to recap what we know richard matt has been shot and killed. law enforcement says they have found him. david sweat remains at large, but there's a belief by law enforcement he's close. coverage continues. "hardball" with steve kornacki is next. good evening. steve kornacki in for chris matthews. we're following breaking news on that manhunt for those two escaped killers in new york. richard matt one of the two escaped killers, has been shot and killed by a customs and border patrol tactical unit. david sweat is still on the run. police say there is evidence that he's nearby and there have been reports within the last hour of a second round of gunfire as police close in on him. we get the latest now from nbc's john yang at state police

barracks in malone. john? >> steve, here's what we know for certain. the new york state police say that at 3:45 teams working in the woods around malone shot and killed a man they believe to be richard matt. they're awaiting confirmation of that body. here's what we know from law enforcement officials sources. sources tell nbc news that at that time about 3:45 it was a customs and border patrol s.w.a.t. team that was doing a search in that area when they came upon richard matt. there was an encounter, some indications that he might have been armed with a shotgun and an encounter. they shot and killed him. wptz, the nbc affiliate in plattsburgh spoke with a witness in the area who said they heard a single shot. there was not a barrage of gunfire, but a single shot which would suggest a

high-powered rifle took richard matt out. we're also told by law enforcement sources that there was evidence that david sweat was nearby. they did not see david sweat, but there is now a pursuit. they believe they're closing in on david sweat. we've seen this area around malone which is just a little bit south of here south of malone, just be flooded with new york state police. i've seen customs and border patrol vehicles and new york state forestry vehicles flooding the zone. this all came together very quickly today. there was a report yesterday of a break-in of a home here in the malone area a cabin here in the malone area. state police investigated found evidence inside that home. they won't tell us what it is. they will say that there's evidence that the two men picked up some items from that home and left some items from that home. using those items that they

left, they sent it to the state police lab. they got a dna hit, at least one of the escapees in that home yesterday. and then this morning, in a field somewhere nearby they found more physical evidence. they won't tell us exactly what. but this led them to really close in on an area where they believe the two were and they always believed they're together. they have no evidence that they split up. close in on this area that led to that 3:45 encounter that ended with a man they believe to be richard matt dead. steve? >> john what do you know about this reports here of a second round of gunfire? so two different episodes of gunfire? maybe what do we know about this second round? >> essentially all we know is that law enforcement officials are telling us they're -- that a second round has been heard. we don't know what it is. we are saying that it is part of their continuing search for david sweat. they believe he's there.

they believe he's nearby. they're hoping to close in certainly close in before sundown, sundown here is 8:47. in a lot of ways that may be a magic number here. there will be some daylight remaining after the sun drops down below the horizon. but they're hoping to close in i would think hope to close in on him before it gets dark again, and he has the cover of darkness to move. now, i can also tell you that we've been told to expect governor cuomo here at 8:30 to hold a news briefing. he's on his way here from either albany or new york from downstate by air, we're told. and we expect him here for some sort of statement, some sort of briefing at 8:30. receive? steve? >> john, what kind of area here do you sense in terms of the size, what kind of area are we talking about that they think he's in right now? how narrow a space are we talking? >> it's hard to say.

because this area narrowed quite a bit. once they got richard matt and we don't know what evidence they found, what law enforcement officials are telling us on background that they found some evidence that sweat was nearby. we don't know how far away. this is an area around a lake called lake titus. there's a ski area where they've actually had the command post the staging area for the law enforcement -- since last night called mt. titus ski area. we have no sense of how big this area is. i was up there a little bit ago earlier this afternoon before this happened. it is very densely wooded. it is thick forest. it is narrow -- narrow two-lane roads, some unpaved roads. they're looking along this area for the last couple of days. it is narrowing is really the

best i can tell you, steve. >> john please stay with us. late today we got this video from a resident in malone new york. there's a swarm of police activity and a police officer driving by says we have one guy down. take a listen. >> and pretty fast. there's another. >> there's one guy down. >> yea! >> they got one guy? they got the guy? they got one guy? high-five. >> dad they caught one prisoner. >> they got one. >> all right. jonathan gilliam is a retired fbi agent. john yang was just telling us at 8:47 apparently is sundown. that's about an hour 40 from now. how crucial without risk of

casualty, without risk of this guy getting away how crucial to tind find him in this hour and a half. >> probably not as crucial now. because they definitely know this guy is here he's in this closed area. i'm sure they have night vision probably thermals out there. and the amount of manpower that they have had to spread out now because of all these different leads that they've had can now, you know congregate on this one area. so the chance of him getting away and the guys that i've talked to that are out there, they're pretty confident that he's going to come down tonight. now, whether or not he you know lays the weapons down and comes out willingly or decides to go out in a blaze of glory is going to be up to him. >> how dangerous do you thing the situation is right now? >> it's extremely dangerous for him, it's extremely dangerous for law enforcement as well. he's a felon, an escaped felon. he's armed. it won't get any better for him there. till he drops that weapon the

use of deadly force against this individual is justified. >> you know i think back to how this all started a couple weeks ago, what we're learning about the help they got from inside the prison, these two guys. sounds like there was a plan in place for a getaway car. at the last minute she got cold feet. there was no car. it's amazing to me how close they are to the prison. and if they had that car we'd be talking about an entirely different situation right now. >> when you escape from somewhere and you go into nothing. you got fight for water, fight for food fight for shelter. they walk up on a cabin, whether or not that cabin was given to them, the still to be seen. whether it has some food some water, they're not going the leave there. now what happened is they probably ended up getting a bit too comfortable saying let's wait this out. and that played against them. >> jonathan gilliam, please stay with us. >> you got it. >> clint van zandt, we know one

of them apparently went down fighting. he went down shooting. a surprise to you he went out that way, didn't try to surrender or anything? >> law enforcement would give him every chance to surrender. law enforcement said their belief they were armed and dangerous. part of that was on a picture that showed the two of them moving down a trail. there are a number of trails in and out of these areas, hunting trails atr trails. but there was allegedly a trail camera that took a picture of the two of these guys one that at least showed matt carrying a shotgun that one can only suppose may have been obtained from one of these hunting cabins. whether sweat has a weapon or not, we don't know that at this point. but i can tell you every one of those 1100 law enforcement officers that are at that scene or around that scene right now, they assume that he's got a

weapon, and they'll give him every chance in the world to put his hands up. but they're not going to let him point a weapon at any of them. >> what do you think, clint, the mind-set of sweat is right now? he's probably aware his buddy got shot got taken out. i'm sure he knows he's basically surrounded at this point. what do you thing the mind-set is in this situation? >> well part of it is how close was he. now, we've heard suggestions that police have reason to believe that both fugitives were together. now, that reason could be either a physical sighting or it could be something such as footprints two different sized sets of footprints in the same area which would suggest the two fugitives were traveling together. right now, you know they were probably somewhat comfortable over the last three weeks in their ability to evade. perhaps even harboring some delusion that if they stayed there long enough they'd eventually be able to make their

way up into canada which again the state police suggested might be the case this week. but right now this man is running almost like a hunted animal. and i don't mean to diminish the human quality, but i'm saying right now, that's how he may feel. i mean at any moment he can step out of the woods, put his hands up and say, i quit take me back to my private cell in dannemora, and of course they would accommodate that. but he's not doing that. that means he's still on the run, he still may think he can get away. and he still may think he can go over top of law enforcement to make that escape. as far as those men and women are out there, they're there to make sure this doesn't happen. >> just thinking about how authorities have been able to narrow this down and get to this point, about a week ago we were talking about reports from 250, 300 miles southwest of there. supposedly these two guys were spotted coming out of the woods. the town at the pennsylvania

border the towns was shut down. but dna evidence found in the woods confirmed to be these two guy, yet still for the haas five or six days even with that relatively narrow area still not found until tonight. i think that tells us something about how thick these woods are. >> yeah i think it really does but it also tells us about law enforcement and their tenacity. i mean even though they had these leads coming from hundreds of miles away i think the safe money bet on everybody involved was that there's no evidence they left this area so we're going to pursue the hunt as if they're here until we find out otherwise. and i think that has proven to be the right strategy. look, these guys have traveled no more than about 35 miles, it appears, in the 21 days that they've been fugitives. but again, we were told this hunt has cost a million dollars a day. so that means the federal, state, local government there's

$21 million that have been invested to apprehend these two individuals. i think law enforcement wants to make sure that money has been spent well and they want to get this last guy into custody one way or the other. >> jonathan gilliam, let me ask you about that. the idea of if you have -- what is the advice if you're in a situation like this? what are the advice you're giving, what instructions are you giving to the officers that are out there? if you spot this guy, how do you approach hip, what do you say to him? >> all these fers were trained the same way. the main thing you look at in the situation like this are hands. when they walk up on this individual, where are his hands and what are in his hands? like clint was saying a minute ago, these officers aren't dead set on going out there and killing this individual but if they walk up on him, they know he's a murderer. he's trying his hardest to stay away from the cops and they get away they know he's going to go back to jail forever for the rest of his life if he goes

back. if they approach him and he shows them that he has a weapon they don't have to wait for him to pull that weapon up and aim it. he at that point is an imminent threat based on his past track record and based on what's in his hands. the main thing these officers are looking at they're looking for him and they're looking at hands. that's exactly what they're looking for. one of the most interesting things about this this just shows you the day and age that we live cameras in the woods are one of the things that helped catch these two individuals. i mean that's fascinating when you think about it. >> these are cameras that are generally set up by hunters. >> yes. >> they're not always on movement they turn on. >> yeah, they're about the size of your cell phone. you strap them to a tree. >> so they're really inconspicuous. >> they're camouflaged and they're game cameras. they're so common now that hunters go out where the trails are where deer pass on their

land, they're trying to see how many deer come through or what animals come through, they put these trail cameras up. that's one of the most fascinating things about this even in the middle of nowhere, you're still not immune to the camera taking your picture. >> the old line about the tree falls and no one is there. please stay about us. stephanie gosk joins us from malone new york. what's the latest you can tell us? >> this is an active scene. we continue to see law enforcement screaming down this road here route 30 in malone. we just saw a school bus filled with law enforcement. they're obviously moving in. we're hearing our affiliate wnbc in new york has reported that there's been a second gun battle apparently between david sweat and authorities. this comes after the first gun battle that we know left richard matt shot and killed. this has been a nearly three-week-long manhunt after that jaw-dropping prison escape. and people here are beginning to thing that maybe now it's coming

to an end. >> i think we actually here in new york we have jonathan dooents from wnbc. can you pick up on that you guys are reporting about the second gun battle. >> the information that i had on this was that the first suspect was shot and killed richard matt then law enforcement, who were at command posts and out in the field, heard second rounds of gunfire. unclear. and we do also have an unconfirmed sighting from a law enforcement official in the woods in and around this area of the second suspect david sweat. what is happening in and around where stephanie is standing all those police cars and buses is reinforcements are coming in. they've set up a perimeter around this heavily wooded area. they have a good sense of where they think he might be. they want to try to secure this perimeter with as many law enforcement as possible before the sun goes down and then eventually move in.

i believe, as explained to me there's also a body of water nearby that might cut off an escape, one way out. it limits the area they have to cover and secure. so there are literally hundreds of police being brought into this area. it's a secure perimeter. they may try to go in before nightfall and close in this perimeter, move in bit by bit to try to see if sweat is in that perimeter area where they think they've got it cordoned off because a lot of the time the belief is these guys have been moving at night and it's been tougher to track them obviously at night in these heavily wooded areas. so that is what is happening at this hour. at this time. you've got marshals fbi, department of correction from the state, all these agencies sending in resources at this hour to secure this perimeter, this wooded area where richard

matt was shot and killed and where they believe they may, they may have david sweat. >> and again, talking about sundown there. so 8:47 p.m. that's exactly 90 minutes from now. 8:47 is sundown local time there near the canadian border with new york. stephanie gosk go back to you on the scene. you actually have seen the cabin where this dna evidence was found a few days ago. where in relation to where you are now and where this is playing out now, how far away is the cabin? set the scene for us a little bit if you would. >> cabin's about ten miles or so from where we are right now. it was the focus of manhunt just a few days ago. we weren't able to go back there. but we found a couple of local hunters that took us up there now because law enforcement had moved down in this direction near malone and we were able to get back there. what was really incredible about the journey there is on our way on this road that they most likely traveled from the prison you pass probably six, seven,

eight similar hunting cabins. none of those cabins were broken into. what they chose instead was the one we visited, which is off of the road it is up a mile and a half path that you can't go up in a regular car. you have to have some sort of rtv or something -- atv, rather to get up there. we walked to a while. we wondered to hours ofs, how could they have known this was here, how could they have known to continue to do this walk. we get there and the cabin itself had everything they could have possibly needed. food there and beds. if they hadn't been caught they probably could have stayed there for quite a while. one of the questions is how they got their guns. how did they get their guns that they're battling with police with? and one theory is in the hunting cabins, the hunters might store their weapons in the cabins themselves and that may be where they found their guns. >> stephanie, so it's the off-season, how heavily or lightly trafficked are the woods

up there this time of year? is it basically -- do they have it to themselves until now? >> well to some degree they did. there are people who pass through here. these woods are very difficult this time of year in part because of the bugs. it's just an extremely inhospitable place to walk around. there isn't a lot of activity. the hunting season is the fall. it starts really september and goes till december. so it's not heavily trafficked. and there were some people that would go in and check their cabins like this one cabin owner who stumbled across them. now another interesting thing to point out about this cabin, it is owned and partially leased by a group of corrections officers. a number of them. now, the owner that stumbled upon them doesn't work at clinton correctional where these two fugitives escaped from but three of the prison officers who are part of their camp do work there. now, i'll add on top of that that there are 800 prison officers that work in that

prison and a lot of those guys hunt and a lot of those guys have cabins in these woods. i wouldn't want to read too much into that but it is interesting to know. >> stephanie gosk on the scene. let's see if clint van zandt is still with us. we talked about this that it looks like the original plan was they had a car ready to go they were going to come up under the ground, get in the car and take off to who knows where, probably nowhere near where they are right now. but in situations like this when you're on the run, when the plan you have blows up and you're forced to improvise, it seems like a dangerous situation and they were left to make it up as they go along. doubt that there was much planning beyond that. >> i think you're absolutely right. we're told by some sources that it could have taken up to a year to put this entire escape plan to get out of the prison. yet, when they pop out of that

manhole like a whack-a-mole, when they pop out of the manhole at midnight they have to call an audible because the woman who is supposed to pick them up which is obviously the weak link in their plan she's gone and they don't have a secondary plan to fall back on hence, they're left to scramble around in the woods within a 20 30-mile radius of that prison for these entire 21 days. realize these are thick woods, they're hopping from cabin to cabin and they've probably done dumpster diving and cabin diving for food. but it was just a matter of time before law enforcement or somebody was going to see them either to run up on them or else they would finally make a break, try to break out of the area hop a train, get a bus, hijack a car, something like that would have taken place that would have alerted law enforcement. and whatever we find out today

actually took place they surfaced enough for law enforcement to find out they were in the area convince themselves there were not one but two of them. and when the confrontation took place obviously there was one individual killed. and i guess one more point. what's so important for law enforcement, hopefully, that they would have the chance to take david sweat alive unless he forces them to shoot him is there's a whole other part of this investigation. who helped them make the plan who provided tools, who provided access to the prison? there's an entirely stand-alone investigation. it doesn't have the level of dangerousness that an escaped killer does but it still suggests what was going on in that prison and how bad might the corruption be for lack of a better term that allowed at least two prison employees to assist these individuals. was there any more helping them? that is still going to come out in the future.

>> jonathan gilliam on set with us here in new york. so we know apparently they were staying together for all of this time. do you think -- did they help their chances of sort of eluding capture by staying together or if they had just had at some point, let's split up you go this way, i go that way, let's try to fend for ourselves here would that have helped them more? >> i think it probably helped them to stay together. i'll tell you why. if they had split up and started to move the chances of one of them getting caught before they got that far away from the other one, that would have alluded law enforcement to this point where they are right now in this vicinity. the best thing that happened to them is leads, which is typical. this always happens. leads come in from far away because they thing they see something. the one that was 300 miles away. she saw two people walking down a railroad track. how many people do you see walking down a railroad track in the middle of nowhere?

they're up to no good or trying to get from point a to b really fast. they called law enforcement down there. what hurt these guys in the long run is they made a bad relationship and it didn't pay off. had they continued to move though, and not gone to this cabin, i think we'd be having a completely different conversation. because my one critique i do have for law enforcement is that i don't think they had the rapid quick reaction force set up the proper way. our hostage rescue team from the fbi has the ability to fast rope in on site on target. they didn't use that. i don't know why they didn't use these things. i know homeland department of security had these things too. the national guard could have set up a real perimeter. it would have made a difference and got to this point quicker. >> jonathan gillian, we'll continue to follow the developments in the man hunt for

david sweat. his partner richard matt has been shot and killed. our coverage continues right after this. to nana's house... for the whole weekend! [ snoring ] [ male announcer ] zzzquil, the non habit forming sleep aid that helps you sleep easily and wake refreshed. because sleep is a beautiful thing. across america, people are taking charge of their type 2 diabetes... ...with non-insulin victoza. for a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar but it didn't get me to my goal. so i asked my doctor about victoza. he said victoza works differently than pills

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we continue to follow the manhunt for david sweat. he is the second of the two quicked killers who broke out of prison three weeks ago. his partner, richard matt has been shot and killed by a border patrol unit late today. just a short time ago our nbc station wptz interviewed a witness who described some of the police activity that he saw. >> i was sitting on my dock and i heard -- well i first saw a number of armed police on the opposite side of the lake. shortly thereafter i heard a gunshot. >> what went through your mind? >> that they maybe got the escaped prisoner or that maybe he was shooting at them. i really didn't know. i assumed it had something to do with the search for the escaped prisoner. >> and you got out of there. >> i did get out of there.

although i didn't feel imperiled at the time. i received a call telling me what was going on and i was encouraged to leave. >> now, leading up to hearing this gunshot, was the police presence any different than it had been days prior? >> yes. there certainly has been a significant police presence over the last week. but today there were more troopers than normal. the helicopter was flying overhead all day. and that was unusual. so i definitely felt more of a presence today. >> all right, joining me now by phone is brian monet who is a business owner in the malone area. set the scene. you're right there where this is going down. what's the mood in the community like right now? what does it feel like to be there as this is happening? >> well i'm not really in the community. i'm up at titus at the command center and we're just kind of

staying away and letting them do their thing. >> well what's it been like there these past few weeks knowing there's a chance that these guys are in the woods or some the area somewhere near you. you're not too far from that prison. you had to know there was a possibility these guys could be around. what's it been like living up there through this? >> a lot of people have been scared. but our country is a pretty resilient place and there's a lot of wonderful people that live and work here. and you know, couple that with the great people the men and women who work for us the state police and the lot, fortunate, keeping us safe. it's been fun to watch -- i guess the word "fun" -- to watch the community come and rally together and the donation they've been bringing and the water they bring to the different road checks and that. it's been a scared feeling up here that's for sure. >> brian monet, a business owner up there in new york. and john cuff at the u.s.

marshals service joins us now. john, just get your thoughts watching this all play out right now. again, we say a little over an hour from now is sundown up there. what are your thoughts as you watch this play out? >> this is one of the scenarios that we figured might play out. first significant break last week on the dna in that cabin. that was a game changer. immediately you spread that net out into this area. today the finding in the other cabin, the second cabin with dna along with articles and items that were found in the woods, you kind of narrow down the pathway they were taking presumably towards canada that shifted over to that area. again, time is on the side of law enforcement in this one. presumed armed and dangerous all the way. and it washed out the reports that i heard earlier today was that there was a citizen in a camper riding up the highway. hears gunshots calls 911 about

1:30, 1:35 in the afternoon. continues on his way. at some point pulled over. and realizes it was he he was shot at there were bullet holes in the camper. he calls 911 a second time where law enforcement converged on the area which resulted in the shooting and a subsequent manhunt for mr. sweat, which i'm sure will come. darkness like you just mentioned, darkness is against law enforcement on this. but they still have a little light left now and they will contain that area. and i'm sure they're going to have -- >> we think about like the inevitability here of getting this guy whether it's dead or alive. it certainly looks and sounds to me sitting here like he's cornered, like there's no way out. but have you seen situations like this in the past where they somehow even cornered like this get away? >> a person like this will act out of desperation, there's no telling what they'll do. but law enforcement is well aware of that they'll treat

them armed and dangerous, safety first. thank god no citizens or law enforcement was injured up to this point, tactically they know what they're going to do take care of business. >> mary ellen o'toole joins us by phone. a special agent with the fbi. again, one of them shot and killed. the other one still at large apparently, but just talking about what the mind-set of these guys is right now, or as one guy left would be at this point being surrounded by law enforcement, what can he do at this point? what do you think he is doing right now? >> well i think at this point sweat is aware, i mean clearly he's aware that he's getting boxed into a corner. and of the two, it was my assessment that matt would have been the one who was far more psychopathic and that without him now sweat's in a much different situation and he's physical compromised. they've been out for a long

time. he's got all the problems of having been on the run for all these, you know number of days. so my sense at this point is that he's not going to walk out and put his hands up either. it's going to be suicide or suicide by cop similar to what happened to matt. and -- but i do think that matt was really the stlentrength of the two. i wouldn't be surprised if sweat has already suicided. but it's going to be one of those two outcomes. hee he's clearly aware that he cannot go face-to-face with 1100 law enforcement officers and walk away. now just a matter of how he intends to end it. it's my opinion he does not intend to go back to prison because he knows what his life will be like. >> jonathan gilliam, from the moment they didn't get that getaway car, was there a way for

them to somehow evade capture and get away with it. or did they become stuck and it became an inevitable question. >> whenever you don't have outside help you have to turn to crime. that's what these individuals did. whether breaking into a cabin or now, as we see eluding the police officers with weapons. that's the thing that always gets them. if you don't have food you either have to buy it or steal it. water, buy it or steel it. shelter, break in or somebody provides it for you. because that ride wasn't there, they've had to turn to crime someway to support themselves. i'm kind of puzzled as to why matt decided to shoot at something because that was going to be a sheer giveaway. in fact it was, as soon as he pulled the trigger on that weapon, but listen good for us and bad for him. i just really hope that they can get sweat alive because i'm

really eager to see what the background of this investigation is. i mean if he ends up wanting to go out in a blaze of glory, listen, i hope law enforcement does a good job and takes him out. but it will be a benefit to the surrounding community but i'd really like to see what happens in that prison that allowed this to happen. >> i guess that's one of the other questions here this woman who now has been charged and who is -- with helping them out. she didn't take the additional step of providing the car. >> she would have been dead now. >> you thing they would have killed her. >> i think they would have killed her. >> and her husband was a target as well. any consideration for her from authorities as they prosecute her, the fact that she diplomat go through with it and didn't take that extra step. >> everyone that's on the phone or in person with us tonight that's in law enforcement tonight will tell you people who do bad things want to minimize and make shemss look better.

you can believe 50% or more of what she has to say, but there's a good chance she's not going to say enough to where she overincriminates herself. the fact that she's singing like a canary the fact that she'll hold back enough to make her sound like a victim. when you hear the reports of what she said, she sounds like a victim. the fact is victims don't go into closets and have sex. so you know that's the way that cookie crumbles. >> let's go back to john yang at the state police barracks in malone, new york. he's got more information at the prison we were just talking about. >> you can see that they've set up the lectern from governor cuomo's office preparing for that news conference. but that's the other part of this. as this search narrowed here in this area looking for richard matt and david sweat, the search for how they got out, what kind of help they got is really broadening. and we now know nbc news has

learned that several corrections officers are now being investigated. we have joyce mitchell civilian employee in the tailor shop who acknowledges she gave them some tools, hacksaw blades phillips head screwdriver drill bit that she would put it in a hunk of ground beef that she froze, put in the refrigerator, in the freezer, in the tailor shop. a guard she asked to take and deliver it to the two prisoners. that guard is now -- has now also been arrested. there are all sorts of tales. you listen to the guard's statement to gene palmer his statement to investigators, he acknowledges that he gave contraband to these prisoners. he gave them paint acrylic

paint in exchange for paintings that richard matt did. he did portraits. very complex portraits of people like hillary clinton and bill clinton. and he helped them access the catwalks as early as november 2014 so they could fix the electrical box because they were using a hot plate in there, richard matt was using a hot plate in his cell to cook food. all sorts of things are going to be looked at. the fact that prison employees could take packages into the prison without having them searched without having go through metal detectors, that part of the investigation is growing. that's going to be a big focus in the coming days the coming weeks as to how this happened how all this happened inside how all this happened with help

from outside. as they narrow in on the search for david sweat now, i think in the coming day, the search for how this all happened is going to broaden. steve? >> nbc's john yang in malone new york. again up there in malone we're just over an hour away from sunset to sundown, from darkness complicating that search in the woods. we'll bring you the very latest on the manhunt for david sweat. his partner richard matt has been shot and killed. we've got at least 20 minutes, lets do this by their second kid, every mom is an expert and more likely to choose luvs than first time moms live, learn and get luvs you total your brand new car. nobody's hurt,but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do, drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty

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we are again continuing to follow that search under way now way up in upstate new york near the canadian border for that second still at-large escaped prisoner. a lot going on. let's get back to the table here. jonathan dienst wnbc reporter

in new york. you've been following this closely, made a lot of calls. what is et you know at this hour about the status of the search? >> 3:45 this afternoon richard matt was shot and killed by a customs border patrol unit that was out searching for him. there were unconfirmed reports that it was an rv driver that heard shots or attempted to be carjacked, something along those lines that called 911, called police and they may have put them on the trail in addition to the fact that break-ins into cabins nearby resulted in the search being in that area to begin with. so out in the woods, 3:45 richard matt gets shot and killed and the search continues for david sweat. there's reports of additional gunfire. those reports coming from law enforcement officials up at the scene as well as those who have been briefed on the search. the question now is where is david sweat. they believe they have suspect number two cordoned off in a wooded area in the vicinity of where his colleague, richard matt, was shot and killed and

they have called in a ton of resources, law enforcement, and they have that perimeter secured and they're moving in inch by inch, bit by bit to where they think in this area he may be hiding out. they want to get in and get a good look before sundown because these guys have been moving at night. so what happened what was that second round of gunshots? unclear. we have no word that anyone else has been hit and that the search for the second suspect is continuing at this hour and that we're expecting to hear a full update from the governor within the hour to provide us with what the very latest is but as of now, david sweat appears to still be on the loose. they're hoping that he's trapped somewhere within this perimeter and they're moving in. reports of a second round of gunfire unclear exactly what that was about and who was doing the shooting in that matter. >> sundown 8:47 p.m.

it is exactly one hour from right now. will be sundown up there. where this is all playing out. john was just talking about -- and you mentioned the unconfirmed reports about the rv gunfire earlier this afternoon maybe instigating this whole episode today. shots maybe at the rv near the rv. one connection people thing of there is that these guys were trying to get out of this jam, trying to carjack a vehicle that could get them out of there. whether that happened or not, would have been the only potential way out for them. >> this is the logical choice. once that getaway car was not there, we knew they would have to do what they knew best, criminal activity. whether that was break in a house, hold someone hostage, that's one theory, and that house could have been outside the search area but the way this played out along with citizen tips these tips were huge to put them in the area where the sightings were. and the dna evidence corroborating it, it's just a

win/win here for law enforcement. thank god no one got hurt. >> you mentioned the citizen tips, because just the flood of tips that were coming into all the hot lines. last week we were on the air talking about reports down the pennsylvania border. we're talking about 300 miles away from where all this was happening. two guys emerged from the woods called an incredible sighting. that had nothing to do with this. how much when you're in an investigation like this, how many red herrings are you getting from the public too? >> that's common place. that happens any time potential a show like "america's most wanted," tips will come in from all around the country. law enforcement will vet them. because anything is possible until you know. until you had that confirmed sighting last week with the dna found in the cabin. now you knew. up to that point, you have to check out everything. so that was 350 miles away. but this past week the noose

was closing in. and now it's all in sweat's hands now how he wants this thing to end. >> for more on the possible mind-set of david sweat tonight, we're joined by profiler pat brown. pat, as we say, he's looking at less than an hour of daylight now. his partner is not with him any more, his partner is with him. he's got all the law enforcement surrounding him as best they can. he's in those woods that are thick with bugs apparently. what is going through this guy's mind? is there an escape scenario he's playing with or is this about how he's going to end it? >> i think they've been going downhill ever since they did the escape. nrd, in other words, they lost plot early on. really surprising when they ended up in this wooded area. it's been three weeks. this is as far as you've gotten, running in circles around the woods? obviously something went wrong with their escape plan. they didn't have a plan.

it was joyce mitchell and she was supposed to show up and she didn't. whoa, we didn't think of anything else. it's amazing. because i thought this was going to be a very dangerous situation, because if she was telling the truth and didn't show up, the next thing you do is in my opinion, is go for the nearest house you can that has a car or a motorcycle human beings, anything to grab what you can get and get out of town. so, i am not quite sure when they made the decision to go wander off into the woods and hide, because that's you know that's a way to get trapped. i mean that absolutely is a way. as we see, that's exactly what happened. so, at this point, sweat has -- i mean, he's had three weeks of failing to do anything useful. and now his buddy's dead and he's you know probably surrounded. and you know yeah it's going to end with either sweat giving up or getting killed. i don't see it any other way. i don't think he's going to be escaping at this point, so he just probably knows it's all over. >> and pat, i mean these two guys -- we'll learn more probably about their relationship and how they sort of got together in the first

place, but the decision they made here at some point to stick together in all of this given what you know about them, their mind-sets mind-sets, the minds of criminals. is it surprising they stuck together and didn't turn on each other, didn't separate? >> you know the whole thing -- one of the problems we have when we're on the outside of any investigation is we just don't know enough about them nor do we know enough about the layout of the land there. so, we can't look through their eyes because we're not standing there going, you know gosh i guess they couldn't have grabbed a car right here because there isn't anything for ten miles, because we just don't know. usually when you do is you go back and look at history. i'm sure that the police and investigators did look at this their history, what kind of people were they how did they think, you know what was their relationship. we're talk being two psychopaths, so you know they can turn on each other in three seconds flat if they're not useful to each other any longer. i guess at that point, they decided they're useful to each other. again, the most likely things one would expect is they were split up early on because we were looking for two, go

separate directions do what you've got to do and go where you want to go. i would assume matt with his history of going to mexico that might have been the direction. i don't if it's just that they got completely blown away when joyce mitchell didn't show up and that was just, like, they lost sight of any future plans, you know? i guess that's what happened. and a good thing, too. i'm shocked that citizens weren't hurt you know. it's just amazing. i mean this is about the best ending as you could ever want. >> yeah you can only imagine what went through their minds when they came up through that manhole after going through so many layers to get out of prison and that car's not there and then they're forced to -- >> i can't believe what that -- did to us you know what i mean? they must have been going through that. and it's kind of funny, because she was dealing with psychopaths and god knows what they were dealing with in return. so, if they put their trust in her or they just thought they were so good at what they did that certainly, she would never change her mind. i mean it's just kind of funny, because it's like obviously,

she's got her issues they've got theirs and if they put all their faith in here they just made a big mistake, didn't they. >> thank you to pat brown. appreciate you taking a few minutes tonight. we continue to follow the developments as police close in on escaped prisoner david sweat. sweat is still on the loose after three weeks, but his partner, richard matt, has been shot and killed. our coverage returns after this. there's nothing more romantic than a spontaneous moment. so why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? with cialis for daily use, you don't have to plan around either. it's the only daily tablet

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that. if we do get into a situation here where they have not caught this guy, they have not found this guy and it's dark in those woods, what are they doing overnight? what are they doing in the dark woods? what's the situation there? >> well, i think he's going to have a tougher time than they do, because now all the resources that they have 1,100 officers, more or less, are now converged on that one area. they also have helicopters. i'm presuming presuming that they have some type of night vision out there. this is one guy that's trying to evade 1,100 officers and helicopters and technology. it just got incredibly harder for him, because we're not looking at hundreds of square miles now. we're looking at 10 20 square miles. and they pretty much know where he's at now. so, i think it's going to get much more difficult, and i would go as far as to predict, unless some miracle on his part happens, tonight and at the latest tomorrow he'll be caught or dead. >> and john if you were up there right now and you were looking to give advice to the officers who are up there, to the authorities who are up there right now, what is the advice

you're giving them for how to pursue the situation right now? >> just maintain your cool like has been going on all along in this case. close in the perimeter as much as you can. safety first. you don't want any good guys or good women, guys to get hurt on this, okay? maintain that perimeter. you've got him corralled in there. it's on him, what he wants -- the decision is his. he's probably hunkered down burrowed in somewhere, presumably. does he want to surrender? does he want to do suicide by police? does he want to do suicide himself in these are all options. >> do you have a sense in these situations how often they decide, i don't want to kill myself, i don't want to kill anybody else i just want to give up? does that happen a lot? >> we've seen suicides. we've seen suicide by prissolice, all scenarios. but here you're dealing with a desperate guy who is apparently a psychopath. so if anybody can figure his mind-set out. >> we're closing in on 8:00 8:47 p.m. will be sundown, upstate new york where the hunt

for the last escaped convict continues. thank you to jonathan gilliam, john cuff jonathan dienst for joining us. it is "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes on a huge historic absolutely head-snapping news day. this friday on one of the most consequential weeks in the presidency of president obama. today was the day that the supreme court legalized same-sex marriage in all 50 states. we will talk to the plaintiffs who brought the case live from the historic stone wall inn in just a minute. you see them there. today was also the day that president obama gave a passionate and rousing eulogy to the slain pastor of emanuel ame church in charleston delivering one of the great speeches in recent memory and even leading the congregation in the singing of "amazing grace." we will play you that and take yo