matt's the same way. you know, vicious murderer of his boss and dismember the body. not because they were great or clever or brilliant, just because they are so vicious. and that viciousness really is what led joyce to be scare and the -- scared and not show up. that didn't help them. i don't think we are going to find out that much more intriguing information. >> about these two.

>> reporter: it was two miles from the border north of here, not far from the border at all, a town called constable. he was shotten here, taken here to the alice hyde medical center. want to give you a look once again at the state here, state police, local police surrounded the area. this is a very secure hospital, obviously. make sure he is secure, save him and deal with the wounds that he has. and make sure that he survives so they can talk to him and get every little detail as to what happened not only in the jailbreak, how they got out, the details, who helped them with tools? how did they do it? how did they get to the catwalk? how did they get to the pipe? once they got out, how involved was joyce mitchel? >> how involved was gene palmer? once out, how did they survive here in the wilderness? 6 million acres here in the

adirondacks. how were they able to survive for so long? obviously, more importantly, they want to know how they were able to get out of jail and who was involved, who helped them out, who knew about it? they want to know all those details, for that to happen, he must survive. so they are here at the hospital in the emergency room dealing with his wounds. it's possible they could transfer him to a nearby trauma center. that would be in albany. we learned today some of the results of richard matt's autopsy. he was shot in the head. he had multiple abrasion and bites on his lower extremities, clearly a sign that he was out in the wilderness for three weeks, in the elements and you can bet, david sweat had some of those same injuries, bites and wounds and abrasions, all about his body. he is here now in the emergency room being treated by officials here and possible they could transfer him, depending on his wounds to a level one trauma center. i believe the closest one would be in albany. >> right now, we don't know

exactly how severe his wounds are, do we, adam? >> reporter: no, no, we don't. but we can bet, aside from the wounds, that he was just emaciated, cold, wet, tired and hungry. he had been out on the run three weeks so quits possible he is happy to be in a hospital bed being treated. governor cuomo will be holding a news conference at 6:45 eastern time, we will be taking that live. adam, can you tell us what it is like up there what the weather is like, what the men have been surviving in, what are the temperature temperature temperatures? >> reporter: two out of the three weeks they were on the run, it has been raining, raining basically constantly for three weeks. 16 out of the 23 days, it was raining. yesterday, it was sunny. it was cloudy. it was very warm. today, it's been raining all day. it started about midnight last night.

it's been expected to rain for another day or two. so, the weather has been miserable. you can bet they were miserable. the conditions, even if it weren't range, would be miserable out in the brush, very uncomfortable situation. hazardous terrain out in the woods. described to us by people who are experts, can't see five feet in front of you. hazardous conditions. might have been going cabin to can. we don't know. might have been in the wilderness, sleeping under the stars. we don't know. >> adam -- >> reporter: we know based on richard matt's autopsy, his lower extremities were beaten up by bug bites. >> what were the temperatures there overnight? what were they surviving in? >> reporter: low 50s, high 40s. cold. >> reporter: with the cold rain, it is just miserable. it is cold. you know, they might have suffered from hypothermia. we just don't know. again, miserable conditions. the rain had just been going on

for 16 out of 23 days that they were out. >> stay with us, adam. i want to go to larry laut., a lane enforcement expert and author. larry, what is your take away from this? >> they finally got him. i don't think they will get much out of him. here's why not just that they are going to be known as a snitch. it is even snitching on guards. so and the guards in there. and i'm not talking hierarchy. not talking about the wardens, associate warpeds, case managers, i'm talking about other guards that deal with these gueys day to day. they know they are the only link to a human being and now the guards looking at them, like, hey, kind of like the blue wall of silence you have with lower-level police officers. so going to be the same thing here. >> what do you mean the blue wall of silence? >> they protect their own.

now r now, if they expect david sweat to roll over on cops, we call them cops in prison, the guards, that is not going to happen. not only does he have any incentives? he won't have incentive to the inmates, a hero for some. got away, caused them $100 million in costs to get these guys now, what are you going to do, prison and tell on everybody involved -year-old-year-old e, d involved, orderlies, tell the guards feeding them, giving them an extra milk in sn? not going to get anything out of. this the state won't come up and say your own cell, not treated bad, in lock down the rest of their life. so i don't think there's an incentive to tell, even the

guards, the other guards. there's a lot going on in a prison. i lived in a prison for ten years, maximum security prison for 11 years and not going to be much going on now that, you know, that doesn't go on. yes. they used to bring in drugs and they would bring in cell phones and liquor and open doors for us to get to places so we can make wine in prison. there's a whole -- >> making wine in prison? oh, my gosh. >> they make wine, make wipe. i mean, you know, i often talk about that in my program. in prison, you can get anything you want, any drug you want, cocaine, heroin, marijuana. they make alcohol in their cell and even make moonshine in prison. >> and do the drugs come in from the corrections officers? do they come in from advivisitoo the inmates? >> they come multiple ways. one way is the visit room. what have what they call contact visits and passed through cavities of the body and then get it through, because people

searched coming and going but it gets in. and also, there was times i witnessed guards bringing in massive amounts of narcotics or alcohol or cell phones right into a guy's cell on a saturday or sunday. so, there is corruption. and again, i'm not going to say every guard, because it is not like that but there is a percentage, every business, every profession, that is not, you know, doing the right thing. and what do they do? going to bring in -- there was a guy one prison i was in making $10,000 a month as a drug dealer in prison. >> wow. >> these are facts. >> as we are pulling back the curtain on this prison situation, all of the missteps and lack of security that was there, you mentioned that if david sweat goes back to that prison, he may be more popular -- really any prison he goes to he may be the most popular guy on the block. he may be the top dog, right? so, what incentive does he have to -- does he have to tell the

police anything? >> absolutely none. 'cause not only that, if he tell tells law enforcement, he is the top dog in there. when you say pull back the curtain on the system, could i tell you stuff that goes on in prison, been going on in prisons for years. not only the amounts of rapes and things, which they really need to get into the culture of what's going on behind bars. last year, the department of justice had over 200,000 reported rapes in prison. 200,000 reported rapes in prison. and there is a percentage done by guards. that's facts. that's not me. so the whole entire curtain on the system is what i live. and if you look in my prison, i spent 11 straight months and three years in the hole or shoe, spesh housing unit, for exposing

death fights going on in the federal bureau of prisons. i was in atlanta, maximum security prison, built in 1903 about 40-foot walls, 20 feet underground, three feet thick and we used to watch the inmates and people would go behind the cat combs and behind the walls because the prisoners fix everything in prison. so when you say pull back the curtain, i knew everything that was going on. none of this shocked me at all with this civilian worker and the guard. and if they really do a deep investigation into clinton or any other facility, it's going to open up a can of worms that maybe is needed in this country because our whole prison system is broke, whether it is putting people in. why don't you have a prison just for maximum -- guys who are dead murderers? guys who are never getting out? 'cause we would have guys like myself, who had what they call a date. i had a 12-year sentence for

robberies. and didn't kill anybody. i didn't hurt anyone. but i had robberies. and it was wrong. i never -- i always emphasize that now i'm an honorary police officer and recognized on the floor of congress for helping people. but my point is, why am i on the same floor as guys that i know who has three murders, cut up a body? this guy, you know is a gang leader and had multiple murders. so i was in a prison with 23,000 inmates. 880 had life sentences. and in the federal bureau of prisons, that means they have letters, that means they are never getting out. there's no date. there's no parole. there's no 25 to life. saying they should segregate the population that would be more effective. i want to go to zeking upper, international bounty hunter, coming to us from l.a. what do you think did and didn't happen as these men were hunted and finally, subsequently found? >> this was an amazing fugitive investigation. textbook law enforcement on the ground and the seu units did an

amazing job. they had their perimeter set up quick. responded to the first incident. took out the target. set up another perimeter, worked a perimeter, found the second target, took him into custody. it was textbook and law enforcement did exactly everything they should have done when they did it. as we spoke about earlier in the week, it was all about not chasing the red herring. it was about working the perimeter. the only reason these guys got where they got was that the perimeter slowed them down so much that they had to stay in rural areas. you have to remember that these men had to commit a crime every time they needed something. if they needed something to eat, they had to steal it. they if thneeded shelter, this had to break in. they wanted to get a vehicle, they had to carjack it. these are all the incidents we discussed prior in the investigation last week that would allow the perimeter to move with the investigation along with the seu units providing information to the boots on the ground. as you can see, we have one

dead, one apprehended, as we expected. >> zeke, are you surprised, given the fact it took three weeks, given it was cold and rainy, these guys could elude the police for week wills? >> it is rural. the police officers have to rest. they are worn out. the k-9s have to rest. bringing new troops in all the time, these guys are constantly moving and law enforcement has to move along with them. so you know, not a lot amount of time. we have seen incidents where it has taken years to catch fugitives. this was relatively quick. >> the terrain though is especially difficult in this area. >> absolutely. absolutely. >> what i think these guys have been in prison, they are really not used to being outside and living in the wild. >> that's correct. they haven't been out in society for a long time. so, coping skills, you have to remember the weather, the

elements, lack of food, lack of sleep, they become delusional. they start to make mistakes. that's what we count on, as fugitive investigators, them makingmistakes, which allows us to apprehend. they. >> go back to clint van zandt. when you look at the terrain, are you surprised they were able to elude law enforcement for this long? >> well, i guess the answer is yes and no. as one of your correspondents suggested, there are 6 million acres of woods up there. i don't care if you have 1300 police officers and atf and marshals and fbi or not, that's heck of a lot of woods to stomp through. again, having been on hunts like that and when you realize you're walking through the woods, many times you've got your hand out in front, kind of pushing branches out of your way, you got a handgun or a long gun in your arm when you're going

through that and you realize that the fugitive could be hunkered down and any noise you make is going to attract his or her attention and they can shoot you as you are going through there, that has been a tremendously high stress dangerous situation for the men and women going through there. and part of that says you're taking your time when you do it. number one, your life's this danger. number two you don't want to miss anything. if these guess got hunting clothes, fatigues, anything out of any of these cabins, they could be hunkered down under a tree or alongside a rock or something and you might not even see them till you pass by. and then they have got a shot at your back. highly dangerous. >> oh i want to go to adam reiss right outside the medical center where david sweat is in custody. adam? >> reporter: i'm joined by julie molnar. she was here as the ambulance arrived with david sweat. she is also a local pastor. let's first talk about when the

ambulance arrived, what did you see? >> i came running up park street here and to 4th street and the ambulance was pulling around the corps and i was actually in the ambulance -- the emergency room parking lot and i videotaped the doors opening and i couldn't see around the backside, but they were bringing him n >> it was an ambulance from constable. >> constable. yes. >> okay. and what was the scene like in terms of the intensity, the urgency as they brought him in? >> there was two cars pulling in very quickly and then made me move become and i got a little bit more video from the side view but then they stopped me quickly and made me come over here. >> now, let's talk, you're a local pastor. what is the name of your church? >> new covenant church. >> tell me what the residents of malone have been going through these three weeks? >> well, it's been very tense. we are not used to this kind of atmosphere around here. people are very laid back and friendly. it has been awful to always be

looking around and worried what might happen. >> i have talked to some people who said they are long gone early on. >> right. >> others said i'm sleeping next to my rifle. others said i'm not worried a bit. what was it like in terms of your parishioners and give me some anecdotal evidence, how they were feeling, what they were saying to you. >> okay. well a lot of them were thankful that they had firearms and some slept with them. they are peace-loving people but they thought this is the safe way to go. and just having locked doors wasn't enough. and so, they decided, well, we better prepare for our family, just in case. >> friday night, richard matt was killed. what was the reaction after that? >> elated. and very sad that had to end that way, obviously. and then we were waiting to see if david sweat, the other one, was going to be caught answered didn't and we were just like, oh, no, here we go again. >> so we are about 20 to 30 miles from the correctional facility.

did your parishioners ever worry about anything like this? i know the locals in dannemora didn't worry because it never happened before. what was the mood here? >> right. right. well, i think most people weren't too worried because we were so far away, you know, and it's mountainous area. we found out they were at that first camp, they were like, oh oh, it's very close. we actually had some local people at the franklin county jail escape about ten years ago and my brother was on top of our church building working on it and he actually saw the two prisoners escaping across the farm field and he was the one that helped apprehend them. >> again, when this happened and we learned they were in owl's head and might be in our midst here, what was the reaction? what did they tell you? >> well, they were very afraid. as a matter of fact, my daughter lived right close by where the perimeter was set up. she was right on the very edge. and they wouldn't let her through, but she said, i have to get home to my animals and stuff. and, you know, people were just

very tense, very prayerful. >> speaking of prayers, next sunday, what will you say to them? >> well, actually, this sunday, we lifted up in prayer all the people that were involved in this hunt and we were just saying how grateful and how thankful we are to them, have such dedicated people in the police force and we actually prayed for david sweat, that he would be found alive. you know? >> you can forgive? >> yes. yes. just it would give closure to people who want to know what happened. >> we have closure. thank you very much. >> thank you, sir. >> page, closure, relief, what they are thinking here in malone. >> yes, ma'am i want to read to everybody the press release from the new york state police. approximately 3:20 p.m. on june 28th, a member of the new york state police spotted a suspicious man walking down a roadway in the town of constable. the state police member shot and

injured clinton correctional escapee david sweat. sweat was taken into police custody alive and taken into a local hospital for treatment of his injuries. his condition is unknown at that time. that is from the new york state police. we were just talking with adam reiss outside the alice hyde medical center where david sweat is in custody. i want to go now to clint van zandt. when you read that, it was shocking that david sweat would just oubt walking offen a roadway. >> again, realize, 1300 officers, they were in the woods, they were on the road watch and again, they were probably as worn out and tired as somebody can be. he has probably been on a dead run since matt was shot. and the path of least resistance is going to be a roadway. you know, i heard earlier that a new york state trooper sergeant, hundreds of troopers out there, but this particular there wering

as you just reported, saw sweat walking down the roadway, challenged him. sweat took off running. the trooper commanded him to stop, shot him and that's what brought him into custody. and rightfully so new york state police, they were up there they were the lead agency. they probably have the vast majority of the manpower and fire power out there. we are happy that anybody would get this guy in custody, but i think it's right. in law enforcement, if it's your case, you want your agency to handle it. it's just wait law enforcement works. and i think we are glad to see the state troopers do this. >> i guess though asking as a profiler, it is just stunning that he would actually be out in the open walking. >> yeah. and i guess my response to that is he was taking the path of least resistance. he was exhausted, worn out. he was probably out of food,

supplies, water, everything else. and you know, the question to ask him is where do you think you were going and how did you think you were even going to get there? again, we are told by your correspondents, only two miles from the canadian border, that may have been the thought that he heldness -- that he held onto, at least if i can get to that border, maybe i can get across a jogger during a 10k or marathon, you want to get to that wall. in his mind, that may have been the final thought he had, the only thing i can do is continue my mission to get away. of course, new york state police were right there waiting for him. >> i want to go to washington, d.c. we have arthur roderick. he was the deputy assistant at dhs. can you give us your thoughts this afternoon with this capture of david sweat? >> sure. i mean, this is a fantastic job by superintendent d'amico, the new york state police, of not

only capturing sweat, but also holding together 1300 law enforcement officers from federal, state and local agencies much it is absolutely great day for law enforcement. i was very concerned here we are, this is sunday. you know, wednesday, people are going to start heading up there for vacation for the extended weekend. and i think when people do go up there they will probably find that their cabin was broken into at some point in time. so, we might still hear some reports about cabin break-ins as people come up for the holiday weekend. i also find it very odd, i understand they were running for the border, it wasn't like it was freedom. interpol had blue notices out for the individuals, because if they did get across the border, be picked up on the blue notices, also, our canadian partners across the border were very much aware of this.

[ overlapping speakers ] >> what are blue notices? >> interpol has a series of different colored notices that they put out for different types of cases, whether it's a missing person, wanted fugitive. in this particular case, because of new york state law is kind of unique in that if you go out and get a warrant for a specific individual and they are charged, they have an automatic right to an attorney. so a blue notice is just a law enforcement-to-law enforcement notice, please be on the lookout and hold these individuals until law enforcement can come and pick them up. >> are you surprised that david sweat was just walking on the road, out in the open? >> not at all. in fact, you know, in past escape cases, my previous agency, the u.s. maher shals, is once, when a couple of fugitives break out of jail, one one is caught, usually within 24, 48 hours, the other one will get grabbed.

i think clint's assessment, your previous speaker is right on. path of least resistance is wait to go hit a highway, try to make it to canada and eventually got picked up due to the road blocks and the hardened cord.oned area that the new york state police have. >> why is it the standard within 48 hours, you catch the remaining fugitive? >> just from an experience point of view. i mean, when you have two fugitives that escape, they stay together. i mean, they bolster each other psychologically, physically, they can get some sleep, they can get some rest while the other one's watching. so i think when they split up, you know, they have more of a tendency to make a mistake. in this particular case, with 22 days, both these individuals are completely physically and mentally drawn to the end. and i think that's what happened here in this case. >> we have been talking a great deal today about all of the

problems in the corrections institute and everything that went wrong and all the holes in the safety net, i guess. what is your take on that? are we going to have to have an overhaul? >> appears, obviously, the inspector general for the state of new york is already looking at what was going on at that particular facility. complacency usually lends itself to escapes. and that's what happened here. and i think you're going to have to have a complete overhaul, a look at all their guidelines and regulations as to what was going on in that facility and luckily, sweat captured alive, his notoriety obviously has grown across the country at this point. and internationally. he will talk. although he has nothing to look forward to, he will tell his story. why do you think he will talk? what is his incentive? just notoriety at this point. i mean, granted, he is going to go back to some solitary confinement, but obviously, he

will be a rock star in the prison subculture. >> but if he talks, he will be a snitch. >> who is he snitching on? snitching on correctional officers. >> possibly guards, right. >> correct. that's not really being a snitch in the eyes of criminals. >> the guards are the people who will be overseeing him. >> right. right. i don't think he is going to be going back to clinton correctional facility. he won't see that facility again. he will go to another facility, highly guarded, highly protected, there is a whole other aspect coming into view of high-threat prisoner transportation, high-threat prisoner custed to day. this will come into place at this time. >> learning so much about the prison culture, as jim cavanaugh saying at one point, the prison society, so different from what we think. is there sort of a camaraderie or fraternity among prison corrections officers so that even if he goes to a different facility, if he has, in fact, snitched, he might be treated

poorly because he snitched on guards? >> that is a good question. that is a possibility. because he is such a high-profile prisoner at this point, he is looking at solitary confinement, you know, for a while. obviously, he originally got the death penalty and because new york state did away with it he was serving life without parole. he has got nothing to look forward to other than the notoriety of this particular escape. >> can you tell us a little bit about what solitary confinement entails exactly? >> i know generally what it means in the federal system, i'm specifically looking like florence, colorado, the max of facilfacility. you're 23 hours a day in your cell, a workout room connected to your cell and one hour a day for that particular activity and you are back in your cell for 23 hours. i'm not quite sure how it is in new york state but i know from

the federal point of view, that's how it is, florence, colorado, facility. >> obviously, this would break the prisoner down emotionally. >> yes. absolutely. >> the most severe type of incarceration. >> exactly. a complete lack of human contact is what it comes down to. >> are you surprised he didn't get further? >> not really. once joyce mitchell didn't show up to pick him up, they didn't have a plan b. why didn't they have a plan b? because it's something that really entirely wasn't in their control. the escape portion of this, for them to get out of the prison, was in their control. but plan about was not in their control. they had to take their best shot at it and that was joyce mitchell. both these individuals have been in jail for an extended period of time, and it seemed like they didn't have much family support or support from other friends or associates. so, plan b was, hey, we are on foot, we got to break into cabins and he with just to sur

life -- survive this and get out of the danger area. >> let people know there is a facebook post from the sister-in-law of one of david sweat's victims and she posted the following on facebook. "feeling so thankful for all the members of law enforcement that have spent the last three weeks away from their families to track down these animals. also thankful that none of them were injured during the manhunt. i'm certain that coach wkevin w watching all of you. thank you for all you do every day. kevin can now rest in piece." she is the sister-in-law of one of david sweat's victims. people are starting to get the news. i want to let everybody know, just tuning in right now, david sweat, the remaining fugitive who was on the lam, has been captured. he was shot. he is in custody. he is right now in a medical center in malone, new york. that is where we find adam reiss, who has been outside talking to people.

adam? >> reporter: it was about 3:20 this afternoon in constable, two miles south of the canadian border, ten miles north of here. he was apparently walking along a road. state police officers spotted him and shot him. we don't know more details, if there were some kind of a confrontation between the two. again, 3:20 this afternoon, almost exactly 48 hours after the richard matt was shot and killed, they found him on a road two miles south of the border. so he had made his way north from here about eight miles, two miles south of the border, again, ten miles north of malone, shot by a new york state police officer, one of 1300 law enforcement officers that were out here on the hunt. he had managed to elude them for more than three weeks. he is now at the alice hyde medical center behind me here in malone. we don't know the ex-tent tent

injure richie injuries. numerous law enforcement officers have secured the perimeter here and have locked down this area. we don't know, again, the ex-tent of hex ex ex-tent of his injuries. for now, he is here in the emergency room at the alice hyde medical center and i can tell you talking to a local pastor, other local residents, they are relieved. page? >> okay. adam, thanks so much. stay with us. i want to go to zeke unger. he is joining us from l.a. zeke, we are hearing about how they could have possibly alluded police. somebody is talking about pepper, that law enforcement was finding a all right ing ing a it is thought to hide their scent. >> the moisture has more do with it than anything.

pepper technically can detract from the scent but doesn't eliminate it. moisture, on the other hand, especially raining so many days constantly can throw the scent off, giving canines a little bit of a difficult time. >> you're a bounty hunter. are you is you asurprised david was walking down a road in constable new york, plain as day? >> we talked about the mindset of a fugitive over the last two weeks. very stressful. having to constantly steal for everything they get, commit a crime every time they need something. it is a tough way to go. along with the law enforcement officers chasing them. it is tiring for everybody. when you stay focused, this is the results you get in a fugitive speculation. >> what is david sweat, we are speculating, walking on a road is a good idea in plain sight? >> it's flat and no obstructi obstructions. i'm sure he was very tired. and psychologically drained.

his brain was literally mush. you know, you go into this mind set of, as we all do sometimes, of stress and we know what stress does to us on a regular basis. you can imagine compounding it as a fugitive for the last 21, 22 days. i want to go back to arthur roderick. are you is ssurprised, these tw men, when richard matt was alive, that they didn't get further? >> the terrain is very rough in that area. who knows exactly which direction they were going in. i'm not surprised. we had fugitive escapes before we caught individuals a couple miles from the facility they got out of two or three days later. so, without plan a coming up and

working its way through with joyce mitchell, their only other option was on foot, which, you know, you have seen the terrain up there. i have been in terrain like that before looking for fugitives, it is really tough on your body and really difficult to move through with any type of speed. >> what do you think law enforcement officials are doing now in terms of getting information out of david sweat? letting him just now recuperate and when he is feeling better they are going to talk to him or go in right now when he is vulnerable and he is maybe a little bit delusional? >> well, i don't know. i heard reports he was shot in the back twice and bleeding heavily. you know, obviously, he has been shot. they might be rushing him into some type of surgery. i'm sure he is doped up on some type of pain killers at this point. they probably initially talked to him if he was conscious. but i think the real questions are going to come further down the line here. >> we were talking a lot about what his incentives are to say

anything, if he has any incentives at all. >> right. >> what -- i guess -- my question is there is no upside for him, no matter what. i guess to get those little gave othe -- favors of a hot plate or something? ? >> how he got into the honor block is beyond me at this point. he is not even going to get that there are guideline issues at that particular prison. the only thing he has going for him right now, wherever he goes, he is going to be a rock star in that particular prison. that subculture is very -- it is a set culture. based on your crime and what you did is how high you are in that subculture. right now this guy is right up at the top. >> was he pretty prest teigioups that the right word, given that he was a murderer?

something that gave you a high ranking? >> not only a murderer but killed a law enforcement officer. so, yes, yes that definitely added to it. obviously, this particular escape, i don't think believe this was his first escape either. this guy does have quite a reputation. >> we do know that this guy has quite a reputation. >> exactly. >> what do you think the lessons are going to be from this whole escape? do you think that the problems that we saw at this correction facility are systemic throughout many in the united states right now? >> i don't know about systemic. you know, when you have a facility set up in a rural area like this and it is the main employer within that county, you can see where, you know, they probably had two or three generations of a family that worked at that facility. this facility was built in 18940. could be five, six, seven generation. you develop a sense of comp

place seine circumstance sort of like "the titanic" will never sink. nobody will ever escape from that particular facility. we saw this same type of attitude at alcatraz. it was the same watch you get comp place sent and that leads to these situation. we want to throw up a time line and map exactly where they were. june 6th was when they broke out of dannemora. june 26, friday, where richard matt was killed in the town of malone and david sweat shot, he is alive, in the town of constable, where he was walking, plain as day, on the streets, shot by a new york state police officer. and you can see, it looks as if he was headed for the border, which was probably a little bit naive. >> this suspect the 1920s or '30s, you cross the border with canada or mexico, you will get a

freedom. i know our friends across the border, rcmp, toronto police services, provincial police, were all on alert about this particular guy, all ready to pick him up, or both of them up initially. there wasn't going to be any sense of extreme freedom by crossing the border works have made it a little more difficult on this side but such a great working relationship with our canadian partners she would have continued the same way we were here. >> zeke unger, what do you think? do you think he would have been snapped up immediately in canada and working with the canadian authorities? >> absolutely. one of the things that fugitives have in their mind is if they go over an international border, that it's the end all. the treaties that we have with these countries and the relationships that the united states marshal's service fugitive task force has brings these people back on provisional warrants and blue notices almost immediately. it takes a little bit of

paperwork but these people are back in our country fairly rapidly. >> i want to read you a new update that just came out from the no new york state police another press release, approximately 3:20 p.m. on june 28th, sergeant jay cook of the new york state police spotted a suspicious man walking down a roadway in the town of constable and of course, he shot him that man was david sweat and david sweat is now in custody. but wanted to let everybody know that it is sergeant jay cook of the new york state police. and i guess congratulations are in order for him today. tell us a little bit more, zeke, about what was going through dav david sweat's mind? >> of course, being delusional at this point, there wasn't a lot going through his mind except trying to exist. for some delusional reason, trying to make it to the border or over it. and this is the mindset of somebody who has been on the run study for 22 days. we knew this was going to happen and we called it since the

beginning. it was worked effectively by law enforcement, not chasing red herrings. this is what we came up. came one another one in custody. >> clint van zandt, i hope you're still with us. >> i am. >> what do you think lies ahead for david sweat. to be ve obviously, nothing very good, but what do you think? >> i think 23 hours a day should he survive his wounds, 23 hours a day, he is going to be looking at very close walls and -- his cell walls and i doubt if he is going to have anywhere close that he can look out a window or anything else. as your previous guest says, he may have achieved rock star status within a prison, realizing the hierarchy probably starts at the bottom where you have child sex offenders and goes to the top, depending if someone is an escapee from prison or perhaps shoots a law enforcement officer. whatever prison he goes to is

going to make sure he doesn't have an audience to perform in front of. realize, this guy will want a whole court in prison, should he survive. everybody will want to hear the story. everybody will want to vicariously live through what he did and maybe whatever he did, roll that into their plans of escaping. this guy has probably lost his last inmate contact with others again, should he live, for a very long time. >> wouldn't even want him in the population? >> no. no. i would think they won't -- they don't want him in general population. they don't want him to get a hero status. they don't want other inmates to try to emulate what he did. they don't want him to share information with other inmates. this guy is going to look at four walls very close to him and that's about as much as he is going to see on a daily basis. >> we have been hearing it is usually within 48 hours that they -- when one fugitive, they

split up, in this case, richard matt was shot, they would find david sweat. why is this 48 hours sort of the standard? >> well, i think the interesting thing is with the very rare exception, when you have inmates who escape, especially who put, ber to we are told, up to a year worth of planning. you realize this suspepuspec su- this isn't just getting power tools and hamburgers and cat walks, and light so you can seattle night this is manipulating joyce mitchell and corrections officer by the name of palmer and perhaps other manipulation going on. this took a very long time to do but what we find is these escapees, they front load everything. everything goes in to getting out of those four balls and once they get out if they don't have family support or something else it is like what do we do now?

where do we go? i got out, i'm experiencing freedom, but i don't know what to do with it. and time and again, they wind up on the inside, knowing right now as we talk, there are about 130 escapees from state and federal prison that are out and about the united states now that have committed similar perhaps serious crimes, any were that would cause them five or ten years up to murder. individuals are -- these aren't walk-aways from prison farms, individuals who somehow have escaped from prison, about 130 o of them still out there i guarantee you, we don't have 1300 law enforcement officers looking for every one of them. we have to hope that eventually they make a mistake. may not be trying to cross the canadian border but maybe going five miles over the speed limit when a police officer stops them, realizes who they have got and they go back on the inside again. >> hopefully other prisons are

going to look at holes in their security and shore them up after this. we want to let everybody know we now know that david sweat is being transferred to the albany medical center. we don't know if he is going to be flown there or not, but transferred to the albany medical center some time today. what do you make of that, clint? >> i think it suggests that his wounds are somewhat serious. i have seen various e-mails indicating they were serious, add lot of tram match as one of your guests suggested, he had been shot at least two times, that there was a lot of bleeding going on at the time. so, you know, i always find it interesting, and it is the right thing to do, but here we have 1300 law enforcement officers hunting this guy down, ready to bring into justice, we shoot him and the next thing we do is do everything we can in a world to

save his life. >> also want to get information from him, right? urge we have video of police cars racial around the time he was caught. this is in the town of constable. we have video of ambulances. so when you look at this r, a rd like this, david sweat was walking down, which i guess still astounds me, clint. >> well, i -- and i think what we have to realize, as you know, is his partner, matt, was shot and killed two days ago.

here is sweat on the run two days. realize he has been out three weeks already and law enforcement has an idea where he is at. they are closing in. sweat is running through the woods it is raining. it's cold. he doesn't have the proper clothing. he was worn owl. the interesting thing is all he had to do was put his hands up and say i quit. >> what would have happened if he had done that? >> law enforcement would have said get down on the pavement, spread your hands and feet apart, one officer would have held a gun on him, a second or third or fourth officer, would have handcuffed him, searched him, would have been in custody and gone back again. everything said i'm on the run, going to keep running. the question is did he run because he was trying to escape

or did he run because he wanted to be shot, didn't go back alive? a question only he can answer. >> perhaps he was he will delusional and thought he could get away. i want to bring larry lawton back in. larry, are you surprised he was walking plain as day on that road? >> yes, i am, actually. he runs you the because he doesn't want to go back to prison. i'm going to go back and commit a crime. i think that happened with richard matt for sure. i don't know if that guy's personality was like that. he will be a -- a rock star. and i still don't believe he will rat i don't know how long

they can do that everything is going on the hard part of it. i'm glad he is caught and nobody got hurt during this whole entire ordeal. >> yes. chbltd >> and i just think this needs to be fixed. >> what do you think is going to happen? what do you think the take away is? >> well, you know, the take away is that the system has been broke for a long time. i think this opened a lot of the public's eye. i think the media coverage totally showed a lot of people how broke the system is. and they didn't even touch on the -- it's the tip of the iceberg of what just happened and it's in every facility. and i think, you know, they are going to get into, you know, whether it's the psychology and did you know, you know, if you want to know the suicide rate among guards very high a profession. >> why is that?

>> i think they are in an environment, a lot of people say a fine line between guard and inmate. saying i hate people, people are people and i think they get hardened to the system themselves. they see some very brutal people. and believe me, i always say that there's people in there i don't want living on the streets and they don't belong on the streets, but then there are people in there who do have redeeming factors and do need a second chance. and i think that's what this country is about. and so i think the big takeaway from here, it's going to open a lot of people's eyes because they just touched on the tip of the iceberg of what really goes on in prisons. you don't even know if these two men or this david sweat was abused by guards and he didn't want to go back. i'm not saying, we just don't know. people say we don't care, he was a murderer. well, you know, to be defined as

a really great country, it's how you treat your incarcerated, ho elderly. and i think in some of those we have issues. so i'm against a lot of going on online here now. >> obviously he's getting good treatment because at some point today he is going to be transferred to the albany medical center. obviously they're doing whatever they can to get him, you know, take care of him in light of the wounds that he sustained which we don't know how severe they are right now. what about the whole issue of psychological support for corrections officers? and even just vetting psychologically the people who work in prisons? because this tilly mitchell, to have a woman in there who was so vulnerable to relationships with these guys and so vulnerable to their manipulation just is mind blowing. >> you know, they totally need that. that's a great, great point. i don't know the vetting process to get in there and while they're in there, you know, how much they should be rotated. i know there is rotations.

let me tell you how they do it as for inmates and security. if you're in the hole in isolation, they actually transfer your cell every two weeks or every three weeks. so you're not in the same cell in isolation for years on end to bore a hole, to do anything. it's what they do. they actually take you out and they transfer all your bedding and everything in there into another cell down the hall. so they do a lot of things psychologically for an inmate, i think they should do that as well for guards. and i think it's -- you know, guards see people in prison, they understand -- i had guards save my life in prison. and you know, i'm indebted to them forever. i was in the hole, and one would open up the chute door and talk to me about, you know, about staying strong, about understanding he knows what's going on and how wrong the things that they were doing to me. and this is a guard. but he really saved my life. and i understand that there aren't such a fine line.

i had guards say to me, listen, keep fighting the system, larry. keep fighting the system, you know. it shouldn't be like it is. so they see the bad, but i used to get very frustrated at the system and say, well, why don't you go do something about you know what's going on? and it took me many years later to realize that that man was trying to support a family, to protect himself because there are animals in prison. and the first one to say there are animals in prison, and they need to be separated. so i think the system needs to be overhauled and needs to be overhauled with guys like myself who really know what's going on inside, not just from a law enforcement point of view. but from the point of view of being incarcerated. >> we also understand that right now a rally is gathering outside the prison to show support for law enforcement and to show all, of course, the local people's excitement and relief that david sweat has, in fact, been found and is in custody. the rally's going to be starting at 6:00 p.m. we also want to remind people that the governor will be

speaking at 6:45. i want to ask you, larry, about the whole rock-star status that obviously david sweat will have. and if he does rat out anybody, is there a chance that he will still be abused by guards wherever he goes, just because there is this sort of fraternity or camaraderie among corrections officers? >> absolutely. absolutely. i think the less he says, the better off he'll be to everybody. guards that, you know, he knows what went on, and they're going to figure out a lot of it anyway from what's gone with the girl and the other guard and the little things that do go on are going to be found out. and there's other people that are going to tell those as well. but what i wanted to also say, if you go to social media, there's actually groups now that were rooting for these guys, as sick as that is. so you're going to start seeing a momentum change for prison change and prison issues and why are people wanting to get out. how bad is our system and why are people who are good people,

because there are people in that prison in clinton that are in there that -- i'm not i saing they didn't do a bad crime, but maybe that not level of a murderer. these guys are really bad days. they needed to be taken down or captured. i don't believe in people ever saying notes kill them. that's not what our society should be doing to people, period. but what they do need, there is people -- there is going to be support for it, and i think there's going to be a big change. if you go on any website, there's a whole prison reform website of people who know what's going on in prison. >> right. as we are pulling back the curtain on this particular facility, it does seem like it's a completely self-contained world with very different rules than we would expect. i want to ask you what david sweat can expect when he goes to prison. >> well, i think first of all, he's going to lawyer up. i think he's not going to be allowed to debrief. and eventually, i think that his lawyers will broker a book and movie deal for him even though he cannot profit directly, that they will circumvent that money.

but i do see something like that happening. it's not common -- it's actually common in cases this large for inmates to produce a book and a movie through their attorneys. >> wow! a book and a movie. >> yep. >> and, of course, he cannot benefit from that in any way financially. >> not directly. >> so when you say not directly, you're intimmating that he will somehow get a benefit? >> absolutely. the attorneys have ways of circumventing that into trusts and, you know, money being delegated elsewhere. yeah. >> so i guess a big fear is that this guy may be turned into some kind of butch cassidy & the sun dass k sundance kid. >> folk hero. >> folk hero. >> we don't want to do anything like that. >> he did shoot a police officer. >> absolutely. >> so if he does go into solitary, which a lot of people are speculating he might, how long do they keep them in solitary? i mean, you can't keep someone

in solitary confinement indefinitely, can you? >> well, yes, you can. actually, he'll probably be in a high-powered medical facility for anywhere from six months to a year rehabilitating from his wounds. then he'll be, of course, moved into a maximum-security facility where he can be housed for as long as necessary. pelican bay, federal corrections facilities all over the country house these types of inmates for indefinite periods of time. >> okay, i want to read you something that's just coming over right now. reported to nbc news. according to multiple sources familiar with the investigation, a manhunt new york state police sergeant jay cook saw sweat coming out of the woods and walking down the road. the sources say sergeant cook thought sweat looked suspicious and told him to freeze. the sources say sweat then took off down the road and cook fired, hitting him at least once in the shoulder. sweat was handcuffed, taken into custody, placed on a gurney. he was wearing military style clothing. does any of this surprise you? >> no, it does not.

you know, again, they got what they could get where they got it. and they took what food, clothing, you know, whatever they could get their hands on, when you're on the run, you do what you've got to do. >> arthur roderick, i hope you're still with us. i want to bring you in to comment on this. >> i'm still here. >> that he had on military style clothing. what do you think about this last scenario for david sweat? >> well, i mean, again, i'm sure he got that out of the hunting cabins that he had broken into. i mean, the first one a couple weeks ago belonging to the guards, i'm sure they had hunting clothing in all those cabins up in that area since the majority of them were during hunting season. they stored, you know, clothing, weapons, food, everything in those cabins, so i am not surprised at all that he had that equipment on. i am kind of surprised, i mean, again, i think psychologically,

he was driven to the point where he saw a goal line, and he was just running for it, and i think that's exactly what happened is he came out of the woods, got on the road and just started walking down the road, hoping that nobody would see him and that law enforcement was concentrating their efforts back in the area where matt had been killed. granted, he was only six miles away from that particular area, but i'm not surprised he was out on the road or wearing any of that equipment. i'm kind of surprised he didn't have a weapon on him, to be honest with you. >> that is surprising. art, do you think -- what are the chances that he is going to help police in their investigation of how this all went down? >> you know, i've heard other speakers on talk about a rat is a rat but, i mean, if he can get some type of benefit, i mean, he's never going to be put back in general population again. but if he can cut some deal where he gets a little easier time somewhere, then i think that's what he's going to do. i mean, what is he -- he's got nothing to -- not much to gain,

but, i mean, i think the notoriety of this has reached the point nationally and internationally that people want to know what happened here. and if he's going to cut a book deal with some attorneys or a movie deal, you know, we've already heard there's possibly a tv show. >> right. >> a tv movie coming out about it. then what's he got to lose by not talking about it? >> exactly. i want to recap if people are just tuning in right now. the escaped prisoner david sweat was caught today in the town of constable where he was walking down a road. he is alive. he was shot in the shoulder. we believe he is in custody, and he's being transferred to the albany medical center. the governor will be speaking, governor cuomo, will be speaking at 6:45. and there's actually a rally that's going to begin right now outside of the corrections facility where he was. right now let's go to adam reese who's on the ground outside of the medical center. adam. >> reporter: just to recap, david sweat was shot just two miles south of the canadian