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if y'all want to translate that political speak into plain english. what jeb bush is saying is we need to hide our conservative ideals. the truth is if we go down that road again, we will lose again. okay. here we go president good morning, everybody. welcome to "morning joe." joining us onset managing editor of bloomberg politics -- >> mika what was going on up at that prison? >> new developments on the prison break. there's another arrest. >> there's a dude putting stuff in meat? >> who amongst us does not put power tools in meat. >> yeah. but you know what i do that as a way to spark conversation. >> now we're getting closer to what happened. >> willie, nobody did this for us when we were in turkey. >> i'm not laughing yet. >> the old-fashioned way. >> two guys on the run. we can laugh -- >> imus is cheering for the killers? >> he said they're so crafty they deserve to go free.

>> that's just sick. thank you. >> you're laughing about it. >> i know. >> seriously, what's with these people? this lady is like in this camp -- >> that's sad. >> love triangle. these guys. and this dude? is he banging them too? like what is going on with these people? >> what? what? >> the prison employee having been arrested yesterday. >> yeah? >> and implicated in the escape. >> you mean like banging the power tools against the wall? >> yeah that's exactly what i meant. >> good. because that is absolutely what you meant and i don't want to talk about this anymore. this is not funny. >> willie what's that about? no seriously. what are they doing up there? >> they need to complete a thorough investigation of their security policy. it is amazing though it's been three weeks now that these guys this close to the prison presumably still on foot with this many people looking for them have alluded authorities. >> yeah. >> hen house and outhouses.

>> we'll have an update. that will be our next single shot of me and joe's mike cut. so we're going to -- >> she's talking about you -- can't they hear that at night? >> no, i'm not -- >> that banging at night? >> no. >> you can't hear that? >> i want no part of this. >> thank you willie. absolutely, stop. okay. so can we do politics because there are some interesting new polls. >> yes. >> this is going to be on halperin. >> a lot of drilling going on for them not to hear. to be able to cut through that. >> dan nor wick is in your ear and he is telling you -- >> let's talk politics. democratic race for presidents changing this morning in a brand new bloomberg poll suggests bernie sanders is chipping away at hillary clinton's commanding leads. >> clinton has dropped seven points since last month while sanders has climbed 8% to 24%. must be just strange. like a sarah palinesque thing,

right? it's just not serious, right? challenges martin o'malley and lincoln chafee made barely a mark. in new hampshire clinton see a declines to six points equal to sanders six-point gain. it's not serious. no one takes them seriously. >> it's a lot like pat buchanan and george herbert walker bush in '82. bernie sanders is still a long way from threatening to beat her in the nomination but in these two states polled iowa and new hampshire simultaneously he is now within 25 pints of her and he may not beat her but he can create a lot of trouble for her ebbs tend the nomination fight, pull her further to the left. watts interesting about these polls is in these two states where obviously the voters are paying the close attention, a lot closer nationally. and on things like willingness to fight wall street he's doing better than her in voters' view. people say they're voting for

him not because of a protest but because they like him. if on a primary night, caucus night, he got a quarter of the vote that would be trouble for her. >> i don't think the clinton people are laughing it off. >> i don't think they are at this point. >> i think they're looking at the effectiveness of his message and they will work on their own which is what should be happening. >> i shouldn't say laugh it off but they're spinning expectations saying, well, if she got 50% of the vote that will be good enough p this shows he has grown a lot and voters like him for reasons he's doing better with men than she is. and he is seen as a credible person. >> so, that on the democratic side. on the republican side, willie another person that people keep laughing off, donald trump. a person that i guess, david remnick was shocked and stunned and saddened that we brought up as if we were just doing it for the hell of it is donald trump

at 11% in a fox news poll. a lot of people wondered whether the last poll that showed him in second place in new hampshire was a joke. this is no joke. republican party leaders are nervous. >> we showed that poll yesterday from new hampshire that had donald in second place. now you have a national poll that shows the same thing. so you can laugh at your own peril because when that fox debate happens and it's coming up quickly on august 6th and they're taking the top ten, donald trump is going to be there. he's going to be on that stage and he's going to change the dynamic of that conversation. we h has no fear. he's going to say whatever he wants on that stage. he's going to force people into uncomfortable moments and it will make things very -- >> mark halperin, you look at the suffolk poll. he's within the margin of ef reporter in first place. unlike herman cain who jumped to first place four years ago for a while, rick perry for a while, michele bachmann for a while. here you have donald trump who

has been around the block a few times. this isn't his first rodeo. he understands pr, he understands the press. he knows how to draw huge crowds. he's been doing it forever. best-selling book 20 30 years ago. and he's got billions and billions of dollars to stay in the race as long as he wants to. a lot of republicans are fearful if he doesn't win there he will go independent and do what ross perot did to another bush in '92. >> there are some states you've got laws that wouldn't allow him to run as an independent but if you look at the new hampshire polls, leave the national polls aside for a second. in our new hampshire poll that's on bloomerpolitics.com right now you see bernie sanders do well because look at new hampshire, they voted for pat buchanan. they like an outsider who is kicking the establishment in the face or lower. trump is the same thing. his -- in a crowded field, 16 candidates, a billionaire who can get attention, you know, he's going to potentially grow support. and normally what happens when somebody like a michele bachmann

or herman cain rise what happens? they get scrutiny. some from their opponents. sometimes just from the press on its own. when trump gets scrutiny is that going to make him less popular? i don't know that it would. >> i don't think so. >> i don't know that normal physics of political scrutiny apply to him. >> a lot of it's already baked in with donald trump. you've seen the good the bad, the ugly. >> he's gotten a ton. >> he's still where he is. see this yesterday, mika. a surprise, surprising apology in a death sentence. that's rattled boston. >> yeah. dzhokhar tsarnaev is facing death by injection after being formally sentenced for the boston bombings. he broke his silence for the first time in more than two years at the hearing. apologizing to his victims and their families. after three hours of emotional statements from survivors and victims' families tsarnaev said in part quote, i am sorry for the lives that i've taken, for the suffering that i've caused you, for the damage that i've

done. irreputable damage. and i prayed forral la to bestow his mercy upon the deceased. those affected in the bombing and their families. but the judge did not buy the apology, telling tsarnaev that whenever his name is mentioned, people will remember the four individuals who are killed and the 260 who were injured, survivors had mixed reactions about whether his apology was sincere. >> our lives will never be the same again. i live a block from the finish line and my neighborhood has changed forever. and i regret having ever wanted to hear him speak because what he said showed no remorse, no regret, and no empathy for what he's done to our lives. >> i have come to a place of peace, and i genuinely hope that he does as well. and for me to hear him say that he's sorry, that is enough for me.

and i -- i hope because i still do have faith in humanity including in him, i hope that his words were genuine. i hope that they were heartfelt. >> joining us now from boston is one of the survivors of the bombing. scott, it's great to have you with us this morning. you spoke yesterday inside the courtroom. you didn't buy the apology from tsarnaev. why didn't you? >> i basically felt similar to lynn as several other survivors, that during the -- i had been to part of the trial, and during the trial he never really showed any facial expression emotion. and then yesterday, after we as a victim spoke and gave our impact statement to get up there and state that, you know he was sorry, it just -- it didn't feel sincere. you know? i have been suffering for two

years with injuries that i'll have for the rest of my life as the rest of the other survivors. i mean they're not going away my injuries. so his words at the very end are not going to make me feel better for what -- i'm 45 years old. i have a whole life ahead of me with my three kids my family. and this scar from that injury will always be there. >> talk about the hidden and invisible injuries that you still suffer through every day, that people can't see. >> yes. so i was a marathon runner that day and finished three seconds before the first bomb went off. as a result i have bilateral hearing loss so i wear hearing aids. in addition, i have some ptsd symptoms as well as mild traumatic brain injury. all of those injuries you can't see on the outside. so to everybody that meets me i look completely normal as a

family physician, i present myself very well. but inside i every day have struggles. the hearing aids are not in i can't hear things. i process things very differently than i did two years ago. my working memory on a day-to-day basis is very slowed. and these are things as a constant reminder of me running my dream, the boston marathon for the first time in april of 2013. >> as you move forward, scott, and work on recovering, which as you say, some of these injuries will be with you forever, bottom line, that apology rang hollow to you. >> yes. and so -- that was one of my reasons for speaking yesterday, is i live in alabama. i don't live up here. i wanted the voice not only of mine but of the other survivors

that have these hidden and invisible injuries to be heard. and for the judge and prosecution, the defense, and even, you noekser he wasknow, he was even looking at us as we were speaking. but just to get the word out that these injuries are real they're significant, they're lifelong. we're going to be dealing with them for the rest of our lives. and we don't want to be forgotten. >> we hear you. >> yeah. >> scott weisberg, thank you very very much. thanks for being on. >> thank you, scott. greatly appreciate it. we're going to turn to upstate new york where a second prison employee has now been arrested in the investigation into the elaborate escape earlier this month. gene palmer, a guard at the clinton correctional facility who worked in the so-called honor block housing richard matt and david sweat has been charged with promoting prison contraband contraband, tampering with physical evidence and official misconduct.

those charges carry prison sentences ranging from 15 months to 7 years. his attorney says he will enter a plea of not guilty. it all comes as the search for the two fugitives continues this morning in the densely wooded town of owls head new york 20 miles away from the prison. that's where we find once again nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk. >> what can you tell us about gene palmer? what incentive would a prison guard have putting his future on the line for two of the worst murderers in the prison? >> well, these are incredible details coming out here this morning, joe. you know we've got our hands on the criminal complaint. according to the criminal complaint, he gave these inmates tool in exchange for their artwork. it must have been pretty nice artwork to put himself in this kind of jeopardy. according to the criminal complaint he gave them needle nose priors as well as a screw driver. in exchange for the paintings. also immediately following the escape he destroyed the

paintings, burning them and then burying them. now, earlier this week the da told us that joyce mitchell told him she had buried tools in hamburger meat and smuggled them into the prison and then turned them over to gene palmer who then handed them to the inmates. this is what his lawyer had to say about that particular aspect of this case last night. >> he did pass the hamburger meat. he shouldn't have done it. he's apologized for it. he had no knowledge that there were any contraband other than the meat itself. he had no knowledge that joyce mitchell had hidden contraband inside of the meat. the district attorney has gone on record by saying he had no knowledge he was planning on escaping. he passed a polygraph test. he had no knowledge that these two individuals were going to attempt an escape. >> reporter: palmer posted

$25,000 bail and he also very early this morning pled not guilty to these charges. his lawyer tells us that he's shocked by all of this. he didn't know that they were going to come down. there was a surprise to them. and that he's devastated by the charges. guy, back to you. >> wow. nbc stephanie gosk. >> stephanie, you said it best that must have been some really good artwork. wow. >> yeah. stephanie, thank you. >> do you believe that? >> look forward to more reporting from you. >> mike halperin that's bizarre. >> a little bizarre. upstate new york prison i mean -- >> there's so much more that's going to come out of this story. >> something else. it doesn't add up. >> what is going on in there. >> you don't put everything on the line for a celebrity paint that a guy did. >> there's so much more. tomorrow morning -- >> and the meat up there tastes like metal. i don't know why. >> okay. okay. can i please -- >> aftertaste. >> aftertaste. >> say something serious. >> what's that? this is serious. tomorrow, "morning joe" will

be live in charleston south carolina, as president obama delivers the eulogy for state senator pinckney. we'll be joined by the city's mayor joe riley, congressman jim clyburn. still ahead this morning, governor rick scott of florida joins us for an exclusive interview. also senator claire mccaskill. up next, michael hayden is here along with steve rattner. but first, bill karins. >> ever driven in a slushy? is that like the ice kraem man in town? >> it's almost yeah like a slushy. let me show you the pictures out of colorado. it was a hailstorm and then started pouring rain. all rain took the hail and funneled it there throughout the roads. it almost looks like a slushy on the roads. didn't cause too much damage. just made for some pretty amazing pictures. flooding once again will be a possibility. flash flooding through colorado and up towards rapid city. other areas of concern today,

heavy rain flash flooding from areas in illinois iowa into indiana this morning. a lot of heavy rain coming down with the thunderstorms. as far as the travel goes interstate 70 between st. louis and indianapolis by far the worst drive in the morning. flash flooding is a possibility here throughout the day. can cassity, columbia all of the way to st. louis. let's talk about severe weather. cold front will try to slice down toward cincinnati and washington, d.c. all of my friends in the d.c. area there could be an isolated tornado late this afternoon toward this evening. especially washington, d.c., southward, towards the richmond/norfolk area. here's how it's going to time out. showers and thunderstorms form. and then they travel to the south down towards richmond towards about 10:00 p.m. and the other huge story is this heat wave that's going build in the northwest, watch boise. 95 today. we go to 102 on friday. boise on saturday. i'm predicting 107 degrees in the pacific northwest and

interior west is going to be incredibly hot, historically hot. we leave you in shot of washington, d.c. again, a calm morning. it's going to be a stormy afternoon. you're watching "morning joe." you wouldn't order szechuan without checking the spice level. it really opens the passages. waiter. water. so why would you invest without checking brokercheck? check your broker with brokercheck. body pain? motrin helps you be an

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secretary of state john kerry is preparing to leave for vienna tomorrow just five days remain for the u.s. to reach a possible nuclear deal with iran. it comes as the associated press obtained a draft document that purportedly shows the u.s. is ready to send iran high-tech nuclear reactors and equipment if an agreement is breached reached. but critics of the deal say the u.s. is making too many concessions. and a group that includes five former advisers to president obama is now warning that the possible deal may fall short of what the white house considered a good agreement. also complicating the talks, iran's supreme leader is opposing a long-term freeze on nuclear research and demand that all sanctions be lifted before

iran signs any agreement. but secretary kerry says his comments were quote, fordow mess tick political consumption and that they will not affect negotiations. >> what matters to us is what is agreed on the within the four corners of a document. and that is what is yet to be determined. so it may be that the iranians will not fill out the full measure of what was agreed on luzon in which case there will not be an agreement. we've been very very clear that we're not going to negotiate in public. i am not tweeting. i am not making speeches nor is president obama. we are committed to going vienna and engaging. >> joining us now former director of the cia and nsa now principle at the chertoff group,

retired michael hayden and "morning joe" economic analyst, rattner. >> general, you've had concerns about the deal. how deefl? >> not good, joe. secretary's point about what really matters is in the document. actually that's only half of what's important. what matters is what the iranians do to live up to the terms in the final document. in that sense what the supreme leader says really matters. so he may have been posturing but i wouldn't bet the farm on that. >> what dwobmentes have happened over the past month that cause you the greatest concern? >> i was actually stunned about ten days ago the secretary made his first public appearance after his injure. and he talked about the possible military dimensions of the program, the previous activities actually weaponize a nuclear device. and number one he said, you know, that's not really as important as some people were suggesting it is. number two, they don't really have to come clean before an agreement -- >> didn't the separation administration themselves suggest this is important in the early phase? >> this is a walk back from the

previous position. >> how many walkbacks have they had? >> i don't know that sanctions are going to snap back? i don't know that we're going to get previous military dimensions of the program explained before we sign and i don't think we're getting any time anywhere inspections. and all of those really do have to be preconditioned. >> so not that we really know what's going on on the inside but when you set to negotiate things that we've discussed over the years, is that you are prepared to walk back a little bit. is this within the parameters or are you saying this feels like it's outside the par ramameters of what's appropriate? >> this is outside the perimeter parameters. when this thing came out i really held my fire because we left an ugly baby for this administration in terms of the iranian nuclear program. if we had had a better idea we would have done it. i'm trying to be generous here. but the longer we go on the more we seem to be willing to concede things that i think -- i think most people, joe, you

mentioned, you had five former obama administration officials saying you've got to have these things in the deal otherwise you should walk. >> so where does that leave us? do we just walk and of course we have the other five nations with us on this. and the question of how far they're willing to go on sanctions or whether they're el willing to give in and sign the deal as it's evolving. >> steve that's the perverse dynamic of these negotiations. we have walked the other five to this point. and we've done it. all right? it's our negotiating style. not the french who have been tougher. we've walked them to this point so that if now we pull the plug and back out, we really do run the risk of what you are describing happening, which is the other five saying, why are you guys backing away now because you're in essence, you're the one breaking stride, not us. >> what do we do? >> like i told you, this is an ugly baby and i don't have a really good plan "b." >> we have to have a plan "b," righting, something. >> i said joe, the last time i was on here i said we've gone

from no deal is better than a bad deal to steve, right now, i think we're at any deal is better than no deal. and i think that's a really bad place. we cannot appear or actually want the deal more than the iranians do. >> right. i get all that. we've also agreed that we can't just walk back on our own. we need to have these other five countries with us. france is tougher but -- >> obviously we have to start talking more aggressively with france and with the other countries. obviously russia is not going to be alongside of us. but we're going to have to start talking aggressively. if you have a president who is so desperate to do a deal with the iranians just as he was desperate in 2008 to open up relations with the iranians that in 2009 he ignored the slaughter of innocent iranians in the street he's not thinking plan "b." so if you don't have a commander in chief that's not talking to the french and not talking to our other allies and saying

listen, we may need to step this back because right now the best thing we can do is walk away from the table and see if the iranians want to move forward again, then you're not going to have the plan "b." it's not up to the general or myself or anybody else to say this is plan "b qult." that's the president of the united states to say. i'm sorry, we've been saying it here for a long time he's so desperate with a deal with the iranians that the iranians are walking over him. you across the negotiating table with another businessman or businesswoman, you would run all over somebody that was so desperate for a deal that you just kept getting away with one after another after another provocation. >> well, i have been in a lot of negotiations. i do know there's something we call in business deal fever where you just get so into the deal that the deal becomes the objective rather than the substance of what's actually in the deal. >> from what you've seen do you think that the president has deal fever with the iranians?

>> i think there's a lot of internal pressure and desire to get a deal done. i will say it's more complicated than the average business deal because he's got these other five countries sitting over here. yes, the russians can walk away but the sanctions will not be effective unless we have the whole group together. >> that's correct. so we have created a circumstance for we may have isolated ourselves at the negotiations if we pull back. joe, can i add an additional point though. look, maybe we don't need to know the possible military dimensions. i think we do. all right? i really do. >> i agree. >> but we're betting the farm not on being -- stopping them from weaponizing. we're betting the farm on stopping them from creating material. the secretary could actually argue that we're going to take our chances here with some lack of knowledge about the weaponization because we're confident we can stop the building of material. if that's the case say it. don't come out and say, as he did, we don't need them to tell us what they did weaponizing

because we have quote, absolute knowledge, unquote, of what they've done in the past. which is just simply untrue. >> not true. >> general, what is the deal breaker then for president obama? what's the one thing if he doesn't extrabt from the iranians he must walk away from the table? >> i think you do need the know the history of the program. the one that really breaks though is anywhere any time inspections. first nsc meeting i was president obama's chief. he asked how much liu they have. i said, mr. president, i know that answer and i'll give it to you in a minute but there's not an electron or neutron that is ever going to show up in a weapon. what they're building there is technology. they will go to heu at a secret site, now, at time we thought it was againgoem and it was and it could be somewhere else. that's why we need anywhere, any time. they're going to do it somewhere else secret and you've got to be able to go there. >> supreme leader says you may not have any time anyway and

then what happens? >> in my mind that means there's no deal. >> general michael hayden thank you very much for your insight. steve, stay with us. coming up national journal's ron fornier joins us. ♪ mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys ♪ ♪ don't let'em pick guitars and drive them old trucks ♪ boys? ♪ mamas, don't let your babies...♪ stop less. go more. the passat tdi clean diesel with up to 814 hwy miles per tank. hurry in and you can get 0% apr plus a one-thousand dollar volkswagen credit bonus on 2015 passat tdi clean diesel models. ready to leave sticky sunscreens behind? new neutrogena cooldry sport. micromesh technology lets sweat pass through and evaporate so skin stays comfortable, while clinically proven protection stays on. new cooldry sport.

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opinion pages editorial director ron fournier. ron, good to have you onboard. mark halperin is a back at the table. >> how are you doing? >> a little uneven. did you see cabrera give away his bat and ball to a cleveland indians fan? >> great stuff. >> we do that all the time. >> i like the guy who caught the ball with the baby. >> pretty good. >> i bet he got trouble at home. >> what this. >> don't you think he got in trouble being that close with the baby in his arm. >> i think he knew what he was saying. >> honey, next time, could you put the beer down? >> he was -- he was feeding the baby at the same time. amazing. >> beer bottle babies. plit aolitico, the stupid party's candidate. in 2013 louisiana governor bobby jindal called on the gop to stop being the stupid party. a former rhodes scholar with serious policy chops.

he appeared perfectly positioned to elevate the discussion of ideas, instead, jindal has chosen to run in 2016 as the stupid party's standard-bearer. wow. it's possible jindal will emerge from the back of the pack of some stage of the game but it's just as likely the dumbed down versions of jindal will never catch fire. a governor who reshaped his state by overhauling the education and medicaid systems now hardly talks substance at all. is that true? >> i think it's true. he's got a record in louisiana that's going to be hard to run on. nine credit downgrades. huge budget down fall. trickle down economics has not worked. tuition has gone up 48% in that state, in large part because of the cuts he's imposed. his campaign rationale is going to be hard, i think. >> mark halperin? >> extraordinarily impressive guy i'm not saying that republicans should care about running in the media primary but he could be getting great media coverage because he's always known and liked reporters. and they respect his intellect

and his policy smarts but he's not run that way. >> how is he running? what's he talking an't? >> he's running as trying to be as far to the right and without policies specific cls. he has some specific policy plans but he barely mentioned them last night in his speech. i don't -- i don't think his chances -- is just as likely not to catch on. he's less likely to catch on running like this. in part just on the sheer politics besides not really showing his brain power. he's not running as someone special and different. he's competing with seven different guys in the exact same lane. >> his problems are not all that different from chris christie's in new jersey which is he's a dynamic figure smart guy, very impressive. in his home state when you dig in a little bit his popularity is low. jindal is at 32% or something like that. >> more popular in louisiana than -- >> way more popular. >> they have problems there in that state. all right. "wall street journal," a bush versus a clinton. this is danielle henninger. jeb bush has a chance to tell his skeptical country he

understands the responsibilities of an american president because he knows how his father and brother succeeded or stumbled. there is much to admire in both those presidencies but if an honest appraisal requires criticism of them so be it. own man has to mean more than a promise promise. hillary, answer -- for hillary, answering why america needs another clinton is well, trickier. if indeed she or her campaign think it is a subject worth bothering with at all. but mrs. clinton has now spent 12 years close to a presidency surely she has views on what reason there is for holding that office beyond one tease name. >> i would take a different take. important for both clinton and bush to run towards the weaknesses of their brands and show how they can be different. for bush it would be here's the mistakes we made in the run-up to iraq. here's what i would do differently. >> what i learned because i was so close to it the center. >> for clinton -- >> loyalty. he talks about loyalty. >> you can be loyal to your

brother, loyal to your father and still say this is what i learned from my brother and my father. for clinton, for her what she should be doing is running towards the downside of clinton which was authenticity and honesty and credibility and all the problems in the '90s. instead of talking about how she's going to restore public trust and faith and government and faith in political leaders, she's done a lot to undermine it. >> she's been caught up in her own psycho dramas but yet to be brought in to the psycho dramas of the clinton years and relationship with her husband. jeb bush has been totally emeshed in the psycho dramas. >> she will be. she will run towards it. >> it's just not hard. it's just not personal and jeb is making it way too personal. i remember when we were running newt gingrich out of town my motherered, why are you being so mean to that man. i said, mom, i love you. nothing personal. but if you were running the house like this and you were backing down on spending cuts i would run you out of town as speaker, too. she laughed.

>> you would not run mary joe out of town. >> yes, i would. i said it's not personal mom, but i would, in a second go to you and say mom, i love you, it's time for you to leave. i mean this is not a personal business. it's about doing the country's business. and if you aren't tough enough to say, i love my brother but he really screwed up going into iraq. >> these are advantages for both of them. >> i should be. >> people want to see growth. people want to see that you're willing to learn from your past mistakes. turn to his father and brother and say, you're wonderful men, pivot off that but also talk about the mistakes. >> heading up to the peninsula any time soon? >> upper part of peninsula next week. >> fishing? >> fishing, hunting, a lot of walking in the woods. >> ron fournier thank you very very much. all right. >> that's what you think. he talks about the u.p. and you go ticks?

>> what's that country song, "are you going to check me for ticks"? >> i don't know. i'm going write it. >> i'm going to leave it there. up next -- >> william faulkner said once that history is not was, it's is. and what we need to remember about the civil war is that the civil war is in the present as well as in the past. >> filmmaker ken burns is here with a remastered version of his award winning documentary "the civil war." >> what timing. >> 25 years after its original release. the conversation just ahead on "morning joe."

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it, in virginia and in south carolina carolina. they didn't do it, i did it. >> that's the way to go. >> willie others talked about it alabama's governor just did it. they just took them down. >> just take it down. >> there's been a lot of hammering in south carolina and mississippi. >> special session. >> this guy just took the flag down. >> take it loun and legislate if you want to fight me put it back up. let's have that fight. >> they were talking yesterday in our show you know, the concept was maybe the flag has wind damage and they can, you know do a little special, i guess, legislative action take it down for a few hours. take it down. >> take it found for the funeral, certainly. >> director and producer of pbc documentary series "the civil war," ken burns. pbs is going to remaster the high definition version of this extraordinary series. i still remember 25 years later. mike barnicle with us as well.

ken, we were just talking about there is still a battle over what this battle was about 100 years later. 130 years later. >> barbara in the tease said the civil war is still going on. it's still being fought. it can still be lost which means a lot of these issues and the flag is the symbolic representation of these issues are still with us. and we've got to have now a courageous conversation about this. we're not having it. we're pushing stuff around the plate. we need to link the gardners we need to link the brown, we need to link ferguson we need to link all of these things and understand that this issue of slavery is our original sin and when we escape its specific gravity we grow as a country and this is one of those inflexion moments. >> what is fascinating though is there are still debates over what the civil war is about at the beginning and the people in the north say it was about slavery. most people in the south say it's about slavery. i remember shelby foot

preeminent civil war historian who says anybody who thinks the civil war was about slifry ryslavery, i don't know if he said is dadgum crazy. i remember being jarred by hearing that from a historian. >> i think what happens is we build up over time this sebsnse of why it came political social economic. if you read south carolina talking about south carolina south carolina's art articles of successkcession succession, in love or lincoln, they don't mention state's right, they don't mention nullification. they mention slavery over and over again. the single greatest economic -- >> a lot of confederate leaders do. >> of course they do. >> at the very start of the war. >> of course they do. what's complicated is of course when robert e. lee was offered the head of the union army he turned it down and said i cannot raise my sword against he country by which he meant virginia. what happens before the civil war and after the civil war is when you say my country, you no longer mean your state.

you mean the whole country, the nation, the one thing. we used to say the united states are, plural now we say the united states is singular and ungrammatically. you don't see these group of people is good looking. >> yeah. >> that's what the civil war was fought for. these are the symbolic residual issues we're dealing with. those flags came in after brown versus board of education. this is not about heritage. this is about resistance to civil rights. >> separate it for us further. former senator jim webb gave a speech yesterday or the day before praising the courage and the honor of those who fought confederate soldiers in the war. that is one issue. it's a fairly noble issue that he spoke to. but the hundred years difference, 1864 toward the end of the civil war and 1954 brown versus board of education and the flag. >> look we all understand more is a powerful magnet of courage and obviously the worst of us

but also the best of us. but this was an army defending the institution of slavery. that's at the end of the day what you have to deal with. they were defending something which i think most of us feel is a rep prehengs i believe thing, particularly in a country that is advertising four score and five years before that all men are created equal. and the guy who wrote that owns a couple hundred human beings. we're constantly thrown back into this. when do we begin to connect the dots and start talking about the kind of new jim crow that municipality like ferguson imposing on citizens all of these per nishs fines and problems. and relationship to our prisons and to the flag? symbols are important and this one needs to go. as the president said as the republican governor of south carolina said, belongs in a museum. >> first of all ken, i can't believe it's been 25 years. >> yeah. >> 25 years. >> gray. >> where did that quarter of a century go? >> yeah. >> what's the best you think that the come out of the horror

that we saw a week ago last wednesday in south carolina? we always have these, quote, national conversations and they seem to pass without much change taking place. >> that's right. >> what can we do to seize this moment? >> feels a lot like the gay marriage things. all of a sudden nobody wanted to talk about, all of a sudden search for it. this flag thing has switched it's moved. we need to find a way to talk about it. it has to do with having courageous conversations. that kid is not a lone wolf. >> yeah. >> these people learn these things. i have lynching photographs from the 1920s, and there are little kids in there and everybody is smiling at this horribleably mained body. those people may still be alive. what are they teaching their children and grandchildren. we need to have a real come to jesus conversation with ourselves. >> ken, thank you. just curious, with the alabama flag going down. he can just -- what made it different that the governor could just take it down?

>> south carolina written a rule to protect it so it needs legislate tive action. >> alabama doesn't have the same? >> no. so they need to go in in south carolina. in alabama it could be taken down by executive action. it can't now in south carolina. and so they have to get the legislature to rule on get will good move in alabama. "the civil war" will rebroadcast on pbs over five consecutive nights in september. ken burns. >> it looks gorgeous, too. >> can't wait to see it. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe."

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of excitement that this evil attack would lead to reconciliation restoration, and unity in our nation. those are powerful words. it is with great sadness and amazing hope that our future as a nation has been changed.

>> and it's the top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, anchor for the blaze tv amy holmes and host of "the last word" lawrence o'donnell. mark halperin still with us as well with new bloomberg polls. along with willie joe, and me. >> lawrence, a lot of change happening very quickly following a tragedy. as ken burns said earlier, not removing something that's part of the south's heritage since the civil war, but more like since brown v. board. >> yeah. the alabama flag which came down yesterday was put up on april 25th, 1963. that day was not randomly chosen. that was the day that the attorney general robert kennedy was coming to governor george wallace, the democratic party segregationist governor most of them were democratic party segregationist governors at that time, to tell him that if he carried out his public threat to

stand in the doorway to block the first african-american students coming to the university of alabama, he would be crushed by the government of the united states of america. and that is exactly what happened. he did carry out his threat to stand on the doorway, national guard on the orders of president john kennedy, pushed him aside. that's what had to happen. but what made that flag go up is george wallace's way of saying to bobby kennedy, i'm here to fight you, i'm here to defy you. so the flag in its new incarnation, 20th century incarnation, was nothing but a message of defiance and defiance directly to the government of the united states of america. >> and amy, obviously a lot happening very quickly since this tragedy. we've got governors across the deep south now saying take it down. >> indeed. and i think long overdue, frankly. as lawrence points out these flags going up in the middle of the 20th century.

these claims that these have been state symbols of a couple hundred years simply isn't true. and for a lot of americans the confederate flag is by its nature divisive because the confederacy after all was to succeed from the union. it sort of sends the message that the wrong side won in that conflict. but that's for the state to decide and i think as state symbol it's inappropriate. i do understand the confederate flag also is a symbol of southern pride and you know standing up to the north at least culturally. so individuals wearing it putting it as a bumper sticker on their truck or on a t-shirt i think can have a different meaning. but flying on state propt i think is inappropriate. >> no. >> you know who didn't think it had any redeeming value after the war? robert e. lee. he was opposed to the flying of the confederate flag after the civil war. >> we're going to be talking more about this as we get an update on the situation in charleston. we're headed to charleston. we're going to be doing the show there tomorrow morning preceding the funeral service tomorrow afternoon where the president

will be delivering the eulogy. so look forward to that for sure. important moment in this country's history. >> yeah. let's turn to some politics now. we have halperin here for that. democratic race for president is changing this morning as a brand new bloomberg poll has bernie sanders chipping away at hillary clinton's commanding leads. in iowa clinton has dropped seven points from last month while sanders has climbed 8 to 24%. challengers martin o'malley and lincoln chafee. race continues to tight nn new hampshire where clinton sees a decline of six points, equal to sanders' six-point gain. >> mark halperin obviously there are other polls that have it even closer than that. people talking about eugene mccarthy 1968. you liken it more to the threat of pat buchanan and george h.w. bush in 1992 where you don't have to win but you get etch in the high 30s, low 40s. and suddenly that's a huge national story. >> part of why our poll doesn't

show it closer in new hampshire than a the others and we polled simultaneously in iowa and new hampshire is because we used a screen that's tighter. this is more representative of who we any will actually turn out to vote. and that's why this is -- got a lot of a cautions for hillary clinton. with that group, people paying attention in iowa in new hampshire, where we polled our colleagues and college. bernie sanders doing better with voters on who is more authentic and who is more willing to take on wall street and elite financial interest. those are two big issues. not just for democratic voters but in the electorate in general. you think about pat buchanan who did so well in 1992 against an incumbent president. those kind of qualities right now are very much out there. and the polls, iowa and new hampshire simultaneous almost identical. the traits she does well on versus the traits sanders does well organization almost identical. these are places where hillary clinton is going to have to do well and beat expectations

doesn't mean she will lose the nomination. just as bu kansas really wounded george herbert walker bush in '92, sanders has right now according to our polling the capacity to really pin her down make her have a long nomination fight and spend resources time there and maybe pull to the left. >> lawrence, on that authenticity question, hillary clinton has coopted the message that bernie sanders has been preaching for most of his career which is income inequality fighting wall street. she's borrowing some of that bernie sanders language and elizabeth warren language and trying to make it her own. >> that's the fun of politics you don't get to copyright the lyrics of your song. anyone can come on and cover you the next day. mark, to clarify this technical point in the bloomberg poll group said you tightened the filter so that the number actually is more favorable to hillary clinton than if you used a wider sample. >> yeah. i mean it may be counter intuitive to some but we tried to find people who are more likely using the voter file to turn out to vote in the caucuses

in iowa in the primary in new hampshire. >> mark, can i ask something about that because the bernie sanders phenomenon like the gene mccarthy phenomenon turns on enthusiasm and it turns on liberal enthusiasm. and so they -- the mccarthy campaign got voters that weren't going to vote. >> right. >> and so i'm wondering if bernie sapders has that same capacity. >> exactly. well lawrence i absolutely agree with you because he's got to bring in new people. come sis effected people who maybe don't historically vote or independents who vote for rand paul in the republican primary or caucus for rand paul. the snapshot we have here though shows something we found in our focus groups in both states as well, which is a lot of democrats who are activists who might be more inclired toward bernie sanders say in this poll overwhelmingly, even people who vote for bernie sanders now say hillary clinton is going to win, hillary clinton is better on foreign policy. there's a certain calculation that some people are making that even if they are more inclined tosanders, hillary

clinton is their bet to keep the white house, keep the republicans from having unified control. i think you put your finger on one of the challenges for sanders if he's going to grow over time, which is can he bring in new people and convince the people currently playing to vote, you know what, you may like hillary clinton's chances of winning but sanders is more with you on some of the issues. >> lawrence should team hillary be concerned about sanders? >> yes. i think the buchanan phenomenon if you use that model, was one where what he did was he loosened any enthusiasm there might have been in the republican party for george bush. and so it's not like you know the people who voted for pat buchanan in new hampshire then went and voted for the democrat. it's that it broke their connection to this incumbent republican president. the little flaw in the model is when we say mccarthy and we say buchanan they are challenging incumbent t ps of their own

party. hillary clinton is not an incumbent president but we are, i think, mark, we're kind of assume that she polls in effect like an incumbent president. >> she polls like an incredibly strong incumbent president. let's go to the republican side, amy. some polls coming out that are making the doubters of donald trump -- >> what doubters of donald trump? >> sackcloth and ashes. let's look at the latest donald trump poll. this is fox "newsnation" wide. jeb bush in first at 15. donald trump at 11%. of course, there was the suffolk poll out of new hampshire that we showed last hour and a couple days ago that also shows donald trump. statistically dead heat, first place, with -- there we go with jeb bush. the question is who should be afraid of donald trump? republican party itself? >> certainly the republican party and all of those other contenders where donald trump is drowning them out and drowning

out their message because he's able to attract so much attention to the donald trump circus that comes to town. but what you're also seeing on the conservative side, earlier we were talking about scrutiny and scrutiny hurt donald trump among conservatives. it certainly does in the conservative press they're saying donald trump isn't really actual akon serve tive. he's a populous, protectionist, crony capitalist. he does suffer when it comes to conservative scrutiny. >> doesn't look like he's suffering though. >> he's not yet. it's very early on. donald trump -- >> donald trump doesn't strike me as the type that's going to suffer though. >> suffer policy wise. >> he's talking populous issues that ross perot talked about. >> right. >> and ross perot didn't win the primary. obviously he was a spoiler. >> he also didn't have 20 republicans running gaims against him in a primary. i'm just wondering whether 15%, trump's 15% helps him come in first or second in the first couple of states. >> i think it's far too early to

talk about the first couple of states. we haven't even gotten to the debate stage yet. >> are you a trump fan? >> am i a trump fan? i don't watch his tv shows if that's what you're asking. politically, no. i think the birther business was very discrediting of donald trump, obviously. again, scrutiny on donald trump policy wise does him no favors. >> big field, joe. 13 republicans vying for the party's nomination. this after louisiana's bobby jindal entered the race last night. two-term governor former congressman, not mincing my words when it comes to his conservative ideal, his faith, and his opponents. >> democratic rve democrats evaluate the success in terms of prosperity of government. we define success in terms of the prosperity of our people. i know that some believe i talk about my faith too much but i will not be silenced. i will not be silenced in order to meet their expectations a

political correctness. you've heard jeb bush say we need to be willing to lose the primary in order to win the general election. we're going to help him do that. >> let me translate that. y'all want to translate that political speak into plain english. what jeb bush is say is that we need to hide our conservative ideals. but the truth is if we go down that road again, we will lose again. americans don't play to lose. president obama has it wrong. secretary clinton has it wrong. our allies need to trust us. our enemies need to fear us. it is time we play to win again. >> mark halperin governor jindal become called a long shot upside-down side to his candidacy. >> well, the upside is that he is one of the most talented and

exceptional people of his generation in brain power and he's got a pretty accomplished director in talking about policy issues across the board. the downside is he's got 14 people to climb over or so to get to the top of the heap and his record as we said before in louisiana, is going to be tough to defend and run on. >> on that downside lawrence o'donnell, we have allen green black writing in politico this former rhodes scholar with serious policy chops is completely dumbing down his campaign. >> well, you know i don't know where you get the idea that this is the smart guy in the campaign. donald trump says he is the smartest guy in the campaign. >> well, if donald trump says it it must be true. >> i mean where is -- who would doubt that? you know look it's sad to see what happens to these candidates when they get into this thing. but look they're in a field where they run a poll and 11% right now are going or donald trump. republican primary voters are

given an intelligence test every four years -- >> by the way, ten are going or ben carson. >> yep. and republican primary voters are given an intelligence test every four years by the pollsters. and a shocking number of them do very, very badly in that intelligence test. and what they're not attracted to in that polling is you know rhodes scholar type resume points. >> well, look if you look back to 2008 mayor giuliani was well ahead of the contenders early on in that contest. as we all saw after the first performance on the debate stage in new hampshire he sunk like a stone. i think looking at these polling numbers while you it's fun and exciting to talk about doesn't tell you much about what's going to happen next here. >> the one sort of conversation in between the lines about donald trump that i wonder especially about you two, is is there this sort of almost kind of inability to put your arms around him in the immediate --

>> excuse me? that imagery. no. no. oh. >> inability to intellectually put your arms around him in the media echo chamber which you are in and yet you go out into america and donald trump walks downey street in america -- hold on -- and he is surrounded by as many people as are there to take pictures and love him. love him and want to be a part of whatever it is that he's got. and that's not just a sarah palin i think this that's his story. >> so let me ask you a question lawrence. try and answer it honestly. >> ask the question. i want to hear the answer. >> personal feelings about him out of the way and think about it logically. does he have the ability to significantly wound another republican presidential candidate? >> oh, sure. simply in this game of -- >> he does have a serious impact potentially? >> well, yeah i guess you can say that because that whole rule about who gets on a debate stage he's going to bump someone off. >> yes.

but also with his words. does he have the ability unlike anybody else in the race to liquefy, to use your word, a candidate? >> i think if he does that in one debate they will come back and crush him the next time. if they realize, oh, we have to actually debate against him? we have to fight him on the stage? they'll crush him because he's got the most ridiculous record on all subjects including being in favor of giant tax increases and all sorts of things that he doesn't talk about. republican can crush him with things he has said. >> he's also expressed being a fan of hillary clinton which is certainly not going to go over with republican primary voters. remember, i don't think donald trump has ever been in a position of having to debate others on his point to view. when he gets into he's fights like with rosyie o'donnell, for example, he ascends into the mud mud. >> you jump back into it. >> i'm here for the fun. are you kidding me? >> i don't know. there's something in there in the middle of it. >> the trump candidacy this time i'm finding to have a much

higher amusement factor than the fake candidacy last time, which was driven by so much racial animous toward the president and so much vial stuff coming out of him. now he said that poisonous stuff about people coming over the border. but everything else he says is just plain funny. >> do you think, lawrence he taps into the id of some northerns though? i don't know how large that percentage is i don't know if it's frustration or anger or per received weakness of the united states in this moment. do you think he speaks to an audience? >> i think if you seriously want to vote for donald trump to become president, you have failed an intelligence test of how government works. what i'd like to think is everybody in there is helping us, they're saying, you know what, we want to get him on the stage. they're voting like "american idol" voters. we want to keep him on the stage. this is too funny. >> one final question, i'm making no comparisons here. but what you just said about donald trump in 2015 would not

98% of the national media have said about ronald reagan in 1979. >> no. >> i can find you quotes. >> ronald reagan you might remember, was the actual governor of california. >> i understand. >> it's a very different case. very different case. >> he was still mock and ridiculed terribly. >> not in the mainstream media that way at all. >> he was. >> there was a lot of comment out there certainly where i'm from in boston a lot of comment ability, oh, this former actor and bad actor and all that stuff. but he was taken very seriously as a candidate. he was taken seriously as candidate the first time he ran and lost. >> i would add to that that ronald reagan had a deeply developed political platform. his ideas about the cold war. with donald trump, how deep does it really go and once he's actually pushed on policy i think you will see a lot of republican contenders having fun. >> mark halperin you weigh in finally on this. >> just what you referred to before. this is a republican field unlike any we've seen. 12% could win iowa or new

hampshire and i think everything that's been said about trump's vulnerabilities is true but if he conversations to spend money and grow and be donald trump, who is to say he can't end up with 12%, 15% in one of these two states. >> he's not going to spend money. he doesn't have to. we're going to publicize him without him spending money. he's too cheap to waste his money on a losing campaign. >> i think it's a fascinating conversation. i don't agree with him on a lot of things. but i also don't think he needs on the counted out as someone who is not going to make it or not going to have a serious impact on this race. i've seen him say things that people don't have the guts to say that are true about other candidates and other people. that's kind of -- sort of a wild card. >> definitely a loose cannon. >> the highest percentage of voters in the history of polling say, i will never vote for him under any circumstances to be president of anything. >> 12% in new hampshire. >> 12%. that's what it is.

>> second in new hampshire right now. >> do you think that's going the go up if. >> we're certainly like an italian democracy here. you know? the prime minister gets 14 1/2%. lawrence has special tonight on msnbc called "the racing" and it explores motivations around white supremacists like dylann roof. >> this track an individual's experience who sunk in to that world and got himself covered in tattoos, expressing white supremacy and the journey you watch him go through is not only cleansing his mind and his spirit of all of that which he's done but now he's stuck covered in these tattoos and he has to get -- do what he can to get the tattoos removed. so it's this fascinating thing that he goes through. look you know, mothers around america are wondering, what does it take to get that tattoo removed. >> willie and i back in the '80s after the stray cats broke had

tattoos. >> i don't want to know. >> little did we know stray cat strut would only be on the chart for like 15 weeks. it's been a really painful three decades. >> stray cat fever. it broke quickly. >> it broke quickly. >> where are your tattoos? >> from like here to here. >> please. >> man, they're all over. stray cat strut. >> that is the worst visual image. >> yeah. >> lawrence o'donnell, thank you. >> thank you. >> very very much. >> you can catch lawrence's special at 10:00 tonight right here on msnbc. still ahead on "morning joe," governor rick scott was just re-elected in florida, so what's with his new campaign in connecticut? we'll ask him. you're watching "morning joe." ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands

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with us now from jacksonville, florida, governor rick scott. governor you're looking north for businesses thisses days. why are you coming to my adopted state? >> what are you doing? >> what are you doing? >> joe, come home. come home. >> what are you doing, man? what are you doing?

you're actually -- you're trying to talk ge into moving your way, aren't ya? >> joe, i read your -- first off, you need to come home. i read your op-ed and you're right. connecticut is a beautiful state. wonderful people. but your children and your grandchildren when you have them are not going to be able to get a job because they're ruining the business climate in connecticut. we've added 879,000 jobs in a little over four years because our tax rest lower, we have less regulation. we love companies in our state. and we would love of course mika and all of you to come down here. >> it's not going to happen. my kids are in school in connecticut. they love connecticut. but thank you very much for the invitation to come back home. i certainly come all the time and visit. but one of the things i tell my friends in connecticut is just how great the business climate is in florida. and how they really need to start moving towards getting rid of some of those onerous taxes that started in 1991. i'll ask you the same question that i ask governors all the time. what attracts new businesses to

states like florida, like texas, like south carolina? what are the key things that businesses look for? >> i think the biggest thing businesses are doing is they understand they have to compete globally. no one no customers saying i'll pay you more money for your product or service because you pay higher taxes or cause you to comply with unnecessary regulation or because it costs you a lot of money to get a permit or you can't find the right workforce. so it's education, it's workforce workforce, it's income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, attitude. does your government at the state level, at the local level, do they help your business do they help you attracts the right employees? we're doing all those things in florida. that's why last year 250,000 people moved to our state. we have almost 300,000 job openings in our state. our workforce is growing. we've got the number two most number of aerospace and aviation

establishments, three number of technology cases. this state is on fire. we're really doing well. i'm going to come up to connecticut today. i'll be meeting with companies today and tomorrow. you know, not all of them but some of them that are competing globally know that florida will be a better place to compete. >> let me just say, first of all, to all the connecticut companies, be nice to the governor. he's a good guy. shake his hand. and tell him that connecticut has had a wake-up call and that we're going the start being aggressive and competitive. steve rattner, we've talked about this before. it's not complicated. but when you look at what the connecticut legislature has done over the past three years, they've really stubbed their toe and they've sent a message to businesses, you're not welcome here. what would they have to do to turn things around to attract businesses that you invest? >> i think that it does come down in the first instance the taxes and as we talked about connecticut has been really tough on taxes. i think the tide may be starting to turn more than what's going

on in connecticut but it feels like the push it isback they got from ge and other companies in connecticut seem to have made a difference. >> governor, do energy costs make a big difference? you talked about an educated workforce. how much does that may into it? >> it's part of it. if you have a large manufacturing company, clearly it does. so our utility costs are lower but pretty much everything you do to do business in florida, your income tax, sales tax, property tax, utility costs. for your -- for your workforce, tuition i think is about half of what tuition is in connecticut schools. so the whole cost structure, our government is smaller in florida. the taxes per capita and florida are $1800. low e. in the country. the lowest number state workers per cap a in the united states. we figured out how to make government efficient here. i'm continuing to do it every year. i just finished my budget. we're continuing to control the size of government here.

>> governor scott, it's willie geist. i'll let you and joe hang out this weekend in connecticut and move on to a little politics. as you look at this growing field for the 2016 republican nomination, which candidate impresses you the most? >> i had an economic summit two weeks ago and i invited a lot of candidates to come down and talk about jobs. i think you have to look at the biggest issue we have in our country and who is going to turn this economy around. and so you know i think it's still early. i think they have to go sell their story. what is their plan to make the national -- >> you're not going to answer, are you? you're just not going to ask. >> jeb or marco? who is it jeb or marco? >> you know we've got donald trump in our state, ben carson mike huckabee. you have to remember i worked with all of these governors as -- >> is donald trump a serious contender? >> i like all the republican candidates. how is that? >> all right. thank you so much, governor. >> i'm not satisfied. >> he's going to be -- oh he's going to be very political and

safe here. thank you so much governor. >> no. >> appreciate it. you know steve, i've been talking to a lot of people in connecticut over the past several weeks. it really is like a wake-up call. they understand thief going to lose ge they're going to lose aetna. they're going to offend travelers and a lot of -- already lost a lot of small businesses. it seems to me, and i think you're right, there's almost been this wake-up call. i think you're going the see a lot of connecticut -- you know, the majority -- plurality of voters are independent in the state of connecticut. >> some of it is just common sense whether you're republican or democrat. >> common sense. >> it's not complicated. if you look at new york governor cuomo and predecessors have been reducing business tax necessary new york. they're still high but lower than they were because people get it, you have to have business for an economy to prosper. >> so i actually have a question about this. it seems self evident the governor makes his case about why florida is a better business environment, why kentucky is

strangling -- strangling business. so why isn't a stampede. why do you need governor rick scott to spend any time? >> the flip side is the government has to deliver service and states have different approaches to services. if you look at some of the very low tax states they offer very different level of services. in new york we provide enormous amounts of health care and financial assistants to the people at the bottom of the income scale. other states don't do that and that's the tradeoff. >> interesting. >> same my also you look at connecticut, yes. we've had a government that's been hostile to business now for ten years. that can always turn around. what's harder to turn around is the flip side of that which is connecticut has been raided time and time again as either the first or second best state to live? >> quality of life issue. >> quality of life. they are at the top of every single chart. they're the top one, two, three education. top one, two, three in health care. longevity longevity, number two. it's one of the healthiest

states. quality of life there is better than it is. as far as education goes you've got an east hartford one of the best high schools in america. yukon, one of the best state schools. yale, maybe in the world. >> i don't know about you. >> when you talk about an educated workforce, which he talked about well, my god -- >> to my point -- >> you come -- it's more complicated picture but what it requires is connecticut to wake up or else all of those services start to crumble over time. >> well, you have to find a balance but of the list of educational institutions you went through with the exception of yale every one of them depends on state support and state support comes from one place, which are taxes. >> there you go. >> right. >> so, still ahead, here's a question for you. what is the best job in america? what is the healthiest fast food system item? what is the healthiest fast food

it snem item? >> big mac. >> bacon wrapped big mac. >> what does space smell like? we're going to unveil "time" magazine answers issue just ahead on "morning joe." when a moment spontaneously turns romantic why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? with cialis for daily use, you don't have to plan around either. it's the only daily tablet

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ressive. 36 past the hour. the upscale grocery chain whole

foods is under investigation accused of overcharging customers for prepackaged foods. new york city inspectors call it the worst case of mislabeling ever that they've seen. officials say they tested 80 different packages and found 9% of the time the weight on the label deviated too far from the actual weight of the product the most prevalent cases involved packages label with the same weight when it could practically be impossible for them to weigh the idea kl amount. officials say the overcharges range from 80 cents to almost $15? whole foods has said it disagrees with the overreaching allegations and that the company will vigorously defend itself. it also claims the department of consumer affairs have not provided evidence but instead taken to the media to coerce us. i don't know. i go there and i find it to be too expensive. >> whole foods overcharging? i think that's most shoppers --

>> whole wallet as they call it. look, there are two sides to every story. >> of course. >> i'm not saying they didn't over charge but it would be interesting to try to get to the bottom of it. >> and in general you want to be able to go to a grocery store and feel out everybody has access to really good food. they have really good food. there's no question. >> great selection but you're paying for it. >> yeah. and their mindset about it is to have it to be healthy and well prepared and, you know, it's a different level. >> grocery store and know what you're paying for is what you're getting. >> exactly. something's wrong. we'll see. maybe not. but we'll follow the story. up next we're going to take a look back. >> what was it like for you as a son who loves his dad walking through the door and going, you're here dad, you were here. >> it's a very personal and special feeling and goose bumps. i mean can't say anything but that. >> the lasting legacy of comcast founder ralph roberts is next.

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you know we also support hospitals using electronic health records for more than 30 million patients? or that our software helps over 20 million smartphone users remotely configure e-mail every month? or how about processing nearly $5 billion in electronic toll payments a year? in fact, today's xerox is working in surprising ways to help companies simplify the way work gets done and life gets lived. with xerox, you're ready for real business. [alarms blaring] ohhhhh... whoa whoa whoa! who's responsible for this?!? if something goes wrong, you find a scapegoat. ...rick. it's what you do. ahhhhhhhh! what'd you say? uh-oh! kelly! if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. rick. don't walk away from me. ahhhhhhhh!

. family it's an indescribable bond that's formed between father and daughter, mother and son, sister and brother, teammates on the field, soldiers in battle. and if you're really really lucky, friends who you work alongside with every day. work families can, well, they can fall apart the longer they're together. and the larger they become the more successful they get, the more money they make keeping a tight family culture together when you're one of the biggest communication companies in america, well, that sounds impossible. but ralph roberts somehow managed to do it. this week our nbc universal family lost a founder of our parent company, comcast. in his 95 years, ralph's lifespaned the most fascinating and challenging century man has known. the leap from print to the airwaves, from airwaves to the living room frand three channels to 300,000 on and off line

ralph was able to navigate the course through those turbulent waters, with his family business from philadelphia and it's a testament to his strong and visionary leadership. the road he built, the road that we're all traveling on now, that's ralph's legacy. but it was a long and winding road with more than a few unexpected turns. the son of immigrants he grew up during the great depression. when he lost his dad, he was just 12. when he lost his mom a few years later, when he was 21. ralph roberts then attended the university of pennsylvania and he married his high school sweetheart suzanne while he served in the navy during world war ii. he went into business, well, into advertising, mastering the art of sales and customer relations. and with a lot of courage and the faith of a local bank he was able to take over a business of his own, pioneer industries selling belts to men. now, he may have stayed in the belt industry for the rest of

his life were it not for a strange twist of fate. >> and one day i opened the newspaper and there was a big ad for something called sansabelt, bet beltless slangs. it was the new rage. i if this goes on i'll be out of business because i'm making belts as a principle product. so i called up my buddy ray hitchcock, how would would you like to buy my business? >> friends came to him with a new product. something and community antenna television system in a little town far, far away. >> mississippi, that was the beginning of our introduction to cable business. i didn't pay too much attention to tupelo because i didn't know anything about cable. i didn't even know what it was. and tupelo nobody had ever heard of that except i later found out it was the birth place of elvis presley. but as i began to look at what was happening i realized the cable business was the best of

all the ones i had invested in and decided to go forward full boat. >> and he went forward full boat indeed. comcast, the combination of the words communications and broadcasting started improving on the cable system model offering more services and steadily buying up other systems in mississippi, michigan pennsylvania and soon enough across all of america. the roberts made each new addition self-sustaining to protect the broader company. it costs a little more but maybe it did at the outset but it gave comcast the steadiness and consistency to expand. and it just continued expanding. comcast has 27.2 million subdescribers. it's one of the largest telephone providers in america and it took in $67.8 billion in revenue last year. and it was ralph who did this with his family company. philadelphia's comcast center is the tallest building between new york and chicago and high up on

the 43rd and 44th floors is a 400-seat cafe called ralph's. it's where the entire company comes together every day just like a family. because that's what was at the core of ralph's management strategy family. >> i would get home at night, the big deal was the dinner table. and even talked about what they did. and i think we encouraged our kids to do that which gives you the greatest happiness and don't worry what anybody says about it. if you want to be a hot dog salesman, sell hot dogs. so do what you think you would like to do. >> and that's what his kids did. and i've sense he was a little bow the fout of his five children, just wanted to work alongside his dad. ralph sent brian climbing poles and doing installations and making him learn the business from the ground up.

so he would know it better than anybody else. so he would be able to see into the future even further than he could. david cohen and steve burke became members of that family the roberts family's business grew by leaps and bounds. but it all started with ralph roberts. a man who not only had a vision to see the path forward when others couldn't but also the ability to build that road forward that so many are going to enjoy in the years to come. mika and i are proud to be members of the comcast family and proud to stabbed on thend on the shoulders of a gentle giant. >> i just think i'm an example of what you can do in america starting with very little. and if you have a good determination and you're honest about what you do you can be successful. >> it's really an incredible story. we've seen firsthand how comcast really is a family. >> we have. >> at the highest levels. >> a couple of different

opportunities to witness that firsthand. and that family legacy certainly lives on. steve rattner, you knew ralph very well. and sort of saw the side of him that perhaps would surprise people obviously made a great fortune in his life but didn't need to have it that badly in his actual day-to-day living. >> no he was not about personal comforts. he flew coach for many years in his life. i first met him in 1984. he was the especially pet to my of speak softly but carry a big stick. incredibly determined. i think as you went through in your piece i think he achieved a better family work life, balance, than almost anybody i know. he had an incredibly close family but he worked hard and managed to bring the two together. and to be enormously successful on both fronts on the home front as well as the business front. >> what a feat. >> what a great life. up next, the new issue of "time" magazine. we'll be right back.

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52 past the hour. joining us to reveal the latest issue of "time" magazine senior editor dan maxi. this is your answers issue so we already got some answers to the questions that we tease. >> we're flying today. where's the safest place to sit on a plane? >> the answer is kid of ironic because it's often where people don't want to sit. it's the middle seats towards the back of the plane that are

the safest. >> okay. what's the best beach in america? >> that is huntington beach state park in orange county california. we know this because of a combination of weather, temperature and trip advisor reviews. >> oh, my god, look at this. which president generates the most tourism? >> so the answer to that one is richard nixon. >> really? >> yes, because he green lighted the golden gate state park. >> what's the healthiest fast food? >> the healthiest fast food that's not a salad is a baked potato from wendy's. i know it's pretty good. >> i've had a lot of those through the years. >> i've had those too. i love them. >> very good. baked potato from wendy's. >> it's a whole food packed with nutrients and it's baked. >> why wouldn't it be chipotle. >> we picked the healthiest fast food from lots of different restaurants but the wendy's one has a lot of nutrients. >> and space. it has a particular smell to it.

>> so astronauts -- we surveyed astronauts and they say space smells like a combination of hot metal and seared steak. >> best news in america besides cable news television host. >> it's an audiologist, a doctor that helps with hearing issues. we know this because as the population ages this is an increasing problem and especially with young folks wearing headphones, that's going to be a problem. >> how much do you make as an audiologist. >> around $70,000. >> awesome. >> there you go. >> how do i get this stupid song out of my head? >> the trick to that one is chewing gum. it's been shown to be 60% effective at getting the song out of your head because it gives you something else to focus on. >> who are we watching on youtube. >> pudi pie. >> who's that? >> a blogger who talks about video games and all sorts of interesting stuff. >> are we alone in the universe? >> well that's a tough question

to answer with data, but we've asked lots of different people so the answers vary. >> how do you win jeopardy? >> well it depends. you have to really really know your stuff but we've noticed words like opera have trended down so chances are you should stay away from studying those types of topics. >> what's the world's deadliest culture. >> creature? >> oh i thought it was culture. >> the world's deadliest creature is a very tiny one called the mosquito. we thought it would be a shark or tiger, but it is a mosquito. >> why does squinting help you see better? >> i'm doing it now. >> it narrows your field of vision. >> taylor or beyonce? >> taylor or beyonce? i would pick beyonce. >> okay. >> i have to ask this question. whatever happened to spring? >> it's getting shorter. >> why? >> because of climate change. it's just getting shorter and shorter.

>> and so is this sigment, we have to go. the latest issue of "time" magazine hits newsstands tomorrow. >> you answered the questions so well. >> coming up at the top of the hour a second prison employee arrested as two inmates remain on the loose. why a guard may be facing years behind bars. still ahead, claire mccaskill joins the conversation. we'll be right back. thanks for calling angie's list. how may i help you? i heard i could call angie's list if i needed work done around my house at a fair price. you heard right, just tell us what you need done and we'll find a top rated provider to take care of it. so i could get a faulty light switch fixed? yup! or have a guy refinish my floors? absolutely! or send someone out to groom my pookie? pookie's what you call your? my dog. yes, we can do that. real help from real people. come see what the new angie's list can do for you.

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countries can run on jet engine technology. when you look at problems in ways different you new solutions find. ♪ ♪ it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. wake up! mark halperin is with us on set. >> let's talk politics. the democratic race for president is changing this

morning. a brand new bloomberg poll suggests bernie sanders is chipping away at hillary clinton's commanding leads. >> in iowa clinton has dropped seven points from last month while sanders has climbed 8 to 24%. that's quite a surge. it must be just strange, like a sarah palinesque thing. it's just not serious, right? martin o'malley and lincoln chafee made barely a mark. the race tightened in new hampshire where clinton saw a decrease of 6 points while sanders had a 6-point gain. it's not serious, right? >> the way i look at it is like '92. bernie sanders is still a long way from threatening to beat her in the nomination but in these two states he is now within 25 points of her and he may not beat her, but he can create a lot of trouble for her. he can extend the nomination fight, he can make her -- pull her further to the left.

what's interesting about these polls is in these two states where the voters are paying the most close attention, he's a lot closer than nationally. and on things like willingness to fight wall street he's doing better than her in voters' view. people say they're voting for him not as a protest but because they like him. the clinton people can laugh off the poll and say we're still ahead but if on a primary night, caucus night, he got a quarter of the vote. >> i don't think the clinton people are laughing it off. i think they'll look at the effectiveness of his message and they'll work on their own, which is exactly what should be happening. i think the media laughs him off. >> i shouldn't say laugh it off, but they're spinning expectations and say well if he got 50% of the vote that would be good enough. but this shows that he has grown, obviously, a lot and also that voters like him for a reason. he's doing better with men than she is. than he is with women. and he is seen as a credible person. >> so that on the democratic

side. on the republican side willie another person that people keep laughing off, donald trump. a person that i guess was shocked and stunned and deeply saddened that we brought up as if we were just doing it for the hell of it is donald trump at 11% in a fox news poll. a lot of people wondered whether the last poll that showed him in second place in new hampshire was a joke. this is no joke and republican party leaders are nervous. >> we showed that poll yesterday from new hampshire that had donald in second place. now you have a national poll that shows the same thing. so you can laugh at your own peril because when that fox debate happens, and it's coming up quick low on august the 6th and they're taking the top ten, donald trump is going to be there. he's going to be on that stage in all likelihood and completely change the dynamic of that conversation. he has no fear. he's going to say whatever he wants on that stage. he's going to force people into uncomfortable moments and it will make things very

interesting. >> mark halperin you look at the suffolk poll and he's within the margin of error for first place, unlike her man caneman cain to jumped to first place for a while, rick perry for a while, michele bachmann for a while. here you have donald trump who's been around the block a few times. this isn't his first rodeo. he understands pr he understands the press, he knows how to draw huge crowds, he's been doing it forever. i think he had the best-selling business book 20 30 years ago and he's got billions and billions of dollars to stay in the race as long as he wants to. i think a lot of republicans are fearful if he doesn't win there, he'll go independent and do what ross perot did to another bush in '92. >> there are some states that wouldn't allow him to run as an independent. but leave the national polls aside for a second. in our new hampshire poemll, you see bernie sanders doing well because they like an outsider

kicking an establishment in the face or even lower. trump is the same thing. in a crowded field, 16 candidates, a billionaire who can get attention, he's going to potentially grow support. normally what happens when somebody like michele bachmann or herman cain rise they get scrutiny. some from their opponents, sometimes just from the press on its own. when trump gets scrutiny is that going to make him less popular? i don't know that the normal physics of political scrutiny apply to trump. >> a lot of it is already baked in with donald trump. you've seen the good the bad and the ugly. >> he's gotten a ton of scrutiny. >> and he's still where he is. you see this yesterday, mika. a surprising apology in a death sentence. that's rattled boston. >> yeah. dzhokhar tsarnaev is now facing death by injection after being formally sentenced for the 2013 boston bombings. he broke his silence for the

first time in more than two years at the hearing apologizing to his victims and their families. after three hours of emotional statements from survivors and victims' families tsarnaev said in part quote, i am sorry for the lives that i've taken, for the suffering that i've caused you, for the damage that i've done irreparable damage and i parade for allah to bestow his mercy upon the deceased those affected in the bombing and their families. but the judge did not buy the apology telling tsarnaev that whenever his name is mentioned, people will remember the four individuals who were killed and the 260 who were injured. survivors had mixed reactions about whether his apology was sincere. >> our lives will never be the same again. i live a block from the finish line and my neighborhood has changed forever. and i regret having ever wanted to hear him speak, because what he said showed no remorse, no regret and no empathy for what he's done to our lives.

>> i have come to a place of peace and i genuinely hope that he does as well. and for me to hear him say that he's sorry, that is enough for me. and i -- i hope because i still do have faith in humanity including in him, i hope that his words were genuine. i hope that they were heartfelt. >> and joining us now from boston is one of the survivors of the bombing, scott weisberg. scott, it's great to have you with us. you spoke yesterday inside the courtroom. you didn't buy the apology from tsarnaev. why didn't you? >> i basically felt similar to lynn, as several other survivors, that his -- during the -- i've been to part of the trial and during the trial he never really showed any facial expression, emotion, and then yesterday after we as a victim

spoke and gave our impact statement, to get up there and state that you know he was sorry, it just -- it didn't feel sincere. you know i have been suffering for two years with injuries that i'll have for the rest of my life, as the rest of the other survivors. i mean they're not going away my injuries so his words at the very end are not going to make me feel better for what i'm -- i'm 45 years old. i've got a whole life ahead of me with my three kids my family and this scar from that injury will always be there. >> talk about the hidden and invisible injuries that you still suffer through every day that people can't see. >> yes. so i was -- i was a marathon runner that day and finished three seconds before the first bomb went off. as a result i have bilateral

hearing loss. so i wear hearing aids. in addition i have some ptsd symptoms as well as a mild traumatic brain injury. all of those injuries you can't see on the outside, so to everybody that meets me i look completely normal as a family physician i present myself very well. but inside i every day have struggles. the hearing aids aren't in i can't hear things. i process things very differently than i did two years ago. my working memory on a day-to-day basis is very slowed and these are things as a constant reminder of me running my dream of the boston marathon for the first time in april of 2013. >> and as you move forward, scott, and work on recovering which as you say some of these injuries will be with you forever, bottom line that apology rang hollow to you?

>> yes. and that was one of my reasons for speaking yesterday is i live in alabama, i don't live up here and i wanted the voice not only of mine but the other survivors that have these hidden and invisible injuries to be heard. and for the judge and the prosecution, the defense and even -- you know he was even looking at us as we were speaking, but it was just to get the word out that these injuries are real they're significant, they're lifelong. we're going to be dealing with them for the rest of our lives. and we don't want to be forgotten. >> all right. >> we hear you. >> yeah. >> scott weisberg, thank you very very much. >> thank you scott. >> thanks. >> we greatly appreciate it. we're going to turn now to upstate new york where a second prison employee has now been arrested in the investigation into that elaborate escape

earlier this month. gene palmer a guard at the clinton correctional facility who worked in the so-called honor block housing richard matt and david sweat, has been charged with promoting prison contraband tampering with physical evidence and prison misconduct. those carry sentences that range from 15 months to seven years. palmer's attorney says he'll enter a plea of not guilty. it all comes as the search for the two fugitives continues this morning in the densely wooded town of owls head new york just 20 miles from the prison. that's where we find once again nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk. >> stephanie, what can you tell us about gene palmer? what incentive would a prison guard have putting his future on the line for two of the worst murderers in the prison? >> reporter: well, these are incredible details coming out here this morning, joe. we've got our hands on the criminal complaint. according to the criminal complaint, he gave these inmates tools in exchange for their

artwork. now, it must have been pretty nice artwork to put himself in this kind of jeopardy but according to the criminal complaint he gave them needle-nose pliers as well as a screwdriver in exchange for these paintings and also immediately following the escape he destroyed the paintings, burning them and then burying them. now, earlier this week the d.a. told us that joyce mitchell told him she had buried tools in hamburger meat and smuggled them into the prison and then turned them over to gene palmer who then handed them to the inmates. this is what his lawyer had to say about that particular aspect of this case last night. >> he did pass the hamburger meat. he shouldn't have done it. he's apologized for it. he had no knowledge that there were any contraband other than the meat itself. he had no knowledge that joyce mitchell had hidden contraband inside of the meat. the district attorney has gone

on record by saying he had no knowledge that they were planning on escaping. he passed a polygraph test and the district attorney also made mention of that yesterday, that he passed the polygraph test. he had no knowledge that these two individuals were going to attempt an escape. >> reporter: palmer posted $25,000 bail and he also very early this morning pled not guilty to these charges. his lawyer tells us that he's shocked by all of this. he didn't know that they were going to come down and it was a surprise to them and that he's devastated by the charges. guys, back to you. >> nbc's stephanie gosk. >> stephanie, you said it best that must have been some really good artwork. wow! >> stephanie, thank you. >> can you believe that? >> look forward to more reporting from you. >> mark halperin that's bizarre. >> it's a little bizarre. upstate new york prison. >> there's so much more that's going to come out. >> there's something else. it doesn't add up. >> what is going on in there. >> who would put everything on the line for a painting that one

of the guys did. >> there's so much more. still ahead on "morning joe" can the markets recover from an ugly day on wall street? cnbc's sara eisen has business before the bell. plus bill clinton won missouri twice in the 1990s, but would voters there offer the same support to hillary clinton's candidacy? senator claire mccaskill is working on that and she joins us in just a few minutes. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ (singing) you wouldn't haul a load without checking your clearance. so why would you invest without checking brokercheck? check your broker with brokercheck.

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secretary of state john kerry is preparing to leave for vienna tomorrow just five days remain for the u.s. to reach a possible nuclear deal with iran. it comes as the associated press obtained a draft document that purportedly shows the u.s. is

ready to send iran high-tech nuclear reactors and equipment if an agreement is reached. but critics of the deal say the u.s. is making too many concessions and the group that includes five former advisers to president obama is now warning that the possible deal may shawlfall short of what the white house considered a good agreement. also complicating the talks, iran's supreme leader is opposing a long-term freeze on nuclear research and demanding all sanctions be lifted before iran signs any agreement. but secretary kerry says his comments were quote, domestic -- for domestic political consumption and that they will not affect negotiations. >> what matters to us is what is agreed upon within the four corners of a document and that is what is yet to be determined. so it may be that the iranians will not fill out the full

measure of what was agreed on in which case there will not be an agreement. we've been very very clear that we're not going to negotiate in public. i am not tweeting. i am not making speeches nor is president obama. we are committed to going to vienna and engaging. >> joining us now, former director of the cia and nsa, now principal of the chertoff group, retired general michael hayden. also with us morning joe economic analyst, steve rattner. >> general, you've had concerns about the deal. how do you feel today? >> not good joe. the secretary's point about what really matters is what's in the final document actually that's only half of what's important. what really matters then is what the iranians do to live up to the terms in the final document. and in that sense what the supreme leader says really matters. so he may have been posturing, but i wouldn't bet the farm on that. >> what developments have happened over the past month

that cause you the greatest concern. >> i was actually stunned about ten days ago, the secretary made his first public appearance after his injury and he talked about the possible military dimensions of the program. the previous activities actually weaponize a nuclear device. number one, he said you know that's not really as important as some people are suggesting it is. number two they don't really have to come clean before an agreement -- >> did the administration themselves suggest this was important? >> this is a walk-back from a previous position. >> how many walk-backs have they had? >> well i don't know that sanctions are going to snap back. i don't know that we're going to get previous military dimensions of the program explained before we signed and i don't think we're getting any time anywhere inspections and all of those really do have to be preconditions. >> so not that we really know what's going on on the inside, but when you set to negotiate things that we've discussed over the years is that you are prepared to walk back a little bit. is this within the parameters or are you saying this feels like

it's outside the parameters of what's appropriate of a deal that could really be effective? >> mika i think this is outside the parameters. look, we've walked back a lot and i get it. when this thing first came out i held my fire because we left an ugly baby for this administration in terms of the iranian nuclear program. if we'd have had a better idea we'd have done it. so i'm trying to be generous here. but the longer we go on, the more willing we seem to be to concede things. you had five former obama administration officials saying you've got to have these things in the deal otherwise you should walk. >> so where does that leave us? do we just walk? and of course we have the other five nations that are with us on this and the question of how far they're willing to go on sanctions or whether they will give in and sign the deal as it's evolving. >> steve that's the really perverse dynamic of these negotiations. we have walked the other five to this point and we've done it all right? it's our negotiating style. not the french who have been

tougher. we have walked them to this point so that if now we pull the plug and back out, we really do run the risk of what you describe happening, which is the other five saying why are you guys backing away now because you're -- in essence, you're the one breaking stride not us. >> so what do we do? >> like i told you, this is an ugly baby and i don't really have a good plan b. >> but we have to have a plan b, right? >> i do fear -- look joe, the last time i was on here i said we've gone from no deal is better than a bad deal to steve, right now i think we're at any deal is better than no deal and i think that's a really bad place. we cannot appear or actually want the deal more than the iranians do. >> right, i get all that. but we've also agreed that we can't just walk back on our own, we need to have these other five countries with us. france is tougher -- >> obviously we have to start talking more aggressively with france and with the other countries. i mean obviously russia is not

going to be alongside of us but we're going to have to start talking aggressively. but if you have a president who is so desperate to do a deal with the iranians just as he was desperate in 2008 to open up relations with the iranians and in 2009 he ignored the slaughter of innocent iranians in the street, he's not thinking plan b. so if you don't have a commander in chief that's not talking to the french and not talking to our other allies and saying listen, we may need to step this back because right now the best thing we can do is walk away from the table and see if the iranians want to move forward good evening then again, then you're not going to have a plan b. that's the president of the united states' responsibility. but i'm sorry, from everything we've seen and we've been saying it for a long time he is so desperate for a deal with the iranians that the iranians are walking over him. you across the negotiating table

with another businessman or businesswoman, you would run all over somebody that was so desperate for a deal that you just kept getting away with one after another after another provocation. >> well, i have been in a lot of negotiations and i do know there's something we call business deal fever, where you just get so into the deal that the deal becomes the objective rather than the substance of what's actually in the deal. >> from what you've seen do you think that the president has deal fever with the iranians? >> i think there's a lot of internal pressure and desire to get a deal done. i would say it's more complicated than the average business because he's got these other five countries sitting over here. yes, the russians can walk away but the sanctions won't be effective unless we have the whole group together. >> that's correct. so we have created a circumstance where we may have isolated ourselves at the negotiations if we pull back. joe, can i just add an additional point, though. look maybe we don't need to know the possible military

dimensions. i think we do i really do. >> i agree. >> but we're betting the farm not on being -- stopping them from weaponizing, we're betting the farm on stopping them from creating fissile material. so the secretary could argue we're going to take our chances with some lack of knowledge on the weaponization. if that's the case say it. don't come out and say, as he did, we don't need them to tell us what they did weaponizing because we have quote, absolute knowledge, unquote, of what they have done in the past, which is just simply untrue. >> that's not true. >> so general, what is the deal-breaker for president obama. what's the one thing that if he doesn't extract he must walk away from the table? >> i think there are three or four. number one i think you do need to know the history of the program. the one that really breaks though is anywhere any time inspections. the first nfc meeting i was president obama's cia chief. he asked me how much did they

have and i said mr. president, i know that answer and i'll give it to you in a minute but there's not one that's ever going to show up in a weapon. what they're building there is technology. they will go to heu at a secret site. now, at the time we thought it was gume and it was but there can be somewhere else. that's why you need anywhere any time because they're not going to do this there, they're going to do it somewhere else secret. >> and the supreme leader says you cannot have any time anyway and what happens? >> in my mind that means there's no deal. >> general michael hayden, thank you very much for your insights. coming up on "morning joe" the tragedy of richard nixon. they pull back the curtain on what he calls a 40-year coverup. senator claire mccaskill is standings by on capitol hill and joins the conversation just ahead. woman: it's been a journey to get where i am. and i didn't get here

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29 past the hour. joining us now from capitol hill democratic senator claire mccaskill of missouri. claire, great to have you back on the show. >> thanks. hi, guys. >> hi. joe and halperin here. bernie sanders is doing quite well in the polls. we know you're ready for

hillary. do you think there's any concern there? >> no. i think the media is giving bernie a pass right now. i very rarely read in any coverage of bernie that he's a socialist. i think everybody wants a fight and i think they are not really giving the same scrutiny to bernie sanders that they're giving certainly to hillary clinton and the other candidates. so she's going to win this and as soon as i think they begin treating him like a serious candidate instead of oh my gosh, it's so great, we've got a fight in the democratic party, i think it will become very clear. any other candidate that has the numbers that hillary clinton had right now would be you know talked about as absolutely untouchable and all of a sudden, oh bernie bernie bernie. >> right. >> i think bernie is too liberal to gather enough votes in this country to become president, and i think hillary clinton will be a fantastic president. >> so essentially i agree with you, just sort of analyzing from afar. but what do you make of these massive crowds he's getting and

the impact that could have on hillary's message? and they do account for something, don't they? >> well you know rand paul's father got massive crowds ron paul. he got the same size crowds. pat buchanan got massive crowds. it's not unusual for someone who has an extreme message to have a following, and massive is relative. i think hillary had a massive crowd at her announcement. certainly as large as any crowd that bernie sanders has had. >> so you think bernie sanders has an extreme message? >> i think bernie sanders has a message that's touching people's frustration and i totally get that, but so does hillary clinton. and she's got years of experience working in the very same arena, working on behalf of income inequality and middle class values middle class families, opportunity for college, opportunity for preschool.

this is somebody that can carry the torch of middle class opportunity without alienating a wide swath of voters by being, frankly, a socialist. >> senator, you said senator sanders should get more scrutiny. just name three specific positions he holds that you think are too far left too socialist, to be electable. >> i am not here to be critical of my colleague, bernie sanders. >> senator, with all due respect, you already were. you said he was socialist and not electable. >> i do believe that. >> so what are three examples of things that prove your point? >> well i think he would like to see medicare for all in this country. have everybody have a government insurance policy. i don't think most americans want government to have every insurance policy. >> that's one. two more? >> i bet you never knew -- halperin, what is this law school? >> i think mark is upset because i said the media is not, i think, covering bernie in the

same context. >> i think that's true. >> they are other candidates. >> i'm just asking you to help us senator. what are two more things. >> you know what they are, mark. you don't have to ask me. you know what they are. he would like to see expansion of entitlement. he would like to see -- he is not worried about a debt at all. he is somebody who i think is frankly, against trade. he's against a whole lot of things. >> right. >> that are unrealistic in this day and age. >> so i like a lot of what he has to say too, but i have to say, joe, when claire said bernie bernie bernie like marcia marcia marcia she had me at that. >> he is a socialist. he's gotten a pass on the fact that he's a socialist. at the same time i think most everybody that's going to the crowds cheering for him knows that he's a socialist. but this does happen. and, senator this is what i always complain about in republican primaries. you get some of the more extreme candidates get out there and those are the only people that

the press want to report on because it's the most fascinating. >> and massive crowds. >> they draw crowds because they're saying things that nobody else will say and yet at the same time they're not going to be there at the end of the day. >> and, you know if there's a race in the democratic party, there are more cliques and more eyeballs and i understand that. i get that. but i also believe -- and don't get me wrong, i get his message is resonating for the right reasons. >> exactly. >> and our party has to stand for that. i'm not being critical of bernie's message. i just don't think he's getting the same scrutiny as other candidates right now. >> let's talk about something very personal to you and taking a sharp turn here but let's talk about st. louis cardinals. and i'm not even -- obviously there's a little dust-up obviously about possibly hacking into the houston astros' computer system. the cardinals have always been a class organization, a class

operation. i mean they're the best of the best. i've said that time and time again. it's got to be heart-breaking for people in st. louis to be going through this. what are your thoughts as a huge cardinals fan? >> yeah it's both embarrassing and heart-breaking. and we are all on the edge of our seats to learn what the facts are. we all want to believe with every fiber of our being that this is a rogue employee that has done this or rogue employees. certainly the management has said that the first they knew of it is when they were contacted by the fbi. it may be someone who was irritated about the fact that this man left the cardinal organization and took a system that had been developed there to houston. he had developed it but nonetheless it was a system that was developed in st. louis, and he may have just been acting on his own to do something really stupid and really damaging to who we are as an organization.

and i hope that he -- if that turns out to be the case that obviously he would be banned from there cardinal nation but also i hope heel feels the full brunt of the law come down on his head. >> yeah we certainly hope so too and hope for only the best for the cardinals. finally, let's talk about the confederate flag issue that obviously has been impacting the deep south but also in missouri there was a confederate memorial that was vandalized recently. what are your thoughts on what you've been seeing in the news since the deadly shooting in charleston? >> well, i think the context you guys have given it is really important in that most of these flags didn't go up until the civil rights movement in the '60s. this wasn't as if everyone raised the confederate flag to honor those who fought in the confederacy in the early years after the civil war. this only occurred after we made major movement in this country to make sure that african-americans could sit at the same lunch counters and go

to the same schools as white people in this country. so i think it's appropriate that they're coming down. i would caution however, that i don't want us to get so focused just on removing the flag that we don't realize how much more work there is to do. it's a lot more complicated than just taking down the flag. that's a great first step it's a great symbol but we also have to do more work. >> by the way, mika i'm reading claire's book. it's fantastic. >> isn't it great? >> i absolutely love the stories about the impact her father had, her early years in law. i can't wait for it to come out. >> can you tell, joe, by reading the book that i'm definitely not running for president? that's what everyone keeps telling me. you clearly have said way too much if you're running for president, so it will be obvious to everybody, this is not one of those books. >> well there was every page or two i would read something. i'd just sort of stop and go oh wow, she wrote that. most people would think it and not put it on paper. it's going to be a great read. >> i had a really -- claire you

and i had a pretty personal conversation on the phone for another project and then she told me she had a book coming out. i was like, whoa this is going to be -- this is going to be good. >> it really is good. >> it is. senator claire mccaskill thank you so much. it's great to see you. >> thanks guys. coming up cnbc's sara eisen live at the new york stock exchange. plus, how big of a role did alcohol play into richard nixon's downfall? aboard-winning author tim weiner joins us ahead with that. before earning enough cash back from bank of america to buy a new gym bag.

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time now for business before the bell with cnbc's sara eisen. sara, what is driving the markets today? >> good morning, mika. we just got some great news on the economy when it comes to consumer spending, which is really the backbone of the u.s. economy. it turns out u.s. consumer spending in the month of may jumped 0.9%. actually that was the biggest increase in six years. haven't seen numbers like that since august 2009.

it is further confirmation that the economy is coming out of this deep freeze that we saw in the first quarter of the year and is rebounding nicely into the second quarter and into the rest of the year. we also learned that personal incomes of americans rose 0.5%. that was pretty much what economists were looking for. it's in the right direction but still not enough as you have been all over the stories of higher wages and incomes we need to see in this country. so the better spending number is helping lift markets but yet again lots of anxiety over what's happening in greece. deal, no deal. basically we're in another situation here where the europeans are locked in last-minute, down-to-the-wire talks with the greece. at issue here greece needs another bailout, 7 billion euros from europe. the european countries from the central bank and the imf. the problem is greece needs to agree to some reforms including in its pension system in order

for them to unlock the bailout funds. bottom line they can't agree and that's giving markets a lot of anxiety. we are keeping our eye on europe for that. another interesting story for all you beer drinkers out there, especially if you are a fan of beck's beer. you may be entitled to a refund because beck's turns out is made in st. louis, missouri and was sued by a class action lawsuit complaining that they claimed to be made in europe in germany. it's not a german -- it's not a german beer anymore, so basically if you've kept your receipts since 2011 and are a drinker of beck's beer you may be entitled to as much as $50. if you didn't keep your receipts, maybe only $12. but this is obviously a big scheme as these big beer conglomerates that own all sorts of local beers and have transferred production into the united states because it's cheaper. >> all right. cnbc's sara eisen, thank you very much. >> thank you. up next is the richard nixon cover-up finally coming to a close 40 years later?

why there's more to watergate than we thought. author tim weiner joins us next. keep it right here on "morning joe." it's one of the most amazing things we build and it doesn't even fly. we build it in classrooms and exhibit halls, mentoring tomorrow's innovators. we build it raising roofs, preserving habitats and serving america's veterans. every day, thousands of boeing volunteers help make their communities the best they can be. building something better for all of us.

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always remember others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. and then you destroy yourself. >> oh my gosh that's really powerful. that was former president richard nixon on the day of his resignation. joining us now, award-winning author tim weiner whose latest book "one man against the world, the tragedy of richard nixon." thanks for being back on the show. >> you bet. >> where do we begin, with your dad or the drinking? >> well i tell you, i have -- i just finished reading evan thomas' new book on nixon and he really is such a tragic tragic figure. talk about the title and "one man against the world." >> well nixon felt he was surrounded with enemies, and he really felt in the words of one of his cabinet officers and chief advisers, bob finch, it

was me against the world. the tragic aspect is this i got my hands on the last bunch of tapes that were declassified from the beginning of his second term until the tapes were discovered later that summer. so eight months' worth of tapes. and they're like the fourth act in a shakespearian tragedy when the king goes mad. >> right. >> in the fifth act, he kills himself. and here is a man for all his flaws who is bleeding, who is suffering, who is in mortal pain because he knows the thing he covets most the power of the presidency, is going to be taken from him and it's his own damn fault. because, as he said he gave his enemies a sword and they stuck it in him and they twisted. >> and the question so many ask, why didn't he burn the tapes.

>> why didn't he bush thern the tapes? >> why did he not burn the tapes. >> which is what historians are still trying to figure out. >> no it's simple. this is something that's revealed in this new information. he said on tape we need to destroy the tapes. then after the tapes' existence were revealed he was in the hospital with viral pneumonia and he wrote on his notepad, should have destroyed the tapes. now he and he alone could have done it. and it would have caused a constitutional cataclysm, but he could have done it and said these are my tapes, i'm the president. >> right. but the question was who was going to burn them obviously. >> and then his lawyers and counselors and aides all sat around saying okay so we're going to have a bonfire on the white house lawn great. who's going to strike the match? and someone suggested that it would be the president's not terribly faithful irish setter.

>> mark halperin there's also been -- going to the tragedy of richard nixon and the paranoia of richard nixon, there have also been some suggestions recently that it was his own paranoia that he needed the tapes to defend himself against halderman ander ereranderlichman who he had to fire. >> and kissinger. >> and kissinger. there's no reason to trust henry kissinger. he knew kissinger was saying one thing in front of him. >> henry is fine. >> i'm reading history. >> one, nixon needs to make a multimillion dollar book deal and the tapes are his guarantee that he can make that deal. two, he needs to defend himself against the inevitable memoirs of henry kissinger. nobody writes a washington memoir in which he looks like a fool. he's always the genius okay. but the fact is nixon was the

strategist, kissinger the tactician. and henry kissinger is 93 years old and he's still revising history, even as we speak. >> mark you've got a president that was willing told things unimaginable for the highest office in the land. were the people around him corrupted by him or did they come in corrupt? >> they weren't corrupted or corrupt. they were loyal and they were zealous. they were men of zeal. and they would do anything that they were commanded to do. you know you've got a perfectly straight-laced guy like gordon strong who's walking around the white house with a black satchel with $350,000 in cash in it trying to get rid of it. okay. now how did he get in that position?

because the president of the united states told him to do it. look, one knows that in washington proximity to power is what you want if you're a 28-year-old kid in the white house, right? >> yeah. >> that's how you get power, through proximity to the president. the trouble is that richard nixon never trusted anybody. he didn't trust his secretary of defense, his secretary of state, his soldiers his generals his admirals, his spies, to come up with a winning strategy in vietnam. and what i finally understand now after listening to all these tapgs tapes and reading all these new materials is that there never would have been a watergate if there hadn't have been a vietnam. >> why? >> why? because he can't come up with a winning strategy in vietnam. he can use b-52 bombers over there as a weapon. over here against his domestic enemies, he's got to use bugs

wire taps black bag jobs and that's what takes him down the rolled. >> so it's a credible book. thank you so much for being with us, tim. "one man against the world, the tragedy of richard nixon." i'd love to get you back and talk more. >> any time. all right. coming up next what, if anything, did we learn today? >> that's a good question. what do you think of when you think of the united states postal service? exactly. that's what pushes us to deliver smarter simpler faster

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you know what -- no no no. no, no no. no, no no. hey! listen, you're in my house. you don't start -- no no no. as a general rule i am just fine with a few hecklers. but not when i'm up in the house. because you know my -- my attitude is if you're eating the hors d'oeuvres, you know what i'm saying? >> funny. >> well done. >> very funny. >> good to see him smiling. >> what did you learn today? >> i learned so much. i don't know where to start. >> why don't you tell us what you learned. >> i'll tell you that i think it

would be far more important if halperin told us what he learned. >> it's an inside joke. mark. >> that's a big inside joke. i learned that claire mccaskill thinks bernie sanders is to social is on health care to be elected. >> you were very surprised about some of her answers, that he supported universal health care. >> that he's too liberal on health care, trade and deficits to be president. >> what are you doing? what story are you covering on the campaign trail today? >> we've got new new hampshire and iowa polls showing sanders rising and bernie sanders on capitol hill today having a press conference. >> and donald trump makes lawrence o'donnell seethe. >> mika say the wells fargo wagon. >> we're done. >> you can't say that? >> bye. >> oh look over here. there's michael weisman.

>> can you say wells fargo wagon? >> walk. >> there he is. >> if it's way too early, it's "morning joe." stick around "the rundown" is next. see you tomorrow! thanks for your patience. good morning i'm jose diaz-balart. decision day at the supreme court. we'll get to that in a moment. first on "the rundown" a bombshell development in the manhunt for those two convicted killers in upstate new york. a second worker at the prison was arrested last night, is out on bail this morning. gene palmer facing several charges, but he is not accused of helping the inmates escape. he worked in the cell block that richard matt and david sweat escaped from on june 6th and is said to have passed frozen meat to them. the district attorney says another prison worker joyce mitchell who's currently behind bars told police she smuggled tools into the prison by embedding them in the meat