chris christie's campaign it is. yeah. yeah. this is in contrast to hillary's slogan, explaining why this is not what it looks like. >> that's funny. new york city. good morning, my friends. willie, you remember when we missed the -- >> let's start with the stones. 6:01. >> so, willie you remember back -- god, '84, '85 we missed a couple payments on neverland ranch? because we didn't get what we

needed. and so michael swooped in and took it over. heart broken. >> yeah. >> nobody remembers that. >> no. >> i took all the money from winning the masters. we had on black, roulette wheel. we hit it. we bought neverland ranch. it didn't turn out. >> you couldn't use your credit card at the airport. >> we just put in the roller coaster, too. >> i know you miss one payment. we're not alone. we're not alone this morning. greek default, not on something as precious as neverland ranch but just -- >> how long have you been cooking that one up this morning? >> you know me three seconds. i looked at it default neverland ranch came up boom the rest is history. let's go to news now. how are you doing? >> yeah. >> boy, it rained hard earlier this morning. >> yeah severe weather up here.

>> okay. >> moving right along. alex you can send bill karins. >> it's wet out there. >> michael steel is here. we have a map. >> yeah it's bad. >> did you get at larm on your phone? >> yes. >> so there's that. >> so you say these hillary clinton e-mails read like a scene out of a movie? >> some do. there are a couple that people focus on. this is the first batch. we're going to get them every month now. >> fun. >> this is the first batch from the earliest time in the state department. late last night the state department released 3,000 pages of e-mails from hillary clinton's personal account from 2009. many of them focus on every day events and scheduling issues. one of the key take aways though, sidney bloomenthal had a greater role than initially believed. they were in contact about a

host of issues months after clinton became secretary of state. the documents show clinton pushed for him to get a job at the state department. bloomenthl was an interimmediate airy in the northern ireland peace process and asked clinton to help tony blair get elected president of the eu. >> sidney bloomenthal is an interimmediate airy in northern ireland? mike? >> come on. >> whoa. >> i can't believe that. i think he was hounding her with e-mails. i mean just e-mail after e-mail taking out pieces from "the new york times" and putting them in -- >> that's what you hope. >> i sincerely hope that. >> holy cow. >> she wasn't saying stop e-mailing me. she was clearly accepting what he was writing. >> an intermediary in northern ireland? >> the state department didn't think that was a good idea. the e-mails were unsolicited.

one asked him asking you are still awake? i'll call if you are. jimmy carter, david powell, david axel rod androd corresponded with her. clinton also appears concerned about her access to president obama when considering a joint interview with henry kissinger. clinton writes "i see potus once a week while k saw nixon every day. of course if i was dealing with that potus, i would camp at his office to keep him from doing something problematic. do you see this as being a problem"? she talked about a commercial seesaw on the radio. >> just lawn maintenance repair guy. you're fine. >> secretary clinton kblanz about arriving at the white house for a meegt canceled at the last minute.

there is some funny e-mails as well including one xlafrpg with an aide where clinton appears to be unfamiliar with how to use a fax machine. she says i thought it was supposed to be off the hook to work. and then there is this mysterious e-mail between clinton about the hamptons where the entire text is redacted. it is mundane stuff for the most part. this is the first stretch of her job as secretary of state as we'll learn much more as we get further along. these will be released every month. >> let's bring in the reporter that first broke hillary clinton e-mail stories a few months ago, michael schmitt. what is your take on the latest batch to be released? >> as you were saying there's not a lot of exciting things in there. but what happened last night was actually interesting. the state department went back and said they classified about two dozen of her e-mails, portions of them saying that information in them was now classified. they said it wasn't classified at the time but it had to be re

redacted in the e-mails. she said there was no classified information on the e-mails. people in the state department thought it was hard to believe of all the 55,000 pages she has that she didn't have anything sensitive. apparently it's sensitive enough now not to be disclosed. >> that's fascinating. and so we're going to get these once a month? is that correct? how did that ruling go down? and why did the judge want to let it out like this? >> i think the dribs and drabs comes from the state department which really strugled to produce these things in a timely matter. they have really been criticized about that. kerry was frustrated with the way thinks underlings handled this because it brought criticism on the state department and allowed the republicans on capitol hill to say they're not producing stuff in a timely manner. and it's really -- kerry is

afraid it is hurting the state department. something related to hillary clinton, his predecessor, is now hurting him. >> thank you so much michael schmitt. we appreciate it. the concerns we have about this e-mail situation, we've had some. i think they're going to be taken care of. they would point somebody with a spectacular record. >> it's funny you should bring that up. there is some concerns now that a top government lawyer in charge of document production during the irs scandal is now in a similar role for the release of the e-mails from hillary clinton. katherine duval is responsible for turning the e-mails over to congress. she told house investigators last year she was not aware that backup tapes of lois learner's lost e-mails existed at the irs. the tapes were recently found to have been destroyed. >> wait. wait. wait. wait. michael, so the lady that handled lois learner's situation when she destroyed -- >> right. >> -- i guess a server or backup

e-mail is now in charge of this? >> yes. consistency. that's what it's all about. we want to be consistency in our and built to get ability to get it right. >> even if there is a nonstory there, you create a story by the way you handle it the way you roll it out and have people deal with it. if you got a person who is already got an issue with congress and got an issue with how she's handled documents, why put her in charge of something that you know is so politically explosive as this? >> i don't know that's beyond crazy. that doesn't seem to make sense. >> what doesn't make sense is you have somebody so well poised to enter the market in the field and how she didn't anticipate that her e-mails would become the topic of conversation like this is beyond me. and so amateur hour especially for the clintons. >> it really is. >> all right. let's move on to some politics here in new york. a major battle is brewing between two top democrats in the state. the front page of "the new york

post," "raging bill." bill diblasio launching a strong attack against andrew cuomo. just hours before going on vacation, mayor diblasio accused cuomo of lacking leadership and being focused on transactional politics instead of the best interest of the city. the mayor also said he hoped for a strong partnership with the governor but said "i've been disappointed at every turn." >> i certainly don't believe the assembly had a real working partner in the governor or the senate in terms of getting things done for the people of this city or state. what i believe happened is the governor worked with the senate in some cases to inhibit the work of the assembly to inhibit at agendaa that new york city put forward. but what i found was he engaged in his own sense of strategies his own political ideas and what we've often seen is if someone disagrees with him openly some kind of revenge or vendetta follows. i think too many people in this state have gotten used to that

pattern but i think more of us are saying we're not going to be parties to that anymore. >> a spokesman for governor cuomo responded to that interview with a brief statement. "for those new to the process, it takes coalition building and compromise to get things done in government. we wish the mayor well on his vacation." wow! great relationship between the two of these guys. but they sort of kept it suppressed publicly. it's come out in dribs and drabs. this is just an open broadside by the mayor on his way out on vacation. >> i think the governor holds all the cards. the mayor's going to need to go to the governor to get certain things done for the city and this is not a good way to get those things done. irrespective how you feel about the governor or what his response has been to things in the past you've got to find that space to work with him. he has the, you know all the cards when it comes to the legislature and the agenda for the city. >> what's diblasio doing?

>> you know i don't really know. but certainly is not helpful to new york city that mayor of the city refers to the governor as someone seeking revenge upon him and the city and saying he has actively planned against the city. is bill diblasio setting up a series of straw dog that's everyone is against him and he's the only one fighting for the people? that seemingly -- he's been doing that in a sense with the police department for a while. he is waging against andrew cuomo. it is not going to work for bill diblasio and new york. >> i see the sympathy card working for him particularly when doesn't have many allies in the city or state. >> there's no up side for him. he needs to dial it back vein. >> why do you go after the guy that really controls what you're able to do in the city?

>> i have no idea. i have no idea. >> i rarely see that. i mean during our administration in maryland, you know, there were mayors that weren't happy and executives wrnts happen weren't happy with what we were doing. you never went to "the washington post" or major newspapers or did a tv interview in which you call the governor out. at the end of the day, he's like you know that line item i see a zero. i just don't see that. >> the big tipping point appears to be from reading it willie you might know more about this than i do not living here full time appears to be the city's control, mayor's control over the schools. >> the school system. yes thashgsz a big one. >> he wanted the schools under his control. and andrew cuomo, governor cuomo went along with a year's extension of having the state assume control. >> and, right. mayor diblasio wanted governor quote yoe to turn over control of the mayor, to control the schools. he's been frustrated by. that he's been frustrated on questions of housing as well. he also set up in thant view

more conflict. he said i fully expect now because i've done this interview which i volunteered to do more acts of revenge from governor cuomo because of what i'm saying here. so he's almost -- it's not like he's looking for a solution there. it's almost like he's setting himself up that he wants the conflict. he wants the push and pull with the governor. strange move. >> it will be great to hear from bloomberg watching this from afar, right? >> there is another person who bill diblasio alienated. >> well from the get go on the inaugs inauguration day. that was ugly. >> i don't think mayor bloomberg is too worried about that. >> i don't think. so it is interesting. on the education front, obviously bill diblasio wants to give the unions teachers unions the keys to the door of all the schools. he's been very clear about that. and just let them completely run it. i would say run it into the ground. whereas, you've had cuomo who we've shown pictures of him in rallies talking about the need for charter schools.

>> choice. >> yeah choice for poor parents to have choice. so it's a battle. but you don't win the battles by doing what he did. i wonder if it's just in experience or arrogance or what it is. i don't know. >> as michael can tell you, you need the state if you're a mayor. >> you do. >> you need the governor's help. you can't do these things on your own. >> it's strange. bottom line. you know, whether it's new york city and albany or annapolis and baltimore, you know you need to have that relationship intact. if you don't the city ultimately suffers. >> let's talk about president obama. there's been a lot of talk last week was perhaps his best week as president. two supreme court rulings going his way, a victory on trade, and his stirring eulogy for reverend clemente pinckney in charleston south carolina. here is his answer when asked if it was the best week ever. >> in terms of my best week my

best week i will tell you, is marrying michelle. that was a really good week. malia and sasha being born excellent weeks. there's a game write scored 27 points. that was a pretty good week. i've had some good weeks in my life. i will tell you. and i'm blessed to have had those. i think last week was gratifying. in many ways last week was simply a culmination of a lot of work that we've been doing since i came into office. how am i going to spend whatever political capital that i built up, you know the list is long. my instructions to my team and my instructions to myself have always been that we're going to squeeze every last ounce of progress that we can make when i have the privilege -- as long as

i have the privilege of holding this office. >> a long way of saying yes. >> yeah it was. >> and i think it was. don't you think? right up there. >> yeah. there's no doubt about it. the supreme court helped him out a great deal. >> yeah. >> certainly did. a lot of events just came together at the same time. and hit one after another. but you look at what happened in the 24 hour time period mike and the supreme court on gay marriage on obamacare, the funeral the next day, the stirring scene that we saw down there. it was an extraordinary 24 hours that i -- geez i don't know when that will be repeated again. >> truly significant week for the president. a truly significant week for the country, i think, as well. with the two supreme court decisions as well as the president reclaiming himself, really in, front of the country from the pulpit from the stage

of that church. singing, obviously, was the icing on the cake. but the message he was delivering was so much from within him more than we've ever seen i think since he became president. >> light. don't forget the life line he got from ttp. two weeks ago it was almost dead on arrival. he got a big boost from that. >> he references political capital. you know the political capital that he's gained. i don't know what political capital he's gained from this great week beyond tpp. what is it? what is that nexus between him and the congress that's going to alou him to get the next big thing done? >> that is an interesting question that michael raised. i was told yesterday by a prominent democrat that one of the things they fear now is because of what happened last week because of such significance, the two court decisions and the president's address in that church where you were down in charleston south carolina that, resonated throughout the country.

that they're going to double up now on anything having to do with the iran negotiations the republicans. they're not going to give him another victory. >> well i don't know if you'd call it a victory giving away the store to the iranians. >> we don't know what's in the deal. >> yeah. >> for one half of what's in the deal is what's been leaked, it's in the deal i would say voting it down would be a victory for america. you know john kerry. you know a lot of the players here. do you really think that we're going to fold as much as we're hearing we're going to fold on inspections and on some of these other issues? >> i don't. >> okay. >> i can relax then. have a nice weekend. >> yeah. all right. willie, everything is going to be okay. >> still ahead, breaking news out of greece. word of a possible deal in the country's bailout program. we'll go live to athens in just a moment.

also, presidential candidate george pataki will be here and former senator gary hart. >> all right. >> and then there's this -- >> smithers release the hounds. excellent. hi neighbor. >> wow. we'll play more of senator ted cruz audition for an opening at the simpsons courtesy of buzz feed. bill karins as a look at the forecast. hey, bill. >> storm coming in this morning. and they continue this morning up into areas of connecticut now, up to massachusetts and they're going to eventually roll through providence and through areas of eastern long island. let's go to the radar. you can see the line of storms. the brighter the colors heavier the rain. torrential rain for a 20-minute period as it moves through. it's about to move through the hartford area. we're watching a severe storm possible on eastern long island. we had a few areas of wind damage. down to the south around middleton, lightning and active

portion of that line is about to head on through. also today, severe weather is possible from missouri to tennessee. flash flooding is also possible in this area. they've had a lot of rain over this spring into the early summer season. and this morning we've another batch of very heavy rain heading to springfield. for the next 24 hours, notice the possibility of one to three inches widespread from missouri arkansas, kentucky and tennessee and that heat continues in the west. just another day in the oven for the northwest. 102 in boise today. that's the same temperatures they're getting down there in tucson and phoenix. and that heat is not going to go away any time soon. so we talk about new england with severe thunderstorms early this morning. but the afternoon hours will be a lot quieter and the sun will return for many of you. careful driving this morning up there, especially on 95 from connecticut all the way to boston. leaving you a shot of new york city. most of the heavy rain is over. we'll slowly clear it out as the day goes on. "morning joe" will be right back.

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huge financial crisis in greece.

yeah, they're in terrible trouble. greece announced they're going to default on their nearly $1.8 billion loan. yeah. who would have thought they invented the philosophy major would be broke? >> and we're following breaking news out of greece this morning. the government now says it's ready to concede ground in bailout talks with the euro zone creditors. joining us from athens cnbc chief international correspondent michelle caruso cabrera. what is the latest on this? >> the latest is that the greek government has sent a letter to creditors which makes a lot of concessions in the negotiations that have been on going for months now. what is unclear is whether those are enough concessions to get the creditors, the other european countries that lent them so much money, to actually come to the table again this week and sit down with them and try to hammer out a deal that will give them some money so they can pay back their loans to the imf, european central bank and also to keep paying their

bills. they may have decided to make these concessions, the greek government, because the banking system is shut down. as a result people are limited to withdrawing only 60 euros per day and pensioners many of whom who are very elderly and go to the bank once a month to get the money, if they're supposed to get 1,000 euros a month, today they were told they can only get 120 euro this is week and come back next week and hopefully there will be cash there. its no the clear there will be cash there. the country is starting to run out of tens and 20s yesterday. they couldn't get 60 euros because they could only get 50 because they needed tens and 20s. we'll see what happens. there's a big meeting at the european central bank. and that will be crucial as well. >> michelle great to see you. how much of this last-minute decision was base on that referendum that they called for sunday where he assumed that the

majority of greeks would vote to leave the euro. now we're hearing that's not necessarily the case. >> yeah. i think that could be a lot of it. i think between the crisis within the banks and then the polling beginning to go against him. as you suggested, he in the middle of the night, friday night, the prime minister says we're going to have a referendum on the bailout. we think it is too harsh, too cruel. we want you to vote no a week from now on sunday. the initial polling and the weekend showed him winning. however, once the banks were shut down the polling started to move against him. he may have seen -- may have thought that wow, maybe i'm going to lose this thing on sunday. so that could be pressuring him as well. if he loses in theory he could lose his position as well as the prime minister though. greek politics are a little more complicated than that. but to simplify it. >> all right. thank you so much michelle. good luck out there. >> what do you think? >> i think they're going to back down. i think they were playing

chicken and i think -- >> no but i'm thinking about buying property over there. >> we can buy two or three islands for those shutout of nantucket and martha's vineyard. >> just look back to the olympics. did we not see this coming up until the very last day and stadiums still were not complete? >> i know. >> this is turning into a case study. the reality is we have never southeastern a western country of this size and magnitude go through something they're experiencing now and the citizens are finally getting a taste of what reality is going to be like for them. it's been very difficult on them as well for the past few years. >> you know the olympics are usually really good for cities and countries. boston wants to get in. i remember when a lot of people in spain were saying that the barcelona olympics were going to turn things around for spain. it d look at them. >> what is the -- >> by the way, we can buy half of spain right now. >> what's the feeling on the street? >> do we have a seven second

delay still? >> the initial committee bid for the olympics that bid for boston to become the olympic city in america got off to the wrong start by announcing they wouldn't cost the olympic bid wouldn't cost the taxpayers anything. not to say that there's a strong strain of cynicism in boston and massachusetts, but a lot of people just didn't believe that. so they've been playing catchup ever since. the feeling is still against having the olympics there. we'll see. >> so while we're staying with "boston globe," what a great shot here. >> fabulous. >> what a great shot. what a great match. and beating the germans, we got a great team there. i hope the men catch up with the women sometime soon international level of soccer. but so who do we play the finals? >> it will be england or japan. i think japan is the favorite

there. a lot of people here and in the uk are kind of excited about that matchup fit happens. carli lloyd scored a goal had an assist. germany is the number one team in the world. they were favored last night. the u.s. women's national team looked incredible. here's a penalty kick earlier by carli lloyd and then they sealed it in the game. this is a really good team. >> it really is. i've been watching with my 11-year-old girl kate and it's just exciting. i miss the -- was it '99 when we won the world cup? i missed everything except when they took off the shirts at the end. these women are really inspirational. >> what a great week for angela merkel. >> thank you for broadening it out there. >> bring greece back into the equation. >> all right. >> final by the way is on sunday. so u.s. against either japan or england. >> it's going to be exciting. >> all right. what do we have next? >> new jersey governor chris christie officially running for

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back in 2012 a lot of your fellow republicans really urged you to run and you declined. some of those republicans look and go that was his moment.

do you worry that you can't capture that genie and put him back in a bottle? >> no. the most important thing, in 2011 and '12, i was not ready tore president. you don't run just because you think you can win. you have to think that you can win and you're ready to do the job. i wasn't ready, matt. >> that is chris christie talking yesterday with matt lauer after officially launching his presidential campaign. governor christie then went on to new hampshire for the first of nearly a dozen events this week where he talked about entitlement reform. joining us for the must-read op-eds howard dean. good to see you this morning. >> howard always great to you have on. let's read "the wall street journal's" editorial and get your response about his entrance into the race. the journal writes "the 2016 republican presidential field is as strongest in memory. illustrations of the candidates whose names could have been savior in 2012 now a long shot.

the new jersey governor says he wasn't ready to be president in 2012 which is admirable candor but the question is now if he missed his moment? the approval rating is down to 30% in the garden state. he is also in low digits in the national polls and other donors have fled to other candidates. yet, he's not letting that deter a nothing left to lose campaign as reformer who will tell voters unhappy truths. mr. christie isn't the favorite but he shouldn't be underestimated." howard, what do you think? >> i think that's probably right. i think he has a terrible uphill slide. i was doing work for my favorite democratic candidate yet. people think he can do well in new hampshire. he's not going to do well in iowa. if he does well in new hampshire in a field this big, i just don't think he can really jofr come the bridgegate and that kind of stuff. i think it will be a donor

problem for him. but he gets a clean slate as of today, or at least he's trying to get one. and so let's see what happens. >> you know it's something that you have some talking about the bridgegate problem. i still have most conservatives still not forgiving him for hugging barack obama right before the election last year. in the base with the people that are voting in primaries. sure, a lot of people still haven't forgotten that. >> you heard him lash out at president obama yesterday in a speech which i thought was a very good speech and impressive given he didn't have a teleprompter. what stumped me is the turn on the economy. he talked about what a terrible economy he inherited from his predecessor but having said that looked like new jersey's economy now, they've had credit downgrade after credit downgrade. the unemployment rate is still higher than the national average. and they have that huge pension problem. i don't know where he was going with. that it seems a lot of people in new jersey are more focused on the economy. >> yeah the economy.

he did inherit an absolutely terrible situation but it hasn't gotten real better. that will be a real challenge for him moving forward if he starts talking about the new jersey record. >> well it s you can surely expect those standing on the stage with him in a month's time in cleveland to bring that up. and to you know position themselves against his record. and the reality for christy is not only does he have the baggage of bridgegate he has the personal narrative as governor what he's done there. but then it's just all the steam that's been let out of the balloon. how does he recapture that with a suspect base that doesn't, like you said joe, forget what he did with obama. >> willie i think you do one town hall meeting at a time. we've seen chris christie in town hall meetings before. he is really good when he gets a microphone and in front of people. he is real. like i said yesterday, he's a one guy out there that's talking about how to save social security how to save medicare how to save medicaid how to pay

down the debt over the next 25 30 40 years. and nobody else is talking substance? i think there are a lot of people that hear the guys running around saying little to nothing about what they're going to do. if he's out being a truth teller and saying what nobody is saying on either side i can name a lot of people like me that would vote for him. >> i think he's counting on that. that honesty and that town hall strategy in new hampshire. you look at the poll numbers. i don't want to say he conceded iowa but he is looking at new hampshire. it is remarkable. he is a long shot candidate right now. but you look where he was even a couple years ago. he won re-election with 60% of vote in new jersey in a blue state and approval rating this weekend in a poll is 30%. so there's been a big slide. not just in last four years but in the last couple years really since bridgegate. >> a long drop howard dean obviously from re-election where he won hispanic voters.

where he won women voters by double digits. i wonder though you've been through this process before. sometimes if you're the candidate with nothing left to lose because nobody expects you to do well you're able to deliver some harsh troops that frontrunners may not be able to do. could his weakness end up being his strength? >> well i don't think so. let me tell you what -- i said this before. the joke is forget about it is not a good platform campaign strategy in the country. what is going to go over well in the northeast is this candor in your face stuff. that doesn't play in the south. it doesn't play in the midwest. people just aren't like that. they're more polite to be honest. so i just think the style is going to be tough. it would be tough for anybody coming from new york and new

jersey where it is rough and tumble, say it like it is. but this shut up and sit down stuff does not work in minnesota or iowa or mississippi. people just don't treat each other like that. i think that's going to be a problem. if it does take off in new hampshire, i think he's got a long road ahead him as the primary schedule goes south and to the midwest. >> let me ask you another question specifically about new hampshire and about the voters and, of course you can cross over in new hampshire. you can vote in the primary. for so governor christie is going to be terrific in these small town hall meetings and he's great at that. but the new hampshire voters are very sophisticated. and the bulk of voting or a large part of the voters are not compromised of people who work for fidelity or who have great jobs. a lot of them are factory workers and getting older with each passing year. and they are going to ask him about social security and

entitlement reform which will hurt them to some extent. how is that going to play? >> will is something else mike that we haven't talked b and that is we were on the show -- i don't know six or eight months ago and talking about chris christie. at that time hillary clinton was unchallenged in the democratic primary. the thought we all had is there were going to be a lot of democrats or independents that voted in the republican primary. now there's a fairly interesting primary going on the democratic side. i think a lot of people who would normally vote in the democratic party are now going to stay home and i mean stay home and in not in their house but stay on the democratic side which deprives christie who is more moderate than most of the republican field of the base that he has to have in order to do well in new hampshire. >> yeah. >> so i think he has a tough slog. but candor will help him in new hampshire. >> it's a complicated road for him. a lot of people in right now and it's a crowded field. you never know. governor dean thanks so much. coming

suspicion and the saudis. key american allies but there is a long history of secrecy, too. robert jordan joins us to talk about the future of one of the middle east's most controversial powers. and we'll get his take on all the developments on a very dplikt complicated region. that's next on "morning joe." ♪ same as it ever was ♪ thanks for calling angie's list. how may i help you? i heard i could call angie's list if i needed work done around my house at a fair price. you heard right, just tell us what you need done and we'll find a top rated provider to take care of it. so i could get a faulty light switch fixed? yup! or have a guy refinish my floors? absolutely! or send someone out to groom my pookie? pookie's what you call your? my dog. yes, we can do that. real help from real people. come see what the new angie's list can do for you. my school reunion's coming fast. could be bad. could be a blast.

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hi. need an appraisal? yeah. we do. vo: when selling your car, start with a written offer no strings attached. carmax. start here. there has been a lot of talk on the other side from the iranian negotiators about whether, in fact they can abide by some of the terms that came up. if they cannot that's going to be a problem. because i've said from the start i will walk away from the negotiations if in fact it's a bad deal. >> that's president obama at the white house yesterday warning iran he's willing to walk away

from what he considers a bad nuclear agreement. yesterday's deadline came and went. diplomats have extended it now to july 7th as officials discuss key sticking points including when sanctions will be removed. joining us now former u.s. ambassador to saudi arabia robert jordan. set author of the new book "desert diplomat: inside saudi arabia following 9/11." good to see you. this is a fascinating story. we'll get to it in a second. i want to ask you about this iran deal. how critical a moment is this for the united states and middle east? >> pivotal but it's not necessarily the fourth quarter. we can extend the discussions further if we don't have the deal that we're willing to take. we don't have to say yes or no right now. we can go ahead and continue if we don't have the right makings of the deal. i'm very skeptical that we're going to be able to put something together. >> will the saudis ever support a deal? >> they've been polite let's put it that way, about the current negotiations. they're unlikely to support a

deal fit doesn't have very intrusive inspections, very serious enforcement mechanism and the way to snap the sanctions back which seem impossible at this point. >> there have been times where we have to stop and ask and i'm sure i asked several times on the "scarborough country," you mentioned my old show as listed in your book that always scares the hell out of me. those were crazy years. you don't remember what was going on back then. the question asked time and again is the saudis. are they allies or enemies or something in between? and after 9/11 a lot of americans were looking at the hijackers and looking at all of the saudi money that was flowing into al qaeda and asking that question. >> i was asking that question when i arrived in october of 2001. >> what did you find? >> by and large they are a steadfast ally if a government standpoint. but they have a very insidious

and dangerous ideology that's projected really around the world right now. but i think we have to be concerned about. even up to today. >> and it's almost like a deal with the devil where they are funding schools across the globe that basically teach we're the great state. extremist ideology. why do they continue to promote that across the globe? >> that's a big question joe. and they have a deal with religious establishment in saudi arabia that gives thim legitimacy and cover in a sense with many of their own people. and i think this is something that they are going to have to get a better handle on. they made this deal after the iranian revolution and after the attack on the grand mosque in mecca in 1979. it has continued. they're trying to put the genie back in the bottle. >> i was going to x i heard some people say that they're trying to slowly but surely moderate those forces.

>> they're trying to do that. it's unclear what the new king's attitude is going to be. he has fired some of abdullah's people who were considered more moderate. i think we'll have to keep a close eye on that. >> if there is an accord with the iranians and sanctions are lifted, that will obviously reinvigorate an iranian economy and that will i would think, pose an even larger threat in that section of the world to saudi arabia specifically in that iran with its wealth and its newly -- with the new accord will be the superpower in that region. what does that do to saudi arabia and the irehierarchy? >> i deal with that in the book. i think the concern is not so much military as it is economic. iran once sanctions are lifted is going to be an economic power house. they have enormous human capital. they have great natural resources. and they have the will and the ability and the drive to compete

economically in a way that we don't see from the saudis. >> and you mentioned king we have seen him taken action in his own hands having military escalation and access against iran as well and a proxy there. what do you make of his relationship with president obama? obviously, there is a great snub a few months ago by not coming to washington. >> sure. i think it is a difficult relationship. president obama's frankly had a hard time making good personal relationship with manufacture the leaders around the world. i think he is another example of that. i think they're trying. they're edging their way around each other at the moment. trying to get acquainted. but i think it's going to take a while to develop a personable relationship. there is a lot of baggage this administration carries that infuriated the saudis. the mubarak episode, greek, red line episode, dealing with israelis. a lot of things have really upset the saudis about this

administration. >> ambassador, what is the bottom line in this relationship? why does the united states need to be so hand in hand with a country that is a horrific human rights record that produced 15 of the 19 hijackers, that as joe said creates space for terrorists around the world? why do we need this relationship? >> we have to have allies in the middle east. whether we like them personally or not. we have to have a base to project power. to project power in the middle east you have to supply saudi arabia. we have to have a connection somewhere. the saudis have enormous credibility with the sunni muslim world. they have a huge trade relationship with us. they're buying $60 billion worth of military equipment. and so we have the relationship that's i do think have to be nurtured. let's talk about oil for a second as well. even though america is becoming more independent in terms of our own oil production, the rest of the rorld is not. the rest of the world buys american goods and services. we have to be able to have an kple that

economy that is not bankrupted by a crazy oil spiral. >> and they're not cutting production any time soon. >> they're not. >> ambassador robert jordan a fascinating book especially considering you arrived there weeks after 9/11. the sbookbook is "desert diplomat: inside saudi arabia following 9/11." >> next presidential candidate and now simpson star ted cruz's audition for the legendary comedy series. you've got to see this. we'll be right back.

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texas senator and republican presidential candidate ted cruz huge fan of "the simple sons" and buzz feed got limb to offer up his best imitations of the characters. check it out. >> hi i'm ted with harry share retiring. i'm auditioning for any part i can get in the simpsons. smithers? release the hounds. excellent. >> hi neighbor. kang and kodos in a classic episode when they run for president, i'm running for president now. forward, not backwards. upwards, not down wards and always twirling twirling twirling for freedom. i've been told many timed i have

a face for radio and i have a face for animation. >> come on, he's pretty good. >> that's good. >> you watch the simpsons that's good. >> that is good. >> coming up at the top of the hour hudson river rivalry or the hudson river rivalry, new jersey governor chris christie jum noopz the race for president, sets his sights on new hampshire but george pataki has something to say about that. the former new york governor joins the table. and we have new polls that just crossed. we'll dig throughout numbers with john heilemann and chuck todd. and the naacp urging black clutches to take precaution after a seventh church burns to the ground this one in south carolina. we'll have details when we come back. three spreadsheets later you finally bring home the one. then smash it into a tree. your insurance company's all too happy to raise your rates. maybe you should've done a little more research on them. for drivers with accident forgiveness liberty mutual won't raise your rates

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♪ i mean what i say and i say what i mean. >> chris christie isn't afraid of telling it like it is. and now you'll be telling your friends about telling it like it is. >> sit down and shut up! >> all your favorite christie hits on a 12 cd set. get the hell off the beach. >> this is the crap i have to hear. >> get the hell back on the beach. >> for just $13.99 less than the cost of crossing the g.w. bridge. you'll get all these and more. >> first off, it's none of your business. >> i work the koendzcones, actually. >> are you stupid? on topic. >> telling it like it s the next best thing to getting shouted down at a christie campaign stop. so what are you waiting for? man up and pick up the phone, idiot!

>> all right. >> that is a john heilemann commercial. >> i have nothing to do with it. >> letterman retires, you filled the void. >> i was looking for worldwide pants. blam bloomberg pants. >> forget the smothers brothers we have john heilemann. >> is that a compliment? >> yeah. >> i like when you see numb nuts. >> i know. it just crawls right past. >> gale was funny. >> yeah. >> can you actually go on youtube and find the numb nuts thing. >> gale is an original track way back. >> golden oldie. >> yeah. >> so chuck todd is here as well. we have new polls to talk to them about. in iowa donald trump shoots up to second place with 10%. this is a poll tied with ben carson wisconsin governor scott walker still with a big lead

there at 18%. chris christie places 15th of 16 candidates tested. another poll this morning shows trump holding fast in second place. there is a cnn poll behind jeb bush. mike huckabee is in third driving down marco rubio and scott walker. >> keep that up for a second. and let's just take that in. i mean chuck todd we've been talking about, you know first tier, second tier third tier. right now there's a first tier. it's jeb bush. there's a second tier it's trump. and there's a third tier it's everybody else. >> it is. going back to the iowa poll. >> let's go back to the iowa poll. >> which, of course how about the fact that the one guy who hasn't announced is in first place still? >> yeah. >> you know i mean it is sort of walker is obviously he and kasich are going to be the last two in. his ability to sustain in iowa as everybody else he has yet to

get in officially. people have gotten their bumps. trump is getting a bump here. >> he is just not make news. is he campaigning? >> i think -- what i'm saying is that he is more strength i think than we sometimes -- we sort of like have glossed over him of late. and he's, you know he's still the guy to beat in iowa. >> is he actively running around to iowa and new hampshire right now, john heilemann? what is he doing? he disappeared. we had three or four flashes where he had some bad media, bad press. and then hasn't really been on the front pages of the papers. >> he's not been out that much. the thing in all polling that we found over and over again in iowa is that the walker strength comes from the northwest part of the state. ch gets covered by the wisconsin media market. so that part of iowa is a

geographic strong hold for him that i don't think is ever going to go away. they see a lot of him on local tv. >> big deal in a 16 person field. it almost means it's done. you doann't want to say. that. >> that's a horrible strength in iowa. he has that big chunk in the state that gets to look at it on tv. >> is iowa as significant as it was four or eight years ago? >> look, there are all these -- whether you have -- you have three, four candidates that are banking on iowa as their launching pad, right? rubio, if rubio wins iowa i think that's you know he could be a rocket ship. ted cruz wants to make iowa the place he breaks out. obviously huckabee. so the more conservative candidates all that's going to be sort of the first win there. then of course new hampshire is all the everybody else is making new hampshire the make or break. the iowa thing is like i think sometimes we all overlook walker too often. we all know he's a front-runner

but i'm impressed with how he sustained that number in iowa. >> this year there is a cycle that in the past it's not like there's been iowa is must win or new hampshire is must win. it's like what chuck is saying a second ago this time it feels like both are must wins just for different sets of candidates. so there is one set of candidates that have to win eye ichlt one set of candidates are betting everything on new hampshire. >> walker can't lose. i think he's in big trouble if he loses iowa. >> yeah. >> you're like he has to win. >> so let's talk around the table. if you look at the candidates doing well in iowa and new hampshire, you have scott walker. he's doing all right in new hampshire. doing well in iowa. you have donald trump second in both. >> right. >> despite the fact that he's spending this week suing univision. and i just -- >> before the morning is out may include some of us. >> i just wonder though because, you know, when i first saw that

i rolled my eyes. god, you're running for president. don't sue univision and stop the press conferences. then i wondered is this a political tactic him fighting rolling up sleeves, him showing people he's not going to take it. suing univision. he's up there in all of those polls. and national polls. iowa new hampshire, he's second in all of them. >> let's say one more uncomfortable thing. nbc pulling the plug? probably helped him short term. >> i think it did. i think if he has a fight with nbc and univision, i think that helps him. >> a chunk of the party that says, hell yeah. >> yeah nbc's liberal. nbc's liberal. they're a bunch of left wingers. they have chuck todd running "meet the press." i'm joking about that. it's msnbc prime time obviously is attached to nbc and we can say that because every convention we go to every four years for most of the people on the floor they're waiving go to

hell nbc, they don't have -- they connect with what they see in prime time here with nbc. so this actually is a positive for trump. >> i think it's more important to understand who those people are because i don't think trump holds them for long. it's the same group of voters that he had, remember for a short period of time last time herm an cain got them. the question is where do they end up? they're here now with trump. but who is the candidate that channels them that they end up with, this chunk of voters? i think it happens to be ted cruz. i think that's who is the guy that is sort of gobbled up this part of the party. i think that's important to understand who those people are right now. >> and let's put up -- i think it is iowa that had ben carson sitting at 10%. if you were a governor and you have run a state and you see that donald trump and ben carson are devouring one fifth of all primary voters you may think

i'm going to go home for a couple months and golf. because seriously, those numbers are -- that's the one fifth going towards people that have never run anything in government. now there's an argument obviously, that maybe that makes them better candidates. for somebody's played by the rules, it's been city council or next -- i'm going to be a state legislature then a state senator and governor and then i can run for president. and ben carson sits next to the president and says i don't like obamacare. you know? suddenly he goes up. he's a 10%. trump is at 10%. i mean pretty crazy. >> you have to say about ben carson though one thing is he's been at 10% consistently all year long. >> doesn't really -- he has -- he is just there. i guess if -- >> and he's got. i have a lot of republican friends who are smart, highly educated people. advanced degrees.

they love ben carson and going to vote for him. >> if you're trying to look at the sunny side of the street if you were one of those student council presidents et cetera who looked up at those guys and thought to yourself in the line with what chuck said about donald trump. you look up and see that as 20% that is not going to be with those guys. one way or the other. if you look at it optimistically, donald trump is a novelty candidate. ben carson is going to fold because he doesn't know the rigors of the campaign trail. those are all votes i can eventually get. because eventually people are going to know me better and eventually these guys are going to crumble. if you are trying to look at optimistically that, is vote share that eventual sli going to migrate to a more established candidate and that's low hanging fruit. >> that is 29% of the iowa elect rat is cruz trump and carson. i get the sthaensense that one person will get that chunk of vote. >> let's keep the list up there and let me ask you all a

question that i'm seriously wondering about. if you look at all of these names, can you pick a name out of one of them who could realistically anticipate being president of the united states? >> sure. >> yeah. >> marco rubio. >> scott walker. >> scott walker. >> yeah. >> look i do think he -- i agree. i know what you're saying. >> ted cruz yesterday. >> he can fill the suit. i think walker -- whatever this moment is, you know, sort of looking the part a little bit. when you look at his past he has as good a path zblchl you see rand paul in there that will have support on both sides. >> you are surprised at rand paul's field? >> he really disappeared. then good so has scott walker. there are so many people in this field that there really is a crowding out. there is not enough oxygen. so this week can be rand paul's week. then next week can be scott walker's week. next week is jeb bush week.

these people come in and come out. >> john was talking to me right before going on this is the desperation of july. i thought that was a very good point as the debate season you think oh my god, i have to get in the debates. where these candidates may say anything to get a news psych sol they can get in. >> you think about how do you move your national number right? you talk about the candidates around the bubble right, the people in between. 8 and 13 out of 16. you got to get to the top ten. in the course of this moshgs the window for the fox debate sfifrtis the first week in august. one eight and 13 is one point in the national polls. what are you going do to move your self from 13 to 8? what do you say to try to move that 1.a5 points. >> it's going to be a nutty month. >> absolutely. >> we joke about simpson impersonations. that is not the dumbest thing in the world. you keep your name and go viral. you may see a lot of weird stuff

like. that. >> chris christie had his big announcement yesterday at his high school gym. here is a little of what he said. >> americans are not angry. americans are filled with anxiety. they're filled with anxiety because they look to washington d.c., and they see a government that not only doesn't work anymore, it doesn't even talk to each other anymore. it doesn't even try to pretend to work anymore. we have a president in the oval office who ignores the congress and a congress that ignores the president. we need a government in washington, d.c. that remembers you went there to work for us not the other way around. america is tired of hand wringing and indivisiveness weakness in the oval office. we need to have strength and decision making and authority back in the oval office. and that is why today i am proud to announce my candidacy for the republican nomination for president of the united states of america. >> we have to stop worrying

about being loved and start caring about being respected again. those at home and around the world. i am not running for president of the united states as a surrogate for being elected prom king of america. i am not looking to be the most popular guy who looks in your eyes every day and tries to figure out what you want to hear, say it and then turn around and do something else. when i stand up on a stage like this in front of all of you, there is one thing you will know for sure i mean what i say and i say what i mean and that's what america needs right now. >> i said in our last hour, it was only 19 months ago he was re-elected in new jersey with 60% of the vote. and now his popularity is about 30% depending on the poll you look at. how does he fit into this big republican puzzle right now? >> i think it's tough. i mean the message -- it's funny when he talks about congress and the president not talking to each other.

this is after the most productive week working together in the last two weeks getting that trade deal when you had boehner and ryan and obama holding hands and jumping off a cliff together when it came to doing a trade deal and beating back both of their bases. it felt like a really good message two years ago. and i think that it has the possibility of playing in new hampshire. but john kasich is going to have the same message. jeb bush has a more optimistic version of the same message. you have a lot of people that are trying to occupy that same sort of i'm going to go and get it done. i'm not going to you know pansy around here and this and that. so i don't know where he fits in as -- when you have both jeb bush and john kasich trying to do the same thing. >> what is the best case scenario? >> close your eyes and listen to that speech. on performance level is very strong. you close your eyes and listen to the speech. four years ago he had given that -- he'd been doing that. >> yep.

>> he was doing that. >> and with the part about declaring for president, you know, the republican party would have nominated him not by acclimation. he would have swept the field clean. en that would have been incredibly compelling thing. he would have been the republican nominee in 2012. you know now what's the best case scenario? the best case scenario is that all the address the establishment part of the nominating field has problems and doesn't catch fire and stumbles and falls apart. and he does the john mccain thing and somehow town hall meeting by town hall meeting gets on the debate stage and new hampshire opens the door to him. but i think as we said on the show a couple days ago, it's a very, very narrow path. >> i have to say spring training is about to come to an end. and the real season is about to start. and you close your eyes and you listen to that speech it's one of the most powerful messages anybody can give especially in a year that most voters consigned to the fact that they're going to get a bush and a clinton. one guy out there saying hey,

listen, i'm not going to sit around trying to figure out what you want to hear. i'm going to tell you what you need to hear. and you may not agree with me. but if i'm saying it you know i believe it. you know i'm going to go to washington and fight for it. and there's nothing you can do to change my mind. i'm going to do what i think is right. that is a pow areful message. i think we were all thinking the same thing. is it powerful now with chris christie? can he get past the past two years? if so, i think that's the most compelling message out there. >> i think it is too. i think it's a better message coming from outside the two parties. >> yeah. >> i was hearing his, you know because there is sort of the thought he's going -- you know doing the whole thing, going after republicans and going after the president. i still look at this environment and i'm still shocked with everybody wanting to run for president that we haven't had semiserious people say you know what? i'm going to try to do this third party. i'm going to try to do this

independent. because his message is more powerful if he weren't running in either party's primary. >> yeah. >> all right, chuck todd, we won't talk about the dodgers. i think we have run out of time. >> dodgers are in first place. >> i worried about the last couple days. >> they don't have a bull pen. they're calling up barnicle. >> that's more than half the bull pen. that's pretty g chuck, thanks. still ahead on "morning joe," tom perez on president obama's plan to give overtime pay to nearly five million more americans. up next he's 10-0 in elections. form are new york governor george pataki joins us to explain how he plans to stay undefeated. we'll be right back. ng fast. could be bad. could be a blast. can't find a single thing to wear. will they be looking at my hair? won't be the same without you bro.

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talking a lot this morning about the 2016 race and now we have one of the candidates former new york governor and presidential candidate george pataki. governor, great to see you. >> dirt farmer for get this country's squire. that is you, joe. >> grew up on a farm where our main crop was rocks. >> were rocks. >> absolutely.

>> and we liked it zbhchlt we loved it. still do. >> so you said something earlier. we talk about new hampshire. you going to new hampshire a lot. you said new hampshire people who certainly i love. they're tough on their politicians. i love that. they demand a lochlt but you said they remind you a lot of upstate new york voters where i lived for five years. >> very much like upstate new york. i do have a farm that is north of the vast majority of the people in new hampshire. i'm the only one that goes south to go to new hampshire from the canadian border up by where the prisoner's escaped, by the way. >> that was crazy. speaking of crazy, the bear and the governor. i know you love democratic on democratic crime is your favorite kind of crime whether it comes to politics. >> well, that's most of it. >> but isn't that crazy that a mayor would hit a governor who has so much control over how new york city runs? >> it really, is joe. there is always tension between

someone who just as the city's interest and somebody who has to represent the whole state. but the governor ultimately has the greater control. the city can't do much without the state saying okay we authorize you to do. this i don't understand what diblasio is thinking. i don't think it's particularly smart. there are always personal battles. you keep them behind the xenz. >> if you were governor and the mayor of the city and he tacked new that way publicly you would, a, rise above it or b, exact retribution? >> both. you rise above it publicly but underneath, cut somebody's legs off. >> yes. you're always above the fray except when you're not. >> hey, i governed new york for 12 years. i got it pretty well. >> it actually gets to governing. >> it does. >> so what were the toughest elements of you dealing with -- you dealt with two mayors of new york city during your tenure. what were the tougher elements of dealing two different mayors

and personalities? >> we got along closely. the biggest problem were the staffs. the staffs always wanted to build up their principal and other side would say they're trying to do this to us. but we never had -- rudy and i never had any direct personal battles. mike and i never had any direct personal battles. the other part is the press. the press in new york city advocates for new york city and they forget the governor has to say no to the city because you represent and lead the whole state. >> we're looking at this list of candidates and the field seems to grow. >> you only have two pages. >> i have two pages. >> we seem to get a new one every day. governor christie joined the race yesterday. wount qualify for that august debate fit were to start today. how do you breakthrough governor pataki and such a crowded field? what is the message to rise up? >> the message is that i run government well. i bring people together. i've done it. i've done it in the deepest blue

state. and i am going to reform washington. just like i reformed new york. and you look at washington. it's too big, too powerful too intrusive. prem saying it's so big you can't manage it. they said the same thing about new york when i ran for governor. when i left it was a state that changed -- turned direction 18 o degrees. the deepest blue state overwhelmingly democratic. i know i can do it in washington as well. the other thing about the polls today, you look at the polls, the latest once in new hampshire, 85% of republican voters have said they have no clue who they're going to vote for. 8%. >> 8% have made up their mind. so in august 15 to the 8% of the people decide who is going to be a serious candidate, i don't think it is the right thing to do. you fight the fight. make the case. and just go win. >> let me ask you more pragmatic question. had a is the message that willie and i asked, what message you use to breakthrough.

practically, tactically, how do you breakthrough? you have about a month, right? you have about a month to move up in the polls. what do do you in the next month to get yourself on the first debate stage? >> i'm not worried about august 16th. i'm worried about february 16. it's just hard work. it is retail politics. that's what i love about both iowa and new hampshire. you don't have a big new york city or l.a. media market. pel want to sit down and look you in the eye. they want to ask you a question and you don't have time to call a pollster. it's the type of politics i love. it's the type of politics i do best. the prospect of being out there and connecting with voters. >> michael steel, former chair of the rnc. he knows a thing or two about elections. michael? >> yes. >> question for the governor. >> you've been a successful three term governor in new york that is going to wind his way through a primary process that is driven by the south. and in light of the recent court rulings and what we've heard coming out of the base of the

party, what is your message to conservatives in -- across the country but particularly where the strength of the party is now in the southern region? what do you say to them that will either stand you apart or move our agenda forward? >> you know i've been down to the south. i've been to south carolina a number of times. i spoke at ralph reid's faith and freedom forum about ten days ago. the reception was very well. i was tremendous. and the message very simple. and that is that is the nature of america going to be? are we going to be a country where the politicians tell us how we have to live our lives or it is going to be what america has always been where the people tell the politicians what they're supposed to do for us? we have lost this country for the moment. to the bureaucrats, the politicians and the elites in washington who are telling us that we have our health care how we have our education, how we run our businesses. we're going to change that and give people back the power to

make their own decisions. >> all right. governor, final question wloshgs is your favorite comedian? >> i love will farrell. >> there you go. so we were talking about -- >> i redeem myself here. >> that is better. >> john, you asked him a question. >> i d we were up in new hampshire and st. patrick's day breakfast comedy thing. >> yeah. >> a bunch of drunk irish people. >> hey. hey. >> i say that with affection and admiration. but the governor did a nice job on the roast. but then he came down and i asked him on camera who his favorite comedian was and to say he was a deer in the headlights would be an insult to deer. >> i'm talking about iranian policy. he's asking me about my favorite comedian at 8:00 in the morning. >> it was a comedy themed event. >> i'm trying to throw him life lines. >> he's trying to say --

i finally threw him lenny bruce. i like lenny bruce. >> isn't that something you never know where it's coming. your mind is going 1,000 miles an hour. somebody asks you a question and you blank out. this isn't about you. i'm just saying generally. everybody is pushing and pulling and prodding and one day you're exhausted, energy level is down. you got a call from home you have to return. they ask you questions and you stare. >> it's part of the fun. you never know which side you're going to get hit from. kind of like that. >> he did like lenny bruce. >> in 12 years, i did not pardon one person except lenny bruce. john heilemann bailed me out. >> i that i is a big credential for you for the white house. >> governor good luck out. there. >> thank you. >> up next historic black church near charleston burns to the ground. the latest on the investigation into what may have caused the fire which is the seventh black church to burn in the south after the charleston church shooting. we'll have details next.

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a historic black church north of charleston south carolina burned to the ground last flight. the african-american congregation of mt. zion ame is more than 100 years old. i was previously set ablaze in june of 1995 by the ku klux klan. then president clinton even attended the rededication in

1996 after the church was rebuilt. but the county fire chief says it's not yet known whether last night's fire was intentionally set and noted that a lightning storm passed through the area around the same time. meanwhile, the charleston post and currier reports that mt. zion is the seventh black church to burn in the south in the wake of the charleston church shooting. asked whether last night's fire could be related to the others the chief of the state law enforcement division said "certainly i think we all are concerned about those things. the naacp is also concerned tweeting this warning for black churches to "take necessary precautions." >> why isn't this the lead story? >> i know. >> i mean the lightning strikes in the area. that's a lot of lightning strikes. >> they say it is a storm. >> they're now going have a rally on the lawn of the state capital. are we kidding ourselves here?

this is still engrained in tom parts of too many people in one section of the country. >> and having a conversation about the confederate flag is one step. >> there's been a series of church burnings across the country now concentrated in the south. this is the seventh. and the reality for i think a lot of folks right now, you and i talked about. this take the blinders off, people about, race in this country. the tensions still exist. the flag is just a symptom of deep rooted underlying problems that we have not addressed adds a country. there's a lot of work here. when the klan marches this weekend, you've got to take stock of what that means in the 21st century. here we are now still facing this long trod to something and we don't know what that something is. so i think we've got a lot of work to do. another church burning is not a good sign. >> and now we have black churches around the south not just in south carolina thinking about the idea of having armed

security at churches on top of everything else. we'll keep an eye on this story. the obama administration is working overtime to expand pay for working extra hours. will it help the middle class or cost businesses more money snt second of labor is our guest when we return rment if you misplaced your discover card you can now use freeze it to prevent new purchases on your account in seconds. and once you find it you can switch it right on again. you're back! freeze it, only from discover. get it at discover.com.

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have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. . the washington monument where the president announced a plan that would make millions more americans eligible for oversim take. the rule change would increase the salary tlesh shoeldhreshold for those who qualify for time and a half to just over $50,000. currently that applies to those making $24,000 annually. it could raise wages for as many as five million people. but some business groups are opposed to the plan warning the

move will hinder job creation. u.s. secretary of labor tom perez. secretary perez, good to have you with us this morning. lay out more specifically if you could this plan. >> sure. this is about what it means to be middle class in america. when i was a kid, my friends parent was a manager. that meant they were in the middle class. they may have worked 50 60 hours a week. they were paid fairly flchlt 2004, the rules were changed by the bush administration to assist employers at the expense of workers and make it easier to deny overtime eligibility for people. as a result you see way too many people working 60 hours a week and making 25 $30,000 that are effectively working 20 hours for free. that's not fair. that's what we're trying to change. >> mr. secretary, let me ask you a question about ttp. i'm in favor of it. i think it's the only way forward for this country to stay competitive. many who oppose it talk about the fact that -- or they assume

that it will bring down waynes for american workers here whether it's from unions or those on the far left. what are your thoughts on that and your reply to them? >> well, when i look at export related jobs that get created edcreated, take a look at washington state. that is the most export dependent state in the country. they have the highest minimum wage in the country. they created really good jobs over the last 20 years. they've been above the national average. and when you do trade right, can you create good jobs. export related jobs on average pay 15 to 18% more than nonexport related jobs. so we continue to work to make sure that the north star and ttp is the american worker. and that we learn from the lessons and some of the mistakes of history. that's what we're trying to do is meaningfully improve the situation so that american workers can benefit by making sure that we have effective labor protections, we have effective environmental protections and that's what

we're working on. >> mr. secretary, back to the overtime regulations. what kinds of jobs do the people who would be affected positively by the overtime regulation, what kind of jobs do they hold? and is there a ceiling or a floor to the income that they are getting? how does it work practically? >> sure. you have a lot of people right now who are working 60 70 hours a week in a variety of areas. the fair labor standards act applies in many sectors. it's not simply retail. but retail is a perfect example. you see the person working 60 hours, he or she is the most valuable person for that employer. they're opening the store, they're closing the store. and as a result of the 2004 rule the debt got stacked against that worker. because they were considered exempt employees even though they're making 25 $30,000 and so they're effectively working that 20 hours for free.

and so what we're saying in this proposed rule, we're trying to brit back to the situation that existed in 1975 where if you had taken that framework or a sim framework and brought it up to the year 2015 you would still have those middle class jobs. so that's what we're trying to do. if you're going to treat someone as a manager, pay them as a manager. that's the simple proposition. and $50,000 is a good middle class job. that's what we're doing is fighting for middle class america. >> so mr. secretary, obviously you're aware of the supreme court deciding to take the case fredericks versus the teacher's union of california. at issue is whether a public union of government workers can force somebody that doesn't want to be a part of that union to pay union dues. do you think the fairest outcome might be to let people who want to be the union be in the union

and those who don't want to be in the union not be in the union? >> well this is a case that gets to the heart of some of the people who do god's work in this country. teachers firefighters those who are helping folks. and, you know i'm a big believer in collective bargaining. you look at what collective bargaining does it protects the collective. it protects everybody. and it has been -- >> but so is a teacher. let's say there's a teacher that supports, for instance, second amendment rights or supports other social issues that a union actively and aggressively campaigns against which as you know they don't just talk about jobs, they create political coalitions. and, you know i learned it time and time again when i campaigned against something that a union boss would do union -- individual union members come to me and say don't worry about it, we're voting for you. we disagree with the issues. why should a teacher be compelled, a great teacher be compelled to pay union dues to a

union that she doesn't agree with politically? why should they be able to use her money that she works hard to make to promote somebody else's speech that she disagrees with? >> this is a case about free riders. when a union works hard to help make sure that you get a fair wage, you get benefits you have a voice in the workplace, if that person who doesn't want to pay dues what ends up happening is they get to be a free rider. they pay nothing. and they get all the benefits. >> but if it's -- >> if it's a monopoly and the teacher doesn't have a choice to teach unless she pays into that monopoly, that's not being a free rider. that is somebody that is being grabbed by the hair and pulled on a train and saying you're going to give us money whether you want to be on this train or not. >> well that's someone who got an immense wind fall because they didn't have to do nothing. they didn't have to pay acent and they got a raise that somebody else negotiated. that is really not fair.

you know collective bargaining they're not getting rich here. you know they are doing their best to teach our children. >> i have no problem with collective bargaining. i have no problem with collective bargaining. >> i have no problem about collective bargaining. i support it. i just don't support somebody being compelled to pay something that they're morally objected to. michael still has a question. >> mr. secretary, i want to just drill down on that a little bit. i think joe is asking the right question. this is not about what that teacher is getting with respect to her wages and the protections and the workplace. it is what the union is doing with her wages outside of those areas when as joe said when that union then decides to engage on other political issues that has nothing to do with teaching in america, that has nothing to do with the classroom that, has nothing to do with awhat that teacher is responsible for in that classroom, why should she pay for that? why should he pay for that? why should his or her dues be put into that area that has

nothing to do with the work she does as a teacher? >> and why should the teachers who are paying for the collective bargaining rights that result in health care that result in a fair wage that result in teachers and firefighters having a voice in workplace conditions why can someone not pay a cent for that very important function and then get all the benefits? that's why we call it fair share. if you want to get the benefits of raises and cost of living increases and a voice in the workplace, i think that's really important. i think you should pay your fair share. that's what collective bargaining has done. that's why the president believes in collective bargaining and so do i. >> all right. thank you so much, mr. secretary. i have a feeling we'll be talking about this quite a bit more. >> yeah. >> i just -- you know i think that's the real you know crux of this issue. it's not that you know my dues are not going to be used to help me in the classroom for wages and, et cetera it's what the union does with the dues outside

of that classroom that is the issue here. i mean if i have like you said second amendment, i support second amendment. the union does not. i'm pro-choice or pro-life, the union is some place -- whatever outside of my job, that's where this becomes a problem, joe. >> again, to compel somebody -- >> to compel -- >> -- to write a check to a union they don't even want to be a member of to go ahead and then support candidates who they are deeply offended by would be the same thing, mike if, we had a union around this table and you had to contribute money and i decided that we were going to give your tax money or your union dues to ted cruz. you would be deeply offended. >> yeah. but i wouldn't be deeply offended if i were offered the following choice, whether it was a teacher or whether i sit at this table and you want to give the money to ted cruz if the thing was presented to me look you don't have to give your dues to here or to the teachers union. but you're not going to get the pay raise and the best health benefits. do you still want the job? yeah, i still want to be a

teacher. okay, come on in. >> but that's blackmail. >> why is that blackmail? >> because what you're saying to me then is i've got -- i'm going to give you -- in order to get the benefit to do my job, as part of my job, that you can then take my money and put it into some area that i don't want to pay. so how about the unions stay out of that arena and focus on teaching classrooms students as opposed to getting into all the ancillary issues that have nothing to do with teaching. >> that's a radical idea. >> so you're into a larger issue now. >> that is the crux of the issue. >> you're saying that teachers would focus on teaching? wow. >> and unions would focus on teachers trying to teach. >> that's what i meant. the teachers unions would focus on teaching students? >> we work for organization that's give money to political parties and organizations that you don't necessarily agree with as well? >> yes. >> they're not taking it out of my paycheck. >> they're not taking it out of my salary. i may make them money. >> it's the dues that is the contentious part of this

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coming up a major battle is brewing between new york's top two democrats, bill de blasio

rips into andrew cuomo, known for seeking retribution. the state department releases roughly 3,000 e-mails from hillary clinton's first year any state department. experts have pored over the document overnight to see if it contained smoking guns. willie looked over it to see if it compared any parallels to julie lieu ease dreyfuss in "veep."

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how are you guys doing? boy it rained hard earlier this morning. >> yeah, severe weather up here. >> kids -- >> okay. moving right along, alex you can send bill karins home. >> michael steele is here and we have a map. >> boy, that's bad. >> did you get the alarm on your phone this morning? >> yeah. >> there's that. >> you say these hillary clinton e-mails read like a scene out of "veep". >> some of them do. there are a couple of people focused on them and this is the first batch. we'll get them every month, 55,000 pages. this is the first batch from the earlier time in the state department. late last night the state department did release 3,000 of e-mails from hillary clinton's personal account from 2009. many of them focus on every day events and scheduling issues. one of the takeaways, sidney

blumenthal did had a greater role than people initially believed. the two were in regular contact about a host of issues just months after clinton became secretary of state. the documents show clinton pushed for him to get a job at the state department. blumenthal acted as an intermediary in the peace process and urged -- >> sidney blumenthal was involved as an intermediary in northern ireland. whoa. >> i think he was hounding her with e-mails, just front pages of the "new york times" and -- >> that's what you hope. >> i sincerely hope that. >> holy cow. >> she wasn't saying stop e-mailing me she was clearly accepting what he was -- >> maybe she's overly polite. >> pushing for tony blair? >> bigger role than we thought.

>> much bigger. >> and she did want him to get a job at the state department and obama administration didn't think that was a good idea. the e-mails were unsolicited and one asks are you still awake? i will call if you are. kol powell and rahm emanuel all communicated with clinton. clinton appears concerned about her access to president obama when considering a joint interview with henry kissinger. i see potus at least once a week while k saw nixon every day. of course if i were dealing with that potus, i would probably camp at his office to prevent him from doing something problematic. she asked about a cabinet meeting she heard about on the radio and turned out -- >> that is from "veep". >> am i supposed to be there? turned out she didn't have to

be. >> lawn mant rens repair guys. >> complains about arriving at the white house for a meeting canceled at the last minute. there are kind of funny e-mails including one exchange with long time aide where clinton appears to be unfamiliar with how to use a fax machine. she says i thought it was supposed to be off the hook to work. there's a mysterious e-mail about the hamptons where the entire text is redacted. it's pretty mundane stuff for the most part but this is just the first stretch of her job as secretary of state. we'll learn more including more about benghazi. >> let's bring in the reporter who first broke the e-mail stories, michael schmit. what's your take on the latest batch to be released? >> there's not a lot of exciting things in there. what happened last night was actually kind of interesting. the state department went back and said they classified about

two dozen of her e-mails, portions of them saying that information of them was now classified. they said it wasn't classified at the time but it had to be redacted in the e-mails. if you recall she has said there was no classified information on the e-mails. but people at the state department said to me they thought it was hard to believe if all of these 55,000 pages that she had, that she didn't have anything sensitive. apparently, it's sensitive enough now to not be disclosed. >> that's fascinating. and so we're going to get these once a month, is that correct? how did that ruling go down? why did the judge want to let it out in dribs and drabs? >> well i think the dribs and drabs come from the state department which ha struggled to produce these things in a timely matter. they struggled to get them to committee and been criticized about that. i was told kerry was frustrated with the way his underlings at the state department have handled this because it has

brought criticism on the state department and allowed the republicans on capitol hill to say they are not producing stuff in a timely manner. it is really -- kerry is afraid it's hurting the state department something related to hillary clinton, his predecessor is now hurting him. >> thank you michael schmidt, we appreciate it. the concerns about the e-mail situation, i think they are going to be taken care of. they've appointed somebody with a spectacular record. >> it's funny you should bring that up. there are concerns now that a top government lawyer in charge of document production during the irs scandal is now in a similar role for the release of these e-mails for hillary clinton. katherine duvall is responsible for turning e-mails over to congress. she told house investigators she was not aware backup tapes of lois lerners lost e-mails exist. >> wait wait.

so the lady that handled lois lerner's situation when she described a server or backup e-mail is now in charge of this? >> yes, this consistency, that's what it's all about. consistent in our ability to get it right. >> isn't that remarkable? >> it is. it is one of these situations, again, where even if there's a nonstory there, you create a story by the way you handle it and roll it out and way you have people deal with it. if you've got a person already got an issue with congress and got an issue with how she's handled documents, why put her in charge of something that you know is so politically explosive as this. >> that doesn't seem to make sense. >> what still doesn't make sense, you have somebody so well poised to enter the market and field and how she didn't anticipate that her e-mails would be the topic of conversation like this is beyond me. it's so amateur hour especially for the clintons. >> let's move on to politics here in new york.

a major battle is brewing between -- >> this is ugly. >> two top democrats in the state. raging bill bill de blasio launching a strong attack against fellow democrat governor andrew cuomo. de blasio accused cuomo of lacking leadership and being focused on transactional politics instead of the best interest of the city. the mayor also said he hoped for a strong partnership with the governor but said quote, i've been disappointed at every turn. >> i certainly don't believe the assembly had a real working partner in the governor or the senate in terms of getting things done for the people of this city and in many cases the people of the state. what i believe happened here is the governor worked with the senate in some cases to inhibit the work of the assembly and inhibit the agenda that new york city put forward. what i found was he engaged in his own sense of strategies and own political machinations and

if someone disagrees with his personally, some sort of revenge or vendetta follows and too many people in the state have gotten used to that pattern and thrown a bit by it. more and more of us are saying we're not going to be parties of this anymore. >> a spokesman for governor cuomo responded to the interview with a brief statement. for those new to the process, it takes coalition building and compromise to get things done in government. we wish the mayor well on his vacation. >> wow. >> end quote. >> never been a great relationship between the two guys but they sort of kept it suppressed publicly. it's come out in dribs and drabs, but this is an open broadside by the mayor. >> in many respects the governor holds the cards because the mayor needs to go to the governor to get certain things done for the city. this is not a good way to get those things done irrespective of how you feel about the governor or what has response has been to things in the past. you've got to find the space to work with him.

he has the -- all of the cards when it comes to legislature and agenda for the city. >> what's de blasio doing? >> you know i don't really know. it certainly is not helpful to new york city that the mayor of the city refers to the governor as someone seeking revenge upon him in the city and saying he has actively planned against the city. is bill de blasio setting up a series of straw dogs that everyone is against him and he's the only one fighting for the people? he's been doing that in a sense with the police department for a while. >> in his campaign right. >> he continues it now waging one on one war against andrew cuomo, which is not going to work for bill de blasio or new york. >> i don't see the sympathy card playing well especially where he doesn't have that many allies in the city or state. >> there's no upside he needs to dial it back and have a pow wow privately with the governor. >> why did he do it?

there has to be some sort of logic. why do you go after a guy that really controls what you're able to do in the city? >> i have no idea. >> i rarely see that. you just -- you know during our administration in maryland there were mayors who weren't happy and county executives weren't happy with things you were doing. it was all back channelling and work it out. never went to the "washington post" or major newspapers or did a tv interview in which you call the governor out. at the end of the day, you know that line item i see a zero. >> the big tipping point appears to be from reading it willie you might know more about this than i do not living here full-time -- appears to be the mayor's control over the schools. >> school system big one. >> that he wanted the schools under his control and andrew cuomo, govern cuomo went along with a year's extension of having the state assume control. >> right, and mayor de blasio wanted governor cuomo to turn over control to the mayor to

control the schools and he's been frustrated on that and questions of housing as well. he also set up in the interview yesterday more conflict. i fully expect now because i've done this interview, which i volunteer to do more acts of revenge from governor cuomo, because of what i'm saying here. it's not that he's looking for a solution but setting himself up that he wants the conflict and push and pull with the governor strange move. >> it would be great to hear from bloomberg and get his perspective. >> there's another person though who bill de blasio has alienated. >> on inauguration day, that was ugly. >> i don't think bloomberg is too worried about that. >> i don't think so. it is interesting on the education front, obviously bill de blasio wants to give the unions teachers unions the keys to the door of all of the schools. he's been very clear about that. and just let them completely run it i would say run it into the

ground whereas you've had cuomo where we've shown pictures of him in rallies talking about the need for -- >> charter schools. >> choice for poor parents to have choice so it's a battle but you don't win those battles by doing what he did. i wonder if it's just inexperience or arrogance, what it is. >> as michael can tell you, you need the state if you're a mayor. >> you do. >> you can't do it on your own, strange way to go about it. >> bottom line whether it's new york city in albany or annapolis and baltimore, you need to have that relationship intact. if not the city ultimately suffers. >> let's talk about president obama, there's been a lot of talk that last week was perhaps his best week as president. a victory on trade and stirring eulogy for reverend clementa

pinckney. >> in terms of my best week my best week i will tell you, was marrying michelle. that was a really good week. malia and sasha being born, excellent weeks, a game i scored 27 points. i've had good weeks in my life i will tell you and i'm blessed to have had those. i think last week was gratifying. in many ways last week was a culmination of a lot of work i've been doing since i came in office. how am i going to spend whatever political capital i've built up? you know the list is long my instructions every last ounce of

progress that we can make when i had the privilege, as long as i have the privilege of holding this office. >> it's a long way of saying yes. >> yeah it was. >> and i think it was, don't you think? right up there. >> no doubt about it. the supreme court helped him out a great deal. >> yeah. certainly did. >> a lot of events just came together at the same time and one after another. you look what happened in the 24-hour time period mike and the supreme court on gay marriage, on obamacare and then the funeral the next day and the stirring scene that we saw down there, it was an extraordinary 24 hours. geez, i don't know when that will be repeated again. >> truly significant week for the president. a truly significant week for the country, i think as well with the two supreme court decisions

as well as the president reclaiming himself really in front of the country and from the pulpit, from the stage of that church. the singing obviously, but the message he was delivering was so much from within him, more than we've ever seen i think since he became president. >> right. don't forget the lifeline he got for tpp. he got a big boost from that as well. >> the question i have he references political capital, the political capital he's gained. i don't know what political capital he's gained from this great week beyond tpp, what is it? what is that nexus between him and congress that's going to allow him to get the next big thing done? >> that is an interesting question that michael just raised. i was told yesterday by a prominent democrat that one of the things they fear now is because of what happened last week because of such significance, the two court decisions and the president's

address in that church where you were down in charleston south carolina that resonated throughout the country, that they are going to double up now on anything having to do with the iran negotiations the republicans. they are not going to give him another victory. >> well i don't know if you'd call it a victory, giving away a store to the iranians. >> we don't know what's in the deal. >> if one half of what's in the deal is what's been leaked that's in the deal i would say voting it down would be a victory for america. i mean you know john kerry and a lot of players here. do you think that we're going to fold as much as we're hearing we're going to fold on inspections and on some of these other issues? >> no i don't. >> i'm relaxed then. >> have a nice weekend. >> moving on. >> all right, willie everything is going to be okay. >> still ahead on "morning joe" gary hart joins us at the table

we're excited about that. why he has america has become numb to income equality. plus, greece defaults on its loan but will a bailout plan work? we'll go live to athens. first, here's bill karins our rock bottom priced meteorologists. >> and bad guy. >> you stuck me through customs. >> he is people ask how is he is he really as much of a you know what? yeah a genuinely bad guy. >> lots of luck. just bad forecasts. >> it could be the other way around. good morning, everyone thunderstorms woke a lot of people early around the new york city area and now they are playing havoc with our morning rush hour in the boston area. a soaking torrential rain right now. we even have a severe thunderstorm warning here for areas of southeastern mass that

include brockton until 8:30 this morning. possibility of damaging winds with that. look at the lightning cluster towards martha's vineyard. keep indoors if there's that much cloud to ground lightning. back to missouri it's been raining nonstop most of the spring, flash flood warnings for areas south of columbia. this rain will continue to trek towards kentucky. this green blob is light rain and darker reds are very heavy rain and that's where we have flash flood warnings where we could see up to 4 inches of rain by the time we're done today. that's what computers are hinting at the heaviest south of st. louis and we could get significant flash flooding as it heads into areas towards keep gir ardo maybe 2 to 3 inches with those thunderstorms, nothing that will cause horrible problems. out west it's a broken record you want to get rid of. 102 in boise. yesterday was 103. redding, california 113

yesterday. 115 is the forecast today. ridiculous numbers there in the west. we'll leave you with a shot of st. louis -- they switched it on me. how dare you guys do that? you know it's wednesday. washington, d.c. storms overnight, you've cleared out. i can roll with this. more "morning joe" coming right up. how much protein does your dog food have? 18%? 20? introducing nutrient-dense purina one true instinct with real salmon and tuna and 30% protein. support your active dog's whole body health with purina one. ahhh. beautiful day in baltimore where most people probably know that geico could save them money on car insurance, right? you see the thing is geico well, could help them save on boat insurance too. hey! okay...i'm ready to come in now. hello? i'm trying my best. seriously, i'm...i'm serious. request to come ashore. geico.

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we're following breaking news out of greece where the government says it's ready to concede ground in bailout talks. joining us from athens chief international correspondent michelle ka ruscaruso-cabrera. >> reporter: there's concessions

in the negotiations ongoing for months now. what is unclear whether those are enough concessions to get the creditors the other european countries that lent them so much money, to actually come to the table again this week and sit down with them and try to hammer out a deal that will give them some money so so they can pay back loans to the imf and keep paying their bills. they may have decided to make these concessions, the greek government, because the banking system is shut down. as a result people are limited to withdrawing only 60 euros per day and pensioners many of whom are very elderly and go to the bank once a month to get their money, if they are supposed to get 1,000 euros a month, today they were told they can get 120 euros this week and come back again next week and hopefully there would be cash there. it's not clear there would be cash there because they ran out of tens and twenties yesterday. some it's become a desperate

situation. there's a big meeting of the european central bank and that will be crucial as well. >> great to see you, michelle. how many of this last minute decision was based on that referendum that was called for sunday where he assumed that the majority majority would choose to leave the euro and now we're not hearing that is the case. >> that could be a lot of this. with the crisis between the banks and polling going against him, as you suggested, in the middle of the night, the prime minister says we're going to have a referendum on this bailout. we think this is too harsh and cruel and we want you to vote no a week from now on sunday. the initial polling in the weekend showed him winning. however, once the banks were shut down the polling started to move against him and he may have seen -- may have thought that wow, maybe i'm going to lose this thing on sunday. that could be pressuring him as

well. if he loses in theory he could lose his position as well the prime minister -- greek politics are more complicated than that but to simplify it. >> thank you so much michelle. good luck out there. what do you think? >> i think they are going to back down. i think they were playing chicken and i think -- >> let's buy some property. >> buy the acropolis, two or three islands -- >> poor things. >> just look back to the olympics though did we not see this coming where up until the very last day and stadiums still weren't complete? this is turning into a case study. the reality is we've never seen a western country of this size and magnitude go through something they are experiencing now and citizens are finally getting a taste of what reality will be like for them though it's been very difficult on them as well for the past fou years. >> the olympics are usually very

good for cities and countries. boston wants to get it. i remember when a lot of people in spain were saying that the barcelona olympics would turn things around for spain. you look it did. look at them. by the way, we could buy half of spain right now. >> the feeling on the street -- >> do we have a seven second delay still? the initial committee that bid for the olympics and bid for boston to become the olympic city in america got off to the wrong start by announcing the olympic bid wouldn't cost the taxpayers anything. not to say that there's a strong strain of cynicism in boston and massachusetts but a lot of people didn't believe that. they've been playing catch-up ever since, the feeling is still i think against having the olympics there but we'll see. >> while we're staying over "the boston globe" what a great shot

and great match. beating the germans. we've got a great team there. i hope the men catch up with the women sometime soon on the international level of soccer. but who do we play in the finals? >> we'll learn tonight. either england or japan. i think japan is the favorite there but people here and in the u.k. are kind of excited about the potential of that match-up if it happens. carli lloyd scored a goal and germany was the number one team in the world, favored a little bit last night but the u.s. women's national team looked incredible. there's a penalty kick early on by carli lloyd and they sealed it late in the game with a second goal but this is a really good time. >> it is. i've been watching with my 11-year-old girl kate and it's just exciting. i miss the -- was it '99 when he won the world cup? >> i missed everything except where they took off their shirts at the end. these women are really

inspirational. >> not a great week for angela merkel. >> the final is on sunday. u.s. against either japan or england. >> coming up, nascar is making a big return to nbc sports dale earnhardt jr. is here. former senator and presidential candidate gary hart joins the table to talk about his vision of restoring america. we'll be right back. my school reunion's coming fast. could be bad. could be a blast. can't find a single thing to wear. will they be looking at my hair? won't be the same without you bro. when it's go, go to the new choicehotels.com. the site with the right room, rewards and savings up to 20% when you book direct.

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♪ with us now, former democratic senator from colorado gary hart. he's out with a new book "the republic of conscience." great honor to have you here. talk about the incredibly important message inside your book. >> there's been an explosion of lobbying, campaign finance and a networking involving both of those in washington. in the period of time since i served in the '70s and '80s and you later. it is causing the american people to doubt the integrity of their government, with good reason. and it is in my judgment out of hand. members of congress are walking across the street as they walk out the door and signing on for

millions of dollars. there are over 400 of them. that doesn't include committee staffs and others on the hill. and it's an incestuous system. >> they have a name for it dialing for dollars. what are you doing? going across the street to dial for dollars. you talked about the first time you noticed sort of the first time that horton hears a who. there's a moment you had a meeting that shocked you by the old standards, by the traditional standards, by the standards of good government. >> yes. it was 1979 and i met with coloradoans who came to washington, their washington representative brought them into my office. we had a nice conversation and they left. my administrative assistant came in with an envelope and i opened it it was a check for $2,000 they had been told by their washington representative that in exchange for meeting with me

they had to leave money. and i sent the check back down the hall as fast as i could. and it stunned me and even today, in my mind that was the tipping point. >> where it started, yeah. >> john heilemann. >> i want to ask about presidential politics. you continue to be a subject of enduring fascination, a book just written about you, a lot of people think that history was changed by what happened in that campaign. in a couple of different ways that bill clinton would not have been possible if not for the reaction to what the press did to you in 1988. if you had become the nominee we would never have had george w. bush. how do you feel about being a character kind of -- a lot of people see as being at a hinge of history? >> it's impossible for someone to to put oneself in the context that you've described. i've gone on with my life.

i've written books. i've taught at the university of colorado. i went back to school in my '6 060s and earned a ph.d. i'm continuing to try to contribute. i can't live on one weekend 30 years ago. >> let me put it a different way. was your assessment of the historical ramifications of what you went through in terms of how we now elect presidents? >> i think it was a historical anomaly. the rules changed to a degree. >> to a degree? they changed fast four years later e. oh, my god. you were a priest compared to what came later but go ahead. it is -- it really is -- really is mind blowing when you see what happened four years later. and see how history four years

before was completely changed by a feeding frenzy in '88, the likes of which i've never seen. >> actually '87. but what happened in my judgment was members of the media, first of all the media was changing we're changing, and sensational sensationalism ratings became more and more important and political media was introduced and so forth. but with the clinton experience i think reporters understood what people found interesting, they did not also think was important. and there was -- >> relevant to who was going to be the best president. >> people were dumbfounded -- members of the media were dumbfounded that the ratings, people couldn't get enough of the clinton story, but his popularity kept going. >> back to the book more than 400 former members of congress are now lobbyists.

400. >> it's more than that now. >> what does that mean? >> that doesn't include spouses, children, as i say, staff members. what it means is that there's a great potential for young people to run for office with the prospect of making money afterwards. that reverses the trend when you and i were elected, all of us met people who say i'm going to make some money and then i want to run for office. now it's reversed. >> dr. hart with your ph.d. on that topic, what are the thoughts on denny hastert. take away the sal ashs allegations and the fact he was able to pay someone $3 million. >> i'm sorry the -- >> denny hastert and the fact he wark walked away as a lobbyist and -- >> it's systemic. that's -- instances like that

demonstrate what i'm talking about here. this book, there are a lot of books now on corruption in washington. this is different because they go to the founders and the definition of corruption is by the founders was not bribery. it was putting special personal interests ahead of the common good. by that definition, our government is massively corrupt because it's all special interests now. >> so let's follow that argument. so what is the solution that you see that you talk about in the book that we can begin to turn this around this culture, this new culture, if you will turn it around? because you're right the american people are disconnected and distrusting. what are some of the solutions that we as people can begin to move towards and what about the politicians? what can they do particularly the next generation coming on? >> i don't think there's a single solution there almost never is. we have to avoid another massive

watergate. usually in america we reform the political system after some sort of terrible scandal to use the word appropriately. and i think two things that would suggest themselves one is a bar of some years between leaving office and signing on to become a lobbyist wait a year wait five years, wait 25 years as far as i'm concerned. second voters ought to demand the candidates not just of president but for other offices, that they take a pledge against taking special interest money. i did that in 1984. i think i was the first. i think senator sanders is doing it now. but what if mrs. clinton, jeb bush and others said i will not take money from corporate interests.

now, that gets very complicated because corporate executives themselves can write checks. you would have to write the legislation very carefully. >> all right, thank you so much. gary hart. we appreciate it. the republic of conscience. a lot to digest important information. thanks for being with us. >> great pleasure. >> coming up next a man who would have been -- i guess he was too young then wasn't he? dale earnhardt jr. couldn't have been his running mate he was probably playing tee ball. so much for my segue. dale earnhardt jr. joins us. >> i didn't know where you were going. >> i was trying to follow. >> he's too young.

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there's some facts about seaworld we'd like you to know. we don't collect killer whales from the wild. and haven't for 35 years. with the hightest standard of animal care in the world, our whales are healthy. they're thriving. i wouldn't work here if they weren't. and government research shows they live just as long as whales in the wild. caring for these whales, we have a great responsibility to get that right. and we take it very seriously. because we love them. and we know you love them too. the new thriller the english spy, on book shelves now and "new york times" best selling author daniel silva joins us. >>. you kill off a member of the

royal family. >> i'm sorry. >> the title sounds so much better when she reads it. >> it might be princess diana, inspired the person that you've killed off. >> i've borrowed a little bit from diana, a lot from diana, but i've mixed in other members of the royal family that people have been able to pick off. but the real inspiration for the opening sequence was the assassination in 1979. >> by the ira. >> killed on his fishing boat off the western coast of ireland. and that really served -- that suggested the opening sequence of the book. a man who kills a member of the british royal family is a master terrorist and bombmaker from the real ira who was responsible for the bombing in 1988. and he is a guy that went out

into the world after peace came to northern ireland and sold bomb making technology to the highest bidder. i wish i could say i created this, but it is true when the war ended there were a lot of very talented bombmakers and terrorists with nothing better to do. they went out into -- and sold this technology and this know how to people. one of the places they ended up was the islamic republic of iran. >> in the late '70s and early '80s in belfast, you get from british special air services as well as cia officers they would tell you that there were iranian in belfast, that there were many members of then the red brigade was one of the big terrorist groups there, to learn bomb making. >> and they -- first thing we have to keep in mind the ira

incredible bombmakers very good at what they did. you remember the terrible bombing campaigns at bishop's gate, those bombs were built in northern island, that smuggled down to the mainland moved into london. >> when i was growing up in the u.k., you had no trash cans anywhere, in the subways and stores because that was where -- >> there was so much cross pollination that went on between the ira and plo and fringe leftist groups and it took place largely under the auspices of one moammar gadhafi. they trained together in the camp. this is something that takes place in this novel. look, i think we've established that virtually all of the syntax the ira used came from gadhafi. >> a catholic priest from belfast called me one day back in boston and called me to see

if i could get a friend of his, who had just arrived in greater boston, a job. i said to him, sean what does he do? there was a pause and he said well, he's sort of an electrician. >> oh, my lord. >> my goodness. >> isn't it amazing as we talk about this it's amazing that peace has come. >> to northern ireland. >> and let's not get carried away with that. >> but one of the most -- jerry adams, a guy that obviously is still under suspicion for the murder, but the fact that he's been able to hold the peace on his side without being assassinated every time i say this one of my irish friends whose family was in the ira, it's not over yet. it's not over yet. >> it's not --

>> bombings that he was talking about growing up seems like we would see a bombing -- >> the big difference was there was a route to negotiation. the ira was an organization with which it was possible to hold negotiations, there was something they wanted and we could give. that is not true with islamic state. it's not true with al qaeda, nonnegotiable organization. i have a bit of a crush on gabriel -- >> you're not alone. >> i'm sure your wife is in the same bracket. tell me what happens. >> gabriel is a different character fou than the character i created 15 years ago. >> how is your relationship with gabriel? >> pretty good. i think the real gabriel allon were sitting here he would -- >> bit of a krum uj on. >> thank you so much. we love having you. >> thank you so much. >> really pleased to see you

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driver of number 88 car, dale earnhardt jr., along with nascar analyst and junior former crew chief and legend we'll call you legend too. >> thanks so much for being with us. >> nascar is coming back to nbc, a lot of people around here excited about that. >> i'm one of them.

crew chief for dale for years -- >> terrible boss wasn't he? >> you know -- >> throws things at you. >> we were co-workers. not my boss. but -- >> co-workers. >> that's what they told everybody that's in -- right now, we're all co-workers on the team together. >> exactly. so back at nbc, what's that mean to the networks? >> nascar was on nbc years ago and had huge popularity the ability to put it back on the network will be great. kicking off this weekend in daytona, sunday night with the big guys on nbc, it's going to be exciting. fourth of july weekend in daytona is always exciting. >> the growth of nascar through the years is nothing short of extraordinary. why? why is it? because people used to think, when i was growing up this is just something down from where i'm from down in the south, something that southerners like to follow. this is national from oregon to

connecticut to south florida, everywhere. >> absolutely. the success of our sport rests on this guy's shoulders. >> so you're saying you're screwed? >> the responsibility of to package and deliver this to the fans and the networks to deliver to the fans the broadcast and the quality of the broadcast. most of our fans are watching at home. most people that buy a ticket for the first time see it on tv. for them to deliver a good show is really important. >> yeah. you know as a crew chief and you, a big guy, star driver i've always been interested in the pit stops during the race the changing. how do you coordinate that? how often do you practice that to get? is there any communication going on during those stops between you and the crew chief? >> that's grown over the years. 20 years ago you took your mechanics and went out and practiced once a week and tried to do the best you could. it's evolved to where these are

professional athletes they maybe didn't quite make the nfl or major league baseball still tremendous athletes. we practice four or five days a week most of the big times have a weight room staff, coaching staff -- >> really? >> yeah it's as important as the race car is. the easiest place to pass is on pit row. pit stops are vital. without fast stops you can't compete. >> the older we get sometimes the more intrainspective we get, some things that used to be easy become hard. i'm curious, i'm sure going back to daytona after your dad was really tough for a while. and then i'm sure it got a little bit -- not easier but you got used to it more. how are you about it now? every time do you think about him? >> i think about him -- >> i'm sure you think about him every day, you know what i'm saying. >> i think it was difficult -- i didn't know what it would be like going back for the first time. we had a weekend off before the

race and i went down with my friends and partied and had a great time a lot of restaurants and fun down there and went to the race and won the race. that was sort of perfect closure for me. and we went back had a lot of success. my dad loved that race track. every time i went there, a went there with a great feeling and still today, it's one of my favorite places to go to. it's such an amazing facility. they've upgrade the race track over the past year. there's a lot of new amenities and a lot of great enjoyable things for the fans to experience at daytona. but it's our center piece, it's something that we're proud of as a sport. when people say, i've never been in a race where should i go? daytona 500. >> what should we be looking forward to this weekend? >> i think just like he just mentioned, daytona is the center piece, but the fourth of july race has always been there. it used to be run in the day, they added lights.

there's nothing like -- people can't imagine the size enormity of these race tracks 2 1/2 miles, cars going 200 miles per hour. it's a spectacle like no other. the seasons let up with multiple winners and playoff system. each one of the races gains momentum and gains significance as we get closer to the playoffs. >> it's exciting ang we learned this morning the future of nascar rests on your shoulder. i speak for dale jr. and everybody to say we're screwed. thank you very much. very exciting. thank you, dale good luck. nascar returns to nbc this sunday. we're all excited about it. dale jr. and rest of the field race for the checkered flag in the coke zero 400 at daytona.

i'm meteorologist bill karins july looks just like june. hot weather throughout the western half of the country. the poster child is boise, 102 degrees. areas in the northeast, early morning heavy rain and scattered thunderstorms in the afternoon. severe storms likely from missouri to tennessee. look at the hot weather building in kansas and oklahoma. have a great day. taste bud loving, deliciously fruity, grab-and-go, take on the world with 100 calories, snack. yoplait greek 100. there are hundreds of reasons to snack on it.

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i learned this month, coming up in july is going to be a crazy nomonth. you look at the national polls, everybody will be scratching and clawing to make the debate stage in august. >> what have you learned? >> the seventh church burning in the south. it's time we pay close attention to this. >> what i learneded from gary hart what we see in washington, d.c. as standard right now,

actually was shocking in the late '70s, early '80s. we need to read the book and see if we can reform washington. stick around, "the rundown" starts right now. we start with breaking news out of south carolina this day. another southern black church caught fire and burned to the ground overnight. the seventh in the past ten days. nothing solid on it but one federal source telling the ap it was not arson. no matter what the cause, it's a heartbreaking loss for the mount zion ame church in greeleyville. a church that have been torched by the kkk almost exactly 20 years ago. we hope to get some answers at a press conference scheduled for 10:00 eastern. if it was not arson, it may have been lightning. as you see here look at this map. an active thunderstorm over greeleyville at