he finishes in the top five in new hampshire, he'll be very excited. >> the big question about chris christie is can he do flinty? that's the question. michael steele, i love that word. jess, and sam, thank you all. that is "all in" for this evening. raich al maddow show starts right now. >> the old man in the mountain fell down in new hampshire. there's a job opening there. i'm just saying. >> really? >> yeah, they had to -- they put him back together with aggregate and glue for a long time. now the old man in the mountain is kind of gone. very awkward. anyway, thank you. >> thanks to you at home for staying with us. happy monday. lots going on. you thought the supreme court made huge news on thursday? then even huger news on friday? well, they continued to make fairly huge news today. and then after they made their fairly huge news this morning, and everybody thought they were done for the day, they made even more huge news this afternoon. so there's a lot going on in the news today.

in states all over the country, in part, due to the role that the united states supreme court has been on over the past few days into this morning and this afternoon. we're going to get to all of that tonight. a big show tonight. but first things first. because i think we know each other well enough now that i can safely say that i know when you tune in to this show every night at 9:00 eastern, it is because you are reasonably expecting quite a lot of this. >> brazil. >> brazil and her friends recently brought a homeless man to spend an afternoon with them. they gave him new clothes and took him to eat in a restaurant and say the experience brought her great joy. presenting brazil.

>> they took him to eat in a restaurant. welcome to the "rachel maddow show" unofficial taxonomy for beauty pageants. for people who wouldn't otherwise know. let's get this straight right here. let's get this sorted, okay? what you're watching here now is ms. universe, the winner of last year's ms. universe was ms. colombia, the first runner up, the woman who will have to fulfill ms. colombia's duties if she's unable to do so, was ms. usa. now, the way you get to be ms. usa, the way you get to represent the united states of america in front of the whole entire universe, at the ms. universe pageant is that you have to win the miss usa beauty pageant contest thing itself. miss usa, this is important, miss usa is not the same thing as miss america. do not mistake one for the other.

i wins mistook miss usa for miss america or maybe it was vice versa, but boy, was i sorry. they're very different things. miss usa, miss america, totally different. for example, there is no talent competition in the miss usa pageant. there's no baton twirling, no flute playing, no puppet that dances in clogs. that's the kind of thing you see at miss america. no talent competition in miss usa. >> to be miss usa, to try and win the chance to be miss universe you don't get to show any particular talent or skill. you just have to compete in evening gowns, there is a swimsuit competition, but there is also an interview. and sometimes the interview is hard. >> in recent weeks, the u.s. has released five detainees from guantanamo in exchange for one u.s. soldier held captive in afghanistan. the u.s. policy is to leave no soldier behind. do you think it's fair to sacrifice or swap lives in order to uphold this policy? >> i am glad that we got our guy back.

however, i do not feel it was right that we subject ourself to these acts of terrorism. i do agree with our guy being back, but however, i do not think we should subject ourselves. thank you. >> nailed it. so that's miss usa. miss usa is part of the miss universe organization. it also includes something called miss teen usa. to compete in miss teen usa, you have to be between 14 years owed and 18 years old and good at saving all your after school ice cream scooping money to spend on those evening gowns. those evening gowns are not cheap. take it from me. so that's the umbrella of miss universe pageants. miss teen usa, miss usa, miss universe, to the to be confused with miss america. >> the very first ms. universe was from finland, pageant as you can tell, has been around for a long time, since 1952. it's only in the last couple decades, since 1996, that that

family of beauty pageants, teen usa, usa, and universe, only since 1996, that those pageants have been partially owned by this man. real estate developer donald trump. he bought a stake in that family of beauty pageants, the miss universe family of beauty pageants in 1996. and since that year, being in the beauty pageant business has been one very visible part of donald trump's public profile. mr. trump has a lot of different businesses, sure, but one of the things he does is he co-owns these beauty pageants. i was not always clear on that fact. now i know, and now you know. and this is another thing that he does. this is a reality tv show called "the apprentice." you have probably heard of it. i didn't really understand the premise, but the premise is that donald trump asks people to demonstrate their business skills by doing businessy type activities quickly and under duress.

quick, market this product. and then he fires people at the end of each episode. the "apprentice" has been on television for more than a decade. there's also a version of "the apprentice" in which the contestants are now the regular people, they are celebrities. the celebrity version of the apprentice goes like this. >> i'm not sitting here screaming and ranting and raving. that's not my style. i'll have a conversation with him later, should i survive. >> later, should you survive. that's right. should you survive? should you survive? >> should i survive. >> you think he should? >> i absolutely do. >> do you think he should survive? >> yes. >> you do? then, you're fired. >> oh, kevin. so that's the celebrity one. it's basically the apprentice except the people who are competing are people you might have seen on tv before. including a guy who looks a lot like geraldo rivera, but i'm

quite sure that can't be him. in the celebrity version instead of competing for a job with donald trump, the celebrity people compete for donations to charity. now you know. a simple taxonomy of the way this person exists in public life. for the last couple decades, donald trump has been known as a businessman, as a perennial maybe politician, but he's also been an owner of and a star in these tv events and these tv shows. all of which aired on a tv network called nbc. nbc aired every one of donald trump's tv properties. until today. today, nbcuniversal, and i should said we here at msnbc are the part of nbcuniversal. they cut all tied with donald trump. so nbc will no longer air miss universe or miss usa, donald trump will no longer participate in the "apprentice" or the

"celebrity apprentice." this is the statement from nbc today. quote, at nbc, respect and dignity for all people are cornerstones of our values. due to the recent derogatory statements by mr. trump, regarding an immigrants nbcuniversal is ending its business relationship with mr. trump. now, the derogatory statements nbc is taking issue with, those were apparently the statements he made when he announced his presidential run. >> when mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. they're sending people that have lots of problems. and they're bringing those problems with us. they're bringing drugs. they're bringing crime. they're rapists, and some, i assume, are good people. >> the spanish language network univision was first to say that they would no longer be airing mr. trump's beauty pageants after he made those remarks in his presidential announcement. today, nbcuniversal followed suit. mr. trump reacted to the univision news by blaming the

mexican government. and also by vaguely threatening to sue univision. he reacted to the nbc statement like this. quote, as of today, donald j. trump is no longer affiliated with nbc. mr. trump stands by his statements on illegal immigration, which are accurate. nbc is weak. i continue. and like everybody else, is trying to be politically correct. that's why our country is in serious trouble. in the most recent national fox news poll of republican presidential contenders, former florida governor jeb bush comes in first place. the person who comes in second place is -- ding, ding, ding, donald trump. the mexico sends its rapists to the united states guy. second place in national polling right now. which means not only that donald trump's comments got all of his tv shows booted off the air, they also at the same time gave him a huge bump among republican primary voters in terms of who they might want to be president. but in very specific terms, that

polling also means if things keep going the way they're going with donald trump polling at the top tier of republican presidential candidates, he is definitely going to earn a spot at least on the first debate stage for the first republican presidential debate in august. that first debate will be moderated by fox news. fox news has set the criteria for the debate. they say only the top ten candidates in an average of five national polls leading up to that debate will be allowed on the stage. if they keep going the way they have been going, he's going to be taking up a precious podium on the debate stage. it's a zero sum game. it's a zero sum game. they're only going to take the top ten. if he's there, his presence will mean that somebody else will not be on the stage who otherwise would have made it. donald trump may be there on stage in cleveland, ohio, for that first republican presidential debate, trying to earn the republican nomination for president. he at this point will likely be there, but this guy will not. this guy is the governor of ohio.

john kasich, sitting governor of the all important swing state of ohio. he's served in the ohio state legislature, in congress, now the governor of the state, but judging by the poll numbers there's no way he'll make it on the stage for that first debate even though it's in his home state. donald trump has a great chance. the governor of ohio, in part because of donald trump, not so great a chance. john kasich is set to announce his presidential run toward the end of july. we learned today he's due to announce on july 21st. and that timing may be a good strategic choice for john kasich. at least it seems like he's trying to give himself the best possible chance of getting into that debate. if people are getting a bump in the polls after their announcement. if you're trying to get a bump in the polls between the day of your announcement and the days preceding the debate, maybe it's his best shot. fox news has set their criteria in a way that could get donald trump into the debate easy but

not the sitting governor of the state where that are debate will be held. declaring on july 21st, maybe he'll get enough of a bounce that it will start appearing for him in national polls. maybe. it's his best chance. but probably also his only chance. things have to go great for john kasich. so this is what the republican field looks like right now. john kasich will announce july 21st. and of course, tomorrow, we've got a big announcement from a really interesting candidate this year, this was a video that new jersey governor chris christie put out today on the eve of his announcement tomorrow that he will seek the republican nomination for president. and honestly, you can tell it's nicely shot. even just from the snippet, a good video, well edited, well put together. about his mom, talking about what his mother told him on her deathbed. it's nice. it seems like the whole chris christie campaign, the christie for president motto, for example, telling it like it is, is all going to be about this feeling of chris christie's

bluntness, his honestity. he tells it like it is. he's a straight talker. and that sort of is chris christie's strength, his political brand. he's great in front of a crowd, he can be charming. he could turn his blunt political style into a strength. he can use it to set himself apart from the other more diplomat crick politicians and make other politicians' diplomatic manner work against them. it works for him. that's why the debate issue for chris christie is maybe even more a matter of political survival than it is for any other candidate. he has to get into the first debate because that's the one place he really might be able to shine. that's his whole presidential sales pitch. he tells it like it is. he's a good talker. he's real, not like the other guys. you see him against the other plastic politicians, and you'll like him the best. right now, chris christie is doing terribly in the national polls. he comes in ninth or tenth place. sort of in john kasich territory. if you look at his home state polls, the approval ratings in new jersey, the national polls look rosy by comparison.

chris christie's polling right now by his own constituents is terrible and it keeps getting worse. the most recent poll, this is an all-time low for him in terms of disapproval ratings in new jersey. the largest proportion of responders to that recent poll said they disliked everything about chris christie. they could choose him or his policies, but they chose to say they disliked everything about him. now, today on the eve of his presidential announcement, the largest newspaper in new jersey has published an editorial the likes of which i am not sure i have ever seen before. look at this. this from the star ledger, it's called after 14 years of watching chris christie, a warning. he lies. quote, most americans don't know chris christie like i do, so it's only natural to wonder what testimony i might offer after covering his every move for the last 14 years. is it his raw political talent? no, they can see that. is it his miserable failure to

fix the economy, solve the budget crisis or repair krupp bling bridges? to his opponents will cover that if he ever gets traction. my testimony amounts to a warning. don't believe -- don't believe a word the man says. don't misunderstand me. they all lie, and i get that, but chris christie does it with such audacity and such frequency that he stands out. when he picks up the microphone he speaks so clearly and forcefully, that you assume genuine conviction is behind it. be careful though. it's a kind of spell. a remarkable talent with a silver tongue, but if you look closely, you can see it's forked like a serp pent's says the largest paper in his state. chris christie is going to formally join the race for president tomorrow. something tells me the papers in his home state are just getting started on that idea.

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mornings. wonderful, crazy mornings. we figure you probably don't have time to wait on hold. that's why at xfinity we're hard at work building new apps like this one that lets you choose a time for us to call you. so instead of waiting on hold, we'll call you when things are just as wonderful... [phone rings] but a little less crazy. we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. question. has your name ever appeared right in the middle of a supreme court opinion? have you ever been cited by name by the united states supreme court?

if you answered yes to that question, then you might be my next guest. the great dahlia joins me next. her name appeared today in one of the most hotly anticipated supreme court decisions of this session. dal la by name right there, right in the middle of it. she's here next. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one.

i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? one thing to keep in mind about the next election is that unless it is a huge democratic wave year, which is possible but really hard to do, unless it's a huge democratic wave, this guy is still going to be speaker of the house after the next election. it's almost a foregone conclusion no matter what else happens in the next election,

republicans are going to keep control of the house and john boehner is going to stay the speaker. that's because the game is rigged in their favor. and it's not a conspiracy, not a secret. it's the way we do things. the constitution says we have to do a census of the country where everybody gets counted. that's done once every ten years. the last census year in 2010, republicans had a great year that year. they won seats in the house, in the senate, they won governorships, control in a bunch of state legislatures and that ended up being crucial because they used republican control in the states to draw new lines after the census for congressional districts. they drew new congressional district maps that guaranteed that more republicans would win seats in congress from those states. and if you do that and enough states in this country, it becomes almost structurally impossible for republicans to lose control of congress. in 2012, more votes were cast for democrats than republicans.

more people went to the polling place on election day in 2012 and voted for a democrat to be their member of congress. but it didn't matter. the republicans still got a big majority in the house because the congressional districts were drawn in such a way to guarantee that republicans win no matter how the voting goes. and even when democrats overall get more votes, republicans overall get more seats. well today, at the united states supreme court, the justices of the supreme court ruled 5-4 in favor of a less totally biased way of electing our congress. in arizona and in california and a few other states, they don't draw the congressional districts by the usual totally partisan process that's designed to help one party and hurt the other. in a few states, including arizona, which was the case today, they have a bipartisan, balanced expert commission that draws the districts instead of letting the politicians do it. it's a way that's supposed to be fair to everyone instead of just picking one party to win.

republicans in arizona sued because they wanted the process to be more partisan. they're in control of state government, they wanted to draw the congressional maps themselves to help republicans more. but the supreme court today upheld the districts being drawn instead in this bipartsan expert good government technocratic way instead. that immediately effects arizona, but it's also a signal to good government types and reformers all around the country that you can do your congressional districts in a better way. you can stop rigging the game, if you want to. no pressure. just in case the supreme court wasn't making enough news already, these past few days, today they did hand down that ruling on congressional districts being decided in a technocratic nonpartisan way and that being an okay thing to do. they also blocked the epa from regulating emissions from power plants. they blocked texas from implementing its new antiabortion law, which was supposed to go into effect the

day after tomorrow, and that would have probably closed almost every abortion clinic in the state of texas, and they also today announced they're taking up a hugely controversial affirmative action case also from texas, a case that will be a national flash point for the court and the country over the next supreme court term. and, and, and, and today on the last day of their term, they also did something that i think has never been done before. at least not in modern times. you know pete williams, the nbc justice correspondent. when it comes to the courts and the law, pete williams, frankly, has seen everything. and he is legendary for being completely unflappable. everybody else will have their hair on fire about something, and pete williams is like, eh, don't you remember this also happened in alabama in 1947? exclamation points turn themselves into semicolons and periods when they see pete williams coming. he's the calmest man on earth, mr. nonplussed.

but today, from the court, he filed this. a very unusual display of passion today in the courtroom. i can't remember the last type this happened and neither can anyone else around here. i mean, coming from anyone, that would be intriguing. coming from pete williams, that's like a flash bang grenade. he never says anything is a big deal. but what happened at the court today was kind of a big deal. at least it was strange. and it happened in the big death penalty case. this was the case about the specific lethal injection drug that was used in three different screwed up executions in three different states last year. in january last year, it was ohio. where a man was struggling and gasping and choking and heaving for more than 20 minutes. then three months later in april, it was in oklahoma. that's where it took more than 40 minutes, and again the guy was writhing and gasping and speaking when he was supposed to be unconscious. that's the one where they called off the execution in the middle and tried to stop killing him because something was going wrong. then three months after that in july, it was in arizona.

that's where it took them more than two hours to kill the guy. witnesses say they saw the man gasp and choke more than 600 times. in all of those cases, the same thing happened. the person they were killing was initially knocked out, at least it seems they were knocked out. but then the person did not stay unconscious. the guy came back and appeared to be writhing in pain and conscious of what was happening to him. all three of those screwed up executions last year all used this drug as the drug that was supposed to make the guy unconscious. now, this drug is not an anesthetic. it's supposed to relax you, calm you down, in the same class as valium or xanax. the case the supreme court ruled on today on the last day of its session, the case they ruled on today is whether or not it's constitutional to carry out a lethal injection execution

specifically using that drug. and the five conservative justices on the court ruled that it is constitutional. it's okay. justice alito writing for the majority argued it is constitutional to use that drug to kill people in part because the prisoners who brought this lawsuit didn't suggest any better idea. got to do it somehow. from the ruling, quote, because it is settled that capital punishment is constitutional, it necessarily follows there must be a constitutional means of carrying it out. that was the majority opinion. that was the ruling. justice sonia sotomayor did not join that opinion. she was having none of that. she argued in dissent, quote, if the death penalty is constitutional the court reasons there must be a means of accomplishing it it and some available method of execution must be constitutional but a method of execution that is bar

barrous or involving torture or a lingering death does not become less so if all means of conducting an execution are cruel, then conducting that execution will constitute cruel and unusual punishment. under the court's new rule it would not matter whether the state used midazolam or instead had them drawn and quarted oratoror tortured to death or actually burned at the stake. so, in the court today, in the actual physical supreme court in front of everybody, justice alito read the majority opinion for the court. and then justice sotomayor, after him, she read her dissent, the blistering dissent, they only really read aloud from the bench when they're fired up about it. but then after justice sotomayor read her burning at the stake dissent, then it do the even more dramatic because after she read her dissent, then justice stephen breyer said he wanted to read his dissent, too.

he said he believes the whole death penalty no matter how you do it is probably unconstitutional. over 40 pages in this elaborate and forceful dissent has charts and maps and everything. justice breyer lace out a case by case that quote the death penalty in and of itself now likely constitutes a legally prohibiting cruel and unusual punishment. so, justice alito reads the opinion. then drama, justice sotomayor reads her dissent out loud, and then even more drama, justice breyre reads his dissent out loud too and says the whole death penalty is unconstitutional you guys and not just more drama, but unprecedented drama because after the opinion and the dissent gets read out loud and then the other dissent gets read out loud, but wait, there's more. justice scalia said he would like to read something out loud, too. four justices going at each other out loud from the bench.

justice scalia read a concurrence, but it was basically just a rebuttal to justice breyer who said the whole death penalty was unconstitutional and has to go. and that drama, the four justices all addressing each other from the bench, that is what pete williams today called a very unusual display of passion. something no one could remember seeing at the court. the inimitable and efficient dahlia lithwick was there at the court today when all this happened. even before justice scalia started talking, dahlia's take was whatever was happening at the court, i'm going to quote her, was notable and really weird. then, once justice scalia popped up to be the fourth justice to speak out loud on the case, she bottom lined the whole thing, she said, quote, this was very odd. you see she italicized the word very. emphasis on the word very.

this was a weird day at the supreme court and i'm not sure i totally understand it. luckily joining us now is dahlia lithwick. senior editor legal correspondence. dahlia is cited by name, by justice breyer on page 21 of his dissent. congratulations. thank you for being here. >> thank you, rachel. >> is that like another day at the office for you? i'm cited in this supreme court opinion? that's no big deal. >> that's a pretty big deal. i have to say, being cited for writing one of thousands of articles that nobody reads about how much the death penalty sucks in a dissent that says, nobody is going to read this because we lost, the death penalty sucks, i'll take it. >> i read all of your articles and blog posts about how the death penalty sucks. you went out of your way to say this was a weird moment in the court, kind of a weird day in the court, the way the rulings came down, then you said this was very odd what justice scalia did today, specifically. what was so odd about what he did? >> i think he invented a new form today, rachel.

usually, when they read, as you said, almost nobody ever reads from their dissent aloud. usually, you afford the courtesy to whoever wrote the majority opinion, you move on. more and more we're hearing people read from dissents, and chief justice roberts for the first time last week read one and surprised everybody. now we're getting one dissenter reading and then another one, and then scalia doing some sort of spoken word dissent. it's not clear he was reading from a summary. i kept sort of peering at him to see if he was reading. it didn't track what he wrote, which was, as you said, just an all-out saw the on justice breyer, but he was kind of randomly bringing in the marriage cases and there the court usurped state prerogatives. it was strange, as though he was just, here's some stuff that makes me grumpy. and he was saying it. >> to be clear, though, you're saying he didn't read something. he just kind of gave an off the cuff speech about what he didn't like? >> well, it's really hard to

say. usually, when a justice does a summary opinion, they hand it to the press office and they hand those out so we can see the discrepancies between what was said in the summary and what's in the opinion. we didn't get one today. so was he actually reading? was he glancing down? i can't say. what i can say is it doesn't read like his dissent, like his concurrence reads. it's quite a different style. and he was very mad about marriage. >> on this substance of the death penalty ruling today, as i understand it, had this gone the other way, this could have very much changed the implementation of the death penalty in this country. this basically leaves the death penalty intact as it is logistically there's still a lot of questions as to whether or not it can be continued to be carried out the way it is because of access to drugs. do you think this actually made the death penalty legally stronger today, or did it sort of just leave it status quo? >> oh, i think it made it stronger. it said to the states, you know,

as long as your protocol doesn't offend some threshold which is not knowable anymore, then you're okay, and we're not going to micromanage you, and i also think that it's really interesting that only justices breyer and ginsburg signed off on that much narrower dissent saying it's always going to be unconstitutional because there's no way to make it fair. justices kagan and sotomayor certainly signaled they want to make it fair in oklahoma. they really don't like the drug. but they're willing to be open to finding a better protocol. so it seems as though the general force of the opinion is states can go ahead and experiment with their cocktails and you know, do your best, and as justice sotomayor said, the fact that the prisoner may in fact experience something that's akin to being burned at the stake which is how she described it well, that's not really in violation of the eighth amendment.

>> wow, stunning. dahlia, senior editor and legal correspondent for slate magazine, congratulations on the footnote. thanks for being here. >> thanks rachel. we have lots more ahead tonight, including the fascinating pushback against some of last week's huge supreme court decisions and lots of politics. stay with us. when you travel, we help you make all kinds of connections. connections you almost miss. and ones you never thought you'd make. we help connect where you are. to places you never thought you'd go. this, is why we travel. and why we continue to create new technology to connect you to the people and places that matter. ahhh. beautiful day in baltimore where most people probably know that geico could save them money on car insurance, right? you see the thing is geico well, could help them save on boat insurance too. hey! okay...i'm ready to come in now.

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if we used the five stages of grief to gauge how red state america feels today, after enduring a week of some of the biggest liberal victories in modern american history, it would appear that deep red

states are still toggling roughly between denial and anger. denial and anger, i would say bargaining, depression, acceptance are stages that appear to be still a ways off in the distance for some of the red states. the new reality that red states are trying or not to wake up to what they're trying to do to stave off reality as best they can, that fairly dramatic story is next. woah woah marge... you're not marge? i'm sorta marge. we both drive a stick, we both like saving money on car insurance and we both feel integrity such as, that of healthcare in the america of the us and therefore. yes. thank you.

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on friday, the united states supreme court cleared up what has been the chaotic and confusing and constantly shifting question of who in this country is allowed to get married and where. the highest court in the nation on friday said that gay marriage is legal in all 50 states. much simpler than it used to be. marriage equality, all 50 states, done. settled. we got that landmark clarifying ruling on friday, and we got to throw out all of our old maps showing all the places where your rights faded in and out as you crossed state lines. then this is the news in alabama today. alabama in legal knots over gay marriage. alabama chief justice roy moore first told local justices in

alabama that they could not give licenses to same-sex couples to get married for the next 25 days. then he said, actually, they just didn't have to give people licenses for the next 25 days. to which one county judge responded, quote, i'm not real clear what this ruling is saying. it's very unclear. so you think this was simple, right, but in alabama, some counties have been going ahead and marrying people like the supreme court says they have to. other counties have decided not just can gay people not get married there, but if gay people can get married, then actually nobody will be allowed to get married there. at least two alabama counties are saying they're out of the marriage business all together. they're not doing marriage licenses for straight people or gay people, they're so upset by the gay people developments. other counties say they haven't made up their minds yet. they're waiting for judge roy moore's special madeup 25-day waiting period to be over and then who knows what will happen.

alabama is not the only state where stuff like this is happening. in texas, the dallas morning news is trying to pin down every single county. there's hundreds of counties in texas. dallas news trying to pin them down updating this map as they go as they figure out what rights are being applied in which counties. several of the states most populous counties are going ahead with marriages for same-sex couples but some counties aren't. that's texas, complicating matters further is that the state's attorney general is basically encouraging county officials that they ought to defy the supreme court ruling, then there's what's going on in mississippi. a lot of county clerks in mississippi are issuing licenses to same-sex couples, but the mississippi governor apparently still thinks there's some way to stop this thing or at least delay it. phil bryant of mississippi has written to the federal district court there asking the court to keep an old stay in place even though the supreme court has ruled and been very clear about the implications of their ruling.

you have sort of a stand-off between all of these mississippi couples who just good told by the supreme court that they have the constitutional right to get married and the governor of the state saying wait right there, indefinitely. but in mississippi, those couples who want to marry, they have on their side exactly who you would want on your side in a case like this. they have roberta kaplan, roberta kaplan is the lawyer who took edie windsor's case all the way to the supreme court two years ago. she argued the justices should overturn the federal defense of marriage act, and as you know, she won that case, and then right after winning that case, robby kaplan went to mississippi where she argued in federal court that mississippi's ban on same-sex marriage was unconstitutional. roberta kaplan, fresh off the supreme court made that case in mississippi, of all places, and she won. and now, with that landmark supreme court ruling on friday, roberta is right back in this fight to make that supreme court decision not just lasting and simple law, but present day

reality right now. even where opposition to equality has been tireless, entrenched, and fierce, and occasionally deliberately confusing. joining us now is roberta kaplan who successfully argued the case that struck down doma. it is nice to see you. thanks for being here. did i get that right about what's going on in mississippi? >> pretty much. >> in terms of the big picture here, i feel like we've got sort of dead enders. i feel like there's people who are slow walking the inevitable. >> they're mad about marriage, i think that's what you said in the last segment. some people mad about marriage. >> i don't feel like as a nonlawyer, i look at this and don't feel there's legal ambiguity. i think it's just people catching up. >> it's going to be clear. i don't think there's going to be much of a battle. even before there was a clear supreme court case, supreme court decision, in states where there were marriage, states like north carolina, et cetera, there's usually one county, two counties, a bunch more, and

then every county caught up. i think we're going to see the same thing in mississippi, louisiana, and hopefully even in alabama. >> if they dig in in a place like alabama, mississippi, or certain parts of the state, how does it get resolved? do these things have to go back all the way through the courts or does some federal judge somewhere just stop it? >> in the fifth circuit, i think they want to clarify things. the fifth circuit issued on its own orders in all three cases asking the parties to say to the court their position on whether, which the court concluded on whether the supreme court case was controlling. and they said they believe it was controlling, and given the fact it's controlling, the fifth circuit said, so what do you want us to do? what kind of order would you like us to issue? that letter went out today. the plaintiffs in texas and mississippi have submitted answers. we're waiting for the governor in mississippi to submit his answer, but i think the fifth circuit is ready to act. >> in terms of in the places where there is the most political resistance and the most political showboating around these things, what is the sort of horizon, the time

horizon in terms of how long it will take to resolve these cases, worst case scenario? >> that all dependents on the fifth circuit, but i think it's only a matter of days. i think weigh get a ruling tomorrow. i think it's only a matter of days. mississippi has 82 counties, a little less than texas, and a bunch of those are already married people. as we have seen over the last few years since windsor, once people are married, those are the facts on the ground. it's pretty hard to stop it. >> how do you feel overall? >> i have never felt better. pinching myself every five minutes. >> do you have -- how did edie react? >> she cried. i think that edie, even when we won windsor, she just turned 86, and i don't think she thought she would live to see this day. i think she thought it would happen but she might not be alive to see it. so the fact that she was alive to see it and so thrilled, she really wept. >> do you feel -- >> so did i, but i thought it would happen in my lifetime but i would be older than i am today. >> you were involved in some

difficult, strategic discussions and difficult strategic fights within the movement and different types of lawyers, people with different types of approaches. do you feel like everybody is vindicated because it came out the way everybody wanted it to come out in terms of how this was fought for? do you think there's a lesson to be learned in terms of what the next fights are or what we've just been through? >> the ultimate lesson that should be learned, and you had mary on, when you think you have a legal case to bring, and you have a constitutional right to be vindicated, you have to bring that case. you may not win all the time. mary didn't win in the beginning, we didn't win in new york, but ultimately, we won. you have to change not only minds but you have to change hearts. that's what he this movement did. >> you have to push even when it's not a consensus decision. >> absolutely. >> roberta kaplan, thank you for your time tonight. >> we have much more ahead. stay with us. if you're taking multiple medications does your mouth often feel dry? a dry mouth can be a side effect of many medications. but it can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath. that's why there's biotene

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ever since he launched what was supposed to be his long-shot presidential campaign, vermont senator bernie sanders has been drawing really, really big crowds. he's also polling several atmospheres above his expected trajectory. bernie sanders is giving hillary clinton something that looks a little bit of something that looks like a run for the democratic nomination. but it turns out in one key state, bernie sanders is the one thing you cannot be if you want to succeed there. bernie-mentum has hit a very interesting speed bump. that story is next. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on

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the big crowds that vermont senator bernie sanders has been turning out around the country. honestly, you're not going to believe me when i say this, but it's true. he has been turning out bigger crowds than any other presidential candidate. as much as the other candidates don't want to admit that he's turning out bigger crowds than anybody. and yes, senator sanders is so far behind hillary clinton in national polling that he cannot even be seen in her rearview mirror. but you know what as a campaigner, he's been getting a very big liberal response in a way that liberals and democrats probably ought to find heartening. he's been getting a very big liberal response. he's been getting a big fund-raising response, a big volunteer response, a big response in terms of enthusiasm. if you listen to reporters, they will tell you that the bernie sanders crowds are really legitimately fired up, compared to everybody else's crowds. and yes, i can feel your hate mail pouring in. yes, i know. hillary clinton is probably

going to win the democratic nomination for president but it is also true that bernie sanders has unexpectedly gone off like a rocket in the democratic primary. and the evidence of that is plain to see. here's one thing to watch, though, because senator bernie sanders may have a problem. specifically in one of the states where he is polling very well, and that is the state of new hampshire. in new hampshire, state law requires presidential candidates to fill out a form. it is a form that the candidate is supposed to use to affirm his or her party registration. on the form, the candidate has to affirm that he or she is a registered member of the party in which he or she is running for the presidential nomination. senator sanders obviously is running for the democratic nomination for president, but senator sanders technically speaking is not a democrat. he's an independent socialist, right? god bless you. and we know that senator sanders is running for the democratic nomination. we know he would surely be happy to call himself a democrat in order to get on the ballot in

new hampshire obviously. the problem is, it's not clear how can he do that, because bernie sanders is a registered voter in his home state of vermont. in vermont, you don't register by party. so, even if he wanted to switch his party affiliation to democrat in order to be able to verily affirm that he is a registered democrat there's no where and no way for him to do that. and that's a glitch, right? it's just a detail. but if, say, the republican majority on the new hampshire ballot law commission or somebody else at some point in the process tries to turn this into a thing, this might be a thing. bernie sanders, technically, can't run for the democratic nomination for president in new hampshire if they don't technically consider him to be a democrat.

if this does end up becoming a thing the feel the bern bernie-mentum is going to have something to go nuts about. >> do you know what donald trump is doing right now? >> no. >> at this moment he's in his pajamas retweeting compliments about himself. and tonight he is watching this show where four years ago he of course threatened to sue me. and normally what he does when he threatens to sue cable news hosts is not actively sue them but obsessively and hatefully watch their shows. so watch twitter. watch what happens now. >> hi, donald! >> it is good news and bad news