address.

a year and a half later he says to horace greeley, greeley, if i could save the union with slavery, i would do it. if i could slave it without slavery, i dwould that too. it's about union. the slavery issue is horrible horrible, but it's the american sin, not the southern sin. with a government thing, i'm not sure -- should have been taken down from the top of the capitol and it was placed as a memorial to the confederacy. next to it i think -- if we're going to do anything on state grounds, there should be a memorial to those who suffered in slavery. i think that -- dr. king said let us -- the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners sit together -- that was his dream, to sit together at the table of brotherhood. these horrible incidents like this inflame these passions again. confederate flags aren't going to disappear, they simply

aren't. those of us who honor our ancestors understand why they did what they did in their time. but to blame slavery on the south is a historical khan far. >> jamelle, go ahead and respond to what yu just heard. >> first it's absolutely true the american flag flew over slavery. the american flag the symbol of the united states also has multi-al other means. the united states at its best is a country dedicated to the ideal that all men are created equal, that representative government is the way we ought to run our country. confederacy doesn't have that dual meaning. the confederacy as expressed by jefferson davis, every state that secede friday the union was founded in the expansion of slavery. the second thing, it's also true that slavery wasn't a southern innovation. it's certainly true that slavery profited the entire nation.

but that is a separate issue than the states that left the united states to preserve that institution. it's sort of a limit disingenuous to bring that up to say the confederate flag doesn't mean that. no, it does. this is what the history s. again, people can honor their ancestors however they like in their homes, in their communities. but the idea that we have to give public sanction to it the idea that black southerners like myself to have consent to this symbol being flown on public land i think is ridiculous. we wouldn't do that for any other symbol like the confederate flag. so i don't see why we ought to do that for the confederate flag unless we want to start flying all sorts of crazy symbols. >> jamelle bouie from "slate," former congressman ben jones

from georgia. really appreciated that conversation we just had there. much more to come this hour from charleston. we'll also be venturing into the strange, strange world of the 2016 race for president this week. first, continuing our look at some of the victims of and night's mass shooting at emanuel ame. tywanza sanders died standing between the shooter and his elderly aunt suzie jackson. he stepped in between them and tried to talk the young man into putting down the gun. suzie jackson would also die in the shooting as would her cousin ethel lance. it should be remembered that mr. sanders tried to save them both along with everyone else inside that church. he graduated last year from allen university and was working as a barber hoping to go to graduate school. he was 26 years old.

what do you think of when you think of the united states postal service? exactly. that's what pushes us to deliver smarter simpler faster sleeker earlier fresher harder farther quicker and yeah even on sundays. what's next? we'll show you.

what about a "win-win-win"? pick up the limited edition metallic droid turbo by motorola. water-repellent. up to 48-hour battery life. that's your first "win." plus, it's only on verizon. the #1 network. there's your next "win." now for final "win." get $250 when you trade in any smartphone. and get 10 gigs of data for $80 a month and $15 per line. the win-win-win. hurry in, offer ends june 30th. and save without settling. only on verizon. kids are expensive. so i'm always looking to get more for my money. that's why i switched from u-verse to xfinity. they have the most free on demand tv shows and movies on all my devices. it's perfect for me because my kids are costing me a fortune.

i'm going to cabo! ♪ don't settle for u-verse. xfinity is perfect for people who want more entertainment for their money.

my father donald j. trump. ♪ ♪ ♪ i see a woman in the night with a baby in her hands ♪ >> in order to become president, you don't just enter the race with the singer of the song the singer will soon ask you to stop playing at you're vents, there are concrete measures you have to take if you want to run for president, steps you need to check off of a pro verbal to-do list including a financial disclosure report you're supposed to file within 30 days of formally becoming a candidate. donald trump made it seem like he completed this step releasing a one-page summary showing assets of about $9 billion. that's a little peek of the

complete documentation that's actually required. the mandatory full disclosure is how we found out, for instance about hillary clinton's paid speeches that cause sod much controversy this year also how marco rubio raided his ira retirement account. it's where all the potential good stuff is usually buried. we're still waiting on that document from donnell trump, and we might be waiting for a long time because after 30 days are up he will still be allowed to final a 45-day postponement. he can also file a second postponement after that, starting the clock on another 45 days for a total of 90 days basically three months. donald trup saystrump says he is going to do that. until he does it's conceivable three debates will have come and gone. how do we treat donald trump in the meantime? do we say he's a serious candidate. back at the table, msnbc contributor david corn and former republican congresswoman

nan hayworth. i think this is a dilemma for people covering politics thinking about politics. i looked at the "new york daily news" cover when donald trump announced his candidacy, they put a picture of a clown, this is a sideshow. why are you talking about this. one thing people say is donald trump will never put out the detailed financial disclosure. if he's in the debates, he's making noise, someone else is not getting on the stage because of it. >> we come on the shows and people like you, steve, often ask us to make predictions. i always thought trump wouldn't run because he has to reveal all these internal finances. we know from biographies and investigations in the past he never seems to have as much money as he says he does. that seems to be a point of pride for him. if he gets high enough and close enough in the debates, he will he continue to run while giving out financial disclosure information. he, i assume has a good shot of

making it above that level to get into debates. >> right now he would be in the debates, yes. >> if that's the case why not give him coverage as opposed to carly fiorina, lindsey graham john kasich who are all in single digits. he has as much a claim on coverage at least as anybody else. >> as a republican, how do you feel about it? >> she's delighted about it. >> democrats this week were lighting up the idea of donald trump running. do you just -- are you like just look the other way. >> mr. trump has now put his hat in the ring. by the way he's not bragging about being rich david. let's merricklet's make that clear. he's not bragging about it. it's just fact. forbes had an interesting dissection of preliminaries that have become available, and one of the bones of contention regarding finances is how much he values the trump brand or the

trump name very suggssus the way some others might. nonetheless, he's out there now. he's made a lot of statements. now he has to back them up. and this is an opportunity -- >> but he doesn't. that's the thing. >> he can buy himself three months basically. >> but he is within a field, he is within a field of very serious thoughtful republican presidential contenders like carly fiorina, governor bush governor walker. >> this is where i think the problem is for the republican field with him in the race. he will say things -- like he said at his speech, he will dump on mexicans or say we've got to get tough on china. when he starts doing this on the debate stage and he's playing to the -- sort of the dem goccic crowd he'll force carly fiorina an jeb bush and others to respond to him and his extreme

remarks. on the debate stage you can't say i have nothing to say about that. >> i think this is a great opportunity -- we have to look at it that way. we have to -- we are -- as republicans we have this challenge. let's rise to it. we now have an opportunity for all the other folks who are going to be on that stage or who aspire to be on that stage to say, look, here are the serious policies that we actually have to develop. here are the serious issues and here is how we tackle them. >> there's the potential dilemma for republicans. right now all the other folks on the stage, there's a cap of ten. if trump is on there right now, governor of ohio kasic, not on the stage. thanks for right now to our panel, david corn and nan hayworth. appreciate you joining us this morning. still ahead, president obama restarts the conversation on gun laws. and next the pope makes history. stay with us.

you wouldn't take medicine without checking the side effects. hey honey. huh. the good news is my hypertension is gone. so why would you invest without checking brokercheck? check your broker with brokercheck. yoplait greek 100. the protein-packed need something filling, taste bud loving, deliciously fruity, grab-and-go, take on the world with 100 calories, snack. yoplait greek 100. there are hundreds of reasons to snack on it. benny's the oldest dog in the shelter. he needed help all day so i adopted him. when my back pain flared up, we both felt it. i tried tylenol but it was 6 pills a day. with aleve it's just two pills, all day. now i'm back! aleve. all day strong.

pope tran sis sending shock waves across the globe calling for dramatic action to combat climate change the first pope in history for a top level catholic teaching on the subject of the environment. in his 192-page en cyclical pope francis saying human activity is responsible for cooling the planet also calling for those that will protect those from rising temperatures the world's poor. president obama among the many democrats to welcome the pope's for ray into climate change politics. with not quite as much excitement across the aisle. >> i hope i'm not going to get castigated for saying this by my priests back home but i don't get economic policy from my bishops or my cardinals or my pope. >> but how will the pope's climate change manifesto impact rank and file catholics

will they rally behind the poach and force politicians to take more aggressive action to slow the planet's warming. white evangelical protestants are less likely than the general public to say global warming is occurring. break down the polling data and it's political afterfiliation that seem to shape people's opinions about climate change. what impact will he have on the rank and file? sister simone campbell director of network which lobbies on issues of catholic social justice. thank you for joining us. the pope obviously the leader of the catholic church, catholics a huge voting bloc. he issues this en cyclical. what do you expect the response to be from rank and file catholics in america?

>> i think what we're seeing is a lot of enthusiasm. i think one thing that really needs to be seen is what the pope says is there's the intersection of all the issues. we don't have just a single crisis of environment and a separate crisis of economics and income and wealth disparate in our globe. they're a united crisis. we need to work on them together. and seeing the unity both of the people of the earth as being in one common home and the unity of the crises means we're explaining the common sense experience of ordinary everyday folks. so i think folks are going to take this and run with it. >> let me put some numbers up here a pew research center poll opinion of u.s. catholics on climate change 71% say it's occurring, 47% say caused by humans 48% say it's aa very serious problem. if you ask if they have a positive opinion of their pope

86% favorable, 4% unfavorable. what we cited in the intro says how much political affiliation, ideology drives people's opinions of things. is there a risk here for the pope at all on this issue and maybe if he speaks out on other issues, in making him seem like a political figure maybe a character of the left a figure of the left and conservatives and republicans in the catholic church will say i'm not so sure about this guy because he's saying things i disagree with. >> here is the challenge. whenever any one of us is called to conversion, we resist it. we know in the spiritual life the edge -- that resistance is the edge of spiritual growth. we know the pope has this interrelated view of creation. so he says that we've got to value human life but human life seen in the context of the environment. we're not to dominate the earth, we're to collaborate with the earth, to work in an ecosystem

which also supports the catholic church's position on abortion because the value of how many an life is so sacred so important. that will make the left nervous while the right gets nervous at this fact that we owe each other a duty of care for our planet and we are equally responsible. so i call him an equal opportunity an noir. but the important thing is we can work on these issues in a variety of places perspectives. we work on the economics more than we do on the environment. but what the pope says is because we work on the economics, we're healing the rift in our society, like we were talking about in charleston that's really important and it heals our environment also. it's a both-and not an either-or. >> sister simone campbell thank you for coming on. appreciate that. >> thank you. still ahead, which gop candidates will make the cut for the first debate. poll numbers just out giving us a new top ten. next, will the shootings in south carolina finally lead to tougher gun laws or a debate

over that, or will history repeat itself? audible safety beeping audible safety beeping audible safety beeping the nissan rogue with safety shield technologies. the only thing left to fear is you imagination. nissan. innovation that excites. head & shoulders with old spice. america's number one male dandruff brand. keeping you 100% flake-free. guaranteed. while smelling 100% handsome. take a whiff. head & shoulders with old spice. [ female announcer ] it balances you... it fills you with energy... and it gives you what you are looking for to live a more natural life. in a convenient two bar pack. this is nature valley. nature at its most delicious.

kids are expensive. so i'm always looking to get more for my money. that's why i switched from u-verse to xfinity. they have the most free on demand tv shows and movies on all my devices. it's perfect for me because my kids are costing me a fortune. i'm going to cabo! ♪ don't settle for u-verse. xfinity is perfect for people who want more entertainment for their money.

when it comes to good nutrition...i'm no expert. that would be my daughter -- hi dad. she's a dietitian. and back when i wasn't eating right, she got me drinking boost. it's got a great taste and it helps give me the nutrition i was missing. helping me stay more like me. [ female announcer ] boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a delicious taste. grandpa! [ female announcer ] stay strong,

stay active with boost. we have to feel a sense of urgency. ultimately congress will follow the people and we have to stop being confused about this. at some point as a country, we have to reckon with what happens. it is not good enough simply to show sympathy. >> president obama last night once again calling for stricter gun laws in the wake of the charleston shooting. a similar call he made 2 1/2 years ago after a gunman killed 20 young children and six adults in newtown, connecticut. the gun control bill drafted after that died in the senate defeated by democrats in red states up for re-election. >> all in all this was a pretty shameful day for washington.

this effort is not over. i want to make it clear to the american people we can still bring about meaningful changes that reduce gun violence so long as the american people don't give up on it. >> two years later america is coping now with yet another mass shooting, and the question of whether the response this time can be any different. joined now by bob herbert, distinguished senior fellow at dema. if the opposite of what we expect to happen is happening here and that is with every mass shooting you might expect the momentum for some kind of legislative change on guns is going to increase. oh this is terrible this is even worse. now we really need to do something. i'm starting to wonder if the opposite is happening, with every one we're becoming more numb to it and it's less likely there's going to be a response. >> i think the latter is the case. i don't think that we're going to make any meaningful steps toward meaningful gun control

any time soon. but i don't think we should give up on the fight. people who want to have -- who want to restrict access to guns should continue the fight. i've seen so many generational changes. i think that's what's going to be required. i think you're going to get another generation of politicians. it takes a long time. you're going to get another generation of voters. that takes a while. i think it's an important fight because it's such a horrendous tragic issue. i think that what happens is maybe you bring more people -- you don't get legislative changes with these terrible tragedies, but you bring more people to the issue. that's what i hope. i hope there's some kind of momentum from the bottom up rather than the top down. >> you're talking a big picture -- >> i'll tell you how long term i'm talking about. i've seen the generational changes we've seen in cigarette chokingshoek smoking, for example or the kind of changes with regards to gay rights. these things took years and years and decades in some cases.

that's what i think is going to be required. but i think the issue is so important that it's necessary to put in that kind of an effort. >> is it worth it given the futility -- in the wake of newtown, if congress couldn't pass anything in the wake of that is it even worth it for a member of congress right now who says i want stricter gun laws to put legislation forward? >> i think they should. the president makes his comments frequently about the need for gun control legislation. but he doesn't put the weight of the white house behind it because he sees it as a losing issue. i'm sure that it is. but i wish that he would put the weight there. that again, you're building a foundation and the president could be an important part of that foundation. there's another point that i think about as well in the short shorter term. in the shorter term we have to address the idea of violence in this country. this country is so insanely violent that we need a conversation about how to

address important issues non-violently, that a bullet is not the answer to one's problems, whether we're talking about personal interactions or whether we're talking about big issues like war and peace. so i would like to see that kind of a conversation get started as well. >> so it can proceed maybe on parallel tracks. bob herbert from demos, thank you. when we return the man who has interviewed more of the 2016 field than anyone else. first, continuing our look at the victims of wednesday night's massacre at emanuel ame church. cynthia hurd is being remembered as the glue that held everyone in her family together a big sister who stepped into the role of family might arc after her mother died. she loved to read so much she became a librarian. her husband who serves in the her chant marines is expected back in south carolina this weekend from saudi arabia. cynthia hurd was 54 years old.

welcome to fort green sheets. welcome to castle bravestorm. it's full of cool stuff, like... my trusty bow.

and free of stuff i don't like. we only eat chex cereal. no artificial flavors, and it's gluten-free. mom, brian threw a ball in the house! i've smoked a lot and quit a lot but ended up nowhere. now i use this. the nicoderm cq patch, with unique extended release technology helps prevent the urge to smoke all day. i want this time to be my last time. that's why i choose nicoderm cq. moderate to severe crohn's disease is tough but i've managed. except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. and when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. and that in clinical studies the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems,

serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb hepatitis b, are prone to infections or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. when you travel, we help you make all kinds of connections. connections you almost miss. and ones you never thought you'd make. we help connect where you are. to places you never thought you'd go. this, is why we travel. and why we continue to create new technology to connect you to the people and places that matter.

we've already talked this hour about the very real possibility that donald trump will be at a podium when ten republican candidates -- that's the cap right now -- ten candidates hit the debate stage later this summer for the first time. there's also a chance that ben carson could be up there as well. a new poll from monmouth university showing carson with a very slight lead in the republican field. monmouth is a polling outlet that could prove crucial to figuring out who makes the cut for the first republican debate now only six weeks away. it's those candidates who finish in the top ten of the average of the five most recent polls who are going to make it onto this stage. so as we did at this time last week, let's take a look at the big board over here to see where the candidates stand right now. just to give you a sense of this, right now, if you average the five most recent polls together this is your top ten. these are the candidates who would make the cut. you can see domd trump would be among them. these candidates would be on that stage. what does that mean for who is

not on the stage? these are the candidates or possible candidates people say they're interested in running who would not be in that top ten right now. we can focus a little closer right around the bubble around the cut line. the last ones in first ones out. what you see is the average for donald trump, we did this last week. one new poll this week he didn't do quite as well. his average score fell by .4 of 1%. look at what we're talking about. the difference between being in the debate and not being in the debate is the difference between 3.2%, that's rick perry, sanitorium at 2.2%. sanitorium would not be in. perry would be in. john kasich, the governor of ohio would not be in the debate sitting in 13th place in the polls. but john kasich has not announced candidacy yet. assuming he doesn't get a lot of attention, press coverage there's a chance he'll get a

bump. maybe that will move him into the top ten, knock somebody else out of the top ten. we'll be looking at this every week week. right now, christie trump, perry are the lucky ones that make it. sanitorium, fee rana kasic, they're out. this is very fluid over the next few weeks. to talk more ability the situation i want to bring in hu hewitt a conservative radio host who is going to participate in the second republican presidential debate in september, also author of a new book "the queen: the epic ambition of hillary and the coming of a second clinton era." he joins us now. thank you for taking a few moments with us this morning. you'll be on the stage for the second republican debate later this year similar criteria top ten candidates polling average, that sort of thing. i wonder in general, these rules, we've never seen these before in debates. they're causing some controversy. do you think it's fair to cap the number at ten? >> the rights reforms on the debate for the party and how the networks handle the debates supp

for grabs to the networks. i don't think the party is going to stand by and make sure they're unfair. i have think you'll see a lot of fluidity at the reagan library debate where i'm debates, a first debate and a second debate based upon size of stage. what i think matters, is it's so early, as i write about in "the queen" we won't know who has the momentum until very late. anyone with the exception of peter king who is not a serious candidate could get momentum and could win a lot of delegates in february. anyone could get the nomination if you look at the irish booking odds jeb bush is a 7-1 favorite to win the presidency marco rubio is 7-2, hillary clinton is the prohibitive favorite at 10-11. that's why i wrote "the queen" because i don't want her to win and she's very much positioned to take advantage of the splintered republican field. but the rights of reform will bring everything together by cleveland next summer. >> there's been objections from

republicans in the early states. in new hampshire the traditional lead-off primary state sending a letter to the republican national committee two weeks ago saying this will threaten our traditional role. it's supposed to be new hampshire republicans who thin the field, who look at the field and say these are the certificate yuz ones these aren't. there is a new letter from 140 south carolina republicans, they wroent to fox news to rnc chairman raince priebus. in the nominating process, is there an issue here about, we always say that the shift may be taking place from state-based primaries to a national primary. is that what these debate rules, what we're seeing play out here? it's no longer so much about the individual states as it is about how the candidates do in national polls? >> you know steve, what the reason raince priebus is probably going to be remembered as the most effective republican national committee chairman in 50 years is because of these rules. they brought order out of chaos. we know it's going to go iowa

new hampshire, south carolina and nevada. we know on march 1st mike huckabee is going to get a big pop, he's going to do very well in arkansas. we know that john kasich is going to win ohio on march 15th. the ohio legislature moved it back to march 15th because that will be a winner take all primary. the same day as florida. what priebus brought was order and predictability so people like you and i can analyze not the date on which events are going to happen but who is participating. i had carly fiorina in my studio this past monday. she's going to be on a lot of stages and a lot of people are watching carly and saying thumb's up. donald trump will join me from denver where i'm doing the western conservative summit. i think they're all going to be all over talk radio. you mentioned in my intro, i've interviewed every one of these candidates, dr. carson amazing story, inspiring man. rand paul has the highest floor, maybe the lowest ceiling right

now, but the highest floor of any republican candidate. i think as ted cruz pointed out today, we could be headed to an open convention in cleveland and as i write in "the queen" ted cruz to beat hillary clinton or lose 43 states. as i write in "the queen" marco rubio is hillary clinton's worst nightmare. jeb bush has of aability plus. i think the rnc is to be commended for not making the process the subject. but in fact the people the subject. on the crucial issue of hillary's server and national security, it will go very well. >> my thanks to radio host hugh hewitt thank you for coming on. a look at what son the schedule in south carolina today. that is next. ♪ mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys ♪ ♪ don't let'em pick guitars and drive them old trucks

♪ boys? ♪ mamas, don't let your babies...♪ stop less. go more. the passat tdi clean diesel with up to 814 hwy miles per tank. hurry in and you can get 0% apr plus a one-thousand dollar volkswagen credit bonus on 2015 passat tdi clean diesel models. part of the appeal on soloing big walls to me is to be in this amazing place that hardly anybody gets to go. if someone browses my website i hope they get a sense of the beauty of the places i get to go climbing. i'm alex honnold and this is my squarespace. you know the importance of heart health. you watch your diet, exercise... and may take an omega 3 supplement but it's the ingredients inside that really matter for heart health. not all omega-3 supplements are the same. introducing bayer pro ultra omega-3 from the heart health experts at bayer. with two times the concentration of epa and dha as the leading omega-3 supplement. plus it's the

only brand with progel technology proven to reduce fish burps. new bayer pro ultra omega-3. look for savings in this sunday's newspaper. hi, my name is cliff. i'm tom. my name is eric. and i help make beneful. i help make beneful. i help make beneful. after working here, there's no other food i'd feed my pets. each ingredient is tested by our own quality insurance people. i see all the quality data everything that i need to know that it's good for my dog. there's a standard. and then there's a purina standard. i make it and i feed my dog beneful. i feel proud because i know that i helped make that bag of dog food sitting on that shelf.

a busy weekend ahead in south carolina. among the events scheduled. emmanuel ame's first sunday services since the shooting. more on that tomorrow morning. also much more straight ahead from charleston melissa harris-perry is coming up next we'll be joined tomorrow by south carolina state representative doug brandon, he's the republican who says he is going to introduce legislation to take down the confederate flag from the south carolina capitol. we look forward to talking to talking to him about that. until then, have a great saturday.

great job! okay! here you go. good catch! alright, now for the best part. ooh, let's get those in the bowl. these are way too good to waste, right? [ male announcer ] share what you love with who you love. kellogg's frosted flakes. they're gr-r-reat! now? can i at least put my shoes on? if your bladder is calling the shots ... you may have a medical condition called overactive bladder ... ...or oab you've got to be kidding me. i've had enough! it's time to talk to the doctor. ask your doctor how myrbetriq may help treat... ...oab symptoms of urgency frequency, and leakage. which may mean fewer trips to the bathroom. myrbetriq (mirabegron) may increase your blood pressure. myrbetriq may increase your chances... ...of not being able to empty your bladder. tell your doctor right away if you have... ...trouble emptying your bladder or have a weak urine stream. myrbetriq may affect...

...or be affected by other medications... ...so tell your doctor about all the medicines you take. before taking myrbetriq, tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems. common side effects include increased blood pressure, common cold symptoms, urinary tract infection, and headache. take charge by talking to your doctor about your oab symptoms and myrbetriq. find out if you can get your first prescription at no cost by visiting myrbetriq.com audible safety beeping audible safety beeping audible safety beeping the nissan rogue with safety shield technologies. the only thing left to fear is you imagination. nissan. innovation that excites. yoplait greek 100. the protein-packed need something filling, taste bud loving, deliciously fruity, grab-and-go,

take on the world with 100 calories, snack. yoplait greek 100. there are hundreds of reasons to snack on it. this morning, my question -- what country is this? where nine black people are murdered in their church as they pray.