. i'm toure. the confederate battle flag is gone forever from the state capitol in columbia. the civil war era symbol had flown there since the '60s and now been taken down for the final time. three weeks after nine worshippers more killed mother emanuel by a man who posed with the confederate flag and reportedly told friends he wanted to start a race war. nearly 10,000 people packed the block surrounding the confederate memorial as the flag was lowered for good. now the only flag at the capitol is the stars and stripes as the lyrics of the 1897 march proclaims, the flag of the north and south and west in the flag of flags, the flag of freedom's nation. president obama today tweeted, south carolina taking down the confederate flag, a signal of goodwill and healing and a meaningful step toward a better future. the governor haley said the

proper place for the confederate flag is a museum. >> the state house that's an area that belongs to everyone and no one should drive by and feel pain. no one should drive by and feel like they don't belong. that is hopeful day for south carolina. i think it is a day that we can all say we have come together as a state and look at the way south carolina responded to the tragedy and all say that hopefully the emanuel nine are looking down and mealing proud today. >> msnbc's craig melvin was there as the flag was removed. we hear grace about this situation. your thoughts on that word and how it relates to the situation? >> reporter: i'd say that was probably the most appropriate adjective. i want to note behind me not only is the confederate battle flag gone the flagpole and wrougt iron fencing that

surrounded it is also gone as well. took them less than an hour to take down that flagpole. grace, yeah. because, you know if you think back to the days after the shooting, i mean the family members in that courtroom standing before the judge saying that they had already forgiven the shooter in their hearts there was that grace. there was the grace that was displayed in the days after that when you saw folks who got together and decided to pray on street corners in charleston. you saw the thousands of people that packed the largest bridge in charleston. another display of that grace. and a number of the people that we have talked to in the weeks since that shooting, this's the word that they use over and over again. governor david beasley, republican governor that served the state in the late '90s used that exact same word this morning and he was wiping a tear away in the ceremony. and he said, and i never heard

this before. it was hilarious. he was the last great casualty of the civil war. the confederate battle flag cost him his political career. he called for it to come down in '96 and laughed him out of the governor's mansion faster than you might imagine. but times have changed in south carolina. one could argue that even before the church massacre there was a bit of a pair dime shift that was underware way. governor haley said a week ago this for her at least is about more than a flag. it is also about changing perceptions, as well. and as you know that flag symbolized racism and hatred and evil. for a lot of people in this country. but for others it symbolized heritage. that is not a debate that is going to end immediately. i do think there's probably a bit of a misconception that because the battle flag is gone

we join hands in the state capitol and sing kumbaya. that won't happen. we saw a number of confederate battle flags this morning. i saw one driving in from the airport. you see them pop up perhaps even a lot more in the short term. the ku klux klan staging a rally here to call for the flag to be reinstated. the debate will not end but it's changed. the page has been turned in an undeniable way whether it's flags or that chews or monuments. we are having that conversation about what these things really mean, what do they really symbolize? and to have the flag come down on the same day that it's revealed by the fbi that the shooter acquired the gun illegally, that's something else that's been talked about because we should note here that that gun was purchased not 15 minutes from where i stand right now. >> craig, we'll get to more on

that on he acquired that gun later with pete williams. great to see you. great report. let's bring in rick wade a former senior adviser for the president's campaign in south carolina and professor jack bass from the college of charleston. his eight books focus on the american south. professor, i want to start with you. we have talked a lot in the last month of what the confederate battle flag means to different people. i got to imagine what the symbolism of it is has changed after this recent debate after the removal from the capitol in south carolina. what does it mean to you now? what do you think it means at this point? >> i think it means less than it did yesterday. and the fact that it is down reflects a new direction i think for the state in terms of a much more looking forward than looking backward and i think the way the whole charleston area

responded to that terrible terrible shooting where there were no riots and you had 15,000 young young feem on the bridge that 3-mile long bridge, white and black altogether says a lot about the future of the state and the future of the south, i think. these people these are people who know each other. they have gone to school together and the north, the schools today are far more segregated as a result of chief justice john roberts' decisions a decade or so ago on school segregation in the north and so i think you've got a different south that's begun to emerge and i think this whole aspect about the flag reflects it. you see it happening now in other states as well. >> yeah, rick i certainly identify with that sentiment based on my time that i got to spend in charleston to be there for the funeral of reverend

pinckney and the incredible display of unity of people of charleston, the surrounding region. all there to celebrate the life to mourn the death and also to try to move forward and this is one of those steps moving forward. i wanted to get your thoughts on this day just what it means to you to see this flag come down and also you knew reverend pinckney personally. what you think it would have meant to him to see this flag come down. >> well clearly -- >> i think it would have meant -- >> rick? >> yeah. clearly this is a very defining and special moment in south carolina and certainly for me. i was chief of staff for the lieutenant governor and worked in the capitol when the flag actually flew atop the state house. and i saw that flag every day. and so i do think that this is an opportunity, a first step in the right direction for south carolina to heal. we have a lot of work yet to be done. i believe if senator clementa

pinckney were looking down he would also express that same sentiment, yes, now that we have lowered the flag it is now time to raise a standard of living the quality of life to make our society more inclusive of all people in south carolina regardless of race and religion and so forth. that is the case quite frankly, i think for america. this debate, this issue, this rhetoric, the move we are seeing in south carolina i think transcends across our country because we have work across our country, as well with racial reconciliation and making sure that all americans regardless of color are part of our great society. >> jack, you know it is pretty remarkable after we have been stuck on the debate so many years how quickly politicians got together make this day happen today and as chuck todd said this morning in a special report one big catalyst was the power of politicians setting their minds to something. let's take a look at that. >> it's an unexpected moment.

how do you handle that moment? and i think that it's pretty clear governor nikki haley handled this as well as any governor could handle. you could say she was late to the game. that criticism is there. she accepted that criticism. but again, without her, lindsey graham and tim scott locking arms on this i don't know if that south carolina republican controlled legislature does this. they pulled this off. >> you know if we want to make change it is possible in south carolina is a perfect example of that. governor nikki haley said this morning on the "today" show she hopes this moment lasts. how do we keep the momentum going? >> well i think depends to some extent the forward leadership of governor haley. i mean rick said you recall ler he would like to see the lives of poor people improve and governor haley's at this point declined to accept the medicaid portion of the affordable care

act which would provide health care to roughly 180,000 people in south carolina. w.h.o. lack it. and it would create jobs in the state. and it would mean a healthier work force and it would mean healthier children going to school. and i hope that the symbolic extremely important symbolic move by governor haley may follow by a substantive move by her. >> an important point, jack. rick, i wonder if we should be careful to learn the right lessons of how this went down because a lot of people late to the struggle want to claim credit for it. and that strikes me as wrong and potentially blurring what went down here. nikki haley ran for re-election on flying the battle flag. and people say, oh well the shooting changed that. graham continued to defend this flag. it was only i think the combination of grassroots pressure and tremendous outrage on the ground and combined with

external pressure from companies, corporate america, from the likes of even walmart not exactly a leader of social changes on the issues that finally they and some republicans in the state legislature so out in the cold they had to come to this. isn't it important to get it right and not pretend it's a profile in courage? >> it's the grace and forgiveness we saw as a result of the unfortunate tragedy in charleston. but, you know i think we really do need to move forward. it's not about who to credit who has credit when's on first, second, third. the bottom line is i think we witness the coming together in a way i haven't seen in my lifetime in a bipartisan way, black, white, again, unfortunately as a result of a tragedy. but the challenge going forward is can we keep this same momentum and the coalition of the members of our congressional delegation and governor haley.

i acknowledge and i think she's done a tremendous job at moving the conversation around the flag to where we saw it come down today but as jack mentioned, not just in health care but south carolina has some of the greatest economic disparities. how do we create jobs so that everybody and some of the poorer communities in particular raise the quality of life? education. we have the corridor of shame. how can we change that to corridor of pride? we have tough issues that the legislature and governor haley as jack mentioned that they have to take on in debate and i think for me personally that is a best indicator as to whether this grace, this mercy, this forgiveness, whether it we can continue to work that has to be done and how we do honor the life of not only senator clementa pinckney but the others that died in that tragedy in

charleston. >> well said. rick wade and jack bass thank you for being here. the fbi today says the accused charleston gunman should not have been allowed to purchase the murder weapon but a series of missteps allowed the gun to fall into his hands. nbc news yus tis correspondent pete williams has the details. how did this happen? >> reporter: well, the fbi director said he just learned the lessons last night and dispatched agents to explain what happened to the family. dylan dylann roof was charged with to sezzing drugs at a shopping mall and told the police at the time that he had these drugs in his pocket. the fbi never saw that police report and the director said it would have blocked the sale considered an unlawful user. instead, what happened is in mid-april he walked into a gun store, dylann roof applied to buy the gun. they submitted the paperwork. the examiner saw that he'd been arrested in lexen on the county.

the sheriff said you need to call the lexington county police. the examiner pulled up the database for law enforcement agencies and lexington county. there wasn't a columbia police department. there was a west columbia police department. she called the west columbia police department and they said not our case either. so she never contacted the columbia police department which had made the arrest because she didn't know about it. and three days later the case was still open and under federal law a gun sale can go through if the fbi hasn't blocked it within three days so what he said today is it's heartbreak sing. he said we're sick about this. that's what happened. so there were several missed unts here. the fbi database not listing the right police department. the law enforcement in that police department not getting back to the examiner to say, here's what happened. and we don't know why the wrap sheet didn't list columbia police in the first place instead of sending the examiner off to lexington county instead.

but for all these missteps the sale was not prevented and fbi director says he never should have been able to legally buy the gun that authorities say he used in the church shooting last month. >> all right. pete williams, thanks for that report. now you know that dreaded deadline? iran and superpowers are breathing down your neck new details after the break. niblgt best-selling author brad taylor knows how to keep us all in suspense and later thriller hits very close to home. he'll join us in the guest spot. plus something you don't see every day even in new york city. actually something we have never seen team usa, the women's world cup champions parading through the canyon of heroes or as we're going to call it today the canyon of heroines.

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we have a news story. please stop us if you've heard this one. the deadline for the iranian nuclear talks has been extended. yes, again. this is familiar. negotiators working through the weekend and ideally a deal by monday. the deadline seems like something less than a deadline. the implications, though of course we want to stress are no joke. secretary of state john kerry saying it's not getting easier

as the negotiations continue. >> we have a couple of different lines of discussion that are going on right now but i think it's safe to say we have made progress today. the atmosphere is very constructive. we still have a couple of very difficult issues and we'll be sitting down to discuss those in the very near term. >> david rothcoff is editor of foreign policy magazine. your magazine uses deadline ss, as well. we have deadlines to get the publication out. >> is that how it works? >> that's how that works? >> david, obviously, the analogy only goes so far. explain to us why it can be okay to move the deadlines and how to interpret it with regard to an ultimate deal. >> when we use deadlines, we

stick 0 the deadlines. >> boom. >> it is kind of a stage prop for them. you know? i was kind of amused with kerry yesterday saying we will not be driven by the deadlines when he made the deadlines up. you know? it's a strange form of political theater that's designed to push us towards action. but in this case there's bit of a political gain to be made by dragging it out and looking like you're hammering out the deal past the deadlines, so it doesn't look like you're rushing into a deal. and that's all part of the showmanship behind this. ultimately, i think you're going to end up with a deal. >> david, the huge problem as it seems right now is whether or not to lift the arms embargo to keep arms and missiles out of iran and right now we're being told, i don't know if it's true or not, but told that russia and china are siding with iran on the issue so that makes life tougher for the united states. is this a plank that we can

afford to back down on to get this thing done? >> i would have said no. but there have been a lot of planks we couldn't afford to back down on we backed down in terms of deadlines, enrichment and a whole host of other things. so you might see some change in the u.s. position. i think the administration wants the deal. i think the iranians want the deal. i think that means over the next couple of days you see compromise followed by other compromises. >> so, david you think that there is ultimately going to be a deal so when the details of that deal come out, what are you going to be looking at specifically to figure out whether we got a good deal or not? what should we be looking at? >> well in the first instance you're going to look and say, do we have the ability to inspect? can we inspect whenever we want to? can we inspect wherever we want to? will we have a kind of an agreement to enforce violations in a swift way? i'm skeptical of snapbacks. i think it's a bit of a fantasy.

one thing to caution everybody to look at is not the deal itself because that's not really the hardest part. the hardest part is enforcement of the deal over the year that is follow. the real tough thing is going to be getting the iranians to stick with it getting the russians and chinese to be serious about it and doing what we can to counterbalance iran's efforts to spread the influence in the region and doing what we can to counteract the impulse of others to explore nuclear proliferation to offset what they see as a potential threat from iran. it's not a destination. it's a journey. it's a long journey. >> on this journey, david, we have talked so much about the importance of the deal and meaning for all parties involved and a possibility here there's no deal at the end of this. what are the implications of nothing happening here? obviously, the administration would be upset. this is a big legacy piece for them. but would all parties secretly be somewhat relieved if there's no deal at this end of this or a

pretty bad thing? >> well look. i think a bad deal would be a bad thing but i also think that the likelihood that this just ends and is not taken up again is unlikely. we have seen you know for example in the israel-palestine peace talks it comes up. i think if there's a breakdown in the talks you might have a couple of weeks of cooling off period but they go back. they want the sanctions relief and the obama administration want it is legacy and the progress in the region and that's why ultimately this weekend, next week some week some month, probably this year you'll end up with a deal. >> yeah. you use the word legacy and no doubt a lot of mainstream democratic foreign policy establishment thinks this could be a positive polllegacy. i want to play comments of jim

webb about this deal. >> i am very concerned about any agreement that would acquiesce to the idea that iran would eventually acquire nuclear weapons. we want better relations with iran. i've said this many times over the years. but since the iraq war with the fallout of the iraq war and arab spring iran is more active in the region and we don't want to send the wrong signal we are acquiescing to the greater power that iran has. so i don't see that there's a hurry here with respect to the agreement with iran. >> if there is a deal is that something that hillary has to worry about defending in a primary? >> yeah. i think so. i think it's something that the electorate's going to want to look at from the democrat and republican side and say, well, okay, there's a deal. how are you going to handle it as the next president? really the responsibility to make it work is going to be on

the next president of the united states. but webb's point is an important one. the real threat recently is regional expansion. they use some of the money to continue with that regional expansion, then we're going to see, you know possible progress on the nuclear front and possible setbacks everywhere in the region at the expense of our allies and i think we have to be very, very careful to balance our multiple interests and not overly focus on just one. >> right. tough questions to be weighed. david, as always appreciate your expertise. >> thanks. coming up the world cup runnette over. where? under the streets of manhattan. who's there? krystal ball and abby huntsman and several thousand closest friends witnessing history. bringing us the report straight ahead. ♪ to steady betty. to steady betty. fire it up! ♪ am i the only one with a meeting?

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the day as tens of thousands turned out to celebrate the women of team usa. i was among the crowd lining the canyon of heroines for the ticker tape parade here in new york city. krystal held down the party at city hall for the champions. take a look at this. ♪ ♪ >> usa! usa! >> who are you excited to see? >> alice morgan. >> it's alex morgan? >> wambach. >> you want to be pro one day just like them? >> very excited to see the women's national team. >> this is exciting. >> best team in the world. so excited. we couldn't miss this opportunity.

>> usa! usa! usa! >> we have chills. the soccer players are right here as you can see. alex morgan. whoo! we have been waiting all morning for this very moment. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> this is where the canyon of heroines comes to an end. we have a crowd here all ready. they have been here for hours. ♪ the deejay has been killing it. ♪ ♪

it's been a celebratory atmosphere. the girl power. definitely the mantra of the day. >> are you ready for a party? then let's celebrate the world champion u.s. women's soccer team! >> world champions are coming out right now. >> you know we're talking about carli lloyd! the world's all-time leading international scorer the one, the only abby wambach! christie christie! ♪ >> it was such an incredible morning. >> our job was a little bit of fun this morning. >> the best jobs in the world.

you dance to taylor swift in the sunglasses the best part about it. >> awesome. >> i have chills thinking about this morning. i walked there. you probably did, too. early this morning. like 6:00 a.m. it was already packed. >> yeah. >> with so many young girls that were there hours before us just waiting to see the women's soccer team hoping to be just like them one day. the inspiration they have passed down to these young girls, that to me the biggest takeaway and how proud everyone was to be an american today. there was shouting usa the entire time. obviously a ticker tape parade. a famous parade in new york city. it goes back to the late 1800s and honored legends, heroes politicians and sports teams. most recently just new york sports teams but what made today was so special first time they honored a women's sports team. so today was all about the women. and i will say everyone was so happy from the kids to the parents, even the nypd.

they were -- i overheard one saying this is the best time hanging out with the girls happy of all time. >> this is the best place in the world to be today and we got to be there and super cool. city hall where i was posted up. it was just a giant party. they had a deejay a female deejay. >> killing it apparently. >> totally killing it. everybody was getting down. myself. several police officers and of course all the fans and little girls as you mentioned. and when mayor deblasio came out he did underscore the fact that when they won that world cup in that incredible fashion it really was showing the power of women and that was definitely the theme of the day. and that's a theme that this team has really also embraced. they have a she believes initiative to encourage young girls to be the best they can be and believe they can be anything in the world so to be there for that moment and see the energy i mean like you, those folks

were waiting there. the ceremony started at 1:00. they were there since before 9:00. hours and hours and still the energy to the sky. >> to hear you say the deejay's killing it the line of the day. i loved you for that. >> it was true. >> you know it's exciting to see female athletes getting the love. talk about the young girls who were there. you did, too. you hope they see this love they're getting and says you know what? i want to be part of that too, i'm going to put in the time on the field or the court so that one day i'm part of that parade. >> another big takeaway and talking about things going wrong. everything went smoothly today and i felt so safe being there given so many people that were there. there were police on every single corner and talked to the sanitation commissioner. expected over 40 tons of debris to fall from the windows and all over the streets. they had it cleaned up by the time i left which was 1:00 p.m. and kudos to everyone on the parade because it was so well

done. >> looked amazing out there and the people and the police and everyone able to pull it off. and as you were saying the aspect of it being role models and look up to is awesome. some folks like to say wrongly that people don't want to watch the games or women's sports aren't as popular. 26 million fans tuning in to watch this. obviously, those -- >> most watched soccer game men or women in the u.s. ever. >> exactly. >> wow. >> well deserved. well, it was a great day. >> one that i will remember forever probably. >> absolutely. >> and one of my favorite parts of team usa's win was that it became the headline of the fourth of july holiday overshadowing those concerns about a home groun terror attack on america's 239th birthday. today, we're learning chilling new details of how close we came. that's up next.

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isis-inspired attacks here during the fourth of july holiday. the fbi has not said where those attacks were planned or even how close these guys came to pulling them off. but these arrests underscore the warnings that this threat from isis is real and it is right here right now. this afternoon in the guest spot is the man who spent more than two dewades the army infantry and special forces fighting groups like isis and also is an acclaimed fiction writer. the latest thriller is "the insider threat" and it's a plot that could be ripped from the headlines. we welcome "the new york times" best-selling author brad taylor to the table. nice to have you. >> thank you. >> take us inside the latest novel. what are the general outlines of the plot without spoilers? >> islamic consolidate. i wanted the islamic state but the threat is somebody going over getting trained, coming hope with american or western passport and most of them have a

foot in the region to begin with. their father's from yemen. spent significant time outside, so i thought what would be a significant threat and something to see is surfer boy decided to go. he's got no profile and especially if he was not prevalent on social media that's a significant threat. >> the book vs a history of predicting real world head lines as krystal was saying. that's a rhee ri feeling for you to know what could be happening and potentially close to it. >> it's actually a lot of luck. i like to pat myself on the back saying i predicted that but like i had boko haram last year in the book and book released a month after boko haram went crazy and kidnapped the girls and said brad taylor is predicting the future. boko haram is lopping heads off

since 2009. they're out there. i just follow when's going on. >> you're 21 years in the army. eight years in delta force. so, you know what you're talking about talking about the military. how should we be dealing with isis? >> right now, a strategy is ends ways and means. we have the ends. we'll defeat isis. we have heard that. obama articulated the strategy of partners on the ground and where we're lacking. i think one thing i don't like is sound bite strategy i call it. the islamic state is a very complex, multifaceted problem state. the kurds' goals are not our goals. arm them. they'll help us where they are. it's like the battle of midway was won by the navy. that won't do anything against the germans. kurds will eradicate isis in their area but not going to

raqqa and mosul. there's more that needs to happen. >> we have 3,500 men and women there. do you want to see us put more of our folk there is? >> no. like an invasion force like we had before? no. 110,000, i don't think that -- that will exacerbate the problem. we could do more with the integrating into the iraqi forces. it's fragmented along sectarian lines. and that is counter productive to defeating i sy. sunni lands are afraid of doing anything. shia are you sunni, they'll whack them on the head. they're caught. as much as they don't like us as people don't think they like us over there in iraq, they trust us more than the shia of their own nation. >> wow. >> we can leverage that in the army itself. >> coming to isis you have spent so much time studying terrorism and predicted things that have happened what keeps you up at night thinking about

isis, about what potentially could happen as it relates to the real threat that we face? >> what keeps me up -- nobody both killed those kind of things are out there. charlie hebdo is pretty bad. they have found laptops with biological weapon recipes on them trying to crack how to do a significant mass casualty event. engineer in syria. they found a laptop. it's full of things trying to do horrific stuff. people say that islamic state's not a threat. they have never lied about anything. al qaeda didn't lie. islamic state said id'm raising the black flag over the white house. take them at their word. they'll try to do it. if they have the -- they have a secure area to do any kind of training testing, anything they want. we don't control the area or the battle space around raqqa. the kurds are encroaching in.

they can train and develop and they're looking to come. i mean they're looking to come to us. >> to that point, how much does your military experience help you with your writing because that's a dramatic career shift and yet you can see the threat through what you're writing about. >> yeah. the career helps me in my experiences. if you write a scene about riding a bike you think about the bike you rode. writing a scene of military related, i draw on my experiences. i don't put any of them in the book because most of them are classified. in the mill fair especially when you're low, by time you're high you're designing exercises and the guys in special forces are very very smart guys and basically building a plot. you create a bad guy. tied into world events. tie it into the real world event. you have role players. they have duties and now you have to wicker how that works. >> works on the creative expression. thank you so much.

really appreciate your time today. >> thank you. thank you for having me. up next two of toure's passions parenthood and sports combine for the ultimate playbook on life. >> huh oh. >> this sounds like a home run, people! sure can. so i could get a faulty light switch fixed? yup! or make a backyard pizza oven? oh yeah. i can almost taste it now. tastes like victory. and pepperoni... i'm caridee. i've had moderate to severe plaque psoriasis most of my life. but that hasn't stopped me from modeling. my doctor told me about stelara® it helps keep my skin clearer. with only 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses... ...stelara® helps me be in season. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and increase your risk of infections. some serious infections require hospitalization. before starting stelara® your doctor should test for tuberculosis. stelara® may increase your risk of cancer. always tell your doctor if you have any sign of infection have had cancer, or if you develop any new skin growths. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to stelara® or any of its ingredients. alert your doctor of new or worsening

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♪ ♪ when you're living with diabetes steady is exciting. only glucerna has carbsteady clinically proven to help minimize blood sugar spikes. so you stay steady ahead. to have children is to have a chance to restart your athletic dreams. maybe you'll help build them into athletes that are better than you ever were or watch them repeat your athletic failings.

maybe they'll develop a little friend with whom you can both watch your favorite team together. our next guest has written a uniquely structured memoir of miss love of memoir of his love of sports and love and fear of fatherhood. he writes i was seized with the belief that my love would burn away all of the crappiness of me clean away and leaving something pure. and it does only for a moment. and then my failings return. a sportsed obsessed memoir of fatherhood. welcome josh. i want to ask you about your performance as a father. i want you to rate it. and i want you the analogyize yourself to an athlete. so your performance is like the life and performance of what athlete. >> it would be hard to pick just one athlete because i feel like there are so many different phases of failure that i've

encompassed as an ath -- as the father. also as an athlete. i played college basketball but very obscurely. so i have that going for me too. but the one that came to mind initially was when the biggest moment of my life was when my first son was born. and i realized that i felt exactly like calvin shiraldi in the 1996 playoffs when he had this look of beingwhelmed by the moment. and he had this amazing rookie season but when got to the series couldn't follow through with it. couldn't handle the moment. and i was like i got a baby coming. i don't know if i can do this. >> that is the buckner world series where the sox lost to the mets heartbreakingly. >> one reader said you are like bob costas being channelled through woody allen. >> that is a complement. >> well i'm a big fan of both.

that's beautiful. and i think feel -- i mean that's true because like bob costas i think i see everything through a sports lens. but as in the earlier work of woody allen i think i also see it through a lens of "what am i doing wrong?" and how am i failing here? and justening having that angst and humor hopefully too to pull me through. >> what is that life the first year of your little boy. a tloiflhrill of victory or agony of defeat. >> or both. >> absolutely both. i would say now that i have a distance from it. b it was the greatest thing by far that's ever happened to me. and he brings me so much joy and his little brother whose now with us. >> how old your kids now. >> the oldest is just about to turn four and the younger just turned one. vogt very small and beautiful

and joyous. on a kay to day basis it is more the agony of defeat. because it is more about all the ways i'm kind of -- i set out to be a perfect father but you know how that goes. there are days when i lose my temper. and days when i don't pay attention to them as well as i would like to. >> crystal knows nothing about that. >> no parent has those problems. >> to that point. i'm a mother or 7-year-old little girl and a 2-year-old very difficult little boy whose lots of joy and challenge all wrapped up into one. but one of the things i experienced as a parent is when you come in you think you are going to be like your own parents or i thought i was going to be like my mom, who is actually a perfect parent so i had that standard for myself and then i go into it and i'm not at all the parent i thought i would be. what is the process like for you of finding the identity of the type of parent that you are? >> yeah it's been -- yeah i feel

like i guess every parent goes through this. they look to their parents and like oh i didn't realize you had it so hard when i was a kid. sorry about that. so my vision of them was that it was a lot easier for them than i was finding it. and i think at first my initial way of approaching parenthood was just try as hard as i could. but that kind of -- to bring it back to athletics, that makes you kind of tighten up if you are worrying so much about every moment. that is not the way to go either. so i think -- the beautiful thing about the second kid is you get to kind of relax a little bit with him. and he has a little bit more -- he has a father that's little different than the father of the first kid i would say. >> how do you get into the parenting zone? i'm not sure i figured that out yet. >> the parenting zone. yeah. i don't know. it only lasts very briefly. i'm like wow things are going great and then -- and then i lose it. >> the second kid is easier

life becomes easier once you get to the second one, sure. but when you are aplaying a game or a match, you have moments of high tension i have to win this point, i have to score at this moment. whereas parenting it is that high level pressure all the time because if i don't do it right i'm going to end up in therapy and then i'm going the one blamed and i'm the problem. but i do want to bring it back to sports pause a lot of this book is about sports and you talk about things like asterisks. lance armstrong and barry bonds and the sense of where have you gone joe dimaggio. so much of modern sports is steroids and scandals and contracts and it is not quite the way it was when we were much younger. do you have the same love of sports that you had when you were a kid? >> well it is a different quality. but i'll never stop loving sports. when i was younger it was definitely more innocent. now i can see sort of the strings behind everything a

little bit better. but i think what i was talking about with the asterisk there and how it relates to parenthood is that when i became a parent i kind of saw that the world was really kind of uncertain. i didn't have any answers that -- firm answers. and i feel like that is the same way with sports now. you don't really know if a guy who hits 60 home runs did he do it clean? didn't hoe do it clean? does it matter? and i think what you have to rely on is the love of the game and sports, and with children the love of the kids. >> fascinating book. west of luck with your kids and best of luck with the red sox, but i like the yankees so hope they finish last. and remember more cycle to come and we're always on at the cycle.msnbc.com. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach and abnormal vision.

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that does it for the cycle. have a great weekend. "now" with alex wagner starts right now. >> dylann roof. dylann roof the south carolina man charged with murdering nine at the emmanuel ame church in charleston last month should not have been able to purchase the gun used in that attack. fbi director james comey spoke with reporters today and said roof was age to buy the weapon because of a breakdown in the fbi's background check system. we all wish this didn't happen. we wish we could turn back time. this came on the same day as the confederate flag was lowered from the capitol grounds. nikki haley called