lots of organizations that want him to appear and speak on their behalf and to raise money for them and he chose this one. i think did he the right thing. >> that's the debate. it is one that matters to a lot of people. that is our show. "politics nation" with reverend sharpton starts right now. tonight on "politics nation," confederate that controversy, a time for unity in south carolina. a time to fight on capitol hill. we'll go live to both. also jeb bush says he wants you to work longer. what does he mean? and what is hillary clinton saying about it? plus call me maybe? we have a special look at what may have gone down in the infamous phone call between donald trump and the rnc. you won't see this anywhere else.

thanks to you for tuning in. the confederate flag was dominating debate from the halls of congress to the heart of the confederacy. south carolina governor nicki hale just signed the bill to take the flag down from the state house grounds. that happens tomorrow morning. but as south carolina takes one big step forward, the u.s. congress takes a big step back. the house gop put forward an amendment to loupe confederate flags to fly at national cemeteries sparking an emotional reaction from democrats. >> what exactly is the tradition of the confederate flag that we're supporting? is it rape? kidnap? treason? >> make no mistake.

the confederate flag is a statement of racism. >> i cannot believe that today we have been asked to condone a backward step. >> it is a backward step. and republicans eventually pulled the entire bill. why do it in the first place? the congressman who introduced it said quote, the amendment offered last night was brought to me by leadership at the request of some southern members of the republican caucus. and politico reports those members are from mississippi, georgia, texas, alabama and virginia. today civil rights ledge enjohn lewis was inspired to rise and speak. >> the defender of jefferson

davis could admit their flag is a symbol of hate and division why can't we do it here? why can't we move to the 21st century? racism is a disease. we must free ourselves. or the way of hate, the way of violence, the way of division. >> that descendant of jefferson davis he mentioned is south carolina representative jenny horne. she spoke during a critical moment in the debate last night. >> i'm sorry. i have heard enough about heritage. i have a heritage. i am a lifelong south carolinian. i am a descendant of jefferson davis. okay? that does not matter. it is not about jenny horne!

it is about the people of south carolina who have demanded this symbol of hate come off the state house grounds. >> and her emotional speech help change hearts and minds. >> the people of charleston deserve immediate and swift removal of that flag from this grounds. >> i cannot believe that we do not have the heart in this body to do something meaningful such as take a symbol of hate off these grounds on friday. if we amend this bill we are telling the people of charleston we don't care about you. >> joining me now, msnbc

national correspondent joy reid live outside the state house, and e.j. deon. >> what was that like? >> you just played that moment when representative jenny horne whose district includes part of charleston got up and became very emotional. to give some context, that came at a moment when democrats had fallen three votes short of a compromised bill that would have allowed a clean bill to go through the house which was the requirement of the senate. otherwise, the whole thing would have collapsed. just the frustration in the claim better was building and building and building. not very many people, not enough people were crossing the horne did. and gilda cobb hunter the counter part to miss horne, an african-american member who has been in the chamber a very long

time. i remember her speaking about when she first came into the body having to pledge allegiance to a small flag on her desk because she couldn't bear the look up at the chamber where the confederate flag used to fly. directly in the face of african-american members. and of course it was moved outside. i think you hear that pain and frustration last night. >> gilda has been fighting this since 2000. when i ran for president in 2004 she had all of us really running on that. but this was not just a big moment for south carolina when these three votes could have intentionally made this fall short and go back to the state senate. this was big for the whole country. >> that's absolutely right. i mean it really is astonishing that it has taken us 150 years to come to terms with a. what the civil war was about and slavery was central, the central reason for secession which is

why that is offensive. and b, to have the flag taken down only 150 years later. and that it took the deaths of nine good people to really bring about this moment is really sobering. but it is good news that the country is coming to terms with its past. and it is impressive that there are a lot of republicans down there who have been on the other side of the flag issue who found it in themselves to say, wait a minute. this has gone on too long. this is not the right symbol for the state of south carolina. it is a huge deal for the country but it has taken us a while. >> i want to bring in democrat barbara lee from california. you and i spent time together yesterday at our policy conference. would would any member of congress put forward a bill in support of the confederate flag right now? >> you know this is

mind-boggling to me. let me tell you what happened last night. i serve on the appropriations committee. so the bill that funds our national parks was moved to the floor of congress for debate. late last night, a california member of congress congressman calvert, a republican member put forth an amendment that would allow the flying of the confederate battle flag at national parks and va cemeteries after we had removed that. for the life of me i can't understand why a member from california would do that. his public statement -- >> from california. >> right, right. i don't know why that took place. bottom line after we exposed it congresswoman betty from minnesota, thank goodness she was on the floor. she is our ranking democrat. she exposed this. so today we were in a big, big floor battle to try to make sure that the public understood what

the republicans had done in the dark of the night. finally, they removed the bill. they stopped the bill from moving forward. they cannot stand to be exposed in this way while south carolina in the midst of this tragedy and grief of what took place have done the right thing in terms of a bill to remove the confederate battle flag. so our leader pelosi congressman benny thompson from mississippi, offered a privileged resolution to try to make sure that the confederate battle flag which is incorporated in the mississippi state flag at the capitol, to remove that. of course, the republicans decided to move forward with a technical procedure and send it back to committee. it is outrageous. and i think the public is beginning to realize what we're dealing with with these house republicans. >> it is outrageous. talk about south carolina doing the right thing. they didn't just do it. standing by with joy reid is

gilda. i said before you got there -- >> hey, rev. >> you've been fighting this a long time. when i was running for president, you said you're running in south carolina about this flag. you've been fighting this for at least 15 years i know about. and i remember last week when governor haley hugged me at one of the funerals that should have come from you and representative horne gave you that hug. you are the queen of the fight. >> come on now, come on now. you know it's a team effort. and listen. you are the man. don't give me credit revv. >> let me ask you something. aside from our commending each other hour, will you feel tomorrow when that flag come down? >> rev, you know i've had my tomorrow moment already. the moment for me was last night when the speaker of the house signed the team and your crack

team from msnbc got the shot and put it out. the shot that is meaningful the speaker of the house, jay lucas, signing that bill. my other moment came today during the ceremony. not when the governor signed the bill but when the secretary of state who is the full keeper of records signed the bill. i was so touched when he said gilda, would you like to witness me signing the bill. i was so caught up. i had to look at it and touch it. and it overwhelmed me. i've had my moments. i think tomorrow is for the public. it's not about us who are elected officials. we've had our shot. tomorrow ought to be reserved for the public. it ought to be for those men, women and children and those families. you will appreciate this. i was out there at the fence

talking to people and this lady came up to me. and she thanked me. she said when i was a little girl i couldn't come on these grounds. i wanted to use the bathroom and my mama told me i couldn't. >> in the state grounds. the state grounds around the state capitol. >> this is the people's house. the people's grounds. just less than ten minutes ago, this woman shared a very, very emotional recollection of her childhood, growing up here in south carolina and what that did, reverend al was remind me of how important it was to do this. so there was no way that i was going to miss this opportunity. as you so graciously pointed out, i was here in 2000 when this happened. i was democratic leader. i know how difficult it was then. i know that i said to reporters

and everybody else who asked me that that was not closure. that we would revisit this issue. i thought, though that we would not revisit in my political lifetime. here we are, 15 years later. having this not a conversation but actual action. tomorrow that flag is gone. i want people who didn't have the opportunity i had to be in that chamber and be a part of making it law. i want them to have that bless the tomorrow. that's what it is about. that woman i me today, her wanted her daughter to witness history. that is what there is about. it is not about us electricity officials. >> and fighting even after the flak comes down.

i call her gilda. hearing what the senator says. >> i'm not a senator. >> a representative. i'm trying to run you for higher office. >> that's a demotion. >> but let me say this to you, congresswoman. given the story, what this flag means, how do you do have we get your colleagues in washington, even one from california to understand the gravity of what they're doing here? >> i want to say thank god for our representatives and the heroes in south carolina and congressman who keeps us informed on what the symbolism means. i think what we have to do is to continue to push forward. now that there's flag coming down, there is will he be and justice for all. that we work to eliminate

unemployment. to create jobs and what this flag stands for. and that's the unfinished business. in addressing jim crow. that is our highest priority in terms of policy and legislative agenda. i have to thank the representative all of those who have fought so hard for so long to get to this day. and again my thoughts and prayers go out to the families and the community of all those who we lost through this terrible tragedy. and out of this we see a glimmer of hope today. >> the shame is that it takes nine innocent lives and bible class to bring people to dealing with this. it would have been more of a shame if we lost those lives and did nothing. and something is being done in south carolina. i hope it is done all over the country. congresswoman barbara lee, joy

reid and state representative my queen of fighting confederacy. >> hey, rev, you know it's just gilda, it's just gilda. come on now. >> thank you, gilda. god bless all of the team that made this happen in the state legislature. and congratulations to the governor who i'm not always agreed with but thank you. coming up what really happened on a call from the rnc chairman to donald trump? today trump is pushing back. tonight, jeb bush says people need to work longer hours and it starts a back look. the issue of fairness is already a hot one and we have a big

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what happened on that phone call between chairman of the rnc and donald trump? today trump is pushing back. and big news on the debate rules could leave some republicans off the state.

what happened on that call? today donald trump is pushing back on a report the head of the republican national committee told him to quote, tone it down. he reportedly spent an hour on the phone with trump, urging him to tone down his inflammatory comments about immigration. but today, trump says it didn't go like that. tweeting today, totally false reporting on my call with reince priebus. he called me ten minutes, said i hit a nerve, doing well and that was in. what really happened? we don't know. but i imagine it went something like this. >> we don't have to agree with

each other on every single issue 100% of the time. but those particular comments not helpful. >> there's nothing to apologize for. there's nothing to apologize for. >> it's not just what you say. it is how we say it. >> people like what i say. they agree with what i say. i have had tremendous success. >> we have to do a lot better job and do a lot more to make up ground in minority communities. >> if i get the nomination i'll win the latino vote. i will win it. because i'll create jobs. >> joining me now is crystal ball. saying it didn't happen like that. and that he hit a nerve. i'm sure he did. that's probably not going to be disputed. what is your take on this? >> according to donald trump, reince priebus is calling to

congratulate him. it is very funny. the two very different notions of this conversation. a lot of sources now reporting that priebus did in fact tell him to tone it down and donald didn't totally deny that was part of the conversation. whatever was said there, it is clear that republicans are very uncomfortable with what he's saying and the fact that it is getting traction clrgs forces media to pay attention to this guy. it looks like he will be on the debate stage. so all of the work that the republican party did to try to make this primary process different and not have it be a clown car like it was the last time around is officially failed. it is a clown car. >> e.j. the republican candidates the republican leadership all are in a real bind here. it seems like the whole party is being trumped. >> i think that is absolutely right. i must say, i loved it when he

said to the president. he said, we're not dealing with a five star general here. so i think that gave you a sense of how much influence priebus will have on trump. this is a real mess. one as crystal said they had not done very much on immigration, for example. but any efforts they made to try to get back some decent share of the latino vote. this just blows all of that right out of the water. secondly none of these other candidates can get through. the document nanld news story is trump. we'll have a little talk about jeb bush and hillary clinton debating economics. but trump has knocked all of them out of the news. that's not very good. he could keep doing that and he creates this giant problem in

the debates where donald trump keeps out a prominent senator from south carolina the governor from ohio. >> isn't that the problem? he has knocked them out of the news with a negative news story that is bad for the party. it is not like he knocked them out because he is soaring and doing well. he is soaring in a negative way to a block that they need. isn't that the real problem? >> he is speaking to exactly the battled republican party that leaders of the party didn't want them to be. that the party can't be associated with demographically. if they're going on win any time in the near future. you can bet latinos are paying attention to not only his comments but paying attention to how all the candidates respond to those comments how quickly

they do and how strngly they. do so far i have to think they're not very impressed with the moral courage they've seen. this guy is going to implode. he's held positions that were completely contrary to some of the positions he's held now and he's not going to sit well the republican base for long. but for the moment as he major distraction. and also points out that there is this appetite in the republican base for the xenophobic talk. you can bet another candidate will try to speak to that base and to that xenophobia so they can benefit from it. >> the other thing, e.j. that he threw out today that is also threatening is that he has put out a third party run possibility. saying quote, so many people want me to run as an independent. so many people. he also said he would have to see who the gop nominee is before committing support.

a third party candidate? can you see this happening, e.j.? we did have ross perot. >> i don't know how seriously to take trump at all on anything he says to be honest with you. but i think this is something republicans are genuinely worried about. i'm sure hillary clinton, who he says is the worst secretary of state in history really smiled when he said that. as congressman tom davis said almost all his votes come out of the republican high. this is his way of saying nice little party you guys have here. it would be a shame if did i something to wreck it. and he is sort of pushing them back. the other thing i want to say. the republicans would like votes from people who agree with donald trump. and yet they don't want that message to be associated with them as publicly as he's doing it. >> that's exactly right. >> isn't it though a problem of

goals and motivation? i mean when people run for president. i know when i ran. you either run to win or you run because you want to put on a bigger cause. a bigger purpose. and you tend to conduct yourself either to win or make sure your purpose is out front and you're not hurting that. >> he is his only purpose and so far he has undermined that purpose as far as his business purpose. not only the brands including nbc that have disassociated with him but now forever going forward, his brand and the things that he wants to do in the business world will be tarnished by these comments and people won't want to work with someone who has said these kinds of ugly things. so he has tarnished his reputation, not that it was sterling. while he may be enjoying this infamy in the political world i think for the long run this has been very bad for donald trump.

>> he has no motivation to behave himself in the debates and no motivations to listen at all of and not that he will listen to me an independent run is something he should not take off the table. i think that last time we had a clinton and a bush there was a third party candidate. thank you both for your time tonight. and watch krystal on the cycle. right here on nbc. still ahead, a big fight between hillary clinton and jeb bush. all about fairness and workers' rights. plus the science behind false confessions. why some people admit to crimes they didn't do.

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the fight for economic fairness is already the issue of 2016. and now is putting the two front runners at odds. the fight started with this comment from jeb bush. >> my aspiration for the country and i believe we can achieve it is 4% growth as far as the eye can see. which means we have to be a lot more productive, work force participation has to rise from its all time modern lows. it means that people need to work longer hours and through their productivity gain more income for their families. that's the only way we'll get out of this rut that we're in. >> is he kidding? the part getting all the attention, people need to work longer hours. right now, americans are working record hours.

hillary clinton tweeted anyone who believes americans are not working hard enough hasn't met enough american workers. bush then tried to clarify saying he was talking about part time workers. >> if we're going to grow the economy, people need to be stop being part time workers and having access to greater opportunities to work. you can take it out of context all you want. high sustained mean people work 40 hours of instead of 30 hours. if anybody is celebrating this anemic recovery they're totally out of touch. people are really struggling. >> so he is trying to clarify. but his basic point is still wrong. the fact is productivity by american workers is rising. but the pay is not. that's what bush and the gop need address. joining me now, the former chief economist to vice president

biden and syndicated radio talk show host. what do you make of jeb bush's comments and his clarification? >> i thought his clarification helped him in the sense that it is true that there are definitely some part-timers out there who want to work full time. in fact many have been able to final full time work. his characterization of the current economy as apeople innic is flat wrong. the job market is improving. what really got under my skin and should be under the skin of anybody listening to him say that or to this show is this idea that if only people work more, if only they worked harder. they would start benefiting from the productivity of their work. that betrays a very deep misunderstanding. maybe an ignorance of a trend that has been going on for decades now. productivity growth has been rising. and the compensation the pay of

typical or low wage workers has been flat. it has been stagnating. if you go back to the post-war period, you had productivity doubling and wages doubling across the board. since the mid 1970s, productivity is up about 75%. wages over those 40 years are up only about 9% for the typical worker. so the idea, and by the way, that's what's wrong with his 4% growth idea. everybody is for higher growth. he never says how it will get there. serve for higher growth. unless you're willing to create the architecture, to help re-create that growth. you won't really get anywhere people need to go. if you look at the jeb bush policy, that architecture is missing. >> joe, you know we've heard jeb bush give his clarity or try to give clarity to what he said. but the fact is he has not supported minimum wage and he is

not supported things like a call for raising the social security retirement age, he said. listen. >> we need to leave it to the private sector. i think state minimum wages are fine. the federal government shouldn't be doing this. >> there are things i think raising the retirement age, for example. >> they have built a spider web that traps people in perpetual dependence. >> is this why what he said about working longer hours, giving minimum wage position given this position on raising the retirement age, is this why this hit a nerve? and is really in line with positions he's already taken? >> let me tell you, this is crazy and i'm not the economist but i think he could back me up on this. today's minimum wage probably is equivalent to what 40 years ago. that is the reality. you are absolutely right. you're talking about south carolina.

there is a state, after that flag comes down, that does not have a state minimum wage. here's the other thing. all you have to do is wake up early in the morning like i do early every morning to go to work and see the buses, the bus loads of people up before the sun is up. talk to the young people in this country who are working in malls and many simply change uniforms. they work 18 hours, 20 hours. some have to work in some cities. two or three jobs. and here's the final thing. there are wages going up. the wages of ceos are hundreds of time more than the people they employ. >> you know hillary clinton tweeted a shot to jeb bush. one that we use here.

we use this chart here. since 1973 worker productivity is up almost 75%. but pay is just up 9%. workers are more productive than ever but they're not getting paid for it. >> press. precisely. that's what i was making that point earlier. this assumption that simply through growth working harder they'll somehow imaginally start to benefit from their productivity growth is completely disproven by that simple picture. i've been tracking those numbers since the mid 1990s. as you can see, the gap continues to grow. now, there was one period in there where the gap was not growing as quickly. that was the latter 1990s when we had a full employment economy and workers, middle income low income workers, the folks joe was talking about. they had a bit more bargaining hour. the reason you have to worry, and i say worry deeply about the economic agenda this growth

only that assumption leads to you conclude that the problem has nothing to do with bargaining hour, minimum wage nothing to do with the inequality problem. it is not that people aren't working hard enough smart enough. that analysis is fundamentally wrong. we actually need the kind of reconnection agenda that we've begun to talk about in this conversation if we're ever going to close that gap. >> thank you for your time only the. >> thank you. coming up the science behind false confessions. why would someone confess to a crime they didn't commit? plus beyonce is making a big announcement and it has to do with msnbc. push your enterprise and you can move the world. but to get from the old way to the new you'll need the right it infrastructure.

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in 2006 a nebraska couple was brutally murdered in their own home. police quickly focused on the couple's nephew matthew. a former special education student with no criminal history. after 11 hours of interrogation, he confessed. >> let it go. then i pulled that trigger and shot her. and then she screamed more and

then i just -- >> you just what buddy? >> put the gun to her face and blew it away. >> but it turns out, matthew livers was innocent. he spent more than seven months in jail before charges were dropped. but what could cause someone to confess to a crime they didn't commit? and why didn't officials realize they had the wrong man? there seems to be unfairness in our justice system all around us. studies show attractive defendants get lighter sentences. their parole boards are lighter and jurors are more likely to place trust in a person of their own race. all of this is unfair. the science of unfair criminal justice. joining me now, the book's

author, an associate professor of law at drexler university. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> there's a lot in this book. let's start with confessions. what could prompt someone to admit to a crime they didn't do? >> i think it all come down to the most commonly used interrogation procedure in the united states. the way that this works in many police departments is the suspect is brought in into a windowless room. the first job of detective is to prove whether the person is lying. the things the detectives are told to focus on are demeanor cues jittery limbs and what the best available science tells us is that these are terrible ways to determine if someone is lying. there are plenty of guilty people who will look you straight in the eye and tell that you they didn't do it. and there are plenty of people who are naturally just more nervous. the problem with this is that

once someone is determined to be lying, the comes switch to simply getting a confession and this is the class giving cop, bad cop strategy. what is referred to as maximumization and minimumization. we know this is highly coercive and it leaves vulnerable people very vulnerable. people with a history of mental illness, younger people and people with low i.q.s. a lot of them say, well i know i'm innocent and i need to relieve this acute distress. i'm going to fess up and i'm sure the police will come forward with my innocence in a few days. as soon as you confess, the police stop looking for anyone else. all those other leads, they dry up. >> it stops the investigation. let me put up some of the studies from your book that i mentioned. how can it matter what time of day you get?

a parole review whether you're attractive or even if the jury on the same race as you. how does that affect a fair and impartial system? >> i think we think our legal actors are completely rational. that a judge determines cases based on the facts and law in front of him. and in one of the studies that you just referenced, what we found out is that the most important that variable in this study affecting whether someone is granted parole is the time of day. when the parole board happens to meet. if you come before the parole board first thing in the morning, that's your best chance of getting parole. right before lunch. right before lunch, the worst time. these aren't the things mental to determine outcomes in our criminal justice system. >> this is shocking. let me show you something else that really got to me. there's a photo in the book that you say shocked you. and it shocked you the most.

tell me about the case behind this photo. >> there was a brutal rape in 1979 in georgia. the victim was brought in. she looked at these five men and she said yep. number three. right there in the middle. that's the man. so john jerome white ended up spending something like two decades in prison. the evidence was eventually biological evidence was eventually tested. and he was innocent. now that's not what shocked me. there are many, many cases of people wrongfully i.d.'d who end up spending decades in prison. what shocked me is the real perpetrator is standing two men over. >> the real perpetrator is in the photo. what that means, he happened to be locked up on an unrelated crime. he was pulled in as a filler. the victim looked eye to eye with the man who brutally attacked her and picked out the guy standing next to him. i think what that shows is people with the best of

intentions, with every incentive to get things right can get things terribly terribly wrong. >> wow! the book is called unfair. the new science of criminal injustice. thank you for your time tonight. >> it was a pleasure. thank you. ahead, msnbc is joining forces to fight extreme poverty across the world. and there are big stars helping out. plus perspective on what the confederate flag is really all about. from congressman john lewis. it took serena williams years to master the two handed backhand. but only one shot to master the chase mobile app. technology designed for you.

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not the other way around. exciting news from msnbc today. we'll once again be a proud partner of the global pompt project in sponsoring the global citizen festival. the organization ames to eliminate extreme poverty across the globe by 2030. beyonce will be one of the headliners at the festival. here's how she is getting ready. >> i'm proud to announce time for change with the goal of ending streel poverty by 2030. charm for change will be bringing hundreds of initiatives dedicated to education, health and justice for girls and women

everywhere. please visit global citizen.org and choose how you can help. >> it's going to be a great day for an even better did call. be sure to tune in. here is a simple math problem. two trains leave st. louis for albuquerque at the same time. same cargo, same size, same power. which one arrives first? hint: it's not the one on the left. the speedy guy on the right is part of an intelligent system that creates the optimal trip profile for all trains on the line. and the one on the left? uh, looks like it'll be counting cows for awhile. so maybe the same things aren't quite the same. ge software. get connected. get insights. get optimized. ♪♪

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when governor haley signed a bill to take down the confederate flag she did it with nine pens. one for each victim of the charleston massacre. it is a sharp contrast to what we saw on capitol hill with republicans fighting to allow confederate flags at federal cemeteries. congressman jim clyburn brought some history to the debate. >> when robert e. lee surrendered, he asked all of his followers to furl this flag. store it away he said. put it in your attics.

why? because robert e. lee said he considered this emblem to be a symbol of treason. >> later, congressman john lewis put the whole issue in perspective. >> hate is too heavy a burden to bear. but i was marching across that bridge in selma in 1965. i saw some of the law enforcement officers sheriff's deputies, wearing on their helmet the confederate flag. i don't want to go back and as a country we cannot go back. >> that flag for many americans for me represents slavery and lynching. but it also represents what congressman clyburn quoted the confederate general robert e. lee saying it represents why would we as a country celebrate

those that betrayed it and killed american soldiers to try to secede from it. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. tony down or trump it up? let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm steve kornacki. reince priebus called and he wants his party back. have you ever seen anything like this? a fire breathing cowboy billionaire shot out of a cannon into second place by his inflammatory comments about those he calls illegal immigrants. donald trump is building bridges left and right in the business world where he made his name. he is