tv Lockup Raw MSNBC July 25, 2015 2:00am-2:31am PDT
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that's our report. i'm john seigenthaler due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. msnbc takes you behind the walls of america's most notorious prisons into a world of chaos and danger. now, the scenes you've never seen, "lockup: raw." >> there is a pecking order inside the prison. where the inmates treat one another, they don't treat sex offenders very well. basically we're constantly finding them assaulted. we're constantly finding them extorted. we're constantly finding them beat up.
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it's almost a never-ending situation with your sex offenders. >> we've interviewed many inmates who have expressed contempt for sex offenders. few have done so as dramatically as one of the most memorable murderers ever profiled in "lockup." carl abul from the spring creek correctional center in alaska. >> are there are certain people with certain criteria, rapos, child molesters. you can't cure them. there's no cure for them. you kill them. that's how you deal with the problem. there's no more problem, then. >> abul sentenced to 77 years for murdering a co-worker killed again at spring creek. he says he strangled his cell mate when the man began talking about sexually assaulting female staff. >> why don't you try raping another man. why don't you do that? why you got to rape on a woman? why don't you [ bleep ] try to rape me. i know there's someone out there bigger and badder than me. but, i'm going to die.
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i'll die for what i believe in. i've got a lot of experience. i know. >> a lot experience in what? >> doing what i do. >> which is? >> taking out the garbage. >> because they so frequently become the prey of inmates like abuhl, most sex offenders live in protective housing units. that's where we met ray rowe. >> it's a big honor badge for general population to kill somebody, especially a sex offender. >> rowe. >> rowe was sentenced to 230 years for an unlawful act with a minor. >> they don't care whether they're innocent or guilty, somebody said did you know that guy is a chester. >> which is? >> next thing you know, they're hurt. >> what's a chester? >> several years ago in "hustler" magazine they had cartoons every week, the guy called chester the molester. the term has stuck.
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>> even the most secured housing units can't always protect so-called chesters from an inmate set on hurting them. when we met christian knight, he was serving 79 years for murder at california state prison corcoran. >> just seeing christian the first time, we kind of knew he had some kind of story. he was very dramatic-looking with all the tats, very intense. >> it turns out knighten had several incredible stories but one involved his attempt to attack a sex offender at the los angeles county jail. >> got this freaking child molester on the tier. he's actually in the van talking about what he does. you know, i like to keep myself at, hey, i don't lose my temper, keep myself calm, cool and collected. this dude made me snap. so i get in the van and i tell him, you know what i'm going to
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do, i'm beginning to rip this toilet off the wall, bust through this freaking glass, drag it down the tier and i'm going to bust through your glass and i'm going to take your ring i'm going to cut you up, you're a dead man. yeah -- boom boom boom boom boom. then all you hear is the steel bending. i got behind the toilet and pushed the whole toilet aside, yanked it all the way back. long story short, i ripped the whole toilet off, wrapped my hands up in my socks, smashed through the glass. he hasn't seen me yet. you know what i mean? get on the tier. now he's screaming. i'm dragging, finally get out. all the homies on the tier is cheering. this dude is garbage. he is just human garbage. he's like a serial chester. i'm dripping sweat, blood from my hands. i'm dragging the toilet down the tier. i get in front of his house and he sees me for the first time
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and he just starts -- going from that, bragging about being this nasty piece of [ bleep ], he goes just like that, oh, lord in heaven, deliver me from this demon. please, lord. just like that, all of a sudden he's found god. i start smashing in the glass to get to him. it's only halfway in and that's when the whole unit came, guards and all that. they'll tell you, county jail is rough. if a man took too long, knighten, they despised him too. nobody, cop, nobody liking a chester. >> if the average sex offender must contend with inmates like knighten, it can be even worse for those whose crimes made headlines. >> periodically over these 5 1/2 years, you know, i turned the television set on to see my face, you know, on the television set. that's pretty uncomfortable. >> we met edward mckeown at the river bend maximum security institution in tennessee. >> i was ordained a catholic priest of the diocese of
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nashville in january of 1970. i served as an active priest for 19 years. at which time i was in effect mustered out of the priesthood because of my behavior. i am in effect a child molester. >> according to police investigators, mckeown admitted to molesting 22 boys, both during and after his time as a priest. the statute of limitations had run out on all but one. it got him a 25-year sentence. >> and so i certainly had some anxious moments when i walked in, because of the way child molesters are traditionally treated in prison which is not very good, you know. but the truth is, i have not been mistreated at all, either by inmates or staff. >> mckeown is lucky, as far as
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sex offenders go. he's assigned to the prison's one minimum security wing where most of the inmates are more interested in going home than getting in trouble. and it's not the only positive thing mckeown sees in his incarceration. >> i was a catholic priest for a long time. i was then and i am now, you know, a person of faith. i was certainly a person of faith when i was active as a priest who had a very dark secret. and i don't have that secret anymore. i don't have to hide that. i've asked god to take care of me and so far, he said, okay, i'll do that. coming up -- >> what in the world is this? >> i have no idea. >> it's key to survival. but prison food has plenty of critics. >> how's the food? >> terrible. >> everybody complains, you know, everywhere you go somebody is going to complain. >> my question is where's all the beef at?
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one of the interesting things about "lockup" is the subject of prison food. inmates are not shy telling you what they think about it, whether they love it or hate it, generally they do hate it, they're eager to tell you about it. >> how's the food? >> how's the food? >> the food is wonderful. >> you only starve from meal to meal. >> i've gained 15 to 20 pounds since i've been in. i've only been in four months. >> what in the world is this. >> i have no idea. >> five-star restaurant. >> i think i'll stick with the potatoes. >> everybody complains. everywhere you go somebody will complain. >> if you want, you can sit down and join us. you'll know for yourself.
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>> for some, prison food is the best they've had in years. we were at the brushy mountain correctional complex in tennessee. when jason rogers arrived to begin a 24-year sentence for aggravated robbery. he had spent the last three years in county jail. >> i don't know, maybe i'm a little numb in my head but i'll be all right. >> look right here at the camera. >> though rogers had never been to prison before, he told us there was one thing he was looking forward to. >> people told me that you eat better in the penitentiary. you eat better than you do in the county jail. >> i remember when i was getting the shot of jason sitting down and finally eating, it was like a kid at a picnic with all the best food, you know, all the best food imaginable, lake a kid in a candy store. he was just putting it in his mouth, having a great time. >> at the miami-dade county jail, we met a group of friends who couldn't quite agree on the culinary merits of lunch.
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>> this is the only meal that's not great. the only one that's not great, it's bologna every day. a hot meal in the morning, a hot meal at night. >> this is the best part of the day, lunch time. and this is how we eat. >> sandwich. >> nice cold cuts. they're great. we enjoy sometimes. >> tell me what you've got. >> this is turkey salami with little pieces of peppercorn in there that like to jam in your teeth and burn your mouth. they're terrible. >> these are the pies. >> we have cheese. we've got cheese. we've got a pear that will ripen in a couple days. we've got an orange that's ripe now and we've got a raisin cream pie and a chocolate cream pie that people literally fight over. >> this is the best part of the day. >> this is the worst part of the day. >> this is the worst part of the day. >> best or worst, at most of the prisons we visited, inmates have
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only about 15 minutes to eat. >> we feed one tier at a time out of each of the buildings. it takes like -- a good hour and a half at least to get everybody fed. and they get about 15 minutes apiece in the dining room. usually it takes them about five, though, they're really quick at it. they come in, eat, they go. >> how's the food. >> huh? >> how's the food. >> terrible. >> what's so bad about it. >> you've come on a day when they have a piece of chicken. >> what do they usually have? >> garbage. >> what happens if they take longer than 15 minutes? >> they're told to get up, pick it up and leave. they have to leave their tray there and they go about their business. >> they don't have no beef, no steak, no beef, no turkey. what else don't they have around here. >> don't let them kid you. they get good well balanced meals. they feed them a lot better than they ever fed us in the marine
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corps. they eat good. >> i've been here five years. they haven't had a steak, not even a little piece of steak. none. all your ground beef is processed. my question is, where's all the beef at? >> today's a good day, huh? >> i'm a vegetarian. so -- >> why are you asking where the beef is then? >> that's what made me go vegetarian. coming up on "lockup: raw" -- >> my punishment is not going to begin until i walk out those front gates, because this is a world i've gotten used to since age 12. >> how one inmate's survival depends on staying in prison. soccer.
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top chef. soccer. top chef. [whistles] soccer! top chef! [shouting] disco! [singing] say it and see it. the x1 voice remote, only from xfinity. i've been in prison now for three years, falsely convicted. >> i've always maintained my innocence. >> me, i'm innocent, i'm just visiting. >> inmates often tell our producers they were wrongly
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convicted, innocent of their crimes. they long for the day when they're free again. that's what made the case of richard z. hall so baffling. when we met him, ziggy was fighting to stay in prison. >> life out on the street wasn't all that great. so i just look around me and say, hey, this is where it's at. >> we met ziggy at the riverbend maximum security institution in tennessee. the last stop in a long life of incarceration. >> i've been locked up virtually since age 12 in institutions, reform schools and prisons and penal farms. i'm in here this time for prying into an empty drawer in the lobby of a hospital. i received a life sentence under what they called the habitual criminal clause because i had convicted so many times before of theft, shoplifting and just being a pain to the members of
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society in midtown memphis. >> ziggy had grown accustomed to life in river bend's minimum security unit. he has what he calls a cushy prison job, editing the inmate newspaper. >> my punishment is not going to begin until i walk out those front gates, because this is a world i've gotten used to since age 12. but when i get out there, it's an entirely different world. and it's a changed world. and to be honest with you, i'm very, very scared. >> during our shoot ziggy was facing a disciplinary board hearing for altering his urine test. >> let me see the text of the write-up here. >> in his hour of need, ziggy turned to an unlikely ally, fellow inmate and convicted serial rapist mark higgins. higgins prison job is as an inmate adviser, a sort of layman defense lawyer.
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>> therefore, inmate hall has been charged with dsa, drug screen alter. >> i did this for a reason. it was because i'm coming up for parole here in less than three months. and i guess i needed a way to delay that. to delay getting out. i'm not ready to get out. >> lieutenant vance, the d-board chairman has a tendency to have an attitude of don't know, don't care when it comes to your personal problems. all he wants to address is what's in the write-up. >> ziggy faces several potential penalties for attempting to alter his drug screen, including time in the hole. a loss of his prison job and even a judgment that can make his whole plan backfire, a transfer to another prison. >> that's one punishment i really don't look forward to, being transferred somewhere else. >> ziggy's reluctance to leave prison became all the more
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puzzling when we learned some of what he endured during his 30 plus years of incarceration. >> i was not born gay. every relationship i've had has been a forced type -- well, this is what i have to do type thing. but i didn't enjoy it. as a younger prisoner, i would be made fun of quite a lot because the lord gave me a big butt. i decided to turn it around and so i would say to them, hey, i have a nice one, wow. and it became a defense mechanism, because in prison, in this environment especially, if a person makes himself so easy, then those who prey on him don't -- it's too easy. it's no longer a challenge to them, so they leave him alone. >> the day after that interview, we met ziggy and higgins as they prepared to enter the disciplinary hearing.
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>> i'm anxious, i'm uncertain but i have confidence in my inmate adviser to bring out the best defense i could have. >> higgins is basing ziggy's defense on a loophole having to do with his prior participation in a substance abuse program. but ziggy's fate rests in the judgment of the disciplinary board chairman lieutenant tommy vance. >> he's charged with refusing or attempting to alter a drug test. how do you plead the charge, guilt with, not guilty? >> mr. hall pleads not guilty as a part of the policy for the substance abuse class. any drug testing is to be kept confidential. so this issue is out of the area of the disciplinary board. >> results should be kept confidential. is that what you're saying? >> yes, sir. >> that would be the case had mr. hall took the test. he didn't take the test. >> with his first line of
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defense shot down, higgins pivots to explain ziggy's actions. >> ritchie, how many times have you been up for parole in the last 18 years? >> twice. >> what's happened each of those times? >> they've continued me, because of something i've done. >> why would you purposely try to ditch your parole? >> because i'm scared of getting out. >> you met the parole board before? >> yes, sir. >> if you didn't want to make parole, can you say i don't want to go? >> i don't know if you would understand but a convict saying that he's not ready to get out, i'd feel like i would be ostracized. >> is that it? >> yes, sir. >> the lieutenant's decision comes swiftly. >> guilty of the charge of refusal, attempt to alter a drug screen. recommend five days of
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segregation, assess a fee of $25. $4 fine. recommended job drop. you want to appeal this? >> yes, sir. >> yes, sir, i don't think the $25 is appropriate. >> i can suspend that. i will suspend the $25. >> okay. >> and ritchie would like a little time to get his affairs in order before he has to go away for five days. >> no. everything i heard and saw, he attempted to alter the results of a drug test. >> i was given five days in solitary confinement and he recommended a job drop. which means i'll probably go to pots and pans in the kitchen. >> but ziggy's first stop is the segregation unit better known as the hole where he will be locked up 23 hours a day. though for ziggy it's not all that bad. >> i won't be granted parole in april. that's mission accomplished. so i have to accept the
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consequences of what he said. >> please direct all my mail over to me. >> what mail? >> oh, yeah, true. >> all i can say if you don't want to meet the parole board, come up with some other way than tampering with your drug screen. >> 42 to mobile 3, be advised, moving one inmate from unit 6 to unit 3 through the access road. >> having reflected on what happened to ritchie hall, i feel kind of bad about that. i don't think that i did the best job that i could do. i think they treated him unfairly. to be honest about it. they don't want to address the problem that he still has issues with trying to adjust to freedom.
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