of one nation that we claim we seek. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. fast times at republican high. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with where things stand in the republican contest for president and the man sucking up most of the oxygen in the room donald trump. rudy giuliani is the former mayor of new york and knows trump well. thanks for coming on. hillary clinton was asked about donald trump's comments on immigration. here's what she said. >> i'm very disappointed in those comments. and i feel very bad and very disappointed with him and with

the republican party for not responding immediately and saying enough, stop it. but they are all, you know in the same general area on immigration, you know. they don't want to provide a path to citizenship. they range across a spectrum of being either grudgingly welcome or hostile toward immigrants. and i'm going to talk about comprehensive immigration reform. i'm going to talk about all of the good law-abiding, productive members of the immigrant community that i personally know that i've met over the course of my life that i would like to see have a path to citizenship. >> mr. mayor what do you think of that? you're chuckling away there. what do you think of hillary's attack on your base, the guy from new york that's making all the noise right now? >> her general statement about the republican party is untrue. i mean it was president bush who proposed comprehensive

immigration reform which included a path to citizenship. senator lindsey graham who paid a pretty big price for it in south carolina in the primary. i've always been in favor of comprehensive immigration reform. john mccain. and the last comprehensive immigration reform was passed by my boss ronald reagan. and i helped to work on that back in 19 -- was it '86, '87. >> that never got enforced. >> which is part of the problem. and so i think it's a mistake for hillary to make it a partisan issue because one of the candidates made the statement that he made. donald always a friend of donald's a friend of mine. i respect him. he's an unbiased man. he said it in reverse. what he should have said is most people that come across the border, come across the border for economic reasons. but, but -- >> i think he said to rape

people basically. >> hidden with them because they're coming across unchecked are people who rape people murder people kill people and are terrorists. i've prosecuted all of them. and the reality is neither side wants to meet each other here. republicans want to secure the border which could be done with about 20,000 border patrol agents, 50 miles apart, stop them from coming in. then, on the other side you have to allow people to come in with visas so they can do the jobs that have to be done in america. if you were to literally close the border you might as well give up the wine industry in california. i mean it's gone. >> i know. >> so you're going to have to set up a visa program to allow these people to come in. >> of course. mayor, we all know the answer. look you've sized -- >> it isn't just republicans, chris. it's the democrats, too. >> would you trust either party to enforce the laws about illegal hiring? would you trust either party to

enforce that law? >> neither party -- >> i know they want cheap labor. >> used to drive me crazy. >> cheap labor. the democrats want votes. let's face it. >> when i was the mayor of new york i had a very big crime problem. what i wanted the immigration service to do was deport the criminals that we convicted. >> yeah. >> i would go to them and they would not put the criminals on the front of the line. they'd be throwing out the guy who was working in the back room of a restaurant or a gardner before they throw out the drug dealer. so somebody has to -- >> i think you're a practical person and i am too. no matter how partisan you have to be when you come on these shows, you know that neither party has the guts to come down with a fair progressive, flexible immigration policy that they intend to enforce. i got to get gakback to donald trump. all these companies have gotten rid of him. nbc, macy's serta, farouk

systems. now the mayor of new york de blasio, says he wants to get rid of trump doing any business with him. are they being fair to donald trump? >> they're overdoing it. it's a pilon. i don't agree with donald's comment. i would say it totally differently. but i think they're overdoing it. and the conclusion that he comes to that we have a porous border that needs to be controlled better is the correct conclusion. and if we can do that then if we can do that if we can stop illegal immigration and if we can have a visa program for the workers that we need then i would be very much in favor of a legalization program for the people that are here because it's unrealistic to think. >> i'm with you on that. isn't the reason why people like trump who are outliers i won't say demagogues, although i think it's a demagoguery here they

won't get any farther because the fact that neither republicans or democrats have been able to get through an effective policing of the border, effective policing of illegal hiring that gives an opportunity for someone to come in from the cold because nobody's gotten that done trump can walk out there and say at least as bad of language as i used as ethnically obnoxious as i can be at least you know i mean it. that must be why people are for him in the polling. >> that has something to do with it. he has focused on one major part of the problem, but there are four other parts of the problem that have to be solved as well. the visa part the road to some kind of regularization and a sensible policy for how you deal with the people in the u.s. now, they talk about sanctuary cities. in new york city i allowed illegal immigrants to use our hospitals. when they reported crime, i didn't report them because i wanted their information so i

could catch other criminals. and if they put their children in school i didn't report them. however, if they committed a crime, i not only reported them i put them in jail and tried to get the i.n.s. to deport them. and they would deport 1 out of 5 and i was constantly pressuring them to do more. what happened in california shouldn't have happened. the guy that was convicted that many times should never have been allowed back into the united states. so we have a policy that is all messed up. >> i agree. let me ask you about this republican race. because you're pro choice and in fact you're for gay rights pretty much down the line. now the republican party seems to have three brackets. the hawks, which everybody is a hawk in the republican party, the evangelists which are against gay rights at all and certainly against abortion rights and they're still fighting that battle. that includes people like santorum cruz huckabee.

and he's kind of a guy that says stay out of the middle east. how is that all going to get brokered together in your party where somebody will come out on top that's hawkish enough traditional enough and libertarian enough in other words, less government enough to add up into a party that can get 51% against hillary clinton? >> i think it has to be emphasis on the economy and national security. i'm a republican for those two reasons. on the other reasons, i'm a moderate or whatever else you like to call me. i don't mind being called a hawk on national security policy. i am. i believe in a strong america that has to assert itself. >> nobody is arguing with you, mr. mayor. >> i believe in fiscal discipline. i've lowered taxes dramatically. i would do it if i was sitting in the white house. but i also believe -- i have a theory about the republican party. if we're the party of lesser government, if we're going to stay out of your pocketbook shouldn't we stay out of your bedroom as well? >> let me ask you this.

can the republican party win if it opposes a path to citizenship down the line? >> i think they have to -- no i think the republican party has to say that if you get proper control over the border then there's going to be a road to -- a lot of them would like to say regularization, you know legal status. i'd like to see them say citizenship. and i believe governor bush said citizenship. so i'm pretty happy with that. >> if they stay the pro life party, can they get away with it with women out there for hillary. can they convince enough american women to vote pro life and anti-hillary both? >> i think so. there's enough established that that's now the constitutional more of the united states along with this conservative court that no president can really interfere with that. >> so let me ask you about climate. can they continue to be skeptics about science? the republican party. >> i think the republican party has to admit that 90 95% of the

scientists looked at it in a certain way, whether you agree with them don't agree with them carbon emissions, all these emissions aren't good for you anyway so i don't know why we don't support clean air. >> i'm with you. i don't think your party is. >> 5% to 10% think it isn't man-produced. what's the difference? it's still dangerous. if you want to go so far as to destroy businesses and to destroy energy we have to do it in a careful way. some of the way-out environmentalists are just as bad as the ones who are unwilling to accept any form of climate change. >> jerry simon of "the wall street journal." he goes to my church. i like the guy. he's not a big fan of donald trump on a lot of grounds but he said the republican party has a lot of working guys in the party. not all late money guys. working people that work with their hands, work hard and they look up to giuliani -- they look

up to you. i'm sorry. i made a mistake. >> i hope they do. >> they look up to trump. he's got a beautiful wife lives in a gold tower, he says what he feels and thinks like. he's a wise ass. explain that appeal if you can. >> yeah i can. dunt matter. john kennedy was a multimillionaire and he was able to speak very well to the regular guy and so was ronald reagan. he was an actor, i guess he was a multimillionaire, i'm pretty sure he was. >> but they were polite. this guy's not polite. >> you know but he appeals to people. also donald did make it on his own. he's had his ups and downs. >> he started with a pretty good -- >> he started off with a queens business that his dad had and built it into an empire. people respect that in america. and he talks their language. he tells them what he thinks and i think people are starving for that because everything is sound bites, everything is scripted. you finish one of these

presidential debates and if you said one thing a little bit wrong you have like a revolution. >> let me ask you a question spontaneously. who would you like to see win the nomination of your party? >> i have to give you a couple of people. i like bush a lot. i still admire very much my friend chris christie. kasich, scott walker rubio. >> rubio, too? >> he'd be a fine president. george pataki who i became very close to. he's certainly -- and carly fiorina looks to me like a great vice presidential candidate. >> you are kissing everybody on the cheek. you don't have a favorite. >> maybe you have to look at the order in which i said to get a hint. >> it was such a long list i forget where it began. >> it began with jeb bush. >> thank you. i think jeb bush still can win this thing in the long run, very long run. thanks for coming on. reaction from what we just heard from giuliani about lou the big money men in the

republican party are getting nervous about the brass knuckle nastiness we're seeing in that republican field out there. it is nasty. plus former president jimmy carter is coming to "hardball" tonight live. we'll ask him about the hot topics of the day, the iranian nuclear talks, gay marriage and why eshe's not ready to support hillary clinton. it's tuesday, time for the right wing clown car to come by. there's plenty of room in that car for all those clowns. finally, let me finish with why now is the time to reserve judgment not to pick a president because nobody's serious yet. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line.

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welcome back to "hardball." looks like some big republican donors are getting nervous about how things are going. he wrote to the 16 candidates out there, quote, would you join the effort to inspire a more civil way of making their points? if they drift off the civility reservation, let's all immediately communicate that to them. he said he had the backing of big money people. another donor john jordan said the party should block trump from the debates. quote, someone in the party ought to start some sort of petition saying if trump's going to be on the stage, i'm not going to be on there with him. i'm toying with the idea of that he said. the examiner said they warned candidates to stay away from trump. trump is a suicide bomber. as a competing campaign your only hope to avoid the blast is that he doesn't have a reason to show up at your doorstep.

anyone who utters the name trump runs the risk of a seven-day jihad from a guy who has absolutely no sense of appropriateness or -- by the way, i would have kept his name out of this. i'm joined by gene robinson susan page and national political reporter for "the washington post." robert, why don't you start. nobody has the nefbrve to take on trump but hides his name. >> no one wants to get into the ring with donald trump. the republican voters say the candidates out there. they're all staggered around 5% in the polls. why get involved with trump and have a fight you may not win. >> how do you avoid the fight? remember those scenes in baghdad of uday and qusay? you don't want to be at the restaurant, who is looking at my girlfriend out there. no eye contact. you want to avert your glance. >> exactly. >> from this guy.

>> in his sight. >> if you're george bush and you do have a family which is related to mexico and here's the guy pounding away at the rapists coming across the border how do you avoid the fight? it's personal. >> if you're jeb bush i don't think you can. if you're ted cruz -- >> cruz has agreed with him. >> agreed with him, said nice things. >> he's rubbing up against him. >> i disagree with him, but i still like him. >> responding to trump's inflammatory comments marco rubio, trump's comments are not just offensive and inaccurate but also divisive. he wasn't the only republican to go after trump. let's watch him. >> everybody has a belief that we should control our borders, but to make these extraordinarily ugly kind of comments is not reflective of the republican party. trump is wrong on this. politically we're going to win

when we're optimistic and big and broad rather than a grr just angry all the time. this is an exaggerated form of that. and there is no tolerance for it. >> donald trump does not represent the republican party. i was offended by his remarks. he's going to have to defend those remarks. i never will and i will stand up and say those are offensive, which they are. >> donald, let me tell you right now, i'm willing to debate you here in new hampshire mano a mano any time on the issue of immigration and pit your ideas against my solutions. i hope you say yes. >> so he's talking spanish in defending mexico mano a mano. not surprisingly trump punched back. >> i know pataki well. he's a sad figure. he's got zero in the polls and he was a terrible governor of new york. as far as rubio, he's very weak on immigration. he's weak on immigration. when i look at somebody like perry who was the governor there

for a long period of time he could have done something a little bit maybe a lot more in terms of protecting people. it's hard to believe i'm second to bush because bush is not going to get us to the promised land folks. i tell you, this guy -- i don't want to say he's a stiff because that's too rude. then they will say i'm not a nice person. but you know can you imagine him negotiating against china? >> you know i don't know whether he's the kid in high school who was the bully or he's the guy robert de niro played -- you talking to me? you talking to me? that guy on the subway waiting for someone to come after him. amazingly aggressive. >> if he said bush is stiff, then we're going to say he's rude? ignore all the other -- i guess i disagree. i think it's an opportunity. jeb bush has no recourse. he has to respond to the attacks on him. but the rest of the field, a chance to be a part of debate. donald trump is taking all the oxygen out of the room.

for the candidates that aren't jeb bush or donald trump, it's a way to get some attention and to stand up to a guy who appeals to only a part of the republican party. >> archimedes the one thing he loved was the world. and he's found illegal immigration. it doesn't sound like anyone is pushing back. we're taking care of that. we've got this under control. because nobody has it under control. no politician in the party says i've got this sealed up. chuck schumer are good on immigration reform. among the candidates i don't know who is serious about what to do. >> it's not that we've got it under control, it's that your remedy isn't a remedy and your analysis isn't factual. >> who will do that? >> i think jeb bush better do it. >> is he credible as a guy who will stop illegal immigration? >> i think he could be credible. >> people love trump as a foil. >> they're telling you that? >> the bush allies are.

i've been talking to bush people all day. they say bring on trump. he provides a contrast. have him on the debate stage against bush. they like that contrast. know who is unhappy calling around the campaigns? all the conservative contender because those small dollar donors, they're applauding trump. rand paul mike carson mike huckabee. this is supposed to be the summer of the groundswell, they're not seeing it. >> he's making the oxygen out of the room. >> he is. >> trump taps into a vein of pop list anger. today many of them feel economically threatened and marginalized by cultural change. some cite a decline in values. they aren't the genteel patricians of republican stereotype but they are republicans nonetheless and, yes, trump is speaking to them. >> as a moral paragon? >> they don't like same-sex. >> well there's not a total

connection there but nonetheless, take the point that there is this segment of the republican party that he does speak to. clearly he does. look at the numbers in the poll. >> they're looking up at that gold tower. that guy lives up there. he owns it. >> but to be clear, he said 10%, 11%, 12%. and he's got a -- so when you've got 16 candidates that looks pretty good. >> everybody in america knows who jeb bush is and eight out of ten or nine out of ten regularly say somebody else. i think bush has got a much bigger problem. he has all the name i.d. >> they're not the only two options republicans have. >> i was talking to trump's people. they disagree with his characterization that he's populist. everyone is calling him a populist. he's an outsider. he's anti-establishment. he doesn't have a coherent political philosophy. this is the outsiders versus

insiders period. this is not a campaign in the ideological sense. >> it's the summer before the election, this isn't the time to pick a president. it's a time to make a statement. you vote for him, you make a statement a lot of people feel. pollster votes. that's all you get right now is pollster votes. gene robinson susan page and robert costa. will he be at the top of the polls after the debate? >> maybe, actually. >> expectations will be so low if he exceeds them. >> he might be number one. jimmy carter is here with his thoughts on the iranian nuclear talks. and the race coming up next year. that's ahead with president carter. if you misplaced your discover card you can now use freeze it to prevent new purchases on your account in seconds. and once you find it you can switch it right on again. you're back! freeze it, only from discover. get it at discover.com.

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as unlikely. his victory in 1976 was the result of character and timing. his earnest campaign vow to never tell a lie struck a nerve with an electorate still dealing with distrust after watergate. his four years as president represents a fraction of the very long career that has shaped his outlook on politics. now he's out with his 29th book "a full life." his achievements over nine decades as well as the lessons he learned when he fell short. i'm joined right now by the author himself, former president jimmy carter. mr. president, sir, i'm glad to have you on the show. is it still possible -- you write in your book the old story about how one guy can go out there with a lot of character and say, i'm jimmy carter i'm running for president, without a ton of money, retailing it it person to person in iowa. can a person man or woman, democrat or republican still get elected the absolute clean way without the big bucks and the

super pacs? >> no. >> well, that's an answer. >> it's impossible now. the whole democratic process in america's been subverted by the massive influx of money brought about by the stupid ruling of the citizens united. and now i don't think anyone can hope to get the democratic or the republican nomination unless they're able to raise say $200 million or more. when i ran against gerald ford who was an incumbent president, he and i raised zero as far as our contributions were concerned. we used the one dollar per person checkoff and that was done until through the 2004 election. and it was after that that people began to cry for money and donors were willing to give as an investment for their own benefit in the future and, of course, the supreme court has been the main culprit i think in subverting this democratic system in this way. >> let me ask you about that whole question -- first of all, let's get back to some of the ideas you had. i didn't find this in the book but i knew you believed in it.

we would better have served with a six-year term. the process for running for re-election is not healthy. six years is enough to get through your programs and get out of there. are you still of that opinion? >> i still am. but i think a six-year term would be the best for our country. >> let me ask you about the iranian debate. you write in the book the thing we all went through when nobody like you had to go through it. the iranian hostage situation. you didn't get them home alive, all 50 people. which was quite an achievement. and they didn't screw you at the end. >> i remember that. >> you weren't the only one that remembered that mr. president. but you had to pay the price politically. now when you watch the good work that john kerry's doing over in vienna. how do you think your experience i went through that hell for a year. they're trying to deal with that same position some promoted in

the big positions, those so-called students. >> after the shah was overthrown what people don't remember is i quickly normalized relations with the ayatollah khomeini and the government. it was my ambassadors to the iranian government that was taken hostage. they had about 50 representatives of iran here in washington. so i think now and i've always thought it was better for the united states and iran to keep communications open, and i believe that this present negotiation might bring about a change in iran's movement toward a nuclear weapon is very well advised. i pray that it will be successful. if it is successful it would be the best solution to the problem. >> let's get to the book again. i think i remember this but you've certainly laid it out here. ted kennedy, the hero of health care all those years, the champion of health care basically undercut your attempt to actually do it when you were

president. >> that's correct, yes. we had six committees that had responsibility for that. all six of us worked with us in a very harmonious way to develop a comprehensive health program that would have been successful would have been paid for, it would have been almost applicable to every person in america and up until the last week all of those six committee chairmen were in favor of it. but at the last minute ted kennedy decided he would go against its and he did and he was powerful enough and influential enough to kill the whole program. i have to say there was a major commitment on a political basis because it was about that time he decided to run for president. and i presume he didn't want to see me get a big advantage in the political polls by having a successful commitment. >> there's another nugget in your book which i'm not sure what it is. you said that gerry ford talking about alexander haig that you didn't think much of when he was head of nato you said that he had some kind of

deal with nixon through haig to get nixon to resign the presidency in '74 under the agreement that he would definitely get a pardon from ford. how do you know that happened? >> i don't know that it happened. i don't have any way to know that. i didn't say that in the book by the way. i don't know what kind of arrangement ford and nixon had. if ford said they didn't have it, i would completely agree with what he said because i have absolute confidence that he's a truthful and honest man. >> well you did say alexander haig played a key role in negotiating between president nixon and vice president ford concerning a full pardon for nixon if he would resign. >> i don't think there's any doubt that haig went back and forth between them. whether ford agreed to that i do not know. i think that's what haig wanted. obviously haig later said he was in charge of that and was involved in it. i trusted ford. i can't say that i trusted haig as much. >> i notice that came pretty clear in book.

and it's a hell of a book. you have to sing for your dinner tonight, mr. president. what do you think of hillary clinton? why haven't you endorsed her yet? she's the front-runner. will you endorse her tonight? >> i have never endorsed a democratic candidate early in the campaign or much later. i don't intend to endorse a particular candidate before the convention. i don't think there's much doubt that hilly is going to get the nomination. when she does i'll be eager to support her. >> would you be eager to oppose donald trump if he was the republican nominee? >> trump gives you a lot to talk about on your program. he contributes one thing to you and everybody else. but i think what he said is absolutely wrong and obnoxious. i think he did it deliberately to titillate interest which he's succeeded in doing. i think maybe 10 or 15% of people in the republican party agree with what he said and he's capitalizing on that but i believe that's the limit to what he'll get. >> i'm personally curious, prpt.

you know i'm a big fan of yours. what do you do to live till 90? the name of theit is not drinking not smoking? is it a moral thing or something more athletic. what is it that has kept you so healthy mentally and physically in. >> the main thing is marrying the right woman, which i did 69 years ago today. this is my anniversary, as a matter of fact. >> congratulations to you and roslyn. >> that's been the main chief of my life is marrying rosalynn. i'm very proud of that. she's a good dietitian. she's our cook at home. we take exercise and we're lucky in our health. she's three years younger than i am. she's 87 and also in good health, thank goodness. we've been lucky and we married the right person for ourselves and we try to live the best we can. >> well, you know some people write memoirs, they have nothing

to talk about in their book. you wrote a memoir with a hell of a lot to talk about. the book's called "a full life: reflections at 90." thank you, mr. president, president jimmy karltcarter. thanks for letting me work for you. >> you were a good speech writer, maybe not enough in 1980. >> the best i could do. they aren't doing the party any help by supporting trump. shopping online... ...is as easy as it gets. wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers carpenters and even piano tuners... were just as simple? thanks to angie's list now it is. start shopping online... ...from a list of top rated providers. visit angieslist.com today. when a moment spontaneously turns romantic why pause to take a pill?

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hi richard lui in the msnbc newsroom. two are dead after a small plane and fighter jet collided over south carolina. the pilot of the f-16 ejected

safely. subway and its spokesman jared fogle are mutually agreeing to sis spend its relationship. it comes same day his home was raided by authorities. the search is related to a child pornography case involving former jerod foundation executive director russell taylor. fogle is cooperating with authorities and has not been charged or arrested. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." a busy week in the crazy world of american politics. we've got a loaded-up clown car tuesday tonight. the conservative blowback intensifyies over the supreme court ruling on same-sex marriages with ted cruz and steven king leading the charge. while donald trump has turned radioactive for the party.

and the former communications director at the democratic national committee. steve king of iowa. unbelievable. he and ted cruz are driving the clown car as the hard right continues its war with the supreme court's ruling on same-sex marriages. here's steven king with his call to impeach the justices and retry the case. >> if that were put up before me today, and i think that i mentioned ginsburg and kagan as being two that had been conducting same-sex marriages on their spare time and did not recuse themselves, i would put up the vote to remove them from office. and i'd like to see that case heard again. and it would come down 4-3 and in the end it would come back to the states for that decision where it should be. i don't know if the public is ready for that. >> that's a nice caveat. i'm from another planet in other words. here's what ted cruz told the local press in iowa. >> there is right now a liberal intolerance that seeks to punish

and persecute those who follow a biblical teaching of marriage. that is scary. it is wrong. and it's contrary to who we are as an american people. >> ted cruz the senator, will be on tomorrow. first of all impeachment. it's always the play for the side that loses. for some reason the democrats don't call immediately for impeachment, but republicans do. >> sometimes do. i think there are plenty of -- >> let's get rid of these -- >> probably not in the judicial context so much as the george w. bush context. but yes -- >> you guys got -- >> yeah my point is just that there are people -- >> bill clinton by not calling people his friends. >> one of the things that i find interesting here is that you have steve king and ted cruz going all the way while you have some other candidates that are actually talking about judicial reform not necessarily in the

context of the gay marriage decision. but in other context. >> how about election retention? >> right. that's what i mean ted cruz is talking about that rand paul ben carson. >> so all judges are going to have super pacs? can you imagine these guys taking the robes off and doing talk shows. the money to run for president. to keep your job as justice of the supreme court you could so easily lose if you have an opinion the country doesn't like. >> i think there are bigger problems with that proposal. >> give me a bigger one. >> you have republican candidates that are talking about judicial term limits. that's a more reasonable proposal than what you're seeing from ted cruz. when you talk about recusal and ethics, a better question about who is performing gay marriages is kagan was solicitor general. maybe she should have recused herself from the obama care case. steve king does have a proposal on judicial reform that i don't think is totally crazy, shocking. cameras in the supreme court.

there's a lot of bipartisan -- >> fruit cantaloupes. fdr won a big election in '36. what did he do? he tried to pack the court and put age limits on the guys. added judges that he'd like to pick. people don't like people messing with the court. >> no i think that's right. i don't think this will sit well with most voters. but it's a primary play but not benefiting the republican party. your friend and mine and dan balls had an article the other day about what is happening with who people are identifying with. democrat identification is going up, republican identification is going down. it has to do with positions like this on gay marriage. it has to do with immigration. >> well, we'll see. donald trump's following is actually growing. in addition to ted cruz ben carson's defending trump. carson blamed the blowback from trump's comments about mexican rapists coming across the border by saying it's the pc police out

in force. they want to make shr clear that this is a topic you're not supposed to bring up. hm. hm. so why are they defending him? >> i have no idea. as a communication strategist generally doing things that make your opponent in a primary look good and make it look like you're going me too, me too, is probably not very intelligent strategy. i would suggest you can maybe make a case that we need to be talking about illegal immigration. >> how about doing something about it? >> yeah. >> but neither party seems to be able to get that together. trump has democrat steve king in his corner not surprising given his other comments that they have calves the size of cantaloupes from bringing drugs over the border. >> the number i come back with is 75% are sexually abused on their way to the united states. so i would say in donald trump's defense somebody is doing that to these kids that are being

raped and abused. when they're coming across mexico is a reasonable assumption to conclude that people doing that are mexican. >> that's not what trump said though. he said the people coming here are rapists. he didn't say they're being raped on their way here. they're looking for jobs. >> the important point you made about steve king appearing in this segment. the very first republican cattle call in this race in january was held by steve king in iowa. not every republican candidate went to it but most republican candidates went to it to kiss steve king's ring. when this trump issue kind of settles out and you take away his outlandish comments the positions are generally all the same. they oppose the path to citizenship. they're only for border -- >> okay. we'll talk about the liberal side coming up. thought? >> rubio and jeb bush did not go to this event. because they oppose -- >> pretty strongly oppose -- >> anyway the roundtable's staying with us.

up next could the success we're seeing from bernie sanders bring elizabeth warren off the sidelines and into the race? could bernie be a stalking horse? ld we'd like you to know. we don't collect killer whales from the wild. and haven't for 35 years. with the hightest standard of animal care in the world, our whales are healthy. they're thriving. i wouldn't work here if they weren't. and government research shows they live just as long as whales in the wild. caring for these whales, we have a great responsibility to get that right. and we take it very seriously. because we love them. and we know you love them too. your mom's got your back. your friends have your back. your dog's definitely got your back. but who's got your back when you need legal help? we do. we're legalzoom, and over the last 10 years, we've helped millions of people protect their families and run their businesses. we have the right people on-hand to answer your questions backed by a trusted network of attorneys.

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vo: ask your health care provider about adding novolog®. it can help provide the additional control you may need. in case you didn't notice this is a big turnout. [ cheers and applause ] we have had great turnouts all over this country. we had some 10,000 people copping out in madison. we have crowds in minneapolis. in denver. all throughout iowa. in new hampshire. look at this turnout in portland. >> how can you not like that? the it was vermont senator bernie sanders drawing huge crowds. the self-described socialist senator presenting an unuh expected challenge to hillary clinton for the democratic nomination. sanders is consolidating the

democratic wing of the party. many on the left hoped elizabeth warren would get in the race. is sanders a stalking horse? could his momentum lead er to get into the race? >> no. >> if she watches him win in new hampshire, iowa why not say i'm the president equal candidate? he's too old, a fuddy-duddy. >> he's still 19 points behind hillary in iowament it's not clear to me bernie sanders could win. also look at the crowds. all white people. lots of democrats. >> so are iowa and new hampshire. >> go to nevada. when the states are more diverse hillary is strongererer. him getting 10,000 people in madison, wisconsin, that's not much more than the howard dean. >> i'm skeptical that elizabeth

warren will get in the race. >> when shh will she run if not now? >> ever run? >> i don't think she will. i'm skeptical she would get in. >> are you allowed to say it here if you thought she height get in? >> i could sea it. i agree. >> i wonder what would happen if you win all the contests but you know you won't go the distancement do you start losing because you run out of hundred? start taking losses in indiana and california? do you think you can still win is this can he beat hillary clinton? >> i think there are people if the democratic party that are interested in his candidacy and find him exciting. he's authentic grassroots this in a way she's not. he speaks to tear ss to their issues in a i way he doesn't. >> you're poisoning the well.

>> it happens to be truement. in practice hillary clinton will address some of the concerns and try to pull those voters back in. >> i think hillary clinton won the thopnomination tr 2016 when she endorseded obama in 2008. she gave a beautiful speech. that was the deal done. >> worked hard for him after that. >> it was good for him and her. the deal was struck a long time ago. thank you, perry bacon and liz mair and brad woodhouse. when we return a reminder of what's going on now. we are not picking a president yet. we are sending messages. this is "hardball," the place for politics. our cloud can keep them safe and accessible anywhere. my drivers don't have time to fill out forms. tablets. keep them all digital. we're looking to double our deliveries. our fleet apps will find the fastest route. oh, and your boysenberyy apple scones smell about done. ahh, you're good.

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so let me finish tonight with a are reminder of the season we are in. this is not a time to pick presidents. it is july of the year before. pay attention to what people are are saying when they answer questions thousand. ss now. they are saying who they want to say, sending messages, not picking a president. that comes this winter when the iowa caucuses are held and a week later when thampnew hampshire votes. when the pollster calls. what do voters have to lose? the call comes, you are asked who you like off the list. give a name and feel satisfaction that you nudged the process a little bit in the direction you wanted it to go. yes, we'll enjoy the debates and

yes, we'll tell our friends ss who we like now and do something that's hard to do but we have a right to do -- reserve judgment. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. tonight on "all in" -- >> sit down and shut up. >> chris christie threatened with a bill that would make any new jersey governor quit if they run for president is. >> you will be the governor of new jersey at the end of this? >> that's my plan. >> a top lawmaker pushing the plan joins me. and donald trump lose it is support of the pga but gains support elsewhere. >> everyone has a right to their opinion. that's what a primary is about. >> plus rand paul equates slavery and taxes and the fallout from bill cosby's apparent admission that he gave a woman quaaludes and had sex with