victory lap for obamacare. police investigating another fire at the black church. and republicans jokeckeying for the limited spots at the debate. and hillary clinton's e-mail open for your inspection this wednesday july 1st and this is now. >> spring training is about to come to end and real season is about to start. new jersey new jersey chris christie spending the first full day as the presidential campaign in new hampshire. >> he's got a terribly uphill slog. >> the best politicians are the ones that end up learning from their defts and setbacks. >> they have had credit downgrade after credit downgrade. and the unplacementemployment rate is higher than the national average. >> how does he recapture what was in 2012? >> and former governor's net worth is upwards of 22 million

dollars. >> strump a novelty candidate. >> trump is surging in ohio new hampshire, national. there is clearly real interest in his candidate. >> there is first tier in bush a second tier is trump and the third tier is everybody else. >> well that's sad if true. we are now one month to the first gop debate and this year is a little different. with the largest field tot modern era. debate organizers are only allowing the top ten candidates on the stage. while new jersey governor chris christie just entered the race this week he knows making the debate is the first hurdle facing him. this debate issue was front and center. >> i intend to be on the stage. and i intend to speak my mind and i'm sure that that will go for us. and after we win the nomination you are going to get to spend a whole week in cleveland, ohio to be able to watch us accept the

nomination next july. >> christie lagging behind eight others right now. and including donald trump and jeb bush. and the latest polls will determine who makes the top ten cut for the debate on august 6th. summer polling has never been more important. and joining me now msnbc political analyst michael steele and our own chuck todd moderator of course of "meet the press." thank you for being here. chuck this debate issue seems to be coming up for republicans in a way they didn't initially expect when they made these rules. >> no. and look i say this. i'm glad we don't have the first debate. i don't envy if position fox and cnn are in trying to figure it out. i think in hindsight they

probably both wish they had said we're doing two debates seven and seven and just not picking a tier at this point. i understand why they did it. you feel the need. you can't have -- we've done a ten candidate debate. the last two cycles. it is too many. and i get that that is is max you can do. but it has turned -- what it's doing is turning candidates into looking for odd ways to stay in the news. look at ted cruz and the simpsons thing. it's very cute and all this stuff but all of these campaigns have to start thinking about things like that just to keep them relevant in the news. or they may say crazy stuff to electrify themselves with just one more percent of the electorate to get from 13th to 8th place. >> the news organization doesn't have to lead -- >> the rnc could have.

and at the same time they didn't want to be the ones to get rid of candidates. i think it is very hard for a news organization to be the one at the beginning of a process to limit them. i mean this is a very -- we're all dealing with this. but we in the media. is it our job to tell which kant candidates are allowed on stage and which aren't? >> i agree with chuck. i've been saying for a lot of time now this is not the process. the process, divide it up two nights. open it up. don't even do the traditional debate format. allow a series f questions to candidate, no rebuttal. because you want to give aerve chance to speak. make that the first two debates and then you begin. >> self whittling at that point. >> do you think the gop should still try to change this now then? >> yes they should. and i've been talking to some folks inside the building and there is this idea to what chuck is saying that they have got to

do something. because fox is in an untenable situation. and if i'm the governor of ohio john casic and this is in my state and i'm not on the stage? do you think he's going to go quietly into that good niepgt? no. there are going to be ways to make noise that is not going to be good for the party. >> and to defend them here. they do want to try to help fix this. but they have 170 members with 170 different opinions how this should work. so this isn't exactly an easy thing for the chairman or his colleagues. >> let me ask. and then i want to get to jeb bush's money too because i want to talk about his bank account and the money he's been stacking. he's been doing quite well. but final question chuck, can you come back from being off that stage. you hear the candidates and their aids talk about it. you have to be on there. >> that's rick santorum. on all the early debates. so what did we do? i think we started this. we basically formatted the

debate from highest polling out. so if you were the lowest person polling you were on one of the ends which is almost not being in the debate. and he'll joke about it. yeah when i went in the polls i was barely on the stage. and he barely got any questions. and five months later he is the last man standing. so i don't think this is do or die. but it is harder for a kasich not to be in. i think some of these candidates have the ability to break back in. it is harder for a mainstream candidate trying to go the traditional establishment route a la kasich. i think that is harder for him. >> turning to jeb bush which is the other big news. $28 million since leaving the governor's mansion chuck. but he's been very careful how to manage that money, not to necessarily do what a tax lawyer will tell you to do which is

maximize everything. what do you think that tells us about the life he's been living and his interest in the office. >> he's been preparing to run for president since the day he left the governor's office. and you got -- it was fascinating yesterday. a tale of two disclosures. i know you are going to get to hillary e-mails. but you have jeb bush controlling his disclosure. and there are things he's not released, you know. but it's been on his terms so far. it is a blueprint for how you do this. he saw mitt romney screw up and watched how the clintons who could have controlled this on their own to make t like like you are extracting information rather than putting it out there. and he is controlling. i have to say he's unprepared on iraq. still doesn't know how to handle his brother and, you know. but on certain things. how he rolled out his e-mail and dealt with transparency issues you can tell he's been thinking about this a long time. >> mike do you agree?

and this idea that people come out of office now days and make so much. this is not someone who happens to be rich coming out of business. this is someone whose basically a public servant and then turns over an incredible amount of money for what? being an exgovernor. >> there is that. but there is also the family the family business such that it is. >> real estate developer before he did it. >> he wasn't poor going into the door. so a little more to maximize on the way out. but there are two things. one, chuck is right in terms of how the bush team has handled this aspect of their campaign. the the. he seems to be the bar everyone has to reach. certainly the clintons should be paying attention. probably not but they should be. and the money aspect of it. and you have folks why are they

really running? what book are they promoting? what is the end game here? and that is another part of this i think we're going to see more and more of as these disclosures come into play as the candidates roll up how they are making money. >> do you realize his net worth might be worth less than hillary's? it might be -- we won't know until we see the full personal financial disclosures. might be less than carly fiorina. it is stumgsassumption the bush family iswealthy. but only among to top five. >> apparently half the one percent is running for president. >> before we go i know you find this interesting. she says to the bostonian

herald i love what bernie is talking about. elizabeth warren saying i love what bernie is talking about. it is one thing to say i respect the guy, nice to have him in the race. this is a bit more. >> wouldn't it be weird if she didn't. disappointing her political followers -- >> [ inaudible ]. >> you think this is the bare minimum. >> i think this is the bare minimum. i think he's trying so hard to channel her. you would hope she would reward him with simply saying i like what he's saying. she's not necessarily -- i guess i would have surprised if it were anything else. >> that's why i ask. sometimes the answer disputes the premise of the question. we both know that. the chairman and chuck todd both stay. a brand new patch of hillary clinton e-mails. we're going right to the source with a clinton campaign official next. plus investigators trying to determine if a fire that burned down a historic black church in south carolina last night was a mistake, mother nature or

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the state department just released a fresh batch of about 3,000 pages of e-mails. the bulk show clinton managing day to day operations but also offer a few behind the scenes views how hillary was approaching the new administration. quote, i heard there is a cabinet meeting this a.m.? is there? can i go?

the aid replied we were welcomed to send a representative. i'm not sure if we have anyone going. and four days later she shows up to a canceled meeting. and she wrote this is the second time this has happened. what's up. and after elbow surgery she got a e-mail you are an all-star player and we need you more the long run. clinton's rely suggests she coveted at least some more direct conversation with obama's top advisers. id would like more one on one time to catch up in the next weeks. end quote. today the political world focused on the e-mails hillary hillary/barack relationship. and the e-mails are just the tip of the iceberg and we'll never get the full disclosure until hillary clinton releases her

secret server for an independent investigation. and joining me ho now is karen finney. thanks for joining us. >> great to be with you. >> what do you think about the idea that emerges in some of the e-mails that as a personal matter hillary clinton just wasn't that close with some of obama's top aides. >> this batch is from 2009 which is early on in the relationship. it was not that far from the election. this is the stuff we basically read about at the time so it is not surprising. what i think is most important about these e-mails is that they illustrate exactly what they said we've said and she said people would see. and that is a range of things. everything from wanting to order dinner to making sure john pedesta put on socks on a cold night, to wanting to get involved in helping a 10-year-old yemeni girl who was trying to get a divorce and was

successful at that. so lgbt rights. >> does that cut both ways? because you are in a disputed environment where critics would say, if every e-mail matches the messaging that you have been officially putting out, does that make it more suspicious with regard to what wasn't handed over? >> not at all. she handed over 55,000 pages. and this is a first batch of about 3,000. additionally the state department turned over i think 900 pages. mr. gowdy for his investigation. i think there is plenty there for people to go through. and i think they show a range of activity. but, you know, here is the thing, art. this really demonstrates how far afield the gowdy committee has really gotten. this is supposed to be. this was about a tragedy that happened in benghazi. instead we are not talking about that anymore. we're talking about e-mails from

2009 and 2011 that have nothing do with what happened that night. nor does it have anything to do with the things that the arb came up with. the review board that said here are the things -- >> and looking forward karen, do you think if secretary clinton is elected president, will she require everyone in government to simply use only a government e-mail address for government business. >> it is my understanding that since she left that is now the current policy. but if we want to have this race based on, you know what the e-mail policies and what are the retention policies we can have that conversation. >> i'm trying to have that conversation. what i'm asking you is what her rule would be. there are current laws that folks sometimes come in to the white house sweek seeking to change and others to hold. and reason this was a debate is she had a practice that was different than most government employees. >> that's not quite true. colin powell had a certainly

e-mail he used. and i think people forget that a secretary of state has multiple means of communicating classified information. cables, phone calls, meetings. so the assumption that there was classified information being communicated on this blackberry i think has been shown in these e-mails to be just simply untrue. now it is the case that after the fact some of the e-mails were deemed as confidential and held back by the state department. but at the time they were sent they were not classified and there was no way to know that would change in the future. >> just to repeat the question though. would she require government employees to use government e-mail for government business? >> i haven't had that specific conversation with her. but as i said in 2014 the rules i think president obama actually changed the rules. i don't expect that she would change those any differently. >> all right karen, thank you for making time for us today. we appreciate it. >> great to be with you. >> and back with me are michael steele and chuck todd.

your thoughts. >> look i think the problem that the clinton campaign has gotten themselves into with this was simply it was the fact that it took the benghazi committee to find out she had a private e-mail server. that's what i think has put them on the defensive. put them in reactive mode. had they been more forthcoming and had she been. that is a part of this even the obama white house didn't know. even a private e-mail address and let alone the server. and it allows for conspiracy theories. and it is this -- and this is a clinton habit, where you feel as if you have to extract information rather than the instinct being transparence first. >> well she released 55,000 e-mails. what about the 10,000 that weren't released? and that is the question. we don't know that because no one has independent access to the server that arguably technically should fall under

the purview of the government for purposes to determine whether or not there were e-mails related to national security and the business of secretary of state. that is the problem. a lot of this noise irrespective of the benghazi committee, gowdy or anybody else is the clinton's making. they control it. they ferment it. they can stop it. whatever. but they are in the mix here. and as long as they continue to sort of give off this impression that there is there there, you are going to have people talking investigations. you are going to have the conspiracy theories. you are going to have the suspicions about what hillary is all about. she's taken a hit in the polls on trust worthiness and honesty for a reason. that's the independent public deception she's. >> the only hit she's taken in the polls. hasn't impacted her favorable rating among democrats.

>> true. >> some of this is built in with the clinton brand. whether you may love about the clinton brand is bill clinton lost the honesty and trustworthy question and still was elected twice. so it isn't the be all and end all. we need a better system here to preserve. i think now we're creating a system where everybody coming into government the first thing they think about is how do i prevent my communications from getting in the hands of the public. that is not right. i kind of think there needs to be some system where once you get a job in government your electronic communication is here, period. this is what you do. there needs to be something for records preservation congressional oversight. and i know that sometimes it is hard to regulate because technology changes so fast. but we've got to come up with a better system. where it is not just willy-nilly, and secretary rice did this and -- >> [ inaudible ]. >> we need to standard iez this.

it is important for government oversight and nornt more the public. >> integrity of the process. >> yeah. >> and e-mail is not as central at that point in time. >> and colon powell. they don't say there was another secretary of state in between. >> and on the one hand we know a lot of people don't care about this. on the other hand there is years of freedom information act lawsuits and they can relate to more important things. >> i'm watching government officials actively figure how do i prevent this from becoming -- this is a problem. a systemic issue, liberal, conservative, democrat republican. and no we shouldn't be figuring that out. we should be figuring out how do we stars archiving this information for the public's good.

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greece's european allies rejected the new request for a bail out by greek prime minister in the wake of this epic failure this week. the first country ever to fail to repay the international monetary fund. the clock ran out tuesday the payment of $1.7 billion. a fast moving story. and joined from athens. claudio was greece basically trying to renegotiate the bail

out. secure something new. what happened? >> well there are two things that will happen here. first of all greece could just continue to reject the offer that is made by the european creditors. and will press on as the greek prime minister as tsipras said today on television with the referendum that the government has called to allow the greek people to decide whether to accept or not those conditions that the government has already said are humiliating and unacceptable. well the government thinks that by campaigning for the no vote. and let me tell you that in the polls the no vet is way ahead of the yes vote the government thinks that come monday they will have a better hand on the negotiating table with the european creditors. but will it? because the european finance ministers and creditors said look this is pretty much the deal. take it or leave it. so if it doesn't, if the government doesn't and the european creditors drop greece greece will find itself with a

very uncertain future economically speaking because it will not get the bail out from europe it badly needs. think last week when it said no to the conditions the tap ran dry and the banks closed and the greeks can only take $66 a day. today the banks had to open to hand a fraction to pensioners. so imagine this is a game -- the government is playing high stakes here. it's playing a hand where it thinks he has a better hand on the negotiating table but may well end one a very uncertain future here. >> high stakes and effects a lot of people's lives. claudio thank you. up next the naacp urgeing black churches to heed the fires in the last week. we have more next. you wouldn't haul a load without checking your clearance.

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today local frnls in south carolina are still investigating what caused last night's fire at mount zion church in greeleyville. >> we don't know what happened, what started the fire. we're going to yield that to the law enforcement officials to figure out what happened out there. but we just say right now that we'll continue to pray for that church. >> what we do know is that the fire was the seventh at the predominantly black church in the five southern states in just the last two weeks. whatever the cause the pastor said it was time to move forward while exhibiting the same kind of sentiment shown in the

murder. >> we'll have to move forward with whatever hand we're dealt. if someone did something like that i pray for them. i leave them in gods hands. >> we do know last night's fire started around 8:30 just hours after the naacp warned black churches to take precautions given recent events. joy, just in terms of the facts and what is known, what is the latest right now? >> well ari i can tell you that i spoke with the local fire chief here who said one of the reasons it is slow going trying to determine the cause of the fire is because the fire collapsed the roof of the structure, which makes investigating it much more difficult because of the amount of debris that is now filling the space where the church was. so that is one of the issues of course. and then of course there is the

anxiety that you hear coming from people who gathered here to lack at the church or to take pictures of it that are saying how could bit a coincidence, seven church fires in as many days. but officials, including federal officials being very cautious saying there is nothing overtly linking any case. of course there is very unusual. certainly not the norm was the phrase used to have this many church fires in short period of time. but here the investigation still ongoing. there were lightning strikes in this area on tuesday night but ari, the fire official i spoke with did note that no other structures burned that night. there were no other 911 calls of fires. just this church. >> and what is the approach here? because there is a line between vigilance, and some of these african american groups, a vigilance about the threat and making assumptions. which at ha this point in this incident we don't have the knowledge of the facts yet that

would confirm exactly how this fire started. >> well i think it is incumbent upon local churches to be vigilant with seven church fires in as many as two weeks it is not paranoia to be vigilant. because unfortunately we have a history in this region in the south of black churches being targeted because they are the center of the communities for african americans. and it is where the political power, the spiritual power, the power of the community lies for many african americans. >> you say that and that is of course something that the president spoke directly to in i they very moving eulogy so many americans saw last week. on this issue i want to play a little more from the greeleyville mayor talking about the point that was just made the centrality of the african american church. let's play that. >> the church is pretty much the

cornerstone of all the different communities over here. i mean everything revolves around the church. this is a christian community. so just to sit and see that happening is really devastating. it hurts everybody. >> your >> well the black church is the center of so many communities and therefore a symbol of not only spiritual renewal and sanctuary but also political progress. so one of the reasons these churches are magnets for such terror and hate is because they have put forth leadership to quell the rise of white terror. as well as white supremacy. as well as economic inequality and social injustice broadly. many of the leaders of african american communities have come from or through the church and as a result the spiritual and political elements together in tandem make them quite an attraction and appeal for those looking for ready symbols to light their fires of disgust or resentment of african american

communities. >> well, and professor elaborate on that. because one of the interesting points when we look at the leadership side the political side is that president obama was one of the first sort of most prominent african american leaders who didn't come directly out of the clergy. and yet he has been emphasizing this so much as the nation has been mourning these terrible attacks in the context of the mass murder and some of -- not this one we're reporting on today -- but some of these arsons. >> right. great point ari. when you think about henry highland garnett. and frederick douglas. 19th century figures. 20th century. bill gray jesse jackson. al sharpton. andrew cleaver. on and on when you think about reverend carolyn knight. bishop mckenzie. these are tremendous figures who have come from our community, many of them political figures who have been rooted in and supported by the african

american church. and the church has been a center of education, of social involvement, of political engagement. and as a result of that an easy target for those who would do the community harm. >> and joy, going back to you, looking forward tonight we are told there is a community meeting. we understand of course everyone there has been following it there locally. what else happens going forward? >> welke tell you ari that the churches in this community are definitely looking for their security. whatever the outcome of the investigation here at mount zion. a lot of people are very much on edge. the churches here obviously around the country feeling very nervous, feeling targeted. but again, a lot of actual support for what's happening in terms of the investigation. people being cautiously optimistic. as one person told me, they are hoping that this investigation finds out that it was due to lightning and not due to hate. and i think that you are seeing a lot of that kind of cautious optimism here in south carolina.

ari. >> thank you for your reporting from the field. and thank you all for your thoughts. and coming up a week after the supreme court upheld that key part of obama's signature law, the affordable care act, the president in tennessee taking a victory lap. but with public opinion still split, the president had more work to do. we'll explain next. benny's the oldest dog in the shelter. he needed help all day so i adopted him. when my back pain flared up, we both felt it. i tried tylenol but it was 6 pills a day. with aleve it's just two pills, all day. now i'm back! aleve. all day strong. start the interview with a firm handshake. ay,no! don't do that! try head & shoulders instant relief. it cools on contact, and also keeps you 100% flake free. try head & shoulders instant relief. for cooling relief in a snap.

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president obama went to tn to hail the affordable care act this afternoon. a victory lap of sorts following

last week's supreme court decision upholding his signature law. >> part of what i'm hoping is that with the supreme court case now behind us what we can do -- [ applause ] i'm hoping that what we do is now focus on how we can make it even better. >> as for the court, the american public seems to agree the new poll seems to suggest 63% made the right decision. for the law, while increases is much lower. the president hopes to change by continuing to stress its positive impact. >> improves quality of life. improves quality of care. cuts costs which is good for our economy, good for patients. and good for america. so i'm feeling pretty good about how healthcare is going. >> and joining the panel now.

msnbc national reporter and from the "new york times," and back with us the chairman himself michael steele. it was not a political speech in the main. i'm going to play a little more sound from it where the president really did reach out. he does want people to move on. but i want to begin with a political point, which is how many times do republicans have to lose on this issue at the ballot box, at the court before they realize that the way they prosecuted this case is a loser. >> well i think we got two or three more losses in it. we've got a little bit more to go here on this. >> why? >> this does not -- can we just all get this out of our system and understand. this does not end until there is a republican congress a republican senate and a republican president at which point they do not repeal obamacare. why? because you will have more and more americans in play on the healthcare side. so the pressure is going to mount from this point forward to actually fix the system and

those aspects of it that are broken or don't work as well. i take the president's point about, you know, what he thinks it does. the jury is still out on cost. the jury is still out on the impact overall and economy and jobs and things like that. that is part of the natural organic growth of a system like this that is growing into what we hope will be a good healthcare system. what republicans are still going to fight this on a number of fronts. and you will see more and more pieces of legislation ari over this coming year that addresses some of those points. >> one point on that this may surprise you. but i was in washington last week and spoke to republicans official who strike a different tone off the record than on the record. i don't know if you have ever seen that tendency in politics. but several were saying we really hope the court leaves this as is. we don't want to own the bag. we don't want to own the problem. and in that sense they got their

issue. now i want to play the president's, if this was a victory party today he wanted to invite republicans to it. here he is talking about mitt romney. >> look. i didn't mind stealing ideas from mitt romney. you know i -- you know the bottom line is what works. what works? and if republican legislators have better ideas, you know, they should present them. but they have to be realistic. >> pragmatist in chief. >> chief justice roberts also gave credit to mitt romney and his opinion. and also looked a what happened in massachusetts and trying to evaluate what exactly the affordable care act was intended to do. i think it is pretty clear that until these ideas had obama written on them they were not so controversial. it involves privacy insurance

and not single payor. and it is going to be interesting when he leaves office in terms of the medicaid expansion which is the missing piece. when it is no longer political for republicans, where there be an opening for them to say we're harming so many people by not accepting the medicaid expansion. >> there is a reason why health insurance stocks went up on friday. that is not something bernie sanders is celebrating. that is something in people of business, yes the business of healthcare but people in business profits, like. >> it turns out surprisingly if you give millions of people private health it is good for health insurers or their bottom lines. >> we do analysis here. >> it's good for them to an extent. i think politically to the extent that opposition to the aca is bound up with opposition to his presidency to obama himself, to other things that he's done as president. i think once he's gone from the

scene as president, it changes the game. now if on the other hand it is bound up with cost of premiums and those cause go up and the obama administration bet on cost is not met and they lose it is a different ball game. >> empirical piece, how does this work. political piece, do i like whose benefitting from it. but there is also a legitimacy piece and i think the fact that the court twice with john roberts has said this law is legitimate. if you don't like it it is not because this is some power grab that no president is ever allowed to do. it is a good faith disagreement. you can go out and win elections. i do think it plays a difference in the long run. let's play more of the president and what i've also tried to do is to say to the republican party, open your hearts. and think about the people here

in tennessee who are working hard, are struggling. and just need a little bit of help. and if we give them that help it is going to pay off over the long-term. >> look, i think at the point at which the affordable care act is an ab strxabstraction, it becomes easier for court or people on the stoump undermine. at the point in which people are actually receiving healthcare and not getting discriminated for preexisting conditions and getting help with premiums and coverage for preventive care they weren't before. it's much harder to take that away. and the more the president spends time talking about that the more effective it is going to be. then it is going to be get the government out of my obamacare. >> chaz scary sentiment but a true one. you now accept the very thing you don't want. and then you look at that same government that is providing and well we don't need you to be involved. but between now and that point

there are fights ahead of us. there is still a distrust. and i think that poll reflects it 47/46 or whatever the number. >> 47/44. >> and that is going to be something that is going to feed the conservative bent against this. and i think -- to your point i think it also becomes even more interesting if hillary wins and she's sitting with this on her plate how conservatives in the congress and senate work with her to fix it. >> and it is also a weird point that for all the powers of the presidency it sounds crazy to say this the opponents of this plan, of this program, have always been much better at attacking it than its supporters have in supporting it or defending it. >> i think opposition is clear and brings clarity. even moments of clarity. thank you all for joining. coming up the u.s. women's soccer team now one win from taking the world cup trophy. we have more on last night's big

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if your boss stops by, you act like you're working. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. in last night's game against number one ranked germany, u.s. women's soccer got one step closer to winning the world cup trophy. >> they did a great job. they just played their hearts out. guts tonight and i'm so so pleased for them. >> playing its best game of the tournament the u.s. scored 2-0 victory and clinched a spot in the world cup finals. >> it is a dream come true. this is what we train for. everything. >> after a lucky break and germany missing a penalty kick, kaptcaptain karly lloyd scored the

team's first goal. later followed up by kelly o'hara. and it's been six years since the u.s. women's team has won the world cup. but all of that could change sunday when they face either england or japan in the final game. >> we didn't come here to make the final. we came here to win it. so we have to go after it next game. >> the ed show starts now. good evening, americans and welcome to the "ed show" live from detroit lakes, minnesota. let's get to work. >> tonight tough new rule. >> governor of california signed into law one of the toughest vaccine bills in the country. >> protesters made it clear they will fight this decision. >> plus notorious and noteworthy. >> donald trump is now in second place. >> another presidential candidate will be making a stop in wisconsin. the senator from vermont is expe