there's an arsenal of goods supporting the democrats and their cash. >> they're selling lindsey graham crackers. and also scott walkers. >> how will hillary clinton answer? >> barbecue fans may be interested in this kuzy. the campaign is selling the

chillary clinton koozy packs. >> check out our stillary clinton moon shine. so then when you're blind, drunk and angry you can pick up a killary clinton murder kit. >> good morning, it's thursday july 2nd. guess what's coming? july 4th. we're almost here. we have phil mattingly with us president of the national action network. reverend al sharpton. how is that "way too early" schedule? >> i'm still struggling with the morning hours. >> you actually -- >> how are you doing? >> you'll never stop struggling with that. joining us in washington senior political editor and white house correspondent for the huffington post sam stein and msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee michael

steel. we're going to start with bernie sanders. first, front page of most of the papers, they're looking at whether or not air fairs have been you know jacked up unfairly. my answer is yes. i don't know. we'll see. but the justice department is taking a look. we'll have more on that. they seem high. and then there was a heartbreaker for england. >> what happened? >> semifinal of the women's world cup. a tie game. we're in extra time here. this is an own goal. >> no. no. no. >> that wins the game for japan. laura basset is a great player for england. was trying to cleert ball back to her own goalkeeper instead kicked it into her own goal. >> oh, that's a bad day. >> the face of agony. the game was over. there was one minute left in the game. and her coach handled it really well after the game saying how valuable she was and hero and leader she had been. this one is going to haunt her. >> i was stourpd see japan celebrate the goal.

to be honest. there is an unspoken etiquette. you take it. obviously, they're excited. they deserve to be in the final. but you could see they're very motional right. there heartwrenching to see what happened. >> so japan plays the u.s. on sunday now. >> yeah. >> that would have been the u.s. andening glanld. >> so it's a rematch now on sunday of last women's world cup final. japan and the united states. >> that was as far as any england's team had gotten. they weren't supposed to be there. they made the run. it's not supposed to happen like that. >> painful way for it to end that way. >> okay. let's get to politics and we have a little record breaking going on for bernie sanders. senator bernie sanders broke a record for this cycle with a massive crowd. look at that in madison, wisconsin, last night. sanlders talked about the turnout and how he plans to counter all the money his opponents are raising. >> in case you haven't noticed, a lot of people are here.

tonight we have made a little bit of history. you may know after some 25 candidates running for president of the united states but tonight, we have more people at a meeting for a candidate for president of the united states than any other candidate has had in 2016. thank you. i am more than aware that my opponents will be able to outspend us. they have billionaire backers. they have super pacs. they have a lot of millionaire friends. but we're going to win this election. if we develop the grassroots national movement that i know we can can, at the end of the day, they may have the money but we have the people. and when the people stand together we can win. >> michael steel, on the republican side you guys have

had candidates who draw huge crowds. we've seen that before. but put on your objective hat. what do you think is going -- who is this guy? what's his role here? >> i think in a lot of respects bernie is channeling elizabeth warren for a lot of disaffected progressives in the democratic party who, you know feel they have a champion who is going to be able to authentically articulate what their concerns are and the direction they'd like to see the country go. now does bernie sanders wind up beating hillary clinton? i don't think so. but he puts a lot of pressure on her to come to his table much more than he's going to be going to hers and having the conversation she wants to have. so out of the box, bernie's laid down some impressive markers, not just in terms of the number of people who show up but the consistency of message and the relatability of that message to every day voters out there. so it's going to be a

fascinating challenge for hillary as this thing goes into the debate stanl whichge. >> michael used the word awe then 'tis-- authenticity. he has been preaching inequality for more than a year. that was a very friendly crowd. madison, wisconsin, is home of the bernie sanders message. if you look at the polls, he trails by a great number. he has to be reckoned with in this race. >> he has to be reckoned with and he personifies this whole movement around income inequality. when you look at from occupy going forward, this movement around economic issues has grown. and he's been a part of it in many ways. he was a forerunner of it. so when you look at the crowd in wisconsin where you had walker go against labor, where you had a strong occupy movement it should be expected.

i think in the contrast, when you look at bernie sanders and donald trump on the other side i ran in '04, you think about what is the end goal? sanders' end goal is whether i win or not, whether i beat hillary or not is to build and give legitimacy on a presidential level to the issues he's concerned about. >> yeah. >> and i think that's what he's committed for. i ran. i knew i wouldn't beat george bush. i wanted to put the issues out. there i it this problem on brother steele's side is there is no end game for trump. he is the end game. so if you see the contrast between the guy representing a cause bigger than him drawing crowds and a guy that is the cause that may harm the cause of his party, i think that's the early story of what we're looking at in 2016. >> and, phil does he put some pressure, despite that wide margin, on hillary clinton's message at least, that she has to co-op some of what he said. >> there are a lot of people that think because of elizabeth

warren that hillary clin moved left. i don't know that she moved left so much as she's embraced talking about the issues that the left is most concerned about. 5,000 people at one rally, 10,000 yesterday. that's a lochlt it's the same day that hillary clinton announced she raised $45 million. bernie sanders had $8 million. there's people and there is excitement and then campaign infrastructure and ability to turn out votes. how do you transfer that? hillary clinton has a infrastructure and team that can transfer that. can he turn that into people that will vote? >> sam stein, if you were part of hillary clinton's team, what are you looking at here? what are you tapping from it? how do you not when 10,000 people show up to listen to what he has to say and if you look at that crowd, it looks like a really good hardy people who really want something to change in this country.

>> i had more faith in sharpton 2004 than al sharpton had. i thought he was going to win that one. >> you are a fine young man. >> i still have the campaign signs in my office. don't worry. there is a huge swath of democratic voters who over the past eight years have been generally supportive of what president obama has done but feel he has essentially given way too much i had logically to the republicans in hopes for legislative compromise and legislative productivity. they wanted him to go further on things like health care reform funding against -- fighting back against citizens united. so when bernie comes out and says these things, he gets incredible applause. to the extent it affects hillary clinton, i think it's more about style than substance. i think hillary clinton doesn't get credit on the domestic front for being as progressive as she

has been. but what the people -- what democrats are really worried about hillary clinton is she'll be way too accommodating to republicans, to the rest of washington, for legislative progress than bernie sanders would be. so i think when you ask what kind of effect he'll have on hillary clinton, i think she becomes a more combative politician. a less accommodating politician. i think it's more stylistic and less substantive. >> well as to senator sanders' point about money, hillary clinton is reporting record breaking fund-raising numbers. the clinton campaign says it will report gathering $45 million in the primary election fund than she announced in april. that outpaces the record set by president obama for primary donations in the first month of the 2012 re-election campaign. also a new report suggests that vice president joe biden will join the race. democratic fund-raiser john cooper was an early supporter of president obama's 2008 bid says biden is leaning towards launching a campaign next month. the latest national poll shows

the vice president moving past bernie sanders into second place, however, both still trail hillary clinton by more than 40 points. how many folks here think biden will jump in? i do. i mean i know this person thinks he is. his sons have spoken up about it. i think he's going to do it. that's my gut. you don't think so? >> i would bet no. >> really? >> at this stage. what do you think, phil? >> i think there's concern about this being his last act and him losing a primary by 40 or 50 points in the wake of what he's done as vice president. i think there is a very real push inside his family and team to get in. i don't know that they see the window. he's as good as any politician in the world. he won't hop in on something if he doesn't see a window or a pathway forward. i don't know that they've seen hillary's team falter where the win very clear right now. >> interesting. >> he's not a dreamy kind of guy. i think that unless he sees a

win tend of it all, i think the people around him want to run. but do i want to risk my legacy going out that far down or do i have a real shot? i think he'll make that call. >> michael steele? >> it's not just that. it's also okay so how weak is hillary, ultimately. what baggage weighs her down to the point where the party naturally comes to the vice president to say we need you to come into this race to salvage it. they're not going to turn to martin o'malley. they're not going to turn to bernie sanders. i think that you're seeing more talk about joe being ready in case all the stuff around hillary just really weighs down that campaign that he can step into this. i don't think he jumps in it right out of the box though. >> we know his family, including his late son beau was encouraging him to run a little bit. you have to believe there is some part of joe biden saying women, what about me? all these months it was

presumed and assumed it is being handed to hillary clinton. i'm the vice president of the states here. >> stranger things have happened. >> i would think. >> even if you say, no you want to say but don't forget me. >> let's move to the story mika is talking about. the justice department is investigating something a lot of americans have long been suspicious of, airline ticket prices. officials familiar with the investigation say the question is whether some airlines have been cluedolluding to limit seat capacity. all the doj told nbc news on the record is "we're investigating possible unlawful coordination by some airlines." but investigative source saz they're looking into how often airline executives have publicly used the word discipline in industry term for limiting flights and seats. meanwhile, the airline's trade group released a statement that says "we're confident the justice department will find what we know to be true. our members compete vigorously every day and the traveling

public is the beneficiary." a series of mergers starting in 2008 means four airlines control more than 80% of seats in the u.s. market. since then, domestic airfare has risen 13% leading to record profits. as for the investigation, united airlines and delta both say they've been told they're being investigated and they're cooperating fully. >> well they seem high. so we'll see what happens with. that let's turn to south carolina where governor nicky haley is saying the fire at a historic black church north of charleston tuesday night was the result of a lightning strike. en that arsnd that arson is not suspected. >> there were four lightning strikes and one hit the steep will of the church. >> so there is no reason to believe -- >> absolutely none no. >> however, a source close to the investigation tells nbc news that they couldn't confirm that lightning hit the church saying "i don't know where she got that information from." mt. zion ame is the seventh fire

at a black church in the south in the wake of the charleston church shooting. five were accidents and one at mt. zion remains under investigation. so far investigators say there is no indication that the fires being connected or racism being behind them. reverend al big picture this for us. >> i it this problem with this seven fires since what happened in a church in charleston, anyone would say, wait a minute. what's going on here? we've had a history of churches being targeted. but i think what is troublesome about this is for the governor to say absolutely no misdeed here absolutely nothing. when law enforcement is saying we haven't got threaten yet. she only adds fuel to the fire. i think that she ought to let the investigation take its course. because now you have everyone suspect on why are you concluding something that law enforcement hasn't finished

particularly when you see more than one. so i think that you're right. i think she could have said -- to say absolutely what? an investigation is not over. you have the fires going around the country. i think that clearly there is the reason for people to look at this and the history of why we're very suspicious. the black church has always been a target. let's not act like this is paranoia here. >> michael steele your thoughts? >> i think the governor is relying on the fire investigation as opposed to a police investigation. so i suspect that her staff has been told that their information so far indicates that this was not arson. and that started, that report actually started, mika a few days ago. it's not something that was suddenly on the table. i think she's probably gotten the final confirmation from the fire authorities that this was a lightning strike. but i agree with the reverend. you want this whole thing to be

complete. the sensibilities are too heightened right now to come out with anything definitive until can you line up every piece of the argument to display and show exactly what happened. >> you want to know perhaps the craziest part of the story is this raid of churches burning is not unusual. there are statistics from the national fire protection association from 2007 to 2011 31 churches burned per week. 31 per week. and the overwhelming majority of those were not by arsonists. >> the irony is this exact church 20 years ago was burned by the kkk and was part of a successful lawsuit that they got and then president clinton went down for the reopening of this same church that's in question here. so that's why a lot of attention is focused on it. >> certainly a lot to look at there. again this is a big problem in this country. let's move on israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu is warning that isis is closing in on the country's borders after a series of coordinated attacks in

egypt. the border crossings with gaza and egypt are closed following the attacks. according to the associated press, egyptian officials say more than 6 o soldiers and four civilians were killed in the attacks. only 17 soldiers were killed is what egypt says. they're going to crack down on islamic extremists and special forces killed nine members of the muslim brotherhood who were fugitives. they were murdered in cold blood. meanwhile, in tunisia, 12 people have been detained in connection to last week's massacre. isis claimed responsibility for that attack. what are we seeing right now with isis? >> you're seeing the group itself showing they have the capability to operate in multiple countries in different ways. in tunisia, inspiring people to carry out the attacks and others setting up infrastructure in countries where there is no state security or state

infrastructure. egypt is fighting a insurgency for two years. the egyptian president ran on a campaign of security and stain built. and two years into it, the country is see seeing the worst wave of terrorism in the modern history. they have the top prosecutor killed in a car attack earlier this week and this account yesterday of 60 soldiers being killed. he is under a tremendous amount of pressure. the flip side is human rights organizations saying the egyptian government is overreaching with dissent and human rights and freedom. it's worse on both sides. >> thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," david axelrod and chris matthews join the conversation. plus heightened alert across the country for the holiday weekend. we're joined by a special agent in charge of joint fbi/nypd terrorism task force. but first, bill karins with a check on the july 4th forecast. >> it's looking fantastic for so many people for your fireworks

on saturday and for your travel. we go through our friday and saturday. overnight in missouri thunderstorms caused a lot of problems in the area. we had one report of tornado with this dramatic picture. you can see from the aerial helicopter. you notice the damage being done there at the ground. look at the base of that. thankfully no injuries, no fatalities with that. that same system overnight produced epic amounts of rain. 2 to 4 inches in a short period of time and flash flooding is a huge problem in the area. let me show you pictures in from ksdk. 50 to 60 people were rescued overnight in the middle of the night from a mobile home park. all these people are safe. but their evenings were interrupted. their homes flooded out. again, auto to again, 50 to 60 people. let's show you the forecast. that is the heavy rain that caused that flash flooding. some moved over areas of tennessee and kentucky. that is where the active weather is the next couple days.

today, a few strong storms. oklahoma and a line eastward through tennessee. a fantastic day through the great lakes and the northeast. not too bad in the southeast. just your typical scattered storms. on friday, a really any nice travel day. i think the airports will be good. most of the highways, not too many problems. a few thunderstorms there from oklahoma city through arkansas into atlanta. and then for your fourth of july, i think the best news is that whatever storms do form should be pretty much overwith by the time we get through your fireworks forecast. so we should be rain free and most of your picnic and beach and lake plans will be fantastic. and finally, macy's fireworks in new york city couldn't be any better. 7 o's, rain free low humidity. that is a nice forecast. we leave with you a shot of good old new york city. big apple getting ready for your fourth. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ turn around ♪ ♪ every now and then i get a little bit hungry ♪ ♪ and there's nothing good around ♪ ♪ turn around, barry ♪ ♪ i finally found the right snack ♪ [ female

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live look there at new york city. police officers across the country on high alert as americans prepare to celebrate the fourth of july this weekend.

it comes as the fbi department of homeland security and national counter-terrorism center warn about the height ened threat of homegrown terror attacks from isis sympathizers. it also is the holy muslim holiday of ramadan and a top leader of isis is urging followers to make it a month of calamity for the infidels. there there be a advise i will increase in security in the nation's capital which is preparing for fourth of july events on the national mall and final prepz are underway in new york city for the annual fireworks show on the east river. special forces style units will be ready to go within minutes if needed. the nypd's chief of counter tafism gave savannah guj are i a behind the scenes look at the city's security preparations. ifrz officers will do everything to keep the city safe. >> we're seeing the security that can make people feel better but can also make them feel more afraid. what is your message for people? >> we want to assure them they can come and enjoy the fireworks

and celebrate the country and be secure and confident in the police department and the other agency that's are going to police this event. >> officials though also stressing they are not aware of the specific or credible threat at this time. joining us now, former assistant special agent in charge of the joint fbi/nypd terrorism task force and nbc contributor, good to see you. we've seen the warnings since 9/11. feels like we had several of those s this more serious than the other ones we received? >> this one seems to be ramped up a notch. you have several factors kind of all coming into play this week. number one, fourth of july. it's a uniquely american holiday. it stands for freedom and diversity and inclusion and all the things that isis hates. they would love to attack us on our holiday. you also have the month of ramadan which there is always an uptick in this chatter this call to arms for somebody to reach out and do something. so you got these things

unfolding at the same time. plus last week we saw the coordinate add tacks in tunisia, france, kuwait and then recently in egypt. so the isis threat is not just in iraq and syria. it's spreading. >> right. >> so you look at these peripheral and vital potential kind of signs that could lead to this weekend. what are you hearing when you read between the lines in reports like this about something that makes you think that there is actually something being planned? >> i think there is lots of fragments of information. that makes it difficult for them to put the puzzle pieces together. you get hints about something about a fourth of july or some type of a celebration. but you don't have enough specifics to say it's going to be on this place or this exact time. so that's why you stand up at these command posts. you have teams ready. in anticipation that something might happen. but again, you know new york and l.a. and chalk and the big cities, they're ready for this. the joint terrorism task force

is out there and full of effect with getting sources and following people around. so far we've been so good. >> right. >> earlier this week he likened it to the blinking red moment of pre-9/11 what is going on now. is that scare tactics? are we really at that point? when there is no specific credible threat, i'm trying to figure out in reporting, what is going on behind the scenes that everybody is looking at that makes him think that? >> the big game changer, especially with isis is the social media and their ability to reach out and touch these young people in their homes and the u.s. and mobilize individuals that have never even traveled outside to the united states. and all of a sudden they're carrying the isis flag and wanting to carry out these attacks. so we've seen it doesn't take mass casualty to really you

know, have an infecteffect. you have one person that carries out an attack on a fireworks display, isis claims credit and they get the psychological victory. >> all right. let's take a look at some of the other morning papers. the "baltimore sun," half way through the year and the homicide count in that city now stands at 144. that is a 48% increase over last year. more than half of those homicides have happened in the past two months. coinciding with the unrest in the wake of the freddie gray case. baltimore mayor stephanie recallings-blake calls it disheartening saying the member and women of the police department are working very hard every day but the level of violence we see is unacceptable. before we move on reverend al baltimore, we really need to frame that city and take a look at what is happening there. it's gotten worse, not better. and the news from the medical examiner is not boding well for more potential unrest. fair to say? >> fair to say. and i think that the mayor is

correct. the level of violence has to be dealt with. there was some rules on what police were doing. that does not in any way insight violence. >> but it may be hampered by the unrest and the emotional reprecushions. >> i think that police have to do their job. i think at the same time you've got to have a community that is committed against violence one to another. i think the mayor is absolutely right. we have to deal with the inside of the community of this kind of crime against one another as aggressively as we do when we fight against what we feel is wrong policing. >> michael steele obviously you have baltimore ties. these numbers seem out of control. >> yeah the particular spike is a little bit troubling. i think the mayor and her team working with the police officers really need to delve into the community and get a handle on what that is. what is motivating that? i think the reverend is on point

there in terms of the community taking control and hold of this and conjunction with the police. can you not have this separation where the community is moving in one direction and the police moving in another. you've got more aspects of this case the freddie gay case is going to unfold. the autopsy reports trial of the officers et cetera. there is a lot more that requires the mayors city and police to come together to put a stamp on these -- on this violent outbreak. >> let's take a look at usa today. episcopalians agreed to allowed same-sex marriage in their churches. the vote passed by an overwhelming margin. same-sex weddings will be allowed after november 1st. >> "los angeles times," officials in drought stricken california are hailing a wear the conservation record that was

set in may. they say residential water use dropped by 29% compared to may of 2013. officials sat amount of rain that month may be part of the reason for the decrease. they believe the number shows more residents are doing their part including taking shorter showers and buying water efficient appliances. >> a 68-year-old man was bitten multiple times by a shark making this the seventh attack on the north carolina coast in less than a movement the man suffered wounds to his lower leg, hip and rib cage as he tried to fight off the shark. the witnesses say it was seven feet long. the man was treated on the beach for about 20 minutes until he was stabilized and later flown for further medical treatment. >> all right. don borelli, thank you for coming on. we go back to wisconsin and the historic massive crowd that senator bernie sanders drew last night. we'll hear directly interest from his very passionate supporters straight ahead on "morning joe."

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joining us for the must read opinion pages, msnbc contributor and associate professor at columbia university of school and public affairs, dorian warren. sanders broke a record for this presidential cycle holding the largest event yet in madison, wisconsin, last night.

msnbc reporter alex seitzwall was there and talked to some of his biggest supporters. >> reporter: 5,000 in burlington. 5,000 in denver. $3,000 in minneapolis. and in madison, wisconsin, almost 10,000 people. >> tonight we have made a little bit of history. we have more people at a meeting for a candidate for president of the united states than any other candidate has had. >> i've been very frustrated and bernie has that -- is like the lone wolf out there, you know speaking for people who don't have a voice. >> huge enthusiastic crowds meet vermont's bernie sanders wherever he takes his unlikely presidential campaign. >> me and bernie it's -- we're direct parallels. >> as far as i'm concerned, he's the only person that cares about the middle class. >> sanders' campaign reports 200,000 people chipped in mostly through small online

donations, averaging just $37 apiece. that is at least $8 million so far, not bad for a self-described democratic socialist from vermont. >> i think he can beat hillary clinton. >> reporter: even democrats admit he may not be the best shot at the white house. just 2% say sanders' best position to beat a republican in the 2016 general election according to a new cnn poll. >> i'm a hillary clinton fan, too. >> reporter: but it's early in the race and long term doubts have not slowed his momentum so far. >> it will be a tough road. i think there was a candidate eight years ago that weren't sure would beat hillary either but did he. >> there you go. that may be a little lofty. but he is having impact on this race when you look at the amount of money he is raising, the crowds he's drawing. but you do take it with a grain of salt. there was a cnn poll out yesterday that shows hillary clinton up 43 points on him and raising $45 million herself just in campaign funds.

>> the crowd are striking relative to both crowds that hillary clinton campaign events martin o'malley campaign events and the republican side. it is early in the primary. i think competitive primaries are good for both parties and for voters. so in some ways this momentum for hillary, you better believe that the clinton campaign is paying attention to what he is saying and why crowds are turning out. >> i'm interested to see when the clinton campaign if they ever feel like they need to respond and engage. right now they're above it. and obviously there will be debates so that will be natural. >> is there a point where we see a lot of really negative bernie sanders stories start to slip out because people are starting to slide opposition research across or hillary directly attack one of his positions when she's on the campaign trail. i don't think they see the need for it now. if they do that is really interesting. >> that could backfire. >> absolutely. >> i think that when you start attacking someone who is perceived as the face of a movement, because let's remember we're not dealing with the

charisma of bernie sanders. we're dealing with the popularism that he represents. and whether you start attacking that you may even generate more of a cry. and i don't know if i was in the clinton camp or senior adviser that i would wanted the $45 million to come out the day he draws 10,000 people talking against money. this might have been the wrong day to brag about i'm the big money person when he's saying i'm not the money person and -- >> i feel yes to that and the bigger concern is i don't think they would be so shortsighted as to attack him, but i do see the smirking and the smiling like ha, ha. come on. really? like they don't take him seriously. i think that could be a -- >> that's a story before. >> yeah. >> i see mccarthy more than i see barack obama. gene mccarthy became the face of the anti-war movement when i was a kid.

he didn't need to win. but lyndon johnson went for re-election. i'm not saying that hillary clinton pulls out. but bernie reminds me of mccarthy. >> yep. >> it is tough for hillary clinton to attack his message when she is using so much of his message. >> yeah, i don't think they can do that. >> the oversight power of wall street. >> bernie sanders represents the elizabeth warren wing. an attack on sanders is an attack on elizabeth warren. >> there you go. >> they're out to defeat even more so than they already have. and you worry about bringing elizabeth warren out who said she is not committed to anybody and maysanders. i don't think it will be an overt attack. there are stories and issues you'll see float out at some point. they'll go after him on immigration or guns or issues they feel like there is a difference. >> let's fit in a must read op-ed from the "washington post."

dana millbank writing about president obama, "obama regains the momentum." the good tidings of the past week have been arguably more luck than achievemen ent. when you earn political capital as george w. bush likes to say, you spend it. this is why it was shrewed of the surging obama to be in the rose garden wednesday morning demanding new action from congress on cuba. there was a spring in the president's step if not a swagger as he merged from the oval office trailed by vice president biden. momentum is everything in politics. for the moment, obama has it again." sam stein, what does last week for president obama mean not for last week but going forward for the next two years, year and a half? >> well, i mean it's tough to see how it gets better for him than the last week. and it's tough to see what other issues he has to push. obviously, trade is not done. he's got to pass the extra

agreement. he that's the authority to do it. so that will probably get done. but on the other big ticket items like immigration reform no one expects that to pass in the next year and a half. so if you look at the landscape, there are more potholes than anything else. we have a government shutdown potentially at the end of this september that he's got to navigate. we have a debt ceiling crisis a highway trust fund that will run out in some point of time and iran nuclear deal that will come at some point in the very near future. he has a lot of momentum. it's just likeght? you throw the next pitcher out. there everything can go to hell. you know this administration does have a lot to handle the next couple of weeks and months. >> all right. still ahead, david axelrod and chris matthews look at which 2016 hopefuls have momentum after this week. and up next we know what caused the deadly transasia plane crash in february. we'll tell what you that was. keep it right here on "morning joe."

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46 past the hour. we're going to take a look at the morning papers. the associated press, there is officially a new superintendent at the maximum security prison the two inmates escaped from earlier this month. the previous warden was placed on paid leave along with 11 other employees. the clinton correctional facilty has also put in place a range of new security measures. according to the new york department of corrections and community services those measures include more overnight staffing increase in sections of cells and cat walks, and new case in tunnels under the prison. >> and less hamburger meat. >> we'll be hearing more about that. >> the usa today, 36 people are dead after a ferry with 173

people onboard capsized in the philippines. crews still searching for 19 people. more than 100 have been rescued. the coast guard says the ferry was experiencing strong waves at the time. survivors say that the ferry quickly rose from the water before it flipped over and began to sink. >> nbc news.com investigators have determined the cause of the deadly transasia plane crash in taiwan in february. the moments before the crash captured on dash cam video and now taiwan's aviation safety council is disclosing that the captain of the plane mistakenly switched off its only functioning engine before it crashed just minutes after takeoff killing 43 people. the captain is heard saying i pulled back the wrong side throttle. eight seconds before the plane crashed. >> still one of the most unbelievable pieces of video i've ever seen. from "the new york daily news," the co-ceo's of whole foods are investigating after they found

customers were routinely overcharged on prepackaged items since 2010. straight up, we made some mistakes. we want to own that and tell wlau we're doing about it. >> it's understandable sometimes when the mistakes are made the they're inadvertent. they do happen because it's a hands on approach to bringing ut fresh food. >> we're doing a number of things. most importantly we're going to increase our training in our new york stores and around the country because we want to be perfect in this area. we don't want there telephoner be any mistakes. >> the company says it will also use a third party auditor to make sure that items are weighed correctly. >> that is a good apology. >> a good start. >> everything is marked up in that store. >> they have to make some changes. let's go to nbc news.com. there is a new name for one of new york city's iconic buildings. 30 rockefeller plaza is now called the comcast building. and it's comcastic, isn't it? the roof toop signs replace the

ge initial and as the company's logo and nbc peacock. it is the first time the iconic symbol appears on top of the network's headquarters. this happened 74 years to the day since the building was home to the first commercial television broadcast. comcast is the parent company of nbc news and msnbc. >> coming up forget about all the debates and politics, we have the biggest one of all. whether peas belong in good whack mole yes. >> of course not. >> reverend al? >> peas? >> unamerican. >> what? >> come on. >> no. noguacamole. come on. >> you're better than. that. >> i'm not sure where this comes from but i'm ready to join in. the heated debate is next on mrnlg. ousand "morning joe." three hundred eleven people in this city. and only one me. ♪

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beautiful picture. >> gorgeous. >> good looking day down there. >> nice morning. >> i feel like we buried the leads this morning. >> we have? >> 54 minutes into the show and we're just now getting to the guacamole story. something democrats and republicans republicans can agree on and that is gooduacamoleguacamole. there was a "new york times" recipe for guacamole for spring

peas calling it a radical move. it is completely obvious after you taste it. president obama even weighed in on this one when asked about it during a twitter chat writing, respect "the new york times" but not buying peas in guaq. onions car lick hot peppers, classic. on the other side of the aisle, jeb bush agreed with president obama. he tweeted a simple quote, you don't put peas in guacamole. most of america agrees with jeb bush and president obama. even the "dallas morning news" front page responds to the "new york times" recipe with an "oh, pea." >> i'm not doing it. this is too -- >> i would have to go with the unity team with the president and mr. wanna be president. >> correct. >> i love slow news weeks. shortened holiday week.

there is primarily started by reporters in new york who had very little to do yesterday. the reporter actually asked president obama. >> why are you dodging this question? >> because there's no doubt where i stand. as an ohioan and true midwestern american, no peas. >> coming up at the top of the hour -- >> whoa. we have our guy. >> we have one that has an opinion. >> i figured i would ask donald trump what his opinion is on guacamole guacamole. he said he would be all in for peas. >> yes peas are delicious and healthy. >> all right. >> don't you feel that's nasty? >> i have to stop this. >> what do you think? you love guacamole. >> it has to be smooth though. >> the local news circa 1979. we should do an awkward chuckle and go to break, what do you think? there you go willie. coming up at the top of the hour, chris matthews and david axelrod join the conversation and icesis is behind another wave

of violence in egypt. we'll talk about how to combat the terror group's growing footprint. and andrew cuomo breaks his silence after new york city mayor bill diblasio criticized him in a scathing interview. will the governor take the high road or does he hit back? you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ was created using digital models and real world location-based specs that taught it how to follow the wind. so while the ones on the left are waiting the ones on the right are pulling power out of thin air. pretty impressive, huh? now, two things that are exactly the same have have never been more different. ge software. get connected. get insights. get optimized. did you know that the tripadvisor you've always trusted for reviews, book!

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welcome back to "morning joe." we're right on time. can you believe that? >> has that ever happened before? >> i'm wondering.

no, it's never happened. what it could be? >> must have been the peas. >> no i think it may be that a certain "morning joe" is taking a day off because often thins go off the rail. right? could it be that? no. absolutely not. >> we have -- >> i will defend joe. >> thank you rev. we have phil mattingly, sam stein and michael steele and join us on set, amy holmes. and in washington the host of msnbc's "hardball" chris matthews. and in chicago former senior adviser to president obama director of the university of chicago's institute of politics and msnbc contributor david axelrod. first, chris matthews what do you make of the past seven days and the turn of events for this administration and this president and his legacy? >> well it's great for president obama. for a couple weeks there, in fact, for several months we thought he wasn't going to get much done.

in the end, i think it's all come so quickly. i think the same-sex marriage, marriage equality will go to his advantage historically. this is under his watch. he supported it. i think the trade issue, everyone thought that was dead. he was able to go around the corner on that one can republican support and boehner and mcconnell. he was able to get that through. he wants that through. he's a free trader. so i look at health care which was precarious for the subsidies for the nonstate exchanges. and that got through. so it's been amazing success. but also there is this other part of america that isn't happy with all this. and i think they're going to donald trump. we can talk about that later. i think there is something going on there. he has to hold up that is real. >> good touch stones for conversation. let's start with bernie sanders. you got to see these crowds. drawing a massive crowd in madison, wisconsin, last night. sanders talked about the turnout

and how he plans to counter all the money his opponents raising. >> in case you haven't noticed, there are a lot of people here. tonight we have made a little bit of history. you may know after some 25 candidates running for president of the united states but tonight we have more people in a meeting for a candidate for president of the united states than any other candidate has had in 2016. thank you. i am more than aware that my opponents will be able to outspend us. they have billionaire backers. they have super pacs. they have a lot of millionaire friends. but we are going to win this election. if we develop the grassroots national movement that i know we can, at the end of the day, they may have the money but we have

the people and when the people stand together, we can win. >> when bernie sanders says they have the money, he might be talking about this. hillary clinton is reporting record-breaking fund-raising numbers. the clinton campaign says it will report collecting $45 million in primary election funds than she announced in april. that outpaces the record set by president obama for primary donations in the first month of his 2012 re-election campaign. david axelrod, bernie sanders' message is real. his support is real and intense. he look at the money that hillary's collecting, you look at her standing in the polls, the cnn poll yesterday had her up on bernie sanders by 43 points. if yurt hillary clinton campaign, how do you deal with bernie sanders? do you deal with him at all? >> you know i would be careful not to overreact. i have recollections of 2004 at around this time when howard dean who said he was representing the democratic wing of the democratic party was

drawing these kinds of crowds and stirring these kinds of conversations. bernie sanders is going to get votes. he's a good representative of the progressive wing of the democratic party. he's a pure in his views. he is very authentic. he's going to get votes. but if you look at the polls, it's not that just that hillary clin has a lead she is quite popular with democrats. >> yeah. >> you know, touching on 80% approval rating. she is going to be in my view she's going to be the nominee of the democratic party. and as such shouldn't overreact. but the truth is she's not that far from bernie sanders on the fundmental view that the erosion of the middle class, lack of economic mobility inequality are problems for this country that we have to address. the details about how awe dress them, but in the main she in the same place on that issue which is really what is driving a lot of the progressive movement right now. >> amy, what do you think about bernie's impact here? >> i think when you look at the

crowds that the pundits and inside the beltway mate be settled on jeb bush on the right and hillary clinton on the left the voters aren't. and the voters are still shopping. and from polls that bernie sanders is pulling within eight points of hillary in new hampshire and even independents and he's a declared democratic socialist, to me the interesting question is beyond the democratic primary. could bernie sanders act as a ross perot to hillary? i mean could he be a spoiler for her if he keeps the crowds and voters with him? >> let's take that question to chris matthews. chris, i'll also tag a question on to this. what if joe biden jumps in? there are reports that he might. >> i don't think he will. but i do -- i don't think biden will go in. i think there are a couple things going on. we shouldn't be surprised at what david said and seven saying which is if you ask people whether they think congress is doing a good job, it's less than 10%. it is down to single digits. the country doesn't like the political establishment. it doesn't trust it to protect the borders.

it doesn't trust it to protect their dollar or paycheck or protect us overseas. they just don't trust the political establishment. george bush's brother, the brother of a president is running. he is mr. establishmefnt. 80% reject him. they know who jeb bush is. 80 to 90% say no every time. i think there is a push from the left on the democratic party because of income inequality. it is real. it's getting worse. bernie sanders is a very likeable guy. and to a large extent i don't mean this derogatorily, he's not a threat. he doesn't scare anybody. he makes people happy. he tells jokes. he makes you feel good to be out at these rallies. but most americans don't go to rallies. they never thought of going to rallies. most americans don't give the politicians financially. they don't even know what it's about. but i do think it is a pop laus anger at the establishment's inability to do anything to help

the guy with the paycheck. the every day people or the little guy. and the little guy is getting angry on the left and right. >> yep. >> that's why trump is doing well in the polls. >> i don't disagree. sam stein, jump in. >> i agree with chris' point. most americans don't go to rallies. there's a reason that bernie sand serz drawing these crowds at places like madison. he's trying to parlay these big stadium events into massive more popularity and grassroots movement. now will he be able to pull something off in iowa and new hampshire? i have a question for david who managed this stuff on the ground. just to talk about what hillary clinton should do about this are you saying don't even engage with bernie on this stuff? let him just have his moment and hope it peters out? or you would advise the campaign to pick a few issues come to agreement with them on things like income equality and point out a divergence of opinion on gun policy? >> well clearly, she has already lit on the economic

issue, sam. she's talking about income inequality. she is talking about lack of economic mobility. she's made that a centerpiece of her campaign. what i'm saying is don't overreact. i think where the rubber hits the road is going to be on this issue of the tpp, the trade treaty with arab yashgs the trade agreement with asia. secretary clinton was instrumental in launching that process and supported it throughout her tenure as secretary of state. so that's going to be a tough one for her. and i think how she deals with bernie sanders will be reflected in the decision she makes there. if i were her, i would stick with what she has said in the past and not stray too far and not overreact to bernie sanders because i think that would speak to something else that troubles people which is a suspicion of -- >> an opportunity. >> exactly. that's going to be -- that's going to be the most interesting pass in this whole exchange. so i would not overreact. you're right, bernie sanlders

you know people are responding to him in general. now they don't know a whole lot about him. o'malley has already gone after him for being against gun control. that's a significant issue for a lot of progressives. so, you know bernie will get dinged up along the way. he's going to get votes. >> yeah. >> he is feeling the point of view. >> he s michael steele? >> yeah. i want to go back to something that chris said. i think it's an important point. we sort of chart what happens over the next few weeks and months in this primary. chris is absolutely right. the american people are disaffected and angry and it is reflected in the campaigns and support gore guys like bernie sanders or donald trump. but at the end of the day, the base goes out on what do they do? they vote for the establishment. this is going to be a real test to see whether this is a true energy or the same old, same old that leads up to the same result which is we're going go with the jeb bush we're going to go with hillary clinton because at the end of the day they're the two most likely to win.

>> got it. sam stein? >> yeah. i mean i think that is just natural tendency of these elections, right? especially in the crowded primary. you default to someone you sthi going -- think is going to win. a lot of democrats are going to say, you know i really do agree with bernie. i like his approach. but in the end, can we really run a democratic socialist against jeb bush? is it real i didn't think best path? i think pragmatism comes into play. i would imagine that in a field of 15 or 10 republicans it's a little more complex to make that calculation. but i'm not, you know michael may know better about the republican primary process. >> we'll get to the republican side in just a moment. amy? >> i wanted to you know talk to reverend sharpton. we heard all this in 2008 that, hillary clinton was supposed to be the shoe in, the stab establish ment and barack obama beat her pt.

>> i don't think anyone can see bernie sanders and president obama -- >> certainly not. he remind me more of gene mccarthy representing an issue. the two things that bernie sanders needs to be careful of and i agree with david axelrod about 2004 because i ran in that race whether howard dean was getting these huge crowds and then came in i think three in iowa. the two things he's got to worry about, he has to broaden that base. bernie sanders did not show up in charleston or baltimore. and hillary clinton did. so he's dealing with a numbers but in a narrow base was barack obama was brought. and he's got to not get out there too far. the question to me is not whether hillary attacks him. how he attacks hillary if he's going to end up having to support her. then he looks like he's in to use the movement. and i've been on the active side. so bernie sanders has as much to worry about as she does.

expanding the base and not putting himself out of reach when we have to come in. >> chris matthews let's look at the republican side. chris christie got a boost in his bid to win over new hampshire conservatives. yesterday maine governor endorsed christie for the pren presidential nomination. he cited christie's early support for him in maryland governor. larry hogan and their uphill campaigns to win in blue states. >> our bench is much deeper than our opponent's bench. but chris says it the way it s he doesn't sugar-coat anything. he tells the truth. >> meanwhile -- exactly. i don't think you want him? >> i wouldn't go there. look, i think right now, and i may be off on this but i think i'm right. despite his wild ways donald trump is on to something. i don't know if he knows he's on

to it but he's on to something. nationalism, a sthaens this country is not being protected by the political class. the borders are not being protected. we're not being protected generally. someone thooz lock the door at night. he has that ornery nationalistic sense that i think is catching on. now, of course, it's ugly at time. he can make it particularly ugly when he talks ethnicly. but i think there is a sense that political left led by jeb bush now, they're not looking out for the border. they're not looking out for the country. when i was a capitol cap, i worked with a west virginia guy. he said you why the little guy loves this country? because it's all he got. that sends a deep love of country that is getting screwed by the rich and the elite and they're not looking out for us. i think trump may be into and the fact that he's rich is oddly a lot of street corner credibility because the guy's $8 billion and a beautiful wife and

lives in a gold building to the average little guy out there, that's pretty cool. that's cool. >> the person they respect or trust to take care of the economy. >> this is a situation that just absolutely twists up the political elite. because they get so free -- they get so -- we had somebody on the show the other day that runs a very high end magazine just twisted up by donald trump and the fact that there is no way he can make it. and i think chris matthews you're 100% right. he said some things recently that i don't agree with that i think he should restate, more sensitively or retract. but that's beside the point. i said this all along. wherever donald trump goes he generates a massive crowd of people who want to put their arms around him and take a picture. >> as we know he is already number two in gop polls in iowa and in new hampshire. >> but the question is why? and everyone serves a political elite kind of chuckle at why and cast him off. chris matthews just nailed it.

he does tap into something beyond that. whether the political elite like it or not. >> but he represents the guys that is not the established that american public no longer trusts. even his wealth. he's not a rockefeller. he's a guy that made his wealth as a renegade. the real problem with donald trump is does he understand what he is tapping into and know where to take it? i think he is accidentally fell into something. >> david axelrod, take a stab at this. >> well first of all, i think we should sober up here. donald trump is not going to be the republican nominee for president. >> did anybody at this table say that? >> no. but the inference is that he is going to ride a big movement here. he was in first place in the polls in the spring of 2011 rode the berther movement to first place in those polls and thn he crashed. i think he can make more noise.

now there is a movement toward nationalism and politics globally. he is speaking to it here as a reaction to a lot of forces including the economy. but at the end of the day, the question is what impact does he have on the republican field? he's going to be standing on that debate stage. he's going to be articulating the views. how do the other candidates deal with that? do they embrace it or do they stand up to it? and i think that's going to say a lot about whether the republican party can compete in the fall of 2016. >> chris matthews? >> it's a great question. they're going to be on the same stage next month. now it's coming close. only ten people up there. that may be difficult for chug to take on nine guys or nine people including a woman. but it's going -- i think it's a stagecraft problem. he can go up there and punch jeb bush in the nose. jeb bush can come back very powerfully and say excuse me my wife is mexican. that is a personal insult to me and the mexican people who live in this country who are americans and became americans generations ago. and that's an insult i will not

allow. he could have a sister solja moment at trump's expense. but talk about high drama and personal politics. if jeb bush has it in him to say, stop! i don't know if he does. if he doesn't, trump wins. >> i agree with what chris says which is trump -- and i sthed before on the show -- represents things that people are not comfortable saying out loud. he has support now. he has huge name recognition. but the axelrod's point, how long does that last? >> the name recognition is the polling. right? i think that needs to be -- people need to pay more attention to the fact that part of the reason why he is where he is in the polling is because people know who he is. and they look at the poll and you look at 60% of the people don't know ben carson yet or 40% don't know who scott walker is yet. >> or jeb bush. >> they know jeb bush. >> people respond to ben carson when he's on the ground. people are responding to donald trump because this he know who he is. and then on the message itself to what david and chris are saying, china, japan, mexico

it's like he's got a list of countries and he stays completely on message and he taps in issues that make people generally uncomfortable but a lot of people -- >> but he says things i agree with chris that a lot of people want to say. >> right. >> but do you want to say it's also the things you don't allow said in the living room. and we talk about a president that's got to be in the living room. and when you get down to that, i don't think he becomes the guy that they choose. >> we know donald trump is very thin skinned. i was there when he stormed out of the white house correspondent's dinner was president obama is making fun of him. he doesn't take challenge very well. >> which is why jeb bush should take him on a debate. i've been on that debate stage many times. if he gets hit in the nose he will fall right there. he cannot take a punch. >> all right. sam stein, jump in. >> yeah i mean i think there are two dynamics here. one is trump is you know he is throwing grenades into the republican primary field. he is saying who will jump on

them. so with this mexican rapist comment, for instance, you have already a divergence within the field. some candidates are saying, you know i support the sentiment in which he was applying the description and then others saying that he's an idiot more or less. and on the polling thing, i think we need to recognize, phil is right. tons of name id which is get being him to second place in the republican field. the flip side of this is if you look at any of the polls, he's the most despised candidate of any in the race. there are more in favoritable to donald trump than anyone including chris christie who is high on favorability ratings. so we're looking at what is a ceiling, not a floor for the candidacy. >> interesting. we'll see if that is right. david axelrod, thank you so much. chris matthews, stay with us if you can. we want to get your take on the big public feud between new york city mayor bill diblasio and governor andrew cuomo still ahead. also did you have sticker shock the last time you bought an airline ticket? >> yes! >> oh, my god. what happened? well the latest on the investigation that several

carriers may have limited available seats to affect the prices. and you will never look at family's play dates the same way ever again. adam scott joins us to discuss his new movie and a night that takes a very unexpected turn. we'll be right back. ♪ i have to keep on ♪

speak for yourself. that is the message from several key allies of new york city mayor bill diblasio after he accused andrew cuomo of lacking leadership and putting politics ahead of his city's best interests. the state attorney general city council speaker and city's public advocate all distanced them self from deablahs yoe's scathing interview. cuomo is responding and appears to be taking the high road. >> everybody's entitled to their own comments and their own feelings and he can speak to his. >> do you think he is unfair in the manner in which he did it?

>> i've known the mayor a long time. i consider him a friend. he says what he says. i say what i say. and i will let him speak for himself. >> two leads have not seen eye-to-eye on several issues including charter schools, mayoral control of the public schools and rent regulations. former new york city mayor says diblasio needs to be diplomatic instead of publicly attacking saying you're not going to gain anything doing. that you're going to lose that battle. jewel annie says dinner helped smooth over tensions with former new york governor george pataki after he endorsed mario cuomo for governor. he also had advise for him yesterday on "morning joe." >> there is always tension between somebody that has the city's interest and somebody that to represent the whole state. the governor has the greater control. the city can't do much without the state saying okay we authorize you to do this. so i don't understand what diblasio is thinking. i don't think it's particularly smart. you know there are always personal battles. you keep them behind the scenes. >> if you were governor and the

mayor of the city said while you were goner attacked new that way publicly, you would, a, rise above it or the, b, exact let bus? >> both. >> i love him. >> you're always above the fray except when you're not. >> there you go. >> nice. >> i love it. >> let's dig into this a little bit. the press secretary for mayor diblasio said yesterday that this passing of a one year extension of school control was the final slap in the face and why diblasio went out publicly because governor cuomo gave an extension over the span of the mayor to governor bloomberg. and then we mentioned at the top there that some democrats had distanced themselves from diblasio but on the front page of "the new york times" there is a list of liberal and down state democrats who are siding with diblasio against the mayor. >> major democrats and on the -- and many in the progressive community. i think what you're looking

here -- looking at here is one, bill diblasio truly believes in his agenda. it doesn't hurt him politically. he won on pre-k and fighting stop and frisk and other things that cuomo has been moderate to missing on. moderate to missing because he has to deal with republican state senate. so both of their political worlds are doing what they have to do. because cuomo has to deal with a different political reality than diblasio. this does not hurt diblasio's run for re-election. he becomes the crusader that he was. that's what he meant. he runs the year after next. and cuomo's got a government. he's got to deal with the upstate republican. and so this stuff doesn't bother me because i'm looking at the fact that both of them are doing what they have to do politically. but i think diblasio is right on the issues. mayoral control should have been extended. it was before. i think he's right on some of the issues that he raises. and i think that the governor is

dealing with the reality of an i'm in albany with the republican state senate and i are to do what i have to do even if it's at the xpengs of things you believe in mr. mayor. >> chris matthews the mayor of new york city needs the governor of the state of new york to get a lot of things done. is this a smart play by the mayor? >> i'm with the reverend on this, smart politics by diblasio. the david against the goliath up in albany. that always works politically. as the reverend also said it's an ideological piece to. this diblasio is a progressive. down the line progressive on issues like vouchers and things like that and charters. he's all the way with the unions all the way with the left. i don't mean that derogatorily. that is who he is. and to his credit he still is that way. mario cuomo and andrew cuomo are traditional democratic centrists. they represent a very wide political party that has to deal with republican party. it seems to me that andrew who i like wants to run for re-election. and i think part of that is the way he handled the prison break very effectively out there

leading the fight to catch these guys and very he aggressively out front in the corner. you know when there is a four alarm fire, you want to seat governor and mayor on the corner. i think they're both playing it very well. it's a question of what is your political strike as to who you root for? >> all right. amy? >> quick question chris. george pataki's point is that this doesn't actually hurt cuomo either, because he can take the high road because he owns it. >> and who did pataki beathe? beat mario cuomo. he is very aware of what you have to do if you're a democratic governor. act like governor, not like a democrat so much. act like governor. now reverend al had that right completely. >> chris matthews, thank you. we'll be watching "hardball" at 7:00 eastern. >> please do. it's doing very well these days. i hope you're one of the viewers. even though you have to go to bed. >> i watch every night. i seriously watch every night. i'm so excited to watch. >> because she is already watching politics. >> it's kind of -- it's a good point. i am already there. i'm already there watching

"politics nation." thank you chris matthews. >> good to see you. thank you. >> up next will the u.s. walk away from nuclear talks with iran if officials fail to meet next week's deadline? we'll ask tony blinken. he is next on "morning joe." song: rachel platten "fight song" ♪ two million, four hundred thirty-four thousand three hundred eleven people in this city. and only one me. ♪ i'll take those odds. ♪ be unstoppable. the all-new 2015 ford edge.

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joining us now u.s. deputy of state. good to you have on this morning. re-estabilshing relations with cuba. this is what change looks like. i'm not sure some republicans are going to see that way. what is the significance of this development? we have already the emphasis be spruced up and going have embassies reopening. a long time coming. maybe roadblocks ahead. >> our embassy was shuddered 54 years ago thachlgt is the year before i was born. and what president eisenhower announced that he said i hope we get back to normal relations very soon. and i expect that. i think no one thought it would take this long. this is very significant. we're really listening to the cuban people. the overwhelming majority of cubans want this to happen. they want that engagement with the united states. this gives us a much greater ability to engage with cubans from all walks of life to have

them come to the embassy and have the diplomats move around the country. greater access more information. that is a quicker path to freedom and democracy than what we've been doing the last 50 years. >> do you understand the concerns, secretary? we had robert menendez and "the washington post" saying why legitimatize that regime now? why not force them into see who is taking political dissidents prisoner and things like that before you give them legitimacy of an embassy. >> there is not a favor. this is an ability for us to connect much more infectively with the cuban people. it means that they'll have greater access to americans. they'll have greater access to information and greater access to resources as more americans go there as we're with them. that is the way to get democracy. i have great respect for people p concerns about the policy. en that want to do the right thing much we all want to do the right thing. but what we've been trying this for 50 years, keeping them isolated. it hasn't worked. it's time to try something different. >> okay. you're next.

>> i think that's what we're talking about, overtime talks. a lot of back and forth is extended for another week. what is the latest in terms of the talks from the u.s.'s position? is there anything else they can do? >> and at what point does overtime look disesperate. >> we've been at this for two years. to take a few extra days to make sure that iran will make good on the commitme in. t they already made is worth the time to do. that the single best way to make sure that iran doesn't get the material for nuclear weapon is through this negotiation and agreement. so it's worth making the effort to see if we can get. there look the bottom line is this what we don't know is whether the iranians have the political space to make a deal. they made commitments. it is clear. putting in the details, crossing the ts dotting is, that's the hard part. we'll see if they're able to make good on the commitments they're will have made. >> can you shed light on the

sticking points? >> i don't want to get into the negotiations. this is minute to minute, hour by hour. but there are critical things that we have to have. and in particular access verification transparency. if we don't have what we need there won't be a deal. i think you heard the president. he is very comfortable walking away if we don't get what we need. >> the president wants any time anywhere inspections. that is fair to say? >> the iea needs to have the access required to make sure that iran is not developing the material for weapons. so where they need to go they'll decide. but they need to be able to go there. they need to be able to make sure that iran is making good on its commitments. >> if he this don't give us that, we walk way? >> if they don't give us access there's no deal. >> is the administration in touch with republican leaders on the hill? there are leaders on the hill about this agreement. what is the engagement with chill leaders? >> there is incense agreement

over the entire period of the negotiations. there are more briefings, more hearings, more phone calls on this issue than just about anyone i can think of. and it's very important. at the end of the day, this deal, if there is a deal has to pass scrutiny. we want it to be scrutinized by the american people by congress. but at the same time, if there is a deal and if people oppose it, they have an obligation not only to say why they oppose it but they have an obligation to say what they would do differently and how they get it done. >> sam stein jump in. >> i mean i just generally curious if the administration is going to walk away from a deal as you say that they're going to do tony the conditions are met, what happens next? >> well i think what happens is the only reason we would walk away is if iran doesn't make good on commitments they already made and said it would do. and if that case i think the entire world starting with our negotiating partners will be with us. and then the pressure presumably on iran would increase. but again, we hope to get this

to a deal. we hope to get to an agreement. we've been working on this for a while. i think iran has a lot invested in this. they need this a lot more than we do. we'll see if the political space exists in iran for them to make the hard decisions necessary to get the votes. >> michael steele has a question. >> yes, mr. secretary. you make the point that the administration looks at the cuba situation. want to go back to that real quick. on the point that because the united states and cuba have been at odds and we've not engaged, that their behavior hasn't changed, but the rest of the world has engaged with cuba. they've had financing and support and trade and visitors and tourists. and, yet, their behavior still hasn't changed. how do you reconcile that argument against that particular fact? that world has engaged with cuba and yet cuba still just recently as last month arrested over 200 dissidents? right in the midst of this new system in the united states. >> well, look change is not going to happen overnight.

it's going to take time. the fact of matter is we're the big country on the block. we're the big neighbors. and the relationship with us has the potential over time to have to affect more change in cuba than anything else. the bottom line is we pursued one policy for 50 years and with very good intentions because of the human rights situation in cube yashgs because of the nature of the government. and the evidence is clear. it hasn't produced the results. so what's going to happen michael, is this. because we have an embassy, because we'll be able to send our diplomats around the country, because cubans can come to the embassy and have more access to information, because more americans are going there, the cuban people the middle class can be more and more connected with the united states and with the rest of the world. that's going to empower them. over time as they're empowered, that will be the way to move democracy and human rights forward in cuba. >> all right. thank you so much. good to you have on the show. >> thank you for having me. >> up next, some of the nation's biggest airlines admit they're being investigated by the

justice department. why it could have affected you and millions of other americans who have flown recently. tom costello has the details when we come back.

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liberty mutual insurance. the justice department is investigating something many americans have long been suspicious of and that is airline ticket prices. officials familiar with the investigation say the question is whether some airlines have been clueding to keep airfares high. tom costello joins us live from reagan national airport. tom, what exactly is the justice department looking into here? >> are we going to get our money back? >> no on the last question. i'll tell but first. doj is looking into whether over the last few years the airline have been working together to keep planes full as you know if you fly, there is simply not any extra room onboard these planes these days.

they've been working to keep planes full and limit the number of seats available, keep airfares up and profits up. >> reporter: this morning some of the nation's biggest airline confirm they're under federal investigation. it all has to do with the word frel vagtors say have been used a lot by airline executives disciplined. usually in referring to keeping the number of available seats or capacity low to keep profits high. >> maintaining capacity discipline is a codeword that the airlines use which is a fans qui way of saying let's keep the number of flights lower so we can raise prices. >> reporter: the justice department tells nbc news it's now investigating possible unlawful coordination by some airlines. from 2009 through 2014, airline ticket prices rose 13%. meanwhile, there are fewer big airlines competing for customers. since 2007 through a series of mergers, nine airlines have sh rufrpg to just four controlling 80% of the market.

today the airlines are earning record profits through higher ticket prices fewer seats, extra charges for luggage, leg room, even overhead bin space. but some wall street analysts say that doesn't mean they're colluding. >> to say that airlines are playing nice with one another because of consolidation i think is unfair to some extent. >> reporter: still, many airline customers complain flying is not what it used to be. >> i think it stinks. i mean the airline prices have gone way up. >> charging you for everything for a bag to come on to seat space. >> reporter: the summer travel season is just now hitting its peak. so united delta and southwest all tell nbc news they're cooperating with this investigation. american isn't commenting. the airline industry insists that there are more seats available to some not fewer. by the way this is all in the context of much lower jet fuel prices. they peaked at $3.90 a gallon in

2008 now it's at $1.68. the airlines say if you're starbucks and the price of your coffee beans drops, you don't suddenly start charging less for a cup of coffee much it's all about supply and demand and ensuring the profits stay stable. back to you. >> the point you made is the one made by chuck schumer yesterday. he's one of the senators had a asked the justice department to look into this. he said it's hard to understand with jet fuel prices dropping by 40% since last year why ticket prices haven't followed. concern you just enunciated. >> well i think that's -- i've asked the airlines this many times over the years. they make the point if you go to a pizza shop and the price of their cheese drops, you don't expect you're going to pay less for your pizza. that, however, is the kind of rational that the airlines are trying to embrace themselves. >> yes. but insult to injury for you and your flight to the west coast then. >> i think we can all agree commercial air travel is kind of an unpleasant experience. >> it's not fun. >> they nickel and dime you. i was flying across the country. i had to check a bag.

i checked it. they lost it and still charged me for it. i said i assume -- >> no. >> i assume you refund the fee i was charged. they said, no we don't do that. >> i got charged for the wi-fi that didn't work and i bought twice. >> the service is not getting better. i cover overseas a lot, there are all complaints that international carriers are getting better. the domestic carriers are just brutal in terms of the experience. >> $3.3 billion in profits in the first quarter alone. that is amazing. the more interesting part about this whole thing. the justice department is why the consolidation actually occurred in this industry. their antitrust division let all the airline come together largely in the wake of 9/11 to try to spur up revenue and profits. now they're looking into them. that's a mess. >> all right. we have a lot to talk about bernie sanders this morning. we have new polls out of iowa. democrats just out this morning, iowa democrats and confirms why bernie is the talk of the town. less than 20 points now separate clinton and sanders in the

latest quintlate latest poll. >> that matters in iowa. >> it matters. >> it's a caulk yes, sir statecus state. his message is getting louder, too. he is resonating with younger people. >> all right. we'll watch. still ahead, michelle obama announces a big change for the next time you visit the white house. i like this change. we'll be right back. >> peas in the guacamole? >> no. those who have served our nation have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life.

seriously, we have been talking about annoying charges on airlines for this entire commercial break. it has to stop.

somebody needs to put the cubosh on charging for really bad food. another look at some of the morning papers. this is from nbc news. in east tennessee, more than 5,000 residents evacuated after a freight train carrying a highly flammable and toxic gas derailed and caught fire. it happened near noxville. a two-mile evacuation known has been established and some people are sheltering in a local high school. seven officers were taken to a hospital after breathing in fumes. from the washington post the obama administration has reversed a 40-year-old ban on taking photographs on white house tours. the restriction was put in place baas of the damage the camera flashes could do to historic artwork. that is no longer a problem in the age of selfies. first lady michelle obama made the announcement on social media. >> if you have been on a white house tour you may have seen

this sign. well, not anymore. >> usa today, a fisherman off the coast of florida made a brave but questionable decision last week when a shark grabbed onto his line and caused his kayak to capsize. i don't want to see this. the video is from an online fishing show on youtube called chew on this. oh, my gosh. >> a big shark. >> that's my nightmare. stop it. >> he gets back into the kayak and goes back out again. >> he does not. >> yes. >> it shows the captain's boat tipping over in the shark infested waters and chancey swimming to safety. afterwards he realizing the shark was still on his line so he got back in his kayak, and he caught the shark. >> he did catch it? >> yeah. >> he tells nbc news quote, most people contacted me are like you're crazy.

yeah. yeah you're crazy. >> i love that dedication. >> what's wrong with him? oh, my god. look at that thing. still ahead, that's something. that's a good one. that's not like a squirrel water skiing. that's interesting. >> that's good too. >> you like that? >> yeah. >> a classic. >> all right. kicker stories. all right, bernie sanders draws close to 10,000 people. 10,000 people at a rally last night. a new report claims vice president biden may be getting ready to run in 2016. and hillary clinton breaks fund-raising numbers. we'll have a healthy dose of democratic politics ahead. plus why there are conflicted reports about what caused a fire at a historic black church, the seventh in the church since the charleston church massacre. and police across the country are on high alert for possible isis attacks over the holiday weekend. we'll hear from the nypd

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good morning. it's thursday, july 2nd. guess what's coming. july 4th. we're almost here. with us we have national political correspondent phil maddingly. host of msnbc's politics nation and the president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton and foreign correspondent ayman mohyeldin. how is the early schedule? >> still struggling with the morning hours. >> welcome to our world.

>> what's in these drinks, by the way? >> you'll never stop struggling with that. >> joining us from washington sam stein, and msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele. let's get to politics and we have a little record breaking going on for bernie sanders. senator bernie sanders broke a record for this presidential cycle drawing a massive crowd. look at that. in madison, wisconsin, last night. sanders talked about the turnout and how he plans to counter all the money his opponents are raising. >> in case you haven't noticed, there are a lot of people here. tonight, we have made a little bit of history. you may know when i first saw 25 candidates running for the president of the united states but tonight, we have more people

at a meeting for a candidate for president of the united states than any other candidate has had in 2016. thank you. i am more than aware that my opponents will be able to outspend us. they have billionaire backers. they have superpacs. they have a lot of millionaire friends. but we are going to win this election. if we develop the grassroots national movement that i know we can, at the end of the day, they may have the money, but we have the people. and with when the people standard together, we can win. >> michael steele on the republican side, you guys have had candidates who draw huge crowds. we have seen that before. put on your objective hat. what do you think -- who is this guy? what's his role here? >> in a lot of respects bernie is channeling elizabeth warren for a lot of disaffected

progressives in the democratic party who, you know feel they have a champion who is going to be able to authentically articulate what their concerns are and the direction they would like to see the country go. now, does bernie sanders wind up beating hillary clinton? i don't think so. but he puts a lot of pressure on her to come to his table, much more than he's going to be going to hers and having the conversations she wants to have. so out of the box, bernie's laid down impressive markers. not just in terms of you know the number of people who show up. >> incredible. >> but the consistency of messxj the relatable of that message to everyday voters out there. so it's going to be a fascinating challenge for hillary as this thing goes into the debate stage coming up in about a month and a half. >> rev michael used the word authenticity. bernie sanders has been preaching about inequality his entire career. that was a friendly crowd.

madison, wisconsin, is sort of the home of the bernie sands message. also, if you look at the polls, he still trills by a great number. he's got to be reckoned with in the race. >> he has to be reckoned with and he personifies the movement around income inequality. when you look at from occupy going forward this movement around economic issues has grown, and he's been a part of it. in many ways he was a foreman of it. when you look at the crowd in wisconsin where you had walker go against labor. where you had a strong occupy movement -- >> go to nrbt rupt the clockants with breaking news. we're following this story, and we've got the graphic up of where this is happening. the navy yard in washington, d.c. is on lockdown at this moment. police are responding to the report of an active shooter that is on the navy yard campus. we have confirmed the navy yard is locked down. and this active shooter, we know

so far, is possibly one, maybe more. we don't know. it's all unconfirmed at this point. but we do know the place is on lockdown. d.c. police have closed off a number of roads in the area as well. no one can get in and out of the area. no further details have been released, but clearly, something is going on. it looks at this point as the reality of an active shooter at the d.c. navy yard. >> obviously, it comes at a time where the country, they have been warning for the last several days they're going to be on high alert across the country given the fact we're going into the fourth of july weekend, the isis threats out there. it's still early, but i'm just looking at some of the comments coming on social media and some of the scenes people there are describing in terms of police sirens rushing to the scene of that shooting. that we're hearing about. >> we have pete williams following and trying to get confirmation.

we're trying to get confirmation exactly what's going on. the fbi is not confirming but they are confirming that they are responding, and they're on the scene and they're all over it. obviously, these pictures that are being fed into us from the navy yard and from the outskirts of the navy yard show that there is a serious scene going on here, and again, the reports, initial reports coming in that there is an active shooter on the campus of the d.c. navy yard. employees, we're being told are sheltering in place, so they can't move. and their best options right now is to just stay where they are and shelter in place. the navy is not confirming an incident yet. again, we have a report of police responding to an active shooter at the d.c. navy yard but no official confirmation from the navy or the fbi on this. they are just saying that they are responding and i'll put responding in quotes. a lot of roads around the washington, d.c. navy yard have

been shut down. you can see the traffic has been ground to a halt as they try to figure out how to contain this situation. a situation that appears to be an active shooter on the location of the d.c. navy yard. sam stein. >> yeah just a few data points to add. again, nothing is confirmed but it's worth recalling this is the site of the 2013 shooting that left at least 13 dead there. i live not so far away. this is a fairly well secured place. it's fortified by a fence, obviously because of the 2013 incident, a lot of people have been on -- suspicious on edge about something like this happening again. but again, reports at this point are not confirmed. but multiimatemal news outlets are reporting an active shooter. >> it was a secure scene then but i remember security issues and holes they discovered after the story broke.

and they were shored up. this is very interesting, if it does turn out to be what reports are telling us that there is an active shooter at the d.c. navy yard at this moment. tom costello joins us live on the phone right now with possible details. tom. >> well mika i can't tell you a lot. except the fact i am now about three blocks or so away from where this is occurring. and there is a very heavy police presence and fire presence with fire and medics staging. i have seen d.c. fire department paramedics who are actually dressed in s.w.a.t. type gear as if they would have to go in and affect a rescue. but and they're staging some distance away. considerable fire presence and as i'm moving firth down the street now, down m street down towards the navy yard considerable police presence as well. for people who know d.c. this is literally, well we've gone through this before.

about two years ago. we're about four blocks or so from the nationals baseball park. it's right around the corner from the department of transportation headquarters. and it is in this busy part of southeast that is cause for suggest a resurgence if you will, with building and beautiful lofts and shopping and restaurants down here in the last few years. and now for the second time in two years, this massive police response to the navy yard. i cannot give you any specifics on what is happening inside. i'm trying to make my way closer to the scene. but i do see d.c. police i see federal homeland security police on the scene. significant d.c. fire department presence here as well. transportation police are here. pretty big response and it look looks like as i'm going through the intersection i'm now being stopped by an armed police officer with an assault weapon who is stopping all the traffic here. and it looks like a significant movement of people who are maybe

moving out of their nearby buildings. it's hard for me to be precise on where they're going, but right here at the corner of m street and new jersey avenue with a significant police presence. >> so tom, as you sort of gather the sights and sounds which is at best what we can do because information coming into us from the fbi is only that they are responding, as well as the navy yard saying they are responding, but nobody is confirming this active shooter at this point. we do have information that employees on the site of the washington navy yard are being told to shelter in place. you're on the outskirts where the roads are being shut down right outside, and you're seeing some employees from outside buildings, from buildings in the outskirts of the navy yard being told to walk out and being moved out. i'm just being handed some new information here. okay. u.s. military officials tell nbc news there have been reports of gunshots heard at the navy yard.

u.s. defense -- >> mika. >> yeah tom. >> i've now made my way to right up to the block, and we have got dozens, i mean dozens of police vehicles. we've got a helicopter now circling overhead. homeland security police are on the scene now, routing people away from this location. i suspect they're going to tell me in a minute i've got to move as well. but it is a very heavy, very heavy police presence here. i'm now at the corner of m and i'm sorry, i'm being distracted and told i have to move. i can't give you a precise location of where i am. >> wrc, our affiliate there, is telling us that u.s. marshals are also on the scene, and u.s. military officials are telling nbc news there have been reports of gunshots heard at the navy yard. this, along with the information of the active shooter. this is just a report right now. it's unconfirmed, an active

shooter at the d.c. navy yard. tom, are you getting closer to what side of it? we're looking at a map of the washington, d.c. navy yard and tray trying to get a sense of not only what's happening there but in the outskirts where we're told roads are shut down. >> they are being shut down. i may be one of the last vehicles in, to be honest with you. i'm now trying to find a spot to park. the is a significant police presence. let me drop off to deal with the traffic issue real fast. >> okay. and again, i'm being told again by alex in my ear what i have here, and there are definitely reports of gunshots heard at the navy yard. so something is going on in there right now. and with all the different law enforcement types responding here they're clearly working on getting a handle onto it and possibly don't at this point because employees are being told to shelter in place. >> eerie to watch the video right now.

thinking about two years ago. also, as you mentioned, all the different law enforcement entities in place, and the u.s. navy. one of the biggest problems identified in the wake of the 2013 shooting was there was no communication between the navy between the police department between federal investigators. one of the big efforts on all fruntsz in the wake of that was to try to better that process. so you hope that that is actually working right now. one of the other big issues a lot of after-action reports in 2013 where people having the ease in which people got security clearances into the u.s. naval yard, the ease people were able to enter the premises the expectation in the wake of the defense department review is all of that would have been closed off. in the wake of all that for there still to be an incident that's being reported right now, it's amazing and kind of eerie. >> certainly the timing the concern here as we head closer to the july 4th weekend. that is not lost on everybody reporting on this and responding to this. let's regroup here at 13 past

the hour. we have the u.s. park police the fbi, the u.s. marshals washington, d.c. police all forms of law enforcement responding to an active shooter, reports of an active shooter at the navy yard in washington, d.c. we have nbc news being told by u.s. military officials that there have been reports of gunshots heard at the navy yard. employees on the campus of the navy yard are being told to shelter in place, not to move. we have buildings outside the navy yard being evacuated, and we have the fbi saying that they are responding but not confirming to what is happening here. clearly, this is a situation that is still unfolding that we are watching happen live before our eyes. sam stein. >> just a few little tidbits, nothing that great, but the u.s. navy is now officially confirming that they are on lockdown, but they're not giving anything out beyond that.

local politician has tweeted that he wants people to give first responders some space here. and the person i know who lives next door to the navy yard e-mails to say, quote, it's absolutely nuts down there. the whole place is shut down. worth noting that the department of transportation is in that basic area of the city. a lot of federal workers en route to start work before the july 4th weekend. hopefully, let's hope that this happened before many of them arrived on their work day. >> all right. sam, thank you for that. what you're watching here is fresh video coming into msnbc. this is as close as we can get to shots of the navy yard in washington, d.c. where there are reports of an active shooter on hand not in custody at this point. also, u.s. military officials telling nbc news that gunfire has been heard at the navy yard. so they're responding to an active scene right now. not a lot confirmed beyond that.

we have tom costello who is as close as he can get to inside the perimeter outside the navy yard watching buildings outside the navy yard being evacuated, and as sam noted, that some folks who live near the area say the place is just nuts. the navy yard is on lockdown. employees are told to shelter in place. wrc, our affiliate in washington, d.c. says that u.s. marshals are also on the scene. we have the fbi, u.s. marshals homeland security and washington, d.c. police all basically amassing here and trying to work with this situation, which is still very much active. an active shooter on the scene. gunshots heard and no word that this has come to a close in any way, shape, or form. and looking at the timing and sort of some of the things that come to mind when you see something like this at a place like this at a time like this. >> you take into consideration the venue itself the location

obviously, a target. we have seen that as far back as 2013 when that shooting happened. it's in the nation's capital, not jumping to conclusions, but coming in an environment of real threats and a lot of risks for the united states during this weekend. you know one of the points that has been made over and over again over the course of the last several days where some of the specific threat calls made by isis for attacks in the united states and elsewhere, so certainly, all of that is weighing in very heavily on law enforcement. more importantly, trying to get a handle on the situation. you can see it's still very much a chaotic situation. >> i just got alex telling me he has an urgent coming over here that employees for the washington navy yard because it's early in the morning, stay home. don't come to work today. it's an urgent all personnel, do not come to the navy yard today. that's stunning. >> yeah. certainly, this time of day,

rush hour traffic in washington a lot of people making their way in there. >> telling everyone not to come to work there is obviously a scene unfolding right now that they haven't gotten under control and is serious. we have reports now. we're working around carefully wording how we say this. reports of an active shooter on the navy yard. we have u.s. military officials telling nbc news there have been reports of gunshots heard at the navy yard. we have confirmed the navy yard is on lockdown. that police are responding to reports of an active shooter. we're getting no reports that the shooter is in custody or this situation is under control. only more reports of people being told not to come to work. d.c. police have closed off a number of roads in the area. they're trying to keep people from even getting near the navy yard. they're evacuating buildings. anyone who has gotten to work already being brought out. a heavy, massive police presence

on the scene. helicopters are being heard overhead. s.w.a.t. teams have suited up and streets are blocked a ways back from the area. the fbi, metro police and u.s. marshals are on the scene. and still no definite details on exactly what is transpiring on the campus of the navy yard. what has caused this massive police and federal response. of course, this was the place in september of 2013 where 12 people were killed and 8 people were injured in a mass shooting by a former navy reservist and there are a lot of questions as to how that person got into the part of the navy yard that he did. how and why he was armed and how it got through security. i remember a lot of changes being made there in light of that. so this will be certainly revealing when it is discovered what exactly happened here. i'm told by alex they have asked for a second ambulance at the

scene. so some developments here. even though no confirmation of a gunman, so sight of a gunman but reports of an active shooter. gunshots heard, and now a second ambulance being called in along with this massive local and federal response. again, this is taking place, if you're just joining us at the d.c. navy yard which is locked down at this moment. as law enforcement officials work on trying to get a handle on a situation that is still not under control. so again, shots fired. shots being heard at the d.c. navy yard. reports of an active shooter on the scene. reports now of a second ambulance called into the navy yard but everyone else being told to stay home. if you work at the washington, d.c. navy yard do not come to work today. you are being told to stay home. employees that are already at the scene that were already at work are being told to shelter in place. and we have buildings that we

witness by nbc's tom costello nearby, around the navy yard being evacuated. so this is clearly an active scene. this is clearly a scene that is not under control, that they don't have a handle on at this hour. again, police are responding to reports of an active shooter on the campus of the d.c. navy yard. and we want to bring in nbc's jim miklaszewski who brings us new information. >> as you have been saying the navy yard in washington, d.c. has been put on lockdown. everybody has been ordered to shelter in place. which means they'll do everything to protect themselves, lock themselves in their offices. seek shelter somewhere. even hide under desks. after there were some reports shortly before 8:00 a.m. eastern time of gunshots being heard at the navy yard. there's been a massive response from local law enforcement and federal officials as well as military law enforcement, to the navy yard. in part because everyone is so

hypersensitive to any potential threat on this coming fourth of july weekend. and because, of course there were 12 people killed massacred by a single gunman at the navy yard in 2013. as of this moment u.s. military and defense officials say there has been no gunman located. there has been no confirmation that actual shots were fired. but you can imagine the kind of precaution that everybody would take given the history of that place and the current threat from lone wolf terrorists as the homeland security officials have warned everybody here during this fourth of july weekend, mika. >> all right, jim miklaszewski at the pentagon thank you. we're following this breaking news, and we're hearing that there's another ambulance being brought in. don't know yet if we have casualties or injuries but we know of gunshots fired.

>> i was going to say, again, the preliminary reports, but this is from the washington post and they managed to speak to somebody who was inside and get an account. they were describing the scene inside. one of the individuals that they are quoting, again on the washington post website, there was a individual in a room with 60 or 80 people who have taken shelter in a conference room. according to this person who is named in the quote, a systems integration manager, he's saying at this point, they don't believe the shooter is in their building, thank goodness for that. that's a quote from the "washington post" about the developing situation. >> mick are you still there? >> i am. >> clearly, this is all rapidly developing at this hour. you see the massive response. obviously, this was the scene of a horrific shooting a few years ago. there were changes, i think, to the way they handled security because of how that unfolded. and now, completely on lockdown.

employees told to shelter in place. as far as you have heard, this is definitely on the site of the navy yard? >> yes, it is. and you can imagine the mass confusion in a situation like this. when people heard what they thought were gunshots no reason not to believe they weren't, but so far, again, u.s. military defense, and in fact local law enforcement, has yet to confirm there is an active shooting on base. you'll recall back in 2013 it was very easy at that time for a private contractor, not even a government employee but a private contractor to walk onto the base with weapons inside a simple duffel bag that he had over his shoulder. since then there have been increased security measures imposed there at the navy yard. but no such measures are absolutely fail-safe.

it's always possible somebody could have infiltrated the security and got onto the base. clearly, those people who are on the phone locked in and sheltered in place believe they heard gunshots and are fearful for their lives. at this point, again, no confirmation. but u.s. military and local law enforcement in a massive response, are taking every possible precaution. and they'll go room to room to room in almost a s.w.a.t.-like fashion, because they want to make sure that if there is a gunman, that everybody is in the safest most secure position that they could possibly be in at this point. >> we're hearing about a second ambulance brought in. have you heard anything from that and any word from the fbi? >> we haven't talked to the fbi. we're only talking to defense and military officials who are getting all their information from other federal agencies. and so far, we have not had any

confirmation of anybody actually -- any shots actually been fired and anybody injured. but bringing in ambulances to the scene, of course is not a very encouraging sign. but so far, no confirmation, at least, from this building from officials here. >> willie. >> thanks. we'll let you get back to work. let's go back to tom costello on the phone on the scene. what can you tell us since we spoke to you last? >> i can confirm multiple ambulances have rolled into the scene here. we're staged about three blocks or so from the navy yard. extraordinarily heavy police presence with metro police department transit police a federal homeland security police there as well and presumably down in the military yard military police as well. and the helicopter overhead. i was here two years ago for the active shooter when we had 12 people killed here. i would say the response is as robust or more than it was then as clearly the police learned a

lesson from that response. you may recall there was criticism at the time and the post-event reports were very critical of the fact there was poor communication between the agencies and radio communication, and capitol hill police were close to the scene and were called back. as a result of that investigation, they were supposed to have made significant changes in how they operate in an emergency like this. now it's being put to the test yet again with these reports of an active shooter situation. i would tell you, however, we have not seen from my vantage point, we have not seen any ambulances leaving the scene, only entering the scene. and we did see at one point paramedics down the street who were dressed in tactical gear. fire department paramedic units dressed in tactical gear in the event they had to go into some sort of active shooter scene. we have not seen them go in and not seen any ambulances come out. guys. >> all right tom, thank you. if you're just joining us we have an active situation at the d.c. navy yard.

police are responding to the report of an active shooter there. nbc news has been told by military officials that gunshots were heard. but nothing is completely confirmed yet. ambulances have been brought into the scene, and also if you work at the d.c. navy yard you are being asked to stay home today. do not come to work. there are employees who were of course already at work and they're told to shelter in place, and buildings nearby are being evacuated and roads outside the d.c. navy yard are being shut down. there is a massive federal and local response by authorities. the fbi, u.s. marshals d.c. police homeland security storming the scene as well as tom just noted, ambulances brought in and some paramedics in active gear if they may have to respond to a scene that is still with a shooter on the loose or shooters on the loose, if that is confirmed.

we do have reports, tom costello, i know you have made your way as close as possible. you said that nearby buildings have been evacuated. what else are you able -- what side of the d.c. yard are you on? >> we're on the -- we're on the south, i believe south side of the d.c. navy yard. we're on -- if you have a map, we're on the side of the navy yard that has the nationals baseball stadium. so we're at the corner of fourth and m. this is about three blocks further down further down the road right now. when we arrived, there were people being evacuated from their presumably, their places of work told to move out of the area closer up the street closer towards the nationals baseball park. and people who were getting out at the metro stop in front of the department of transportation being told don't walk further down the street. stay in this general location. the sound overhead is the park police helicopter which has been circling for at least the last 20 to 30 minutes or so.

you may recall that they made significant rescues during the previous incident in 2013 going in and rescuing people who had been shot and bringing them out, and in one case bringing them literally to a park nearby where they were picked up by an ambulance. we have a very similar situation in terms of the response. i would tell you from body language, while there is a tremendous, robust response the body language does not suggest at the moment there's an imminent threat, at least to anybody on the streets outside of this particular incident. >> all right, tom, thanks. truth is we don't know exactly what is happening inside the building. we'll get back to you in a second. let's go to the d.c. bureau where we find pete williams. >> it's been now almost half an hour since the reports were first heard. and what we understand is that this started with -- this is we're going to have to caveat all these things we say at this

point by saying that this is the early information we have. so these things tend to change as time goes by. but our understanding is that this began when a security guard at the navy yard a security officer saw two people he thought were suspicious. we don't know whether -- we still haven't any confirmation that gunshots were actually heard. all we know is that there was a report of an active shooter. we have heard no reports of injuries. there has been a request for a back-up ambulance, a second ambulance at the scene. our understanding is this is fairly standard operating procedure in a situation like this, that they like to have ambulances there in case there are injured, but here's the situation. we know that there was a report of an active shooter. but we don't yet know that any actual gunshots were fired or anyone has been injured. back to you. >> pete williams thanks. filling in some of the blanks.

as he point out, no confirmation yet from nbc news there were shots fired. we just know there's a report of an active shooter. we don't know about injuries or anything like that. again, all coming against the backdrop of reports we have been getting just this morning in fact on our show that there's been heightened concern, security concern coming up this holiday weekend. also of course against the backdrop of a september 2013 less than two years ago shooting at that very naval yard in washington where a man who was mentally ill went inside a civilian contractor and spent more than an hour inside building 197 before law enforcement could catch up to him. he killed 12 people in the end and injured 3 others. obviously, security has been heightened there stepped up over the last two years. the response is heavy, perhaps because of the shooting a couple years ago. we don't know exactly at this moment what's happening inside. >> sam stein, you have been hearing from people who live in the area and following this.

you heard from one person that people are being asked to give first responders space to work. and that is outside the navy yard even within a perimeter outside. >> sure. one thing, first, the u.s. capitol building which is about a mile or so from where this incident is taking place, according to capital police at this point, there's no known threat to the u.s. capitol building so that's an important development there. i'm in communication with someone who lives right in that area what he writes is a ton of department of transportation staff are standing at the corner outside. not being told what to do. essentially to stay in place. looks like there are several other emergency vehicles with lights flashing down m street and south capitol. not exactly moving. this person's building basically on lockdown. he says the d.c. police will escort you away from the building but won't let you back in. everything is at a standstill as

pete and others have said. everyone is essentially waiting for more reports to see what is happening. in terms of a news break, the capitol building at this juncture schis a mile away not a known threat at this juncture. >> we're following breaking news out of washington, d.c. not a lot confirmed, clearly as you can see, an active scene at the navy yard which is on lockdown at this hour. we're just about half past the hour. and i am getting new reports in that we are not yet to tell you because we only have one single source, but as you can see, as of now, it is a situation that isn't completely out of control. we've had a massive response from federal, state, and local authorities. fbi, u.s. marshals homeland security, all on the scene. responding to an active shooter, but we're still trying to get confirmation. pete williams is standing by with more. pete. >> well, i think what we have to

say is we have heard from one law enforcement official that the all-clear has been given. i think -- i think that we're trying to be transparent and tell you what we know. let's say that we don't have a second law enforcement official saying this. it either means that the situation is all clear or that someone has heard a report that a building has been clear. so let's be a little careful with this and say that i think the whole point here is that as of at this point, well over half an hour since this report of an active shooter was phoned in or reported there's still been no confirmation of a gunman no confirmation of anyone hurt or injured. still no confirmation of exactly what happened here other than what we have been told is a security guard, a security official thought he saw two people who were suspicious. don't even know at this point whether those people were

carrying a weapon. but in any event, that's what started this response. it's completely understandable for several reasons. one is the history of what happened at the washington navy yard just two years ago when there was an active shooter. secondly, the sort of overall jitters we're living with right now because of the isis calls to supporters to attack especially people in uniform or military bases. so this hits so many check boxes that it's obvious why you're seeing this massive police response here. but despite that we still haven't any confirmation there was anyone with a gun or anyone hurt. >> pete, it's willie. how would an active shooter call come in without shots having been fired? as you said we have no confirmation of a gunman or shots fired. >> happens every day. happens every day. all around the country. schools are put on lockdown someone sees you know this happens a lot on college

campuses where somebody sees someone they think has a gun. and these active shooter calls tend to go out, whether in fact shots are fired. i emphasize, we don't know what the situation is at the navy yard yet, but to answer your question about how a call would go out without shots being fired, it happens all the time. >> all right, well we're hoping that this situation clears up in the best way possible. right now, we're looking at a massive federal, state, and local response to potential active shooter on the location at the washington navy yard. if you work at the washington navy yard you're being asked to stay home at this point. authorities are conducting a building to building search which pete brings up. we have heard an all clear, but that could be for one building. there are a lot of buildings on that campus. so we'll wait to get a double or a triple source on that. the u.s. capitol police are continuing to monitor this quote, active shooter situation.

but we say that carefully, at the washington navy yard. people are being asked to avoid the washington navy yard area even to allow first responders ss to do their job. no known threat to the complex. nothing that had been called in or reported earlier. just looking here at some information that has been handed to me. clearly, everybody -- this is from the public information officer there. they have a massive response going on right now that you can see on your screen. these are the streets outside the navy yard. employees inside are being asked to shelter in place. as they go through building by building to try to figure out whether or not the situation is under control. we have heard of two ambulances being brought into the scene, but that also as pete and jim miklaszewski are reporting, is pretty much par for the course. it doesn't necessarily mean there are karlshties or injuries at this point.

again, an active scene we're following live here at the washington navy yard in washington, d.c. phil mattingly. >> jumping off what sam said about the capitol police and underscoring pete's point. if you look at what the capitol police is doing, it explains what is going on in general. we don't know a lot of information, but the capitol police is reporting no known threat, but they have deployed strategic units around the periphery of the capitol building. that's the level of response we're seeing for a number of different reasons harkening back to 2013 and the general singeuation on the ground but another point, one of the problems in 2013 is capitol police were on the way to the naval yard and were pulled back. they have units that are there as well. it looks like at least in terms of coordination things are looking better. the capitol police who have been the most forthcoming with information to this point, underscoring the point, even with no known threat on the capitol building they're going all out to deploy. that might more than anything else explain what we're seeing on the ground. >> let's turn to law enforcement

analyst jim cavanaugh. as we said over and over again, we just don't know what's happening inside the washington navy yard right now. we have no confirmation of a shooter or shots fired. what do you make of the police and law enforcement response here. >> well willie it's just like pete said. part of the reason this response is so massive is of the disaster at the navy yard in 2013. that's on all law enforcement's mind as well. second are the alerts put out by homeland security and the fbi about isis' new posture and what they're trying to do to us here domestically, and everybody is on heightened alert. also, washington, i lived there twice. it has more cops per inch than anyplace on earth. all this is a positive thing right now, but is it really an active shooter? we don't know yet. it could be. could be fire crackers. we're into the fourth of july here. there's a lot of things to be determined. that's the job of law

enforcement, to get there and figure it out. >> jim, how has security changed at the washington navy yard since that shooting that took 12 people, 13 if you include the shooter himself. is it beefed up substantially? >> oh, yeah. the navy cares about their people. they have titaned up. you can talk about just the response here and even the capitol police has an example. you can run down a litany of the law enforcement agencies that are going to help the navy that are on base there. so yes, i think everything is tightened up. still, people can get in. they can walk by. the report from pete and others was that it was the coast guard reporting some suspicious people initially. you know what developed from that, what our suspicious people, this is a tough weekend for law enforcement as a uniformed officer i remember. this weekend and the new year's

eve, there's so many fireworks going off all the time, when you're cruising around with your window down what's going on? is it a firecracker? is it something else? when you get a report of something dangerous happening, it really heightens your senses to try to determine what it is. >> all right jim, thanks. stand by if you could. we're getting new reports. pete williams telling us that stand by units have been told not to respond. pete, what more can you tell us here? >> well that's the -- that's exactly it. you know we went through the same thing two years ago, where lots of units around the navy yard capitol police others when they heard all these reports, wanted to respond. after the initial response now, they have a list of other units they can call on sort of like the equivalent of sounding a second alarm at a fire. and we're told that the d.c. police have instructed other units not to respond to the navy yard. now, what does that mean?

what that means is that this points toward a resolution here fairly quickly. but we still can't say with any confirmation whether -- i keep saying this over and over again, but this is just the situation. we know there was a report of suspicious people that went out this morning. all the responses were which is the prudent thing to do to assume the gunshots may have been fired and to respond. there have been no confirmation that there is a gunman or gunmen. no confirmation of shots being fired. no confirmation of anyone injured. we know that they're starting to give the all clear for individual buildings. but it's a large complex. and by the way as you may well know willie, just recently reopened. after the navy yard the horrible shooting there two years ago, the building was shut down for a long time for a number of reasons. it was a crime scene and then

they wanted to do some ren renovation renovation, and then there was a lot of trauma among employees who just had real second thoughts about whether they ever wanted to go in there again. and for all those reasons, it was a long time reopening, and then there was a big reopening ceremony. this is a place that's naturally going to get a big police response. as jim cavanaugh said in an area of town where there are lots of police around that can respond. the kind of pictures you're seeing now of officers putting on protective gear and getting ready to go in this only means that they're responding to what the protocols would be for a situation like this, not that there were any shots actually fired. we await any further word here. >> okay just to underline pete's reporting here d.c. police have told standby units not to respond now to the navy yard. jim, what does that tell you? >> i think they probably determined willie something, maybe all of what has occurred there.

some initial responding d.c. metro police and navy yard police have been able to ascertain, probably, what has gone on here. they're telling the officers look we have enough. we need to search a few buildings like pete described to make sure but we have enough. this is a great response though, because we're facing this terror threat from isis. we saw the horror that the charleston emanuel church. when we have these things happen in the country, we need law enforcement to step up and come. i think that's a good thing. they need to step up and be ready to respond. you could have some sort of mumbai style attack and you need a lot of officers. my view has always been send more and we'll deploy them as needed. i didn't take the argument that we don't need the people. we need people but we need commanders to deploy them where they're needed. >> one note to add, our white house correspondent kristen welker reporting a law enforceal

official says security outside the white house has been stepped up due to the navy yard lockdown, but only as a precaution, not because they see a direct threat. they're stepping things up around the white house as well. we have tom costello live on the scene. what more can you tell us? >> hey willie. good morning to you. let me just set the scene for you here. we're about three blocks away. i'm going to ask my photographer bob williams to push in. you'll see the massive police presence which is down m street and high above, we have the orbiting or circling helicopter and continue to see police officers and units moving into the scene. that said we have seen multiple fire units and paramedic units moving in and standing by. nobody importantly from our vantage point, no unit has left the scene. so at the moment we have not seen any indication of a victim here. and the police presence at our location was really just extraordinary in terms of how robust it was. we have got, i would say at this point, hundreds of police officers on the scene from

various jurisdictions, from d.c. to federal homeland security to the navy yard. i mean it is a pretty dramatic response here following what we saw two years ago here of course, when i was here and we lost 12 people in the navy yard shooting. willie, back to you. >> tom, yeah as you reminded us less than two years ago, september of 2013 when a single man walked into the washington navy yard building 197, with a tactical 12-gauge shotgun and killed 12 people. so that's why part of the reason you're seeing this response is because of that history. >> that would explain -- go ahead, tom. >> hey, willie i was going to say, just a moment ago, i talked to somebody inside lieutenant commander in the navy. i would love to get him over here if we can. the bottom line is he told me he did not himself see any shooter. he did not see anybody down. they just were all told inside the navy yard just get out. get out of fast as you can.

they had this mass exodus from the navy yard. again, this individual said he did not see a shooter, didn't hear any shots fired and is not aware of any victims. >> one eyewitness account. a huge complex so it's possible he didn't hear it. we have no confirmation again, no confirmation of either a gunman or shots fired inside the navy yard. >> this has all unfolded if you can imagine, in the past 46 minutes. we were on the air at 8:00 eastern time. there were some reports of a possible active shooter at the d.c. navy yard. and within about five or six minutes, that place was locked down and surrounded. and buildings on the outskirts were being evacuated. roads were shut down. and every level of law enforcement was on the scene or very close to it. employees were told to shelter in place, and employees who had not arrived to work yet at the d.c. navy yard were told urgently not to come to work. again, there were u.s. military

reporting that there were sounds of shots fired on the campus. ambulances were brought in. but what we're looking at now is a massive response possibly in light of what happened a few years ago. and possibly a situation that is stabilized at this hour at the naval yard in washington, d.c. >> just in the last ten minutes, the united states navy tweeting out again, navy yard lockdown shelter continues. no further info at this time. more to follow. that lockdown still in place. >> they're going building to building, we were hearing, and basically going through each room and every crevice of every building on the u.s. navy yard. that could take several hours. to an extent it may not be definitive that the situation is stable for quite some time if it is. and certainly, something caused a series of events including panic and concern there was an active gunman or shooter on the

loose. sam stein? >> to echo was everyone says and obviously with all the caveats that everybody needs to be triple sourced and confirmed, they're going not just building to building but floor to floor, looking for any activity. anything that might be suspicious. my source at the scene says that things have actually calmed down outside. there's an incredible obviously, police presence out there. a lot of folks still not being allowed back into their buildings including the department of transportation. but he says quote, everything looks really calm. even with that presence. so perhaps things are getting a little bit under control. obviously, we still need to wait and see what exactly took place to cause this morning panic. >> again i would remind people that when the shooting happened in september of 2013 the man spent more than an hour inside the building shooting before he was fatally hit. so he began shooting around 8:15 in the morning and was finally shot and killed at about 9:25

that day. this was a long process to go through these complexes, to clear buildings, to clear floors. it could take a while before we get a full all-clear from the united states navy. >> very quick response, though and certainly a little bit of upheaval in washington, d.c. as buildings are being evacuated and the navy yard is on lockdown. and employees at this point told not to come to work. very hard to get a sense of exactly what happened inside there, but something touched off a massive response from federal authorities on down to d.c. police. and we still don't understand what happened inside the navy yard yet. but all signs point to some sort of situation involving an active shooter. perhaps that person is restrained at this point. perhaps that person has disappeared. given what happened a few years ago at the d.c. navy yard this

response was quick and warranted. it's 50 past the hour and we're following breaking news out of washington, d.c. right now, as the lockdown continues at the washington, d.c. navy yard. we do know ambulances have been brought into the situation. the fbi confirmed they are responding but would not say what they're responding to. u.s. marshals were on the scene as well and we also had employees being told to shelter in place, and reports that federal officials were going through every single building on the location of the navy yard which could indicate could indicate they don't necessarily know whether or not they have everybody that they are looking for. very hard to cover this at this point from the outside looking in. tom costello got as close as he could and was able to talk to people who were working inside the navy yard who did not see anything. there was one report willie of security seeing two suspicious people, but again, no word of

shots fired, just words from the u.s. military that gunshots were heard at the scene of the navy yard. >> and pete williams reminds us we don't have confirmation there is an active shooter. jim cavanaugh telling us these calls come in all the time and they can be for any reason. if you see something suspicious if you hear something suspicious sometimes that sets off an active shooter call. we don't know inside the building right now, isn't that right, jim? do we have jim cavanaugh with us? >> yeah i'm still here. >> go ahead, jim. >> yeah when you're law enforcement, you don't mind making these responses. that's one thing the public should understand. i have been on so many of these, all officers are -- you respond and it turns out to be not violence or not a bomb or somebody left something or some people ran away and committed no crime. that's okay. that's an easy day for law enforcement. rather be called on ten of those, 100 of those, but want to be called on the right one.

so this is a good exercise whoever called it in it could still be a real active shooter. >> yeah witness -- >> doesn't matter either way. good response. >> a witness that we just have a log from an interview saying i'm not sure what we heard, but everyone was yelling to get out of the building, get out of the cafeteria, get out of the building, i don't know what agency it was, the police came to the door it was kind of surreal going back there, but here we are again, i guess referring to the shooting a couple years ago. we have been doing active shooter drills everything went well. we tested our alarms but we're not sure exactly what happened. >> you could understand why everyone in the complex would be on edge after what they went through. >> e-mailing back and forth with a law enforcement official not confirming or denying anything but he said it's important to keep in mind this response is a

direct result of what happened in 2013, the changes made after. his point being just because it's a huge response doesn't mean there's necessarily something major going on. this is how things are now in the wake of 2013 and with the security concern. >> jim miklaszewski standing by. what else do you have? >> u.s. officials here military and defense officials say again, there were reports that people heard shots fired but never any confirmation. nevertheless, it could take some time, they say, for this situation to be entirely resolved. because given the actual reports, even though unconfirmed, they're taking no chances. so they will meticulously and very cautiously go room to room clearing each room and then once they're cleared, designating that shutting it down and declaring it cleared to make sure there is no shooter on the ground. there couldn't be anything worse than to have everybody there than to leave and actually have an active shooter emerge later. but so far, they report that

there still is no confirmation that there were actually any shots fired or any active shooter. but as many of your guests here have said today, that incident back in 2013 in which 12 were killed by a lone gunman was looming in everybody's mind this morning. not to mention pile on the fact that homeland security has issued a nationwide alert for everybody to be cautious this fourth of july holiday weekend because of potential threat from lone wolf isis sympathizers this weekend. so you throw all that together and it explains why we have seen this massive police response at the navy yard. >> having said that the timing and location make it especially sensitive, and would call for a massive very quick response. not that they wouldn't do that anyway, but jim, at the same time, something's going on in there that caused for this. because this is you know at this point we're an hour into this wrrbs and they're not letting people come to work. and as far as we have been told

employees are told to shelter in place, and i haven't heard that changing. >> that's right. but again, they want to be particularly cautious careful, and more importantly, thorough in their search. it's a big building. it's an even larger complex. so one would think that they may have to spread out because if indeed there were shots fired, that doesn't mean the gunman if there was one, is still in place there in the main navy yard building. so one could understand why people are still locked in place and told to seek shelter. because there's no confirmation one way or the other. but i can tell you, given the early response from people at dod and the military they thought from the very beginning that this may have been somewhat of an overreaction, but again, they're not criticizing it. they're in fact pointing to the evidence here today that this

response, if it would have happened in 2013 might have mitigated the tragedy then. there have been a lot of lessons learned and a lot of training put into place. that's why i think this episode, even though again, no gunman or shots fired has been confirmed, that's why it's taking so long to resolve this situation. >> let me add to that pullback just told that two federal officials are telling nbc that no gunshots were heard. no actual gunshots were heard at the navy yard. so sort of on the periphery, we have heard about two suspicious people being seen. we don't have that confirmed. we had reports of an active shooter. we don't have that confirmed. the only thing we had confirmed was there was a massive response, which we could see for ourselves. the lockdown continues. employees being told to shelter in place.

per d.c. ems, we have officially word from d.c. ems, pete and jim, that there are no injuries being treated on the scene at all. so again, more pulling back. this story that broke about an hour ago, of an active shooter on the site of the d.c. navy yard. we had a pretty big evacuation taking place on the periphery of the navy yard. we had employees being told to not come to work. if you work at the navy yard don't come in today. we had a massive response on the federal level from the fbi to the u.s. marshals to homeland security, down to the d.c. police. completely surrounding the perimeter of the navy yard while folks in assault gear went inside and locked the place down. and as our nbc correspondents pointed out, employees were sheltering in place, and every single building and every single room and every single closet

and every single crevice of that navy yard is being searched before they stand down. so the situation that appears to be pulling back dialing back possibly even under control. not over yet. at the d.c. navy yard because we had in the past hour a report of an active shooter on the campus of the d.c. navy yard prompting this massive response. so we're looking at this scene, which hopefully is winding down. it's still very active in washington, d.c. stay with msnbc for complete coverage. ayman mohyeldin will pick up the coverage as we stay with the breaking news here on msnbc. we begin with breaking news. federal and local law officials have responded to the d.c. navy yard. employees who have not arrived

to work are told to stay at home at this time. authorities on the scene were responding to initial reports of a possible active shooter on the loose in the washington navy yard. we have seen a huge response by federal and local law enforce lt officials as well as ambalances and helicopters above. we should make it clear, again no confirmation of a gunman or gunpet shots heard at this time. there are no reports of injuries. i want to bring in analyst and former fbi profiler clint van zandt. thank you very much for joining us. >> yeah. >> i was wondering in a situation like this what is the initial response aimed at trying to do? >> well i think you've got a two-level response. number one, you have the normal response you would get to a potential shooting. obviously, it was in september 2013, there was an actual shooting in the d.c. navy yard. as you recall that was a