it. my fear now is whether history will have a problem making sense on what we do in response to it. we can never go back to that night and turn it around but the days after, how we deal with the underlying issues and the legal system will that make sense when people look back on how we behaved after the this massacre? thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton "hardball" starts right now. the right decision let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews. in washington it took a few days but the tragedy in charleston turned some heads, perhaps some hearts as well. this afternoon the governor and both u.s. senators of south

carolina all republicans all called for bringing down the confederate flag ridding it from the capital. no one was more impressive than nikki haley, she mounted it with dignity, courage and charm. >> today we are here in a moment of unity in our state without ill will to say it's time to move the flag from the capital grounds. [ applause ] >> something important happened there, the cause, the defiant resistance to federal authority, triumph yankee troops and fearful imagine black helicopters with bumps aside but the black and white alike at the spectacle of racial hatred that showed its face in the emanuel church and yes, it is political. some leaders in the republican party, mitt romney jeb bush

michael steele made positions clear up front. other haves takes have taken time to share politics. whatever is going on the decision on who to lead this country, is in this country getting serious this june. the fact jeb bush is coming up the fact hillary clinton is riding high says the same about democrats. we'll learn on both sides and enjoy them but both sides are headed to the business not of politics louisiana style as entertainment as a dazzling dance through a summer but the business of picking leaders that can make us a better country by grabbing the reigns and doing it like nikki haley did. flanked by a bipartisan group of politicians including senators governor nikki haley said it's

time to remove the confed red flag from the property of the state house. let's watch. >> for those who wish to show respect for the flag on their private property no one will stand in your way. but the state house is different and the events of this past week call upon us to look at this in a different way. my hope is removing a symbol that deviets us we can move on and honor the nine blessed souls in heaven. we're not going to allow this symbol to divide us anymore. the fact people are using it as a sign of hate is something we cannot stand. the fact that it causes pain to so many is enough to move it from the capital grounds. >> the news was greeted by cheers including by a son of south carolina eugene robinson. >> having grown up there, i'm stunned to have seen that what

we saw. it was a hell of a speech. i would on many political issues disagree on nikki haley but as an american i had to be proud of her today, performance, of what she said the way she said it, it was pitch perfect. >> the way she said it. major benjamin thank you for joining us. so much politics i've been in it for 40 some years. most of the time it's go into usual battle stations everyone does what they are to do. i thought your state looked good. >> i couldn't agree more chris, i want to thank our governor. she was flanked on her right by congressman clayburn and tim scott. it showed people exactly what south carolina is. we are good people, smart people, compassion et people and so often, we forget that symbol haves power, and that rhetoric,

the redhetoric on tv and online that these things help drive our public conversation in a way that does not necessarily represent the people of our state very fairly. the governor did a great job today and so important because you hear calls and cat calls from the left and right, why not sooner. let me tell you what, it took some courage to step up and do what they did. it took courage from both parties, including independence far left and right but they stood together and showed there was one south carolina, state motto is doing spar row, spar row why we breathe hope and showed the this is an important first step toward reconsillation. >> proud to have an honorary degree makes me proud of south carolina as a visitor honored there. let me ask you about what it means to you.

when you saw that flag at your state capital, the town you represent as mayor and saw it flying up there every morning and see it on the license plate of a car driving by pickup truck, what does that flag say to you personally? >> chris, you've been to south carolina. every street you go down if you're heading north or south, it's named after someone from the revolutionary war or civil war. this year as mayor of colombia first african american mayor of colombia, we commemorated the 150th anniversary of the burning of colombia. i got my start as president of the usc chapter, university of south carolina chapter marching on the state capital, marching on the sands of myrtle beach to bring the confederate battle flag down tonight say this is something that's so many people and i'm so thankful to the leaders here today but so important to recognize that so

many people, so many have gone on to glory have given the time and energy and resources over the last 55 years, some names we will never here and some who thank god they are still with us like kay patternson who worked to make this day happen. it's increatebly moving to me we're making a step in the right direction and we're trying to make sure we build a south carolina, that our children are going to inherit it. i'm very proud of my state this day, this is a very important step in the right direction. the legislature still has to act and then hopefully after this issue is behind us, this majorishmajor ish major issue, we can talk about other important issues how to education children and get people -- >> good luck to you. >> uh-huh. >> congratulations and i mean for the role you're playing in the bidding of a better state. one of the very most prominent republicans to speak out about removing the flag was mitt

romney. he tweeted take down the confederate flag to many it's a symbol of racial hatred. remove it now. he did that a couple days ago. today former new york governor made an equally direct call. here it is. this is before what happened with the governor. >> my position is simple the flag should go from the state capital grounds, period. >> jeb bush was clear in his attitude and statement and said my position to address the confederal flag is clear. we acted moving it from the state grounds to the museum where it belonged following a period of mourning about how south carolina should move forward. i'm confident they will do the right thing. john kasich said if i were a citizen of south carolina i would be for taking it down while other republicans dodged the question. here they are. >> people of south carolina dealt with this issue before. they have founded bipartisan

consensus over a decade ago moving the flag to a new location and i have confidence to deal with that issue again. it's important to let the people of south carolina move forward. they shouldn't have a bunch of outsiders going in and them them what to do. >> the federal government doesn't have a role in this. >> you're a candidate for president. do you have a position on the this at all? >> i'm not a south carolinaen. >> those running for president, everyone is baited with this question somehow that has anything to do whatsoever with running for president and my position is it most certainly does not. >> are you comfortable displaying the confederate battle flag in public? >> i don't personally display it anywhere. it's not an issue for me so that's an issue for the people of south carolina. >> senator ted cruz rick perry, carly also said they would leave it up to the people of south carolina. you know we're going right now, here they are.

okay we just lost the prompter for some reason. i'll go into my guest. i'm fascinated by this top pick because it's a time when you ask a politician who are you? >> yeah. >> and they give you an answer on these questions. it's a war shock test and give you different answers and i was so impressed with the guys that said yes this has to go down. >> this is a historic moment. governor haley did the right thing. there is a question of follow three. we got to get two-thirds of the state house to vote for this. will she use political capital -- >> she's got it. optimism. i think she will. >> i think she'll do it. >> what wants to be a diehard on this? who wants to fight for the flag? >> i hope not. they need to ask the question about the mind set in that state holding on to that flag. is she going to have conversations to get s tos to get

to the bottom. >> i lived through the kennedy assassination, i knew it was a left winger who did it. most felt so bad it changed a lot of hearts for the same time. lbj didn't have a tough campaign because nobody wanted to fight against the kennedy legacy at that point nobody. >> i agree, look, i wasn't surprised by governor haley. i was down in charlton from the night it happened and she walked into the hotel and went to the second floor and met with the families. they were screaming, crying i saw her face when she left that room. i knew that flag was coming down. >> she was crying. >> history changes politics. >> history changes politics. this is the moment you see walker rubio, presidential campaigns try to control events but it's really about the things you can't control that tell us the most. >> listening to answers, they felt like states' rights answers which is why we got to this problem at the same place. >> rubio says we're

unconfident unconfident, huckabee said they were baited. this isn't about the nearry evolution governor and one reason they don't like liberals they don't want to ask basic questions like why do you think the earth began? all we're asking is what do think about the flag? he says we're being baited. what did huckabee mean by that? he doesn't like serious questions. >> they want to have a conservative questions and run the primary but for them events happen and you're forced to respond. >> that may help some squeak through a primary but they want someone with a gut instinct. >> it's talk turkey. who are they appealing to? >> john mccain said he was afraid of going up against those who see it as a symbol of history. >> they are appealing. >> the flag went up in '62,

1962. >> italians put it up. >> put up there in the middle of the civil rights movement. not the old cause of robert e. lee and generals it wasn't about courage. i was about opposing civil rights. >> not just appealing to people that like the confederal flag but people who hold on to the a confederate mind set. it's a dark under belly of the political strategy and i think it will come out and people will see it for what it is. >> will it work this year? >> maybe in the primaries. >> do you thick -- >> i hope it won't. >> i saw a party in the polling we just did we'll talk about when nbc and wall street journal, the fact bush is not running and looking good and ran paul who i look in some grounds, libertarian is fading. i think hillary clinton is running strong. >> clinton got out in front of this and had republicans waiting to see how it unfolded that told us a lot. >> bill clinton.

>> hillary clinton went out there and gave the speech on race. >> voting rights. >> more about that. thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. >> thank you robert costa. police may be closing in on the killers that broke out of new york prison they found dna in the cabin broken into 20 miles from the prison. me details on the manhunt. looks like they getting close. the race for 2016 good news for jeb bush and better much better for hillary clinton. with a tight race, both partyies are getting ahead of both prospects. the shocking number of sexual assaults on college campuses in the country. new york senator wants to do something about it. she's going to be here. finally, let me finish with my 35 year stroke of luck. you can figure that one out. this is "hardball" the place for politics. hundred thirty-four thousand three hundred eleven people in this city.

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we have developed evidence that the suspects may have spent time in a cabin in this area. we have law enforcement officers from around the state and around the nation here today searching for more evidence. >> welcome back to "hardball." a new lead for david sweat and richard matt in upstate new york. multiple sources confirm the dna from both prisoners was found in a hunting cabin over the weekend in owl's head in franklin county. the owner said an individual fled an individual fled once he arrived. among recovered items were bloody socks and prison-issued underwear. the search centers in that area 20 miles west of the correctional facility they

escaped from. capture seems close, i say that as an armature. indicated the evidence was a significant development in the search. >> we have recovered specific items from that cabin, we have forwarded them to the appropriate laboratories and reached conclusive determination but not prepared to release the evidence at this time so we do not jeopardize the continuity of the investigation. >> this is a confirmed lead for us. it's generated a massive law enforcement response snbc stephanie gas k and jonathan.

stephanie, we got a lot of stuff, dna by both of them a jug of water, bloody sock which tells you they are going through hell there, peanut butter jar. how do we know how this looks and how far could they have gotten in 48 hours since saturday, not very far? >> reporter: not far if they are on foot. they had two weeks, 2,000 tips and law enforcement says every tip we'll track down. if you imagine 1,999 weren't great, this was comparable in comparison. not only a place they actually were outside the prison but also potentially a day if that cabin owner did indeed see one trying to flee. it is a significant development for the police on the ground here and you can see that as they all descend upon this small town. >> jonathan, you project their ability to move how far they move in 48 hours, assuming that

gentleman escaping was one or two of them. can you project how far they go now given how far they can go in two weeks, if they went 20 miles in two weeks, four miles in two days or what can you tell? >> what we can predict is the pace at which they potentially could walk three miles an hour you know, that's fast over rough terrain but let's say they have a railroad track or locate a power line cleared and those run for thousands of miles. so if they can clip along it two to three miles an hour, i mean do the math. that's pretty good ways. i have a feeling these guys had probably been held up in this cabin or they may actually find other cabins they have been held up in because i've been saying all along, if they didn't have help on the outside, they had to turn to crime to support themselves because they have to have flat food,ood, water and shelter so they broke into a place. that's what always gives these guys away.

often it's the orange jump suits but the gift that the prison system here gave to them were green jump suits, like a camouflage outfit. >> let me get back to stephanie. what do you think authorities behind this adrenaline two weeks without food and have peanut butter and water, that's pretty basic protein. >> it's interesting. this area is littered with hunting cabins and hunting season is two, three, maybe four months out of the year and the rest of the time those places are totally empty and a lot of times, the hunter wills store canned food and all sorts of things in the cabins. if they knew they were there and it's pretty easy to find them. there are lots of these access trails that lead up to these cabins, if they knew sweat sweat and matt they were there, they probably knew they could stay there for a couple days and food and shelter being what they need to figure out immediately once they broke out. >> stephanie, what is the

strategy now? i heart about circles, what do you know about catching them in a dragnet right now? >> we've -- >> let me go to jonathan. go ahead stephanie. >> the last couple hours have been significantly restricted. >> jonathan, tell me about the strategy they are usually employed by authorities in manhunts. >> the ideal strategy you were talking about earlier would be where you have a quick reaction force. once they get a tip, the that they can quickly move you know 20 to 40 officers rapidly to this location so they can start searching out but the problem with that is that you're constantly trying to catch up with the guys as they move forward. you also want to be able to deploy people you know, ofto a period of point where they could have walked and search in and set up a blocking force around that with local authorities and

where people that live in that area but i'm not real sure how that's working here or not because i've heard conflicting reports, they are throwing everything they have at certain big laegeads and started the point of origin. that's a mistake. >> lastly, i want to go to stephanie. how optimistic having gotten real, this isn't guess, this is dna, actually location of the guys 48 hours ago. >> you see energized law enforcement but they were like that last week as well and it's difficult to tell. i tracked the case in pennsylvania for awhile and there was that same exuberance along the hot leads that turned out to be nothing. you have a professional force out here and they certainly seemed to be energized by this information. >> dna is tough stuff to beat. thank you stephanie gosk and

john. one in five women say they have been sexual assaulted on campus. senator kierston of new york is joining us on "hardball" the place for politics. moderate to severe crohn's disease is tough but i've managed. except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. and when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. and that in clinical studies the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief.

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reduced risk of stroke... plus less major bleeding. ask your doctor... if eliquis is right for you. >> welcome back to "hardball." one in five college women say they were sexual assaulted in the past four years according to the washington post and kizer family foundation that includes everything from forced touching of a sexual nature to rape. the poll found that very few victims reported to police or to a university authority. critics say many colleges are more concerned with trying to preserve their image than holding perpetrators accountable. kirsten of new york state is outspoken and sponsoring legislation to sponsor how colleges deal with the problem and penalize schools that mishandle the cases.

i spoke with the senator about it. i guess everybody who is a father and sent a young daughter to college is stricken by this news. one in five women who sign up as freshman are likely in fact do get assaulted sexually. >> these statistics and issue is alarming and what we need to do is flip the incentives on the institutions because right now it's not worth the while to report cases. we're trying to create transparency by having a talk about the campus if they have ever been raped, what happened? did they report? if not what happened? we've increased fines to actually hold them accountable when not reporting the crimes or adjudicating them properly. we want to professionalize the process. we have a lot of training and confidential trainer on campus

so there is a uniform process at every school for how the cases are reviewed. we basically need to flip the incentives on the schools so they can begin to get it right. >> a lot of flathathers try to encourage their daughters to go to the a more conservative campus. what is your experience about that? are some schools better at handling this misbehavior, crime and others not? >> i haven't seen a campus that gets it right or has historically whether a big campus, small, public or private, this are issues of sexual violence on the campuses. we have to give schools tools to have a better subpoena better process. we need to be able to support survivors so they know what their options are and have communications with law enforcement so there is a plan in place if someone does want to go to law enforcement and go the criminal route. those are lacking.

if we professionalize the system and have this survey you as a parent will have more information about which schools are safe, which schools have a better climate and which schools take this issue seriously. >> how do you and this is a tricky question because i'm sure there are cases of dishonest claims but maybe a small percentage, very small, but how do you protect the innocent on both sides of the cases? is there a way to keep it confidential? >> yes. >> i don't want to get too concerned about that because if it's an actual felony we're talking about, that's the way it works. a person is allowed to charge a person with a felony and that's the way things work in our society. >> the reason there is a dual system so you can have a way to handle the case if the survivor doesn't feel comfortable going through a criminal trial. that could take a year or two or three. it will change her life and time at college so sometimes survey sore just wants a review process to have an opportunity to either have her perpetrator be expelled

from school or if there is insufficient evidence and he can't be held responsible to have accommodations. only a school can change her class schedule to make sure she's not sitting next to him in science and have a dorm where she's safe. if you professionalize the process, there is more process for those accused and survivors. you need to have fairness there and we make sure in our bill we have done that. >> you've done great work with the military. is there a difference or the same kind of dangerous condition? >> there is a lot of similarities, both are closed systems where there is no accountability and both systems desperately need to be professionalized. in the military commanders making the decisions, not a trained prosecutor, if that commander isn't knowledgeable or look at evidence the decision might be wrong. that decision needs to be made by a trained military prosecutor

with no skin in the game and doesn't know the victim or perpetrator. in the college system, universities that often want to shove this under the rug. it's more valuable to have no reporting or press than to see that justice is done. in both instances, the ensen incentives are wrong. >> how does it look for the bipartisan support for the bill becoming law and bringing this law and order to the campus? >> i'm very optimistic. we got a bipartisan group of senators from the most ideal conservative and i think we'll have a vote and we'll be able to pass the bill. we need to work hard and we need to really amplify the ad va kits. so they are speaking out and eloquent thing their stories fox

passion anytime passionally, that's what is making the difference, the bodness and speaking truth to power and these young women are inspiring. they certainly inspired me to action and i think they will be successful in the quest. >> great having you on. a great cause you're fighting there. thanks for coming on. >> thanks chris, thank you. up next we may be looking at a hilary jeb race after year. we got the new nba news polling and while things are looking up for jeb, they are looking better for hilary. you're watching "hardball" the place for politics.

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>> i'm richard lui. a high-profile isis leader was

killed in iraq. he was involved in the 2012 attack in benghazi. walter has been recovered from the mountains in new mexico. he set up for a high-class weekend and never returned. he served under president george w. bush as chef. storms barrelling across the midwest damaging homes and downing trees. hundreds of flights camncelled at o'hare. now back to "hardball." welcome bat to "hardball" both parties coalaround both parties. hillary clinton is dominating the 2016 democratic field and leads bernie sanders by 60

points 6-0 points. 90% of democrats can see themselves voting for her. turning to the republican field. 75% of republicans can see themselves voting for jeb. that's up by 26 points since march where only 49% said they could see themselves voting for him. leading the crowded field with 22% followed by scott walker mark rubio, ben carson mike huckabee and hypothetical matchups hillary clinton leads jub bush and marco rubio by ten and scott walker by 14 although most don't know what scott walker looks like. joining the round table tonight, my guests. let me go to you ann guerin you're out there on the road, big crowd in denver.

ed schultz was jumping up and down. those crowds were fun. when people get town and asked by pollsters in a scientific poll they say hilary. >> yeah there is a difference between i think the enthusiasm factor that we're seeing people turning out for bernie because he's interesting, fun. >> is it "the weekend with bernie." [ laughter ] >> it is real and something that hilary can completely discount. when people get down to answering the question could you see yourself voting for her, more than 90% say yes. >> that's the question. i'll go to perry on this because i think i know your answer. you know we're in doubt her bee sting of hilary, she's very effective. i don't know if they can stand reading her, she did make a gutsy decision. but she's also making the joke and it's a tough nasty joke that she's really trying to pretend

she's elizabeth warren and a person of the left. is hilary making a mistake being like bernie instead of being her senator-led self. >> that's who she's always been and talked -- >> trade. >> the one issue of trade, i think is what is she for? this whole thing about i need to get more details or understand more, going to hurt her in the primary. she's going to end the primary but she doesn't want to build the idea she won't say what she's for or against. this trade thing went on long enough. we have enough information. >> okay. voting and taking position somebody said to me is a statement of character but not always. in other words, it shows we have guts to do it. is the this an issue to go down on the sword? that's a tough question. if she goes against trump and the gang does she believe in free trade enough to take on that fight? >> the thing is --

>> i mean i think she's made mistakes in the past like the iraq war. >> there are a lot of substantial arguments against it. >> her where is she? >> the question is we don't know what she is. >> historically, she's profree trade. >> you can be profree trade and not like this agreement because of very particular -- >> how do you fix it? >> you can say she doesn't have to be consistent with the profree trade position in the past and be in favor. >> is this going to hurt her politically? >> no. >> i show in the polls nothing is hurting her. >> they are banking clearly on this being over by the time anybody casts a vote. >> the republicans think they have hilary in a achilles hill position with the server at her house. average voters my age sometimes or older don't know what a server is. i guess i can be told. i don't want to think about what a server is.

why would anybody vote on the -- think of somebody saying you know, i was for her until this server issue arousalse. >> what is she hiding? there is nothing. >> it doesn't matter. >> she had her e-mails and it doesn't -- i don't know what is in there. we don't know. >> they can be really bad because we don't know. then we just keep banging this drum. it's about getting their voters out and keeping data alive so if something else comes along, they can say see, we told. >> it could be a political business she's hiding. why do you close the door at night? to hide something? no, to close the door. it could be she wants to talk to the governor of nebraska or or senator. how is the kid doing at sanford? that kind of conversation. >> certainly a fair amount of the e-mail she destroyed or had destroyed is probably of that nature. what the republicans are getting at here is that there is a

question mark and to the extent they can keep it going, they have something of an issue. i think most of the people listening and for whom that resonates would never consider voting for hillary clinton anyway. >> i think hilary's questions are usually about you and they make them up on who they are and a successful woman and their times and ideology. it's not details. 67% of those surveyed just now said they would be satisfied with jeb and hilary if they were the nominees of the two parties. 4% of voters were concerned about political dynasties. i was among the lowest of the top concerns for those being polled. isn't that interesting? people always said i don't like negative campaigning and yet it's the negative ad they remember. they don't like big money in politics it's the big money that pays for the ads. >> they don't necessarily vote for candidates that rail against big-money politics. when a poster asks you something

and you have an answer you think you should give as opposed to how things favor. >> and you don't know if you're a better person to say. >> no one likes negative adds but they work. >> what about on the dynasty question, i think this poll is not showing us enough. if you're a democrat what are your choices. if hillary clinton is running against michelle obama and elizabeth warn that might change the response. jeb bush right now is running and people only know who marco rubio and scott walker are. people i talk to say really in a america bush and clinton again? people are more concerned about particular he republicans because they don't like jeb bush very much. >> for a reason, not because he's a bush. >> he's a moderate. >> i like the fact one of the number one things they say about bush is he's a liberal. they don't mean that with love. up next, more on the potential

pitfall for hillary clinton, trade. this is "hardball" a place for politics. thank you. no, nancy, thank you. kibbles 'n bits. because every bit matters. song: rachel platten "fight song" ♪ two million, four hundred thirty-four thousand three hundred eleven people in this city. and only one me. ♪ i'll take those odds. ♪ be unstoppable. the all-new 2015 ford edge.

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real and action needs to be made. he's making the rounds the holy father. he'll be right back. i have type 2 diabetes. i started with pills. and now i take a long-acting insulin at night. i take mine in the morning. i was trying to eat right, stay active.

but i wasn't reaching my a1c goal anymore. man: my doctor says diabetes changes over time. it gets harder to control blood sugar spikes after i eat and get to goal. my doctor added novolog® at mealtime for additional control. now i know. novolog® is a fast-acting, injectable insulin and it works together with my long-acting insulin. proven effective. the mealtime insulin doctors prescribe most. available in flexpen®. vo: novolog® is used to control high blood sugar in adults and children with diabetes. take novolog® as directed. eat a meal within 5 to 10 minutes after injection. check your blood sugar levels. do not take novolog® if your blood sugar is too low or you're allergic to any of its ingredients. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medicines you take. ask your doctor about alcohol use, operating machinery, or driving. the most common side effect is low blood sugar. symptoms may include dizziness, sweating, confusion, and headache. severe low blood sugar can be life-threatening. other common side effects include low potassium in your blood and injection site reactions.

get medical help right away if you experience trouble with breathing serious allergic reactions like swelling of your face tongue, or throat, sweating, extreme drowsiness dizziness, or confusion. now i know about novolog®. taken by millions since 2001. vo: ask your health care provider about adding novolog®. it can help provide the additional control you may need. we're back with the round-table. david and darren and perry, of course. it's fascinating what of course is the pope is talking about stuff a matters right now through our politics. the gun issue is the hottest american issue. the pope says you know we shouldn't even be making them. that's a pretty strong statement. >> absolutely. that's the pope saying we shouldn't be making them is stronger than any american politician is ever going to say. but it's really interesting. you had obama and then you had clinton a couple days later both

making pretty strong statements in favor of more gun control than we currently have. hillary saying the president doesn't get enough credit for what he's trying to do. she didn't say how she would get past the impasse that he's had in congress. there's just -- it's -- the issue has been dead in the water. >> checking out -- they always say -- i understand guns don't kill people people kill people with guns. but there is an argument to be made, people not guns, let's check out the people buying guns. that would be a reasonable thing to go to and say, no you can't be insane, you can't be a murderer, i'm going to kill my wife and have a gun. there has to be some rules. >> the republican party wants a waiting period for any woman who wants an abortion yet they hate waiting periods for guns and think try to fight those things. they try to oh we. >> who needs a gun that fast? >> that's the question. who needs a gun that fast? they always come up with arguments. someone who is in danger you know it's the good guy or good gal with a gun myth.

what the pope said was really very interesting. he wasn't talking about gun control, he was talking about a gun as an act of violence. >> how many guns do we have in this country right now? >> 700 million. >> more guns than people. like new zealanders and sheep. >> one thing to take on hillary clinton or barack obama. >> the way jeb did other day. >> dismiss him completely. >> he's out of his lane. >> yeah, well, the core challenge is hillary's and obama's ideas are not enough. we have 300 million guns. gun buyback program or something that's bigger. it's not totally clear that background checks can stop you if your gun isn't given to you by a family member or friend. guns are not always just sold. there are other ways to get guns. the solution has to be bigger than what they're talking about now. i don't think proposal as all as far as i can tell. if she comes out with a strong proposal during the campaign i would be surprised.

>> how about a supreme court with common sense? how about a supreme court that says, you know you can't have guns for all occasions. the right to bear arms is related to the right to militia. we're going back to the way it was written. as written, you know? literal interpretation. they seem to ignore that militia thing. >> bill clinton tried when he was president to ban a certain type of gun. you know, the oh we. >> worked for a while. >> there were a lot of loopholes in it me passed that bill. he passed that bill. >> there's one reason why they lost to congress. >> the ways of dealing with ammunition. >> lost to congress. >> there are things you can do that won't solve the problem but mar gyps at least and you come up. >> lost congress in health care too. if they really care about the gun issue they may push it beyond -- >> i'm not sure she'll ever get this. when you walk into the voting booth come november and you have to make that big decision, you probably made it weeks before but the gun owner is thinking

about his gun as he goes in to volt. the person who believes in gun control is thinking about unemployment rate racial right, women's rights, other things that are on their mind before they get to gun. >> enthusiasm you know is in the favor of a very small minority of people but who care about it so much that it scares the politicians. i mean you're right. they are so passionate. if you are for gun rights it is not your top issue. it's number one, two, and three. >> great question. why did hillary clinton sort of dodge the trade issue? which i understand because of the unions who are democrat and support the democrats and yet not dodge the gun issue? what are the politics? those are hotter issue. >> until she comes up with a gun control plan i don't know that she's embraced the gun issue. i don't know what her plan is. she was more forthright because most of the democratic party is for gun control. most of the democratic party is not for -- >> two-thirds of the republican party is gun owners. she's not running for the

republican nomination. >> precisely. >> and not getting those votes anyway. >> i like how you finish my sentence. thank you, david. when we return let me finish tonight with my 3-year stroke of luck. that's what i'm calling it. you're watching "hard ball," a place for politics. where you also find her. ♪ a romantic fumble at this romantic chateau ... leads to these fine humans. who you take to this eco-lodge ... to get seriously close to nature. then you check in with her at this tropical paradise. before soaring over this castle resort with your father-in-law. who finally seems to like you. life can be like that when you get it booking right. booking.com booking.yeah! if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis like me...

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let me finish tonight with my family celebration. yesterday june 21st was the first day of summer. it was father's day. it was also our 35th wedding

anniversary. 35. of all the breaks in my life and there have been a number meeting and finding a way to kathleen cunningham's heart was at the top because she is the top. when we met i was working in the back room of the white house running for someone else. kathy was writing for channel 7. here also was someone else. she was also work for someone else. i was a back room guy in politics. she was a news producer. when i tell people what i learned about marriage these years is about the common values. if you get them sticking together is easy. we agree on religion on children being important, on family being important, on trying to be nice. my great break in life is meeting someone like that spending my life with someone like that. kathy is my ambassador to people. living on my own, i don't think i would be living in such a large world. as i said, it was our 35st wedding anniversary yesterday. in my luck holds i will keep on doing what i'm doing here. michael, thomas caroline

sarah, julia, and brandon are, of course our joy. and that's "hard ball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. >> tonight on "all in" -- >> that's not the measure of whether racism still exist or not. >> president obama goes into the garage and sets the news media into a tizzy. >> the president of the united states using the" n" word. >> tonight, mark maron on his unguarded conversation with the president about race. >> racism we are not cured of. >> listening to naysayers. >> i ran the country from my couch for a couple years. >> a lot of people do. yeah. i hear from them all the time. >> and governing without fear. >> it's sort of like an athlete. you might slow down a little bit, you might not jump as high as you used to. >> right. >> but i know what i'm doing and i'm