breaking news leads "the cycle" today. the second mass shooting leaves another community reeling and as we come on the air, we are about to learn new details about the shooter from police there in his hometown. officials in phenix city expected to share what they know about john russel houser from his time living there. we've also just learned more about the condition of the injured. here's what doctors at lafayette general medical center said minutes ago. >> a total of nine patients were treated and transported by ems. three patients were sent to each of the three hospitals in lafayette and then the -- we received two patients via private vehicle.

>> most of them were extremity wounds. one person, one patient had a torso wound and that's the abdomen and his wounds were in the torso and lower extremities. all of our patients are expected to have a full recovery soon and soon be discharged from the hospital. >> two people were killed. 33-year-old jillian johnson passed away after being taken to the hospital. the singer musician graduated from the university of louisiana-lafayette in 2004. 21-year-old mayci breaux found dead at the scene. thomas roberts spoke to her 16-year-old sister just last hour. >> later on my dad called and tells us that she got shot and she's not -- she's gone. >> you were very close? i mean -- >> very close. >> she is your big sister. >> yes. she taught me how to be the strong person i am today. she taught me not to care what

other people think. and taught me how to be a good person. >> all of this believed to be at the hands of 59-year-old john russel houser who police say sat sigh lntly for 20 minutes in a showing of "train wreck" before opening fire trying to escape in the commotion and returning to the theater to take his own life. let's get right to nbc's craig melvin in lafayette. there are also some stories of heroism e moerching from last night. what do we know and what's the latest on the shooting? >> reporter: one of the stories of heroism was this teacher who apparently despite being shot in the leg managed to pull the fire alarm which sent folks scattering out of that theater. law enforcement saying it was probably the pulling of the fire alarm that saved lives here. a picture of the shooter continues to emerge.

it seems every 20 or 30 minutes we are getting new nuggets. and the past 30 minutes, we have found out from the lagrange georgia, police chief, we spoke with him by phone and he said that at one point the shooter owned a bar in lagrange georgia. the bar was shut down after law enforcement raided it. for underage drinking. >> i'm sorry. i'm going to jump in and go to that presser in phenix city alabama, now. >> anywhere around us here and so we're -- this is an ongoing case and i hope you understand that it is still early. so we will be focusing today on strictly mr. houser's involvement with my department here the sheriff's office in the time frame he lived here in phenix city. as best we can tell mr. houser lived at 1101 32nd street off

and on from '05 until '14. and he also had a residence in columbus. him and his family are mainly from columbus georgia. he did move over here with his wife and lived at that address off and on. during the time that he was here in 10/23 of '05 there was a domestic violence complaint against mr. houser. that was never prosecuted for but the complaint was filed with the police department here. in '06, mr. houser applied for a concealed carry permit with my office here. that permit was denied. the reason for the denial was we

had the report of domestic violence against him and in '89 or '90 he was arrested for an arson case in columbus georgia. so, at the time he applied for his permit he had the arson arrest in his history and as well as the domestic violence report. in '07, he reported a stolen vehicle with phenix city police department. about 30 days later, my office recovered that stolen vehicle out in the county. and was returned to him through the phenix city police department. from that point we didn't have any involvement other than some complaints where he was actually the complainant. up until 2014. in 2014, our office served an unlawful detainer on him on an eviction process.

at that point, and that was at the address of 1101 32nd street. and at that point, he left the residence but he went back and actually did some damage some vandalism to that address. and a report was made by the owner at that time about the damage. there was no warrant signed again, by the victim. and so he was not arrested in that charge. he was just listed as the offender. at that point, we don't show any address that he lived here from that point on. everything from what we see is when he started kind of moving around and staying from one place to another. that's really all the involvement that our office has with mr. houser. there are some other involvements in columbus.

there's some other things that he did in columbus. i understand that he was active politically over there. in the columbus area. i understand that he actually ran for public office a time or two in columbus. none of that occurred here in phenix city. i'll open it up for questions. understand, please that this is an early investigation and there is some information that may or may not be able to be released. >> the domestic violence arrest in 2005 was that prosecuted by -- >> it wasn't an arrest. let's make sure we're clear. it was only a report made with the police department. he was never arrested for that domestic violence. so make sure we understand. it was a report and the report detailed what occurred. but he was never arrested. >> why wasn't there a

prosecution? or an arrest. was that the choice of the people that filed the report? >> yes. looking at it the -- of course the laws today are certainly different than they were in '05 and it looks like in '05 there was never any follow-up by a victim to sign a warrant. >> did you dispatch anyone to the residence? >> we did not. the columbus -- phenix city police department did. >> they would have the report? >> yes, sir. >> what was the violence or what was the damage in 2014 to the property? >> several damages. he according to the report there was concrete poured down the plumbing pipes. there was a lot of damage to the gas pipes coming in to the home. so there was, there was a significant amount of damage. to the home. >> do you know of any history of

mental illness that he had? >> i can tell you that we believe that he was being seen in '08 and '09 for mental illness here. and we have no idea about that mental illness record. the medical records as you know were sealed and we don't know what he was being treated for. >> that didn't play any role into denying -- >> no. the denial of his concealed permit was simply the domestic violence report from '05 about a year prior to him applying for the permit. and the arson arrest that he had in early '90. >> one more question. you said he lived off and on at that address. about 11 years, 9 years? did he own that home? >> the best we can tell the home was bought by the housers

probably around i'm thinking '11, 2011. it still is -- was in their name. it was foreclosed on. and the owner who bought it out of foreclosure is who had him evicted. and then at the point that he got evicted he went back and did the damage. >> would you classify it as booby traps? that's how they classify it. >> certainly i think the gas issue is what they were talking about with the booby traps. i think that was dangerous and could have been extremely dangerous. >> sheriff, on the arson arrest was there a conviction in that case? >> there was no the. actually, the case to my understanding, the case was dismissed at grand jury. any other questions? >> does that mean it was leaking out, that there was actually gas in the house? >> you know my understanding is that he had done something to

the gas line coming in to the fireplace. there was a gas fireplace. >> yeah. >> and that he had tampered with that so that it -- if you were to have turned it on it would have been blowing fire you know, out. so it was certainly maybe being considered a booby trap like he said. >> okay. >> any other questions? >> sir, yes. people are wondering why would such an extensive rap sheet, this individual not either in jail or an institution getting help. can you explain how he continued to get -- >> well, i mean, when you say an extensive rap sheet, he is never arrested in phenix city alabama, or russell county. things he got arrested for were in columbus. that case was dismissed.

i just think that oftentimes victims for whatever reason don't want to follow through with prosecution. if it's misdemeanors, there are certain, you know, restrictions on police making that case. certainly, whoever investigated it didn't find it enough to do follow through with the warrant. i can't speak to that as far as that goes. and the mental health side you know there's cuts being made all over about mental health and that's what's so scary for us in law enforcement and should be scary for the community is you know, the states and the cut that is are being made as far as mental health around the state is allowing a lot of these people that should not be walking around to be out in the community. and, you know, that's a scary

scenario that we're dealing with every day and it's a financial decision that people way above my grade are making to close mental health facilities. >> were there any warrants for his arrest out as of yesterday? were there any warrants for his arrest at that time? >> to my knowledge, no, sir. i'm not aware of any outstanding warrant for him period. >> he's never been in your jail. right? >> he's never been in the russell county jail at all. >> do you have any idea why he was in lafayette? >> i don't. i'm sure that that's something that may come out later in the investigation with those -- with the pd there. but we have no idea at this point. >> has your department been in touch with his family? >> we have not. i understand that there have been reached out to and they

have been spoke to. but not by us. >> are they still in this area? >> i don't think so. so really sheriff, as far as russell county phenix city is concerned, you were not on your radar as somebody violent or mentally ill? >> no, sir. he actually did most of his activism for nontaxes and things like that in columbus. and he was born and -- i say born, he was raised in columbus. his family's from columbus. he did, however, live over here. he did apply for a pistol permit here and was denied but his main time that he spent in this area was really in columbus georgia. >> do you have a character -- >> not to my knowledge. any other questions? >> who filed the domestic violence? >> his wife.

>> did you see anything in the record that would have prevented him from buying a gun legally? the mental health issues? >> i didn't see anything in the record that really would have stopped him. well i shouldn't say that. i do see that in '08 and '09 he was treated for mental illness so that should have stopped him from buying a weapon. >> why was he denied for the pistol permit? >> because of his arrest for arson and report of domestic violence against him from '05. anything else guys? ladies? all right. >> thank you, sir. >> thank you all so much. >> is this the hottest day? >> it is. >> you have been listening to the sheriff of phenix city alabama, giving us an update on

houser's interactions with law enforcement there in phenix city. his hometown. i want to xwri in craig melvin and contributor and former profiler for the fbi clint van zandt. craig, i interrupted you. you were listening in. tell us what you found of significance of what we're learning of john russel houser. >> reporter: it sounds like he was well-known to law enforcement. that might be an understatement. they denied a concealed carry permit in 2000 because of domestic violence complaint. we found out about some alleged arson there, as well. i found it particularly interesting that he was politically active apparently in columbus georgia. not phenix city alabama. columbus, georgia, where he is from. we heard from law enforcement earlier that there were some postings and some writings on social media that they were starting to take a good long

hard look at and perhaps finding more about those at the news conference. i talked to a former mayor earlier on the air who said that houser was political. and that he also had a penchant for becoming angry so it sounds like we are starting to get a pretty good idea of who this guy was. before that news conference started i was recounting a story from a police chief in lagrange georgia. about 45 50 miles from columbus georgia. the police chief in lagrange said apparently one point houser owned a bar there. the bar had been shut down because of repeated violations and going back and forth with city officials. and when they finally took the bar from him, he hung a nazi flag from the bar and so large it could be seen from the main roadway. so that's the kind of guy that the shooter appears to have

been. it's very interesting to see what law enforcement gleans from some of these postings we know they have and that we know they're starting the look at. >> yeah. clint, you know the story that leads us to this moment is very difficult. we talk about domestic violence. there's an arson arrest. there's a history of mental illness. craig was referring that interview with the former mayor of phenix city calling him angry and a ticking time bomb. even we started to hear about the vandalism that he did at a home that he was forced to vacate. and he cut up several large goldfish and left them in the house. leaving a sort of disgusting message for the new owners. what do you make of what we know about this shooter and what happened last night? >> it's what we know about so many shooters in the past. i mean you guys have covered

these stories. and it's kind of the old not to make light of this deja vu all over again. we're hearing in this case somebody with a ten-year domestic violence mental health history at the very least. and who knew about it? just as craig and you were just talking. say the family knew about it. the mental health community knew about it. law enforcement knew about it. his friends knew about it. local officials. the media. this guy was on cable television ranting and raging on a local area. about various things. everybody saw the mask that this guy wore that was kind of frightening but nobody put it together as a threat. but look. this is somebody who was going to commit domestic violence. somebody who was going to commit arson. his wife took the guns away. he was committed for a while for mental health issues.

he was diagnosed with manic depression and bipolar. does that mean you act out angrily? no. you take the combination of events and one more time seeing someone that somebody should have had a handle on this guy. somebody should have been able to reach out and say, you know what? he is passed the line of just writing him off as a local nut or something like this. this is someone who poses a potential threat to himself. but when's the legal definition? if you don't pose that active immediate threat to yourself or to others we sit around and we wait for the quote/unquote time bomb as he's been described to go off again. these stories just repeat themselves and when we look at his behavior shooting in a movie theater, parking a car behind the building disguises. he's geng to get away. this is all almost a carbon copy of the three years ago, the shooting, the trial that's going

on in colorado right now. this behavior is predictable in some ways. but the question is even if we think someone's going to act out, how do we intercede? how do we stop them before they commit a violent act like this? >> that remains a greatest challenge moving forward. especially on the issue of mental health. you have mentioned a lot of things we are learning about this shooter. but one thing we don't know yet is the motive. why did he want to do this? and why he came to lafayette to begin with when he's not from there. me's from phenix city alabama. what would officials be doing right now to figure out what was behind this and possible there's no motive and he was just a man with some mental issues. >> yes. see, there's a motive. there will be a motive. we call these individuals sometimes wound collectors. this is someone who feels that he's been wounded many times in

his life. he saves these offenses and they build up and build up and build up. why go to a movie theater? only he could tell us. again, it's been in the media x number of weeks and the trial taking place in colorado and he would realize that's a target rich environment. and if in fact he held everybody, you me all of us in society, if we were all responsible, then anybody could be responsible. and somehow he appears to have fan that sized in his mind that he could take at least two magazines of ammunition a pistol, go into the high ground in that theater and you got to imagine for that challenged mind the greatest mental after dose yak is power of life and death and he sat up there fully able and capable of taking the lives and all of these totally innocent people would have to scramble, run, try to get away

and then in his fantasy thinking that he could escape to his car, put a disguise on and get away. yeah, this is someone who appears to be seriously sick. mental illness wise. but again, how do we stop the people who are watching this today who a week from now or two weeks from now will say to themselves, that's a good idea. maybe that's how i'll get even with the world, to. >> i want to bring in gail saltz of new york presbyterian hospital. gail you have been listening. we are learning -- gail we are learning more about the shooter's past here. past quite alarming here. you hear e stanged from his family in 2008. his wife feared for her life and their daughter. a drifter at times living in and out of motels. talk to us about how you are reading this and are you shocked for the most part he's remained off the radar?

>> i'm not shocked this he's remained off the radar. most of the people in the past at least who committed these mass kinds of killings fit this mold. they are loners. they are people with a history of aggressive or violent behavior, not necessarily the level they commit but at some point level. i want to make clear that the vast vast vast majority of people with bipolar disorder never do anything violent. but if you add -- so in other words it's not so much the bipolar disorder as a history of repeated aggression and violence, the construing of slights and things that have happened to you as being somebody else's fault to handle by being violent in some way. that's a risk factor. we don't know yet about substance abuse or abuse f. that's involved that's also factor

and the age and the loner aspect of it the angry aspect of it the vengeful aspect, those are all typical pieces of people who do commit mass crimes like this. >> so gail one thing that kept coming up in that press conference and question a lot of people's minds is how is this guy not found earlier and imprisoned? given what you give the vast jrt of those with mental illness are not dangerous and can't lock everybody up. that's unfair and whatnot. there are a lot of people who are loners a lot of people with unpleasant interactions and records of domestic violence and other things that you know are not still in prison. is there a way to identify these people? should we expect that people like this will be stopped beforehand or basically just you know some people are necessarily going to slip through the cracks because you can't identify them in advance? >> first of all, i would say, you are right. there are many many people who

fit the bill and will not go on to do this. however, it is -- you know if you're asking me personally, as a clinician, i would asay to you that the police are right. we don't have enough resources for people who, frankly, do need more clinical help and might at least get the kind of help that would prevent them from being as angry and vengeful and taking it out as they are. that's one mees. not locking up people with mental illness. that's inane. it's too easy for anybody to get a gun and the police did state that honestly given the person's history he should not have been able to get a gun. that system is in place and we don't have the manpower to really do what we say we're supposed to be doing. so not everybody should be able to get a gun. that's the case right now. this person shouldn't have been

able to. i would question why anybody needs to bring a weapon into a movie theater. period. so, you know i mean i think there are different places where you would want wonder. there's mass places that people collect that there is no reason to have a weapon. you're not hunting. you're not doing something that rirls a weapon. and i would ask do you need to have a weapon in those places? maybe if this is what's been going on in our country, we need to question that. where is it appropriate? where do you have the, you know right to protect yourself or the right to have a weapon? that's obviously a political question. it's not a clinical question. i think as a clinician we need to be looking at where the dollars are going and providing enough mental health services if we know that substance abuse puts you at risk certain angry disorders let's say put you at risk and are those people getting the kind of care and

then whoever does interact with the care system are they on a list that's being implemented such that they cannot get a weapon? this clearly is a man that shouldn't have. >> thank you so much for your help understanding this tragedy today. i want to bring craig melvin back in. what will happen there in lafayette now? >> reporter: we are expecting an update from law enforcement here at the movie theater. 5:00 local. 6:00 eastern. at this pintoint, we hope to learn more. going back to a question you raised, this idea of a motive. that's the number one question. why, why why, why. the police chief here said earlier there is a chance that you know even after they talk to everyone they gather all the evidence in this case there's a chance we may not have as clear of a picture as we would like. we may not have a complete answer to that question. and the other big question is why lafayette? he was living at motel 6 for at

least three weeks. since early july. he has no family here right now. how did he end up in lafayette? but the picture that continues to emerge of the shooter unfortunately is a picture that we have seen far too many times in this country, guys. >> all right. thanks for your reporting there. appreciate it. and turning to the latest on another mass movie theater shooting, witness testimony today in the second penalty phase of the dark knight trial as jurors decide whether james holmes will be put to death. scott cohen is outside the courthouse. i understand witnesses testified but no jurors were in the court to hear it. explain that for us. >> reporter: right. we had a juror who was sick had a sinus infection and they let the jurors go home. let this juror hopefully recover over a long weekend and some witnesses for the defense not available to testify next week. they were here today and so they

basically took their testimony. there was cross-examination by the prosecution. it's all on videotape. it will be played back for the vurs where they return. throughout this case whenever the juror had the juries in the courtroom, he reminds them not to read about this case. today he added the words, this case or any case like it. it's pretty clear he was referring to lafayette. >> all right. scott, thank you so much for your update on that story. we're going to be back with the latest in the political world. that's next.

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moving now to the political arena, donald trump is back from the border and this morning talking with "morning joe." >> my question for you, though is, when you get to the end of the day do you want the job of being president? the next decade of your life. january of 2025 you would be out of that job fighting with

congressmen on capitol hill every day. is that something you want? >> it is because i want to make the country great. i can do it. nobody else is going to be able to do it. >> let's get to reporter erin mcpike. the question i wonder is does trump himself think that he is able to win the presidency? i think there's a lot of people who think plopping them in the oval office they would do a great job and winning the thing is very very difficult. so let's be make you an amateur or an armchair psychologist for a moment. look into the mind of trump and please tell us if you think he believes that he can win this thing. >> well, look. he is a little bit narscissistic. i'm sure he thinks he can win. he tells us over and over again how smart he is and how much money he's made. that's correct. the other thing to point out is we keep pointing out all of his crazy remarks. we know he embellishes and says

things that are bonkers and not changing anything. he continues to right now be the front-runner for the republican nomination for president. and i don't think he's going anywhere any time soon and always compareing it to the flings of the last campaign. it wasn't until there was serious journalism done, a lot of opposition research digging into backgrounds. i think he'll continue to be the front-runner. >> josh, i'm not sure if he's a fact checker's dream or nightmare. >> definitely a dream. i think one of the things on "morning joe" demonstrates a hazard to the donald trump run and talked about how terrible illegal immigration is and joe asked him about policy and gave an answer i thought was kind of surprising. >> what do we do with the 11 million undocumented workers already here? we won't send them back to mexico. that's not possible. >> the first thing is take the bad ones of which there are

unfortunately quite a few. we take the bad ones and get them the hell out. we get them out. the other ones i'm a big believer in marriage system. i have to tell you. some of the people have been here, done a good job. you know? and some cases sadly they have been living under the shadows, et cetera, et cetera. we have to do something so whether it's merit or whether it's whatever, but i'm a believer in the merit system. if somebody's been outstanding, we try to work something out. >> that was basically a call for an amnesty. or what people like donald trump usually call an amnesty for at least some of the unauthorized immigrants in the united states. is this going to fly when republican voters find out this is the position on immigration? >> we have to hear his position. he is talking a lot about border security and there's a big chunk in the republican party of voters who want to see border security dealt with first. he just went down to the border yesterday for a fact finding mission, it was a photo-op.

he has to come back and give a big immigration address. this is going to be the cornerstone of his campaign going forward and hear more from him and hear specifics. if he doesn't get there, he also may take a bit of a nosedive. >> great point. erin erin, there's a big political story today and it's focused on hillary clinton. and her use of private e-mail serves as secretary of state. the justice department asked to look into a potential compromise of classified information in connection with clinton's personal account. the doj says this is not a criminal reference and the department has not yet decided how to proceed. if there is an investigation, the big question is whether it focuses on clinton or someone else who e-mailed her. clinton spoke about it just a few moments ago. >> i have released 55,000 pages of e-mails. i have said repeatedly i will answer questions before the house committee.

we are all accountable to the american people to get the facts right. and i will do my part. >> msnbc political reporter what brought this on? how much worse can i get it for clinton on this? >> yeah. it looked very very bad at first and now looks not very, very bad. when "the new york times" initially reported this it was a criminal investigation and specifically about hillary clinton. 16, 18 hours later, it appears to be not a criminal investigation and not targeted specifically on clinton. this could be something that somebody e-mailed to her. it could be something that was involved in the foia process releasing the e-mails to the public. that said we don't know. and this could be potentially game changing if it does involve her and any whiff of criminal allegations around her or it could just be a bureaucratic issue and the latest in the long run of e-mail scandal. so we just don't know at the moment but, you know i do

wonder if the headlines start to pile up those numbers and polls about her trustworthiness rise and people take hits at considering that. >> alex, thank you as always. we appreciate it. and we want to bring back erin. erin, the prospect of an investigation is now not criminal but just the prospect of an investigation over her e-mails means, of course, the scrutiny is only going to get worse. attacks of republican side only get more intense but more than that the biggest problem i see for hillary on this is that she continues to be an own worst enemy on this story. never wanting to talk about it. when she does she seems to be very uncomfortable. >> abby that is exactly right. watching in march taking questions on this and noticed that as you said she looked very uncomfortable, i think a lot of what this controversy has done has wiped away a lot of the goodwill she built up with voters as secretary of state

because she did do a lot of good work but she's under so much scrutiny right now and you and alex hit the nail on the head. her numbers probably going to continue to go down as this controversy continues. whether there is an investigation or not, if there is not an investigation, it's going to look like she's getting special treatment and there will be an uproar because of that. i think the bottom line is assuming she is the democratic nominee as we all still do going into the general election, it's not going to be a demographic slam dunk for the democrats and she will have to work hard to bring herself back up. >> and the clinton way is to brush off these kinds of negative stories as either unfair biassed journalism in the media or right wing attacks. if this story amounts to something which at this point it could amount to nothing and it also has a danger here it could amount to something, it would be very hard to brush this off as just a right wing attack.

>> well that's exactly right. and i think jeb bush will be vindicated somewhat on this saying at the beginning of this controversy that the security compromises were the real problem. you know, we all seem to know that the clintons view themselves as sort of above everyone else and skirt around some of the rules. but the security compromise is the really big problem and so far in the probe that we have seen there have been a couple of classified e-mails that made it through. so that's going to be the bigger issue. who knows how many more there can be? >> thank you as always for being with us. we appreciate it. >> of course. turning to the news cycle and president obama makes a historic trip to africa. the first sitting president to visit kenya where his father was born and despite the celebrity status there, serious business is also on the agenda. nbc news senior white house correspondent chris janesing with the president. chris, for the president, this

is historic and personal. >> reporter: you're right, abby. tonight was very personal for this president, not only the first time as president of the united states that he's come to his ancestral homeland when air force one touched down there's the usual small ceremony a little girl with a bouquet of flowers at the hotel a large gathering of extended family was there and half sister and he has spent a lot of time with not just here in kenya but germany and in washington. and his step grandmother, 93 years old hoping that he would be able to come to his ancestral hometown where his father is buried and massive security here. 10,000 kenyan police alone. the largest deployment in the history of this country. all of that in preparation for the serious part of the business part of this trip to include a summit that he is cohosting on entrepreneurship. trying to continue the economic progress here in kenya. talking about counter terrorism and a count that's been hit hard

by islamic extremeists and waiting to sere what he has to say about human rights. the last time he was on the african continent he pushed hard for gay rights and got a lot of blowback on that. well his aides say he is not going to back off and, in fact they think this is the perfect opportunity at a time of so much goodwill for this visit for him to make the case that gay rights need to be pursued on a continent where frankly homosexuality is illegal in most countries. busy agenda for the president here in kenya. before he heads to ethiopia at the end of the weekend. abby? >> all right. chris, thanks for that. next a new poll prove that is the confederate flag is just as controversial as ever. that's next. hid smelly objects all over each villa and plugged in febreze. then real people were asked to stay for a long weekend. would they smell anything? the room itself was like [sniff] ahhh. feels like someone has pumped fresh oxygen into the room. on the last day we revealed everything.

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kind of car do you like? new, or many miles on it? get a $1000 volkswagen reward card on select 2015 passat models. or lease a 2015 passat limited edition for $199 a month after a $1000 bonus. confederate battle flag has come down from the south carolina state capitol. new poll shows it is still sharply dividing the country. while the majority of people agree with the flag coming down a slim majority also see it more as a symbol of southern pride. than of racism. when broken down by race you can see that african-americans have a much different view. 150 years later, the scars of the civil war remain and a new book called "our man in charleston" provides fresh perspective, the story of a british spy in charleston changed the course of the war and of american history. noted author and journalist

christopher dickey is in the guest spot. great to have you with us. >> my pleasure. >> i reference the poll results and locking at the racial breakdown, whites majority of them think that the flag is more a symbol of southern pride. blacks overwhelmingly disagree. that divide gets even starker looking in terms of just the south. when's right on this? >> i think the blacks are right on that. i think the problem is that southerners and i'm a southerner. grew up being told this is about pride in the south, kind of almost a national pride. it was a symbol of resistance to occupation after the end of the civil war. occupation by the north of the south. that to some extent is true. but the battle flag the important thing to remember is it was rolled up and put away by robert e. lee and the other soldier that is carried it. it was dragged out again in the '40s in the dixie crat '40 and

'50s and '60s in response to the civil rights campaign. i think we have to be perfectly clear about that. it should be furled up. >> let's talk about what does the civil war mean to the south now. >> it means a lot of different things. i mean one of the thing this is makes the south distinct is precisely that it was the only part of the united states who was ever conquered and occupied. when i was a little boy in atlanta i was learning the words to a song called "good old rebel" and a line says 300,000 yankees stiff in southern dust. we got 300,000 before they conquered us. they died but i wish it was 3 million instead of what we got. >> charming. >> yeah, charming. that was a kind of attitude you grew up with in the south. and that's been changing over the years. because the south has become the sun belt. because the south is not just black and white. there's a lot of brown in the

south now. it's a much more mixed society than it ever was before and much more industrial society than it ever was before. those feelings and resentments resentments against occupation carried other into resentment against the civil rights movement. this idea that outside agitators are going to come tell you what to do that still lingers in the south a lot and that is what you see the reaction to. but we should be very clear. the flag should be furled and put away. >> in the book you take a look at the civil war and this man robert bunch whose a spy during the civil war. how did you pick him? and i was researching something else, somebody else trying to figure something about the eve of the civil war and came across his correspondence in the archives. and then i looked up other letters he'd written and what ever had been written about him. and i saw historians had gotten him completely wrong.

there was an idea he was an a sympathizer. what his private and secret correspondence shows that he hated them all and he was doing everything he could possibly do to undermine the cause of the confederacy. and he was quite successful because he convinced london the british government, that if the south succeeded breaking away from the union it would reopen the slave trade with africa classify a holocaust and the whole world has recognized as such in the early 1800s. but the south needed slaves and they were cheep in africa. so he said this is going to happen and we cannot support these people. we cannot be in bed with the south even though cotton the most important commodity of the time 80% of british cotton came from the slave-owning south. >> i found it interesting that the confederacy wanted help from grit britain. how close that come to happening? and what impact. >> if that happened in the first

year, year and a half of the war that would have been check mate. game over. the south claimed it as the a constitutional right the secede. arguably it did. when it did it assumed that the greatest pour in thewer in britain would back its play because they depended on the cotton. and if that had happened the union didn't have a navy to speak of. the entire federal army in 1861 early 1861 was fewer than 20,000 people. it was a very small army. everything has to be built up very quickly. so if you have the biggest military power in the world come in and back your play and you say, hey we've seceded. what are you going to do about it mr. lincoln? well mr. lincoln couldn't have done much. the first thing they did after summit sumpter buzz was to impose a blockade. the british could have swept this away like that.

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if you followed the news from greece over the month you know europe's a mess. and as americans we can feel a little better about ourselves. our congress may not agree. our government might shut down we may be talking about making donald trump president but hey at least we don't have 27% unemployment like some parts of europe. but what europe is going through

now is something the u.s. strug md with in its history. it is a fight that goes all the way back to the founding after the revolutionary war some states especially northern ones were saddled with big debts. federalist politicians like hamilton pushed for the federal government to assume those debts saying we'd all be stronger. thomas jefferson said each state should stand on its own. the federalists won but it took a hundred years to form to the deal. federal unemployment insurance to protect the jobless and federal social security to support the elderly. those programs and the federal taxes that pay for them mean the government collects revenue from states where people have money and spends it where there are needs. if a housing buststrikes nevada, we all pay for the programs. europe doesn't have this system.

when greece's economy tanked they were supposed to dig out on their own by raising taxes and cutting spending. since that didn't work the rest of europe has had to come one a series of ad hoc bail outs that haven't made anyone happy. if there were no euro there still would have been a crisis but greece would have responded by letting its currency weaken. the drachma would have fallen relative to the deutsche mark. that would have created jobs and helped the greek economy grow again. since they are on the euro they don't have the option. they are stuck with no growth and no jobs. it is the worst of both worlds. the greeks don't have the flexibility of independence nor the mutual support american states get. the euro would work if europe became more like the u.s. if they took the journey that we've taken over our history. that may have been the plan all along actually. the treaty that created the euro

called for ever closer union. and many backers knew it wouldn't work unless it game with more centralized government. the only problem is the u.s. centralization is a unpopular idea in europe. instead of getting divorced they decide to have a child in hopes that will bring them closer together. except the euro is a marriage with 19 members who literally don't speak the same language. maybe that will work out. the euro could be the problem child that forces the europeans into an ever closer marriage. but it didn't like like it will be a happy one any time soon. i guess i broke my rule about being smug. that's it for "the cycle." now with alex wagner starts right. now now. good afternoon. i'm here for alex wagner. we begin with breaking news in lafayette louisiana where a shooting at the local movie theater left three dead and wounded nine. shortly before 7:30 p.m. central

time, 59-year-old john houser pulled out a handgun and began firing. this video aspears to show one of the victims bhg treated outside the cinema. more than a hundred people were inside the theater at the time. two officers were already on the premises and entered the theater at which point the shooter shot himself. police describe houser has a man who was a drifter. he was staying in a local hotel and moments ago the sheriff in his hometown in phenix, alabama said that the gunmen applied for a concealed carry gun permit in 2006 but was denied because of his criminal record. >> the denial of his conceal permit was simply the domestic violence report from '05, about a year prior to him applyin