what you have is a selected leak of part of an autopsy that we're now hearing was not enough, at least in some way, according to the d.a. it is complete confusion as far as i'm concerned. >> a lot more on it tomorrow. joy reid, thank you very much for staying with us tonight. firing back. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. donald trump's attack machine has finally encountered armed resistance. today rick perry, the former texas governor hit back hard. >> i can only ask as senator welch did of senator mccarthy, have you no sense of decency, sir? >> well, jeb bush is trying to stay above the crap storm says that trump has been ugly in his description of mexicans as a people and john mccain as a

person. question, is this attack from within going to do the eventual republican nominee such huge harm next year, even if trump stops short of running third party? howard fineman, the director of "the huffington post" and susan page is the bureau chief of usa today. rick perry came to washington to launch an all out assault on trump. we called him a cancer on the party. and that was just the beginning. let's watch him. >> donald trump is the modern day incarnation of the know nothing movement. he breathes the free air thousands of heroes died protecting. and he couldn't have endured five minutes what john mccain endured for five and a half years. [ applause ] when he would seek to demonize millions of citizens, when he would stoop to attack p.o.w.s for being captured, i can only ask as senator welch did of

senator mccarthy, have you no sense of decency, sir? >> howard, you know, the words are tough. i'm not sure it has the same boffo delivery or whatever you want to call it, the firepower of the initial attacks by trump. can anybody stand up to his withering assault? i'm sure he'll hit back at this guy by midnight tonight. >> sure. that's the organization of the ball game right now in the republican side. it's to attack donald trump. it's to be attacked by donald trump. it's to raise your own profile by getting in a fight with him. that's sort of what has happened now. that's what rick perry is doing. and this rick perry compared to the one who ran last time is pretty impressive by comparison. he's using -- he's found a way to at least for a day demonstrate his compassionate

conservative, the fact that he has a more modulated view on immigration, the fact that he wants some kind of reform in that. and he does it by making a contrast with donald trump. i think it was pretty successful. >> we all grew up, i think you did 250, watching "gunsmoke." and every week somebody came into town trying to make their representation by taking on marshall dillon. and they all ended up dead. does this guy got it? rick perry, who has been humiliated by donald trump called the guy with the glasses but you can still tell he ain't smart? can he go into this or is this an oops on his part? >> oh, no, i think it's the right thing for him to do. otherwise he is not in the conversation. the conversation is about trump or trump and fill in the blank. >> howard is right? >> occasionally. how do you get to be the person to fill in the blank. lindsey graham got to be the guy. >> oh, we got that one too. that's coming up. as you would expect, trump is

firing at perry. trump released a photo of perry next to him smiling to the cameras. trump says it's a picture of governor perry in my office last cycle playing nice and begging for my support and money. hypocrite! well, trump also announced that he shedding to perry's backyard in texas tomorrow to tour the border near laredo, texas. in an interview the morning, he said "i may never see you again, but we're going to do it." he is now going off on a frontier mission that could be dangerous, he is suggesting. in other words, going near the mexican border is life threatening. >> yes. he is now -- and he may end up being captured. but he won't be a hero. >> you're not going to hear about him getting captured, especially by the federales. that won't count. we've got to take a look here. what is lindsey graham up to? he put out this amazing commercial. >> hilarious. >> let's watch. yesterday donald trump gave out senator lindsey graham's personal cell number in retaliation for graham calling

him a jackass. and today senator graham tried to outdo that stump by teaming up with the conservative news site ij review. they put out this video entitled "how to destroy your cell phone with lindsey graham." let's watch. ♪ >> or if all else fails, you can always give your number to the donald. >> who came up with using the four seasons as the music there? i got to tell you, that pathetic or is that clever? he stayed up all night producing this thing. >> what other circumstances. if lindsey graham gave a speech about the iran nuclear deal, would we be talking about it? no.

he got himself -- you know, he is a 2% in the polls. but he got himself into the story. >> to see some movie. while he is at the movies last night, this is being produced by this group ij review. i guess he did the stand-ups in the morning. so it's all done now. less than 24 hours. >> chris, he is the sort of weird orange haired may pole around which everybody is dancing at this point. and an example of it is yesterday's. showing the thing with the cell phone. john kasich, a serious, substantive guy, governor of ohio. >> actually a good guy. >> head of the budget committee, you know, the real deal as a potential president announces his campaign. does anybody pay much attention? no. the number one story on cbs radio news at four income the afternoon, the most straight laced news broadcast that there is, recent winner of the edward r. murrow award. >> is keith mcbee still doing that? >> but who do they talk about? what presidential candidate do they talk about at 4:00?

donald trump. >> i agree with you. >> i agree with you. i turn on xm radio coming in this morning. i flick all the stations, fox, cnn, us, everything. they're all on the same topic. he is dominating. last night, jeb bush, who has been trying to stay above the fight, picked a fight with trump. he finally did. let's watch. >> the problem with mr. trump's language is it's divisive. it's ugly. it's mean-spirited. if we embrace this language of divisiveness and ugliness, we'll never win. we'll never win. >> so there you have a gentleman, we all know he is a gentleman. mr. trump he calls him. he talks about embracing language. but in the middle of the shot, it's ugly. he is calling trump ugly in his language. i think trump is going to come back on this one. >> i think it's risky for jeb bush, actually. because trump, whatever you think of him, is appealing to a significant faction of the republican party that's got a

lot of energy and that doesn't trust jeb bush, right. so jeb bush is putting off those people, and he's already got some conservatives raising questions about whether he is a true conservative. maybe he's got no alternative but to push back to some of this. but i don't think it's a slam-dunk for jeb bush who is near the top of the polls. at least he is in the first tier of candidates. >> he is counting on be the nominee. jeb bush so counts on the fact he can outspend these guys and outwait them, here he is trying to cozy up to who i think he wants as his running mate. john kasich, if he doesn't get in this fox debate this august, he is going to give him a shout out. what is all this matchmaking at this point? let's watch. >> john kasich is an effective governor. and has a great record. and he's the host governor of the first debate in cleveland, and he may not be on it. it's odd. but i'm looking forward to being a participant in it. and i'll give a shout out to kasich if he is not on.

maybe he'll be in the crowd if he is not in there. >> what's that? is this like the establishment wing cozying, buddying up? >> he is already setting up the florida-ohio general election ticket. meanwhile, as we make fun of donald trump, you don't make fun of the people who might vote for him. >> yeah. >> and who are now supporting him. and it's the same crowd, mostly white, mostly working class, people who are afraid of them. >> yeah. >> the outside them. the genius of trump is that he's -- as my colleague zach carter wrote, a great piece, he is the plutocrat populist. and he is not blaming wall street. he is blaming china. he is blaming mexico. he is blaming the outsiders. that's the whole thing for him, which conveniently lets the wall street people, including him off the hook. donald trump is saying i'm for free enterprise. i'm a billionaire. it's a little bit of reverend ike. it's a little bit of lee iacocca, a little bit of ross perot, and a little bit of pat

buchanan who ran against trade. pitchfork, but not against wall street. >> it's so smart. marco rubio through out outputting president obama and trump into the same attack zone. i don't like what he says here. let's watch. >> to conduct the presidency, it has to be done in a dignified way with a level of class. >> do you believe donald trump -- >> i don't think the way he has behaved over the last few weeks is dignified or worthy of the office that he seeks. we already have a president now that has no class. >> you know, that's the kind of slur -- that's not a political charge. that's a slur against a man, against the president, that he doesn't have any class. one thing about this -- well, there is a lot of things i can say about him. but look how he has led his life. he has done everything right. he worked hard in school. he got into the good schools. he got to be head of harvard business review. in a blind test to get in.

he got all the way through, and instead of grubbing the money on wall street, he went out to help his people, community. he has done everything right. he has been immaculate in the presidency. nobody has accused him of any corruption. his kids are perfect. his wife is perfect. he has done everything that the right wing white conservatives say we're supposed to be in this country. he has done everything right. and that sleazy comment that he has no class. what does that mean? i would like to get him under sodium pentothal and say buster, what do you mean by no class? what do you mean by that? find out what he does mean. it's a cheap slur that works with the cheap seats in the republican party. you know it does. >> wasn't even part of the theme of -- >> plenty of class. i watched the guy last night on "daily show". he can take any shot. he smiles with it. he has charm. he is debonair about it. you don't have to agree with what he does or say he is a fantastic president. but class i think he's got. >> well, that was marco rubio crudely trying to play to his

own crowd while -- >> who is this crowd that likes that? this peanut gallery? >> i don't think it would play even among a lot of trump's supporters. >> it's a rotten thing to say. and they get away with it because of the attitudes. let me just say that of a lot of the people out there. do you agree with me? >> yes. >> thank you. i know you're hard to argue, you're so objective. but i think as an objective fact, the president has class. coming up, what damage will donald trump do to the republican party and its eventual nominee between i know and next summer? a lot. could trump actually help hillary clinton and the democrats by keeping the heat and undermining his fellow republicans, even if he doesn't run third party? that's coming up. plus, today marks one year since "washington post" reporter jason rezaian was jailed in iran. and pope francis, could that have something to do with the pope's call to do something about climate change and income inequality? you betcha'. finally, president obama makes his final appearance on "the daily show" with jon stewart last night. he gets a few licks against dick

cheney and donald trump. and that's how you pronounce that name. this is "hardball," the place for politics. day.

day. bernie sanders introduced a bill calling for an $15 minimum wage. nearly double the current rate. when asked about his 2016 competitor hillary clinton's stance on the issue, he replied i support $15 an hour. she'll do what she wants. clint's support of the raise of a federal minimum has yet to endorse a specific hourly wage. we'll be right back.

welcome back to "hardball." donald trump's incendiary rhetoric about the mexican people and his vicious personal

attacks on his primary opponents could haunt the republican party. haunt them on election day 2016. next year's republican nominee could wind up with a similar fate as past presidential nominees who have been burnt by nasty primary attacks. back in 1960 new york governor nelson rockefeller's attacks on richard nixon undercut him in his campaign against john f. kennedy. and kennedy jabbed over their dinner that fall. >> the only man so widely respected in american politics that he could bring together amicably at the same campaign table for the first time many this campaign two political leaders who are increasingly apprehensive about the november election who have long eyed each other suspiciously and who have disagreed so strongly both publicly and privately, vice president nixon and governor rockefeller. >> well, in 1976, ronald reagan's challenge to incumbent

president gerald ford proved to weaken ford's cases against jimmy carter. 1980 was al gore's criticism of michael dukakis over prison furloughs that gave george bush a central line of attack in that year's line of election. and mitt romney attacked his business record labeling him a vulture capitalist which the obama campaign used to define mitt romney well before the election. now making sure the republican party, no matter who becomes the nominee owns donald trump and his positions. >> it's shameful, and so is the fact that it took so long for most of his fellow republican candidates to start standing up to him. the sad truth is if you look many of their policies, it can be hard to tell difference. >> but i notice that the other republican presidential candidates immediately jumped on him for that, and good for them.

but where were they when donald trump shot off his mouth about mexican americans? where was he then? the answer was they hid in the shadows. >> so all the restaurant presidential hopeful may not engage in the same repugnant rhetoric, make no mistake, they're all on the same page with donald trump. >> david corn's msnbc political analyst and washington bureau chief of mother jones. i don't know how they're going to get this stench off them. as we said in the first block tonight, either you take the crap he is throwing at you or you throw it back at him. in any case, you get crap on you. it's the case of this campaign. it's really dirty and smelly at this point. >> they're rolling in mud and it's going to keep going. what they're really hoping for is trump continues into the general election. he hasn't ruled out running. >> i'm going by the assumption he may not because it's going to cost him a ton. there is tremendous appeal to getting into a national debate three evenings primetime against the two nominees, which look at the history of how primary battles may or may not affect

the general election, as you went through the setup. but i think what is here is different. this isn't trump undermining jeb bush or scott walker in a particular way because of their own policy failures or problems in the past. it's really tainting the entire republican party and making it hard for anybody else to get a line of thought through. >> to breathe that oxygen. >> what you have, you have the last couple of days, the only attention any candidate has gotten other than donald trump is when they've attacked donald trump. so they're not getting a message out to the party. >> or destroyed your cell phone. >> destroyed their cell phone. even when rand paul went through the tax code, he would have had more success if he was going through donald trump's financial disclosure forms. he is going to keep making the republican circus look circus-like, or more like mud

wrestling. >> let's get ethnic here. if you're hispanic american and you're a voter, as 13% of voters are hispanic in your background, you're going to notice that the republican party was going head stands over this guy. look, he was leading the poll among that party. would you want those voters to set your future and say anybody whoever voted for donald trump in a poll, i don't want them calling the shot who the next president. and a lot of republicans have been saying yes to donald trump. >> that's certainly hillary's criticism and the democrats' criticism. everyone was totally silent him when he was criticizing latinos because it's such a big issue, immigration. it's like the third rail right now. you don't want to say i'm even remotely for any pro immigration stance. amnesty, which is the "a" word that everyone avoids like the plague. everything else he said increasingly, they're just that's not good. oh, that's really not good. and it snowballs then. >> how do they kill him? how do they kill him? what do they do with the body? let's assume he does get the

nomination. i think it's a pretty good assumption. >> i'm not sure. >> what do they do with the body? where do they send him off to? because unless they trash him and deny his credibility, which if they do that, they lose all his votes in the general or a lot of them. how do they get rid of him? >> he is operating under a different set of rules. >> i know. but what are they going to do with him? >> i mean, unless they do something like that, he is here for as long as he wants to stay. >> and he can afford to stay for a while. >> in the republican primary, because the thing, if you call him on anything, he just says you know what? that's just the media. that's the losers. >> in cleveland, right? in prime time? the way it's going. >> oh, i don't know. he may be independent by then. >> he is not. >> well, yes and no. they don't always put the losers up on the platform. >> you guys are both missing my

point. what do you do to kill this guy if you're a republican? >> i don't think they can. they can't. >> how do you get rid of him? >> it's why ted cruz has hardly criticized donald trump because he wants all the voters. >> he wants to get the voters if donald trump actually goes some place or he, you know explodes or self-implodes. i think the problem is he can decide to stay in this race for as long as he is willing pay to stay in the race, which means until the very end. >> the platform speech at the convention, or does he want to be in three national debates? >> three national debates. >> he may want to be in the house over there. >> what house? >> the white house. put a big sign on it. >> is that what's behind me? i think he is going to make more noise, and he is the only one -- hillary even. that wasn't very exciting stuff from her right now. she has not exactly grabbed the attention of the american people. he has ground her out. >> she is happy about that. >> you think she likes that?

>> i think she does. >> for the next six months, it's fine. >> let the circus go. >> more of him, less of her. that's the most unusual campaign in history. don't watch me. thank you. david corn of mother jones. up next, a year in captivity in iran. we'll speak to the brother of an american reporter jailed by the regime a year ago today. are we any closer to getting this guy home? this is "hardball," the place for politics. you know i tried one of those bargain paper towels. but the roll just disappeared. bounty is 2x more absorbent so one roll lasts longer. bounty. the long lasting quicker picker upper.

why pause a spontaneous moment to take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use, is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex.

do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision or any symptoms of an allergic reaction stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial. we're not going to relent until we bring home our americans who are unjustly detained in iran. journalist jason rezaian should be released. pastor saeed abedini should be released. amir hekmati, a sergeant in the marines should be released. these americans need to be back

home with their families. >> welcome back to "hardball" that was president obama yesterday going for the release of the four americans turbulently held in iran. among them is california born journalist jason rezaian who as of today has spent a year behind bars in that country. he was working as the tehran bureau chief of "the washington post" last july when he was arrested and later accused of spying for the u.s. now that a historic nuclear agreement has been reached with iran, president obama is receiving new calls to secure his release. here is how it came up at last week's press conference. kirks you tell the country, sir, why are you content with all the fanfare around this deal to leave the conscience of this nation, the strength of this nation unaccounted for in relation to these four americans? >> the notion that i am content as i celebrate with american citizens languishing in iranian

jails. major, that's nonsense. and you should know better. i've met with the families of those folks. nobody is content. and our diplomats and our teams are working diligently to try to get them out. >> iran's deputy foreign minister confirmed today that the prisoner issue did come up on the side lanes of the nuclear talks, even though their release was not linked to the deal that was finalized last week. i'm joined by ali rezaian who is the brother of jason rezaian and chief correspondent nbc news richard engel. i'm totally excited to have you both on for different reasons. there any sign of getting your brother out? >> jason's trial is ongoing. he had his third day in court just the other day. we expect his next day in court will be the last day of his trial, and then at some point after that, we'll get a judgment from the court.

we just don't know when. >> are you being careful -- you have to be careful about what you would say here, i assume. >> i'm usually careful w what i say. >> in terms of what the hard line owners the court over there might react to? >> it's fair the say i don't want to do anything to hurt jason. >> of course. >> our hope is they'll look at the evidence, that folks within the iranian government will have time to look at the evidence and -- >> who calls the shot, if this is as we all see it, as a complete injustice, that there was no spying, no reason to believe there was spying. if it was complete injustice, a stunt, a political stunt, international stunt, who would make the call and say we've done enough. let's let the guy go. who makes the calls? the judges? it doesn't seem that the judges have the power to do that. >> i don't think people realize there is a give and take there. everybody has their own amount of political power, their chips that they can put in. i think it's a combination there is the judiciary, there is the

president, and there is the supreme leader. >> how do we talk to the iranian ayatollahs? do we say if you let the guy go, we'll say something good about you? we won't dump on you again? they'll get some international payment in a sense they'll look good? what do you do as an american to get a guy out of this situation? >> well, you have to understand iran is a very divided society. it has a very divided political system like this country has a very divided political system is. and there are three real centers of power. you the presidency, which is represented by the reformers, the moderates, the people who are negotiating the deal. then you have the judiciary and the security services who are holding his brother, and they are hard-liners. they do not listen to the presidency. and then you have the supreme leader that sort of oversees it all. and you have to try and negotiate and direct your message to the certain parties that are appropriate. so in the case of his brother, and i can understand why he is being cautious with what he says, his brother is being held by the hard-liners in the regime, the security services, the judiciary, who aren't happy that there is a deal going on, don't necessarily want to see -- >> why did they grab him? >> that's debatable. some people have said they grabbed him because they were

suspicious that he was there. he was reporting. he was married to an iranian woman. it was uncomfortable. some people say they grabbed him to embarrass the government, which was going out to negotiate a deal. the negotiators, by the way -- >> but he has press credentials. he is a professional journalist with "the washington post." a very well-known organization. "the washington post" is everywhere. >> said he was a friend of jason's, liked him personally. >> yeah. the work he was doing was all credentialed. he was doing his work by the rules that they have over there. and, you know, i think in general, he was fair. he showed a different perspective on iran that we saw. and there was no flame throwing there. he was journalist, a professional journalist. >> straight news. >> and he had contacts that he used to make sure he was reporting correctly. >> i still wonder if they understand that or even respect that, the free flow of information. >> anyway, wisconsin governor scott walker, who is running for

president, issued a press release today calling the four americans held hostages, comparing their detention to the 1979 iranian hostage crisis that occurred under the presidency of jimmy carter. this is walker. quote, today's iran's ruler cease our sitting president as weak, much like they saw carter. amid all of president obama's dangerous concessions in the iran nuclear deal, he has failed to get americans back home to their families. the iranians won't release our fellow citizens until they have a commander they respect are written for him by somebody he has hardly ever met. this kind of cheap shot at carter, cheap shot at president obama after this nuclear deal when the stakes are so high seems like low level politics to me. >> well, it's an oversimplification. you have to also understand the dynamic. you mentioned there are four americans detained in iran. it's actually three. three americans detained in iran and one is missing. went missing from iran. >> what does that mean in effect?

>> he went to iran. and this is the one unlike the other. you notice the three were iranian americans. >> yeah. >> and then you have levinson who is not an a iranian american. he went there. it's unclear what happened to him. >> don't have him in custody if they don't have him in custody? >> because they don't have him custody as far as -- >> they say that. >> they say they don't know where he is. so if you asked, if you listen to the quote from president obama, he didn't say release levenson. he said give us information to help find him. so this goes back to -- and these distinctions are important. you the three iranian americans. iran considers them iranians. so iran says this is a domestic issue. these are iranians. we don't recognize their american passports. these are people who we are trying. they are in our court system. leave us alone. >> so if you're married to an iranian, you become an iranian? >> that's absolutely correct. if your parents were an iranian, you are an iranian citizen.

>> this is like north korea. everybody is a korean. >> as long as you live, you're a korean. >> your family exists, you're a korean. >> exactly. for iranian americans going there and there is a special degree of risk because we consider them americans who are of iranian extraction. the iranians say once iranians, always iranians. >> but when he checked in and became a credentialed correspondent in tehran, there was no challenge to him then? there was no we got you, we're going to arrest you. >> for years he was reporting fairly and didn't have problems. he had very good relationships with the folks at the credentialing organization. and, you know, what happens to folks like jason and myself if they're over there is that you don't get consular access. you don't have access to the red crescent or the red cross when you're in jail. you're denied those kinds of consular access. >> has the foreign minister ever contact you'd or have you contacted him, the guy who negotiated the nuclear deal? >> zarif, i have sent him e-mails and he has sent me brief responses. >> can he help? >> what he said is it needs to

work through the legal process, the judicial process before anything can happen. >> i think it's as if it's a legal process. >> that's what they've been saying since day one. >> there is a pocket that he has one more session in court. if the hard-liners convict him to something, maybe they convict him to time served, then the judiciary system feels like it had its say, everyone has respected the process, and then he could get out. that's the best scenario. >> that's why they want this nuclear deal to go through, this act of generosity -- >> the negotiators, i think zarif would be half if he got out today. >> i think it's going to help the relationship dramatically if your brother gets out. good luck. i've got the button. you're great to keep coming on. and richard engel, who is my hero. like the cop on "hill street blues." it's dangerous out there. up next, pope francis sees his popularity slipping somewhat among catholics and conservatives because he is taking positions. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

kids are expensive. so i'm always looking to get more for my money. that's why i switched from u-verse to xfinity. they have the most free on demand tv shows and movies on all my devices. it's perfect for me because my kids are costing me a fortune. i'm going to cabo! [ music plays ] don't settle for u-verse. xfinity is perfect for people who want more entertainment for their money.

welcome back to "hardball." a new gallup poll shows that pope francis' overall popularity in the u.s. has dropped markedly in the last year. today 59% overall view him favorably while in 2014 was up there at 76%. the biggest drop was with political conservatives, going from 72% down to a minority position of 45%. and with u.s. catholics, the pope's popularity dropped 18 points, going from 89% to 71%, which is still pretty good. this comes as the pope is becoming a factor in american politics. catholic presidential candidates are being forced to contend with the pontiff's policy positions on income inequality climate change. and in september, the pontiff will address a joint session of the u.s. congress here at the request of speaker john boehner himself, a roman catholic. joining me at the roundtable is clarence page of the chicago tribune, susan milligan of u.s. news and world report, and alex seitz-wald. i am roman catholic. the years of almost pick your cafeteria catholics, the conservatives love the pope's position on certain things. obviously life and same sex. the liberals like war and capital punishment and immigration.

so it's always been a case of pick the part you like and ignore the other part. here we go again. >> yeah, you can pick the pope too, right? john paul ii was much more aligned with conservatives than pope francis. and if you're a social conservative catholic, you've been losing a lot of issues. you just had the supreme court issue on gay marriage and now looks more like bill de blasio and can't be too happy about it. >> really? big bird? >> susan milligan? >> what's interesting, i mean, you're right that the catholic church is against capital punishment and the death penalty and so forth. but you never saw the bishops lobby on that on the hill or for aid for the poor. you saw them lobby on abortion. >> why not? >> because their issue was abortion. that's pretty much the only -- >> life? doesn't climate change, the closing down of this planet at some point in the distant

future, the end of human life on this planet have something to do with the life issue? >> you red the encyclical. the interesting thing to me about this pope, he is actually appealing to the very people that the republican party needs to attract to a keep that party viable, young people, gays and lesbians and so forth. and yes, the church is still against gay marriage, but he is certainly much more inclusive. >> he took away the idea. vatican 2 really said no more anti-semitism. you can't have all these attitudes about gay people. homophobia is not acceptable, even though we don't agree as a church. no more attacking people because they're gay. >> thing goes beyond just catholics. and raising this whole idea of the connection between religion and morality in his view of it, and the view of some of the candidates out there and how religion is connected to morality. i think there is going to be a division in the presidential race. i think see really setting an

example that is historic. >> i think most liberal catholics that i know about, including one i know very well, me, happens to like him a lot. and we wonder, a lot of jewish people i know who -- well, they're religious in some cases, but maybe not even religious at all. >> right. >> find this guy wonderful. >> i'm really struck by how timely his remarks are. rather than get hung up on issues that they know the church is not going to move on like abortion or gay marriage. >> that's doctrine. that's hart to touch. >> exactly. >> talking about things like income inequality, and the environment, both of which are very timely issues right now, and the public on the whole is moving in that direction. and i think he has speaking as a protestant who has lived for a long time in chicago. >> what are you? >> i'm a fallen away unitarian at the moment. but chicago got the biggest archdiocese in the country, has always been a place where -- >> conservative catholics too. >> traditional. >> bernadine.

>> bernadine was not. >> thank you. half dozen presidential candidates for 2016 are themselves roman catholic. and the pope's views on climate seems at odds with many of them. on the eve of the encyclical on climate, jeb bush told campaigners while campaigning in iowa he respected the pope, but he would not take political guidance as he put it from the head of his church. >> i don't go to mass for economic policy or things in politics. i have enough people helping me along the way with that. >> that was a little sarcastic. what do you think? during the civil rights movement, we took a lot of leadership from protestant minister, martin luther king, all kinds of people, his father, daddy king. we did accept the fact that the church, broadly defined has a role in our social and political life in this country to the betterment of this country. >> jeb bush and the other catholic candidates are kind of stuck in a little bit of a hard place here. they're taking the line that they're not scientists.

they have dug themselves in on climate change. >> you don't know you are gay because you grew up that way, were that way from the time you can remember or had some multiple choice test in high school and decided which ones to block. >> they're not social scientists. >> this guy, it's weird. they don't look like they think about anything. >> but it's that same pick your topic. on abortion, they're going to be with the pope here. and on climate change and on income inequality, they're not. but i think this poll also shows a little bit of the honeymoon effect. liberals have fallen off. when the pope comes there is all this great expectation. >> why do they lose the honeymoon feeling? >> you put everything you hope and expect for any new leader. the same thing happened when obama came in. once the rubber hits the road, liberals might be disappointed that it hasn't come to pass yet. >> can't stay with anybody long? >> absolutely. >> that's it. >> >> i think there is something about just looking up to anybody

for a long period of time, whether it's obama. >> yeah. >> we just have lost the ability to stay entranced like they used to be with franklin roosevelt. >> especially when they're dealing with controversial issues every day. >> not the liberals. i think this guy has been pretty good on all the liberals issues. liberals should love him. >> it's faith in any institution. no one trusts the military, the white house, or the vatican. >> the shelf life of greatness. it's short. anyway, the roundtable is staying with us. up next, president obama makes his final appearance on jon stewart's "daily show." i stayed up and watched it. it was great. this is "hardball," the place for politics. look at that beautiful hotel on tripadvisor. wait. why leave the site? don't you know the tripadvisor you've always trusted for reviews, book! now checks over 200 websites

to find the best price? book...book...book! over 200 ses checked to find the best price. so don't just visit tripadvisor... book at tripadvisor.

president obama departs tomorrow, believe it or not, for a two-country week-long visit to africa. he'll arrive first in kenya, the birthplace of his father for his first trip to that country since 2006. and after kenya, the president will head to ethiopia before returning home. and we'll be right back.

i can't believe that you're leaving before me. in fact, i'm issuing a new executive order. that jon stewart cannot leave the show. [ cheering ] it's a -- it's being challenged in the courts. >> yes. i have to say, for me this is a states right issue. this is not -- >> we're back with the roundtable, clarence, susan and alex that was president obama last night on "the daily show" with jon stewart making his last appearance before stewart's 16-year run comes to a close on august 6th. boy, that's coming up. that's before the debate. president obama talked about his hopes for his last 18 months in office and the ongoing fight over the iranian agreement. he threw in a little levity too regarding the iranian agreement.

>> when you hear the critics talk about, well, it's a bad deal. we could have got a better deal. you then ask them what represents a better deal. what it is you think could happen? typically, they're vague, and they fall back on, well, if you beat your chest a little bit more. >> if you had just done it in 2011, they would give you the country. >> or if you had brought dick cheney to the negotiations. >> let's not get crazy. >> everything would be fine. >> it's dick cheney, mr. president. get the pronunciation right. that's the family pronunciation. i'm watching last night, the whole 25 minutes he was on, i kept thinking maybe this is obama worship. i don't think so. all the things he's got on his mind in the world, every trouble spot in the world is breaking out, and here he is casually with this debonair quality chat wag comedian as if he has no other job except for being pretty good on this that's compartmentalization. how do you make that fit in your

head? >> shea good multitasker for one thing. also, this is the relaxed obama with the senioritis as stewart said early on in the show. >> as a win-loss record. >> i remember a time early in the obama presidency when he was playing hard to get to "the daily show." the best you could get was a satellite feed. this time he is right there, live, man. taking all the applause. >> take a look at this. stewart also gave president obama the opportunity to comment on his potential successor, donald trump. let's listen. >> if people are engaged, eventually the political system responds despite the money, despite the lobbyists. >> after seven years, is that the advice you then bequeath to future president trump? [ laughter ] >> well, i'm sure the republicans are enjoying mr. trump's current dominance of their primary. >> anything that makes them look less crazy.

>> you like that choice of words? dominance. not up in the polls, but dominance. >> he is enjoying the dominance. >> i think it's a president who is enjoying his stance in the polls. >> right. >> obviously, it puts republicans in an awkward situation. >> thank you so much, alex, clarence page, susan milligan and alex seitz-wald. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. meta is clinically proven to help lower cholesterol. try meta today. and for a tasty heart healthy snack, try a meta health bar.

sci-fi survive five yes, playing southern judge in the defiant ones. when he was playing himself, he was a renowned folk singer and political activist, protesting in the civil rights movement and

outspoken against police abuse in 2015. he died yesterday at 91. a u.s. citizen since 1961. a hero to the arts. a guy who could play anyone in any accent but whose true allegiance was this to have this country's best values. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight -- >> get out of the car now. >> texas police rerelease the sandalra bland dash cam video. >> get out! >> tonight, breaking news regarding the arresting officer. did law enforcement go too far? then, trump attacks perry. >> he put glasses on so people let's he's smart. and it just doesn't work. >> today, perry strikes back. >> donald trump is the modern day incarnation of the know-nothing movement. plus, our first official look inside the trump vault. and why this man