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good morning. welcome to "morning joe." >> by the way, second place in new hampshire. >> it's worth mentioning. >> he's in second place in new hampshire. >> look at this. trump in second place in new hampshire. >> focusing on the wrong candidates. >> so jeb bush is 14%. donald trump at 11%. scott walker seven, carson. christie who may be announcing soon. rand paul 4%. let's go over to willie geist. what say you about this most shocking development that has the political world in titters? >> i say it's june of 2015.

i also sat margin of error is 4%. if you move that down, there are a lot of people clumped together. but donald trump, many people consider him to be a joke. >> yes. >> he's to be taken seriously. >> we have a whole political blog set up for. that before we get to the news i want the baby fwh thisin this video. >> how about the man? >> look at the baby. >> so cool. >> this guy -- what game is this? >> cubs-dodgers. >> i got my baby. i'm feeding him. >> excuse me. >> yeah. >> excuse me. come on. come on. >> awesome. >> but that's a man right there. >> he's feeding the baby. he's bottle feeding the baby with his left hand. >> yes. took it away from the first baseman. excuse me. hey, you know what gonzalez i would give you this billion except for the fact i don't see a baby in your hand. wow! >> that was fan interference.

whoa. >> well worth it. this guy, he is such a real man. he's the one you see eating bark off trees. >> probably needs to be burped after. but okay. all right. so that's nice. and we'll get into politics in just a moment. we're going to begin this morning in south carolina with a state legislature has moved to take up the debate over the confederate flag this summer. it could begin as early as next week. yesterday saw a demonstration on both sides outside the state hois. some calling for the flag's removal. others who want it to stay where it s but inside the chambers quiet. a moment of silence for state senator clemente pinckney who will lie in state today. and from the senate came a voice with a familiar name. state senator paul thurmond son of strom thurmond. >> i'm proud to be on the right side of history regarding the removal of this symbol of racism and bigotry from the state

house. but let it not satisfy us to stop there. justice by house is not justice. we must take down the confederate flag and take it down now. but if we stop, there we have cheated ourselves out of an opportunity to start a different conversation about healing in our state. i am ready. >> what started in columbia is spreading around the country. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell called for a statue of jefferson davis to be removed from the kentucky state house's rotunda, a move backed by both candidates for governor. governors in virginia aej north carolina want the flag off state license plates. and there's a push to take confederate flags off state house grounds in alabama. some of the nation's biggest retailers will stop telling merchandise, they will stop.

walmart, sears, target ebay and etsy. google will take confederate content off the shopping ads. valley valley forge will stop producing them. there are surges in sales online in stores like this one in alabama. so what do you make of it? i -- i can't believe we have to wait throughout summer to see if the flag is going to come down. it seems like it shouldn't be that hard. but at least there is a groundswell of this movement. >> yeah. seem to be moving very quickly in south carolina willie. >> and it's all different symbols. a bust of jefferson davis in the state of tennessee. the governor announces that should be moved out. i think there is acknowledgement that there are pieces of our history that can recognize but don't have to be honored because of their implications. >> the question is how far does it go? it starts with well shouldn't have a battle flag over a capitol because that's the

battle flag of the confederacy. and so that is a symbol of hatred s a bust jefferson davis a symbol of bigotry and hatred? if that is a bust of bigotry, then are they going to start dragging statues of robert e. lee out? you know? where does this end up? let's go to jonathan. a lot of developments yesterday. what is your take? >> i'm glad it's happening. i've written about this many many times. for me the confederate battle flag has always made me uncomfortable. i spent every summer until i was 12 in north carolina with my grandparents. and i would see it in places here and. there it's not that anybody told me anything about it. but, you know being a smart kid and reading history books and

things, i grew to understand what that flag meant. to me to other african-americans but also to southern whites. and, you know i know it's very hard language. personally speaking the confederate battle flag is no better than a swastika. it is a symbol of hate. it is a symbol of division. as we saw in that manifesto attributed to dylann roof a lot of people have glummed on to it as a symbol of hatred. horrifyingly dylann roof took it to the next level where nine people had to lose their lives because someone hated them so much that he went out seeking to kill them. but this is weird to say. the bright spot in all of this is that the entire nation is talking about this is talking

about the symbolism of that battle flag. but also south carolina after years of people demanding that the flag be taken down completely it's actually happening. when you have someone like a state senator paul thurmond saying what he said which is -- that is like the mirror the opposite of what i think his grandfather said back in the '50s and '60s it's an incredible time. >> we reached in the week near consensus about the confederate flag coming from both sides of the aisle. many republicans calling for removal. for you, i'm curious, where is the line? there are obviously many founding fathers own slaves. there are monuments to those men. where do we stop the movement to take the history away? >> that's a very good question. for me the confederacy is i

mean, come on they fought against the union. to me, it is treasonist. if he wants to go the step of removing statues of jefferson davis, of other people want to remove busts of jefferson davis that, is for them to decide. if they want to go there, go right ahead. you're not going to get any argument from me. for me though it's always been about the confederate battle flag. i haven't thought about anyone or anything beyond that. >> yeah. so this is the issue with businesses jumping in which i can appreciate when you hear that companies like walmart are deciding not to sell the confederate flag merchandise. but then i think it opens up a whole world of possibilities as to what else they should be selling. you know guns or swastikas which i guess can you get on amazon. >> yeah. you can. >> as joe just looked up. >> i'm checking and seeing. so it's nice of amazon to take

down postings but that is jumping -- >> of the confederate flag. >> it is a pr move or really a move towards trying to cut out symbols of hatred. that's what they have to look within. >> i think. so you bring up a good point. it starts here with confederate flag which is always the symbol of hay dread of hatred. now we're talking statues of historical figures. let's start with jefferson davis and then robert e. lee and then of course it goes to -- why doesn't i got to thomas jefferson? why not to george washington? owned slaves. it is going to be about the flag or it is going to be about everything else associated with a very bad part of our history? >> we'll talk more about this with bill kristol coming onboard. there is a certain commercial quality to some things like flags as opposed to statues. but certainly a swastika is a

symbol of hate. so if you're selling that and taking the confederate flag off your shelves, you're not really being anything but hypocritical. >> yeah. let's turn to upstate new york and owls head. investigators say this is the center of the manhunt for escaped prisoners richard matt and david sweat. law enforcement is combing the surrounding area on tuesday. that break comes as new information emerged about prison worker joyce mitchell and how she allegedly smuggled escape tools inside the prison's walls. she has pleaded not guilty to the charges. here's nbc's stephanie gosk with more. >> reporter: in this remote new york town police hope they're closing in. every tip could be the one that leads to david sweat and richard matt. >> it's difficult terrain. >> reporter: sources close to the investigation tell nbc news the convicts were caught by surprise in a remote hunting

cabin leaving food and underwear behind. more detail about the escape the da says prison worker joyce mitchell said she smuggled the convicts' tools hidden in ground beef. the correction's officer who has been put on administrative leave but not charged then delivered the packages to sweat and matt. palmer passed a polygraph test saying he didn't know he was handing over tools. a former inmate who knew sweat and matt isn't surprised by the plan. >> after a certain amount of time, they don't search you like that anymore. they don't really care. you're a familiar face. so they just let you through. >> reporter: this man worries they may be in his backyard. his hunting club is xwust five miles from the cabin where sweat and matt were hold up. >> it's unnerving to say the least. >> reporter: the camp is typical, good shelter, plenty of food food. hunting season is in the fall. the cabins are empty. >> how did they find out about a place like this? >> reporter: there is no

indication that sweat and matt are getting help. now discovered and on the run, surviving in the woods just got much more difficult. >> and that new information about joyce mitchell's alleged role in the escape comes as her husband who worked alongside her in the clinton correctional facilty is speaking out for the first time. here is lyle mitchell telling his side of the story to matt lauer in an nbc news exclusive. >> the instant you and your wife heard that richard matt and david sweat had escaped from clinton, what was her reaction and what was your reaction? >> i just couldn't believe it. her reaction she said they really escaped. and i left it at that. >> whether did you finally ask her point blank, face-to-face? >> that night going home. >> did you say did you help these two prisoners escape? >> i said how can it happen? she said -- she said i was scared. there is something else i should

tell you. i said what's that? she said their plan was they wanted to kill you. i said what? they wanted her to come pick them up. >> whether you stop and think about it now, lyle isn't it very likely that had you been in the back of that car and had she shown up in in a get away car that both of you would be dead right now? >> absolutely, 100%. >> and if she had gone in that car -- >> she would have been dead within a half hour i figure. she was the get away. they were going to kill her and all they want is that vehicle. >> yeah. you said that immediately, mika. when the first news came out that they were planning to kill the husband, you said no they weren't. they were never going to get to the husband. they were going to drive past a field, shoot her and dump her body and keep going with the car. >> later in the interview, mitchell said he wasn't sure yet if he would stand by his wife or testify against her. he is not been charged with anything and according to his lawyer has cooperated fully with authorities. so joining us now, retired chief

inspector for the u.s. marshals northeast region john cuff. john first of all, what's your gut on finding these guys? it's been a long time. it seems like they're getting warmer. is there a possibility they won't? >> well, this is a significant break for law enforcement. it's probably a break we needed. and i think though in short time they'll make a determination if they're still in that area. it's a difficult search area up there. they have difficult terrain. you have weather conditions going against you. but the most promising thing you is close the gap of two week manhunt base ond thed on the dna found in that cabin. you really can't say for certain how long that dna has been there. so could they have fled out of that cabin a week ago? anything is possible. couple it with the sighting of the tipster the other day that saw someone running from that cabin, that suggests that

there's a good probability it was one of those guys. >> we're komgcoming up on three weeks they escaped. you are surprised they made it this long on foot? gh not necessarily. this happened in other cases as well. you got challenges up. there you have the difficult terrain. these guys kind of went into it -- it appears they went into a tailspin when the get away car was not there. and it's somewhat supported by the fact you have both persons' dna in this cabin which indicates they were running together. hopefully they're still together. there is no suggestion that they split up at this point. they probably independent upon one another now until they get -- they're probably hunkered down into a hiding spot during the day time hours i would imagine. >> all right, john cuff thank you very much. >> now in a few hours, president obama is expected to announce a major shift in the country's long standing policy on

americans taken hostage overseas. he is expected to announce families will no longer face the threat of criminal prosecution if they try to pay ransoms. president obama is also expected to establish a new office that will communicate with both hostages' families and the government called "the hostage recovery fusion cell. the change comes after several american hostages were killed by isis and families including that of james foley complained of conflicting information from the white house. >> we never knew what they were doing. because they really didn't tell us. we had no idea if -- >> it was always you know your son's situation is the highest priority. we're doing everything we possibly k we can't tell you. we couldn't do nothing, you know? i mean if they weren't going to rescue them they couldn't get them home what do do you? leave your kid in jail to get beaten? no way. you know? >> so i think the hard part though is because we naively thought, you know our

government could take care of it and bring him home it delayed our efforts. we were very slow to get more active and realize well gee, we have to do something here. >> the white house also faced prison for exchanging prisoners for bowe bergdahl who has been charged with desertion. >> so many conflicts there. the families are so frustrated. so maybe -- let's bring in nbc news foreign correspondent. maybe this is going to take care of the problems. >> but how? >> but how are they really going to be involved with this? >> yeah. i think the question is going to come with time and action. those are the words of the family relatives who is quoted as saying it's not just about the findings of this hostage but what actions the u.s. go. takes going forward. there are a lot of questions to be answered. yes, it's good the government is

going to streamline the communication it has with family members. but at the same time, it also raises a lot of questions about, well once the actual hostage negotiations begin, to what extent is the american government involved? could there be a point of contact between the american government and let's say terrorist organizations who are demanding this ransom? would the united states have to negotiate with enemies or perhaps even through intermediaries that the united states does not necessarily look down upon favorably. i think there are a lot of questions. i think it's going to depend on how it's implemented. certainly for the family members who have been complaining that they were getting mixed signals from the u.s. government over the course of their kidnappings, i think this is going to be seen as a true test in the coming weeks and months. hopefully it won't ever happen. certainly there were concerns about the fbi whether the hostage fusion cell should be with the fbi should it be somewhere else? sometimes there was mixed messaging coming out of the state department to the families. so a lot remains to be answered. >> this is really complicated. on the one hand you want the

families to have the ability to do things that the government cannot do or will not do. but also does this in some ways encourage hostage tears? they know one way or another they're going to get their money from someone. >> what we've seen in the past in terms -- there is some empirical evidence for this given that europeans are long paying ransoms do not report an uptick of europeans being kidnapped. every situation is different. there are european journalists operating in these areas and they don't stisatistically report that there is an uptick because of ransoms. sometimes the opportunistic kidnappings in which people kidnap them at a low level, they sell them up to the terrorist organizations. they may not be isis or al qaeda who kidnaps the individuals, but because it's such a lucrative business, they're falling into the hands of politically mote vaeted groups where they could be returned back to the families if the countries and individuals

are willing to pay ransoms. >> all right. ayman, thank you very much. still ahead, events are drawing thousands of liberal supporters. >> massive. >> and not just in the northeast, across the country. but does he have enough support to topple the clinton machine? senator bernie sanders will be our guest on "morning joe." plus, we'll go live to columbia south carolina and speak with a state representative about the movement underway to remove the confederate bad will flag from state capital grounds. and in the wake of the charleston shootings, is there the political will in washington to bring back the debate on gun safety reform? senator pat toomey joins us. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back.

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so mika following up on your swastika question. we've gone to ebay and can you find a nazi german swastika. 24 karat gold plated coin.

you can see world war ii hitler nazi stamp. look at this multicolored stone art -- >> that's sweet they're not going to do the confederate flag. >> they're not going to do the confederate flag but they have swastikas for sale all over ebay. huh? that's interesting. >> yeah it's really interesting. i think it kind of just discounts -- let's get businesses out of this. >> business is a joke. with is now, mike barnicle and managing editor of "bloomberg politics" john heilman. >> heilman is here. >> let's keep going. >> the republican field looks set to expand again. a report in political he could says chris christie could announce his campaign as early as next week. christie finishes sixth in a new poll, the new hampshire primary, where donald trump rocketed to

second place after his high profile announcement. >> let me stop for one second. john heilman, a couple days ago that you and steve schmitt were saying don't -- >> david remnick was very upset. >> he was offended. and it was shocking and ghastly. just offended. >> he was very offended. i'm sorry, david. maybe i came on too strong. >> that whole day he acted like he smelled something bad on set and perhaps he did. but you and steve schmitt said that in manhattan and washington, d.c. would make a mistake in underestimating donald trump. here we have him second place in new hampshire. what is driving that? >> look he's always been a better, more popular -- >> name recognition. >> he is a more popular candidate in new hampshire than iowa. there is that streak of as we all know of stubborn independents in new hampshire

and people who -- an outsider candidates have better chances up there. as we said that day, you don't want to overestimate him or underestimate him. he's not going to be the president of the united states. but he'll be a factor. again, he is for many many people the country a symbol of great success and achievement in money. he is a celebrity. he has high name recognition. i don't say that to discount it. most people don't know who the republicans are. pretty much everybody in new hampshire knows who donald trump is. and are there 10% or 12% who will after his announcement he got, yes. he's a factor. >> are they saying we know who he is? i'm going to say this is the one? what is -- >> i would say, look early polls at this early stage in the race, they have a lot to do with name recognition for anybody. the candidates with higher name recognition do better than those with lower name recognition. and there are people who like

trump, as we said that day, he has this populous fight the power kind of message. pat buchanan won with a message that is not that different for the message that donald trump is broadcasting now. >> a lot like that message, you have people from a distance that don't follow politics closely. these washington politicians have screwed everything up. here's a successful business guy. he's got a big business in manhattan and across the world. he can't do any worse. and that's just sort of an instinct. for people who don't sit and read "the new york times" every day or sit and watch three hours of "morning joe" every day. >> there is always, again, the appetite for an outsider candidate, especially one with business predentials in the country stretching back to ross perot when he won 19% in the general election has always been there. en that is part of why trump is not to be discounted. he's not going to be the republican nominee or president of the united states. but why he is going to be a factor in this race. >> yeah. >> you know i got an e-mail

from a really you know, a good friend of "morning joe" family. he was so upset about our trump interview and why you were so mean with hillary clinton? if hillary clinton came on the set, she would get the same interview. we're open. we want to hear what the candidates have to same time we gave him a full chance to which we would give her as well. it's not about having some awful fight on the set. i don't agree with a lot of what donald trump says. but since he officially announced, i wanted to hear him on the issues. the same would go for her. so there is no difference. >> then there is bobby agenda aljendal. >> we have to stop being the stupid party. it's time for a new republican party that talks like adults. >> that is bobby jindal in 2013,

months after mitt romney lost the election. >> we have to compete for every single vote. 47% and the 53% and by the way, any other combination that adds up to 100%. >> reporter: jindal was 36 when elected governor of louisiana, the first indian-american governor in history. he was tapped to give the response to president obama's first stast the union. it didn't go so well. >> good evening and happy martydi gras. >> reporter: now jindal is trying to step back on to the national stage. >> thank you very much. >> reporter: a born again catholic, he is looking to appeal to evangelicals particularly in iowa. recently jindal struck a tone that surprised even some of his admirers. >> thank you for coming. >> reporter: he warned about muslim no go zones and shariah law in europe. >> we need to understand that

shariah law is not compatible. freedom of expression and religion. >> reporter: he had a cameo in "duck dynasty" after defending the star who head homosexuality is in the same category as beastiality. >> they all say that they're for diversity and tolerance and, you know minority views and opinions unless you disagree with him. >> his announcement will make him the 13th republican presidential conditioned date. far back he could struggle to stand out. >> yes, competition is a great thing if you have three or four candidates. we're talking about 20 now. how do you breakthrough that crowd? >> we spent the last year and a half in a not for profit on coming up on foreign policy. i think we need the next president to do something, not just somebody that wants to be somebody. >> all right. and casey hunt joins us now. is it fair to call him a long

shot when i mean there were a lot more. it is just starting. >> call him a long shot. that doesn't mean he won't win. casey? >> i think it's fair to call him a long shot. this is a huge field. the top tier is pretty clearly not where jindal is going to be and breaking through the noise is going to be a cheap challenge. as i was going back and looking at governor jindal's record i think there are some people who know him as the guy who called republicans stupid party as they remember his state of the union. they see him differently than what they think or feel like he's running as now. as somebody who is really playing to social conservatives. i will say when he ran for governor the second time in many ways he used this socially conservative playbook especially in some of the rural areas in will you luchlt he took a lot of conservative positions on teaching intelligent design for example. i think in some ways this is really in line with what he's

done before. i would say his record could be problematic. he implemented serious tax cuts in louisiana and has really blown a hole in the state budget f does he rise to the top and people start to attack him. that could be a problem. >> kasie, you look at this field, it's heart to sad thereof the field, when he looks at the prospect for himself, where do you think he sees himself? how does he push through there? >> i think that you're going to see him play to this ee january -- evangelical vote. there is a line through south carolina and skipping new hampshire. i think that lane itself is so crowded. they have a pretty high bar to cross to prove he'll be able to breakthrough. >> all right, kasie hunt thank you very much. and jobby jindal will join us tomorrow on the heels of his announcement. >> that's exciting. >> we'll see what he says. still ahead, bill kristol was

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it just got a little ugly

twitter did yesterday. i was sitting there eating my bonn-bonns and having tea with willie and -- >> i just see one tweet here. i'm not sure i want to read it. >> joining us now -- >> then we saw it erupt. >> editor of "the week li standly standard," bill went on twitter to talk about the controversy. expunging every acknowledgement of americans who fought for the confederacy. next we'll ban teaching of lincoln's second inaugural in schools. none of that with malice toward all stuff. if they noticed when they visited arlington or gettysburg there are confederate monuments, statues and graves. ecrasez l'infame! >> you said that italian word so well. >> those are historic monuments

and statues are like that is clearly history. flying a flag is today. selling it in walmart is today. it's different. and you know it. you know it. >> i say on twitter, if we're going over my twitter account and analyzing it with great interest, i say i've been for removing the confederate capital in south carolina for 15 years. john mccaind the issue in 200, 2000, i'm a mccain fan. >> so you're in support of it? >> i'm a lincoln guy. >> so you're provoking. that's all you're doing. >> no i -- >> you're trolling. >> i dislike the kind of cheap self righteousness of the specially of the left or something on the right these days too, where they get into this frenzy of hatred. its not just the flag. now we can't honor robert e. lee? what about the confederate

monument at arlington? is that inappropriate? what about the confederate statues at gettyburg? >> some of them are appropriate. they are sim boflz histymbols of history, of war, things in our past. >> not just things in our past. there was a conscious effort after the civil war to bring the country back together. southerners entitled to be proud of robert e. lee. americans are entitled to respect robert e. lee. they went out of their way to be respectful of the confederate soldiers? isn't that one of the great stories? so a little more of that spirit and a little less self righteous moralism. and, b, the left would have been mostly in the party of peace in 1863 or '64. they would have said we have to end the slaughter. we can't win the war. it's very complicated. we're getting into a quagmire. the left doesn't want to fight actual dictators today. they don't want to do anything

about slavery in iraq today, but it's easy to beat up on dead con fed rats. >> jonathan capehart? >> i'm sort of dumb founded here. we're talking about the reaction of the slaughter of nine people in a church historic african-american church and the conversation that erupted overseeing their murderer being pictured with a confederate battle flag who used that symbol of hate to sort of bask in his own hatred and, sorry, bill but listening you to just now, you're sort of -- to me you're belittling the pain and anguish not only of those families of the nine who were killed but african-americans who for decades have had to look at that flag and have it and see it flown over state capitols that are supposed to represent them seeing it flown in public places

that their tax dollars actually go to help pay for. and while i understand maybe you're being provocative, you can have your view of what the left does or doesn't do what it comes to dictators and slavery and other places but to use what's happened in charleston as a way to push whatever debate you're trying to have i think is unfortunate. >> all right. >> the left views what happened in charleston to push the agenda. do we think amazon and walmart should not sell memorabilia of the confederacy? >> you ask them. they're the ones that put out that they're not going to. >> i know. >> yet they sell swastikas. >> i don't think they should not sell that. it is a historical document. i mean this is kind of -- >> i think -- >> if i understand the ideology correct, you're a big fan of the free market.

they should make decisions about what they should and shouldn't sell. i don't think if they decide it's in their business interest not to sell any given product, they should not sell it. >> they can do whatever they want under free trade. >> let's leave it at that. >> let's not leave it at that. >> they're responding to the market, bill. >> i'm a left. i have an opinion. >> you are. >> they're catering to political correctness under pressure? >> or what others call market forces. >> fine. okay. are you willing to let amazon sell it? >> i'm willing to let them sell anything they want to sell. there is no reason to criticize them. to make a decision -- >> we can't criticize them? >> if you respect the free market you're not a -- >> it's strange you're allowed to criticize people in america. >> guys. one at a time. >> if they pull books written by carl marks, he inspired the murder of tens of millions of people f they said we're not selling anything by carl marks because a lot of communists

murder people. i think that is a mistake. i would criticize amazon for that. >> does that shock you? >> oh, my god, you can't criticize them. >> you're free to criticize anybody you want. i'm just trying to say it seems inconsistent with the view if they made the decision -- >> do you think they should sell the memoirs of jefferson dave snis. >> certainly. >> okay. >> certainly. undoubtedly. and so i do believe most people on the left think there is no problem that no one on the left i talked about banning the teachingst second inaugural nor are they talking about tearing down the monuments at gettysburg. nobody is talking about any of those things. literally, i know of no one. this is the classic exercise of straw man building and knocking down. i know it's fun for you. you are trolling by doing these things because no one on the left is suggesting what you're suggesting. >> if i got people to say that no one on left should suggest these things thats a good thing. there was a frenzy and there is a frenzy on the left to expunge

anything on the left. >> there are a lot of us looking at what happened in charleston trying to make sense of it and trying to see what incredibly important moment this is in our history and what the president and vice president going down there on friday and taking part in the funeral, i think we're looking at these issues through the lens of that and not trying to have fights over an overall ideology in other parts of our history. jonathan capehart can you stay with us? >> yes. >> we'll be right back. we'll continue punching bag big kristol, stay with us, too. we'll be back with much more "morning joe."

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failure." >> you say america is much less safe with president obama as commander in chief? >> yes, i think that's fair to say. what i started this book in 2012, a lot of people thought president obama was doing a pretty good job on national security. the argument of the book is that during his first term we saw decision that's led to a lot of the subsequent decline in the u.s. position of isis ukraine, and it really centers on the decision 2011 to shift to a strategy that is very drone focused. >> sort of hands off? >> yeah. and the view we can -- from 30,000 feet control events on the ground and that we don't need a big military of course we've seen now we sent troops back to iraq just yesterday. the secretary of defense said we're sending forces to eastern europe. we realize we can't just pull back from the world.

>> you also dig into what many in foreign policy say the president has a lack of interest in military issues generally. >> yeah i think that's correct. i put him in the same class as a lot of other presidents. lyndon johnson, bill clinton. they were very focused on ambitious domestic agenda. and foreign policy is something mainly to be kept from interfearing with that agenda. so so that generally tends to breed a reactive strategy. you're trying to manage crisis to keep them from intervening. >> you're critical of president obama's reliance on drone warfare. wouldn't be you equally critical if you were sending troops in and americans were dying again as they have been for the last 13 years? >> it all depends on what you're trying to accomplish. what we've seen is when you pull u.s. forces out, things can actually get even worse. partst rational of pulling out

of iraq not going to libya is that we thought that president obama thought that the reason for a lot of this conflict is the presence of americans. we've now seen in iraq, afghanistan, yemen, all the places without americans things are getting worse. >> the premise also going in was a failure? >> with going into -- >> iraq? >> i think there was -- you know, in hindsight what we know going into iraq was a failure. by the time president obama came in we had gained a relatively stable iraq that i think do ko have been a beakian for democracy in the middle east and pulling out i think eliminated a chance of iraqis holding together because we were the sort of impartial arbitor that kept the sunnis from killing each other. >> the book is "strategic failure." thank you so much. coming up chuck todd joins the conversation plus former executive editor of "the new york times" bill keller. and on tomorrow's show florida

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coming up we'll go live -- excuse me -- to upstate new york and the new developments in the search for the two escaped convicts. how bobby jindal may join the race for 2016. we'll look at the other republican who may not be far behind even though the new poll

numbers are far from encouraging. >> we also have the mississippi congressman thompson. he is going to remove the flag from his state's design. and bill kristol locked in a cage. we're having a cage fight on the set of "morning joe" between bill kristol and a very juiced john heilemann when we return. >> oh, dear. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? you know, in any job any profession image matters. i want some gray...but not too much. only touch of gray uses oxygen to gently blend away some gray but not all for that perfect salt and pepper look.

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capehart in washington. we have a lot to get to. you guys are going to continue your conversation about the confederate flag in just a moment. but first, the republican presidential field looks set to expand again. a report in "politico" says chris christie can announce as early as next week. donald trump has rocketed to second place after his high profile announcement. >> lep let's talk about that really quickly. bill kristol, you wrote about donald trump. you say he and rand paul are your two least favorite republicans but he may have an impact in this race. >> we discussed that monday. republicans are not taking trump seriously enough. he tapped into a populous, nationalist, anti-politician vein. he is a good communicator, he knows how to use tv. he'll do well in the debate. it will be foolish to show disdain for him. he could be ross perot, he could

be third party. can you imagine jeb bush hillary clinton, the dynasties, insiders. it's important the republicans hug trump rather than disdain him. >> how dangerous could he be to the republican party for the brand and also if he decides to go independent? >> i think if he goes independent, it's very dangerous. i think for the brand and primaries, he's fine. have a bunch of candidates on stage and let him debate. >> you know, john heilemann, we also talked about chris christie. he is thinking about running. a poll said he was down to 30% approval rating in new jersey. >> yeah. >> i was thinking hey this guy is jg gog to jumgoing to jump in the race he better do it fast. >> he's been giving substantial policy speeches over the last couple months. >> why is it not working? >> there is still the overhang of bridgegate. he is still dealing with that in terms of the memory of it the concern on the part of republican establishment that the indictments and everything that is still going on there is

a problem for him. but the state, not just -- there's a reason why the approval rating is as low as it is in the state which is that new jersey economy is horrible. >> why is the new jersey economy horrible? i thought there was a new jersey miracle coming. what happened? >> they've had, there's been problems with managing that budget process. they've been downgraded by the bond rating agencies six or seven times in the last 18 months or 24 months. look the economy akrooscross the country is not as good as they think it s the kinds of success he had in the first term working across the aisle have more or less he vabevaporated. it's hard to run if you don't have a miracle story to tell. bobby jindal has the same problem. at principle of law rating in louisiana, 32%. it's hard to run when your state doesn't like you. >> terrible down in louisiana as well especially the budget

crisis. can he light it up in new hampshire? >> i don't think it's out of the question. people can discount to some degree whether the state has economic robs or not. i think it's maybe the case politicians have moments. barack obama saw that extremely well. how can you run against hillary clinton? don't you need to prepare more? he sthed is my moment and went for it and won. i think chris christie can make a move in 2012. if he got in the race at the end of 2011 with romney and santorum and he would have won. i'm not sure he wouldn't have beaten president obama in politics. if you don't go for it when you have the moment, it may seems early, the four years late tler is a little sense of well, we respect chris christie here he is again. but scott walker is there and other people jeb bush has come back and other people seem in a way, i don't know. >> the field of 2012 is very weak. christie was very strong. none of the things that hurt him significantly like bridgegate

had happened yet. that may have within his moment. >> inside the washington new york media bubble there is a lot of focus on bridgegate. but when you go outside and talk to people do you hear people mentioning traffic on the bridge in new jersey? >> i think people remember that there was a moment when chris christie became a punch line on late night tv. that is the biggest problem. it's hard as it is for rick perry, it's hard to come back from that moment when you become a figure of mockery in the national press. and people do remember that. the other problem that chris christie has is he is always out of step with the republican base. so when he seemed like a potent figure, people were willing to overlook that. now you find republicans in new hampshire and iowa actually looking at issue positions. along with donald trump, he is the most unpopular. favorables are higher. the number of republicans who said they would never vote for him are higher. they're running neck in neck in that category. those are really hard things to overcome, even given his immense

political talent which i grant he has. >> we'll see if that changes once he gets in the race as early as next week. interesting op-ed in usa today. a woman said she slept vote for hillary t-shirt. and she had her passion for politics reignited when secretary clinton launched her second white house bid. is now firing back at hillary clinton. she is taking clinton's campaign to tass income a column titled "hillary paid interned." she was thrilled when she was offered a hillary fellow. that turned to disbelief when they said she would have to move to nevada and work full time for free. she writes in part i did not apply as a routine volunteer but as a fellow. she perpetuates unpaid internships is like discovering that santa isn't real. i can't even get a wage. what exactly are hillary clinton's priorities and how do i change them? >> i wonder.

we asked around. it seems -- i hear it's par for the course that there are unpaid interns working for heilemann. the tradition of it i would say -- >> multiple levels? >> most labor done in most presidential campaigns in both parties by every candidate is unpaid labor. it just is. volunteers is what -- you have staff. but then you have volunteers. you have lots and lots of volunteers, interns and otherwise that keep campaign as float. this is like the most common thing in the world. >> it? >> yeah. >> okay. she is calling her out saying that, gis because you want to lift up millennials you should pay them. we were asking kasie to call around and it seems like other candidates have unpaid interns as well. i know i work for free when i started out. but i didn't move to nevada. i wasn't asked to move. >> that is a little different, i guess. >> it is different. we'll see and look into it more. let's go to south carolina.

state legislature there has moved to take up the debate over the confederate flag this sum eastern it could begin as early as next week. yesterday saw a demonstration on both sides outside of the state house, some calling for the flag's removal, others who want it to stay where it is. all the way in washington a moment of silence in the capitol for the slain. and from the south carolina state senate came a voice with a familiar name. state senator paul thurmond son of segregationist strom thur manned. >> i'm proud to be on the right side to remove this symbol of bigotry from the state house. let us not satisfy to stop there. justice by halves is not justice. we must take down the confederate flag and we must take it down now. but if we stop there, we have cheated ourselves out of an opportunity to start a different conversation about healing in

our state. i am ready. >> and what started in columbia is spreading around the country. mitch mcconnell called for a stat you've confederate president jefferson davis to be removed from the kentucky state house's rotunda. governors in virginia and north carolina want the flag off state license plates. and there is a push to take confederate flags off state house grounds in alabama. some of the nation's biggest retailers will stop selling con federal merchandise. walmart, sears and kmart will stop. amazon ebay and etsy are getting rid of postings and google will take confederate flag content out of the shopping ads. even the biggest flag maker valley forge will stop making them. still, there are surges on sales in stores like this one. >>, so bill you -- somebody that supported taking down the flag 15 years ago in 2000

campaign, i take it you think this is a positive move for the republican party? >> yeah. i haven't really thought about it in terms of partisan terms. >> it is much better than having a presidential candidate go every stop in south carolina and be asked this question if, it's open the table, that's one less question. >> yeah. i think people are seeing the elected officials in south carolina south carolinians are such bigots why did they elect an african-american senator? it's an admirable city in the world. its very impressive. the murder is absolutely horrible, obviously. the confederate flag should have been taken down. one shouldn't get into an orwellian rewriting of history or denying what is impress bif robert e. lee that fought for the south, the sacrifices and the decision of the nation to come together after the civil war which was not a trivial

thing, inspired by abraham lincoln, to heal the wounds and recognize the sacrifices and what was honorable about the fight of americans in the confederacy. i'm glad they lost. i would have been a strong lincolnian and defender of grant's march to the sea, the whole thing. but from the partisan point of view, yes, if people see nicky haley, tim scott and lindsey graham in south carolina i think that's impressive. puts a little bit of a lie to the caricature of the cartoon version of the republican party. >> john heilemann, every four years you have republican candidates and the presidential primary going through south carolina ask the question and they all stumble. >> yeah. >> and they started stumbling until mitt romney came out and this moved like an avalanche. this does make the march through south carolina politically for republicans a bit safer if the flag is taken down right? >> the best thing for republicans, purely partisan

terms, for exact lit reasons you say will be if the confederate flag were removed from every state in which it currently continues to fly in any form and where if all public spacesen that is one of the differences, i agree with bill. i think everything you just said. i think civil war should be taught. we should have books about it. we should have memorials. we should have museums that display it. everyone should understand it and learn about it. it's an important part of our history. but in public areas, if the statues, flags, and other things that are about a cause about maintaining a slave based nation, if they were gotten rid of, it would be good for the country and republican party. no one would be asked about it anymore. >> all right. >> we need to go to capitol hill right now. >> ranking member of the house and homeland security committee u.s. senator -- u.s. representative bennie thompson of mississippi, the state's house speaker has proposed taking the confederate flag off the states flag. do you agree?

>> absolutely. that symbol should not be there. >> how much support is there going to be to make that happened? >> well, we'll see over the next few days and weeks. but for the speaker to take that leap of faith, to say i'm a christian and because of my christian beliefs, this symbol should not there be is a big step for my state. a lot of us have had issues with the flag in the past. but it's been marginalized to a few people. but to see someone of his stature doing that at this point, it's wonderful. >> bennie you obviously have seen a lot of changes in mississippi through your lifetime. you were there for five years. i go back i see a lot of changes there as well. could you imagine all of this happening as quickly as it's happened over the past week since the dreadful tragedy in charleston? >> unfortunately, joe had it not been for the tragedy, this

would not be applied this week or in this month's discussion. you know it's like the birmingham bombing, the killing of the three civil rights workers here in mississippi, it takes a tragedy to bring out the good in people. >> yeah. no doubt. >> jonathan capehart? >> look, like i said earlier, the only silver lining in the tragedy of charleston is that we've gotten a national conversation and movement on removing the confederate battle flag from public areas in south carolina. the fact that other governors and other states are moving to -- moving to remove it from public areas and license plates and flags, as in the case of mississippi, is also a terrific thing. that confederate battle flag cannot be said often enough is a

very painful reminder to a significant portion of this country about its past. and while i can understand people wanting to revere and venerate their ancestors who fought for the confederacy, for a whole lot of other people that confederacy was treasonist. that war was about splitting this country apart. and the people who fought in that war were as john heilemann said earlier were fighting to maintain a slave-based system. so while i, you know i hear what bill is saying about honoring members of the confederacy. to me, those folks, those folks are traitors. and in this case maybe i should go and sort of revere and venerate benedict arnold. people would consider me crazy to do that and they would be right. so from my perspective, doing that for folks in the confederacy is the same thing. >> congressman thompson it's

willie geist. there are obviously not many people inside the state of mississippi who believe that it's appropriate to have at least a part of the confederate flag as part of your state's flag. do you have any sympathy for their point of view? do you understand the historical argument that's are made in defense of that flag? >> i understand the historical argument. but, you know the south lost. my state lost the war. we can't erase it. but we can put it in a place where if people want to go find out about it they can do that. museums, other things. we're doing a civil rights museum in our state right now. i would hope that flag would be part of that civil rights museum so people from all over the world can come and see how mississippi used to be. but to try to claim that that flag is somehow heritage and not hate is just unfathomable in

this day and time. >> bennie thompson thank you so much for being on the show this morning. let's turn now to upstate new york in a town of owls head. investigators say that is the center of the manhunt for escaped prisoners richard matt and david sweat. new evidence discovered in a hunting cab anyone the town's woods had law enforcement combing the surrounding area on tuesday. joining us now from owls head new york nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk. stephanie, how confident are they that they can get a capture? >> well, that confidence is slipping. a lead like the one they got over the weekend is the kind of thing they hope would lead to a quick capture. now that hope is quickly fading. on our drive up here we were stopped a half dozen times in only a ten mile stretch. we were told each time to lower our windows and pop our trunks. richard matt and david sweat seep slipping through their

fingers. >> reporter: this morning the grueling search for david sweat and richard matt focused on this rugged rugged, thick forest. sources close to the investigation, tell nbc that's where a cabin owner caught the convicts by surprise 30 miles from the prison. dna from both men was found. they left behind half eaten food and even a pair of underwear. now new details on how they escaped. according to the da prison worker joyce mitchell says she smuggled tools into the prison by hiding them in ground beef. hacksaw blades drill bits and a whole punch. jean palmer a correctional officer who is on administrative leave without being charged was the whoun delivered the meat to sweat and matt. palmer passed a polygraph test saying he didn't know he was handing over tools. meanwhile, joyce's husband lyle mitchell told matt she was in too deep and didn't know how to get out of it. >> does she claim she was forced to do the things she did in terms of supplying them? >> no. not the tools.

as far as everything else she said when it came down to hurting me then she said something is wrong. as the search reaches day 19 residents are taking extra precautions. this cabin is just five miles from where the dna was found. >> it's very unnerving when i pulled in. i had to have a loaded weapon with me. >> we're in the middle of the woods here. >> you're a long ways from anywhere right here. absolutely. >> state police have moved their staging area from the fire department here in owls thoed a nearby ski resort. they didn't say why. it does give them easier access to the mountains. the county sheriff tells us that the search area is now 170 square miles. >> stephanie gosk thank you very much. and bill kristol, thank you. >> thank you, bill. be careful in the twittersphere. >> they can't hurt you. that is probably incorrect. i'm going to stick with.

that. >> still ahead on "morning joe," jeb bush or marco rubio will put rick scott on the spot when he joins "morning joe" tomorrow. today, his crowds and poll numbers keep on growing. presidential candidate bernie sanders is our guest. and up next south carolina state representative todd rutherford on when he expects the confederate flag to stop flying in his state. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you wouldn't do half of your daily routine. so why treat your mouth any differently? complete the job with listerine®. kill up to 99 percent of germs. and prevent plaque, early gum disease and bad breath. sfx: ahhh listerine®. power to your mouth™!

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all right. 22 past the hour. joining us from columbia south carolina minority leader of the house of representatives democrat todd rutherford. todd thank you very much for joining us. is there any way this flag comes down in time for the funeral on friday? >> well, you know i certainly hope so. in fact today at 1:00 the senate as a body is going to line the rotunda. they're going to transport the body into the rotunda.

at that point, i hope the governor looks up at the flag as i did yesterday and notice it looks wind torn. as such on the code section, she has the authority to take the flag down for repairs. and those repairs may take the four hours that his body is going to lay in the rotunda on maybe on sunday again to look at it to make sure it doesn't need anything else. that is the way it could be done. that is the way that we hope it will be done just to show respect for senator pinckney and his family. >> that would be a wonderful way to show respect. what does the voting process look like? what is the time schedule? what is the soonest we could expect something to pass that the governor could sign to remove the flag permanently? >> well we introduced bills yesterday dealing with taking the flag down permanently. those bills would go to a committee. the committee would hold hearings on them to get the input they needed. then full committee and back to house floor and senate floor. so you're talking about a process that could take as long as mid august. but i've heard from leadership,

remember leadership they really want to get this done. hopefully it will be sooner than. that we may come in as early as next week depending on what the governor's veto said. >> representative rutherford has the pace the accelerated pace of this change has it shocked you? >> it is equally as shocking as the nine deaths. the governor was friends with senator pinckney. i know that i served with the governor as well before she was elected. she's known him for a decade. he voted for the former senate pro temperature for. he voted for the current pro tem. so he is somebody involved in south carolina politics for so long that all of the leadership knew him and knew hum well. they know how passive he was. and that is the most shocking part about this. what bothers me the most are those people that say this is about heritage they have not requested that flag come down for the funeral. have not requested that the flag fly half-staff. if the american flag flies at half-staff, then all flags should fly at half-staff. >> i want to show you something. let's just talk about how

quickly things have happened in all of our lifetime. here is a headline. clinton called south carolina shooting terrorism. >> racial terrorism. >> racial terrorism. and goes on and says candidate also says confederate flag shouldn't fly anywhere. it's remarkable that while they were in arkansas and she was first lady in arkansas they celebrated confederate flag day for better part of a decade. isn't it a testament to how quickly things are changing since the terrorist act and we think it's racial terrorism last week and that south carolina seems to be ground zero for that change? >> it s it is also ground zero for the murders. you have eight other people besides senator pinckney that we're also mourning their lives as well. and in doing, so i watched over the weekend as things hit light speed as the governor called us in as the leadership and house called us in and said we have to do this and do this now. so it is truly at light speed here in south carolina as to how

fast they want to make this change. and but for the july 4th holiday, i think we're doing a lot faster than we are. >> representative rutherford, it is willie geistst i want to tell thought world and country are so impressed by the way that south carolina as a state and charleston as a city carried themselves over the last week beginning with those nine victims who welcomed a stranger into their bible study and let him sit there for an hour. how the families conducted eded themselves with grace and talking to the shooter. and how you have pulled together so tightly around such terrible tragedy? >> you know truth be told in the south carolina house, we really are pretty close. if you watch the tributes yesterday on the house floor, you saw representative jim merrill who said several time he tried to get cla men take pinckney rouled up and he would pat him on the shoulder and say, son, we'll work on it another

day or talk about it another time. that is how senator pinckney s that has gone a long way to push this process. everybody knew him and the kind of guy he was. he was salt of the earth, as are any people that are in church on a wednesday afternoon and welcome a strange near their bible study. that makes them move even faster. >> south carolina state representative todd rutherford thank you very much. coming up with the deadly church shooting in charleston lead for a new push for gun safety reforms on capitol hill? we'll talk to republican congressman pat toomey of pennsylvania. chuck todd will join us as well. keep it right here on "morning joe."

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for me. ♪ okay. 31 past the hour. are you all -- >> we're talking about strong words. >> next commercial break. >> joining us now -- >> do you know who i am? >> do you know who i am? >> do you need a tray? >> he was definitely the person who doted everyone into getting in trouble. >> i was too busy getting in trouble in school. >> joining us now in washington did he not do this nbc news

political director and moderator of meet the press chuck todd he was studying and pat toomey he received the santy hook promise champion award last night for his work to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. i guess first of all -- >> senator, talk about that. obviously, had to be extraordinarily moving meeting with the families. >> yeah. >> sandy hook. still as a connecticut resident i can tell you, i was at a dinner last week and it is still -- so many conversations still go back to that. >> yeah. >> talk about your emotional meeting with them. >> well good morning, guys. thanks for having me. you know the folks who have founded sandy hook promise are just amazing to me. these are, of course mostly parents and some cases spouses of the people who are massacred that day. and what they have done with amazing courage and

determination is to put together an organization that is nonpartisan, it doesn't have an ideology. fwz trying to prevent the next massacre. and they realize that probably the way to do that is to identify the early signs of the mental illness that in the case of previous massacres has eventually led to this downward spiral where demons take over and these young men commit these unbelievable atrocities. so identifying the early signs, intervening early to help prevent that downward spiral. they do have a focus on gun safety as well. people keeping firearms locked in their homes safely of but what really impresses me is just the courage and the determination to do something constructive out of this terrible terrible tragedy they went through. >> senator toomey you and senator mansion introduced legislation in the wake of what happened in connecticut. that legislation expired. what is your plan now?

there is always going to be another massacre either occurring or certainly on the horizon. could you please explain why vociferous and vocal proponents of, you know the nra, the nra, keep your hands off guns the second amendment, what your legislation did not do in terms of gun ownership? >> well the only thing that our legislation would have done is it would have said that if you purchase a gun through a commercial vendor, whether it's at a gun show ordealership or online, you have to go through a instantaneous background check. it takes about three minutes. to determine if you have been adjudicated as mentally unfit because of a mental incapacity that makes you dangerous or a convicted criminal. and we all agree that people in those two categories shouldn't have guns. and that's not a controversial idea. unfortunate lishgs it became

controversial to establish a procedure to broaden the background checks. i'm very disappointed. i think some people mischaracterize the legislation and that led others to oppose it. but, look i think it's the right thing to do. >> all right. chuck todd i want to take a turn here and get some political insight from you. we're looking at the latest suffolk university poll for new hampshire. donald trump is in second. what do you make of that? >> well donald trump got a boost the last time when he flirted within a week or two of his announcement. he surged very quickly. i think, you know ask me again in two weeks. this could be one of those moments where we're seeing candidates sort of surge and pull back and surge and pull back. one of the things i've noticed is you've got -- this is sort of the cookieness of how this debate process is going to work and who gets into the debates and who is not, now you have

candidates, there's a couple candidates that are trying to time their announcement later and later so they can sort of get this announcement bump just to get into the top ten. you know trump may look back on his moment. if all he cares about is the debates, he's getting into the debates to sort of be relevant he may regret that he got in too early. john kasich looks like it may be towards the end of july that gets in. he is hoping for that two week window where he surges and he has to be included. >> what is the process for getting into the debate? >> well fox's process and cnn's both is using national polls. and so this is about creating a national announcement and getting national buzz and hoping you pop in. i'm sure both fox and cnn have regrets now about how this was working considering the unintended consequence of what we've seen so far. but that's the process. that's the criteria they laid out. you also have to file your papers.

i think the question i have is are they going to allow any candidates on stage who have not turned in their financial disclosure? you don't have -- you know you can file for an extension on that. like you file your statement of candidacy. you have to do your financial disclosure within 30 days. can you get two 45-day extensions. you know if fox and cnn really want to try to turn the screws here a little bit on the candidates, you know, don't accept the extension. if you don't have the paperwork in, you're not in. >> john heilemann? >> i want to go back to senator toomey. i want to ask you about you tried to do gun control of the kind. a very mild kind once before in the wake of sandy hook. a time when it seemed like the political stars were in alignment to get that done didn't happen. today, are the prospect for passage of that legislation better today than they were after sandy hook or appreciably worse? >> yeah, by the way, i don't even think that it's gun control.

i think background checks is in a different category. >> fair enough. >> i get the question. honestly, i don't want to build up any false expectations. i'm not aware we have the votes to do what senator mansion and i attempted. it is possible that some portion of that some subset of what we were focused on is possible? honestly probably not likely. but i think the fundamental idea is sound. and, you know i intend to continue discussions with my colleagues to see if there is some support for some way forward. >> it certainly is sound. you've got a concept background checks. >> at a gun show. >> yeah. and the concept is a radical concept. you want to keep guns out of the hands of possible terrorists. who as we all know were actually having videos saying go to america go. to a gun show. it's easy to get your hands on assault weapons. people who are domestic abusers, i think it's probably wise for

us to have a policy that does background checks to screen them out, for mentally disturbed people who are the most likely to commit the next sandy hook act. this just is -- this has nothing to do with gun control. it has nothing to do with the second amendment. it has nothing to do with people's rights to keep and bear arms. a right that i believe with. this is just sanity. and the fact that we can't pass a law like that after sandy hook? >> absolutely disgraceful. >> we do background checks now, right? if you're a licensed firearms dealer, you have to perform a background check. in my state of pennsylvania all handgun sales are subject to a background check already. not all long gun sales. >> mechanics are there. >> yeah. it's something that is accepted for so many years. it's just a matter of can we complete the prosnes. >> nor pat toomey -- go ahead,

chuck. >> really quickly. why wouldn't gun manufacturers want to be playing about it same rules? you know, i never understood why they weren't an ally on this. >> yeah. well, you know i think the manufacturers are the licensed firearm dealers. >> yeah. >> they're subject to the rules that are not prevailing at a gun show. what you have to do is ask them. i think i understand they've got a constituency that is divided on this. but some of the licensed firearm dealers were supportive of the legislation that senator mansion and i proposed. >> senator pat toomey thank you very much. chuck todd thank you as well. up next why are more and more conservatives turning their attention to prison reform? the editor in chief of the marshal project bill keller joins us next. we'll be right back.

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bill keller writes in this week's "new yorker" magazine about the rising conservative moment towards prison reform. bill you write that if a conservative is a liberal and mugged, a lib call is a conservative who has served time. it's fascinate thawing write. that i was scratching down irving crystal was -- you know irving crystal had said conservative a liberal is mugged by reality and thomas wolf responded by saying yeah, but a liberal is a conservative who actually served time. >> there are lots of examples. the focus of mile an hour peace in the new yorker pat nolan, was in the assembly in the '80s. he got caught up in an fbi bribery sting, pleaded to racketeering charge and did -- got a 33-month sentence. he didn't come out liberal by any means. but he came out transformed on

the issue of how the criminal justice system works. not just prisons but how prosecutions work. the way prosecutors use their discretion. to pile up charges, to sort of force you to cop a plea. the way investigators, you know intimidate your colleagues and friends and donors in order to get them to testify against you, in order to you know to nail you. and there are lots of other examples. bernie kerik is the most recent example who is still a rudy giuliani conservative. he did time and is now lobbying for prison reform including restoring the voting rights of people who have been in prison. >> yeah. we had him on when his book came out. don't think he's talking with rooney though. >> obviously senator rand paul is out front on this issue. charles and david coke made this an important issue for them as

well. how significant has their support or the support of conservatives been to moving this along? >> a lot. the liberals who have been the traditional constituency for putting fewer people into prison and treating them more humanely when they're in there have been terrified. you know going back to the willie horton ad and even before, you know liberals have had to be more tough than the toughest in order to avoid being pillaried as soft on crime. so they need the conservatives to give them political cover. so if there is a chance of something significant happening, which is probably more likely to happen state by state than the federal level, it is because conservative stood up and were heard. >> how do conservatives thinking about the sentencing option that's are put on the table? rather than sending someone to jail a white collar person to jail. go work in a hospital or a school for 14 16 18 months?

>> that's one area where i can't speak for conservatives across the board. but conservatives who have signed on to these movements for reform strongly oppose mandatory minimum sentences. they think that's taken away judicial discretion. it's become a tool that prosecutors use to brow pete people into cutting plea deals. they want much more flexibility in sentencing. they want many morality earntives for people who will mentally ill or drug addicted particularly for low level drug crimes. there's a pretty broad republican slash conservative constituency for those. >> bill keller thank you. i appreciate you coming on this morning. >> thank you. congratulations. you're having a pretty good time. >> i am. i'm having a great time. the project is off and running. >> congratulations. >> still ahead, a powerful

conspiracy kikts white collar board rooms to gangs on the streets of the windy city. two of the stars of "rogue" join "morning joe" next. we'll be right back. when you travel, we help you make all kinds of connections. connections you almost miss. and ones you never thought you'd make. we help connect where you are. to places you never thought you'd go. this, is why we travel. and why we continue to create new technology to connect you to the people and places that matter. ♪ every auto insurance policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. ♪ those who have served our nation have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve.

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hardly. the chandelier that's mine. >> you make them? >> i sell them. antiques yeah. >> got that from florence last year. you know what if you're ever in the market -- >> turn of the century lighting. nice to meet you. >> that was a look at directv's original drama "rogue" which returns for the third season tonight. joining us now cole houser and derrick luke. good to have you both on the show. >> congratulations, three seasons. >> thank you. >> that's something. >> it is something. >> did you think it would happen when you started out? >> absolutely. >> you just knew it? that's how i felt about this show. how did you know? >> when you have a creator like matthew parker who's a genius -- >> a great writer. >> good for geniuses on your

side. >> he's intelligent and smart and the show is that. >> what makes it work? >> i mean having guys like him come in each year you know or richard, we keep getting great actors. we keep continuing to express things we need to express about the intelligence world. so i think we've been blessed in that way. >> directv is doing pretty well i think it trails on om cast and subscribers but you want to bring in more. tell us about "rogue" and each of your characters and what makes it click so much. go ahead. >> i play a character by the name of marlin denard he has a sort of front -- >> owns a chandelier store. >> that's a front. >> that's a front.

i thought maybe a laundromat, but a chandelier. >> pretty good for a guy -- >> i thought maybe an ice rink or something, but no. >> two boston guys. >> what happened? >> just shaving the ice. little money laundering going on at ice rinks across new england. what i love about this character, you hear all of this violence happening across the country. all of these shootings and i like this character because he lives sort of a double life i lived and had to be one way with her but when i went out in the street, i had to do this thing called ghetto conversion. >> did you say ghetto conversion? >> yeah, i never heard that one. >> i had to, it was about liveing a double life. there's a relationship between richard's character where he

feels i owe him something i don't and it creates a conflict. >> talking about ethan, how does ethan play into this? >> he's a very complex guy, a lot of colors. he was in the military, did three tours in afghanistan and iraq and did private security and they came home and went to san francisco and season two and started a private security company for corporate espionage. >> stole a lot of money? >> have you watched the show? >> a little bit. >> $10 million. >> now dealing with the drama of being blackmailed, right? >> i mean blackmailed -- no that's a strong word. he's not being blackmailed but -- >> how do you guys -- a hit series is one thing, how do you make -- tell me the ladder you climb to get to where you are now. this this just doesn't happen

you're on the verge of being homeless in massachusetts and now you're going to -- >> what about middlesex. >> route 3, yeah. >> i mean great thing about the show is and especially at the end of year two he's in the hospital bed with a gunshot wound. end of year three i go back to chicago and deal with my past whether it's my family or friends, some of the things i did in afghanistan, and then it's really kind of navigating through this man and marty stein played by richard schiff and how i'm being ping ponged between the two and how i navigate through it. matthew did a great job in taking a character like derrick, who is very complex and very smart and you know how he gets through it. >> so rogue premieres tonight. watch it. >> season three. >> 9:00 p.m. on directv's

audience network. thank you very much. very nice to meet you both. >> thank you. >> thanks for coming on the show. coming up protests erupt as south carolina moves to remove the confederate flag. why other states may soon be following suit. still ahead, independent senator bernie sanders will make his case on why he and hillary clinton is the answer for democrats in 2016.

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coast. joining us from washington we have jonathan capehart. we're going to begin this morning in south carolina where the state legislature has moved to take up the debate over the confederate flag this summer. it could begin as early as next week. yesterday saw demonstrations on both sides outside the statehouse. some calling for the flag's removal, others who want it to stay where it is. inside the chambers quiet. a moment of silence for state senator clem men ta pinckney. >> i'm proud to be on the right side of history regarding the removal of this symbol of racism and bigotry from the statehouse but let it not satisfy us to stop there. justice by house is not justice.

we must take towndown the confederate flag. if we stop there, we cheated ourselves out of an opportunity to start a different discussion about healing in our state. i am ready. >> what's started in columbia is spreading around the country. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell called for a statue of confederate president jefferson davis to be removed from the kentucky statehouse's rotunda, a move backed by both candidates for governor. they want the flag off state license plates and there's a push to take confederates off state grounds. brick and mortars like walmart and sears will stop and google we take confederate flag content off its shopping ads. even the country's biggest flag makers valley forge will stop

producing them. still some businesses are reporting surges on sales online and stores like this one in alabama. so what do you make of it? i -- i can't believe we have to wait through the summer to see if the flag will come down. it seems like it shouldn't be that hard. at least there is a ground swell of thought on this and movement. >> they seem to be moving very quickly in south carolina willie. >> it's all different symbols, a bust of jefferson davis in the state of kentucky the governor there says that should be moved out. i think there's this acknowledgement now that there are pieces of our history that should be recognized and you can't deny but don't necessarily have to be honored because of their implications. >> i guess the question is how far does it go? it starts with you shouldn't have a battle flag over a capitol because that's the battle flag of the confederacy, so that is a symbol of hatred. is a bust of jefferson davis a symbol of hatred and bigotry?

if that -- >> seems more like -- >> if that's a bust of bigotry, are they going to start dragging statues of robert e. lee out, you know where does this end up? let's twogo to jonathan capehart. a lot of developments people are looking for for decades. what's your take? >> i'm glad it's happening. you know i've written about this many, many times for me the confederate battle flag has made me uncomfortable. i spent every summer until i was 12 in north carolina with my grandparents and you know i would see it in places here and there and it's not that anybody told me anything about it but being a brainiac kid and reading history books and things i grew to understand what that flag meant to me to other african-americans, and also to southern whites.

and you know i know it's very hard language but personally speaking the confederate battle flag is no better than a swastika. it is a symbol of hate. it is a symbol of division. and as we saw in that manifesto attributed to dylann roof a lot of people glomed onto it as a symbol of hatred. and horrifying dylann roof took it to the next level where nine people had to lose their lives because someone hated them so much that he went out seeking to kill them. but, you know this is weird to say, but the bright spot in all of this is that the entire nation is talking about this talking about the symbolism of that battle flag but also south carolina after years of people demanding that the flag be taken down completely it's actually

happening. when you have someone like state senator paul thurmond saying what he said the mirror opposite of what his grandfather said back in the '50s and '60s, it's an incredible moment and incredible time. >> we've reached in the space of a week it seems to me near consensus about the confederate flag coming from both sides of the aisle. many republicans calling for its removal. for you though i'm curious, where is the line? there are obviously many of our founder fathers owned slaves and there are monuments to those men. where do we stop the movement to take the history away? >> that's a very good question. for me the confederacy, first the confederacy is -- i mean, come on, they foutdthought against the union. to me it's treasonous. if mitch mcconnell wants to go the step of removing statues of

jefferson davis, if other people want to remove busts of jeff jefferson davis, that's for them to decide. if they want to go there, go right ahead. you're not going to get any argument from me. for me though it's always been about the confederate battle flag and i haven't thought about anyone or anything beyond that. >> this is the issue with businesses jumping in which i can appreciate when you hear that companies like walmart are deciding not to sell confederate flag merchandise. then i think it opens up a whole world of possibilities as to what else they should be selling, you know guns or swas tis kas, which i guess you can get on amazon. >> you can. >> as joe just looked up. >> i'm checking and seeing -- >> it's nice of amazon to take down postings but that's kind of -- >> but there appear to still be swastikas on amazon. >> it a p.r. move or move to cut

out symbols of hatred. the companies have to look within. >> it's a good point. it starts here with the confederate flag always been the symbol of hatred. now we're talking about statues of historical figures, you could say jefferson davis, let's start with jefferson davis. then it goes to robert e. lee then it goes why doesn't it go to thomas jefferson, he owned slaves? why not george washington he owned slaves? is it going to be about the flag or about everything else associated with a very bad part of our history. >> we'll talk more about this. we have bill kris toll coming on board. a swastika is a symbol of hate. if you're selling that and taking the confederate flag off your shelves, you're not really being anything about hip critical. let's turn to upstate new york

and town of owl's head which is the center of the manhunt for richard matt and david sweat. new evidence discovered in a hunting cabin had law enforcement combing the surrounding area on tuesday. that break comes as new information emerged about prison worker joyce mitchell and how she smuggled escape tools inside the prison walls. here's nbc's stephanie gosk with more. >> reporter: in this remote new york town police hope they are closing in. every tip could be the one that leads to david sweat and richard matt. >> it's in difficult terrain. you couldn't travel very fast in a given day or time frame. >> reporter: sources close to the investigation tell nbc news that convicts were caught by surprise in a remote hunting cabin, leaving food and underwear behind. more detail about their escape the da says prison worker joyce mitchell said she smuggled the

convict's tools hidden in ground beef. administer palmer delivered the packages and he passed a polygraph test saying he didn't know he was handing over tools. a former inmate isn't surprised by the plan. >> after a certain amount of time they don't search you like that anymore, they don't really care. you're a familiar face. so they just let you through. >> reporter: dave worries they may be in his backyard. the hunting club is five miles from the cabin where they are holed up. the camp is typical, good shelter and plenty of fall. this time of year the cabins are mostly empty. >> my question is how did they ever find out about a place like this? >> reporter: there's no indication sweat and matt are still getting help. now discovered and on the run, surviving in these woods just got much more difficult. >> and that new information about joyce mitchell's alleged role in the escape comes as her

husband, who worked alongside her in the clinton correctional facility is speaking out for first time. here's lyle mitchell telling his side of the story to matt lauer in an nbc news exclusive. >> the instant you and your wife heard that richard matt and david sweat had escaped from clinton, what was her reaction and what was your reaction? >> i just couldn't believe it. her reaction -- i said really escaped? and that's -- i left it at that. >> when did you finally ask her point blank, face to face? >> that night on the way home. >> you said did you help these two prisoners escape? >> how can it happen? she said i was scared. i have something else to tell you. what's that? she said their plan was they wanted to kill you. i said what? they wanted her to come pick them up. >> when you stop and think about

it now, lyle isn't it very likely that you had been in the back of the car and had she shown up in the getaway car that both of you would be dead right now? >> absolutely 100%. >> if she had gone in the car -- >> she would have been dead within half hour i figure. she would just get away they were going to kill her and all they wanted was that vehicle. >> you said that immediately, mika, when the first news came out they were planning to kill the husband, no they weren't. they were never going to get to the husband. they were going to drive past a field and shoot her and dump her body and keep going with a car. >> later in the interview mitchell said he wasn't sure yet if he would stand by his wife or testify against her. he's not been charged with anything and according to his lawyer has cooperated fully with authorities. in just a few hours, president obama is expected to announce a major shift in the country's longstanding policy on americans who were taken hostage overseas expected to announce families

will no longer face the threat of criminal prosecution if they try to pay ransoms. president obama is expected to establish a new office that will communicate with both hostages' families and the government called the hostage recovery fusion cell. the change comes after several american hostages were killed by isis and families including that of james foley, complained of conflicting information from the white house. >> we never knew what they were doing because they really didn't tell us. we had no idea if -- >> it was always you know your son's situation is the highest priority. we're doing everything we possibly can but we can't tell you. we couldn't do nothing. i mean if they weren't going to rescue them couldn't get them home, what do you do? leave your kid in jail to get beaten? no way. >> i think the hard part though is because we naively thought, you know our government could take care of it and bring them home it delayed our efforts.

we were very slow to get more active and realize, well, gee, we've got to do something here. >> the white house also faced -- for detaintrading taliban for bow bergdahl. >> the families are so frustrated. let's bring in ayman mohyeldin. maybe this is going to take care of some of the problems -- >> but how? >> how are they really going to be involved with this? >> i think the question will come with time and actions. those are the words of one of the family relatives, whose quoted as saying it's not going to be about the findings but what actions the u.s. government takes government forward. you'll have a situation where there are a lot of questions to be answered. it's good the government will try to stream line the communication it has with family

members and raises questions about, well once the actual hostage negotiations begin, to what extent is the american government involved? could there be a point of contact between the american government and terrorist organizations demanding the ransom. would they have to negotiate with enemies is that the united states does not look down upon favorably? i think it's going to depend how it's implemented but certainly for the family members who have been complaining that they were getting mixed signals from the u.s. government over the course of the kidnappings, i think this is going to be seen as a true test in the coming weeks and months and hopefully it won't ever happen but certainly there were concerns about the fbi, whether the hostage fusion cell should be with the fbi, should it be somewhere else, sometimes there's mixed messaging out of the state department to these families, a lot remains to be answered. >> thank you very much. >> still ahead on "morning joe." co-star of the new film "ted 2" patrick warburton joins us onset

and up next, bernie sanders. fill bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> yesterday's storms in the northeast left people almost a million people without power. 300 reports of wind damage or high wind gusts throughout the region. let me show you the pictures. one of the hardest hit areas, southern portions of new jersey widespread winds up to 75 miles per hour. that's almost hurricane strength gusts and they did some significant damage. it was not a tornado. these were straight line winds with a very strong line of storms as it rolled through. a lot of cleanup to be done today. let me take you to what the concern is today. northeast, you get your day of cleanup, no problems at all in this region for weather during the day today. all of the problems will be out there in the midwest, that's where we'll have the strongest storms. it does look like areas like chicago back through illinois will be dealing with stormy weather and it looks like this region will have a cool weekend. storms through valentine,

nebraska and iowa these are not severe. later this afternoon we expect stronger storms 20 million people in the slight risk area. waterloo down through central illinois, maybe an isolated tornado. how about our other story, the heat wave continues in the southeast. atlanta, 97 today. thankfully this region of the country is going to cool off throughout the upcoming weekend. middle of the country is not cooling off. the other spot that will get hotter, if not hotter than ever will be in the northwest and west. that's the story to watch, the heat wave building in the west. we leave you a shot of washington, d.c., everything is lush and green after a stormy day yesterday. today enjoyable. enjoy it while it lasts. we'll be right back. time upon a once people approached problems the way same. always start at the starting. and questions the same asking. but that only resulted in improvements small. so we step a took back and problems

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so mika following up on your

swastika question we've gone over to ebay and you can find a nazi german swastika 24 gold plated coin and world war ii hitleer nazi stamp and swastika brass multicolored stone art -- >> that's sweet they are not going to do the confederate flag. >> they are not going to do the confederate flag but they have swastikas all over ebay for sale. >> i don't know. >> anyhow -- >> that's interesting, isn't it? >> it's really not -- i think it kind of just discounts -- let's leave businesses out of this -- >> business is a joke. with us now, mike barnicle and john heilemann. >> heilemann is here. >> let's keep going. >> the republican presidential field looks set to expand again.

chris christie could announce his campaign as early as next week. christie finishes sixth in a new poll of the new hampshire primary where donald trump has rocketed to second place after his high profile announcement. >> i'm going to stop for one second. john heilemann, a couple of days ago, you and steve schmidt were saying don't -- >> and david was very upset we were talking about it. >> he was offended and it was shocking and ghastly. but -- it was just offended. >> very offended. i'm sorry, david. >> i love david but the whole day he acted like he smelled something bad onset and perhaps he did, but you and steve schmidt said that they would make a mistake of underestimating donald trump. was driving the second place in new hampshire? >> he's always been a better -- >> name recognition.

>> he's been in more popular in new hampshire than iowa. there's a -- a streak of as we all know stubborn independence in new hampshire and people led by an outsider candidates tend to have better chances up there. he is as we said that day, don't want to underestimate or overestimate him. he's not going to be the republican nominee or president of the united states but he's going to be a factor. he is for many many people the country a symbol of great success and great achievement in money. he is a celebrity. high name recognition. i don't say that to discount it. most people in new hampshire do not know who most of the republicans are but pretty much everybody knows who donald trump is. 10 or 12% of the people in new hampshire, yes. didn't diminish him the other day, not diminishing him now. he's a factor. >> are they just saying we know who he is -- what's --

>> i would say early polls at this early stage in the race have a lot to do with name recognition for anybody. the candidates with higher name recognition do better than those with low name recognition. there are people who like trump. he has this populist fight the power type message. pat buchanan won with a message that's not that different. >> an awful like the message you have people from a distance who don't follow politics closely every day that says these washington politicians have screwed everything up. here's a successful business guy and he's got a big business in manhattan and across the world. he can't do any worse and that's just sort of an instinct. for people who don't sit and read the new york times every day or sit and watch three hours of "morning joe" every day. >> there's always been -- the ap appetite for the outsider candidate stretching bass to ross perot when he won 19% of the general election has always been there. that is part of why trump is not

to be discounted. i don't think he's going to be the republican nominee or president of the united states but why he's going to be a factor in this race. >> i got an e-mail from a really like -- >> good friend of ours. >> member of the "morning joe" family and so upset about the trump interview, why you're so mean with hillary clinton. if hillary clinton came onset she would get the same interview. we're open and want to hear what the candidates have to say. we gave him a full chance to which we would give her as well. it's not about having an awful fight on set. i don't agree a lot of what donald trump says. i wanted to hear him on the issues. the same would go for her. so there's no difference. >> we look forward to that. >> then there's bobby jindal governor of louisiana, set to make a major announcement from new orleans. kasie hunt has more on what would be a long shot bid.

>> we've got to stop being the stupid party. i'm serious, it's time for a new republican party that talks like -- >> reporter: that was bobby jindal in 2013 months after mitt romney lost the general election. >> we've got to compete for every single vote. 47% and the 53% and by the way any other combination that adds up to 100%. >> reporter: jindal was 36 when he was elected governor of louisiana, the first indian-american governor in u.s. history. even before that he was tapped to give the republican response to president obama's first state of the union. it didn't go so well. >> good evening and happy mardi gras. >> reporter: now jindal is trying to step back onto the national stage. >> thank you very much. >> reporter: a born again catholic working to appeal to evangelicals, particularly in iowa. >> our god is an awesome god, amen. >> reporter: recently struck a

tone that surprised even some of his add mirrors, warned about muslim no go zones and sharia law in europe. >> sharia law is not compatible the western notions of freedom of expression and freedom of religion. >> reporter: he had a cameo in duck dynasty, after defending the star. >> here's why it's so hip critical. they say they are for diversity and for tolerance and minority views and opinions unless you disagree with them. >> reporter: jindal's announcement will make him the 13th republican candidate, far back in early polls he could struggle to stand out. >> yes competition is a great thing if you're talking about three or four candidates. how do you break through that crowd? >> we spent the last year and a half, a not for profit coming up with details ideas on health care energy education and foreign policy. i think we need the next

president to do something, not just to somebody who wants to be somebody. >> all right, and kasie hunt joins us now. is it fair to call him a long shot? >> yes, it is. >> how do you know? he's just starting. >> we call him a long shot. >> but that doesn't mean he won't win but a long shot. >> i think it's fair. it's a huge field and right now the top tier is pretty clearly not where jindal is going to be. breaking through the noise will be a chief challenge. one thing i will say as i was going back and looking at governor jindal's record there are people who know hims the guy who called republicans a stupid party. they see him differently than what they think or feel like what he's running as now, as somebody who is playing to social conservatives. but when he ran for governor the second time in many ways he used this socially conservative playbook especially in these

rural areas in louisiana. he took a lot of conservative positions on things like teaching intelligence design for example. it's in line with what he's done before. >> thank you very much. bobby jindal will join us tomorrow on the heels of his announcement. >> going to be exciting. >> we'll see what he says. coming up what's driving the day on wall street? cnbc's sara eisen has business before the bell. bernie sanders joins the discussion. we'll ask the presidential candidate about the pointed fight over trade in washington and massive crowds he's drawing on the campaign trail.

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33 past the hour of the joining us from washington independent senator from vermont and candidate for the democratic party's presidential nomination, bernie sanders, welcome back sir. >> great to be with you. >> how is the campaign trail feeling to you? >> it's feeling quite good. >> it's looking pretty good too. your crowds are hue mun gus, the "washington post" wres this a sort of early warning system that something in brewing in the country that hasn't made its way to the political class back in washington, d.c. do you think those crowds can translate into votes and beating

your opponents? >> i surely absolutely think that they can. look, what exists in the real world, whether it's denver or minneapolis or new hampshire or vermont is different than the discussions that take place in washington where so much of what congress does is dominated by big money. look the average american understands middle class is disappearing, that 99% of all new income is going to the top 1% and that we need fundamental changes in economics and politics so the government begins working for all of us and not just the billionaire class. >> isn't that what hillary clinton is saying? >> no i don't think it is. i think if you look at my life's work, what i've been struggling with for the last 25 or 30 years, i have taken on every element of the big money interest in this country, whether it is wall street the pharmaceutical industry whether it's the military industrial complex, people can judge

hillary clinton's record on their own. >> bernie should they judge hillary clinton's record with a free trade agreements that were passed during the clinton era like nafta, wto and should they judge her by her silence over the last several weeks on the trade pact that is just getting through congress now? >> well look the answer is yes. especially in terms of the fast track process taking place. now, you can be for the tpp, you can be against the tpp. but this is such an enormously important issue, that you have to have a view on it. i personally -- >> is it surprising to you that hillary clinton does not have a view on one of the most important trade issues of our time? >> yes, it is. i think it's surprising to the vast majority of the people. the president supports it. i strongly disagree with him. i think our trade policies have been a disaster.

they have cost us millions of jobs. i'm against them. president is for them. the chamber of commerce is for them but you can't not have a position on an issue of such importance. >> senator sanders, the issues that you highlight during your campaign stump speeches i saw you in new hampshire a couple of weeks ago has people nodding their heads in complete agreement. you're right when you speaking to issues that affect people outside of washington. but you haven't gotten in ring with the nra. you've been -- you didn't vote for the brady bill and your position on guns is not exactly where really mainstream democrats are -- >> well first of all, i come from a state that has virtually no gun control. you know what my lifetime voting record with the nra is? it's about a d minus. i have been very strong and voted for a ban on assault weapons, for background checks to make sure that guns do not

fall into the hands of people who should not have them. i think it is not quite correct to say that i do not have strong positions on gun control. that's something we'll be talking about. >> john heilemann? >> senator sanders, you have made a pretty clear distinction in terms of how you're dealing with secretary clinton, which is to say you're happy to contrast her with her on the issues and not taking her on personally seltd you won't do that. there's a middle ground about the foundation and activity in the state department. do you consider that a personal thing or -- >> yeah i do. there are enough issues out there that are important to the american people our kids can't afford to go to college. the pope reminded us that climate change is one of the great global challenges that we face. we have a situation where one tenth of 1% of the american people own more wealth than the bottom 90%. those issues resonate with the

american people. those are the issues that i will be focusing on. we're going to run an issue-oriented campaign. i've never run a negative ad in my life don't intend to do that. >> the questions that surround secretary clinton and the foundation are those -- is that an issue or would that be --? >> i'll tell you what's a more important issue to me which i find getting very little discussion, that is the koch brothers are going to spend close to $900 million on this campaign more than the democrats and republicans. and that -- because of citizens united makes me very concerned that we're moving towards an al garic type government. we should be talking about their impact on political process. >> let's talk about income dispairrirdis disparity disparity, working class falling behind every week. what does president bernie sanders do? what's the first thing he does to alleviate that discrepancy or

at least reverse the tide? >> first thought, we've got to demand that the wealthy and large corporations start paying their fair share of taxes, can't hide their money in the cayman islands and other tax havens. >> what would there fair share be? should corporate tax rates go up? >> absolutely yes. well without going into a whole long discussion right now, we're going to eliminate all of the loopholes that allow major corporations to stash their money in the cayman islands and in some cases make billions in profit and nostt pay a nickel in taxes. we need to raise the minimum wage to at least $15 an hour over the next couple of years, pay equity for women workers and need to make college, public colleges and universities tuition free. you begin moving down that path you will be addressing issues of

income and wealth inee quaut. >> there are some republicans that say this needs to be raised incremental, you're going to impact jobs and people will lose jobs to make that massive a jump. do you agree? >> i think any time you do anything, there are certain negative impacts but at the end of the day, putting more money into the hands of working people will significantly improve their lives, cut poverty rates and put more disposable income into our economy. so i think what i have seen in those states like my own, which have raised the minimum wage unemployment rates are often quite low compared to other states. >> i see you have six stops planned in new hampshire for this weekend. you are a busy man. senator sanders, thank you very much for coming on show this morning. >> thank you. >> up next walmart may be the world's biggest retailer but now trails facebook in a key category. business before the bell is next.

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time for business before the bell. the final numbers just released. how do they look? >> a little better. turns out the economy only contracted .2%. earlier it was reported to have actually slowed .7%. it's a little bit better it was still a negative number. the good news is that was the first three months of the year we're already in the second quarter and things are looking much, much better. in the first quarter we dealt with a very harsh winter and had the port shutdown. all of these factors are shaping up better housing, jobs all looking firmer. this quarter is tracking more like 3% growth. that was a positive. and in terms of the market an important milestone for facebook, stock trading at an all time high and stock market

value just surpassed walmart, the world's biggest social media companies overtakes the biggest retailer. it doesn't mean much but it is a sign investors are hungry for tech stocks and less hungry for retail stocks. facebook has only been a public company for three years and now the market value is 238 million versus walmart at $234 billion. the changing face of this economy and what companies are doing well. >> it really does. sara eisen, thank you very much. a talking teddy bear like no other. ted is returning to movie theaters across the country. up next one of ted 2's stars, patrick warburt tonon, keep it here. >> i can't believe this. this is nuts. we're going to be on television it's going to be fantastic.

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i'm going to ask a few test questions. >> you're on the stand and the da says ted, do consider yourself to be human? objection, sustained. >> hearsay. >> disregard. >> in night chambers. i rest we can totally be lawyers. >> that was a clip from "ted 2" a sequel with the outrageously inappropriate talking teddy bear. is that what you are, the outrageously inappropriate talking teddy bear. >> i'm not the teddy bear. >> patrick warburton reprized

his role as guy and another role we'll talk to him as well. let's start about "ted 2". >> you want to talk about -- >> i can't stand it. am i the only woman that approached you and said your commercials are scum that you are horrible and that commercial should not be on the air -- >> yes, you are, you are the absolute first. >> i am? >> i don't believe it. >> what's awesome, he picked up somebody else's coffee, which is great. >> do you guys know what i'm talking about? i'm talking to the audience. this is the guy in that commercial and i think in real life i just want to say, i think in real life you might be really nice. >> you say that but he took somebody else's coffee -- >> but it was heilemann. >> that doesn't count. >> that is a pretty polarizing commercial, no? >> gets people talking. >> it does.

it made you remember the car company, didn't you --? >> national. >> kind of. >> all right -- >> it's fun playing jerks, he's a bit of an as he steals coffees and walks through airports and doesn't want to talk to other people. there's a -- there's an element of that that is relatable because when you're in the mess of an airport, the easier things can go for you the better so -- >> i've gotten e-mails from female friends saying you've got to do something on that commercial. the more i think about it you're such a jerk in that commercial that's it's funny. you're such a jerk it's funny. >> let's move on from commercials to movies. >> yeah. >> "ted 2." ted" what a surprise. people were shocked how well it did. what are we going to see here? >> i haven't seen it yet but from what i understand and from what i've seen, it's very current, so it will be fun that

way. it's going to be -- i would hazard to say it's hard to imagine it's going to be funnier or more of a shock than the first one, but it's going to be clever and it will be as funny. >> you have an incredible cast david hasselhoff, jay leno tom brady, jimmy fallon some playing themselves but notables. >> mark wall berg is from boston but when i saw the original "ted" it was like listening to every guy i know and grew up with. it's absolutely hilarious, ted 2 will be just as funny i assume. you play johnny's friend a guy who works with him. you shot the thing in sequence so you haven't seen the movie? >> i haven't seen it yet. i'm in the beginning and end. it's not a huge role. this is a -- me going out and

doing press for this is sim bee symbiotic symbiotic, i got to be in boston for about a month while we shot this. and it was a good time but it's a great cast yeah. >> morgan freeman, i mean it goes on and on. john hielemann, let's take it. >> let's think about your iconic role david putty. >> seinfeld how many people come up to you on street and know you forever as putty. how much times a day does someone call you putty? >> in new york? >> yeah. >> it's sort of daily. yeah. but -- the show is perpetual as i understand -- syndication and i was in 9 episodes they only did four episodes the first season. to have a show like "seinfeld"

as significant as it was and such a large part of our lives in the '90s and only have 180 episodes, it creates the impression that you did more than you did -- >> it's a curious thing for you. you've been an actor for your entire life and played a lot of roles but nine episodes probably defined your public persona more than anything else. >> they do. multicamera show and in risk of being pipe cast the rest of my life so -- >> could be worse but it is kind of -- when you're type cast it's frustrating. >> it can be. you just have to make sure that you -- >> keep pushing through. >> yeah and do different things. >> and do some commercials that really make people mad. >> wow, we'll talk about this. >> i need to work through it take little bit. >> yeah i feel like -- i feel like this is really got you there and i -- >> i don't think so.

i think you're doing just fine. "ted 2" will do great. it hits theaters on friday. >> we can't wait for patrick to watch it. then we're going to get you back and get your review. >> tell us what you think. >> patrick warburton, thank you for coming on. it's nice to meet you. it is. what if anything did we learn today? before earning enough cash back from bank of america to buy a new gym bag. before earning 1% cash back everywhere, every time and 2% back at the grocery store. even before he got 3% back on gas. kenny used his bankamericard cash rewards credit card to join the wednesday night league. because he loves to play hoops. not jump through them. that's the excitement of rewarding connections. apply online or at a bank of america near you. this summer, get ready for suspense. unbridled jealousy. she's still there.

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welcome back, it's time to talk about what we learned today. i will tell you a certain star of "ted 2" hasn't seen the movie yt. i learned that patrick warburton may not have even ted. the jury is out -- >> he's an easy going guy, may not have seen the original. >> what are you doing? >> i learned for all of his twitter troling, bill kristol is in favor of taking down the confederate flag. >> it's all so confusing. >> watch out new hampshire, bernie sanders is coming back your way and i think it will be fun to watch. >> we certainly did learn from bernie, he doesn'tthink hillary's foundation has much to do with the campaign but he is -- he thinks taxes need to be raised on corporations and wealthy

individuals and minimum wage raised to $15 an hour. a lot to like about that. if it's way too early it's "morning joe." the rundown starts right now. >> we'll be all right. don't worry. we'll be all right. look at that. >> oh, my god. >> that's nuts. >> oh, my god. >> this is a tornado -- >> well that was not a tornado but it was a frightening scene on the new jersey shore as a severe summer weather system continued to chris cross the united states. we begin with a big change in the way the u.s. deals with international kidnappers. while the government still refuses to pay ransoms for first time families of the hostages will be allowed to