"meet the press." this sunday -- terror in tennessee. the fbi reviewing a text message the chattanooga gunman sent to him just before the attack. the iran nuclear deal. >> i believe it poses a great deal to america and the world. >> we have all sides of the debate covered with british prime minister david cameron secretary of state john kerry and a key republican critic, arkansas senator tom cotton. and the trump factor. republicans pile on after trump says this about john mccain. >> he's a war hero. >> he's a war hero because he's

captured. i like people who weren't captured. >> is this the moment republicans decide enough is enough. >> i'm chuck todd. joining us thomas friedman of the "new york times." andrea mitchell finally back from vienna. danielle pletka and bill richard richardson richardson. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." good morning. new developments into the investigation in chattanooga. those victims, lance corporal skip wells gunnery sergeant thomas sullivan staff sergeant david why yet, and sergeant holmquist. the gunman mohammad youssuf abdulazeez investigators are focusing on a text message he sent to friends just hours

before the shootings, including a link to islamic verse who says this. whosoever shows enmity to friends. his family offered a statement offering condolences to the victims and stating their son suffered from depression for many years. i'm joined by governor haslam. good morning to you. >> good morning. >> any new developments on your end, sir? >> you know the fbi has been incredible, i think, in terms of being willing to chase down every lead, working with state law inforceenforcement and ascertain is this someone operating on their own, someone pulling their strings, what caused this person to get where he did. i have a lot of faith they're going to drill down on exactly what happened. like i said, so far, i've been really impressed with their

ability to go to every end to see where that will take them. >> here we are 72 hours in and we don't have bread crumbs that lead to us a conclusion that many people have already come to, that this was a terrorist attack. what's been the struggle here? >> i think one of the scary things for all americans is the chance -- very good chance this is just a lone wolf out there operating on his own where we had no predictors of what he would do. it makes it really hard obviously, to think, how do we protect ourselves in the future. i think that's one of the fears all of us has is that he might be motivated by someone, someone might be pulling his strings but when he's operating by himself, it's harder to ascertain about what we do about that. >> many of your fellow governors have decided to figure out ways to increase security at recruitment centers, particular lit national guard. what are you thinking about

doing as far as tennessee is concerned? >> we'll have a directive that asks our general to review safety at all of our facilityiesfacilities not just armory the store fronts like the one that was attacked on thursday. number one, two viewing where it's appropriate for our officers to be armed to a better degree than they were in the past. both where that's appropriate and legal. one of the challenges we have is that many of our armories our facilities are federal facilities so we don't want to put our adjunct generals in an order they karr kaent carry out. we'll have a complete review. we're concerned obviously. we don't want to leave our folks out there as targets when we've had such a horrible event happen three days ago. >> so you need an act of congress? >> ultimately that would help clear things up because on federal grounds we have limited authority as wh we can do. we'll do everything we can. at the end of the day, it would

be better if we had clarity from the federal government. >> i know it's tough on you tough on your state. my condolences. and thank you for coming on this morning. >> thank you. chattanooga is a great city with a broken heart. we have great people that mourn four four marines and a sailor. >> joining me is michael. i feel like we meet here monthly. that's the part of this that says, this is the new normal. what do you say? >> unfortunately, it is. we saw this in 2009 starting at ft. hood, arkansas, similar to this, the recruiting center, the machete attack against the nypd. we see lone wolfs motivated and directed, and it's very hard to control and stop especially when you have soft targets like these in chattanooga. >> it looks like we're looking

for a conclusion this sis lambic terrorism. we haven't found evidence right? >> that's correct. fbi is being appropriately cautious. it's 72 hours in. every indicator is that's what it is but what's so frighten being, how little of a trail there was. 72 hours later and we see nothing. that's the speed and rapidity of radicalization for this indivial which is scary. which makes that person much more difficult. >> it-f his name weren't mohammed, would we call it terrorism? >> we might. in this case i think the targeting of the individuals who were in the military at least some early indicators put it in that lane. of course we vaent shouldn't divide these. often those with mental illness are those attracted to radical ideology. >> you have to say every attack

is preventable. we're at the point where we can't protect ourselves from this. >> if i were in the administration, i would be telling the president every event isn't predictable and every event isn't preventable. when you have weapons had an open society and you have individuals who in an isolated way can become radicalized. you can't find them all, you have to minimize the damage and respond effectively. >> in chattanooga in a strip mall anywhere america. scary. >> it is. >> michael leiter, thank you. the nuclear deal with iran. if you believe the prime minister of israel net yeah new, it will go down in history. on capitol hill, the deal doesn't appear to have a lot of support in congress. in iran, the deal has been welcomed. though the country's supreme leader ayatollah khomeini said

his country will oppose arrogant policy. it wasn't just the united states negotiating with iran, it was the p5plus one. on friday i was joined by the head of one of those powers, a key advocate british prime minister david cameron. started by asking him, why he decided to sign off on this deal. >> because i think it's so much better than the alternative. if there wasn't a deal i think we would have faced iran with a nuclear weapon, which would turned to the west for enabling that to happen or a difficult decision to take military action. this is the better outcome. it keeps iran from a nuclear weapon. a successful negotiation for the allies and i think we should be proud of a good deal done. there are those that complain of a deal but fundamentally, this

is the toughest set of proposals put in place verification put in place inspection put in place, than we've seen in any sorts of negotiations. i think this is a good deal. it was right to get on with it. the sanction pressure worked. credit to the administration, barack obama and europe, too. >> a lot of the criticism that's coming here in the united states and from some of key middle east allies of both great britain and the united states, i'm talking israel and saudi arabia in particular is that this deal did not demand any other behavior changes in iran outside of their nuclear weapons program. it didn't demand changes in what they're doing in syria, what they're doing in yemen. essentially essentially, the influence that they're -- undue influence they're trying to excertificate in the middle east. why not include all of that? >> this deal was about the nuclear issue. the right way to conclude the deal is about the nuclear issue.

we shouldn't be starry-eyed about the regime we're dealing with. i spoke to president rouhani and said we want a change. and we want the change in behavior. so we're not starry identify eyed at all, but taking the nuclear weapon issue off the table that's a success for america and britain and our allies and we should be clear about that. >> there was one expert here named richard haas said his biggest concern is if iran does comply with the deal for this reason, he believes if iran complies with the deal then in 15 years they can have a nuclear weapon. what do you say to that? >> well, i don't believe that's right. actually this deal says it's never acceptable for iran to have a nuclear weapon.

the time frame for which the safeguards are in place and inspection are in place for a particular period of time but the deal says it's not acceptable for a ran to have a nuclear weapon. againwhat we've done is make sure the timeline for them getting a nuclear weapon has gotten longer not shorter. >> prime minister netanyahu and many people in israel do not believe this makes them safer. everybody in the united states, on the obama administration has argued it does. i heard you argue that it does, too. why is he wrong and you guys are right? >> well i quite understand the coerns of people living in israel. you would if you had to deal with the terrorism of hamas and hezbollah if you had the threats to your country and you know what a threat iran has been to your country. i fully understand their concerns. but i would say to my friends in israel including the israeli prime minister look, the threat of a nuclear-armed iran that is now off the table. and i think that's a success. >> david cameron, prime minister of great britain, thanks for coming on "meet the press," sir.

>> thank you. >> a little bit more on david cameron you can see on the website. friday i sat down with secretary of state john kerry who has been making the rounds all over the place this past week in an effort to sell the iran deal to a skeptical congress and a divided american public. i asked him why the four americans believed held by iran weren't part of the deal, and why the u.s. focused only on iran's nuclear capabilities and not their overall capability. here are his responses. >> we have a plan in order to deal wth push back by iran's behavior, stopping the flow of weapons, dealing with counterterrorism, dealing with special forces training and capacity for some of those other countries. there will be plenty of pushback, chuck but the simple reality is if you're going to push back against iran,ist better to push back against an a ran that doesn't have a nuclear weapon rather than one that does. this focused on getting rid of the principle problem in the region, which is iran's threat to israel, their threat to the

region, to have a nuclear capacity. we believe with this, for years into the future, we have this incredib capacity to have access, inspections, hold them accountable. by the way even though the arms and missiles, they were thrown in as an add-on to this nuclear agreement. it was always contemplated if iran did come and deal on the mshg program, that was going to be lifted. >> do you wish you would have held firmer to get these detainees detainees? >> on the detain yees we raised them at every single meeting, we're still engaged in discussions with them and i hope they'll come back to the united states soon. that's my hope. we're working continually to get them back. >> are you willing to do what both senators corker and cardin have asked, to postpone vote on this until they act 1234. >> we can't do that. i spoke to senator corker to

tell him the agreement we made with our partners, who, by the y, don't feel they should be bound by the united states congress, they feel they've negotiated under the u.n. >> this jams congress. doesn't this jam congress? >> no. here's why, we specifically to protect congress put in a 90-day period before it takes effect. so, nothing will change. the u.n. will do what it needs to do to negotiate all of whom wanted to go to the u.n. >> to see extend the versions of both interviews with prime minister and secretary of state john kerry, visit our website. when we come back, one of the strongest opponents of the iran deal join us senator tom cotton of arkansas. later on donald trump says john mccain is no war hero and republican candidates

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welcome back. secretary of state john kerry is headed to capitol hill this week hoping to sellite ran. one who is not likely to be swayed by kerry is senator tom cotton. welcome back to "meet the press," sir. >> morning chuck. great to be on with you. >> you heard both -- i know the david cameron interview and john kerry interview. let me start with a specific when it comes to john kerry and congress. he said there is no need to delay the u.n. vote.

there's enough time built in to respect congress's role in here. do you agree? >> no, chuck i disagree. i think it's regrettable, like cardin and hoyer have said. at bottom united states' sanctions are most important and i'm confident the american people, as they learn more about this agreement are repudiating it and congress will ultimately reject it. >> explain the fundamental divide. it seems on one hand you have the administration and many world powers who believe iran is a regional power in the middle east and you have to just live with it and manage it. and there are opponents like yourself, prime minister netanyahu of israel and saudi arabia who say no iran should not be a regional power and all this deal does is give them more power. is that the divide we're looking at here? >> that's one of the fundamental divides, chuck. iran is a terror-sponsoring, anti-american outlaw regime.

they have the blood of hundreds of american soldiers and marines on their hands. we should not be empowering such a regime to be a successful regional power. we should be con fronting them. this gives them $150 billion of sanction reliefs and lifts the embargo and missiles ban. ultimately, even if they obey every single detail puts them on the path to be a nuclear state deal in 10 to 15 years. if you think iran is going to change their behavior in a decade, i can tell you how unlikely that is. they were trying to kill me and my soldiers. we were lucky. hundreds of american troops are not. >> you heard the arguments from john kerry and david cameron the alternative was war, the alternative was a nuclear iran. this at a least for a minimum postpones the timeline for a decade. isn't that better than nothing? >> unfortunately, chuck, as i said, even if iran obeys the

deal, they'll be a nuclear weapons state? a year. we have to assume they'll cheat on the deal and the inspection and vr fiction and enforcement mechanisms, i believe are too weak to do so. in the end i don't think it's a good thing to give such an outlaw regime nuclear weapons capability. but we are where we are. the question isn't what is the alternative, it is what is the alternative. i think the alternative is for congress to reject this deal and demand a better deal. send our negotiators back to the table and get a better deal for the american people. >> before i let you go. you're a veteran. what did you make of donald trump's comments on john mccain? >> a disagree with mr. trump's comments. john mccain is a great american. everyone knows he's a p.o.w. for over five years. his dad was a senior admiral at the time he was a p.o.w. so vietnamese offered him. john mcclain declined that early

release and oe bad the code of conduct so we should all honor and respect john mccain's service. >> do you think this makes donald trump unfit? >> like i said, i disagree with his comments, chuck. i would recommend he apologize, retract them and get back to the campaign he's, like the iran deal and the threat it poses to the united states. >> tom cotton republican from arkansas, i appreciate you coming on and sharing your views sir. >> thanks. >> tom friedman of the "new york times," he interviewed president obama after the deal was signed, andrea mitchell who is now a resident of austria, danielle pletka, bill richardson, former ambassador to the u.n. on behalf. united states. welcome to all of you. tom, you heard david cameron there. you interviewed the president. who did a better job selling the deal, david cameron or barack obama? >> i'm not going to get into that score keeping. obviously, both of them are quite emphatic about it.

chuck i would go back to the very beginningy we're in this situation. it seems to me this dates back to -- we launched a war in iraq. we failed to succeed in that war. the minute that failure was sort of locked in, we lost the military option against iran. iran understood that. bush's approach was we're not going to allow you to be a nuclear state. when bush came into office iran had 200 centrifuges, then 9,000. obama came innd said we're not going to let you become a nuclear state. we don't have a military option but we're going to structure a diplomatic alternative built around greater sanctions in return for the kind of deal we forged here. perfect was not on the menu. it's still not on the menu. in this region when you take military force off the table the balance of power between the two sides becomes roughly equal. as a result i think -- my own

position is let's make the best of this deal. give it a chance try to make it work. >> you don't think it was good? >> i don't think good was ever on the table. any deal that allows iran to have these capabilities is problematic, but i think it's a deal that can serve american interests provided we do two things. one is make sure the implementation is there. we can't let this be the obamacare of arms control where we do a deal and don't follow up with the proper oversight. secondly, i think the u.s. congress should pass resolution authorizing the president to use force. this president or any future one, should iran seek to obtain nuclear weapon. >> andrea, why is the military force rhetoric gone from this? cameron was rhetorically stroerng than the president. >> if you listen to what the president and john kerry and all the other leaders are saying, they think dim lomecy is the alternative to force. they really don't believe in it. the highest senior israelis are

saying is their greatest fear is that iran won't cheat. that for ten years, they will obey the rules they'll get all the billions of dollars they won't have the sanctions, then they will break out. they do not believe in the verification down the road because they say then their intelligence and ours are not as good as they think it is. they had a full reactor in syria until we knew it underground activities in iran they didn't know about. they're concerned they did not get any conditionality against terrorism by proximateies throughout the reon by iran. >> danielle, you're an outspoken critic of the deal. >> yes. i think i'm the only one at the table actually. look, this is terrible in so many different ways. first of all, it front loads all benefits to iran. we've already said, it lets them continue supporting hezbollah hamas, supporting assad's murder of, what up to 300,000 people who have been killed in syria with iran's help, with hezbollah's help, the iranian revolutionary guard, it's got

very inefficient oversight mechanisms and the worst part about it is if iran is unhappy with any of us do, they can back away from the deal. it prois all incentives to accept iranian malfeasance. it's the worst constructed deal? >> why didn't we demand changes? it seems we took too many things off the table? >> i am troubled by the deal. i'm a supporter of president and his foreign policy but the conventional arms embargo, we stuck with it. i think it's bad ballistic missiles, conventional arms can go to syria, yen. i worry about israel. i want these hostages back. i think "the washington post" reporter, jason and who's insulted by trump, a marine there in iran, and the fbi

agent. now, i read -- i read the 109 pages. >> right there. >> there are some good intrusive inspection regime. the snap back provision at the u.n. that allows russia and china not to veto. that's good. but it is a 15-year agreement. at the same time, if i were voting and a congressman i would want to just work on the hearing see what's coming out. i think there's a condition for improvement in the relationship. there should be the release of this reporter, the marine the fbi agent as a gesture that iran is entering as a community of nations. >> we're going to talk about more on this coming up after the break. it's been a busy weekend. donald trump has done it claimed john mccain is not a war hero. you heard one person come to his

defense earlier in tom cotton. the man says his comment -- former governor rick perry. he's next. >> announcer: "meet hey, you forgot the milk! that's lactaid. right. 100% real milk just without the lactose. so you can drink all you want... ...with no discomfort? exactly. here, try some... mmm, it is real milk. see? delicious. hoof bump! oh. right here girl, boom. lactaid®. 100% real milk. no discomfort. and for a creamy and delicious treat, try lactaid® ice cream.

so i never liked him much after that because i don't like losers. frank, frank, let me get to it. >> he's a war hero. >> he's not a war hero. >> he's a war hero. >> he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't captured. >> that was donald trump at saturday's family leadership summit in ames iowa, talking about senator john mccain. senator mccain, by the way, was prisoner for 5 half years and tortured if vietnam. donald trump managed to give his republican rivals freedom to do what they've been itching to do but afraid to do, denounce him.

within 90 minutes a half dozen candidates called his comments stupid, slander yous and disqualified. three dozen weighed in as offensive, outrageous and idiotic. >> john mccain is a war hero. >> i think he's insulted everyone who's served in the military today. >> we should never, ever ever question the patriotism and heroism of someone like john mccain. >> much more on do

welcome back. yesterday might now be remembered as the day the republican party turned against donald trump in full. after his attack on john mccain. rick perry is one of trump's rivals for the 2016 nomination and has been ahead of the crowd on the staunch tycoon most recently hitting him over comments about john mccain. governor perry welcome back. >> thank you. >> donald trump this morning put out a statement not only does he not owe john mccain an apology but john mccain owes an apology for his comment calling supporters of donald trump crazies. how do you respond to that? >> over the top, bombastic rhetoric from donald trump. this time he's been able to

offend one of the most beloved group of americans, that's our veterans. i just -- i really don't understand his strategy here of taking on a bullet that went through john mccain and a hit a lot of us. we need someone to be bringing this country together. chuck there's a reason that when i announced for the presidency that marcus latrell, mark thornton, medal of honor recipient, all veterans were standing on the stage supporting me because they know what i've done to support veterans both in my professional life as a governor and in my personal life that a lot of people may not have known about. it matters we have a commander in chief that respects what those individuals have done. i still stand by my statement. until mr. trump apologizes directly to john mccain and also to the veterans of this country, i don't think he has the

character or the temperament to hold the highest position in this country. >> well are you comfortable appearing on stage with him to debate or do you think he should be kicked out of the debates? >> well, i'm going to let the folks who are putting the debates together but i'm real comfortable being on the stage with him and confronting him on a host of issues he's just wrong on. there's one thing to spew rhetoricut there, but america's looking for somebody that's got some solutions. and i'll be real honest with you, i haven't heard any solutions coming from donald trump. just rhetoric. >> is this a reap what you sow issue here for the republican party? there was an -- the party embraced donald trump four years ago. mitt romney wanted his endorsement. a lot of you were courting donald trump when he dropped out after his birther craze at the time. he actively reached out for him. in hindsight was that a mistake for the party to embrace trump

four years ago? >> his twitter handle is the real donald trump. i'll suggest to you, we're seeing the real donald trump now. >> and that is what? >> well, we're seeing an individual who's more interested in throwing invehicletives in this hyperbolic rhetoric out there rather than laying out solutions. listen, we need somebody as i laid out ten days ago two weeks ago, about how the republican party needs to be reaching out to people of different cultures and races and ethnicities, what we've done in the state of texas, for instance, to let african-americans keep more of what they work for, graduate from high school, as a matter of fact, at the highest rate in america. that's what the republican party needs to be about. that's what we need to hear. frankly, that's what americans are begging for. a leader that has solutions to give them hope that the best days are in front of us as a country. >> rick perry thanks for coming on this morning former governor of texas, appreciate it. i want to remind viewers i

talked to governor perry yesterday as well. we had a more extensive conversation on a variety of issues, including border security his campaign, you can see more of that on our website nbcmeetthepress.com. danielle, has donald trump hijacked the republican party? at what point do you say enough is enough? >> he's an idiot. he's in this for himself. that's always been the donald trump story. he's a rich guy spending his money to promote himself and to mouth off. he wants a tv show. he wants popularity. he'd light his hair on fire if someone would pay attention to him. it might not be a bad thing. >> at some point he might if it runs out. >> he's a side show. he's not a legitimate presidential contender. even though i'm trying not to be political here, i'll tell you he's offended every veteran, offended every hispanic with his comment on immigration. the guy is not a legitimate political -- he's got no organization.

he's a celebrity run amuck. he's insulted, i think what he said about mcin. i disagree with mccain on a lot of issues but here's a guy that was tortured. here's a guy that has defended this country. a war service that's is exemplary. for him to say what he did is not just disgusting and wrong but it should -- you knowfy were a republican candidate, i would not get on the stage with him. they should demand -- they should demand candidate candidate, 15 18 30 that are there, they will not participate in a debate with trum >> listened, i've talked to campaigns who are desperately hoping this is the moment. >> the way he hurt himself, the evangelicals evangelicals, is what he said about communion, confession god, his marriages. that's the rhetoric and the

language he has to worry about in iowa. that's what may have really hurt him with that group. i think the republicans -- it's interesting to note as democrats are saying, they did not stand up against him when he talked to abusively about president obama -- >> as collectively, there are plenty -- >> collectively. republican candidate this is year -- collectively there were some jeb bush, marco rubio. >> and rick perry. >> collectively did not stand up when he's talked about mexico and immigrants with such racial rhetoric. it was only when they -- when he attacked john mccain that the group -- >> let me bring tom in here up. write about in larger sometimes narrative about the state of american politics. i put the question to rick perry does the republican party reap what th sow. the reality show atmosphere of how politics get covered where we have made it easier for donald trump to blow up our campaign process? >> we've turned politics into

sports, it's pspn, politic sports network, not just espn, and when you do that, someone takes it to a logical conclusion and that's what trump is doing. the tragedy is it's happening at a time when we're in an incredible high speed in terms of a change and the pace of change. >> globally millenials, it's this is all over the place. >> governance matters all the time but right now, governance matters -- >> nielle, i interrupted you. >> i thought you were being a little unfair to republicans. i think everybody is at the beginning stages of this process. it started too early. it's starting earlier and earlier every year. there's more and more time for clowns, ridiculous behavior. and i think the republicans haven't found their ground yet. i think that's one of the reasons -- >> well -- >> no no no no. i don't think anyone in the republican party -- >> hispanics are rapists. he said -- >> i don't think there's anybody against -- anybody in the main stream of the republican party that thinks it's okay to

denounce one group -- >> ted cruz defended him. >> speaking of -- >> main stream. >> -- of what's happened here in the immigration -- >> so much for ted cruz. >> one of the thing wes have to remind people, people that do support donald trump are angry about politics in general in washington. they know trump is kind of a clown. >> they're voicing something that's very important. >> that's right. we can't ignore that aspect of it. when we come back, though i want to take a closer look at donald trump's claims about illegal immigrants. we do this in a much more thoughtful way, our immigrants pouring over the border bringing drugs and crime with your baby's chubby little hand latches onto your finger so hard it's like she's saying i love you. that's why aveeno's oat formula is designed for your baby's sensitive skin. aveeno®. naturally beautiful babies.

. nerd screen time. 2016 race is in full swing and thanks to donald trump, it seems like people want to talk about one topic right now, and it's immigration. that's one thing donald trump is right about without him we wouldn't be talking about much. we want to separate some facts from fiction that you've been hearing from him. it turns out there is no evidence to back up trump's now famous claim that imgrants are rapists and bringing crime to the united states. in fact we couldn't find a single study that links violent crime and immigration. moreover, we actually did find one study that says the crime rate among first-generation immigrants, those born elsewhere is lower than overall crime rate among all residents in the united states. trump has also said we have no protection at our borders. well, of course he's right there is a border problem.

but number of illegal immigrants is down. in 2007 there were 12.2 million unauthorized immigrants in the united states. that figure dropped to 11.2 million in 2012, the last year for which we have figures. and then there is his other claim here, are mexicans flooding into the country, as trump suggests. net migration between united states and mexico is, get this, zero. meaning there are just as many people emigrating to mexicos there are mexicans coming from mexico. according to government accountability office border security in the southwest is about 84% effective. that's not perfect but that is a "b" average. the cost to seal the south border is an estimated $28 billion, the annual budget of the entire justice department. the last time the amount of money we've been spending was $18 billion a year. so, we have to find another way if we want to do even more money on that front. there's a lot to say in the immigration story.

in fact, i spoke with two strong voices on either side of the immigration debate. congress castro, and raul labrador from idaho. define the scope of what you think -- do we have an illegal immigration problem in this country right now? >> we do have an illegal immigration problem in the country but we also have a legal immigration problem because we're dealing with legal immigration system from the 1950s. we have to update and modernize the immigration system. we have a problem at the border where we don't know who's coming in, who's leaving. we have a visa entry problem where we -- we know who's coming in legally but they're not leaving and we don't know if they're leaving why they're not leaving. >> same question to you. do you believe we have an illegal immigration problem in this country? >> we're always going to be concerned about securing our border. we were concerned about it five years, ten years ago and we're concerned about it today. i respect raul a lot because five years ago he was part of a ng of eight in the house of representatives trying to come to some kind of solution on

immigration reform. but i do disagree with the facts. the border has never been more secure than it is today. a lot of people don't belve that, people don't like to hear it but the net migration with mexico is at zero. if you look back 20 or 30 years ago, that was not the case. so a lot of the hysteria you see now about illegal immigration is about politician on the right wing, like donald trump playing to a very angry base of people who are engaging in stereotyping immigrants and really blaming them for a lot of the country's ills but we have never committed more resources at the border than today. >> define the idea perception versus reality. do you think there's a little overhype? >> especially when you talk about trump. he overhypes his ties, his suits. everything he talks about he

overhypes. but he hit on an issue -- you have a gentleman who crossed the united states border five times illegal. the only reason he was caught is because he was committing crimes. finally he's caught because he just killed a young woman in san francisco. that's not overhyping. that's a reality. under this president's administration, and he's claiming he's prioritizing criminals, this person was able to be released to a sanctuary city -- >> that's where i want to pause. congressman castro, should we have them? i understand the motivation of some cities and why they did it. it was sort of prosecutorial discretion. it was sort of what do you prioritize? but has it gotten out of hand. has it made it where there's this weird gap between federal authority and state and local authority? >> in texas we don't have sanctuary cities. there is no legal definition of a sanctuary city. as you know, chuck and raul, that term has often been used pejoratively. >> but there are cities that have passed laws -- >> solutely. >> -- that talk about what can

be turned over to i.c.e, immigration enforcement of the federal government, and when should people who are not turned over -- >> you're right about that. but i think the focus on the relationship between the local and federal government is the wrong one. >> is it broken, though? >> oh, absolutely. the whole system is broken. but the focus should be on the question of, who are you going to allow to stay here and obtain legal stat us and who are you going to deport? >> i want to get to this undocumented issue but i also want to get to border security. do me a favor, define amnesty. >> i think amnesty is no questions asked. anybody here gets allowed to stay. you don't vet people u don't prioritize criminals versus others. >> what do you think of that definition? >> i adisagree. benefit over what they're seeking. >> on the 12 million, any path to even legalization is going to be defined as amnesty by some

opponents right? >> it could be. that's why we need to deal with the issues that actually trump is talking about. that's why people are so excited about what he's saying, even though i don't agree with the way he's saying it. people are concerned we have a broken immigration system a border broken, visa system that is broken. they want those issues to be solved first. the american people are rational people. they're good people. they're going to decide what to do with the 11 million once they feel safe and secure in their homeland. right now they don't. >> what do you think about doing it in in that order? you've been more open-minded than others. >> i would say we're open to seeing any sequence at this point on immigration reform whether it starts with border security or something else. we just haven't seen it. they have literally passed nothing since they've taken the majority. >> that's not true. he keeps saying that. we passed an immigration bill three years ago that i was one of the chief drivers of it that was going to deal with the high-tech immigration issues. it passed the house overwhelming, with most republicans voting for it, it went to the senate and the

president said he would veto it. he said he would veto it because there was no comprehensive immigration reform. >> why do you think there's so much -- maybe it's fear, maybe it's concern. why do you think it's out there? economic driven, rural versus urban? what is it? >> the period we're in is no different than when the germans came and experienced a lot of the same biases, when the irish came and there were signs up italians the same thing, the chinese exclusion act. so, we're in a period for latinos and other immigrants similar to that. and i think we will get past it, but it is a fear of the unknown. and it's also exacerbated by people, unfortunately, like donald trump stoking that for political gain and political purposes. >> i'm going to leave it there. you disagree but you did it with smiles and you did it with the way congress should work. thank you for doing this. >> thank you very much. >> and you can see much more of this debate on our website, including the discussion on

whether there's too much legal immigration here in the united states. all of that is on "meet the press" nbc.com. coming up our end game segment. hillary clinton's enthusiasm gap. how serious is it? >> announcer: stay tuned for "end game"

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you by boeing where the drive to build something better inspires us every day. >> probably bernie sanders. >> she turned me away and he fired me up. >> she's having a hard time bring out her authentic self and her true self. >> if she becomes the nominee -- >> oh, yeah. >> -- will you still turn up and vote for her? >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> i would definitely vote for her. >> those are activists at net roots nation a gathering hillary clinton skipped this year because of quote scheduling conflicts. clinton may win their votes but their lack of enthusiasm may hurt her with smam doul ens. 17% of her campaign money came from individual contributions of $200 or less. by comparison bernie sanders raised three-quarters of his money from small donors. he had more small donors than barack obama did in his first fund-raising report eight years ago. clinton leads her rival by 20 points. why is she being forced to prove

again and again she's likeable to the juggernaut she appears to be on paper. watching hillary clinton here trying to appease the progressive movement while also try not to go to far to the left to make her unelectable in the middle. this is a different democratic party, though, isn't it even the one you ran from? >> i didn't do too well so don't take my comments too seriously but let's talk about the demise of hillary clinton and the lack of enthusiasm is so premature. look we're six months away. i can tell you that iowa and new hampshire are the most progressive primaries. i expect she'll get some setbacks there from sanders but you go into super tuesday, new mexico where there's a lot of women and minority voters. she's going to be strong. you know, this talk about the demise, let's remember presidents are elected if they're centrists, if they're

modernists. i think she's headed in that way. >> her campaign director anticipating this noise out there about her campaign, she wrote a memo and said, it's true, hillary is left in the position of having most resources of every candidate and being the voters' top choice as president of the united states. but there is something missing that obama had. >> there's a passion missing. she has to thread this nedle, she doesn't want to offend all the people in new york and wall street that have always supported her but she has to deal with progressive and anti-wall street elizabeth warren and bernie sanders, passionately and getting huge crowds. she's trying to, as i say quit this middle ground, not offend so she can win a general election. and i think so far, the lack of passion is going to be made up by what she hopes will be the women and minorities that then after -- >> sure. >> i agree, though iowa and new

hampshire are going to be troubling. >> tom, what have you seen from her? is she a different candidate as eight years ago or feel like the same hillary clinton? >> it feels a lot like the same. it fools like a campaign made in a test tube n a laboratory, where every chemical is carefully balanced for each voter, each district. i think she would greatly benefit from surprising us by saying i know it offends the base, but i supported it as secretary of state. i think it's good for the country. sorry to offend you, but it's the right thing to do. >> you mean a -- >> yeah she would get a lot more traction on that. >> i have to leave it there. we try to jam a lot in. viewers are hopefully the ones that benefitted from this today. that's all for today. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday it's "meet the press."

it's monday july 20th. a shark attack caught on camera during a surfing competition. and the man who punched the shack to save his own life. >> felt like i got punched and then it was dragging me. i felt like it was just dragging me under water. donald trump's war of word with his senator john mccain heats up as the billionaire strikes a sensitive subject. southern california gets whacked with much-needed rain. the deluge is devastating. bill cosby's own admission concerning drugs, hush money and sexual assault allegations. and the biggest teal